Project M Social Thread

[standardtoaster]

Streaming now! http://www.twitch.tv/standardtoaster

 

[Octorox]

To add to the Tink and Kirby nair discussion (although I seem to be a bit late now)

My qualm with Tink's nair is purely aesthetic, but its pretty significant to the point that I would say it looks jarring and unprofessional. True, many animations in Smash enlarge bones, but generally it's done carefully and keeping in mind animation principles like squash and stretch and pushing key poses. Heres what I think:


1.) his proportions make him appear as if the last thing he'd do is kick, in fact, his arms are longer than his legs and his sword is even longer. The move seems unfitting of the character. it would be like giving Yoshi a punch.
2.) The length of time to which Tink's leg is extended looks odd. Most attacks that enlarge limbs do it only for a few frames, at the key pose of an animation. Also, most of the time the body part being enlarged is already large to begin with, and the bone enlargement is just kind of used to "push" the pose.
3.) This new nair is Toon Links only move that enlarges a limb, and it's his only kick. Its just seems out of place in the context of his moveset, while it integrated more naturally into YLs moveset.

While I am a fan of his Brawl nair with some modifications, if that doesn't pass muster in practice, I'd propose a new "sex stab" nair, I have some ideas about how it might look which I could potentially mock up.

As for Kirby, while I will mourn the loss of his signature "tilt and tumble" nair, I don't really find the 64 nair inherently problematic. I just think the animation looks a bit stiff, rigid and angular compared to Kirby's fluid and stretchy Brawl animations. A simple touch up from someone like SilentD00M might help.

 

[phurgawtin]

"sex stab"

lingering disjointed hitbox, sounds really useful for edgeguarding.

 

[Stunts]

So yeah, I heard in Snipe's stream that they are changing the knife.

About changing Snake's fsmash, don't.
I love the knife animation and hacving the most knockback being from the uncharged iteration gives the move an unorthadox but strategic approach. And it isn't always the best option, not even for KOs.

From what I've seen on the streams, the charged knife makes the opponent open for comboes (though the hitbox looked short and wacky, I would assume that would be fixed) Don't have it be like everyone else's Snake himself is a more unique fighter and the stun knife made me more appealed to him

Spoiler

I'd might actually play as him for once

It's one thing that the move itself is buggy (and they could just fix it) but changing the move entirely and lengthening production time because you all feel it doesn't look right just bothers me.

 

[Xebenkeck]

^^^ trust me changing animations does not take that long, if you want a quick change it takes like 10 minutes, and if you want to take your time and make it look polished it may take about 1-2 hours at most. Its changing hitboxes and KB to fit that animation, that takes a while and thats only because hex is stupid. lol. They could say snakes fsmash has range of 5 and does 24 damage, but no snake fsmash has a range of 2A345KJDI234 and does 5A456H1 damage.

So simply tweaking a animation wouldn't really slow down production time that much.



EDIT: JOE your sigs are awesome lol. It's definatly rabbit season though

 

[JOE!]

Sex kick is way better for edgeguarding.

and shine spike is better, I vote to go the clearly logical route and say **** the sex kick and make nair shine

 

[Shadic]

Making professional-quality animations takes a heck of a lot longer than adjusting hitbox data.

 

[DVDV28]

and shine spike is better, I vote to go the clearly logical route and say **** the sex kick and make nair shine

Someone should totally do this

 

[Deleted member]

I was disappointed when I saw Tink's Brawl nair gone, but its not as good as Y. Link's from Melee.

I wish Tink was very unique and unlike Link so the game could feel new and fresh, but not so much that he sucks.


On a seperate note,

I don't think you guys can't make Tink good at all if you base him on Young Link from Melee.

I don't see Tink ever being a good character unless he is developed without influences from Tink and Y. Link. A more original and inspired creation unbound by the constraints of ****ty Y Link.

I'd rather see a very new type of Toon Link where he is unlike vBrawl Tink and Y. Link at all and is good than a watered down mix of both.

