Edit: This post got too long.....
Spoilering now...
[COLLAPSE="Zelda can't be an aggro char."]I should also mention that she can't be a agro character either becuase she completely lacks good pop-up moves. She doesn't have a nice sheik ftilt, or fox/falco utilt/falco shine/link utilt/ness DJC uair, Falcon grounded dair/marth utilt/shffl fair etc.
Her best pop move is usmash......lolwut your best combo move is a usmash. Beyond grabs(which again is sub-par, not the throws they are good, the grab itself is subpar), her other pop up move is ftilt(so laggy), dash attack(so easily punished on block going back to her abysmal approach options), and grounded sweet spotted dair(good luck hitting this). Everything else just doesn't work, uair lol whos going to try SHFFL uair to start a combo, fair/bair lol, neutral air lol its a good combo finisher it doesnt put your opponent in a combo position, utilt haha, dtilt u kiddin, dsmash ummm no, jab........, fsmash nah, farore's wind lol, I KNOW SHEIK.[/COLLAPSE]
I kinda feel like you're underestimating Zelda's moves. Yes, her usmash sets up auto-combos on practically everybody, but her other moves are quite useful as well. Her fthrow sucks you toward her and places you right above or behind her for combos; it's not that slow either. Her dtilt is uber fast and it stuns you in place for follow-ups. Her dsmash is also super fast and it sets up TCs, especially on FFers, not to mention her kicking leg is fully invincible for the entirety of the move so it can't trade. Spaced kicks are generally safe, even on shield, and nair is pretty good for starting and extending combos, especially if the opponent is on a plat. Honestly, Zelda does have problems when it comes to approaching, but I think that mostly comes from her mobility. Her moves are pretty good and they're fairly safe, too.
Okay, so I've learned that going for an aerial FP is bad unless you're going to catch them above the level of the edge or nearby the edge. Especially if you have terrible aim with the move.
Well, you just have to acquire a
feel for the move (I've said this so many times about Lucario's stuff that it's starting to sound rehearsed
). It might be easier to try to hit-confirm into it first with an aerial or something.
I have a question. Is it supposed to be so hard to sweetspot with ES? Half the time, it registers as me colliding with the stage, which is WORSE than it used to be, because I curve off and usually away from the stage, putting me in special fall while facing away from the edge.
[COLLAPSE="Ledgesnapping Tips"]Melee 101: The easiest way to sweetspot the ledge with a guided recovery move (ES, Spacees' upB, glides, etc.) is to go downwards with it and then let go of down (or press up) right when/before you hit the ledge. This is easily applied to Lucario's ES because of how it curves. I've experienced situations similar to what you have encountered Leaf. I'm recovering at more-or-less of a horizontal angle from the ledge and upB sideways at it, and I kinda 'bounce' off the ledge. In my case, the ledge curves me upwards and I end up not catching the ledge but instead falling through the air and landing onstage with full upB landing lag. This usually happens when I attempt to upB to the ledge slightly too high, not low enough to run into and grab the ledge but not high enough to clear the ledge completely.
The easiest way to correct this with Lucario is to curve downwards as you approach the ledge. This causes him to snap to the ledge instead of bouncing off of it or passing under it. This tactic can actually be applied to nearly any recovery angle, especially if there are walls. If you're recovering vertically
up a wall, you can grind against it near the end and you'll pretty much always sweetspot it.[/COLLAPSE]
Fun fact: Lucario can actually upB downwards from
below the ledge and, as long as you make sure to let go of down the moment he starts moving, he'll still grab the ledge.
It really helps with ledge planking.
Edit: Really funny incident that happened involving Lucario's ledge plank.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUYacC3OCVE#t=2m47s
It just sprang to mind while I was talking about Lucario and ledges. XD
Also, can you walljump out of ES in 2.5? And nobody ever answered my question of why they removed Lucario's wallcling. :c (Forgive me if I seem like I'm *****ing, I'm not; I've already said how inadequate my competitive knowledge is, so I genuinely can't figure out why they did that.)
I can't speak for 2.5, but I know that he can definitely do it in 2.1, and it would be a shame if they were to remove that.
Lucario's wallcling still exists both in and out of ES in 2.1.
Edit: By "out of ES", I mean Lucario can just jump against a wall and cling to it like he could in vBrawl. He doesn't have to ES into it.
Is usmash-fair-FP a viable combo?
If you put a JC in between the usmash and the fair, then I can definitely see that combo working. Something like usmash and then jump cancel the usmash into a fair > FP. Yep, that should work, but probably not at all %'s.
In 2.1 when you Extreme Speed toward the ledge, if it's a stage with a wall, holding straight into the wall will cause you to go downward (stupid in my opinion). However, after you go downward along the stage's wall if you keep holding toward the wall Lucario will go into his wall-cling, and from this you can wall-jump and up-B again, or you can just up-B out of it.
You can even wall-cling one more time out of that second upB. After that, though, you only get a wall jump, no third upB. Still, the recovery mixup potential is crazy. Two upBs, two wall clings, and two wall jumps...
Also this:
Wall-Cling isn't supposed to last long and it's definitely no glitch, otherwise it would have been removed from 2.0 to 2.1. It's not meant for sitting there for long it's just meant to aid recovery.
And mixups.
