Project M Social Thread Gold

[Bleck]

Comeback Kid beat me to the link. Z-Cancelling and L-Cancelling were definitely intended in SSB and Melee.

 

[Warsaint777]

Yes, it is called Smooth Landing.

http://web.archive.org/web/20000608173846/smashbros.com/moves_advattacklanding.html

You may now eat humble pie.

I have a taste for humble pie when I'm wrong I assure you, but that does not look legit in the slightest. : /

Seriously what is that website? It looks like a middleschooler's HTML class assignment.

 

[Empyrean]

Chillin droppin the energems on the dogs

 

[Strong Badam]

that doesn't change much, because a good tier list should take into account every region when, again, only japan has it for about twenty or so days

Their Tier List reflects the current metagame. It's entirely fine. It's not going to necessarily be accurate a year from now but that's not the point of the tier list.

 

[Bleck]

t's not going to necessarily be accurate a year from now but that's not the point of the tier list.

If accuracy isn't the point of a tier list, what is?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I have a taste for humble pie when I'm wrong I assure you, but that does not look legit in the slightest. : /

Seriously what is that website? It looks like a middleschooler's HTML class assignment.

it's from archive.org

the site captures webpages from a long time ago (in the case from 1999(!!!!!))

i mean, look at the url: http://smashbros.com/moves_advattacklanding.html

 

[Warsaint777]

it's from archive.org

the site captures webpages from a long time ago (in the case from 1999(!!!!!))

i mean, look at the url: http://smashbros.com/moves_advattacklanding.html

Ohh, is that what it does? I see the url there, yeah. I'm still skeptical. I mean when I was a kid I never ****ed with the website obviously (was the net even accessible/practical to most families when smash 64 first came out? #dumbquestionmaybe).

So what you're saying is, Z-cancelling was a consciously programmed mechanic for skilled players, but just wasn't demonstrated in the tutorial videos or given in the game case booklet with the rest of the control nuances? But it WAS on the "official" website in 1999 in the wide web's toddlerhood, and entitled 'Smooth Landing'?

Dude I mean. Idunno man. Maybe though.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

somehow, he has a way to DI so hard that he can go from the blast zone on one side of the stage from getting hit, and shoot right to the other side of the stage

wario pls stop

How?

 

[Warchamp7]

I added a new forum add-on that should group similar alerts together. I need everyone to like this post. For sciene.

Edit: Too late

Science has won

 

[SpiderMad]

@ Soft Serve even SSB4's more defensive options still kind of promote things happening? link's bomb options look pretty hardcore-lame, but at least it means he's pressuring at all, whereas brawl kind of put you at a disadvantage for doing anything

not throwing stuff and Zair'ing

 

[MechWarriorNY]

I added a new forum add-on that should group similar alerts together. I need everyone to like this post. For sciene.

Edit: Too late

Science has won

>implying it can lose

 

[Espi]

So is 3.5 gonna come out a few months after smash 4 wii ?

 

[trash?]

warchamp, we need to set it up to be a per-user basis also

what I'm saying is I don't want ten different notifications w/ all of them being mech's

 

[Deleted member]

I added a new forum add-on that should group similar alerts together. I need everyone to like this post. For sciene.

Edit: Too late

Science has won

So does this apply to everyone, or do we have to enable it in our settings manually?

 

[Strong Badam]

If accuracy isn't the point of a tier list, what is?

Should we not make a tier list until a game is dead and we know the finality of the metagame?

 

[Mr.Pickle]

So is 3.5 gonna come out a few months after smash 4 wii ?

Probably around mid october or early november is when it will come out, but don't quote me on it since I'm not on the dev team.

 

[Bleck]

My question wasn't rhetorical - if the point of a tier list isn't to try and rank characters as objectively as possible, then I don't understand the point of tier lists.