.02$

 

[Cero]

Theory craft time!

If every character in P:M had a shine, who would be the best character?

Oh, and you can pick from any of the three spacies' shines.

I think Captain Falcon with Falco's shine would be pretty good.

Shine to knee combos would be so legit.

EDIT: ZSS with Falco's shine. Shine to up-B.

Ivysaur with Wolf's shine. Shine to sweetspotted up-B.

 

[Rikana]

Shine to rest?

 

[Xebenkeck]

Making professional-quality animations takes a heck of a lot longer than adjusting hitbox data.

Maybe so, because all you are really doing is changing a value, but its understanding hex and what values are relative to each other is the headache. To someone like you who can probably look at hex values and know generally what it means it most likely is faster.

Still animations dont take that long, UNLESS they are made completely from scratch and do not use others as a base. But considering there are over 3600 animations in Brawl, usually there is something close to what you need, maybe DK climbing a ladder lol.

Although I imagine yoshi utilt was built from scratch, just one that came to mind.

 

[Stevo]

shine to warlock punch?

 

[Mono.]

Shine to any of Ike's smashes.

 

[Juushichi]

Shine to any of Sheik's amazing aerials, tilts or grab.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Pillaring with Ganondorf.
WoP to shine spike.
Waveshine into mines.
It's honestly hard to tell what's most OP.

 

[Spoon~]

I think waveshine to fox usmash would be most OP...oh wait

 

[GHNeko]

Fox Shine on Marth.

Shine grab.

 

[Stevo]

that would make for a good april fools release of project M

everyone has a shine

 

[MonkUnit]

And too much work for such a stupid joke.

 

[Rikana]

SHINE TO NEUTRAL SMASH.

69.

 

[PEEF!]

Neutral smash into doin da wop into low tilt

 

[Haloedhero]

Maybe so, because all you are really doing is changing a value, but its understanding hex and what values are relative to each other is the headache. To someone like you who can probably look at hex values and know generally what it means it most likely is faster.

You only need a really rudimentary knowledge of hex to use PSA for hitbox editing. I mean, there are even web based calculators for converting hex if you don't understand it.

Animations are much harder. Sure, you can whip up an animation in a couple of hours, but there's a reason most animation hacks out there aren't very good: they're really hard. Seriously, even a rushed, bad animation that takes like 2 hours to complete takes WAY longer than editing the properties of a hitbox in PSA.

However, on topic, I haven't had a chance to look at Snake's knife smash yet, but I'm all for the idea as long as the animation is good. I'll miss the rocket launcher, but I like the idea of a regular attack with no charge and a stunning attack on charge. That sounds awesome and refreshingly unique.

As far as Nairs go, I don't mind Tink's sex kick, since his Brawl Nair is so fast and wouldn't really look right with sex kick properties.

I'm much more confused by Kirby's Nair change. I always thought his `64 Nair was ugly, even in the N64 days, and I was really surprised to see it reappear in P:M. His Nair in Brawl had a long enough attack animation that you could probably give it the same size hitbox and the same sex kick properties as the new one, so the change seems largely aesthetic, but why change to an uglier, older animation?

(Oh, and I don't mean the animation is ugly as in "you guys did a bad job on it." I just think it's an ugly move, if that wasn't clear.)

 

[Akuma2120]

Can someone tell me what pillaring is? People say they use it with Falco

 

[Rikana]

Its fox or falco. Its basically any aerial to shine shield pressure. Don't mistaken it only for dair to shine with Falco.

 

[Jonny Westside]

So has the BR decided on the fate of Snake's Nikita missile? Some of us non BR members back on smashmods complained that its priority was poopie and could be swatted out of the by something as weak as a yawn from Puff. I recall someone suggesting that Snake should be able to cancel control over Nikita, but have it continue its path/trajectory by pressing B since holding R or L makes it drop like a rock. If this isn't possible, I'm wondering if you guys are gonna make it very strong with less to moderate priority or weak with overwhelming priority?

