Project M Social Thread Gold

[Phan7om]

Its people's fasle hopes that a Melee 2 will come out. And even if Wavedashing, L-canceling, DDing, w/e was to make it into the game, they'd bash on something else... saying "it doesnt feel the same" or "its too easy".

 

[SpiderMad]

Debating whether to drive 50min to play it, I might see if my friends want to go but they pry won't. I just want to play it solely because of its demo state, in which you won't get another chance to. I'm also well versed in feeling and knowing things like amount of Buffer. Also @ 9bit I think its only the Gamepad controller thing, would you be going to Schaumberg location (which I'd go to)? I could google Elgin and guess but yeah just tell me

I also think the people at the invitational could have played better if they did more early of aerials to autocancel (some other guy in some other thread mentioned this too) though I couldn't tell if they made a lot more moves autocancel windows horrible.

Also with Sakuria, unlike the PMBR, has like one chance (two chances with this demo) to get the game "right" before its supposedly a final version.

PM was mostly Brawl from 1.0 to 2.1. You still played the **** out of it.

Whatever, I'm done.

It still had a lot of Brawl things like in character remnants and larger DI angles and such, but after just putting a lot of the basic Melee ATs in it definitely became its own game. I appreciated 1.0 for what it was, and I'd say the biggest difference was just the landing detection: which mostly sucked and kept me from playing Falcon but for Marth it was sort of cool for getting Dairs off platforms to land way faster but bad for double aerials obv but kind of better for other SH autocancels to end faster.
Also the 1/2 frame delay they fixed, I still don't think it was that bad or anything. I have some feeling like it could have been making certain things easier. Whatever it was: Pre-release versions, 1.0, and 2.1 all had this amazing feel to movement and such that later versions kind of ruined somehow whether to general mechanics like improved MADodge formula or the character's themselves. I know for sure that Marth was more slidey in certain things in 1.0, but Lucas and Pit (and Ike besides the nerfs themselves) felt better in 2.1 ways and Diddy felt better in 2.5 but in 3.0 they fixed his landing detection problems and thus took out some of the physics changes they had in place to compensate and now he feels worse. Basically I'd just say everyone had and lost some nice feeling slideyness besides possible overall control ability maybe.

The prophecy that I foretold has begun. This is the calm before the **** storm that is this holiday season but I bet you if Nintendo starting their own pro tour/Cup like with Capcom did with Street Fighter 4 and when MLG start throwing out money then ya'll folks are gonna shut up and play that game. The more and more I'm seeing all the crap that's going on the more I'm convince that Smash community has too much of a broken base to put all of this behind them and refuse to use logic.

I don't think they'll put all that much money into it. And the Smash community is grassroots enough to live through stuff, while good games like Third Strike die off besides the Japanese scene who knows to at least try to keep the good games alive.

When I was a kid, the rumor I heard in Melee was that you have to do some stupid jank in Multi-Man Melee, Cruel Melee specifically, to unlock Sonic, or Tails, or somebody. That was the first time I found out about Jigglypuff's rest, and had a sort of H-Box moment. Too bad I never kept going with it.

Yep, me and others was being told this from two of my friends. One of them was older than us and was just having fun with us, but my other friend made up some of the most BS about experiencing Metal Sonic and it scares me to this day how he was able to straight face lie about it until years later.

Was the first one to play smash 4 in ny. First thing I tried was super wavedashing lol

I thought it starts after 3? How were you able play

peachyhime mentioned after the invitational that she just wants to go back home and play PM

this has angered a lot of people, for... reasons that can only be explained with "I have short-term amnesia and I forgot all the other times nintendo has been known to hate us"

I need to stay updated on twitter and stuff, cus so far I have no clue what the invited people thought of the invitational.

 

[9bit]

Debating whether to drive 50min to play it, I might see if my friends want to go but they pry won't. I just want to play it solely because of its demo state, in which you won't get another chance to. I'm also well versed in feeling and knowing things like amount of Buffer. Also @ 9bit I think its only the Gamepad controller thing, would you be going to Schaumberg location (which I'd go to)? I could google Elgin and guess but yeah just tell me

Yeah I'd be going to the Schaumberg one. Probably at like 6 or so.

 

[SpiderMad]

Yeah I'd be going to the Schaumberg one. Probably at like 6 or so.

