Project M Social Thread

[DrinkingFood]

Or just play Ike
anybody can play Ike

 

[leafbarrett]

I would say to play as a heavily zoning char, one who doesn't really have to react quickly to the opponent but instead shifts his positioning to adjust to the opponent's advances (or retreats). Chars like Link, TL, defensive ROB, campy Pit. Of course, I could be totally BSing right now. I've never considered what I should do if I literally can't react to a lot of common things. Who do you play with? You should play with someone a bit better than you (but not too much) for a long period of time. You start to pick up on things after a while.

Well, I tried TL and sucked royally with him (I had better luck with normal Link), and I... just can't bring myself to play a campy style. I always feel like I'm being cheap and annoying (mainly because that's what my experience fighting campers has shown me).

I mean, you'd still have an ample amount of fast reaction time involved, you can't really have serious Smash without it, but it would be the closest thing to slower reactions that I could think of.

See, this is the crushing part. Gaming is my life. I learn to be good at games very quickly... but I can never get great at them. I always hit this brick wall where my hands won't work the way I want them to, and my brain won't properly register things fast enough.
How do I explain it... It's like I have 2 separate reaction times. One is actually quite good: my brain has realized that something has happened. The problem is that it has no idea what, nor how to react to this unknown thing, so I end up reacting almost at random. My proper reaction time, when I can actually process what's happened, is a lot slower. So I can react to things fairly quickly, but I'm always reacting blindly when I do.
On top of that, my brain literally works more slowly than normal people's brains do, and my motor control doesn't work right either. I have the "act" part right, but not the "what act", so usually my body goes on pure muscle memory autopilot. Easy example: When I try to do a jab-jab-(x move) at full speed, my brain switches to "jab-jab-jab" because it's familiar and simple, and doesn't require me to process what happened. I actually have to pause for a sec to make my muscles do what I'm telling them to, so I usually get "jab-jab-(pause)-(x move)", or I just screw it up entirely, like "jab-jab-ASC" or "jab-jab-DA".

My reflexes aren't bad (for years I thought they were slow, but i'm starting to learn im significantly more technical than I thought I was.) but I use Bowser and he seems like he'd be pretty easy to play with slow reflexes. He isn't very technically demanding and he gets huge rewards off reading shields, dodges, commitments etc

Well, with me, it's an actual medical reason (apparently, even Asperger's ****s with that, despite being a high-functioning autism).
I had some success as Bowser, but... It's just, I mained vBrawl Lucario, and I spent... god, what was it, 2, 3 years? working on a Lucario moveset and animations and a voice pack (which I have recently abandoned because P:M Lucario just outclasses it by so much ). I want to keep maining Lucario.

Or just play Ike
anybody can play Ike

no, be quiet. I refuse to abuse something cheap to win, no matter how bad my reflexes and motor skills are.

 

[Life]

no, be quiet. I refuse to abuse something cheap to win, no matter how bad my reflexes and motor skills are.

Sirlin alarm! WOOPWOOPWOOPWOOPWOOPWOOPWOOPWOOPWOOPWOOPWOOPWOOP

In all seriousness, it sounds like your best bet is to do a bunch of solo practice. Work on doing AAB or whatever is giving you problems, work your way up to getting them faster. Then practice doing it with a low-level CPU so you have to time it a little. Then gradually crank the CPU difficulty. Then learn to switch off between AAB and AAA.

Most things are easier if you do them gradually. The idea is that if you always do AAA because of muscle memory, you can develop AAB as muscle memory.

Supposedly M2K has a meh reaction time, maybe ask him?

 

[Jolteon]

People focus too much on their reaction time.

I'm sure your reaction time is fine for smash, just practice on picking up things to react to (see: m2k). Adopting a defeatist mindset and changing characters is not going to help.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

People focus too much on their reaction time.

I'm sure your reaction time is fine for smash, just practice on picking up things to react to (see: m2k). Adopting a defeatist mindset and changing characters is not going to help.

This. You'll be fine, leafbarrett.

Smooth Criminal

 

[leafbarrett]

People focus too much on their reaction time.

I'm sure your reaction time is fine for smash, just practice on picking up things to react to (see: m2k). Adopting a defeatist mindset and changing characters is not going to help.

m2k?
And it's not just my reaction time; that just happens to be where I can see quantifiable proof (about a second of delay). My motor control doesn't function right, either.
Trust me, if I had any desire to change mains, I would have done so already. I'm sticking with Lucario, for better or worse. I just... with how well I know myself, I can't see myself properly adjusting to the precision that Lucario-M requires.

