Project M Social Thread Gold

[DrinkingFood]

late to the party but wavebounce is the stupidest name ever

and I'm also not sure it's even deserving of a unique name
it's just using two different ATs one after the other
but if you're going to give it a name at least choose something not awful

I hate it being called a wavebounce too
I couldn't give two ****s if it has a history of a name, brawl is brawl and this is PM
wavebounce says nothing and doesn't even fit the common etymology of the "wave-" suffix as used in smash
Reverse-B reversal makes more sense and is more descriptive
Turnaround B-reversal is just as good and is a conglomerate of turnaround special and B-reversal
both have more definitive abbreviations than WB
take your pick

 

[#HBC | Joker]

i think the PM community should decide once and for all, if MR Game & Watch's Short Hop Double Bacon should be renamed to iHopping, courtesy of whoever the **** said it first over in the gnw boards

I've always called it the "Double Bacon Short Hop"....

 

[Saito]

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I don't mind the name wavebounce.

I think the reason there are so many silly AT names is because of the newer audience Brawl brought here. At Brawl's release, many people who started playing it competitively thought DI was just moving around in the air.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I don't mind the name wavebounce.

I think the reason there are so many silly AT names is because of the newer audience Brawl brought here. At Brawl's release, many people who started playing it competitively thought DI was just moving around in the air.

That's not technically wrong... all it is, is influencing the direction of your movement while airborne. It's just that it's generally more important when it comes to the survival aspect.

 

[TreK]

I'll take criticism on brawl ATs names when you guys make up your mind on what is crouch cancelling, and what isn't.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

That's not technically wrong... all it is, is influencing the direction of your movement while airborne. It's just that it's generally more important when it comes to the survival aspect.

No, it is wrong. DI is assuming you're getting hit.

People would be like "oh if you throw them and then jump and DI to your left you could do..."

Edit: Now you're making me doubt myself. pls.

 

[Kati]

i think the PM community should decide once and for all, if MR Game & Watch's Short Hop Double Bacon should be renamed to iHopping, courtesy of whoever the **** said it first over in the gnw boards

Considering the bacon is a lie, this makes a whole lot more sense.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

No, it is wrong. DI is assuming you're getting hit.

People would be like "oh if you throw them and then jump and DI to your left you could do..."

Edit: Now you're making me doubt myself. pls.

You don't need to be hit. You're talking about Combo DI, and Survival DI.

DI is a very broad concept, you can absolutely DI a jump.

 

[Soft Serve]

Link to video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsHyBVSPvAI#t=15

 

[KuroganeHammer]

You don't need to be hit. You're talking about Combo DI, and Survival DI.

DI is a very broad concept, you can absolutely DI a jump.

This is news to me.

/smash veteran + old smash lab member

 

[#HBC | Joker]

This is news to me.

/smash veteran + old smash lab member

DI means Directional Influence. Can you influence the direction of a jump, mid jump? Yep. I don't see where the confusion is coming from.

If you were telling someone to jump forward at someone, fair them, and fade back to the same spot they started on, could you not describe that as DI? Jump forward, DI back, yes?

 

[DrinkingFood]

You don't need to be hit. You're talking about Combo DI, and Survival DI.

DI is a very broad concept, you can absolutely DI a jump.

but that's wrong.
Holding a direction while in the air, not getting hit, is just drifting. It doesn't even really need a name.
Combo DI and Survival DI are named as such only to distinguish them from each other, not because there's something else.
Those aren't even really formal names, they're just used as ways to dinstinguish concepts of the goal of DIing certain ways.
Take the literal meaning of a phrase and saying "Is it this? Yes? Then the phrase means that" isn't applicable when the phrase is only ever used to refer to a specific example of something.

 

[Fortress]

DI means Directional Influence. Can you influence the direction of a jump, mid jump? Yep. I don't see where the confusion is coming from.

I completely disagree. Air control =/= DI. DI takes place during the frames you're being attacked, and involves altering where're you're going to go. It's always been that way. Whomever changed up the Smashwiki page on DI really ****ing butchered what it used to be.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm pretty sure the above two posts are right.

