Project M Social Thread Gold

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Project M Social, where all we talk about are and Netplay.

 

[Bleck]

you get that noise outta here

 

[trash?]

when you get into a situation like Gengar -- where, with your new fancy ability, you basically have the same held item you'd usually have anyways, and you get even better stats, in a character that was already amazing? nah, mega evolutions are thoughtless. the closest to thought you're getting is "oh welp, guess I have to have at least ONE pokemon who can mega evolve", which is more limiting than anything else

I don't keep up with Smogon's tier lists, because I'm not a goddamn sperglord.

oh, so you're just whining about something you never bothered to actually partake in, my b

 

[Bleck]

when you get into a situation like Gengar -- where, with your new fancy ability, you basically have the same held item you'd usually have anyways

There are no hold items that prevent opponents from switching out.

oh, so you're just whining about something you never bothered to actually partake in, my b

Smogon hasn't been worth giving a damn about since they decided a metagame revolving entirely around Stealth Rock was a good idea.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

regigigas actually has pretty great stats, it's just that you have to set up an entire concept around him for it to work, and god help you if the other team has even one fighting-type move that can laugh through his bulk

he's high input needed for a decent output, in a game with characters that only need decent input for amazing output

This though. in truth he has pretty damn good stats. the problem however is that he has such a **** ability. Slowstart is such a piss-off because it cut's both your attack and speed by half, so u basically have to hold it out for 5 turns. So i truth he's pretty crappy in singles...... but I love him in doubles. I just skill swap with regi and BOOM....... he's awesome again.

 

[Vashimus]

The worst part is that Regigigas cannot learn Rest or Protect , which makes stalling for those 5 turns much harder than it otherwise should be.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Yea.... they gave him zero ways of safely surviving 5 turns (no rest or protect). I usually just call him in with a substitute-baton pass.

 

[Warchamp7]

Meet my cat

 

[Zeallyx]

"This Pokemon or mechanic makes the game too centralizing and makes X, Y, and Z Pokemon virtually unviable, but we were totally fine with Stealth Rock for two gens even though every team is will run it while Rock-weak Pokemon, especially those 4x weak, are forced to team up with a spinner just to stay alive."

Manaphy was ridiculous under perma-rain, so it got banned. Thundurus was ridiculous under perma-rain (among other things), so he got banned. Tornadus-T was ridiculous in perma-rain (among other things) and was banned. Keldeo's been suspected multiple times because it's ridiculous in perma-rain. Swift Swimmers were ridiculous in rain, so let's just ban Drizzle and Swift Swim from being used on the same team. Were they really this desperate to keep Drizzle in OU when it was obviously an overcentralizing force by itself? Just ban Drizzle and things like this wouldn't happen. Rain was the most dominant weather, and every team had to prepare for it and/or pack a weather-inducer just to stand a chance. Hell, Gastrodon was only useful in OU BECAUSE of how good it dealt with perma-rain, not because it was a good Pokemon on its own merits. I know it must be hard for them to part with their precious rain-stall team they peaked the ladder with, but if something is toxic to the metagame, you get rid of it, not beat around the bush. Thank goodness GameFreak took matters into their own hands and removed permanent weather, otherwise we'd still be playing Gen 5 OU, guest starring Gen 6 pokes.

I'll agree with Plum though that they've done a solid job with this gen. So far.

Those are some good points, but I can't help but feel that those are oversimplifications of the entire process of decision making that contributed to gen 5 OU.

I might be a bit naive (+Sp, - Sp. D) though.

 

[| Kailex |]

Anyone other than me excited about J-Stars?

 

[Comeback Kid]

Anyone other than me excited about J-Stars?

Man, I love those classic anime from my childhood, especially Yu Yu and Kenshin. But I'm not going to get excited by this until I see an international release date, and it doesn't look like we're getting that anytime soon if at all.

 

[Soft Serve]

Anyone other than me excited about J-Stars?