Oh, well in that case I want to meet you so I''ll pry go then. Wanna exchange cells?

how dare you not immediately take this game we've seen little to nothing of in a pre-release state and suckle on its genitalia. the horror

I'd still keep a little respect for Nintendo/Smash 4, being invited to a payed expense invitational was a huge chance to get recognized and career achievement and so on. Zero could have smiled more after winning and stuff too, but it seemed like he just got a migraine lol. Also what is it with you people having lack of faith in PM? Is she referring mostly to a possible C&D? That's the only way PM could die, and I'd say the best way to stop that from happening is giving Nintendo respect so that we have some merit for backlash if it happens.

Ah sweet both my friends are going (Octorok/Tango, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVeMluR8feQ ) , @ 9bit gonna be fun
..now that I think of it, someone needs to bring a PM set-up and ask if they'd allow it lol, or maybe we could go to one of the friend's house in palatine afterwords

 

[Comeback Kid]

People seem to be finding the game is less technical than Brawl. Slightly faster and slightly more hitstun maybe but just as floaty and now with the added features of no SDI or edgehogging or viable throws.

No planking is great and all but I think people seriously thought this game would be between Melee and Brawl not a simpler version of Brawl.

All the complaining actually gives some hope that Nintendo will change things due to fan pressure and do a reverse Brawl E3 by improving things and not simplifying them.

 

[Gamegenie222]

So is anyone gonna record footage at the event and if someone is there are you allowed to record footage.

 

[SpiderMad]

Would McDonalds allow a PM setup?

Yeah @ Comeback Kid , I haven't played Allstars but it looks like it turned into that

@ Gamegenie222 probly

 

[Fortress]

Would McDonalds allow a PM setup?

Ha. McGot him good there.

 

[Ripple]

In Brawl you could dash dance a lot like Melee's DD but was a little slower, and you had to input like 5 dash inputs per DD for it to work properly... and with the risk of tripping it wasnt viable. In Smash 4 there isnt tripping, so it should be able to work the same and be a lot more useful.

A lot of people just didnt know this, and also just tend to ignore any "advanced" stuff in Brawl because it isnt obvious like Melee.

Lol, it was nothing like Melee's dash dance. And only a little slower? Are you ****ting me? It was absurdly slow. Like 3x slower than the melee version. It wasn't the fact that you could trip from it that made it unviable. It was that fact that it was slow and bad

 

[SpiderMad]

People on the Chicago FB group are tellin me its super long line and some people are reconsidering going, but the Champaigne location only has like 20 people but too far for me. LOL they said its only one set-up

Here's the set-up
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd....9_10204036525984288_6853079368360030339_n.jpg

 

[Fortress]

Anybody else notice that Hugs is chiseled now? Dude works out.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'm going to call this game "what Brawl should've been" and play it anyways. Like, good lord. I'm incredibly surprised by the negativity around this, I really am. That and the game's subject to change anyways so we'll see. I'm just gonna recline and have fun. I can play P:M or Melee if I want a competitive game. Brawl was just annoying but this game looks like Brawl if it wasn't annoying.

 

[Fortress]

I'm going to call this game "what Brawl should've been" and play it anyways. Like, good lord. I'm incredibly surprised by the negativity around this, I really am. That and the game's subject to change anyways so we'll see. I'm just gonna recline and have fun. I can play P:M or Melee if I want a competitive game. Brawl was just annoying but this game looks like Brawl if it wasn't annoying.

This. I hate that this opinion gets shot down so much, too. "It's not Brawl 2.0 gawd". It's like, no reaction to Smash 4 is the correct one. Also ran into a Brawl player who wrote PM off as an 'irrelevant fanboy mod', to which I replied with their tournament entry numbers versus ours.

This is a war, Smash Brothers 4. Sorry USFIV, I still love you.

 

[Ripple]

Its so nice to live in champaign. I'm getting in line again

 

[TRJV]

 

[standardtoaster]

So was it a good idea for me to blow off the demo and go to a casino instead? lmao

 

[goodoldganon]

Why is Project:M still the best looking Smash game? Why is this game so good? I miss this community sometimes and I look forward to your reactions about the game people!

 

[9bit]

People on the Chicago FB group are tellin me its super long line and some people are reconsidering going, but the Champaigne location only has like 20 people but too far for me. LOL they said its only one set-up

Here's the set-up
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd....9_10204036525984288_6853079368360030339_n.jpg

Oh really? Man I was already considering not going. Probably just gonna skip it I guess...

 

[Saito]

So was it a good idea for me to blow off the demo and go to a casino instead? lmao

No.