 

[Revven]

We are not really open to sharing much on Side B. We hope to show something soon but for now, just know that the wheels are set in motion.

 

[hotdogturtle]

Still animations dont take that long, UNLESS they are made completely from scratch and do not use others as a base.

I think a lot of them were...

 

[PEEF!]

Snakes SideB is going to shoot a slow, rocket powered knife.

 

[Strong Badam]

so will DK's

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I'm much more confused by Kirby's Nair change. I always thought his `64 Nair was ugly, even in the N64 days, and I was really surprised to see it reappear in P:M. His Nair in Brawl had a long enough attack animation that you could probably give it the same size hitbox and the same sex kick properties as the new one, so the change seems largely aesthetic, but why change to an uglier, older animation?

(Oh, and I don't mean the animation is ugly as in "you guys did a bad job on it." I just think it's an ugly move, if that wasn't clear.)

I completely agree with this, the previous sex kick animation looked better and I miss his old nair. Also give Tink his Nair back plz ;O

 

[Strong Badam]

no way to give brawl nair the range and utility of n64 nair.
think about utility more than aesthetics please. this IS a competitive game, you know.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Make Kirby's NAir fire lasers in all directions.

There Brawl NAir is good now.

 

[Deleted member]

I was under the impression that Kirby's 64 Nair was ugly because the technology at the time created more primitive videogames.

I perceived his ugly nair as nintendo's inability to create nice aesthetics with N64 models

Gotta say that Kirby's old nair in PM looked nice though. Fitting to Kirby

 

[phurgawtin]

i'm in extreme favor of keeping kirby's n64 nair.

the melee nair was arguably kirby's worst move, followed by his dash attack, which brawl did a successful job of replacing. good riddance.

plus, anyone familiar with 64 kirby gets to re-live a bit of nostalgia while making use of yet another tool added to kirby's edge guarding game

 

[Supreme Dirt]

When you aid 64 Kirby I was confused for like a full minute.

Because I immediately wondered where in Crystal Shards did he do something even vaguely like that?

And then I realized.

I was dumb.

 

[Jonny Westside]

I have a question regarding the moveset changes you guys have made to fox, falco, kirby etc. Did you implement these changes to cater to the hardcore melee fans? Or are they just some much needed revamps for a better metagame(to emulate melee)

 

[9Kplus1]

You should keep it noted that the goal of P:M is to draw players to a good game. While a good chunk of Brawl's physics are fantastic, a lot of characters have silly / bad movesets, hitboxes and frame data far off from Melee's (overall changing the use of the move and part of the character by extent), as well as natural traits -- for example, Lucario's aura system, Meta Knight, and Ganondorf's run. Changing those is inevitable in any hack heavily influenced by a game other than Brawl.

 

[Jonny Westside]

In what way have Fox and Falco changed? Neither boast any noticeable (outside of the already known physics differences (aesthetics excluded)) differences from what they are in Melee. Kirby was given his N64 Nair back because Melee Kirby's Nair sucked noodles. Lots of characters received moveset changes due to the lack of utility in one area.

...or are you referring to the Brawl --> Melee changes? If that was the case, then you should keep it noted that the goal of P:M is to draw players to a good game. While a good chunk of Brawl's physics are fantastic, a lot of characters have silly / bad movesets and traits -- for example, Lucario's aura system, Meta Knight's design, and Ganondorf's run. Changing those is inevitable in any hack influenced by Melee.

Ah. Fox's Utilt and Bair received slight animation changes for w/e reason. Falco was reverted back to a fox clone, having the same basic moveset with different properties. But i see what you mean about some characters having bad/sily movesets. I guess that explains Falco eh? lol Atleast you guys kept his jab >.<

 

[MonkUnit]

9kplus1, he was referring to Fox / Falco moveset changes from Brawl -> PM. Such as Fox / Falco bair and fsmash.