Project M Social Thread

[iLink]

Fsmash to fsmash isnt even possible without a charge and im willing to bet it can even be avoided with proper DI, like most of lucario's combos.

 

[kaizo13]

Why wouldn't it?

that is also my question

 

[Divinokage]

Fsmash to fsmash isnt even possible without a charge and im willing to bet it can even be avoided with proper DI, like most of lucario's combos.

Anything can be avoided with DI, no ****. I'm talking about the design of characters, it feels out of place and like I said the more I play it, the more I feel like it's insane. Lucario can cancel any of his attacks with that dodge of his and follow you to the ends of the world.. it's too absurd. Anyways, I had enough of talking about it.. the game won't last for me and that's that.

 

[drsusredfish]

"Different is bad" is all I'm getting from this.

Thats what i was geting from Kage. As of now I have no real problem with P:M.

 

[Divinokage]

Oh you'll see eventually if you ever get to face really good Brawl character players.

 

[DMG]

Minus Pit LOL

Pit is so light and floaty it's a dream for Falcon

 

[Divinokage]

Minus Pit LOL

I guess... lol. He's a pretty standard character from what I can tell.

 

[Dantarion]

Lucario is an extermely special case.
But seriously, we have to give the newcomers and melee low tiers SOMETHING.

For example, Falco has a invincible combo move that he can cancel into a jump, a spike that stays out forever, a techchase throw, and a projectile that cancels on landing that can be fast falled, and two recovery moves.

The character you are complaining about have new mechanics because without trying new things, we would just end up copying pieces of melee top tiers and end up with a lot of boring characters. These characters "break" what you think about Melee because P:M ISNT MELEE.

You have to taet it like a new entry in the series, this isn't Melee 1.5 or Melee 1.1, its supposed to be Melee 2.0. Lucario is by far the most ambitious character, and his current status can easily be tweaked. His mechanics are different than anything seen in smash before, and that is why people talk about him.

The idea isn't to make everyone the same, but to create new playstyles that no one has ever even thought of before.

 

[OkamiBW]

Anything can be avoided with DI, no ****.

Like Sheik's D-throw CG on Ganon in Melee.

 

[Divinokage]

Like Sheik's D-throw CG on Ganon in Melee.

It doesn't work at 0 and you can go on platforms at 40%, so what? Wtf is your point?

 

[OkamiBW]

It doesn't work at 0 and you can go on platforms at 40%, so what? Wtf is your point?

Just that you can't avoid 'anything' with DI. (i.e. said CG on FD at mid percents)

 

[Divinokage]

P:M isn't supposed to be Melee.. but Melee 2.0? Umm..

 

[OkamiBW]

Oh, you mean you can DI out of anything in P:M?

Eh, whatevs. I'll just say you're wrong and you can't get out of 'everything'.

 

[Divinokage]

Well you should be, almost.. though getting instant kills in combos or out of a guess is pretty extreme.. you can't meteor cancel Lucario's side-B.

 

[OkamiBW]

Well you should be, almost.. though getting instant kills in combos or out of a guess is pretty extreme.. you can't meteor cancel Lucario's side-B.

You can't meteor cancel it if he has aura. If not, you can.

 

[Divinokage]

You'll die anyway even at low %, you can't!!

 

[DMG]

The problem is further exacerbated IIRC because meteor cancelling itself is worse off than in Melee. That's a general problem not Lucario specific.

 

[bubbaking]

I'm going to agree with Kage on this. For example, it's always irked me that characters like Sonic, ROB, Snake, and to an extent Lucario and Pit get such amazing options while recovering. For the feel of the game, it'd be much better to have the first three simply have very fast recoveries with hitboxes on the recovery itself. It really would contribute to t he feeling of Melee.

Woah, woah, woah, ROB's recovery is NOT that good. It's linear style makes it easy to intercept and the fact that he only gets ONE boost back for grabbing the ledge is kinda ridiculous, imo, when chars like Jiggs get ALL their jumps back for doing the same thing. Snake's recovery is also quite easily intercepted.

with platforms pit can remain like 100% safe with the new arrows. its really good...I dont think u understand. ill see if I can get a replay of me doing it.

http://www.twitch.tv/freesaltines/b/330649098
The first two matches are the important ones. They're matches of my ROB vs GuruKid's Pit. He has all the platforms he could want and they still don't let him camp me to death. Pit definitely can't remain even close to 100% safe, but he CAN do some amazing things with his new-found arrows.

@dmg: iirc he was saying it was only mario's recovery which didnt fit b/c of the cape being ridiculous and him being able to wall jump out of up b every time

I can understand the cape, but Mario could upB wall jump several times in Melee, too. I used to play around with it all the time on Foursides. The wall jump window is simply larger in P:M, so the tech is much easier.

 

[Hylian]

You'll die anyway even at low %, you can't!!

You certainly can MC lucario's side-b at any % if he doesn't have aura >_> I have done it plenty of times and rarely die to that move.

 

[bubbaking]

Well, even if you meteor cancel it, Lucario gets a free dair or something...

 

[Vigilante]

Kage, I like you, but I will stop you here for a moment.

