Project M Social Thread

[leafbarrett]

On-Hit Cancel.
Also, Lucario utilizes quite some injection codes, mostly to get the whole OHC system to work in the first place, so looking into Lucario's moveset file won't yield the entire picture that makes Lucaryu:M.

So basically, I'm really never going to be able to get my moveset to match that complexity? I can only navigate Brawlbox and PSA... I was really excited to see a midair grab, too.

 

[Stevo]

Ness and Lucas are both sorta both "floaty spacies" now huh?

The Space Humanoids
The Earth Animals
The Spacie kids
The Galactic children
The Astral Pre-teens
The New Kids on the Block

 

[ds22]

So basically, I'm really never going to be able to get my moveset to match that complexity? I can only navigate Brawlbox and PSA... I was really excited to see a midair grab, too.

I do know of people on KC-MM who gave their PSA's OHC, though not as refined as Lucaryu's.
So maybe you could try looking around over there.

And about aerial Force Palm grab, IDK what could help you in your situation, since I wasn't the one who coded it.

 

[Shadow Huan]

The Space Humanoids
The Earth Animals
The Spacie kids
The Galactic children
The Astral Pre-teens
The New Kids on the Block

The Spacie Kids works for me

 

[Comeback Kid]

Ness is the best!

 

[leafbarrett]

I do know of people on KC-MM who gave their PSA's OHC, though not as refined as Lucaryu's.
So maybe you could try looking around over there.

Why bother? I wouldn't know what to do with it even if I had it. I don't have the technical experience to implement combos of any sort.


Okay, I need to know. Did the AI for the characters get changed? Because I'm seeing the CPUs perform an alarming number of successful wavedashes, especially Luigi.

 

[standardtoaster]

Yes, the AI has been changed.

 

[Stunts]

Alright, I had a ****ty week, I have a ton to do this weekend, I'm now drunker than a moe, and I want something to kick back to. PLEASE tell me if someone is streaming tonight.

 

[Spoon~]

No streams for you =p

 

[leafbarrett]

Yes, the AI has been changed.

I don't know how the **** they managed that, but it's absolutely brilliant.

 

[bubbaking]

PSI Magnet is now JCable

Do you mean JCable at all times or only upon absorbing something? I believe it could always cancel on absorb...

BThrow looks like it doesn't have as much knockback, though that may just be good DI on Vro's part

Oh god, I hope not! Why would they take away one of the few reliable kill moves of a bad character?

And a question. Why was Lucario's wallcling removed? (Genuine curiosity; you guys are better at this whole competitive business than I am)

What?!? Did they at least remove Sheik's as well? Oh gosh, I hope they kept Squirtle's wall cling...

That is lucario's vB, except it can be used from ANY A attack

Corrected that for ya.

Ness and Lucas are both sorta both "floaty spacies" now huh?]

Well, I don't know about floaty but Lucas was always a pseudo-spacee. I guess he isn't as fast a faller as the true spacees or Falcon, but he still falls pretty fast. From what I'm hearing, though, Ness has also been 'spaceefied.' I guess the PMBR is taking to heart the age-old advice: "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!" Why don't we just give every character a JCable special and be done with it?

 

[standardtoaster]

No streams for you =p

hmmmmm....

 

[Stunts]

Yes, the AI has been changed.

Shoot, I hope that wasn't this week's update

 

[standardtoaster]

It was changed in 2.1, lol.

 

[bubbaking]

Well, I think he meant 'changed further.'

 

[leafbarrett]

Okay, to compound on my earlier statement:
I don't know what brain steroids you used on the AI, but where can I get some?

 

[Comeback Kid]

From what I'm hearing, though, Ness has also been 'spaceefied.' I guess the PMBR is taking to heart the age-old advice: "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!" Why don't we just give every character a JCable special and be done with it?

Wait, are you saying Ness went through a training montage and powered up his psychic energy to super saiyan levels after getting his *** kicked in 2.1?

Or is Ness Frieza begging for mercy and getting some of his energy back with PSI Magnet?

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, downB isn't supposed to be used as a roll (I guess you can), it's supposed to be used with OHC

Well, tbh, you could use it as a roll and it would probably do the job even better, especially if you utilize your super cancel wisely.

