bubbaking
Smash Hero
So it's like a parry except on an attack, kinda like what Raphael and Xianghua had in SC II.
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Project M Social Thread
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#HBC | Joker
Space Marine
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That would actually be cool if he could insta-shield out of egg roll. Anything that made stopping it more reliable would make it more usable.
Except's Yoshi OoS options are crap >_<
So egg rolling towards the opponent and shielding to cancel it into shield would do nothing for him. Hes probably better off spamming eggs from a far then getting in close in a shield.
So egg rolling towards the opponent and shielding to cancel it into shield would do nothing for him. Hes probably better off spamming eggs from a far then getting in close in a shield.
leafbarrett
Smash Lord
Better idea. Instant Egg Roll OoS. No windup time, no little hop beforehand, just go straight into the roll. I mean, it makes sense, right? He's already in the egg. And it'll give him a (apparently) much-needed OoS option.
Raphael and Xianghua are good examples. Another is Bang Shishigami from BB, who has GP on all of his drive attacks.
From what I gather about you you didn't play melee much competetivly right?
Well just to let you know if you didn't. The reason yoshi has bad OoS options is he is the ONLY character who cannot jump out of his shield. This means Yoshi CANNOT usmash OoS, Up-B Oos, Wavedash OoS, or SHFFL a aerial OoS.
The only things yoshi can do OoS is roll, which his rolls are awfully slow in melee. Grab, Yoshi's grab range is smaller then Marths IIRC in melee and twice as slow, spot dodge, and drop his shield, which does nothing positional wise for him.
Also Raphael and Xianghua are annoying as **** to fight against because of their parry systems.
drsusredfish
Smash Ace
am i seeing things or does ZSS' side b do a different animation when it connects?
(My wifi has been crap latley and even the stream replays lag <_<)
(My wifi has been crap latley and even the stream replays lag <_<)
leafbarrett
Smash Lord
I didn't play Melee competitively at ALL. I didn't even realize there was such a large competitive Melee scene until after Brawl was released.
Well, Egg Roll OoS would give him a good GTFO option, if nothing else; you just said that his roll dodge was slow, so perhaps it'd be a good getaway option if you could Egg Roll in either direction, regardless of where you're facing.
Is Egg Roll strong enough to clank many things? ...Does it even clank things at all? It'd be a nice way to interrupt the opponent's momentum and shield pressure, reset both characters to a standing pose (I think, unless Egg Roll doesn't work like that). I'm woefully uninformed here, so if I'm making an incorrect assumption, feel free to edumacate me.
Also, I support the "move guard point" idea. Combine that with Yoshi's parrying ability and that could be one of his, um... gimmicks, for lack of a better term (skills?). Lucario has OHC and Aura Charges, Bowser has Super Armor, Yoshi'd have parry/guard point shenanigans.
If the replay is lagging then it's not on your end, watching the archives is like watching a youtube video, you load part of it and watch it, try letting it buffer some more and see if it still lags.
Or maybe your PC can't handle the video, but you'd probably know if that was the case.
The problem I see with that though is that the PMBR just reduced all of Sonic spin dash stuff because it was overcentralizing to his character, I could see the same happening with Yoshi if he could Egg roll Shield(which cant be poked) then egg roll OoS again. Giving him a ridiculous bait and punish game and mobility.
As far as I know Egg roll clanks like any other move. Meaning if it does a certain percent more then another move it will beat it. (I dont remember what the threshold is something like 8%, some PMBR member would know) So Yoshis eggroll does a certain percent, again I dont remember but lets say it does 12%, that means it would beat any move that did 4% or less, so jabs, multihit moves, some projectiles etc. If it doesn't beat that thresehold then it will simply clank.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Except that one could get parries and spot dodges out of Egg Roll. That would be pretty useful and interesting, IMO. As it is now, pretty much everything beats it out and you would never want to use it.
Well to be fair, we were just talking about the possibility of being able to perform specials (other than upB) OoS. With that ability in mind, an Egg Roll OoS is actually a very plausible idea. Don't know if it's possible to code, though...
leafbarrett
Smash Lord
Er, I meant being able to Egg Roll OoS but not shield out of Egg Roll.
You're not seeing things. ZSS's Plasma Whip has more cooldown on hit than on whiff (or block, iirc, but that one I'm not sure of).
Oh, well that would be a decent, Get me the hell outta here, option then.
drsusredfish
Smash Ace
the threshhold is 7%
Shadic
Alakadoof?
leafbarrett
Smash Lord
...I had a thought. Yoshi can't JC his shield, but what about his parry? Can he JC that?
KingBlaze777
Smash Apprentice
@Leaf
His parry involves his DJ IIRC. Maybe someone else could explain it in greater detail
His parry involves his DJ IIRC. Maybe someone else could explain it in greater detail
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
You're thinking of his DJC counter.
KingBlaze777
Smash Apprentice
@Kink
Oh right... My bad. I never really took the time to study Yoshi.
Oh right... My bad. I never really took the time to study Yoshi.
KingBlaze777
Smash Apprentice
Samus has been confirmed to not be in 2.5
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I really fail to see how Egg Roll OoS > shield > rinse and repeat is a "ridiculous bait and punish game". I mean, it would look silly, but Egg Roll is pretty weak and easily out-prioritized. Sonic's spindash was "overcentralizing" (I kinda disagree with this, but whatever) because it could be done in most situations and led into everything. Egg Roll won't lead into anything, even if it can be shielded out of, unless Yoshi gains the ability to jump or perform an attack out of either the Egg Roll or the shield. It's a perfectly reasonable idea that isn't really OP (IMO).
Well yeah, but another factor you have to consider is the move's hitbox size and position which also plays into a move's 'priority'. IIRC, Yoshi's Egg Roll in Melee had horrible priority, not because of how strong it was, but because it's hitbox was really bad.
