Project M Social Thread

[Revven]

bringing up something I didn't get to after CoT5 about yoshi: every now and then when I'd try to do an rising aerial (iirc this usually happened from the ledge) Yoshi would freeze in what looked like a standing pose rather than do the aerial. Nobody there seemed to know what it was. Please fix?

It'll be fixed don't worry about it, we were aware of it before CoT5.

 

[Sneak8288]

I recorded some macthes last night and will do more today.. any character requests?

 

[shanus]

more procario

 

[Rubyiris]

i had a wonderful time at Genesis. So far it looks like that if you're good at melee, you're good at project Melee, too. Now for some discussion, I guess!

I played AT LEAST an hour of friendlies with KOF, maybe even more! Falco/Fox vs Zamus, and I noticed that she has practically zero escape options. Falco can just control her space, and crouch cancel all of her fast normals. Once he's in on her all he has to do is push buttons. I personally elected to spam laser grab and shine grab a lot. eventually I had the guy conditioned to do certain things, and I started just standing next to him and hitting him out of his OOS options rather than trying to force it.

I did learn that arguably her best option vs Falco is her dash grab, especially near the ledge. Her fthrow and bthrow are wonderful gimping tools, combined with her good edgeguarding tools. It takes her far too long to KO him via attacks, because you can fairly easily SDI out of her usmash set ups, or just control her to the point where she can't even do them.

Bowser's probably mid tier AT BEST. Despite the massive buffs, he's still just bowser. Outside of the first game I played vs Bad Guy, the only games I lost were literally because I kept shielding near the ledge and getting klaw gimped. In fact, Klaw was one of the only things that DID hit me when we were playing. The first game I just kinda ran around and lasered and stuff to get a hang of P:M after a few months of not playing, and to see what Bowser could to. From there, I figured out that Bowser is secretly a worse Marth. The secret to beating the guy is to attack between his. Many of Bowser's aerials and grounded normals are fast, and have huge hitboxes, but take a billion years to end. What Falco does is wait for Bowser to attack, then kick him. A lot. Edgeguarding is fairly simple. Just kick him. If he grabs the ledge, stay just within the edge of Bowser's ledge attack range so that you can react to it, or laser grab a normal get up. If he ledge jumps, just laser and react to what he does from there.

Zelda is the over-hyped character of the day. Many of the brawl players, and a few of the lower level melee players were going on about how broken she was. The fireballs have hurtboxes and small hitboxes, so most characters can just attack through them. As Falco I just naired through them, or depending on the spacing, I'd often just short hop through any gaps. As for Zelda's attacks, she isn't really fast enough to trade with Falco, or Fox so I found that once I got in on her space, that was it. Sure, she didn't die until like 160% on a regular basis, but I found that it was difficult for Zelda to really do anything about it. Again, just grab her a lot.

With Fox, she becomes even easier. Easy usmash kos, and his Bair beats out her entire moveset, plus he's fast as it gets.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Does Ness' dair still auto-cancel on the frame the hitbox is put away like in Melee?

 

[Divinokage]

Lol ya Zelda struck me as a character that can be really good when i played against her. In the beginning, when she puts up her mines, i was like: "What the hell is that? lol" and I decided to challenge it to see what it does and mid-match i learned you can hit through them so it made the matchup a lot easier.. but I mean I can see how a really smart player can use that to his advantage and bait the opponent to hit the mines and then get counter-attacked inside the small hitstun and landing lag. Idk, Zelda seems pretty good.. Link too, he has awesome combos from what i've seen. I didn't get to play vs new characters except ROB.. and he's definitely kinda annoying to play against lol. His Nair is bull**** lol.

 

[Rubyiris]

Zelda's good but people were saying that she was stupid broken, etc hence the "over-hyped" comment. She feels like a mid-tier character to me.

Rob's pretty cool. I found that he suffers on small stages. Gotta do what you can to minimize his mobility, and vs fast fallers, his chain grab.

Links normals are all slightly buffed in P:M, but in all honesty, his combos are pretty much exactly the same in P:M as they are in Melee.

 

[Kazyx]

I recorded some macthes last night and will do more today.. any character requests?

I'm thinking some more Wario and Bowser action, if you could be so kind.

I'd say Ivysaur, but I think that one's not even close to being ready to be shown so I won't ask for that.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

That Bowser vid makes me feel SO excited for him. Good lord, his upsmash canceling Ike's incoming r@3pness.....that was AWESOME.