You could be doing important research instead of winning hundreds of dollars. ;_;

 

[Spiffykins]

I'm trying to come up with cocktails based on Smash characters. I can't think of anything for Marth or Falco.

For instance: Peach is a Long Island Ice Tea (using peach tea), Captain Falcon is Falcon Punch (fruit punch and rum), and Roy is a shot lit on fire (t3h ph1r3). You know, just **** that plays off them as characters in some way.

But Marth and Falco are being lame and not revealing their cocktails to me :3 For Marth I'm thinking something about his tipper system or the Ken Combo. For Falco: pillaring.

For Falco, you should make a blue drink that glows under blacklight.

Cuz, y'know. Shine.

And you have to dair people to drink it. (cuz dair = dare jokes NEVER get old)

 

[9bit]

For Falco, you should make a blue drink that glows under blacklight.

Cuz, y'know. Shine.

And you have to dair people to drink it. (cuz dair = dare jokes NEVER get old)

Ha. My buddy also came up with the blacklight idea! You guys...

 

[Trinsic]

I'm going to call this game "what Brawl should've been" and play it anyways. Like, good lord. I'm incredibly surprised by the negativity around this, I really am. That and the game's subject to change anyways so we'll see. I'm just gonna recline and have fun. I can play P:M or Melee if I want a competitive game. Brawl was just annoying but this game looks like Brawl if it wasn't annoying.

I'm kind of surprised too. I haven't played it, just watched the invitational tournament, but it looks like fun. I think people are being a bit quick to judge.

The technical complaint stands out to me as weird. So people can't do techs the first time they pick up the game, that's a bad thing? Isn't it supposed to take a little while before we have all that stuff figured out? If you could easily do it the first time you play the game, I don't know if you could really call it a technical skill.

Honestly I'm just happy that the game looks fast again.

 

[HyperrCrow]

I'm not gonna go out to play the demos, but I'm definitely gonna get Smash 4. I'm gonna get it to have some fun with it, cause ZSS looks nice and her final smash is great. Plus, Palutena.

 

[Rᴏb]

If you feel like discussing Smash 4 over at the Smash 4 boards, don't.


You're welcome.

 

[XalchemistX]

I was playing a about 4 matches with samus so far. There is z air cancel

Debating whether to drive 50min to play it, I might see if my friends want to go but they pry won't. I just want to play it solely because of its demo state, in which you won't get another chance to. I'm also well versed in feeling and knowing things like amount of Buffer. Also @ 9bit I think its only the Gamepad controller thing, would you be going to Schaumberg location (which I'd go to)? I could google Elgin and guess but yeah just tell me

I also think the people at the invitational could have played better if they did more early of aerials to autocancel (some other guy in some other thread mentioned this too) though I couldn't tell if they made a lot more moves autocancel windows horrible.

Also with Sakuria, unlike the PMBR, has like one chance (two chances with this demo) to get the game "right" before its supposedly a final version.


It still had a lot of Brawl things like in character remnants and larger DI angles and such, but after just putting a lot of the basic Melee ATs in it definitely became its own game. I appreciated 1.0 for what it was, and I'd say the biggest difference was just the landing detection: which mostly sucked and kept me from playing Falcon but for Marth it was sort of cool for getting Dairs off platforms to land way faster but bad for double aerials obv but kind of better for other SH autocancels to end faster.
Also the 1/2 frame delay they fixed, I still don't think it was that bad or anything. I have some feeling like it could have been making certain things easier. Whatever it was: Pre-release versions, 1.0, and 2.1 all had this amazing feel to movement and such that later versions kind of ruined somehow whether to general mechanics like improved MADodge formula or the character's themselves. I know for sure that Marth was more slidey in certain things in 1.0, but Lucas and Pit (and Ike besides the nerfs themselves) felt better in 2.1 ways and Diddy felt better in 2.5 but in 3.0 they fixed his landing detection problems and thus took out some of the physics changes they had in place to compensate and now he feels worse. Basically I'd just say everyone had and lost some nice feeling slideyness besides possible overall control ability maybe.

I don't think they'll put all that much money into it. And the Smash community is grassroots enough to live through stuff, while good games like Third Strike die off besides the Japanese scene who knows to at least try to keep the good games alive.

Yep, me and others was being told this from two of my friends. One of them was older than us and was just having fun with us, but my other friend made up some of the most BS about experiencing Metal Sonic and it scares me to this day how he was able to straight face lie about it until years later.

