Project M Social Thread

[Vkrm]

There is no way the controller input lag is a real thing. I can't find any mention of in any brawl threads. Also how could a problem that big make into the final product without somebody noticing?

 

[Revven]

There is no way the controller input lag is a real thing.

It is.

10chars

 

[leafbarrett]

There is no way the controller input lag is a real thing. I can't find any mention of in any brawl threads. Also how could a problem that big make into the final product without somebody noticing?

They provided video footage of it, how can you still say it's not real?

 

[Vkrm]

It just seems so ridiculous. I know the PMBR aren't lying, I just find it hard to believe such a big flaw went wasnt noticed by competitive brawl players first.

 

[Yeroc]

I could stream 2 simultaneous setups with 4 (2x2) synched inputs showing a tv with the fix and another with the controller-specific version so you can see the differences in real-time, if you like.

 

[Revven]

It just seems so ridiculous.

At this point, I don't think it's as "unbelievable" given Brawl's track record of already numerous coding fallacies.

 

[shanus]

It just seems so ridiculous.

Thats bc its an extremely hard thing to test for and is not visible duribg "Frame Advance" codes. Its real, and makes the game feel so much better once fixed

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's worth noting that a great deal of competitive Brawl revolves around effective use of buffer frames. That might have a lot to do with it.

 

[Vkrm]

Wow. Just wow. Was it intentional? Another one sakurai's jokes?


Really hype for 2.5. I really can't wait to see how the brawl newcomers feel with this change.

 

[Yeroc]

Add to that the fact that we have extremely specific low-level functionalities that we're trying very hard to replicate, so our investigations into Brawl's deepest workings far surpass even the most diligent competitive Brawl players.

 

[iLink]

Was the delay input intentionally coded or just the side effect of negligence/sloppy coding?

 

[KingBlaze777]

I'm gonna go with both.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I refuse to believe that they intentionally added a code to cause input lag. There's zero chance that it was done on purpose, and anyone who thinks they did is a total moron. It's gotta be just an unforseen side effect, not even Sakurai would do that on purpose.

also, if there was just some specific code in the game causing it, not only would the PMBR certainly have caught it and fixed it before now, but even casual Brawl hackers would have caught it a long long time ago

 

[KingBlaze777]

Well Sakurai DID want to make Brawl a great deal less competitive than Melee so it could go both ways.

@PrivateJokerBrown
The reason that it was not identified earlier was because of how deep it was hidden. Explained by Shanus a few posts back. You should read Magus' write-up at smashmods

 

[Vkrm]

He is the guy who thought of random tripping. Still I doubt it's intentional. The impact it has seems too subtle. It doesn't really do anything except make the game more clunky.

 

[standardtoaster]

It was just sloppily coded afaik.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Well Sakurai DID want to make Brawl a great deal less competitive than Melee so it could go both ways.

laggy controls have exactly zero to do with comeptitve play. It's just bad game design, and they would not have done it on purpose. End of story.

 

[Revven]

It's nothing intentional as far as anyone is aware. It's masked in Brawl by the huge amount of frames of buffer you have, though, so that would be a big reason why no Brawl top level player would notice it. I mean... just imagine using a Wii Remote + this input lag + playing on a HDTV in Brawl. Or P:M Demo 2.1 for that matter. >_>

 

[Arcansi]

laggy controls have exactly zero to do with comeptitve play. It's just bad game design, and they would not have done it on purpose. End of story.

Do you know sakurai personally, or do you just have proof of what you are saying?

 

[KingBlaze777]

@PrivateJokerBrown
We are talking about BRAWL (You know, that cluster**** of codes) Laggy controls and buffered inputs are similar to some degree and thus it could've been implemented willingly and put the blame on the buffer.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

whether they knew about it or not is irrelevant. The buffer may have even been added in order to compensate for the known problem, but people saying "I wonder if Sakurai added input lag just to **** with us" are idiots.