 

[SpiderMad]

I think you guys are forgetting how good Japan is at Brawl

Ohh, is that what it does? I see the url there, yeah. I'm still skeptical. I mean when I was a kid I never ****ed with the website obviously (was the net even accessible/practical to most families when smash 64 first came out? #dumbquestionmaybe).

So what you're saying is, Z-cancelling was a consciously programmed mechanic for skilled players, but just wasn't demonstrated in the tutorial videos or given in the game case booklet with the rest of the control nuances? But it WAS on the "official" website in 1999 in the wide web's toddlerhood, and entitled 'Smooth Landing'?

Dude I mean. Idunno man. Maybe though.

And what are you saying? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVA4PuYQNko
You don't just create bugs like Z-cancel and L-cancelling lol
And Smash has a lot of nuisances not given to us
And we could probably prove that website was official

 

[Phan7om]

Thats the problem with tier lists, they will never be accurate for two reasons.

1. No one is playing at perfect TAS level
2. We dont know every thing every character can do, new stuff is found constantly.

Because of that we have to adjust what making a tier list is, making it as accurate as humanly possible which is not the same as being truly accurate. For example, if option A is a decent option but option B is a little better but 10x harder no one would even consider option B, but to be truly accurate option A shouldnt even be considered because its inferior to option B. So option A could make a character 1 or 2 spots below where he would be if option B was the norm. Thats why 20XX Fox is so admired kinda.

And then when new tricks are found for characters, that immediately changes their tier position if it's significant enough, but there is no way possible to know all of the options every character has ever because mostly no one looks for them hard enough, but also because thats just impossible.

So when looking at a tier list, it should be based off what characters can do with their options and matchup favors and such... not tourney results. Some tier lists have characters way out of order because the player was good and wins matches. But we also have to consider human error as well when making them.

 

[Gamegenie222]

So Jiggs crouch can make alot of things whiff apparently.

 

[Warchamp7]

Should we not make a tier list until a game is dead and we know the finality of the metagame?

Yes.

 

[Phan7om]

So Jiggs crouch can make alot of things whiff apparently.

Yo I use to do that a lot in brawl tho with Kirby and Puff, crouch oos. Looks like it avoids more stuff now tho. I wonder if Kirby's is still lower than Puff's haha.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

My question wasn't rhetorical - if the point of a tier list isn't to try and rank characters as objectively as possible, then I don't understand the point of tier lists.

I think this is the first thing I completely agree with you on.

warchamp, we need to set it up to be a per-user basis also
what I'm saying is I don't want ten different notifications w/ all of them being mech's

 

[SpiderMad]

So Jiggs crouch can make alot of things whiff apparently.

Another Mahlee existing in the world at 1:05, if only the game screamed the correct pronunciation at the title screen for three seconds long

 

[Bleck]

if only the game screamed the correct pronunciation at the title screen for three seconds long

somebody make a whole subforum where only I can post and I just quote this thousands of times

 

[Soft Serve]

He does say it correctly, although the emphasis is on the wrong sylable. The announcer says "MaEEEEEEE LaEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" and all everyone hears is the strong E sound that happens when you elongate vowels.

Anyone else disapointed that all the grab-release jank on wario from brawl is still in it? :/

 

[Player -0]

The thing about being able to grab Jiggz out of the crouch probably has to do with the idle crouch animation. Jiggz seems to breath (similar to how Mario & Luigi look to either side) and that moves her hurtbox upwards.

 

[standardtoaster]

my dad upgraded and got an iphone 6s and gave me his iphone 5. i made sure to backup my iphone 4 before using the 5. apparently it didn't back up any of my apps at all. super pissed right now

 

[SpiderMad]

The thing about being able to grab Jiggz out of the crouch probably has to do with the idle crouch animation. Jiggz seems to breath (similar to how Mario & Luigi look to either side) and that moves her hurtbox upwards.