I thought it starts after 3? How were you able play

I need to stay updated on twitter and stuff, cus so far I have no clue what the invited people thought of the invitational.

In nintendo world it starts at 9am, and I got there 4 hours early. Nintendo world has it for 5 days instead of 2

 

[SpiderMad]

Nintendo World? Never heard of that

Also yeah I'm not going anymore unless something amazing happens or something, I wonder if one or both of my friends still are. Maybe Saturday they'll have more set-ups

 

[Phan7om]

Lol, it was nothing like Melee's dash dance. And only a little slower? Are you ****ting me? It was absurdly slow. Like 3x slower than the melee version. It wasn't the fact that you could trip from it that made it unviable. It was that fact that it was slow and bad

I hope you're not referring to the Foxtrot back and fourth Brawl's DD lmao. Yeah, that was 3x as slow, but the one im talking about (cancelling your dash into another dash around 15 frames and 3 or so frames later cancelling that into a dash backwards, repeat)(i dont know the frame data just guessing) is faster than 2x, its around 1.6x imo. Dont believe me, play Melee and set the training speed to .5 and DD, its faster than that when frame perfect lmao. But yeah, it was pretty slow, and thats a big part that made it unviable, and with tripping... might as well never use it. Dont know the dash speeds of Smash 4 yet, ima go test it out to see if its a lot better or not.

 

[King of Hoboz]

The speed seems really artificial from the look of it. Faster dashes doesn't mean anything if it doesn't open your options up at all. You're better off just walking still. I'm still waiting for everyone to get back from Best Buy and start posting their research, but the few combos I saw from the invitational seemed very situational/Brawly (like they were easy to escape, but the player just didn't do it). Also, Grand Finals gave me PTSD...please, no ZSS, don't keep zoning me out, you know all I can do is run up and shield it! ;-; It was a textbook example of the Kirby/ZSS match-up from Brawl.

Honestly, I've seen a lot of people trying to defense Smash 4 emphasizing the 'Beta' tag on it, but I have my doubts. As a developer, especially with Nintendo's self-proclaimed model of design, I'd figure one of the earliest things to consider would be the mechanical aspects and the general 'feel'. It'd be foolish to make characters centered around an engine/idea you don't plan to keep.

If this were last year at E3 and we somehow got our hands on this, and they said it was to be released in 2014, I would believe that the engine wouldn't be near final product - but this is 2014, and Nintendo decided their product was close enough to done that they could start showing it off to reputable players and the public. I don't see much chance at this late in development for them to make 'massive' mechanics changes and then re-balance their 40+ cast and edit their stages accordingly.

It's a real shame that in terms of mechanics, all they did was 'again' just look at the old game and strip out whatever was deemed problematic without adding anything. The edge game seems even worse now (or even non-existent at any end), and they 'nerfed' air dodge without (as of yet) providing any substitutes for these removals.

At the least, maybe this will be a good thing for me, since everyone around my area things P:M is dead with Smash 4 comes out- and I like me some P:M.

TL:DR - Smash 4 looks like an even more stripped apart Brawl (Which I don't like), and I wouldn't see much hope for it to change into anything else.

Agh! I had to say this, it's so hard just watching everyone do the same dance and song on all the forum without putting your cents in.

 

[KayB]

Real talk?
I'm super impressed with how Nintendo's handling E3 with Nintendo Treehouse.

Like, when I saw the digital conference I thought that Mario Maker was just a cheap gimmick. On the Nintendo twitch channel, it actually looks promising and fun. The chat was blowing up as the presenters got ****ed up by the levels they made.

 

[TTTTTsd]

It's a real shame that in terms of mechanics, all they did was 'again' just look at the old game and strip out whatever was deemed problematic without adding anything. The edge game seems even worse now (or even non-existent at any end), and they 'nerfed' air dodge without (as of yet) providing any substitutes for these removals.

I think that's the point of this game, really. You don't need to substitute what they removed from Brawl. What they removed was stuff that soured the meta. Brawl's defensive gameplay was panned by melee but Brawl has a competitive niche, or well, it DID. Its dumb elements however mucked it up. This game aims to remove that. I think that, from a design standpoint, it's the best thing they could do if they wanted to keep it like Brawl but not you know, super bad. Just my opinion and all but, yeah. It's no revolution on the wheel or anything but I'll have fun.