You can easily cancel normal meteor from Lucario and survive. JCaesar was able to recover from me using ROB and Mario, and even my scrub friend was able to do it unknowingly with Marth. It isn't that bad.

His moves are a bit hard to read, that I will grant you. Animation work will eventually be done to correct this. However, in general, I think Lucario is a well-balanced, different kind of character that adds much needed variety to a stagnating metagame. Sure he needs a tweak here and there, but I feel you haven't even tried to play Lucario and basically don't understand the underlying functions of his mechanics. Several of the things you've said are misinformed.

Why are his mechanics bad? Is it because it isn't Melee? Why should newcomers all play similarily? Fox can waveshine around the stage faster than Lucario can Down B and he even has hitboxes. Jiggs and Peach can attack your shield without any committement. Falco has a spike and lasers that can lock your movement just by knowing how to short hop and fast fall. Lucario is nowhere that crazy.

We could easily balance the game by giving everyone chain grabs and shines, but Smash is also about character diversity. There are many individuals playing it. Some liek you prefer more straight-forward aggressive power houses like Ganon. Others prefer spacing characters like Marth, others just like weird characters like the Ice Climbers. Why should we make Lucario into an uninteresting Mewtwo semi clone like in Brawl?

Project M is a love letter to Melee, but it is not Melee. Rather than discrediting the entire project based on one character you really hate (If we did that, most of us would hav eleft because of Jiggs), how about you give us a list of constructive criticism that we can look at? We want all the help we can get to balance the game, but of course, if you're not giving us your feedback, we can't listen to you.

Just take some time at home and play the game. Try Lucario out just to figure out how he works. Then fight him a few times with that newfound knowledge.

PS: It may be worth noting that the Project M timing is later for Meteor cancels and you may be inputing the cancels at the wrong time.

 

[Divinokage]

It's not just Lucario, I said it's all Brawl characters.. and I also said I was done with it.. I won't say anything more about it.

 

[bubbaking]

Back to Pit. He's not broken and neither are his arrows...

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

It's not just Lucario, I said it's all Brawl characters.. and I also said I was done with it.. I won't say anything more about it.

Why won't you say anything about why the other Brawl characters are "broken"?

 

[Divinokage]

Because I don't care and I won't play anymore.

 

[Krautrock]

There's that warrior spirit!

 

[ELI-mination]

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

 

[Divinokage]

That spirit will be used for something more fruitful instead of wasting my time.

 

[bubbaking]

Just curious: I thought you were saying earlier that you thought Ganon was Top Tier material in P:M. I may be mistaken, but that was what I heard. If that's the case, what changed your opinion?

 

[DrinkingFood]

Lol@kage trolling everyone
Because we all know he's not dumb
...right?

EDIT: wait so is Lucario the new IKE with all the people johning over him?
LUCARIO
hmm
Just doesn't roll off the tongue like IKE

 

[bubbaking]

Sure, it does. MARIO, WARIO.....LUCARIO! XD

 

[Shadic]

I think Kage needs to just take a few days off the game to cool down his head.

Getting all berserker angry and stuff.

As for complaining about "non-Melee" mechanics: The team feels like Demo 2.1 is a fairly strong example of P:M as a whole, but we know it's far from perfect. Well-worded criticisms of the game and specific character techniques are something that we pay attention to. Keep in mind that the game is still far from finished, and the demo benefits you (the players) by letting you get a taste of what is to come, and us (the PMBR) because it puts the game out to a vastly larger playerbase than ourselves alone. Just because we're not coming out saying "Yeah, that's changed already, stop complaining." doesn't mean that we're not tinkering with things behind the scenes.

Kage: While I do not agree with your recent attitude shift away from P:M, I can understand that you're frustrated with things. If you really must stop playing the game altogether, I implore you to try out any future releases that we have. The game will continue to improve, I promise you all that.

 

[Omni]

Spoiler

Eli and Hylian summed up my thoughts.

 

[stingers]

whats the opinion on bowser? he still seems a little lacking to me.

 

[GHNeko]

I think cmart is pretty good. Not bad but not OP. I believe he's reasonable. His armor can be obnoxious at times.

 

[bubbaking]

'Cause he is. Gets camped hard-core and the amount of damage one can get off a clean hit on him is worth way more than the damage he dishes out from trades and his own clean hits. Also, he can't recover after being meteored, so you know, he's free to the likes of.....what was his name again....oh yeah, Lucario.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

There's that warrior spirit!

It stings!

That aside, when Brawl was announced, everyone was excited because they wanted to see how the successor to Melee would improve the game, what they would add to it, and the like. We had certain expectations of the stuff we liked that would be expanded while many completely new options would be added to the mix.

Isn't that what P:M is supposed to be? Think of it as the successor you always wanted. It's not about emulating Melee, but perfecting the "spirit" of it.

 

[GHNeko]

Which so far, is doing a reasonable job of doing so.

 

[UltiMario]

I saw that Neko!

The Nostalgia also hit me like a rock ;-;

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I agree. We're still working out the silliest stuff while giving everything a chance to grow. New tactics usually come in time.