• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Project M Social Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
If I need to edit my post I will. Was that not okay?
I don't have any problem with it. I personally like my share of leaks. :reverse:

That's so weird.

It seems a lot weaker.

I guess it's just me not being used to weights/hitboxes on newer characters and mistiming it.
Fun fact: Exactly half of the vBrawl newcomers that have been added to P:M so far are heavyweights. 12 characters introduced in vBrawl have been added to PM v2.1. Six of them (Snake, Wario, ROB, Zard, Ike, and DDD) are heavy. Maybe comparatively, you feel like Falco's bair is weaker because relatively more characters have been added who don't fly as far from being hit by it.
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
Fsmash should be faster, same with dash attack
 

iLink

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
2,075
Location
NorCal
I thought snake's weight was changed to not be a heavy-weight anymore, or was he changed to just be less heavy but still a heavy?
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
Mewtwo doesn't really need to stall all that much except to avoid attacks anyway. He's not really all that likely to be recovering low due to his recovery mix-ups from above and to the side. Unlike Samus who needs bomb stalling for her recovery not to be ***, can't recover from above, and can be predicted and baited depending on the angle she's recovering from.
This is simply wrong information. Samus can very well recover high. Sure, she's not great at it, but her bomb stalling covers her from below and gives her mix-up potential due to the aerial mobility afforded by her morph ball form. It's actually much more reliable than Mewtwo coming in from above, where he has to make a 50-50 guess over whether he should teleport or not and then pray that his opponent didn't catch on. Samus can also FF dair when she spots an opening, thus setting up for combos, TCs, and gimps. I wish Mewtwo had a reliable dair with which to come down. I think the only aerial he has to properly cover himself when descending is nair. Even Samus's nair and uair are better descent options than that. Even without bombs, Samus's recovery is far from "***". She's the third floatiest char in the game and she still has her great DJ, tether, and upB.

This is demonstrably false. Did you even bother to test this before saying it?
I'm a Samus main, and I've played enough lackadaisical friendlies with Mew2 (who hasn't?) to get a good feel of his recovery. If both chars are in the lower blastzone of FD with their DJ intact, Samus can make it back with a DJ > tether > upB. I'm not sure if the rising grapple (which sends Samus into tumble) would make her go higher, but she can make it just fine with a regular tether. I remember being in similar situations with Mewtwo and falling short of the ledge. Besides, in such a situation, the opponent would definitely ledgehog you, causing Mewtwo to die (but Samus would survive thanks to Screw Attack).

I don't see how this makes it better as a recovery option. It has one sweetspot angle, and is easily baited and punished from other angles. There's a reason most Sami use it primarily as a last resort.
You are not speaking from experience when you talk about Samus's upB, but I am. Sami definitely do NOT use her upB as a last resort. Like Doc's upB, it can set up clutch TC's on fast fallers if connected and followed up with immediately. Lolz at Mewtwo attempting such a reversal. The true reason Samuses use other recovery methods (tether, recover high, etc) is because they are faster and easier to capitalize on or because of general BS, like Marth's dair. It is faster and more profitable to snap to the ledge with tether and then ledgehop > WL > dsmash/grab/etc. then to upB to the ledge, which would be slower, and follow up from that. I didn't choose not to upB because it was bad, I simply chose not to because there were better options. Options is the reason Samus is a solid character. Options is something that Mewtwo simply does not have many of.
 

leelue

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
1,926
Location
All up in your personal space, NY
Mewtwos distance in his vertical recovery is unparalleled
He can make it from the little island at the bottom of hyrule to the ledge on the right hand side

Seeing as how you can teleport in about 6-8 useful directions i would say that his ability to come down vertically is also pretty damn good.