 

[Jolteon]

m2k's reaction time is sub-par and he still consistently reacts to stuff, but that's because he has a great game knowledge so he knows when to react. Basically, it's way more important to understand what to react to and why rather than having a fast reaction time.

I don't know how bad your situation is, but I find that most reaction windows in smash are pretty lax, so maybe that's something you should work on if your reaction time is poor.

edit: If you're talking about tech skill though that's a different story, I can't really comment on that. :|

 

[MonkUnit]

Leafbarrett, m2k = mew2king

 

[leafbarrett]

Going back to the bair discussion from before. Is its range so low by design? Am I just using it wrong? It feels like it has a really limited range to me.

 

[Wavebuster]

Going back to the bair discussion from before. Is its range so low by design? Am I just using it wrong? It feels like it has a really limited range to me.

This move is one of his main aerial killers. Almost feels like Doc's Fair in strength.

 

[leafbarrett]

This move is one of his main aerial killers. Almost feels like Doc's Fair in strength.

Nonono, I recognize its power. Believe me, I do. I just feel like it's really lacking in reach.

 

[bubbaking]

I really feel like it's stronger than Doc's fair...

Edit: And I've had no problems with its range.....

Edit 2: Doc's fair and Luke's bair are actually used a lot in the same way. Both can be used at neutral okay, especially if you want to punish something like a tech or roll, although I feel this is easier with Doc's fair, but you should really be aiming to combo into those moves, so they can decisively end your combos with a kill or the opponent in a bad situation. In this respect, I find it a lot easier to combo into Lucario's bair, especially at high %'s. Doc has d/uthrow > fair (throw is MU dependent) and uair > fair. Lucario has sooo many combos into bair. It just happens naturally for me, so I have a hard time explaining it concisely. In many, many situations, if you hit with the weak part of Lucario's aerials, you can net a bair out of it, no problem. Even at really high %'s, where all else fails, Lucario can reliably uthrow > bair.

DIing Lucario's uthrow is tricky (you have to DI behind him) and the throw happens so quickly. Anything less than perfect DI means 100% of the cast definitely gets baired to their deaths. Works on FFers (just SH after the throw) and super-floaties (DJ quickly to catch them) alike. I think the move has really low KB growth. Also, if you suspect that the opponent is DIing your uthrow well, you can mix it up with dthrow in a manner similar to how P:M Sheik currently mixes up b/dthrow. Dthrow sends them forwards, so if they DI your uthrow perfectly, you can still bair them out of dthrow, although dthrow usually stops working at reeaaally high %'s, unlike uthrow. However, even if you have to stick with uthrow (super high %'s or your opponent is too good at DI), you can still get reliable finishers off of uthrow as long as you react to DI. No DI or any DI other than perfect DI behind Lucario gives him a free bair. Perfect DI behind him lets Lucario run under his opponent and kill him with uair or send him offstage with fair.

Bair really is a great killing move on Lucario, especially when coupled with such great setup throws. However.....I've heard unsettling rumors about what's being done to his throws...

 

[iLink]

Lucario's bair has a pretty decent hitbox in terms of size, the issue with it is that he shifts his body in the opposite direction of the punch and doesn't reach out as far as it seems like he could. He sort of pivots his body at his chest as opposed to his waste like Marth kind of does.

 

[ELI-mination]

Lucario is a pretty cool character.

Smooth Eli

 

[GP&B]

He sort of pivots his body at his chest as opposed to his waste like Marth kind of does.

That's pretty gross.

 

[bubbaking]

My reflexes aren't bad (for years I thought they were slow, but i'm starting to learn im significantly more technical than I thought I was.) but I use Bowser and he seems like he'd be pretty easy to play with slow reflexes. He isn't very technically demanding and he gets huge rewards off reading shields, dodges, commitments etc

Yeah, before I suggested the zoning chars, I was gonna suggest bigger, slower chars, but I think they might actually require more reaction. Like, a lot of Bowser's game is based on good reads, optimal positioning, and capitalization during certain situations, but I also think a large portion of his gameplay is based on reactions, like crouching for CC/CA, shielding and upBing at the right times, stuff like that. Also, as a slower char that's based on good reads and positioning, he has to react to the options his opponent chooses. For instance, if a char like Sheik is facing Sonic, she can just nair/bair/tilt and Sonic runs a large risk of running into the hitboxes with little risk to Sheik, but I think Bowser in that MU vs Sonic has to be patient and react more, tilting and upBing everything on reaction. He doesn't have a sex kick or something similar that he could just throw out with decent timing to cover himself for a good deal of time.