Lucaryu:M

I see what you did thar!

The Space Humanoids
The Earth Animals
The Spacie kids
The Galactic children
The Astral Pre-teens
The New Kids on the Block

The Earthbound Ones

 

[standardtoaster]

I'll start streaming in a few minutes

 

[bubbaking]

Wait, are you saying Ness went through a training montage and powered up his psychic energy to super saiyan levels after getting his *** kicked in 2.1?

Or is Ness Frieza begging for mercy and getting some of his energy back with PSI Magnet?

Hmmm, I guess I'd have to conclude that Lucas is the super saiyan and Ness is Frieza. Sounds more canon that way...

 

[standardtoaster]

Stream is live now! http://www.twitch.tv/standardtoaster

 

[bubbaking]

2.5?
102.5's

 

[MonkUnit]

Yes, we're streaming the 2.5 preview.

 

[bubbaking]

So are you guys twins?

 

[Stunts]

I'll start streaming in a few minutes

Cheers, mate!

 

[Shadic]

So are you guys twins?

No, they're the same person.

 

[bubbaking]

 

[ELI-mination]

PMBR get back on topic plz

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

Do you mean JCable at all times or only upon absorbing something? I believe it could always cancel on absorb...

It looked like you could just JC it regardless of whether it absorbed anything, which makes sense given its new offensive properties.

 

[bubbaking]

Just gonna announce this again:

Melee and Project M tournament taking place at Stony Brook University (in NY, on LI) on December 1st.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=15016554

 

[ph00tbag]

This is simply wrong information. Samus can very well recover high. Sure, she's not great at it, but her bomb stalling covers her from below and gives her mix-up potential due to the aerial mobility afforded by her morph ball form. It's actually much more reliable than Mewtwo coming in from above, where he has to make a 50-50 guess over whether he should teleport or not and then pray that his opponent didn't catch on. Samus can also FF dair when she spots an opening, thus setting up for combos, TCs, and gimps. I wish Mewtwo had a reliable dair with which to come down. I think the only aerial he has to properly cover himself when descending is nair. Even Samus's nair and uair are better descent options than that. Even without bombs, Samus's recovery is far from "***". She's the third floatiest char in the game and she still has her great DJ, tether, and upB.

I'm a Samus main, and I've played enough lackadaisical friendlies with Mew2 (who hasn't?) to get a good feel of his recovery. If both chars are in the lower blastzone of FD with their DJ intact, Samus can make it back with a DJ > tether > upB. I'm not sure if the rising grapple (which sends Samus into tumble) would make her go higher, but she can make it just fine with a regular tether. I remember being in similar situations with Mewtwo and falling short of the ledge. Besides, in such a situation, the opponent would definitely ledgehog you, causing Mewtwo to die (but Samus would survive thanks to Screw Attack).

Stingers and leelue have covered most of these two. You're outright wrong with everything concerning Mewtwo, and it's painfully obvious to anyone that has actually bothered to compare the two recoveries (which I did for my own edification four years ago) that you have done none of your own comparisons). And, speaking as a fellow Samus main, I must say you vastly overrate a lot of Samus's options. Samus has no solid way of reaching the ground when someone is threatening her from below. She can threaten them with aerials, but her dair sucks, and her nair is outranged by a lot of uairs. She can use bombs, but there's a very punishable moment right as Samus leaves the first bomb animation that makes air raids unsafe at all but the highest vertical spacings. I say this having played as Samus and against Samus. Her safest option is to air control all the way offstage, then recover from the side. Mewtwo at least has the option to teleport through someone who's overzealously approaching from below.

You are not speaking from experience when you talk about Samus's upB, but I am.

Judging by join date, I have three years of experience on you, specifically as a Samus main. I'm not sure where you got the impression I'm inexperienced with the character.

Sami definitely do NOT use her upB as a last resort.

That's why I said "primarily." There are other uses for Screw Attack, but most of them are mostly as a mix-up that keeps her other options potent. They're not something you can rely on. Like you said, "There are better options." The only time you'll see a Samus main use upb more than another option they have in a given situation is when they have no other option.

