Revven
FrankerZ
It's not an intentional change, it's just not there yet because Brawl is dumb.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
- Start date
- Status
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
Well to me she's OP and I'm not the only one. She's got devastating aerials as good as Ganondorf's which have ridiculous hitboxes that can be performed twice in one short hop(Fair, Bair) with BS knockback, her range is just unreal she can out camp anyone and as for close quarters combat, her smash attacks have little end lag and are spammable. Idk I'm just upset by how she dominates at this point lol It's up to the point where it's not even fun. What's new about her anyways?
Revven
FrankerZ
It's Zelda... and she's supposed to be able to compete against Fox.
Do you want balance or do you want her to suck?
9Kplus1
Smash Master
Don't know if you're trolling, but...
Zelda's Dair can be challenged; her Uair has stupid high start-up and doesn't gimp
Shield ---> Aerial OoS / WD OoS or just bait and punish. GG kicks
It's called "spacing", "start-up lag" and "SDI", it's not as if Zelda is holding a sword.
Just attack through Din's
Stop playing the demo and start watching streams for details on what's 'new' about her. Zelda is solid, but definitely not OP.
That all being said, I think it does raise a good question, what should zelda be. A powerful one hitter, a combo machine, a hit and run character, time out character, offensive, defensive, campy, etc.
Personally i feel zelda should be the most defensive character in the game, it how she was designed(poorly) by sakurai. In order for her to be that way though, i think both her Din's fire and Nayru's love needs to be looked at harder.
If she were to be made truly defensive she would have to be able to defend against spam, yet be able to force approach, i feel she can do neither right now, judgeiing by the streams, she seems best suited as a offensive character.
I think her NL should work similar to Jades glow works in MK9, for those who have played. It gives jade roughly 2-3 seconds of full immunity to projectile attacks yet she can still operate normally. I would scrap the reflective properties of NL, conisidering that it A, it isn't canon at all, and B its too laggy and useless to be a reflector, it usually gets you punished. I'd change it so that the Blue diamond appears around Zelda for 2-3 secs, nullifying any projectile that hits her. The start up should be near instant, and she can perform any action during the effect, meaning she can walk, jump, wavedash, grab, attack etc. while being immune to projectiles. This would allow her not to be camped.
Secondly she would need a projectile that forces a approach. Currently Din's Fire in most to all versions so far haven't been able to do that, even the one now isn't a forced approach projectile, it is a trap and set up projectile. She needs something lazer esc to force approach. I would suggest making her side B a Pk Thunder rip off completely, in that she has full control over it, and it explodes on contact, or release. Just make it stupid fast, and little to no cooldown or start-up. Combine this with activating NL, and she is invulnerable to the opponents projectiles while she control her very good one. Thus forcing a approach.
Lastly if this were done she shouldn't be able to combo, all her smashes tilts etc, should be killers and GTFO moves.
All this combined would make her a defensive character through and through, not the mix she is currently.
Thoughts?
heres a vid of Jade using Glow, anytime she is green she is immune to projectiles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTKUtZgzmwc
Personally i feel zelda should be the most defensive character in the game, it how she was designed(poorly) by sakurai. In order for her to be that way though, i think both her Din's fire and Nayru's love needs to be looked at harder.
If she were to be made truly defensive she would have to be able to defend against spam, yet be able to force approach, i feel she can do neither right now, judgeiing by the streams, she seems best suited as a offensive character.
I think her NL should work similar to Jades glow works in MK9, for those who have played. It gives jade roughly 2-3 seconds of full immunity to projectile attacks yet she can still operate normally. I would scrap the reflective properties of NL, conisidering that it A, it isn't canon at all, and B its too laggy and useless to be a reflector, it usually gets you punished. I'd change it so that the Blue diamond appears around Zelda for 2-3 secs, nullifying any projectile that hits her. The start up should be near instant, and she can perform any action during the effect, meaning she can walk, jump, wavedash, grab, attack etc. while being immune to projectiles. This would allow her not to be camped.