It was obviously the product of lazy coding. The game was under a deadline, and got rushed in a lot of areas. This is not rocket sciene.

 

[KingBlaze777]

Dude, would you please refrain from using ad populums? One doesn't just go around saying "All those who say God made Hitler just to **** with us are idiots". Just open your eyes to the possibility that it could've been implemented just to troll players and agree to disagree with those that don't agree with you. It's just opinion vs opinion. Unless Sakurai confirms either one of the possibilities, this argument is going nowhere. Give it a rest and go to bed.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Did someone say opinion?

 

[Vkrm]

Either way sakurai ****ed up. Or team sora.

 

[KingBlaze777]

opinion vs opinion.

It's a battle between lag-less arbitrary inputs

 

[#HBC | Joker]

did you just quote yourself, and then call yourself "arbitrary"?

 

[ELI-mination]

Did someone say.... "go to bed" ?

And they didn't include "leelue" after it

meme fail

 

[GurrenLogann]

Hey i haven't been to these boards in a while and I haven't followed Project M since before the second path came out. Can someone give me a quick rundown on the changes that have been made since then and what their significance is? (ie what is controller input lag?)

 

[Kink-Link5]

Okay guys, because you asked so nicely, I'll let you all have my super cool brstms; after all it is Christmas so you deserve something nice, so you can be cool like me and my brstms.

http://www.mediafire.com/?t67d954z9u7bhqd

[collapse=Songs Replaced in alphabetical order]