If this game doesn't get localized i'm going to kill someone.

 

[Vashimus]

No Moka no buy.

 

[Comeback Kid]

No Moka no buy.

This is an action fighting game not a dating sim for monsters.

 

[9bit]

Meet my cat

I see what you have done there.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Imma import Jump stars if they don't localize it.

If this game doesn't get localized i'm going to kill someone.

Honestly.... its the one game that NEEDS to get localized. Speaking of games, did anyone buy Battle Of Z? if so is it any good?

 

[Gamegenie222]

Speaking of amazing pokemon that are straight amazing on paper but because of their abilities they are straight ass Slacking and Archeops. Man those pokes are but those abilities suck.

As for electric types who are good no one can deny the use of Rotom Wash man this poke is everywhere and I hate this thing.

 

[zman804]

There is zero chance it's coming state side. Over in the west, different publishers have the rights to different characters. Same reason Jump Ultimate Stars never came stateside

 

[Blade-Fox]

Would that even sell well enough over here for them to consider bringing it stateside?

 

[Plum]

I don't keep up with Smogon's tier lists, because I'm not a goddamn sperglord.

Mega evolution is a mechanic whereupon you sacrifice a significant thing - held item - for bigger stats and a different ability. It's an interesting mechanic because you have to weigh the pros and cons. You have to strategize. You have to actually think.

Legal legendaries may not have statpools quite as large as some legendaries, but they also get access to those pools at all times, for free - and they're not limited to one per team/battle. They're just Big Numbers, whereas megapokemon are Big Numbers With A Price. I'd much rather see a metagame dominated by megaevolutions than I would one dominated by snoozefest legendaries.

wat
The OU metagame is basically never dominated by legendaries regardless of which generation you're looking at.
Do they play a part in the metagame? Sure. But no more so than the other Pokemon that GF blessed with high stats and deep movepools.
Hell, the metagame has been dominated more by Pokemon like Scizor in the past than it has by "insert non-Uber legendary here."

And you admit yourself that you don't keep up with this stuff, so how can you even know?

"This Pokemon or mechanic makes the game too centralizing and makes X, Y, and Z Pokemon virtually unviable, but we were totally fine with Stealth Rock for two gens even though every team is will run it while Rock-weak Pokemon, especially those 4x weak, are forced to team up with a spinner just to stay alive."

Manaphy was ridiculous under perma-rain, so it got banned. Thundurus was ridiculous under perma-rain (among other things), so he got banned. Tornadus-T was ridiculous in perma-rain (among other things) and was banned. Keldeo's been suspected multiple times because it's ridiculous in perma-rain. Swift Swimmers were ridiculous in rain, so let's just ban Drizzle and Swift Swim from being used on the same team. Were they really this desperate to keep Drizzle in OU when it was obviously an overcentralizing force by itself? Just ban Drizzle and things like this wouldn't happen. Rain was the most dominant weather, and every team had to prepare for it and/or pack a weather-inducer just to stand a chance. Hell, Gastrodon was only useful in OU BECAUSE of how good it dealt with perma-rain, not because it was a good Pokemon on its own merits. I know it must be hard for them to part with their precious rain-stall team they peaked the ladder with, but if something is toxic to the metagame, you get rid of it, not beat around the bush. Thank goodness GameFreak took matters into their own hands and removed permanent weather, otherwise we'd still be playing Gen 5 OU, guest starring Gen 6 pokes.

I'll agree with Plum though that they've done a solid job with this gen. So far.

This so hard. I play with the Smogon rulings because the other competitive ruleset is Nintendo's VGC but they use doubles for the format which I'm not a fan of personally. So if you want competitive singles play you basically have to use the Smogon rules, for better or worse. Last gen ended up being a total mess.