Mewtwo is a bad character despite the recovery options he has bbk. Mewtwos recovery is godlike
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
Ike is really unchanged? Metroid and Vro both found themselves unable to Bair waveland in 2.5 last night. Plus his recovery is worse being that he can f-b wj only twice. Admittedly, I don't know if those features were in 2.1 or not.
Where they able to do it in 2.1? It was possible in 2.1, I used buffer to do it, but it's relatively hard or a frame harder than Falco's AC Bair so you being a good Falco might have been able to do it if you tried. I'm thinking if they never tried it in 2.1 though that they might of just not been able to do it? There's also Autocancelling the Fair/Up-air in a SH which is around the same hardness, but they can't be Jump/WD'ed out of like SH Bair.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knNK-fLBNps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSTBLAs9PNA&feature=plcp

If you want to try it with buffer just set it to 30 or more and Rotate/Roll thumb from X to A, so that the A input gets inputted while you're still in jump start but it gets buffered so that when you leave the jump start and go into the jump (Ike has 5 Jump start frames?) it activates the A input frame perfect (and then just be sure to be holding the direction of the move at that moment).
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
samus's recovery is better than mewtwo's even tho he covers more distance more quickly (and having the best vertical recovery in the game, period)

samus has more versatility

:phone:
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
I thought snake's weight was changed to not be a heavy-weight anymore, or was he changed to just be less heavy but still a heavy?
Snake is now the 9th heaviest character in P:M, lighter than ROB but heavier than Link and Falcon, so he is now either the lightest heavyweight or the heaviest middleweight. He is exactly one weight unit below ROB and one unit above Captain Link, so you could call it either way.

Snake's weight is Yoshi's NTSC Melee weight and has been since demo 1, which makes him one of the heavier middleweights.
Yoshi was, and has always been, a heavyweight. He was just the lightest heavyweight in NTSC Melee. The heaviest middleweights in Melee were Link and Captain Falcon (they were tied). One could argue that Yoshi was actually the heaviest middleweight, but his weight is only one unit below Ganon's while being an entire four units above Link's and C.Falcon's, so I think it's more reasonable to postulate that NTSC Yoshi is indeed a heavyweight.
 

stingers

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
26,796
Location
Raleigh, NC
did someone just say mewtwos recovery lacked options?

samus has: down b, tether, up b
mewtwo has: double jump length extension, side b stall, shadow ball push, ability to control his dj height (very useful for sweetspotting) and a lagless teleport.
 

Stevo

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
2,476
Location
150km north of nowhere, Canada
samus's recovery is better than mewtwo's even tho he covers more distance more quickly (and having the best vertical recovery in the game, period)

samus has more versatility

:phone:
When recovering from high, mewtwo is better
When recovering from low, Samus is better.

Who do you think is better most of the time?

hint
Losing your double jump or having bad DI are really the only reasons you would have to recover low with Mewtwo, because his double jump can bring you high and he is pretty floaty
 

stingers

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
26,796
Location
Raleigh, NC
tbqh stevo, I would reverse that entirely.
samus has the unmatched ability to stall nigh indefinitely (sans jiggs retardedness) the more height she has thanks to bomb jumping. this means the more height she starts with, the more control she has over her movement over all, and the longer she can stall in the face of a bad situation.
mewtwo's biggest strength is that he can gain height VERY easily with his dj + extension, and then shift that to horizontal momentum rather quickly (thru neutral b and instant tele).
 

Stevo

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
2,476
Location
150km north of nowhere, Canada
tbqh stevo, I would reverse that entirely.
samus has the unmatched ability to stall nigh indefinitely (sans jiggs retardedness) the more height she has thanks to bomb jumping. this means the more height she starts with, the more control she has over her movement over all, and the longer she can stall in the face of a bad situation.
mewtwo's biggest strength is that he can gain height VERY easily with his dj + extension, and then shift that to horizontal momentum rather quickly (thru neutral b and instant tele).
that was the point (did you miss the hint?), Mewtwo can double jump to go high for his up-b. So he is good from low... if he can get high.... I guess that makes it kind of confusing. The point is, you want to GO high with mewtwo, whereas, with samus, you often want to start high and end up low.

Bomb jumping does very little for distance, it should mostly be used to avoid edgeguards (stall in the face of a bad situation as you put it). She can do that low too though, as she has grapple and an up-b that actually can hit people off the ledge.

if both mewtwo and samus are knocked low without a double jump, who is going to survive?