#ExtremeTheorycrafting

Well, with me, it's an actual medical reason (apparently, even Asperger's ****s with that, despite being a high-functioning autism).

Supposedly M2K has a meh reaction time, maybe ask him?

Actually, IIRC, M2K's developed Asperger's himself.....

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

He sort of pivots his body at his chest as opposed to his waist like Marth kind of does.

Fixed.

What could possibly be done to Lucario's throws, though? Does it have to do with the Knockback stacking or what?

 

[bubbaking]

If you increased uthrow's KB growth, you'd probably completely ruin how reliable it is at higher %'s as a kill setup.

Edit: KB stacking should have literally 0 effect on what throws do, if I'm understanding the concept correctly.

Lucario is a pretty cool character.

Smooth Eli

Courtesy of Bubbacario

 

[GP&B]

That's correct as they would initiate a new KB value. KB stacking applies to a character already suffering from KB.

The KO at 0:29 in this TAS demonstrates KB stacking.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

Play sonic
My reflexes are below average (was tested)
And im fairly successful

Focus on what you're good at. I make hard reads.
Maybe it'll work with you

I think this might be a problem I have, I rely almost solely on reaction time

 

[leelue]

I should bring up a list of video clips that show my reading skills
You'd never believe I was part African American
It's true!

You ever see the Sherlock Holmes movies? He does this thing where he plays out a fight in his head in slow mo. I do that, but in like 1-2 second increments. Another reason why I play sonic. He gives me that time to think and the speed to act when I sense an upcoming window (aka the famed pivot fsmash)
The problems show up when I'm unfamilar with the opposing character. Idk what fox, Lucario, peach, lucas can do so I don't know what to predict against.

 

[GP&B]

I think this might be a problem I have, I rely almost solely on reaction time

I haven't looked at a lot of videos in depth, but do you know where this affects your performance? It sounds like it can impact move choice and how you space.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

yo

I have a question. How big of a SD card should I get for Project M/miscellaneous mods? Just picked up an (older) Wii tonight. I've yet to get my copy of Barlw; I'll probably get it some time in the next couple of weeks.

Smooth Criminal

 

[GP&B]

1GB minimum, but go for 2GB if you want to customize. If you're going to use Riivolution, you can use any size you want.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Cool! I'll prolly pick up a fairly inexpensive 4GB SD card or an 8GB one.

Thanks, GD.

Smooth Criminal

 

[bubbaking]

Hold on! I'm not sure that SD cards larger than 2GB work the way you think they will. Some weird size limitation.....

Edit:Unless you're using Riivolution, I guess. If you're just using Homebrew+Gecko, the easiest way to hack your Wii IMO, you're limited to 2GB.

I just try to play the game..... :-|

 

[leelue]

You need a 2gig or less
Sdhc limitations and junk


Tl:dr
2gig ma dude

 

[bubbaking]

R4s for the DS have a similar limitation, although they use micro-SD cards instead of full-sized ones.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I'll go with a 2GB then.

Thanks again, guys.

Smooth Criminal

 

[ELI-mination]

You need a 2gb

But if there's bloodstains on the carpet you need 4gb

 

[GP&B]

Your living room carpet specifically. It's excusable most everywhere else.

 

[Giygacoal]

A 512mb card is actually enough for a minimal set since the current demo is less than 300mb, but yeah a 2gb is both easy to find and the best choice.

 

[bubbaking]

Music hacks is why you'd probably want to definitely get a bigger SD card. 2GB isn't even enough if you want to replace every song of every tourney viable stage with high-quality music.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I should bring up a list of video clips that show my reading skills
You'd never believe I was part African American
It's true!

You ever see the Sherlock Holmes movies? He does this thing where he plays out a fight in his head in slow mo. I do that, but in like 1-2 second increments. Another reason why I play sonic. He gives me that time to think and the speed to act when I sense an upcoming window (aka the famed pivot fsmash)
The problems show up when I'm unfamilar with the opposing character. Idk what fox, Lucario, peach, lucas can do so I don't know what to predict against.

Those movies are awesome, and yea I absolutely DON'T do that lol, I just do random crap and go with the flow reacting and whatnot, works with everyone around here since that's what we all do lol, no one reads, I don't even own a book

I haven't looked at a lot of videos in depth, but do you know where this affects your performance? It sounds like it can impact move choice and how you space.