I would compare it to WotC and how they ban cards in MtG, particularly in relation to combo decks. Many years ago WotC was faced with many broken decks using Necropotence, perhaps the most powerful card drawing engine ever printed. Instead of banning Necropotence they banned many of the cards that were being used in conjunction with it; needless to say the deck they just tried to kill through bannings was just replaced by another broken Necropotence deck. After a couple attempts of not banning Necropotence they got their **** together and banned the card that was enabling all these broken decks to work in the first place.
From that point forward they have banned the enabler not the enabled. You ban Survival of the Fittest not Vengevine, ban Flash not Protean Hulk, etc.
Last gen Smogon basically did what WotC did with Necropotence. They banned each and every thing that made Rain a problem rather than Rain itself. You could just ban Rain and have a small, more elegant banlist but instead you end up with a convoluted mess.
GameFreak fixed weather themselves this gen thankfully, otherwise I would fear we would have had the same BS.
Also thank you based GameFreak for the Defog buff making Stealth Rock a million times easier deal with. Having some x4 weak Pokemon being big players in OU this gen is a great feeling.

 

[Oro?!]

Did I really see the teacher from assassination classroom in J Stars? Lmao that would be great.

Why do people still play pokemon singles, i mean switch battles the game? It's not even officially supported and everything is balanced around doubles. Smogon makes arbitrary ban lists for things that are non issue and have a lot of workarounds lol.

 

[Soft Serve]

I don't like official game freak metagames because there is no sleep clause and the like. I don't really want to go into a VGC match and all of a sudden I'm trying to play a trick room team against a mega-kanga and spore fest team.

 

[Oro?!]

Btw I'm genuinely curious as to why people play singles.

Do you really feel there is no workaround for sleep or mega-kanga when you have 2 pokes?

 

[Warchamp7]

Meet my cat

 

[Jolteon]

Did I really see the teacher from assassination classroom in J Stars? Lmao that would be great.

Why do people still play pokemon singles, i mean switch battles the game? It's not even officially supported and everything is balanced around doubles. Smogon makes arbitrary ban lists for things that are non issue and have a lot of workarounds lol.

Why do people still play 4 stock/8 minutes/no items, I mean edge guarding the game? It's not even officially supported and everything is balanced around free for alls. People should use Gamestop rules.

Answer: One ruleset is awful, the other isn't.

 

[Plum]

I play singles because that's how I grew up playing Pokemon (being that doubles wasn't a thing until gen III), and also because that's how you spend a majority of your ingame time battling. The Pokemon experience, at least to me, is all about singles play and it's the experience I wanted when I got into competitive play in gen III.
I think it's great that doubles is a thing, and that there's a thriving community for doubles ala VGC, but it's just not my style.

 

[Bryonato]

SO META

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Did I really see the teacher from assassination classroom in J Stars? Lmao that would be great.

Why do people still play pokemon singles, i mean switch battles the game? It's not even officially supported and everything is balanced around doubles. Smogon makes arbitrary ban lists for things that are non issue and have a lot of workarounds lol.

Im guessing u mean Koro-sensei? if so then YUP.

Spore everyone.

 

[SuperMarioKarter]

I just want J-stars to get localized because it's a game where I can beat up other shonen characters as Joseph Joestar.

 

[Empyrean]

@ Warchamp7 I notice that you are not using the Project M theme for Smashboards. Why did you have to do this to us?? You only had one responsibility...

 

[Oro?!]

Why do people still play 4 stock/8 minutes/no items, I mean edge guarding the game? It's not even officially supported and everything is balanced around free for alls. People should use Gamestop rules.

Answer: One ruleset is awful, the other isn't.

Idk, I see the amount of viable pokes/strategies/movesets and just options in general greatly outweighs any negative connotation. The same skillset necessary to play singles is required, but it's expanded much deeper.

 

[Vashimus]

This is an action fighting game not a dating sim for monsters.

Psh. You best know your place, boy.

 

[Yung Mei]

Oh **** are we talking about monster girls now?