Secondly she would need a projectile that forces a approach. Currently Din's Fire in most to all versions so far haven't been able to do that, even the one now isn't a forced approach projectile, it is a trap and set up projectile. She needs something lazer esc to force approach. I would suggest making her side B a Pk Thunder rip off completely, in that she has full control over it, and it explodes on contact, or release. Just make it stupid fast, and little to no cooldown or start-up. Combine this with activating NL, and she is invulnerable to the opponents projectiles while she control her very good one. Thus forcing a approach.
Lastly if this were done she shouldn't be able to combo, all her smashes tilts etc, should be killers and GTFO moves.
All this combined would make her a defensive character through and through, not the mix she is currently.
Thoughts?
heres a vid of Jade using Glow, anytime she is green she is immune to projectiles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTKUtZgzmwc
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
About the lag of NL. Just short hop and fall. It ground cancels.
hotdogturtle
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2007
- Messages
- 3,503
Who (or where) has she been dominating?
jalued
Smash Lord
i think the real question is ... who even plays the demo now? Just learn the matchup, its far far too early to talk about balance since there is no metagame yet for her. She seems kinda limited to me in the demo anyway
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
Lol yeah who plays the demo I know man
Let me just download the Developer's version real qui..OH WAIT I CANT! Dummy. The demo is all there is at this point for us average joe's. We're not all playtesters(not OFFICIAL ones anyways lol). I'm standing my ground on the Zelda topic. The point is she needs to examined.
jalued
Smash Lord
i play melee instead while i waitLol yeah who plays the demo I know man
Zelda has been altered from the demo, her dins' fire is now different. Her main weakness is that once in the air, none of her air moves have any real priority, so she is juddled easily. Her smashes are also baitable, and her grab range is pathetic.
She is in no shape or form a top tier character in the demo, it just takes practice to space her moves and punish.
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
Wait what? Oh fox's dreaded Usmash oh no. To me Zelda is a defensive character, but from what I've seen and experienced she's much more than that. Tell me what character do YOU think is just ridiculous at this point. You already know my choice.
jalued
Smash Lord
all melee top tiers and ganon. But wait until the second release before making judgement.
Who do you main in PM demo btw?
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
Really? Well yeah grab range is pretty poopie, but I don't buy that aerial weakness. Her Nayru's love has insane priority(which it should I mean it's suppose to protect Zelda) and has invincibility frames not to mention that the range is kinda BS if you ask me along with the duration of the move.i play melee instead while i wait
Zelda has been altered from the demo, her dins' fire is now different. Her main weakness is that once in the air, none of her air moves have any real priority, so she is juddled easily. Her smashes are also baitable, and her grab range is pathetic.
She is in no shape or form a top tier character in the demo, it just takes practice to space her moves and punish.
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
I'm quite fond of Snake at this point, I always was. The sense of security I had with him in brawl was so great because of the kill potential and multiple projectiles. But now I feel like he's stripped down to the bare minimums while everyone else is granted extraordinary buffs. Yes I understand his mines come out quicker and kill better and all that jazz. I'm aware of all of it.
jalued
Smash Lord
yeah snake was not as good as he should be, from streams though he is looking alot better, more fluid and more fun.
In terms of nyru love having crazy priority, just don't jump into it. Bait him to use it then just upsmash underneath or use a carefully spaced arial. When it is used in the air, the endlag is awful
Mr.Jackpot
Smash Lord
Snake has the new knife ftilt right?
jalued
Smash Lord
i think it is just in testing phase, but yes it has been seen in streams. Charging for more than 10 frames makes it a stun knife
I believe its fsmash not tilt
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
From what I've seen on streams, neutral B can be cancelled into smashes. Very nice. More buffs. The only way to truly judge the changes is to play the game myself and unfortunately I cannot. Which is why I kinda laugh at the condescending comments I get about "watching the streams for info". To truly get a grasp on what I'm up against I need to experience the current build and as of now all I got is an outdated demo.
jalued
Smash Lord
only at when used close to the ground, just learn to dashdance more to bait attacks that you then punish from.
I'm sorry but no one in this entire forum will agree that zelda is overpowered, she is not even in the same league as fox/falco
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
A stun..knife..? What's next? Shotgun Utilt? Oh wait that has happened before lmao Man is there any archive footage of snake's shotgun Utilt?