 

[nawgui]

alright just got some wifi at where im at, and jsut posting my thoughts and ideas on my exposure to P:M at genesis2, first off, JCaesar, your smexy goatee is really smexy, next, i played fox, charizard, and ike, and it was really really really bomb, i didnt expect to take 13th in the tourney either with a character i never played before (Ike), but also doubles with JCaesar was amazing, and overall the feeling of the game was transitional easy, i felt like i had an upperhand against some of the people i played against due to melee experience, it was amazing. I can't express my uptmost graditude to the P:M team for something really amazing that shows that they've put effort and care into. It was apparent too some of the little bugs and stuff that the codes had that was holding back the patch, so don't pressure the team too much about a quick release, they're working hard on it. ALSO Ike and Charizard feel amazing, it might have been how i was playing the first time, but fox felt a little floaty, but thats prolly me and not the game itself (just my thoughts on it). It was amazing watching Kage play ganon, and keep at it P:M dev team!

 

[BadGuy]

Bowser's probably mid tier AT BEST. Despite the massive buffs, he's still just bowser. Outside of the first game I played vs Bad Guy, the only games I lost were literally because I kept shielding near the ledge and getting klaw gimped. In fact, Klaw was one of the only things that DID hit me when we were playing. The first game I just kinda ran around and lasered and stuff to get a hang of P:M after a few months of not playing, and to see what Bowser could to. From there, I figured out that Bowser is secretly a worse Marth. The secret to beating the guy is to attack between his. Many of Bowser's aerials and grounded normals are fast, and have huge hitboxes, but take a billion years to end. What Falco does is wait for Bowser to attack, then kick him. A lot. Edgeguarding is fairly simple. Just kick him. If he grabs the ledge, stay just within the edge of Bowser's ledge attack range so that you can react to it, or laser grab a normal get up. If he ledge jumps, just laser and react to what he does from there.

Funny, I remember winning every match except for the one on hyrule castle. I'm a bit disappointed in your misinformation especially after meeting you in person. I had nothing but nice things to say about your falco skill and i find you here spreading slander.

But what you have to say about Bowser being mid tier at best is true and i agree. Each fight was very difficult for me, i got beat up pretty bad in between stocks and relied on bowser's thick skin and armor to wait for openings to kill falco. It got me my victories so im not complaining. Your feedback is useful information should the BR consider buffing him more. Thanks for your time Rubyiris, and ggs...i guess, i suppose you weren't at your best that night, while i was in perfect form.

 

[Beorn4200]

I could imagine that on more evasive/defensive characters like Ness and Sonic, but I find it hard to believe that the "strong" characters like Bowser, Link, and DK could be that weak (or ignored?).

Well I'm sure they aren't ignored at all... But characters like fox and falco do bowser damage on their aerials ... and Have insane kill power with many kill moves...

But yeh melee top tiers are top for a reason... and they do make for faster matches than alot of the brawl characters from what I have seen. Brawl characters do look more interesting though considering the team has free reign over there movesets.



Lol no link is not a strong character... He has pretty weak kill moves, and doesn't do that much damage considering his low combo potential.

Bowser and DK look boss as **** though.

 

[Divinokage]

Ganon is definitely top tier, he's sooo good. I think also Jiggs as well.

 

[Sneak8288]

Lol I still have no clue what to do with lucario

 

[kaizo13]

^here's a suggestion.......combo the **** out of somebody

 

[MonkUnit]

press buttons

they happen to combo into stuff

pretty much how I use lucario lol

 

[ValTroX]

I didn't get to play vs new characters except ROB.. and he's definitely kinda annoying to play against lol. His Nair is bull**** lol.

Lol that I could notice from the videos, I mean if JCz wasover the stage when recovering, it was impossible to kill him, since he would do a UpB>sideB to nair and it's impossible to aproach ROB because the nair has such a huge hitbox. Still, the mall stages do help against him and I guess you could CP some characters with good projectiles to make his ranged game a little more difficult.

 

[slimpyman]

Lol I still have no clue what to do with lucario

get better.

 

[kaizo13]

I love how people already claiming Lucario to be broken when they probably wouldn't even be able to pull off a single OHC combo(3 hits+) in an actual match.....let alone win the match

 

[Beorn4200]

Links normals are all slightly buffed in P:M, but in all honesty, his combos are pretty much exactly the same in P:M as they are in Melee.