Edit: Yep, just checked. That move was prettttty bad.
Then again, I have no idea how good the move is in vBrawl. If it was improved at all, then I would imagine that the PMBR could just port that version over and call it a done deal.Egg Roll
There's another smaller hitbox inside the egg. This move sucks.
No. The reason you are seeing Yoshi nair so quickly after a parry is that the parry is simply really fast. It's only the initial shielding animation. The actual shield isn't held up at all, so as soon as Yoshi puts it up, it's down and he's ready to counter-attack. Between Yoshi's parry, CC, and DJ armor, Yoshi is pretty decent at 'absorbing' hits and counterattacking handily.
#HBC | Joker
Space Marine
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But Yoshi isn't Bowser. He can't afford to take damage all the time abusing DJarmor and CC. It's useful, don't get me wrong, but Yoshi is always been a butt character for a reason. He can't kill quickly, and he doesn't live forever (tho he can live pretty long).
bubbaking
Smash Hero
You and I both want that, man, you and I both.....
Stunts
Smash Journeyman
I wonder if there is a video planned for Zamus? I would imagine them making one later on to suspend the hint of the final char.
#HBC | Joker
Space Marine
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If the next char IS Yoshi, then us talking about cool stuff they could do for him is actually pretty pointless, cuz they made him already 
They wouldn't announce that another char was added for a dec 28 release if they weren't basically done with him.
They wouldn't announce that another char was added for a dec 28 release if they weren't basically done with him.
JediKnightTemplar
Smash Lord
If your computer can run Windows XP it can run BBox and PSA just fine. The fact you can download and have both up and running within minutes should tell you all you need to know.Well I'd assume so to do complicated animation things with it (I've admittedly never tried). Don't overestimate my computer. It's 7 years old (oh wait, it's almost 8 now) and still has a Pentium D processor and only 2 GB of RAM.
Edit: I've seen impoverished people with a better computer than mine.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
So Samus should be the next character announced... right?
Doesn't Windows XP use less memory than Vista? IIRC, Vista actually slows coms down greatly.
This is incorrect. Yoshi is power star invincible during his shield raising animation. This same animation is JCable up to the point where the egg shield is raised. This is how his parry works, and is why his parry is so strong.
If you don't believe me, go into training mode with Yoshi and try jumping just as you press the shield button. If you've done it right, you'll hear the "boop" of a shield going up, but Yoshi will jump.
I haven't looked at the exact frame data on plasma whip in a while, but the two animations have almost the exact same number of cooldown frames for both hit and block/whiff.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Oh, I stand corrected. That makes the parry even better.
Wobbly Headed Bob
Smash Journeyman
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How is it more simple than most other edgeguarding tricks? Is suddenly ledge release into dair into the stage somehow more complicated? Perhaps jumping out the ledge into fair is more complicated?
It's a disjointed hitbox trap spike that can be set up that works at only specific distances. It's much more situational than just "drop off the ledge". Dropping off the ledge with is probably its least likely application. It takes thrice as much time to come out as Bowser's or Yoshi's down B. On top of it being significantly risky, it requires prediction and spacing.
The rewards it was given in Brawl weren't too big either. Its effect was in its integrated cumulative use. It seems like it's even more situational in PM than it was in Brawl too given the speed and gravity of the game.
I messed with the QD a little bit, but didn't have good setups with it. I think it's an interesting mechanic, but doesn't quite suffice for the potential multidimensionality I'd prefer in the character.
I also believe there is sufficient argument to consider the inclusion of the Aether Up B trick, as it would favor Ike's gameplay in a way that hurts neither his style nor the general metagame. It seems overshadow the reasoning that argument that Ike's Up B should stop grabbing the ledge out of normalcy.
leelue
Smash Lord
Ike doesn't need more "tricks"
He's a strange enough character as is
He's a strange enough character as is
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Not saying I support noirscythe's idea of making it just grab like in Brawl, but wouldn't it be entirely possible to have grounded up-B be able to grab backwards on the way down without letting the aerial version do it?
The only changes I think Ike could use are 1.) A slower to fully charge, less instant movement, but faster to start and act out of side B. Less full-stage control, more instant mobility to look for baits and punishes, and the same "Fully charged look the **** out"-ness. Just as threatening and scary, without the half-second nearly instant full-stage movement. And B I mean 2.) have nair hit sooner, or, if speeding the move up that much makes the swing look unnatural, let him kick out first before swinging his sword around.
I'd be fine with making his sword swings genuinely just as bad as Roy's if he just had the mobility and threat of a fast nair to shove opponents off.
I'd be fine with it even if his sword wasn't being nerftweaked actually.
The only changes I think Ike could use are 1.) A slower to fully charge, less instant movement, but faster to start and act out of side B. Less full-stage control, more instant mobility to look for baits and punishes, and the same "Fully charged look the **** out"-ness. Just as threatening and scary, without the half-second nearly instant full-stage movement. And B I mean 2.) have nair hit sooner, or, if speeding the move up that much makes the swing look unnatural, let him kick out first before swinging his sword around.
I'd be fine with making his sword swings genuinely just as bad as Roy's if he just had the mobility and threat of a fast nair to shove opponents off.
I'd be fine with it even if his sword wasn't being nerftweaked actually.
leelue
Smash Lord
I wish Lucas' grounded freeze went up at an angle. I feel bad for grounded projectiles in general.
Zamus solves my issue though.
Man imagine if more nonspacies had that treatment on their projectiles? That'd be so satisfying to me (tradeoff lag for ability to space).
Zamus solves my issue though.
Man imagine if more nonspacies had that treatment on their projectiles? That'd be so satisfying to me (tradeoff lag for ability to space).
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