A01 - Ground Theme (Super Mario Bros.)				-> 	Metal Mario (Super Smash Bros.)
A02 - Underground Theme (Super Mario Bros.)			->	Metal Batle (Melee)
A03 - Underwater Theme (Super Mario Bros.)			->	King of Koopas (Paper Mario)
A04 - Underground Theme (Super Mario Land)			-> 	Ghost Gulping (Paper Mario)
A05 - Airship Theme (Super Mario Bros. 3)			->	Drawcia Sorceress (Kirby Canvus Curse)
A06 - Castle / Boss Fortress (Super Mario World / SMB3)		->	Carmilla's Theme: Bloody Tears (Castlevania Judgement)
A07 - Title / Ending (Super Mario World)			->	Delfino Pier (Mario Kart Wii)
A08 - Main Theme (New Super Mario Bros.)			->	Search for the Girl (Pokemon Heroes)
A09 - Luigi's Mansion Theme					->	Alucard's Theme: Dracula's Castle (Castlevania Judgement)
A10 - Gritzy Desert						->	Koopa's Theme (Super Mario 64)
A16 - Ground Theme 2 (Super Mario Bros.)			-> 	Koopa's Road (Super Mario 64)
A17 - Mario Bros. 						-> 	Fountain of Dreams (Melee)
B01 - Jungle Level Ver.2					->	Crocodile Cacophony (Donkey Kong Country 2)
B02 - The Map Page / Bonus Level				-> 	Monkey Smash (Donkey Kong 64)
B04 - Donkey Kong						->	Forest Interlude (Donkey Kong Country 2)
B09 - 25m BGM							->	Kongo Jungle (Super Smash Bros.)
B10 - DK Jungle 1 Theme (Barrel Blast)				->	Furious Fire (Donkey Kong Country Returns)
C18 - The Hidden Village					->	Hyrule Castle (Super Smash Bros.)
D01 - Main Theme (Metroid)					->	Lower Norfair 
E03 - Yoshi's Island						-> 	Welcome to Yoshi's Village!  (Paper Mario)
E06 - Wildlands							->	Yodeling in Meadow Hill  (Tekken 6)
F01 - The Legendary Air Ride Machine				-> 	Machine Passage
F03 - Boss Theme Medley						-> 	The Strongest Knight in the Galaxy
F05 - Gourmet Race						-> 	Halberd (Kirby's Epic Yarn)
F06 - Meta Knight's Revenge					-> 	Revenge of Meta Knight Ending
F07 - Vs. Marx							->	Studying the Factory
F08 - 02 Battle							->	02 Battle (Kirby 64)
F09 - Forest / Nature Area					->	Forest Stage (Kirby Air Ride)
F12 - Squeak Squad Theme					->	Dyna Blade/Castle LoLoLo
H02 - Pokemon Center						-> 	Vs. World Champion! (Pokemon Black and White)
H03 - Road to Viridian City (From Pallet Town / Pewter City)	-> 	Cipher Admin Battle (Pokemon Colloseum)
H04 - Pokemon Gym / Evolution					->	Kanto Gym Battle (Pokemon HeartGold and SoulSilver)
H05 - Wild Pokemon Battle! (Ruby / Sapphire)			-> 	Vs. Ho-Oh!
H06 - Victory Road						->	Saffron City (Super Smash Bros.)
H07 - Wild Pokemon Battle! (Diamond / Pearl)			-> 	Ain't that Funny? (MadWorld)
H08 - Dialga / Palkia Battle at Spear Pillar!			-> 	Miror B's Retro Groove
H09 - Team Galactic Battle!					-> 	Vs. Miror B (Pokemon XD)
K07 - Porky's Theme						->	Fourside (Melee)
L03 - Environmental Noises					-> 	Green Forest (Sonic Adventure 2)
L06 - Main Theme (Pikmin)					->	Crazy Chili Dog (Street Fighter III: Third Strike)
L08 - Ai no Uta (French Version)				->	Beats in My Head (Street Fighter III: Third Strike)
M03 - Mona Pizza's Song (JP)					-> 	Red Carpet Extend-O-Matic (World of Goo)
M04 - Mona Pizza's Song						->	Zip (Bomberman Hero)
M05 - Mike's Song (JP)						-> 	Quiet in the Living Room (Elebits)
M06 - Mike's Song						->	Theme of Q (Street Fighter III: Third Strike)
M08 - Ashley's Song						->	Redial (Bomberman Hero)
N01 - Title (Animal Crossing)					-> 	Title (Animal Crossing Population: Growing!)
N03 - 2:00 a.m.							-> 	2:00 A.M. (Animal Crossing Population: Growing!)
N05 - The Roost							->	You Blow My Mind (Street Fighter III: Third Strike)
N06 - Town Hall and Tom Nook's Store				-> 	5:00 P.M. (Animal Crossing Population: Growing!)
P04 - Kid Icarus Original Medley				-> 	Sky Sands
Q01 - Famicom Medley						->	Top Ride: Light
Q02 - Gyromite							-> 	Nebula Belt
Q10 - Tetris: Type A						->	Simon's Theme: Vampire Killer (Castlevania Judement)
Q11 - Tetris: Type B						->	Crazy (MadWorld)
Q13 - Power-Up Music						->	Underwater Ruins (Kirby 64)
Q14 - Douchuumen (Nazo no Murasamejo)				->	Magolor Soul (Kirby's Return to Dreamland)
R03 - Hanenbow Ambience        					->      Ballad of the Goddess (Skyward Sword)
R08 - Title (Big Brain Academy)					->	White Jungle (Sonic Adventure 2)
R09 - Golden Forest (1080° Snowboarding)			->	No Mercy (Guilty Gear XX)
R10 - Mii Channel						-> 	Move (MadWorld)
R11 - Wii Shop Channel						->	Ride!! (MadWorld)
U06 - Sonic Boom						->	Planet Wisp Act 3
U10 - Sonic Heroes						-> 	Aquarium Park Act 3
U11 - Right There, Ride On					->	City Escape (Classic)
U13 - Seven Rings In Hand					->	Rooftop Run (Classic)
W06 - Fountain of Dreams (Melee)				->	Grassland 1 (Kirby's Dreamland 3)
W07 - Green Greens (Melee) 					-> 	Dream Land N64 (Melee)
W15 - Super Mario Bros. 3 (Melee)				-> 	Yoshi's Story (Melee)
W30 - Menu (Melee)						-> 	Knock You Out (SFIII:3S Online Edition)
X01 - Super Smash Bros. Brawl Main Theme			->	The Next Door (Indestructable) (Street Fighter IV)
X02 - Menu 1							->	Libera Me from Hell (Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann)
X04 - Battlefield						->	Duel Zone (Super Smash Bros.)
X05 - Final Destination						->	Final Destination (Super Smash Bros.)
X08 - Results Display Screen					->	Battle Results (Super Smash Bros.)
X25 - Battlefield Ver. 2					-> 	Multi-Man Melee 2
X26 - Target Smash!!						-> 	Break the Targets! (Melee)
Z11 - Mother Series Victory					->	Mother Victory (Melee)
Z18 - Mr. Game & Watch	Victory					->	Game & Watch Victory (Melee)