Yeh, same damage, a bit more reach, same mediocre combos.. If he hasn't had any tweaks since the demo I don't see him being anything but low tier... I only say this because he is mostly melee link with a handful of good buffs, a bunch of tiny ones... and some pretty huge nerfs (bomb limit, hook-shot, hook-shot length) I haven't really seen him win much of anything... I cringed at how tight that Jcaes match was against that new to PM zard.

but I have gone into this before... nothing has changed my mind yet. He just hasn't gotten the work over characters like zelda bowser kirby ness and even characters higher on the tier list than him like Mario and DK have gotten. Just looks like a slightly buffed melee link. Still has a really hard time killing, comboing, recovering, and getting out of pressure. Very reliant on reading the other player to make up for his speed.

I've all ways wished link had one of those OHKO bad *** moves like marths fsmash, foxes usmash (utilt,uair) falcos Fsmash, Marios new fsmash, ganons fair, zeldas kicks, falcons knees, pikas usmash, shieks fair, jiggs rest, Ikes fsmash, warios fart, samus charge shot .... ect Those kill you at 90 gimp you at 70 not too difficult to land kills moves most of the cast has. I could see him not having a reliable kill move like this if he was a fast gimper like sonic or quick damage racker like peach... but hes slow and looks like he should be powerfull... Dair is really not that powerfull and very difficult to land consistently, and up-B is soooo slow and laggy with an easy to DI trajectory... it really cant be used much. Link has his omg too good moves like most chars have (nair) just really bad kill options for such a slow character...

damn that got long.

 

[nawgui]

I've all ways wished link had one of those OHKO bad *** moves like marths fsmash, foxes usmash (utilt,uair) falcos Fsmash, Marios new fsmash, ganons fair, zeldas kicks, falcons knees, pikas usmash, shieks fair, jiggs rest, Ikes fsmash, warios fart, samus charge shot .... ect

I feel his grounded up-b compensates as one of those

 

[Divinokage]

Lol that I could notice from the videos, I mean if JCz wasover the stage when recovering, it was impossible to kill him, since he would do a UpB>sideB to nair and it's impossible to aproach ROB because the nair has such a huge hitbox. Still, the mall stages do help against him and I guess you could CP some characters with good projectiles to make his ranged game a little more difficult.

If he does that you can shield it since I don't think ROB can do much after hitting someone's shield with nair, it's a bit unsafe. And I mean at worst you can just dash away and be patient.. though sometimes rushing down ROB is required to stop whatever he does.

 

[Revven]

Yeh, same damage, a bit more reach, same mediocre combos.. If he hasn't had any tweaks since the demo I don't see him being anything but low tier... I only say this because he is mostly melee link with a handful of good buffs, a bunch of tiny ones... and some pretty huge nerfs (bomb limit, hook-shot, hook-shot length) I haven't really seen him win much of anything...

And those "nerfs" aren't intentional in any way.

You sure are pretty negative matt4300.

 

[Beorn4200]

I feel his grounded up-b compensates as one of those

If you played a lot of melee link... You would know that this move should not be used much and is really not very good. Go read sklers enormous melee link character guide.


Falco400 Im positive on everyone but link... I love what was done to other characters... pretty much all of it... And ive said before i know they are unintentional... but they are also not fixable atm. Hah ... Yeh my I can't get on my old account anymore I dont know what happened to it... sigh

I can be positive about link in PM I mean he plays like a better melee link. Even more fun with the bomb laying stuff and new speed. No ones gonna disagree with that or fight my argument. He's just more fun.

 

[metroid1117]

Regarding the changes to Bowser, at what % do the SAF stop working? Is it knockback/damage dependent like Yoshi's heavy armor on double-jump, or is it a certain threshold % like edge options (less than 99% versus equal to or greater than 100%)?

Also, when you say he has the ability to Fortress Hog, is it exactly like in Melee or does he grab the edge whenever he slides off (like in Melee sloped edges such as at Yoshi's Story)?

I love the changes, keep it up PMBR! You should make an Ike video next .

 

[Rubyiris]

Funny, I remember winning every match except for the one on hyrule castle. I'm a bit disappointed in your misinformation especially after meeting you in person. I had nothing but nice things to say about your falco skill and i find you here spreading slander.