The point was samus is better in this situation, but that it does not come up very often
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
did someone just say mewtwos recovery lacked options?

samus has: down b, tether, up b
mewtwo has: double jump length extension, side b stall, shadow ball push, ability to control his dj height (very useful for sweetspotting) and a lagless teleport.
Tether literally counts as several options for Samus because there are so many ways to utilize it, thanks to all the Samus-specific tether techs that exist. You have:
  • Sweetspot tether (every char has this)
  • Non-sweetspot tether that pulls Samus up (every char has this)
  • AD > tether thin air (every char can do this, but Samus's floatiness really helps and her zair length makes it a good hitbox, too)
  • Rising tether at thin air (Every char can do this but Samus reaches an incredible height with it, comparable to her upB distance)
  • Rising grapple that sends Samus into tumble (Samus-specific; Samus can cancel the tumble state immediately with aerials and specials, so it's the only way to quickly missile after tethering the stage).
  • Rising grapple cancel (Rising grapple right next to the stage's side; has only TWO frames of landing lag which is the same exact amount of lag as simply landing out of a jump)

Edit: The rising grapple cancel (also called the high jump) also covers a lot more vertical distance than her upB when done next to a curved surface, hence the second name.

Bomb jumping does very little for distance, it should mostly be used to avoid edgeguards (stall in the face of a bad situation as you put it). She can do that low too though, as she has grapple and an up-b that actually can hit people off the ledge.
I'll disagree with you on the distance point, but that's arbitrary. Samus also has two forms of bomb jumping, one that utilizes two bombs to cover the maximum horizontal distance (max stall capability) and one that only utilizes one for a little distance boosting (no stall capability but faster and harder to predict and react to). Good Samuses use both for mix-up ability, especially when they need to recover high.

if both mewtwo and samus are knocked low without a double jump, who is going to survive?

The point was samus is better in this situation, but that it does not come up very often
What? "It does not come up very often?" With all the DJC's that Mewtwos use, I'd be surprised if a Mewtwo didn't die from losing his DJ before being sent offstage at least once per match (obvious exaggeration). Mewtwos also use their teleport onstage to escape pressure at times but if they get hit after it, they've lost their DJ, so it's just like a DJC in that respect. Anyway, my main point was that Samus's recovery is better than Mewtwo's due to versatility, but I guess either one being better is arbitrary if they're really close. I would agree that both are better than Peach's.
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
23,165
Location
Missouri
Switch FC
2687-7494-5103
I'm pretty excited for Samus. I mained her in melee for 3-4 years.
 

Stevo

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
2,476
Location
150km north of nowhere, Canada
I'll disagree with you on the distance point, but that's arbitrary.
I'm not saying that the distance is negligible, you can definitely use it for distance, but I would still use it to help with recovering even if it didn't give you a distance boost, for reasons such as what you posted.

What? "It does not come up very often?" With all the DJC's that Mewtwos use, I'd be surprised if a Mewtwo didn't die from losing his DJ before being sent offstage at least once per match (obvious exaggeration). Mewtwos also use their teleport onstage to escape pressure at times but if they get hit after it, they've lost their DJ, so it's just like a DJC in that respect. Anyway, my main point was that Samus's recovery is better than Mewtwo's due to versatility, but I guess either one being better is arbitrary if they're really close. I would agree that both are better than Peach's.
I sort of half disagree a bit here, but whatever. Let's just leave it at they are both good at recovering I guess lol.

Can we please get back to Project M?
I would say this is more on topic than many of the other topics discussed here often. Plus, there isn't much to discuss about for PM. We are all anxiously awaiting more news! :cool:
 

metroid1117

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Messages
3,786
Location
Chester, IL
Okay, so the video of the Demo 2.5 Preview Stream is up, albeit in poor (but watchable) quality. The link to the video is here and the index of matches can be found below (please understand that doing video URLs of each match would take a very long time, so I didn't do it). Players featured in this stream are Vro, Menenks, MattDotZeb, Rat, Oro, and myself.