[/collapse]

 

[foshio]

Hey i haven't been to these boards in a while and I haven't followed Project M since before the second path came out. Can someone give me a quick rundown on the changes that have been made since then and what their significance is? (ie what is controller input lag?)

4 new characters (ZSS, Ivy, Squirtle, Diddy). Crew battle mode. New efficient stage striking. Multiple character alterations. New team colors, Japanese tags. Buffer changed from 10 frames to 3. Knock back staking fixed. Input lag on controllers fixed. As well as abunch of other tweeks.

 

[NeoZ]

Dude, would you please refrain from using ad populums? One doesn't just go around saying "All those who say God made Hitler just to **** with us are idiots". Just open your eyes to the possibility that it could've been implemented just to troll players and agree to disagree with those that don't agree with you. It's just opinion vs opinion. Unless Sakurai confirms either one of the possibilities, this argument is going nowhere. Give it a rest and go to bed.

That's not an ad populum, an ad populum is when you argue something is true because most/a lot of people believe it.

 

[Kink-Link5]

This looks like a job for noirscythe!

 

[GurrenLogann]

4 new characters (ZSS, Ivy, Squirtle, Diddy). Crew battle mode. New efficient stage striking. Multiple character alterations. New team colors, Japanese tags. Buffer changed from 10 frames to 3. Knock back staking fixed. Input lag on controllers fixed. As well as abunch of other tweeks.

thanks! sounds very cool. one more question: what do you mean when you say multiple character alterations? More colors?

 

[KingBlaze777]

did you just quote yourself, and then call yourself "arbitrary"?

Yes. Problem?

 

[Kink-Link5]

thanks! sounds very cool. one more question: what do you mean when you say multiple character alterations? More colors?

Rebalancing and redesigning character traits.

Zard's glide for example is a much more versatile mobility option that allows him to act out freely after canceling it.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

So when was this little gem discovered anyway? Lol you guys continue to impress me even though I live barely an hour away from a pmbr member.

Also how was everyone's chrimbus, I hope you got all you wanted.

 

[Deft]

daaaamn Kink. Those brstm's are legit. thanks

 

[Kink-Link5]

I need to get more but that's all that will fit on my SD card at the moment. The 9k+1 KB songs in particular put a tax on file space.

 

[leafbarrett]

go to bed KingBlaze

I need to get more but that's all that will fit on my SD card at the moment. The 9k+1 KB songs in particular put a tax on file space.

Tip: Extract the songs to .wav, then lower the frequency to 32000 in Audacity. Getting them to loop in Brawlbox again afterwards either takes a bit of math or a little work. You can cut up to 1/3 the filesize off of the song with literally no impact on the quality.

 

[Kink-Link5]

32000 Hz seems to create clipping in the brstms from what I've seen. Though some of the songs weren't of my own devising so the creators probably did something silly in encoding or whatever. Some of them are just generally long though; no amount of compressing will solve that.

Loop points are easy enough with basic understanding of sample points and arithmetic.