Who's read Monster Musume no iru Nichijou? Mia best girl, Cerea 2nd, Rachnee 3rd everyone else is wack

alice in Monster Girl Quest is the best girl too


also, i placed 9th at gc a couple days ago, losing to vish in losers

 

[Comeback Kid]

Vashimus, I found the perfect show for you:

 

[SwagTrain]

Guys sleep in TR is broken when there's no Sleep Clause. There's no way to stop an Amoongus/M-Kang core once TR is up. Not even Lum Berry, Safeguard, Taunt, Ferrothorn, Gourgeist, Trevenant... man, it's like TR is super-easy to set up now.

But wait, there's more! The competitive metagame for Smash isn't what the game creators intended, yes, but does GameStop consistently hold tournaments and hand out prizes? No? What? TCPI actually supports their official format and hands out prizes and travel stipends to their winners like the Smash community does with its grassroots? Whoa. Wait, what's this? People actually congregate in one place for VGC but I can't remember the last time there was a singles tournament ever that paid out to the winners? WAIT - APEX USED VGC BECAUSE IT'S THE BETTER FORMAT?! JEBHFLQUEIRFUHUCQEWHUNQEWFQUEIBFGVLAIF I want my Smogon singles dammit!

This just in, it's more likely that Sakurai balanced the game around playing it however you want, thus why you can play with 2, 3, or 4 players, why Classic mode has 2v2 and 1v1 segments, why you can turn items on and off, and why you can set the mode of play. I highly doubt this game was intended for FFA's or 1v1's. It was made to be played however the player wants to play it, whether it be 1v1's with Smash Balls only, FFA's with no items, or Coin Mode with only Fans on and a knock back ratio of .6. And, because that's the way it was designed, the competitive players designed a rule set to best fit Smash as a competitive game. And even then, rules are different based on location and they evolve. Stage lists, banning methods, etc.. are usually a little varied based on location, but there are a couple things that stay the same (for each individual game, of course), and that's the # of stocks and time limit, and it is that way because 1) it's been that way for years, and 2) the competitive Smash community continues to support those two very basic rules and not attempt to change them or try something different for whatever reasons they have.

tl;dr1 - Just because Sakurai didn't want the series to be competitive doesn't mean he didn't balance the game around FFA's AND 1v1's due to the support of both formats in the games themselves.

tl;dr2 - Read this because Apex used VGC rules and not Smogon rules #swag

 

[Jolteon]

Idk, I see the amount of viable pokes/strategies/movesets and just options in general greatly outweighs any negative connotation. The same skillset necessary to play singles is required, but it's expanded much deeper.

This is not true at all, doubles is a totally different metagame and until VGC was a thing it was EXTREMELY unpopular. It's one thing that Smogon rules aren't "official" but you can't tell me you honestly believe that Nintendo are good at making rulesets lol. It would be like if Nintendo started to run their own Smash circuit with 2 minute free-for-alls with items. Like sure, it's "official" but you're playing a vastly inferior format.

 

[Warchamp7]

Side note, apologies for the broken ass Vine stuff the last ~15 minutes. Was working on a fix for some incorrect behaviour

@ Warchamp7 I notice that you are not using the Project M theme for Smashboards. Why did you have to do this to us?? You only had one responsibility...

I switch around all the time

 

[zman804]

Did I really see the teacher from assassination classroom in J Stars? Lmao that would be great.

Why do people still play pokemon singles, i mean switch battles the game? It's not even officially supported and everything is balanced around doubles. Smogon makes arbitrary ban lists for things that are non issue and have a lot of workarounds lol.

Why do people still play SmashBros, I mean wavedash the game? Nintendo tried to get it banned from evo and those tournyfags still play it. They make arbitrary stage and items bans instead of dealing with the randomness and using it to their advantage.

 

[Nausicaa]

The Lego Movie is good.
I like it.

 

[Bleck]

Yeah basically Singles is a crappy format and if you're defending Smogon's dumb nonsense because it's the only way to play Singles then well all I can say is good luck, have fun.