Historically I have never, ever seen the word DI used for movement in air without being attacked by either the Smash Lab, the BBR or... anyone else really.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

But DI is a product of having air control. The fact that the engine is designed to allow for control in the air is what causes DI to exist. The only kind of DI that actually requires for you to be hit is SDI. It actually blows my mind that people think otherwise.

 

[Fortress]

But DI is a product of having air control. The fact that the engine is designed to allow for control in the air is what causes DI to exist. The only kind of DI that actually requires for you to be hit is SDI. It actually blows my mind that people think otherwise.

You would think so, but you'd be wrong. And you are.

DI has nothing to do with aerial control, only altering where your character will be sent flying before they get sent flying. SDI, on the other hand, is altering the physical space that your character occupies before they get sent flying. All DI takes place during the frames just after being attacked. Air control is a completely separate mechanic with no real name.

GG, no re.

 

[GP&B]

I'll take criticism on brawl ATs names when you guys make up your mind on what is crouch cancelling, and what isn't.

I thought that was pretty well defined. There's dash canceling (which I always thought was crouch canceling), but crouch canceling is specifically reducing knockback through a combination of ASDI while crouching. From what I remember, I saw a video on Brawl about trying to define electric hitlag canceling through crouch as crouch canceling, which is partially correct but highly misleading.

Also, aerial control outside of hitstun uses your character's horizontal air speed to move around whereas DI is specifically related to how your trajectory is altered after receiving knockback. It's much easier to simply refer to DI in this form rather than use it for both.

 

[Fortress]

I thought that was pretty well defined. There's dash canceling (which I always thought was crouch canceling), but crouch canceling is specifically reducing knockback through a combination of ASDI while crouching. From what I remember, I saw a video on Brawl about trying to define electric hitlag canceling through crouch as crouch canceling, which is partially correct but highly misleading.

Crouch cancel has historically been defined as SD/DI'ing down such that knockback is reduced, so your definition of a 'dash cancel' (cancelling a dash with a crouch) is correct.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ GP&B idk what you mean but crouch cancelling exists in brawl, the only thing it does is reduce hitlag by like 30%

not very useful considering the drawbacks

 

[DrinkingFood]

But DI is a product of having air control. The fact that the engine is designed to allow for control in the air is what causes DI to exist. The only kind of DI that actually requires for you to be hit is SDI. It actually blows my mind that people think otherwise.

? THAT's not how it works at all
Air control/drifting is achieved by the game applying momentum to your character based on their air mobility (and how far you hold stick determines what percent of a character's max air mobility is used), max air speed, and air friction values
Trajectory DI (regular DI) is achieved by the game applying a formula to the location of your control sick in its potential circle of movement vs the launch angle of the move, then changing the launch angle by the 0-18 result in either direction
Smash DI is achieved by the game counting the number of smash inputs during hitlag, applying the SDI multiplier to that, and changing you position by the number of units/pixels resulting from that equation
Automatic smash DI is achieved by the game looking at the position of the c-stick/control stick (c stick having priority) and applying the SDI multiplier to that and changing character position by the number of units/pixels that results
Who informed you so badly? Thanks for making me type all this up on a touchscreen keyboard to correct you...

 

[Plum]

I'll take criticism on brawl ATs names when you guys make up your mind on what is crouch cancelling, and what isn't.

we have?

Crouch canceling is the reduction of knockback that you take from attacks when your character is physically crouching.
I guess it can be confused with ASDI-Down, which works in tandem with crouch canceling, but ASDI is its own mechanic.

Maybe there's confusion because some people call canceling your dash with a crouch crouch canceling... but that's crazy talk... just call that dash canceling and problem solved?

 

[GP&B]

@ GP&B idk what you mean but crouch cancelling exists in brawl, the only thing it does is reduce hitlag by like 30%

not very useful considering the drawbacks

Okay so that's what it is then. I guess the term does apply, just with different properties.

 

[Plum]

oh gosh what happened with this post
smashboards pls

 

[Strong Badam]

That's not technically wrong... all it is, is influencing the direction of your movement while airborne. It's just that it's generally more important when it comes to the survival aspect.

no
that's called drifting

DI is specifically influencing the trajectory an attack sends you, and nothing else.

SDI is a terrible term and I wish it was named something else like Positional Influence or something.