0:00:00 - Vro (Wario) vs Menenks (Wolf)
0:01:40 - Vro (D3) vs Menenks (Ike)
0:05:00 - Vro (D3) vs Menenks (Fox)
0:07:17 - Vro (D3) vs Menenks (Falco)
0:11:47 - Vro (D3) vs Menenks (Falco)
0:22:54 - metroid (Charizard) vs Vro (Ike)
0:26:39 - MattDotZeb (Ness) vs Vro (Ike)
0:31:13 - Vro (Ike) vs Menenks (Fox)
0:34:29 - metroid (Ness) vs Vro (D3)
0:41:24 - metroid (Lucario) vs MattDotZeb (Ness)
0:45:55 - metroid (Lucario) vs MattDotZeb (Ness)
0:49:40 - metroid (Lucario) vs DSF (Marth)
0:53:50 - MattDotZeb (Ness) vs DSF (Marth)
0:59:21 - metroid (Ike) vs DSF (Marth)
1:02:45 - MattDotZeb (Falco) vs DSF (Marth)
1:07:11 - metroid (Ike) vs DSF (Marth)
1:10:57 - metroid (Ike) vs MattDotZeb (Falco)
1:15:19 - metroid (Charizard) vs DSF (Marth)
1:20:25 - MattDotZeb (Fox) vs DSF (Marth)
1:23:37 - metroid (Charizard) vs MattDotZeb (Fox)
1:27:15 - MattDotZeb (Fox) vs Rat (Squirtle)
1:30:49 - metroid (Charizard) vs MattDotZeb (Fox)
1:32:57 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Squirtle)
1:35:16 - metroid (Charizard) vs MattDotZeb (Fox)
1:38:27 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Squirtle)
1:43:23 - metroid (Charizard) vs MattDotZeb (Falco)
1:54:22 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Ivysaur)
1:58:35 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Falcon)
2:03:15 - Oro (Falcon) vs Rat (Squirtle)
2:07:46 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Falcon)
2:10:48 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Sonic)
2:14:58 - Oro (Fox) vs Rat (Sonic)
2:19:47 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Fox)
2:22:14 - Oro (Fox) vs Rat (Sonic)
2:27:13 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Fox)
2:29:43 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Sonic)
2:33:31 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Sheik)
2:36:28 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Sonic)
2:39:33 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Link)
2:21:58 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Wolf)
2:45:47 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Link)
2:49:33 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Ivysaur)
2:54:10 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Link)
2:57:23 - Oro (Link) vs Rat (Sonic)
3:01:28 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Sonic)
3:05:02 - Oro (Marth) vs Rat (Sonic)
3:08:14 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Marth)
3:11:48 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Squirtle)
3:15:46 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Falcon)
3:18:05 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Squirtle)
3:20:46 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Falcon)
3:24:53 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Ike)
3:27:49 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Marth)
3:30:46 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Charizard)
3:35:12 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Sheik)
3:39:50 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Ivysaur)
3:41:56 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Falcon)
3:45:13 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Ivysaur)
3:49:10 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Link)
3:53:13 - Oro (Link) vs Rat (Sonic)
3:56:33 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Link)
3:59:03 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Sonic)
4:02:35 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Fox)
4:05:49 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Sonic)
4:08:44 - metroid (Charizard) vs Oro (Sheik)
4:12:11 - metroid (Charizard) vs Rat (Sonic)
 

stingers

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
26,796
Location
Raleigh, NC
well that should have me set til next christmas.
great work metroid! that looks like it took a lot of effort. gs
 

metroid1117

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Messages
3,786
Location
Chester, IL
thanks for the effort of uploading and giving the time stamps


Edit: hmm, it is pretty bad quality in some parts lol

thanks anyway though!
Yeah, if I plan on streaming every Thursday then I definitely need to look into streaming tutorials or buy a better capture card =/.
 

