Project M Social Thread

[standardtoaster]

And really, the current appearance makes perfect sense physically, even by the standards of our world. Imagine you were propelled diagonally into a waxed floor. You would obviously crouch to decrease the g-forces you sustain, and doing so would also lower your center of gravity so you can balance better while you slide. Then you'd fart hexagons to hurt the alien bird you're fighting.

I was perfectly fine up until that part. -dead-

 

[Cero]

But that's exactly what it looks like now, just that the hop is very very quick.

Most of these suggestions make wavedashing sound as if it were an action in itself, rather than technique combining multiple actions. I don't know whether or not it's possible to code it so the game recognizes to play a different animation depending on if you wavedash or actually jump, but even if you can, what about imperfect wavedashes? What about wavelands?
As a sequence of jump-airdodge-land, I think it makes most sense for it to just use the animations for jump, then airdodge, then land.

And really, the current appearance makes perfect sense physically, even by the standards of our world. Imagine you were propelled diagonally into a waxed floor. You would obviously crouch to decrease the g-forces you sustain, and doing so would also lower your center of gravity so you can balance better while you slide. Then you'd fart hexagons to hurt the alien bird you're fighting.

In wavelanding, the airdodge happens so close to the ground it's basically invisible. In wavedashing, both the jump and the airdodge happen too quickly to be observed.

Yes, sliding along the ground while crouching kind of makes sense when you think about the cause... But when you see the character sliding around as if pushed by an invisible force, that's when it truly doesn't make sense.

Also, I'm still not sure how hard it would be to successfully code this (apparently Shanus says it's easy). I'm just trying to point out that wavedashes don't look very organic.

Moonwalking looks organic and I believe that it was a legit glitch in Melee.

Dashdancing... doesn't. But there's nothing you can really do there since dashdancing would only work to mind game people looking the way it does now.

 

[ValTroX]

Can we get off this topic already? WD is fine and they already said they're not wasting time on animation changes for it.

 

[SuperHappyCow]

just so you know, its trivial to code. however, its not trivial to animate, nor do we really want to. i could have a working code for it done in less than 5 minutes

Really? It'd probably be a good idea to try a prototype on Mario, Fox, or another humanoid biped. I'd volunteer for doing the animations, if it were implemented. FK isn't hard so much as it is boring.

What makes the difference between a community that propagates and one that slowly dwindles into obscurity is the one that presents its ideas in an intelligible fashion. I.e. the difference between awkward animations that look like glitching, or a unique animation that unarguably serves a purpose. No offense to anyone.

 

[Cubelarooso]

But you know exactly what that invisible force is, so it does make sense.

Why is it that you're not asking for a change in the airdodge animation, where you're being pushed by an invisible force, and makes even less physical sense than double jumping, since it doesn't even look like it could make sense if the air were solid? It's just spinning and/or flailing and suddenly you're shunted in one of any direction.

And suddenly, inspiration. Rather than having a whole animation, what if airdodges simply created some sort of wind or jet GFX in the direction you go, which would of course also be present while wavedashing? It's kinda like the circular "platform" created while double jumping; the character is redirecting themselves in midair through some unknown mechanism, which is depicted visually in a way that would make it seem plausible to our physical understanding. (Based on no experience whatsoever) This seems like it'd be really easy, and should appease all but the trolls.


Thanks for giving me that idea, but… lol wut moonwalking more organic than dash-dancing?1

 

[MonkUnit]

Can we just drop this already? We're not going to change how wavedashing, dash dancing, moon walking, etc. look. Thanks for proposing the ideas though.

 

[Beorn4200]

You know what I noticed?

There isn't enough damn Meta Knight.

Mario
Mario
Mario
Mario
Link
Link
Link
Falco
Link

You see where I'm getting here?

This week JC

imma going to wherevers

and people are gunna get some meta knight

That looks like heaven...

 

[Ecks]

Really guys, it doesn't have to make sense. And imo, ATs are supposed to look odd/cool/wtf-like. That's part of the fun!

Now about ZSS' down b. What's up with that?

 

[Dark Sonic]

But making wave dashes look like actual dashes (like mvc dashes) would look pretty fancy, I'll give you that.

Wavedashing looks just as ******** in MvC actually, the character starts their dash/backdash animation, goes into crouch animation, then goes back into dash/backdash animation over and over. It's the most spaztastic thing ever. And have you seen what PLinking dashes looks like?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjOrvtll-4g

 

[Cherished Doll]

RapeMaster550&CockooForCoCoPuffz ****!!

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Considering how against major changes that weren't in melee some hardcore melee players are, this seems to be a fruitless endeavor, they probably wouldn't care for it. Plus there is a lot of weirder looking stuff going down besides wave dashing anyway.

 

[UltiMario]

Plus there is a lot of weirder looking stuff going down besides wave dashing anyway.

Yeah like Brawl Ganon

 

[hotdogturtle]

It's funny how Wolf is now one of the non-public characters, when he was one of the original Project M demonstrations, along with Lucas.

But that's a sign of progress and shows just how much change the game goes through.