 

[DrinkingFood]

It's okay SB, 17 other people and me already told him
Somebody on the internet was wrong about something
But we corrected him
Everything Is gonna be alright
In fact, it's already shaping up to be a great day, and it's only 4 am

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Thanks for making me type all this up on a touchscreen keyboard to correct you...

turn that frown upside down and be happy that you can teach someone something new!

we're all here for the advancement of knowledge and a passive aggressive comment like this can really put a damper on things.

 

[Fortress]

a passive aggressive comment like this can really put a damper on things.

Where've you been for my entire Smashboards existence?

 

[Soft Serve]

we have?
Maybe there's confusion because some people call canceling your dash with a crouch crouch canceling... but that's crazy talk... just call that dash canceling and problem solved?

nope, technically ZSS has a "dash cancel-able" blaster. as well as the fact you can't actually crouch to cancel a dash, only the run... So I guess crouch canceling, dash canceling, and then run canceling (? crouch canceling b? running crouch?) all have to exist -.-

 

[DrinkingFood]

If you want aero I can just be straight up aggressive
**** all you posters and **** i'ma go listen to some linkin park

Spoiler

amidoinitrite

 

[Fortress]

**** all you posters and **** i'ma go listen to some linkin park

Spoiler

amidoinitrite

Linkin Park? 'Doinitrite'? Only if it's Meteora or Hybrid Theory.

Electric Six. Get on my level.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Where've you been for my entire Smashboards existence?

since your join date pretty much hiding in the staff forums organizing people =P

Everything's settled down and I've picked up Project M so you'll all be seeing more of me 'round these parts.

Spoiler

amidoinitrite

yeah you ****ing are mate

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I know all the stuff about how DI and SDI and **** work, it just honestly never occurred to me that air control/drifting, a mechanic that also influences the direction you move based on the position of your control stick, couldn't possibly be considered some form of DI. You say "that would be confusing", but it never was in my head. You move control stick, you influence direction. Like, that's the whole reason I figured out that DI was a thing back when Smash64 came out when I was 12. It actually blows my mind that every single person who ever played the game, casual or not, didn't know about DI for that very reason.

 

[Fortress]

Like, that's the whole reason I figured out that DI was a thing back when Smash64 came out when I was 12.

Well, technically, SDI is the only form of DI that exists in Smash 64.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Well, technically, SDI is the only form of DI that exists in Smash 64.

You've gotta be kidding me? You're shattering my world view with this one.

Well 12 year old me always tried to DI things, and in my head, it was always working. It was a habit that served me well when moving on to future smash games.

 

[Fortress]

You've gotta be kidding me? You're shattering my world view with this one.

Well 12 year old me always tried to DI things, and in my head, it was always working. It was a habit that served me well when moving on to future smash games.

I'm not. SDI is the only form of DI in 64. Go test it out on an emulator right now, you'll see.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I'm not. SDI is the only form of DI in 64. Go test it out on an emulator right now, you'll see.

It may surprise you to hear that the guy who didn't know that, does not have an N64 emulator or SSB64 rom, because he doesn't play the game anymore.

I do have my old N64 around here somewhere, and I totally have a copy of the game, but I'm not digging those out at 6am to test something.

Hell, I barely sit down and play PM in my own spare time, and that's the game I "actively play". I really only play at weekly smashfests these days. I've become quite the casual.

 

[TreK]

nope, technically ZSS has a "dash cancel-able" blaster. as well as the fact you can't actually crouch to cancel a dash, only the run... So I guess crouch canceling, dash canceling, and then run canceling (? crouch canceling b? running crouch?) all have to exist -.-

Ah, I ask them for a better term and they give me a worse one.
I guess we're all guilty of giving stupid names to ATs.

Positionnal influence makes sense though.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Ah, I ask them for a better term and they give me a worse one.
I guess we're all guilty of giving stupid names to ATs.

Positionnal influence makes sense though.

it might make more sense but you'd be absolutely crazy if you think that anyone would start using it

Smash DI is too ingrained in the community

 

[MechWarriorNY]

You fools are all-too-willing to argue about ANYTHING to it's logical extreme.
That's not a good thing.