 

[bubbaking]

Stingers and leelue have covered most of these two. You're outright wrong with everything concerning Mewtwo, and it's painfully obvious to anyone that has actually bothered to compare the two recoveries (which I did for my own edification four years ago) that you have done none of your own comparisons). And, speaking as a fellow Samus main, I must say you vastly overrate a lot of Samus's options. Samus has no solid way of reaching the ground when someone is threatening her from below. She can threaten them with aerials, but her dair sucks, and her nair is outranged by a lot of uairs. She can use bombs, but there's a very punishable moment right as Samus leaves the first bomb animation that makes air raids unsafe at all but the highest vertical spacings. I say this having played as Samus and against Samus. Her safest option is to air control all the way offstage, then recover from the side. Mewtwo at least has the option to teleport through someone who's overzealously approaching from below.

I don't think you really know what you're talking about, especially if you're gonna say her dair sucks. The move has only 7 frames of landing lag, like all of her other aerials, and it has a good hitbox. Samus can safely dair an opponent's shield and upB right afterwards. Sure, as I said before, this isn't a great option, but saying "her dair sucks" is a sore understatement of Samus's capabilities. Samus may be vulnerable during small portions of the bomb animations, but that's what bomb mixups are for. Samus can bomb on reaction to many approaches from below and she will bounce off the opponent or even their attack without taking any damage. You can't just bomb repeatedly and unwisely. I went through a 'phase' where I tried to pick up Mewtwo as a fun secondary (never came to fruition), but I did indeed use him a bit, so I'm aware of his options while recovering. I admit that Mewtwo's recovery distance is really good, but his options really aren't.

Judging by join date, I have three years of experience on you, specifically as a Samus main. I'm not sure where you got the impression I'm inexperienced with the character.

Because join date is indicative of when I actually started playing Melee competitively, right, despite all the years I spent lurking without making an account? Besides, Samus's meta was somewhat irrelevant earlier than 2009. So many things have been developed, so time spent playing the character so far back is not as important as time spent recently and now. The character is to be re-learned as the meta advances. I, myself, went over and effectively 're-learned' my own Samus playstyle at least twice since I picked up the char. I got the impression that you were inexperienced from the comments you made.

Edit: Back before 2009, it was a fine strategy for Samus to pressure shields with jab > spot-dodge > jab. That shield pressure strat has since been replaced with the superior pressure strat jab > crouch > jab, with the spot-dodge variant remaining as a mix-up to be used sparingly. New and old Sami alike should be aware of this new meta because it is a more recent development. Being an old Samus does not give you any extra perks in this regard.

That's why I said "primarily." There are other uses for Screw Attack, but most of them are mostly as a mix-up that keeps her other options potent. They're not something you can rely on. Like you said, "There are better options." The only time you'll see a Samus main use upb more than another option they have in a given situation is when they have no other option.

You can't rely on any aspect of most recoveries other than distance. That goes for Mewtwo, as well. The only recovery that has multiple truly reliable aspects is Jiggs. Saying "The only time you'll see a Samus main use upb more than another option they have in a given situation is when they have no other option," simply is not true. As I just said earlier, I may go for a TC off of the Screw Attack if I see the opponent standing open on/near the ledge or hanging on it without invincibility. That doesn't mean there weren't other options. The option to sweetspot the tether is virtually always there.

 

[metroid1117]

Please move this discussion to private messages, you two. This thread isn't the place for a heated argument regarding two characters not in Demo 2.1, one of them being only in Melee.

New topic: Which character do you have the most fun watching? (Either Demo 2.1 or Demo 2.5.)

 

[Kink-Link5]

Charizard Dittos

Ike Ikes

 

[bubbaking]

Please move this discussion to private messages, you two. This thread isn't the place for a heated argument regarding two characters not in Demo 2.1, one of them being only in Melee.

New topic: Which character do you have the most fun watching? (Either Demo 2.1 or Demo 2.5.)

Does this mean Samus won't be in 2.5?
data:image/jpeg;base64,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***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***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

 

[bubbaking]

Woah, I can't edit it.