 

[krackizwak]

Wavedashing looks just as ******** in MvC actually, the character starts their dash/backdash animation, goes into crouch animation, then goes back into dash/backdash animation over and over. It's the most spaztastic thing ever. And have you seen what PLinking dashes looks like?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjOrvtll-4g

actually thought that Ironmans was pretty freaking cool looking lol.

 

[Cero]

But you know exactly what that invisible force is, so it does make sense.

Why is it that you're not asking for a change in the airdodge animation, where you're being pushed by an invisible force, and makes even less physical sense than double jumping, since it doesn't even look like it could make sense if the air were solid? It's just spinning and/or flailing and suddenly you're shunted in one of any direction.

And suddenly, inspiration. Rather than having a whole animation, what if airdodges simply created some sort of wind or jet GFX in the direction you go, which would of course also be present while wavedashing? It's kinda like the circular "platform" created while double jumping; the character is redirecting themselves in midair through some unknown mechanism, which is depicted visually in a way that would make it seem plausible to our physical understanding. (Based on no experience whatsoever) This seems like it'd be really easy, and should appease all but the trolls.


Thanks for giving me that idea, but… lol wut moonwalking more organic than dash-dancing?1

I'd be fine with that, lol. Not speaking for the rest of the Melee community though.

Oh, and people can moonwalk in real life... Not as good as Captain Falcon and Micheal Jackson but it's possible.

Dashdancing looks glitchy but w/e.

Can we just drop this already? We're not going to change how wavedashing, dash dancing, moon walking, etc. look. Thanks for proposing the ideas though.

It's your project. I just wanted you to hear out my idea is all.
Can you at least let SuperHappyCow try his hand at it? He seems pretty enthusiastic and I want to see what he can do.

 

[foshio]

No one is stopping him from doing it. It just wont be part of the project.

 

[Cero]

I'm pretty sure he'd need some help from one of the devs to get a working code going so he can test out his animations.

 

[SuperHappyCow]

Well:

just so you know, its trivial to code. however, its not trivial to animate, nor do we really want to. i could have a working code for it done in less than 5 minutes

Apparently it's trivial to code. The animations aren't cycles, just blends from

air dodge -> dash direction -> idle

From what I understand, Brawl has buffers for bone data, and it does keyframes, unlike say md5anim, so it actually wouldn't be too difficult to do.

Can we just drop this already? We're not going to change how wavedashing, dash dancing, moon walking, etc. look. Thanks for proposing the ideas though.

What makes the difference between a community that propagates and one that slowly dwindles into obscurity is the one that presents its ideas in an intelligible fashion. I.e. the difference between awkward animations that look like glitching, or a unique animation that unarguably serves a purpose. No offense to anyone.

Anyway, I said my peace. :O

 

[Strong Badam]

guys
we need to completely re-think aerial jumps
i mean how does that even make sense

gotta appeal to the casual crowd, yo

 

[KingClubber]

^

Give everyone jet packs, that will solve everything. LOL

XD

 

[Cero]

Aerial jumps do make sense.
There's a "platform" that appears under their feet.

 

[hotdogturtle]

guys
we need to completely re-think "platforms" appearing under people's feet
i mean how does that even make sense

gotta appeal to the casual crowd, yo

 

[blerb]

Here's an idea:

who the **** cares. Pretty much any competitive game I can think of has incredibly basic tactics that "look" glitchy. Hell, the entirety of Gears of War competitive play is literally a bunch of muscle-dudes wall-bouncing the **** out of everything on the map.

Get used to it, mang, cuz it's staying

 

[hotdogturtle]

I don't even see how wavedashing "looks" glitchy. It's one of the more realistic things in the game, if anything. If you land on the ground in real life after falling from an angle, you're going to slide too.

I also don't know why this discussion is still happening after the devs said that it's not changing.

 

[SuperHappyCow]

What a bunch of clever kids. : O

Really does remind me of how pervasive circle strafe jumping used to be in first person shooters during the late 90's. Nobody cared about how ridiculous they appeared, allowing games that largely featured movement as a facet of incredibly steep competition died off, rather than remaining extant within the shooter scene, let alone evolving, if ever so slightly.

But you guys keep practicing your wit! It'll work out for you, I promise! : D

who the **** cares. Pretty much any competitive game I can think of has incredibly basic tactics that "look" glitchy. Hell, the entirety of Gears of War competitive play is literally a bunch of muscle-dudes wall-bouncing the **** out of everything on the map.

Well, see, there's a decent point.

 

[Cero]

How come it's okay to discuss Link animation changes and it's not okay to discuss wavedash animation changes?

I think wavedashes look strange and they deserve about as much attention as Brawl Ganondorf's stupid dash animation or Brawl Falcon's *clank clank* sfx on his boots.

I'm not even arguing to have this put in P:M anymore. I'm just generally curious as to why everyone's so uptight about changing the way the mechanic looks.

It's nostalgia, right?
I've been playing Melee for at least 6+ years. I'm sure there are others here who are in the same boat.