You're complaining about a version that is like almost a year old, in a game that changes every day and has had many major breakthroughs after the version you're playing was released.Lol yeah who plays the demo I know man
I don't really see the point.
And if something's unbalanced or doesn't work correctly, they'll address it, that's what playtesting is for.
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
Not everyone has access to the most current build at any given time. Smarty pants.
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
And what league is that? The easiest to gimp?
jalued
Smash Lord
yes but they are only looking for high level melee player's to test the game, which im sure are suitable for addressing any overwelming balance issues
No, the top melee top tier league. Fox/falco are both incredible characters that are almost unmatched in melee
The MC Clusky
Smash Lord
A smart idea would be to give the latest builds to TO's so we can have actual tournaments for this game. It's only in tournament play do you get any real data. There's plenty of things that can't be shown just playing friendlies in a lab all day.
More eyes/hands = more data.
I've got a lot to say about PM. Like how Peach's umbrella still needs to be fixed to fall faster, and Ness's PK Fire should be limited to only having one on the screen at a time.
More eyes/hands = more data.
I've got a lot to say about PM. Like how Peach's umbrella still needs to be fixed to fall faster, and Ness's PK Fire should be limited to only having one on the screen at a time.
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
Yes, so why am I getting picked on for playing demo? Give me the current build and I'll provide some legitimate concrete criticism. OR step off because I'm only giving feedback based on what version I'm playing. Why have an open thread if you're gonna discourage those who AREN'T OFFICIAL BACKROOM PLAYTESTERS.
KingClubber
Smash Ace
That's not going to happen......can someone address this already this guy is getting quite annoying.
9Kplus1
Smash Master
Calm down lol. If you're extensively playing the demo, then chances are that you won't be able to keep up with the current build or Melee for that matter. Just do what everyone else waiting for the second demo is doing: something better with their lives. For example, whenever I'm not looking for work, watching mediocre porn, tuning into recent streams / vids, or practicing, I'm loading my SD card with boss textures and good brstms in preparation for the next build.Lol yeah who plays the demo I know man
Just be patient like the rest of us
Oh, if you really want the most recent builds, then apply here. If you have what the PMBR is looking for, then you'll be accepted, but if you aren't... er, tough luck and apply again in a few months.
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
Since when does P:M = Melee. Never.
It doesn't matter, your "testing" of an outdated version isn't useful, nor relevant.
It's as if you were complaining about a completely different game, so stop spamming the thread with your "concerns".
Wait until you play the current version before giving feedback.
alot of us arent either you know, just put your trust in the people who are even making this possible, that they can balance it themselves. They are taking their time for a reason. Also many of the people involved are top players, or they have asked top players for advice about balancing the characters.
Specifically Ryoko was.is one of the best melee zeldas, and jcaesar plays with him regularily.
They have the resources to make the game balanced
Specifically Ryoko was.is one of the best melee zeldas, and jcaesar plays with him regularily.
They have the resources to make the game balanced
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
lol yeah I know. I'm not obsessed with the demo. I probably should have noted that this hatred for Zelda has been building up since demo's release
I don't play demo very often, and as for your texture/brstm comment. Word, that's all I have to say.
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
I sometimes catch the streams. Doesn't that count as feedback on what's current?
jalued
Smash Lord
P:M top tiers = melee top tiers, that's part of the point of the project, to encourage melee players to play
Jonny Westside
S4mus Fiend
Let's change le subjé for a bit., regarding stages. I brought this up on the smashmods site and I thoguth I'd ask a more broad audience about this. So here goes. Hanenbow. What's the plan?
lol yeah I know. I'm not obsessed with the demo. I probably should have noted that this hatred for Zelda has been building up since demo's release
I think I'll stop responding now.
Ecks
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,211
PM has Melee data so ported for characters, stages and much of the physics so everything that applies in Melee should apply to PM (Or will eventually). So yeah, Melee tops are The same in PM.
And Snake has a what now? Gotta keep an eye out for those streams...
Edit: Oh yeah, there have been a lot of ported Melee stages on Bvault recently. Is there a plan to include those in PM?
And Snake has a what now? Gotta keep an eye out for those streams...
Edit: Oh yeah, there have been a lot of ported Melee stages on Bvault recently. Is there a plan to include those in PM?
- Status