Edit: Uh, can the above message be disregarded? That's an image insert attempt gone bad.........really bad.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Either I'm glitching out in that there's a page 1960 now with no posts on it, or Bones0 posted in the PM thread.

 

[bubbaking]

Aaaaaanyway, to answer metroid's question, I probably like seeing the new PT poke play the most. Can we see more of that?

 

[ph00tbag]

I don't think you really know what you're talking about, especially if you're gonna say her dair sucks. The move has only 7 frames of landing lag, like all of her other aerials, and it has a good hitbox. Samus can safely dair an opponent's shield and upB right afterwards. Sure, as I said before, this isn't a great option, but saying "her dair sucks" is a sore understatement of Samus's capabilities. Samus may be vulnerable during small portions of the bomb animations, but that's what bomb mixups are for. Samus can bomb on reaction to many approaches from below and she will bounce off the opponent or even their attack without taking any damage. You can't just bomb repeatedly and unwisely. I went through a 'phase' where I tried to pick up Mewtwo as a fun secondary (never came to fruition), but I did indeed use him a bit, so I'm aware of his options while recovering. I admit that Mewtwo's recovery distance is really good, but his options really aren't.

It's called baiting. The whole point is you don't really have to respect Samus in the air because there's a way to bait, react to, and punish every option she has against opponents that are below her for just about any mid-to-top tier character. Talking about hitboxes and landing lag doesn't matter if your options all telegraph themselves. Dair is great for pressure and starting combos, but its start-up is enough that an opponent that's playing safe should never be in a position where they can get hit by it. Bombs are just not that threatening. Many characters can bait it from a position where Samus has no chance of punishing, and either punish her directly, or force her to give up ground. It only punishes the most bullheaded juggle attempts. (For the record, this means these options have their uses, and shouldn't be discounted entirely, but their use requires an understanding and acknowledgement of their flaws, and the very major flaws of these moves are what you are completely disregarding here, and are what I've been trying to repeat over and over again.)

On the other hand, if you want to bait Mewtwo's teleport, you have to respect his position, give up your own position to read his angle, and react before his minimal lag is over. But if you don't respect Mewtwo's teleport, or tip your hand to the teleport you read too early, he can just use the move and warp to the ground or edge with you in no position to punish.

Because join date is indicative of when I actually started playing Melee competitively, right, despite all the years I spent lurking without making an account? Besides, Samus's meta was somewhat irrelevant earlier than 2009. So many things have been developed, so time spent playing the character so far back is not as important as time spent recently and now. The character is to be re-learned as the meta advances. I, myself, went over and effectively 're-learned' my own Samus playstyle at least twice since I picked up the char. I got the impression that you were inexperienced from the comments you made.

Edit: Back before 2009, it was a fine strategy for Samus to pressure shields with jab > spot-dodge > jab. That shield pressure strat has since been replaced with the superior pressure strat jab > crouch > jab, with the spot-dodge variant remaining as a mix-up to be used sparingly. New and old Sami alike should be aware of this new meta because it is a more recent development. Being an old Samus does not give you any extra perks in this regard.

Which is it? Should the more experienced player be trusted to know what he's talking about, or is their knowledge irrelevant because it comes from before you started playing?

To say nothing of the fact that HugS was CCing his jabs before I even started playing seriously.

You can't rely on any aspect of most recoveries other than distance. That goes for Mewtwo, as well. The only recovery that has multiple truly reliable aspects is Jiggs. Saying "The only time you'll see a Samus main use upb more than another option they have in a given situation is when they have no other option," simply is not true. As I just said earlier, I may go for a TC off of the Screw Attack if I see the opponent standing open on/near the ledge or hanging on it without invincibility. That doesn't mean there weren't other options. The option to sweetspot the tether is virtually always there.

The point is that any of those screw attacks you're going for in your hypothetical situations are situations where your opponent can bait the screw attack, often on reaction.

 

[Stunts]

Is any of this Samus discussion about P:M?

If not, then enough

It's not that I wanna play moderator, it's just that these huge comments are kind of an eyesore. If it's about Melee, then talk about it in a thread about Melee.