What? Am I just part of a dwindling minority that's open to change?

 

[ds22]

How come it's okay to discuss Link animation changes and it's not okay to discuss wavedash animation changes?

I think wavedashes look strange and they deserve about as much attention as Brawl Ganondorf's stupid dash animation or Brawl Falcon's *clank clank* sfx on his boots.

I'm not even arguing to have this put in P:M anymore. I'm just generally curious as to why everyone's so uptight about changing the way the mechanic looks.

It's nostalgia, right?
I've been playing Melee for at least 6+ years. I'm sure there are others here who are in the same boat.

What? Am I just part of a dwindling minority that's open to change?

We already know you think Wavedashing looks strange and we already said what are opinion about it was.

It's part nostalgia, but mainly it is because we would have to change to much for something that trivial most people don't even care about.
We have more important stuff to do, you know?
This whole project isn't making itself.

So if you mind to the whole subject, since it isn't going anywhere due to the main reason it will be unused by us anyhow.

 

[DVDV28]

How come it's okay to discuss Link animation changes and it's not okay to discuss wavedash animation changes?

I think wavedashes look strange and they deserve about as much attention as Brawl Ganondorf's stupid dash animation or Brawl Falcon's *clank clank* sfx on his boots.

I'm not even arguing to have this put in P:M anymore. I'm just generally curious as to why everyone's so uptight about changing the way the mechanic looks.

It's nostalgia, right?
I've been playing Melee for at least 6+ years. I'm sure there are others here who are in the same boat.

What? Am I just part of a dwindling minority that's open to change?

Changing link = easy
Changing EVERYONE =/= easy

Changing link makes animation fit in with kb
Changing EVERYONE changes little.

 

[Ecks]

Wavedashing looks just as ******** in MvC actually, the character starts their dash/backdash animation, goes into crouch animation, then goes back into dash/backdash animation over and over. It's the most spaztastic thing ever. And have you seen what PLinking dashes looks like?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjOrvtll-4g

Nah, I meant actual dashes. The normal ones when you press right or left twice.

 

[JCaesar]

Man, lotta panties getting in a bunch in here...

You know what I noticed?

There isn't enough damn Meta Knight.

Mario
Mario
Mario
Mario
Link
Link
Link
Falco
Link

You see where I'm getting here?

This week JC

imma going to wherevers

and people are gunna get some meta knight

So what if my Mario and Link are better than my Melee top tiers with the same amount of practice put into them? That's a good thing.

MK can't be shown yet. He will likely be getting an overhaul in the future. You can use him if you want but he's dumb and I definitely won't record any matches with him.

btw everyone, major smashfest this weekend in MD/VA (which means major livestream Saturday night and Sunday probably). Possible special guests include The Guy I Just Quoted, Ryoko, GuruKid, CTL (Yoshi fans rejoice), and ... UmbreonMow (dunno if he'll play P:M though).

 

[shanus]

Part of the hesitancy surrounding these is that these additionally require 2 animations per character. While individuals have volunteered to contribute (which is appreciated), there is additional concern around fitmotionetc size limitations. If we ever do feel like making these, we will let everyone know, but for now the idea will not be pursued.

 

[GPDP]

These are the kind of discussions that take place when people have seemingly nothing better to do than wait for a highly anticipated game to be released.

 

[Cubelarooso]

guys
we need to completely re-think this invisible force that attracts all matter in the universe to all other matter in the universe
i mean how does that even make sense

gotta appeal to the casual crowd, yo

Spoiler

I'm not too late, am I?

 

[MonkUnit]

Yeah, you're too late on that one, Cubelarooso.

Hyped for JCaesar's stream though. :D I just hope I don't have homework on Saturday. lol

 

[Rikana]

I think smashballs should make pizzas be filled with chocolate beers.

 

[JCaesar]

You sir ... need to come to my smashfest.

 

[Stevo]

I think smashballs should make pizzas be filled with chocolate beers.

I don't know why but I re-read this post 3 times and after the 3rd time I laughed.


Also, nobody responded to my idea of Mario being able to jump before landing from a short hop up-air, with timing similar to jumping after his back-air.

I don't think it would be over powered and it would add some more technical depth to him.
He already can do it with one of his aerials so it would not be introducing something completely brand new to his character.

I think it would be so smooth. Imagine following their DI with a waveland into an up-tilt, or double-jumping into another up-air next to a platform perhaps with a waveland to continue the combo. Mario M is going to be fun no doubt with all the Doc upgrades, but I just love the situational options that being able to act out of a SH up-air would give.

 

[Deleted member]

Also, nobody responded to my idea of Mario being able to jump before landing from a short hop up-air, with timing similar to jumping after his back-air

Thats not a bad idea if only because it gives Mario more options with minimal impact on him as a character.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

And people who claim wdash is a glitch are mostly trolls.

Fixed.

Spoiler

10char

 

[Ecks]

Sad part is that it isn't always so. Some genuinely believe believe we don't have fun playing competitively. Doesn't make sense to play a game that isn't fun, but logic doesn't stop them. :/