It won't show against my hometown broskis, since we don't read, but when I played Eli, it was easy to tell how many times I made a wrong move choice or spaced wrong by how many times I said "Oh ****" then got annihilated, I've tried improving these things, I also picked up Fox

Eli I demand rematches relatively soon, unless NY still a post-apocalyptic world?

 

[iLink]

2GB is the best you can do running the game through gecko. 4GB only works if you load it using riivolution.

I also wanted to ask if the new character textures are public anywhere such as the ones for the pokemon. I'm asking because SJS, the guy that makes the CSP's I use, takes requests on new portraits for only a short period of time. He is currently doing Charizard and wanted to know if I could get the new colors anywhere so I can requests the portraits from him. If you don't want them public yet, can you requests them on his topic?

 

[leafbarrett]

Actually, IIRC, M2K's developed Asperger's himself.....

Okay, lemme just clarify here. Asperger's Disorder is a form of autism. You don't "develop" autism, you don't catch it from someone. You're born with it. There's no treatments, no medicines. It's a genetic difference. Most of its effects are in the social area (failure to grasp subtle body language and facial expressions, inability to detect subtle sarcasm and a tendency to take things too literally sometimes, etc.), as well as with spoken language (trust me, being physically unable to form coherent words at random points is horrible; for some reason, it has next to no effect in my typed text), but apparently, some of those genes also affect muscle tone, metabolism, and motor controls.
...Sorry. It's just that autism is very poorly understood by the general public (at least in my experience), and honestly, scientists aren't quite sure what to make of it half the time either.
Anywho...

Lucario's bair has a pretty decent hitbox in terms of size, the issue with it is that he shifts his body in the opposite direction of the punch and doesn't reach out as far as it seems like he could. He sort of pivots his body at his chest as opposed to his waist like Marth kind of does.

Yeah, that's the main problem I have with it. The hitbox size is decent, I've seen that for myself in Brawlbox, but... the placement of the hitbox is just awkward. You have to practically be on top of them after the pivot. Not an easy feat, considering how fast Lucario-M falls.
In related news, viewing the moveset+animation for his bair in Brawlbox more than once in a row produces awkward results, as the hitboxes tend to lag behind further and further with each consecutive viewing.

 

[ELI-mination]

Sanity's Thief, you're welcome to come down to NY again. This Monday night, Tuesday, and early Wednesday Strong Bad aka the Link destroyer will be at my house as well.

 

[bubbaking]

Eli I demand rematches relatively soon, unless NY still a post-apocalyptic world?

Come to this tournament so you can help our restoration.

Okay, lemme just clarify here. Asperger's Disorder is a form of autism. You don't "develop" autism, you don't catch it from someone. You're born with it. There's no treatments, no medicines. It's a genetic difference. Most of its effects are in the social area (failure to grasp subtle body language and facial expressions, inability to detect subtle sarcasm and a tendency to take things too literally sometimes, etc.), as well as with spoken language (trust me, being physically unable to form coherent words at random points is horrible; for some reason, it has next to no effect in my typed text), but apparently, some of those genes also affect muscle tone, metabolism, and motor controls.
...Sorry. It's just that autism is very poorly understood by the general public (at least in my experience), and honestly, scientists aren't quite sure what to make of it half the time either.
Anywho...

My wording was probably inaccurate. I apologize if I offended you. I'm pretty sure, however, that I've heard that M2K is indeed autistic, so whoever referred you to him was probably onto something.

Yeah, that's the main problem I have with it. The hitbox size is decent, I've seen that for myself in Brawlbox, but... the placement of the hitbox is just awkward. You have to practically be on top of them after the pivot. Not an easy feat, considering how fast Lucario-M falls.

I usually do it while rising if I'm comboing into it. Other than that, yeah, it's often done while falling on top of the opponent.

In related news, viewing the moveset+animation for his bair in Brawlbox more than once in a row produces awkward results, as the hitboxes tend to lag behind further and further with each consecutive viewing.

Kinda reminds me of that weird glitch in Brawl where, if you listen to the same sound repeatedly, it gradually gets quieter and quieter.

 

[bubbaking]

Sorry for the double post.

 

[Comeback Kid]

Aspergers is so over-diagnosed for people who are just weird or have trouble being social.

Not saying it ain't real, but I know a few people who were diagnosed (and frankly I could have been too because I don't always like looking at people in the eye or good at talking to people I don't like) and they don't have any actual problems recognizing cues or any neurological problems.

So for some it's real but other people are just too lazy to work on their bad habits and become less of a freakazoid.