 

[Soft Serve]

Zair cancels looks really really hype. I saw whoever played link in that silly celebrity match thing cancel a zair with a nair (probably just spamming but still).

All my sadness died when i realized i couldn't change direction with an airdodge anymore. I was looking forward to doing AGT > Zair cancel bomb pull or something but then i realized it wasn't PM. ;__;

 

[Phan7om]

Yeah, i agree. Ive always said that Smash 4's "noob friendly" feel to the game was going to be that thing that the game is notorious for... similar to Brawl and tripping.

Even tho its a beta, like Hoboz said, i doubt at the last minute they're gonna say "Oh, lets put in directional air dodges" or "Lets add L-cancel". Thats just the false hope everyone is addicted to making everyone afraid of this game, and then complain on the internet when they dont get what they want. They only see what they want to see. And lets be real, even if it is like Brawl, Brawl with no tripping and slightly more hitstun alone would make it a much better game.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Brawl with no tripping and slightly more hitstun alone would make it a much better game.

Honestly, yes. Surviving competitively maybe not, but as a game that would just be more FUN it would work. I like to think that this game is going to be FUN, Brawl stopped being FUN at a certain point, this has mechanics that probably won't prevent me from having fun(likely because of my roots in Smash 64 and its simplicity)

 

[KayB]

I'm secretly very excited for Smash 4 just to see how Mew2King adjusts to the new ledge mechanics.

 

[turtletank]

Add back DD and the ability to crouch out of dash and mobility would increase tenfold. I'm not even fussed about wavedashing anymore, I just want combos.

..I've been a bit anti-hype since the tournament ended, it seemed more Brawl than I had hoped. There is still time for that to change, but dev support just doesn't seem to be there from Sakurai.
Ah well. I'll end up buying the game either way as it still looks incredible. Just sad that I feel sad.

EDIT: Words.

 

[Phan7om]

Brawl stopped being FUN at a certain point.

Idk, maybe this doesnt relate to you but ima say it anyway.

Brawl's mechanics were only half the reason Brawl stopped being fun for most people. Most of the smash community as a whole was the other half of the reason Brawl is on its death bed... but I better stop myself before I get out of hand. Thats another topic for another day.

 

[Saito]

I think that's the point of this game, really. You don't need to substitute what they removed from Brawl. What they removed was stuff that soured the meta. Brawl's defensive gameplay was panned by melee but Brawl has a competitive niche, or well, it DID. Its dumb elements however mucked it up. This game aims to remove that. I think that, from a design standpoint, it's the best thing they could do if they wanted to keep it like Brawl but not you know, super bad. Just my opinion and all but, yeah. It's no revolution on the wheel or anything but I'll have fun.

I don't think crouch out of a dash was a dumb element at all...

Add DD and CC and mobility would increase tenfold. I'm not even fussed about wavedashing anymore, I just want combos.

I have no qualms with crouch cancelling being gone if you meant that by CC.

 

[King of Hoboz]

I think that's the point of this game, really. You don't need to substitute what they removed from Brawl. What they removed was stuff that soured the meta. Brawl's defensive gameplay was panned by melee but Brawl has a competitive niche, or well, it DID. Its dumb elements however mucked it up. This game aims to remove that. I think that, from a design standpoint, it's the best thing they could do if they wanted to keep it like Brawl but not you know, super bad. Just my opinion and all but, yeah. It's no revolution on the wheel or anything but I'll have fun.

I'll just casually disagree with that. After starting my career in Brawl and shifting to P:M, I think that the sour elements of Brawl were its core principles in its pacing. I found myself winning or losing primarily in a war of attrition because Brawl lacked mechanics to take or maintain advantage. I'd say most of us who stopped having fun with Brawl did mostly because of mechanics that Smash 4 does not seem to be addressing.

Though, this comes from a guy who's bitter about Brawl now, so take it how you will.

Personally! I was/am hoping that Smash 4 would become the SFIV of its series. Simplistic, but competitive with a clear progression as a player. (Another problem I had with Brawl, I could never tell if I or anyone improved/was good very readily)

 

[SpiderMad]

I got like a hundred tabs open, so much things to read especially from people bringing up mechanics I have to re-research details on

 

[Fortress]

Dash Dancing is the one thing that would sell me on Smash 4. Simply turning around feels like too committal of an action, with the choices available being shield > roll, which is punishable, or jump, which is punishable. If B-Reversing is still in, that could alleviate things a bit, but I still think DD'ing opens up a huge depth to the game without overcomplicating it.