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Project M Social Thread

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Hylian

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anyone find link's ledgehop a little odd? it seems like either his double jump or his landing detection is screwy, because i can't seem to ledgehop waveland, he seems to do the same thing as ganon in melee where he has no landing lag

to see what i mean, try doing an empty ledge hop and try wavelanding back off
:phone:
I haven't tested it to make sure, but I cannot wavedash back off the ledge from a ledgehop with link. I can waveland on perfectly, but when you try to waveland back off you end up rolling backwards on the stage. If it's possible it's very frame specific.
 

Metà

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yeah, that was my concern. i can do it sometimes, but it's harder that in melee. i haven't really noticed this problem in other characters. in fact, it's actually easier to do it with ganon than in melee, which was damn near impossible

:phone:
 

Youngling

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It's honestly one of the more overrated problems out there. Nobody ever in the history of Smash is that frame-tight to the point that it would cause them to take longer than a half hour at the most to adjust to. Shield mechanics are a far bigger deal as they heavily affect characters capable of aggressive shield pressure (ie. spacies).
All of my lasers are high. doesn't matter how long I play. Years of melee SHL can't be fixed in 30 minutes.

:phone:
 

Hylian

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All of my lasers are high. doesn't matter how long I play. Years of melee SHL can't be fixed in 30 minutes.

:phone:
I've been going to melee tournaments since 2003 and I can SHL and DSHL with fox/falco perfectly lol I don't really think it's that hard to adjust to. It took me about 2 minutes to adjust. I also play 64/Melee/Brawl/P:M competitively and can switch from game to game without any problems.


It would be presumptuous of me to assume others can adjust as well but it is a different game and requires a different mindset and practice. I personally think it's much easier to laser in P:M(and I think everything is much easier tech wise, I can flatland infinite very well with fox in P:M with literally no practice but cannot in melee unless I'm actually practiced and playing the game every day).



I'm also not quite sure why shields are such a problem. I can tell they are different and it seems like it's easier to shieldgrab people, but that seems like it would lead to better spacing and more cross-ups more than anything. I wouldn't mind if they were changed to be more like melee shields though I just don't think it's game breaking.
 

Strong Badam

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Link's DJ is affected by SCD glitches at the moment, so it doesn't go as high as it's supposed to.
 

Archangel

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fox feels easier with the wifi safe code for some reason...felt a little off in the other codeset...maybe lightpress has something to do with it?

anyway, Even though he's easier it feels like something is off a little. Either people now go too far when shined, they do an odd half-trip, or fox doesn't go as far with waveshine....not sure which it is. The animations make it difficult for me to tell too I'm still not use to it. Also I think Fox is changed in size...maybe that has something to do with it...idk.

Falco just feels like he's off 10% in every direction but is still pretty close to melee falco.

Sheik...I'm having a hard time moving with her the same way I did Melee sheik. She's not as fluid.

This:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpNiClgJcjM#t=6m49s

^ that feels nearly impossible to do for some reason.
 

Rikana

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I'm sure you can still do that. There's even an easier more effective method too. Just vanish diagonally into the ledge while still on stage.

:phone:
 

Kink-Link5

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All of my lasers are high. doesn't matter how long I play. Years of melee SHL can't be fixed in 30 minutes.

:phone:
Agreed. Falco lasers are mad high since his already slow jump is so drastically effected. Fox lasers are either higher or easier depending on how decently you could pull them off in Melee.

Sheik...I'm having a hard time moving with her the same way I did Melee sheik. She's not as fluid.

This:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpNiClgJcjM#t=6m49s

^ that feels nearly impossible to do for some reason.
Also confirming on this end. Vanish does not carry momentum off ledges or over the ground from a dash for some reason.

I'm sure you can still do that. There's even an easier more effective method too. Just vanish diagonally into the ledge while still on stage.

:phone:
Not without an instant Vanish hitbox there isn't.
 

Stevo

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I would like to actually discuss things about Ike for a minute here, so bear with me for a minute. Keep in mind this is all my opinion. I could very well be wrong.

I think the range and relative safety of Ike's dash attack contributes a lot to the problems people are having with Ike. Lots of Ike's ridiculousness (like dair to f-smash for example) could be avoided and played around, but then Ike players will throw out a dash attack, hit you from half way across the stage, and throw your spacing game off. At the proper distance, it is hard to even punish Ike's dash attack on shield with many characters.

To me, Ike's dash attack does for him what Peach's dash attack does for her in melee, except on a larger scale. Peach is slow in melee and often you can just maneuver around her with ease, if not for her dash attack which she can throw out every now and then. (obviously there is a lot more to what makes peach pretty good in melee, but her dash attack really does help cover one of her flaws)

The difference here is Ike already has good range on his attacks (he plays somewhat like a ganon with a sword) and his dash attack extends that reach far beyond what most characters can reach. He is basically putting pressure on you from almost anywhere on the stage. This can even apply to being on platforms often because of his QD into jump Aerial or WD on platform.

Is his dash attack a broken move? No, it's not that great, but it interacts with the rest of his playstyle in a way that makes his other advantages easier to make happen. He already has quickdraw for long distance approaches and chases, but somehow I feel like I can react to him approaching with Quick Draw, just from personal experience and what I’ve seen on videos. In fact, if QD is the ONLY thing you have to worry about at a long distance, it becomes much easier to handle. Having to worry about dash attack in addition to QD makes things harder to handle. My one friend doesn’t dash attack with Ike and it became so much easier. Not really because either one on their own (dash attack or QD) are hard to handle, but because the variety makes it more difficult.

So for these reasons, the change I would suggest for Ike, if we change anything at all, would be a reworking of his dash attack. Ike should, at the moment, technically lose to projectile users and anyone who can keep him in his shield. Although, I again think his dash attack helps handle projectile users to a certain degree.

I would also like to point out that it could end up that after months or years of practice fighting against Ike, the metagame might develop to a point where we are so used to what Ike can do that we can handle these things better. That is why I am not sure he really needs any adjustments. It is difficult to tell right now. I am simply giving a suggestion as to what I would change if a change was seen as needed.

Ike has flaws that people like Umbreon have pointed out before, and maybe these flaws will be more easily exploitable down the road.
 

Archangel

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Reverse grab after UpB but before special fall, which almost everyone can do.
Not what I mean. I know everyone can reverse ledge grab. Why can I stand on a battlefield platform with Zelda and upB to a ledge and then appear there? That makes no goddamn sense....but it's funny.
 

Stevo

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It sounds like you want to make Ike's approach predictable so you can handle his options more easily?
well, QD approach has more than one thing you can do out of it, so it still has some options. I just think the dash attack option covers some additional situations that perhaps forces you into playing Ike's game.

but like I said, I am just bringing this up, I am not convinced myself it needs a change.
 

Youngling

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I've been going to melee tournaments since 2003 and I can SHL and DSHL with fox/falco perfectly lol I don't really think it's that hard to adjust to. It took me about 2 minutes to adjust. I also play 64/Melee/Brawl/P:M competitively and can switch from game to game without any problems.


It would be presumptuous of me to assume others can adjust as well but it is a different game and requires a different mindset and practice. I personally think it's much easier to laser in P:M(and I think everything is much easier tech wise, I can flatland infinite very well with fox in P:M with literally no practice but cannot in melee unless I'm actually practiced and playing the game every day).
I agree with you that a lot of tech is easier. For example, I can control stick double shine consistently with Falco in melee, but anything more than 2 I can't do. I can hit 3+ shines with ease in PM.

Honestly the only thing that's harder is SHL. Not harder, just different than melee. I dropped Falco in PM because it takes me way too long to adjust between SHL timings.

I agree, it is different for everyone.

:phone:
 

cannedbread

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you can still do the edge fake vanish momentum trick thingy, the timing is really strict though. i never tried it on melee for comparison, but you still have to be fast.

@falco's gun discussion
didn't they sort of nerf his lasers? i remember reading something about lasers and the apex of his jump or something. it's on the official website though i'm too lazy to look it up.
 

Hylian

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o.O can you guys really not do the shiek thing? Haha I didn't that know that was different at all, it's worked for me whenever I play shiek(which isn't much admittedly and shino stalling does feel different).

It's definitely possible.
 

Metà

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i think melee players who were more used to adjusting their laser height for specific match-ups should have no problem lasering in p:m. you just have to alter the timing a little bit, which, even in melee, should be a conscious effort.

i don't laser too high when i play pm falco, because after playing him a few times i learned to delay my lasers. if and when it becomes exactly like melee's shl, i'll just laser by melee timing. easy

:phone:
 

@TKbreezy

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where's your gameplay at? I doubt you're hot ****
how I play has nothing to do with the fact that uploading 4 stocks instead of uploading matches where the opponent at least looks like he knows what game he is playing would have been a better choice. but what do I know. I only play this game like once a week.

Shall I upload one of the matches where I 4-stocked Thirst's Lucas? :troll:
^obvious proof of 1 day a week gameplay. I guess I'll fool around with it a little more than just tuesday to shut that noise up.
 

Rikana

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Anyways, just tested the upb off ledge with Sheik. I can definitely tell you that it works.
 

DrinkingFood

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THANK IKE MY WII ISN'T DEAD
Apparently just the cord somehow fried.
I think IKE overcame the power of the electrical surge and protected the wii.
 

metroid1117

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THANK IKE MY WII ISN'T DEAD
Apparently just the cord somehow fried.
I think IKE overcame the power of the electrical surge and protected the wii.
That's good news, I'm glad you didn't have to pay for a replacement Wii.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I got around to testing NAir -> DACUS with Ganon, and it is a true combo at very low percents with no DI. On one hand, the DACUS might connect more often in a real match because opponents may DI up and in from expecting a FAir. On the other hand, the second hitbox of NAir is so hard to land that this probably has no use at all. Still, it was cool seeing Ganon do 65% on D3 with NAir -> DACUS (both hits of USmash connecting) and 68% on Bowser with DAir -> NAir -> DACUS (only 1st hit of USmash connecting)

The video is here, in case anyone's curious.
 

DrinkingFood

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I borrowed one from a friend to test it. I tried waiting a few days but the cord never started working again- I'm guessing it's just ruined, but that's no biggie.
 

metroid1117

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Hey guys, I'm streaming with Tink and Rat at Vro's place!

EDIT: The stream isn't working anymore, we'll upload all the videos instead. Kels, Vro, Tink, Rat, Big C, DSF, and I are playing.
 

DMG

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So quick question. I know it maybe isn't a fair comparison, but uh why is Ike's Fsmash as strong or stronger than DK punch? In fact it looks like it also kills sooner or the same as a non sweetspot Bowser Fsmash (hitting with the tip of his head instead of his full body hitting you, the natural flight path is more diagonal. Ike's Fsmash oddly sends you more horizontally at the tip.) Was testing it on FD so obv different stages and boundaries could impact that, it just feels dirty and inappropriately strong.
 

cannedbread

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part of me wants to agree with you and would also ask why can it be comboed into as well as being super duper strong.

the other part of me doesn't want to complain about ike anymore because i don't think he'll be changed in the final build and our complaints will be for naught.

i'm so conflicted

edit: the other other part of me is happy that metroid's stream didn't work so now i can watch them, as my phone doesn't support those streaming sites like justintv/twitchtv and the like

the other other other part of me is sad that metroid is experiencing technical difficulties with his stream, because technical problems are a *****

i'm even more conflicted
 
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