Correct (or most likely for Smash 4, she does seem to move less in her crouch.. she's overall a lot more creepy looking and acting than in the past games) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5F0tjmsM3M&list=UUgxLH4vL82RvKqCD6OvCDSQ

Maybe Smash 4 overall is a lot less life-like, with less breathing and such

 

[Warchamp7]

my dad upgraded and got an iphone 6s and gave me his iphone 5. i made sure to backup my iphone 4 before using the 5. apparently it didn't back up any of my apps at all. super pissed right now

APPLE PRODUCTS ​

 

[Gamegenie222]

Just found this on my Facebook feed lol. Xanadu PM in a nutshell to viewers and more.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

I added a new forum add-on that should group similar alerts together. I need everyone to like this post. For sciene.

Edit: Too late

Science has won

I literally spent 40 minutes trying to find a alert customization button :V

 

[9bit]

How can I look at game models (like the swords)? In BrawlBox? If so, which files? pls

Edit: with the textures on

 

[Strong Badam]

Yes.

I guess the only Smash game that can have a tier list is Brawl then. RIP.

 

[Gamegenie222]

He does say it correctly, although the emphasis is on the wrong sylable. The announcer says "MaEEEEEEE LaEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" and all everyone hears is the strong E sound that happens when you elongate vowels.

Anyone else disapointed that all the grab-release jank on wario from brawl is still in it? :/

I'm still disappointed with that bit of info. I woke up to that on the Smash Reddit and I apologize to every Wario main I knew that they have to deal with that nonsense again although to a lesser degree but it's not gonna matter when Little Mac can just KO punch from it and thus creating unfathomable salt in the future.

Pretty much every Wario player response from that bit of news.

 

[Empyrean]

Just found this on my Facebook feed lol. Xanadu PM in a nutshell to viewers and more.

Lmaoooo at PB&J with the 7 3DS's, looool

 

[Vashimus]

Thats the problem with tier lists, they will never be accurate for two reasons.

1. No one is playing at perfect TAS level
2. We dont know every thing every character can do, new stuff is found constantly.

Because of that we have to adjust what making a tier list is, making it as accurate as humanly possible which is not the same as being truly accurate. For example, if option A is a decent option but option B is a little better but 10x harder no one would even consider option B, but to be truly accurate option A shouldnt even be considered because its inferior to option B. So option A could make a character 1 or 2 spots below where he would be if option B was the norm. Thats why 20XX Fox is so admired kinda.

And then when new tricks are found for characters, that immediately changes their tier position if it's significant enough, but there is no way possible to know all of the options every character has ever because mostly no one looks for them hard enough, but also because thats just impossible.

So when looking at a tier list, it should be based off what characters can do with their options and matchup favors and such... not tourney results. Some tier lists have characters way out of order because the player was good and wins matches. But we also have to consider human error as well when making them.

Tier lists are never going to be accurate because the game is constantly changing and nothing is set in stone, not for those two reasons you just listed. The fact no one plays at TAS level or knows everything that each character can do is irrelevant, since it reflects the current state of the metagame.

Tier lists rarely take tournament results into consideration, so I don't know why you even brought that up. All a tier list says is, assuming players are playing at the highest level, based on their toolsets and matchups, which characters would likely take the match. There's a strong correlation between higher tier characters and tournament results, yes, but correlation =/= causation, which is why no one uses tier lists to determine a match outcome.

I agree it's too early to make a Smash 4 tier list since we don't even have the game yet, but I really couldn't care less if people make them, and I'd advise others to do the same. At least for my sake, because I hate seeing friends bicker with each other.

 

[Empyrean]

People still don't agree on a tier list for PM, and it's been 9 months since 3.0 released. Smash 4 has 10 more characters. I can already smell the ****storm brewing.

 

[Gamegenie222]

http://www.twitch.tv/MELEEITONME
A new podcast from the MIOM team begins and it's gonna be talking with leaders from different games and trying to help get some serious discussion going about the BS game discrimination. It's worth a serious listen.

 

[Player -0]

Even though a tier list as a whole hasn't been agreed on the top characters pretty much have been.