But what you have to say about Bowser being mid tier at best is true and i agree. Each fight was very difficult for me, i got beat up pretty bad in between stocks and relied on bowser's thick skin and armor to wait for openings to kill falco. It got me my victories so im not complaining. Your feedback is useful information should the BR consider buffing him more. Thanks for your time Rubyiris, and ggs...i guess, i suppose you weren't at your best that night, while i was in perfect form.

You DID win every game. The thing is that nearly every one came from my shielding too close to the ledge when I had a sizable lead and getting Klaw gimped several times. I'm sorry if the way I typed it out seemed to be malicious.

 

[JOE!]

So yeah, still havent gotten an answer as to if Zard's jab got changed to just Jab 3....looks like it has in the vids

And what is the purpose of the F and Dtilt swapping? I barely saw any use of either....

 

[FireBall Stars]

I'll be sincere

In my opinion, Bowser currently has top tier potential, but Falco will still be a hard match for him.

He's currently my best counterpick character, except against Falco.

 

[MonkUnit]

I wish I could play spacies. I just nairplane all day.

 

[Rubyiris]

I can imagine Fox, Ganon, and Rob all having positive match ups vs Bowser.

Bowser vs Marth would be interesting. I have no idea how that would go.

 

[smashbro29]

I can imagine Fox, Ganon, and Rob all having positive match ups vs Bowser.

Bowser vs Marth would be interesting. I have no idea how that would go.

You could bait the Bowser and counter.

 

[Sneak8288]

Lol @ the post saying gimped at 70... if your at 70 its not a gimp, its just a kill/edgeguard. I will learn lucario eventually. I just keep playing too much mvc3

 

[Onomanic]

Beorn, dude, Link doesn't need that kinda "OHKO" like you mentioned. What he may lack in kill power he makes up for in gimping power, especially with his buffed up B. Nair is brilliant for gimping, and arrows are still something that need to be experimented with more, but their potential is clear. You worry too much. Balance doesn't mean everyone is top tier, it just means (imo anyway) everyone is viable.

 

[BadGuy]

I can imagine Fox, Ganon, and Rob all having positive match ups vs Bowser.

Bowser vs Marth would be interesting. I have no idea how that would go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf8fGjs8ncc

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Regarding the changes to Bowser, at what % do the SAF stop working? Is it knockback/damage dependent like Yoshi's heavy armor on double-jump, or is it a certain threshold % like edge options (less than 99% versus equal to or greater than 100%)?

Also, when you say he has the ability to Fortress Hog, is it exactly like in Melee or does he grab the edge whenever he slides off (like in Melee sloped edges such as at Yoshi's Story)?

I love the changes, keep it up PMBR! You should make an Ike video next .

It's not percent, it's knockback based AFAIK. Once an attack reaches a certain knockback, the armor will break.

 

[Soldner Kei]

Beorn, dude, Link doesn't need that kinda "OHKO" like you mentioned. What he may lack in kill power he makes up for in gimping power, especially with his buffed up B. Nair is brilliant for gimping, and arrows are still something that need to be experimented with more, but their potential is clear. You worry too much. Balance doesn't mean everyone is top tier, it just means (imo anyway) everyone is viable.

^this

if Link makes mediocre combos it's because the player is mediocre with him, nuff said

 

[Rubyiris]

Hey Bad Guy, do you have msn/aim/etc? ;D

Also no offense to Gunblade, but he attacked you far too much. He needed to hang back, and or dash dance more.

 

[BadGuy]

Hey Bad Guy, do you have msn/aim/etc? ;D

Also no offense to Gunblade, but he attacked you far too much. He needed to hang back, and or dash dance more.

He's never fought bowser before lol. I was a bit too laid back in those matches, i should've gotten more serious. I made a lot of careless mistakes.

 

[cmart]

I can imagine Fox, Ganon, and Rob all having positive match ups vs Bowser.

Bowser vs Marth would be interesting. I have no idea how that would go.

Fox yes, Ganon iounno, Rob is even at best; and Marth is prolly slightly in Marth's favor (I feel Marth's gay **** > Bowser's gay **** in that matchup, but it's close). If you're looking for who Bowser has the most trouble with, it's still Sheik and always will be as long as she can chaingrab and gimp him like she does.

Agree that Gunblade didn't know how to fight Bowser

 

[JCaesar]

mmm speculation

popcorn.gif

It's really too early to say where these characters will fall on the tier list. We need more time, results, experience, etc, i.e. a public build being played by hundreds of people.