JediKnightTemplar

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
1,092
Location
Midland, Michigan
Okay, so the video of the Demo 2.5 Preview Stream is up, albeit in poor (but watchable) quality. The link to the video is here and the index of matches can be found below (please understand that doing video URLs of each match would take a very long time, so I didn't do it). Players featured in this stream are Vro, Menenks, MattDotZeb, Rat, Oro, and myself.
It looks like Ness has gotten some considerable buffs. Here's what I noticed during the ~3 minutes I watched:

PSI Magnet is now JCable and does electric damage similar to Lucas. In addition it looks like it can be used to cancel at least PK Fire, though there may be other attacks it cancels as well.
FAir and PKT2 both seem to have more electric effects
BThrow looks like it doesn't have as much knockback, though that may just be good DI on Vro's part
 

leafbarrett

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
1,388
Location
USA
How in blue blazes did you get Lucario's Force Palm grab to work correctly in midair? I've examined the code in detail, but trying to replicate the result always falls apart during the throw itself: the caught character just breaks out at the end of the animation instead of being thrown. They also don't follow the ThrowN bone like they're supposed to. :<

Constructive feedback: "I'm not sure if x move really helps this character out. Can you guys maybe try increasing x stat or change this move to be something else? It doesn't really help in its intended situations, unfortunately."
I can do that. :3
I want to preface this by saying that I am not a professional player, and quite literally do not have a fast enough brain to be a competitive player (**** you genetics, why'd you go and do that), so you might want to take this with a grain of salt.
Lucario's grounded dspecial seems rather underpowered. Most times, just dodging does the trick better. Now, I'm not saying the move doesn't have its uses: in midair, it's spectacularly helpful. The grounded version just doesn't seem as useful as it could be. Perhaps increasing the distance a little would help?
If it's just my own incompetence, then can someone explain how to do it correctly?

And a question. Why was Lucario's wallcling removed? (Genuine curiosity; you guys are better at this whole competitive business than I am)
 

DMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
18,958
Location
Waco
Slippi.gg
DMG#931
Ike is heavy as ****, that also helps lol. HEAVY HEAVY
 

jalued

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
1,813
Location
somewhere cold and dreary
Lucario's grounded dspecial seems rather underpowered. Most times, just dodging does the trick better. Now, I'm not saying the move doesn't have its uses: in midair, it's spectacularly helpful. The grounded version just doesn't seem as useful as it could be. Perhaps increasing the distance a little would help?
If it's just my own incompetence, then can someone explain how to do it correctly?
Lucario's vB is probably one of his best specials. It basically allows you to follow up any combo string because it puts you in a position to easily combo

As an example:

imagine marth does a dtilt, and then quickly dashes towards the opponent to grab him. It's pretty fast right?

Now imagine that the dtilt cancels as soon as you hit with it, and you then dash faster than normal towards the opponent giving you complete frame advantage...

That is lucario's vB, except it can be used from ANY smash or tilt.

example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsYexaCtjhA
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
aw i missed the mewtwo recovery argument.

i would've put in my two cents, since i, y'know, MAINED THE CHARACTER for about two years, i sorta know what the **** i'm talking about.

but i digress

project M

Ness and Lucas are both sorta both "floaty spacies" now huh?

:phone:
 

leafbarrett

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
1,388
Location
USA
Lucario's vB is probably one of his best specials. It basically allows you to follow up any combo string because it puts you in a position to easily uts you in the position to potentially followup from any move.

As an example: imagine marth does a dtilt, and then quickly dashes towards the opponent to grab him. It's pretty fast right?

Now imagine that the dtilt cancels as soon as you hit with it, and you then dash faster than normal towards the opponent giving you complete frame advantage...

That is lucario's vB, except it can be used from ANY smash or tilt.

example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsYexaCtjhA
Holy mother of god what did I just watch.
 

leafbarrett

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
1,388
Location
USA
I should have put a warning on that video...
I can pretty much give up on my Lucario moveset, because nothing I do will ever match that level of technical complexity. Truly, I am shamed. 3 years of work, rendered obsolete by god-level hackers. ;-;
Yeah, downB isn't supposed to be used as a roll (I guess you can), it's supposed to be used with OHC
...er... One hit combos? *guess* (Don't assume I know terminology. I know the basics of competitive, like wavedashes and SHFF, but that's about the extent of it.)
 

ds22

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
1,662
Location
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
On-Hit Cancel.
Also, Lucario utilizes quite some injection codes, mostly to get the whole OHC system to work in the first place, so looking into Lucario's moveset file won't yield the entire picture that makes Lucaryu:M.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom