Project M Social Thread

[`dazrin]

^thats what i thought, lololol

 

[ELI-mination]

There are some new matches uploaded to our channel on youtube if people wanna start checking them out and subscribe.
http://www.youtube.com/user/FreeSaltines

Because you know we ****.

 

[GP&B]

Brought P:M to Advent IX. Most people were already familiar with it and it got positive reception in general which is always nice.

 

[leelue]

Those matches today were too good.

 

[Svetsunov]

Just a quick question but does Marios Nair work like Docs did in melee?(more damage the longer its out) or is it a normal sex kick?

 

[Strong Badam]

It's Melee Mario's nair.

 

[Svetsunov]

awwww,

Alright, thanks though.

EDIT: Is there a competitive stage list somewhere? I'm hosting a small LAN tourney with some friends and I can't seem to find one anywhere.

 

[MaxThunder]

People are still discussing that, i guess... you should try putting together your own...

 

[Svetsunov]

Well I suppose since I'm hosting a small tournament I guess i'll post what I think so far:

NEUTURAL
Battlefield
Final Destination
Dream Land 64
Fountain of Dreams
Warioware
Smashville
Yoshis Island(Brawl)
Yoshis Story(Melee)

COUNTERPICK
Metal Cavern
Draculas Castle
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium 2
Pokemon Stadium
Green Hill Zone


I'm sure I forgot a stage or two... but this is kinda what I think so far. Any thoughts on this matter?

Also I'm extremely Iffy on SSE Jungle: It seems like it'd be an awesome map for doubles but I really dont like it for singles.

 

[`dazrin]

Yoshi's island (brawl) is not neutral. Wario Ware probably isn't either.. I'm on the fence about WW. Green Hill Zone should be neutral imo

but hell its your tournament, do what you want.

In the old melee days, the TO made the rules so it's only natural that p:m should be done the same way until a set standard becomes agreed upon by a majority of the players.

 

[Archangel]

4427-7211-0813

I'm online...who wants some?

 

[Svetsunov]

Yoshi's island (brawl) is not neutral. Wario Ware probably isn't either.. I'm on the fence about WW. Green Hill Zone should be neutral imo

but hell its your tournament, do what you want.

In the old melee days, the TO made the rules so it's only natural that p:m should be done the same way until a set standard becomes agreed upon by a majority of the players.

I don't see much of a problem with Wario Ware, thought it wouldnt suprise me if im missing something big. You're probably right about YI... admittedly I haven't played too much of it.

I'm extremely unsure about Green Hill Zone but I can't put my finger on what it is.
^EDIT: It's the horizontal walls that bothers me. They feel extremely off compared to other neutrals.

And yeah, it is my tourney but frankly I don't have as much knowledge about stages as most of the people here probably do... so I'd like some higher level input I guess.

 

[Archangel]

Any stage with a long wall for sides I see as an Ike Counterpick already...but the stages still feel more neutral as a whole that I don't have many complaints.

 

[`dazrin]

yeah, wario ware SEEMS like it's fine... try it out in your tournament and see how it goes.
Green hill is very similar to smashville, its probably more neutral than dreamland 64 imo.

I'm just giving my opinion lol

your tournament- your call.

 

[Strong Badam]

Why is Stadium 2 a CP and not a Neutral?

 

[Sethlon]

Are you aware that you have an even number of stages for starters? With eight starters, you won't be able to use the striking system, since that requires both players strike the same number of stages.

Yoshi's Island (Brawl) should be counterpick imo. The lip has a tilt, making edgeguard spacing different, the actual stage is uneven (which screws up some spacings/combos), the platform changes its angle and can get in the way, and the support ghosts come randomly (unlike melee's randal). There's no where on YI:Brawl that you can play your standard game if you're not used to that specific stage.

WarioWare could be neutral IMO. Only reason I would say counterpick is because of the stacked platforms; they make it so people who can cover things above them like Ike/charizard can combo significantly better.

Frigate should be banned IMO. Not having a lip on the right side can really screw some characters over in a game like P:M where recovering isn't brawl level of safety.

Rumble Falls: M, Temple: M, and Kongo64 should also be legal. Unless you're just cutting down stages to make selection easier, I don't see any reason why they should be banned.

 

[`dazrin]

OH yeah. Stadium 2 is TOTTALLKLyyyy neutral. Forgot about that.

 

[exxilee]

Ike is really really strong, you need to counter him with someone who have a big range.

 

[9Kplus1]

Ike sucks.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Ike is Ganon with a sword. He sacrifices his strength for increased range, and some faster attacks. He sacrifices his Utilt for one that can actually be used, and his Warlock Punch is now an Fsmash. Also, his recovery's better when you're closer to the stage.

 

[Svetsunov]

Are you aware that you have an even number of stages for starters? With eight starters, you won't be able to use the striking system, since that requires both players strike the same number of stages.

Yoshi's Island (Brawl) should be counterpick imo. The lip has a tilt, making edgeguard spacing different, the actual stage is uneven (which screws up some spacings/combos), the platform changes its angle and can get in the way, and the support ghosts come randomly (unlike melee's randal). There's no where on YI:Brawl that you can play your standard game if you're not used to that specific stage.

WarioWare could be neutral IMO. Only reason I would say counterpick is because of the stacked platforms; they make it so people who can cover things above them like Ike/charizard can combo significantly better.

Frigate should be banned IMO. Not having a lip on the right side can really screw some characters over in a game like P:M where recovering isn't brawl level of safety.

Rumble Falls: M, Temple: M, and Kongo64 should also be legal. Unless you're just cutting down stages to make selection easier, I don't see any reason why they should be banned.

Oh wow I completely forgot about stage striking >.> shouldn't do this when its super late.

Completely forgot about Rumble Falls and Temple too...


NEUTURAL
Battlefield
Final Destination
Dream Land 64
Fountain of Dreams
Warioware
Smashville
Yoshis Story(Melee)
Pokemon Stadium 2

COUNTERPICK
Metal Cavern
Draculas Castle
Halberd
Yoshis Island(Brawl)
Pokemon Stadium
Green Hill Zone

I do realize this time that there are an even number of stages on neuturals still, i'm just not quite sure which one to move there. I suppose I could move over green hill zone.

I'm not too sure about where Temple M and Rumble Falls M should go... I think Temple is definitely a counterpick. I'm not really sure about RF, but i'm leaning towards CP I guess.

 

[9Kplus1]

Ike is Ganon with a sword. He sacrifices his strength for increased range, and some faster attacks. He sacrifices his Utilt for one that can actually be used, and his Warlock Punch is now an Fsmash. Also, his recovery's better when you're closer to the stage.

I was 100% certain we've already established that Ganon / Ike is a horrible comparison. The two may seem to be similar, but are vastly different characters. Implying that Ike is similar in any way to Ganon is like referring to Fox and Falco as 1:1 clones.

 

[-Jumpman-]

I was 100% certain we've already established that Ganon / Ike is a horrible comparison. The two may seem to be similar, but are vastly different characters. Implying that Ike is similar in any way to Ganon is like referring to Fox and Falco as 1:1 clones.

You're funny lol. You say comparing the two isn't justified, then use an analogy that's based on inequality, and thus comparison.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I was 100% certain that me and other Melee Ganon mains had established it was an obvious comparison, because we can take each character, play them the same way, and do just as well. Sometimes even better with Ike.

I honestly don't get how you can even begin to think it's a bad comparison.

 

[9Kplus1]

You're funny lol. You say comparing the two isn't justified, then use an analogy that's based on inequality, and thus comparison.

I honestly don't get how you can even begin to think it's a bad comparison.

Sorry, I guess that, aside from the entirely different movesets and available playstyles, Ganon and Ike are very similar characters.

 

[leelue]

Honestly, besides QD, I agree with Raphael.

Three aerials are analogous, two tilts, down smash is similar when both parts are used, the other two smashes are unwieldy (but you can boost forward and use Up smash for both), a forward recovery move and an upward recovery move that are about as hard to intercept (kinda). It's not perfect, but he's not crazy for saying so.




Anyway
What are the plans for sonic's aerial forward b oddities? Is some form of the "drop like a rock" mode planned to stay? Is the team aware that the move still shoots you downward w/o a first use on occasion? Are they aware that sometimes it doesn't shoot you downwards, even when you've used it once?

I like incorporating it into my options a whole lot, and I would be upset to see it go. But like many other things about sonic, it is very inconsistent.

 

[Kati]

Frigate should be banned IMO. Not having a lip on the right side can really screw some characters over in a game like P:M where recovering isn't brawl level of safety.

Someone managed to give the platform on the right proper collision data (grabable ledge) and I gave it a ceiling/lip, would this help?


*edit*

But that reminds me... I've noticed that characters rebound off of ceilings and instantly reach a much higher velocity than before they impacted with it. It makes for wonderful ko's when the frigate platform is at its highest... but it seems unnaturally fast.

 

[b2j135]

So what's the current discussion about?
Banned levels?
I'd say Port Town Aero Dive and Norfair for sure firstly, or make them how they were in B+

 

[Svetsunov]

So what's the current discussion about?
Banned levels?
I'd say Port Town Aero Dive and Norfair for sure firstly, or make them how they were in B+

I'm throwing a small tournament for some of the good Smash players in my school district and since there isnt an official stage list, i need help coming up with one that's good.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Sorry, I guess that, aside from the entirely different movesets and available playstyles, Ganon and Ike are very similar characters.

Well, given that they have almost identical movesets and similar playstyles, you're right, they are very similar characters. Let's compare things

Fair - Works almost the same for each character. Ike's is larger and slightly slower, Ganon's has a more power. The are used in the same fashion both onstage and for edgeguarding.

Bair - We a similar comparison. Here they have a more similar strength, Ike's is slightly faster and has more range. The hitbox from Ganon's stays out longer, however. They're used very similarly onstage, and for edgeguarding.

Uair/Nair - Ganon's Uair hits in the same range as Ike's Nair, meaning they can both be used well for comboing. The knockback from Ike's Nair helps more with comboing, while Ganon's Uair is faster and is better for edgeguarding. In a combo, though, they fulfill practically the same purpose.

Ftilt - These almost identical. Ike's is just faster and has more range. Sure, Ganon can angle his, but now that he can't hit people on platforms with it there's not much point. Angled downward, it's a pretty good edgeguard on both characters. Oh, and did I mention they're used in exactly the same way? Because they are.

Utilt - Ike actually has one. It plays a similar role in combos to Ganon's up-anlged Ftilt from Melee (because his PM one is useless). It can even hit people on platforms.

Dair - Given that these are both Meteors, they're similar. Like almost all of Ganon's attacks, his is more powerful. It also covers his entire body, which is useful. Ike's has more range below him, though.

Jab - While Ike's takes longer, they both fulfill the same purpose on each character. It's a fast attack that hits directly in front of you and has good knockback. Ganon's is better because it can't be interrupted, but other than that, they're almost the same move.

Fmash / Warlock Punch - These are almost the same move. One just has shorter startup and much larger range, so is usable. The other takes way too long to start up and has almost no range, so never gets used.

SideB- Their sideB moves are very different. Ike's gives him a very fast movement option, allowing him to rival Ganon's speed boost from landdashing, which doesn't seem to affect Ike as much. Ganon can pull off a pretty awesome chain grab with his sideB. Otherwise it just guarantees a follow up, much like Ganon's regular grab Ike can, however, JC grab from his sideB. While this isn't as good, it allows the move to function in a similar way to the sideB, and guarantees a follow up.

In terms of recovery, Ganon's is better if you're far off stage, but Ike's QD walljump allows him to recover from further than you'd think he could. Their upBs work pretty similar when recovering, but Ike's lets you recover from further down and is easier to damage them with (and this damage could keep them from grabbing the edge). On the downside, it's a lot easier to hit Ike during it. However, unless your opponent is also about to die and wants to take you with him, this shouldn't be an issue.

Also, Ganon and Ike move at very similar speeds, have similar jump heights, etc. They even both have an extremely high jump from the ledge. Ganon's landdashing and platformdashing help him out slightly more than Ike's do, but smart use of Ike's QD gives him much more speed and flexibility in movement.

 

[genkaku]

In my opinion FD shouldn't be a neutral in PM. It's fine in melee but there are better alternatives in PM.
So if I were making your list it would look something like:

NEUTURAL
Battlefield
Dream Land 64
Smashville
Yoshis Story
Pokemon Stadium 2
Fountain of Dreams
Warioware (I don't like this in here, but you need the odd number and with 7 neutrals it's fine)

COUNTERPICK
Final Destination (it's more neutral than the others but has a big enough effect on enough MUs and playstyles in comparison to the above 7)
Metal Cavern
Draculas Castle (it's big enough to consider banning, but I would try it out just to see)
Halberd
Yoshis Island
Pokemon Stadium
Green Hill Zone
Temple
Rumble Falls (similar to Draculas, and there's definitely too much room to be a neutral)

I would also allow for 2 stage bans rather than the normal 1 just because there are enough stages with similar properties.

 

[NeoZ]

Why are people writing neutral as neutural?
And "Ike=Ganon with a sword" is back?

 

[FireBall Stars]

Posted some videos today featuring, mario, sonic, luigi, ness, lucas, falcon, ganon, lucario and ike.

http://www.youtube.com/user/StarlingFireBall

take a look if you want.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Why are people writing neutral as neutural?
And "Ike=Ganon with a sword" is back?

I don't think the discussion has happened before. Unless it happened when I wasn't here, which would have meant it was before demo2 released.

Given the difficulty people are having deciding on starters/CPs, why don't we just get rid of the difference altogether? It's not like it's really needed with stage striking.

 

[Revven]

Aero Dive and Norfair for sure firstly, or make them how they were in B+

Have you even played Port Town...? The sentence above that you wrote makes it seem like you haven't.

Port Town in Demo 2 currently has the following done to it:

Weaker cars (you don't die from them at 60% like in vBawrl for example)
Weaker giant wall
Grabbable edges

We've done at least a few things to stages with hazards on them, you guys should really try to play on each stage that isn't just something like BF or FD.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I'm going to have to try Port Town now. I've tried every stage that looked like it had been changed, and a few others just to see if they'd been changed in any way. Port Town wasn't one of those, though.

Do you guys think Port Town could be used as a CP now?

 

[Xebenkeck]

Smashville
Battlefield
Pokemon Stadium 2
Fountain of Dreams
Green Hill Zone

Are the stages I would have as the starters.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

You're still using FoD? With all the stages in PM, I'd think you'd want a starter that doesn't have hazards. Sure, the platforms don't harm you, but they do a pretty good job placing you in the path of an attack. The PM ones are on a timer, which is nice, but I don't think anyone has had a chance to memorize all 1 minute 40 seconds of it yet,

 

[`dazrin]

Oh wow I completely forgot about stage striking >.> shouldn't do this when its super late.

Completely forgot about Rumble Falls and Temple too...


NEUTURAL
Battlefield
Final Destination
Dream Land 64
Fountain of Dreams
Warioware
Smashville
Yoshis Story(Melee)
Pokemon Stadium 2

COUNTERPICK
Metal Cavern
Draculas Castle
Halberd
Yoshis Island(Brawl)
Pokemon Stadium
Green Hill Zone

I do realize this time that there are an even number of stages on neuturals still, i'm just not quite sure which one to move there. I suppose I could move over green hill zone.

I'm not too sure about where Temple M and Rumble Falls M should go... I think Temple is definitely a counterpick. I'm not really sure about RF, but i'm leaning towards CP I guess.

Put RF in CP. It's too big. I would put Dreamland64 in CP too, because of wind and how big it is, but it's up to you.

 

[curry9186]

I have a bug report. I was recovering with Falco on WarioWare against a Mario who caped me. I expected to die like usual, but I grabbed the ledge backwards, and by that I mean I was in the ledgegrab animation, but Falco was facing the other direction with his back to the stage and his hand grabbing thin air. I have a picture of it if you want to see.