Project M Social Thread Gold

[TTTTTsd]

Are you implying that it wasn't ever PMS versus the world here?

Tangentially unrelated but yo I remember you homie! Nice to see you're still around and stuff. This is kinda nostalgic and nice, really.

 

[Fortress]

PM is gonna die guys, now that all these whiny as ******* got a hold of the most recent Dev Build, theyre gonna start releasing their own **** versions of PM

its gonna be just like Brawl+

Putting money down that Sword Ganondorf is going to replace at least three of the characters.

 

[Fortress]

Tangentially unrelated but yo I remember you homie! Nice to see you're still around and stuff. This is kinda nostalgic and nice, really.

What, did I go somewhere?

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

Honestly, all I want is just them to take the stuff from the dev builds, then fix the bugs. Leave the balance alone, leave the game alone, fix what we have (I couldn't stand seeing those characters going to waste, I've wanted Isaac in Smash for years.)..

 

[Ripple]

Wait, people who didn't develop the game for are planning on developing it now? That's laughable.

oh you mean like every DT member that was just added this past month?

this is a really stupid comment even excluding PM in general because things have to start again somewhere for basically anything. well, they don't HAVE to. but you know what I mean.

 

[TTTTTsd]

What, did I go somewhere?

Nah I just haven't been around frequently or as much, it's nice to see people I used to interact with more frequently and stuff. It's a shame I decided to come back at like the WORST possible time (started practicing PM legit 2 days before the notice and the removal occurred. Kinda ****ty lol)

 

[Fortress]

Nah I just haven't been around frequently or as much, it's nice to see people I used to interact with more frequently and stuff. It's a shame I decided to come back at like the WORST possible time (started practicing PM legit 2 days before the notice and the removal occurred. Kinda ****ty lol)

What makes this the worst time? I have 3.6, MKX, and GG all running right now. It's not as if anybody's going to come in and shut off my Wii, now or later. I honestly couldn't care less about events. I can still play PM, who cares if it's not getting updates anymore? On top of that, it'll be nice to see the DT getting to do their own thing without being under Ninty and Melee's shadows.

things have to start again somewhere for basically anything. well, they don't HAVE to. but you know what I mean.

Pick one or the other.

ST basically set the standard for 2D fighters, but you don't see people trying to add the SFIV cast to it. It's fine to not get development for a game.

 

[Rhubarbo]

It is ridiculous to blame the people who people draw misinterpretation from rather than said boneheads who misunderstand.
Everyone should understand they are new and unproven.
The team should do what they may to acknowledge that and help everyone understand, however to say they ought do nothing is holding a moral imperative where there is none. Oh, if you would explain where the imperative came from the first place that'd be awesome.
No, a higher imperative would be not to cater to those who do not understand, but instead help them to understand the fragemented nature of this community going forward.
We all have our policy plans, but you ultimately must acknowledge that yours might not be any better in a concrete sense than the one we have given the fundamental uncertainty of the future. Regardless, to impose a particular policy is ultimately detrimental because it doesn't allow the experimentation with other policies.
Also please explain where this monopoly, which I'm gonna guess is where the earlier imperative comes from, gets 'deserved.'

You've made it abundantly clear that you're taking first year philosophy, but have you tried economics yet? Maybe next semester. Everyone won't empathize with developers who keep putting out shoddy content, especially if they toss out experimental builds on a nightly basis. Repeatedly showing fans new, mediocre content and begging them to put up with it ("please understand") won't work - yes, even after you type up an essay explaining why it's the most rational way to approach the situation. It didn't work in 2008 when Brawl Plus was at the forefront of the Brawl modding scene. That mod was laughed off by competitive players for having no clear direction. Project M swooped in, offered a slower but clearer development plan, it earned everyone's favour, and delivered the nail to Plus's coffin, with a neutered character roster at that. No, the laissez-faire approach to development didn't work years ago, when the scene was new and people were expecting low quality content., so it certainly won't work after the PMDT has raised the stakes so high.

I don't actually endorse quarterly PMDT indie festivals, just restraint.

 

[TTTTTsd]

What makes this the worst time? I have 3.6, MKX, and GG all running right now. It's not as if anybody's going to come in and shut off my Wii, now or later. I honestly couldn't care less about events. I can still play PM, who cares if it's not getting updates anymore? On top of that, it'll be nice to see the DT getting to do their own thing without being under Ninty and Melee's shadows.

Nah it's the worst time cause of the community drama, not the game or the DT themselves. Haha, it has nothing to do with 3.6 at all! I just wish I didn't come back to, well, chaos. It seems to have calmed down a good bit though, so I'm a little less cautious.

 

[DBZHedgy]

https://www.facebook.com/Mewtwo2000/posts/724185831014518
The truth is that it has not been a responsive action, but a preventive one. Certain event (which, again, doesn't involve a company contacting the PMDT) made the members fear a legal problem if the project kept on.

C'mon. It seems a bit too obvious that it has something to do with Smash Wii U's direct, since Smash Brothers is the only games' rights that Project M is infringing upon.

I'm not the only one who thinks that right? ? ?

 

[Fortress]

Nah it's the worst time cause of the community drama, not the game or the DT themselves. Haha, it has nothing to do with 3.6 at all! I just wish I didn't come back to, well, chaos. It seems to have calmed down a good bit though, so I'm a little less cautious.

It's Project M. Drama's practically been in the name since the beginning.

 

[Kurri ★]

love songs like this right now. similar songs would be great if people know any

Here's more by the same artists

 

[MLGF]

After hearing everything, I think I'll stick with 3.6 now.

I mean, I'd love Knuckles, but really that's the only thing worth it from the dev build.

 

[TTTTTsd]

It's Project M. Drama's practically been in the name since the beginning.

For sure, for sure, but I've never felt the divide so strong, man. It hurts a little. I'll move past it I'm sure, but I'm at least determined to stick around in PMS for a while now, wouldn't feel right if I didn't at this point.

After hearing everything, I think I'll stick with 3.6 now.

I mean, I'd love Knuckles, but really that's the only thing worth it from the dev build.

3.6 vanilla should be the default tournament build period. No alterations. Personal use builds are totally fine with having whatever though, but I agree. Our tournaments should have 3.6 going forward to respect the wishes of the Dev Team and to, well, be stable I guess.

 

[Fortress]

For sure, for sure, but I've never felt the divide so strong, man. It hurts a little. I'll move past it I'm sure, but I'm at least determined to stick around in PMS for a while now, wouldn't feel right if I didn't at this point.

It's Project Not-Melee. Divide has practically been in the name since the beginning.

There's a really pretentious echo in here.

 

[TTTTTsd]

It's Project Not-Melee. Divide has practically been in the name since the beginning.

There's a really pretentious echo in here.

Am I coming off as pretentious? My apologies, that's not my intent at all, it's just weird. I'm aware all of this has been a factor but this is like, the first time I've kinda felt it, y'know? Maybe I was just dense back then, I don't know.

I'll stop myself now since I'm going to end up putting my foot in my mouth at some point, I suppose.

To change the subject, I found a Ukelele for like 50 bucks on Amazon Canada, should I pick it up/christmas wishlist it? I'm having major thoughts. I don't even know why I want one, I just do.

 

[Fortress]

Am I coming off as pretentious?

I'm talking about me. It's practically in the profile quote.

 

[trash?]

yeah PM discussion has always been the world of the false equivalence. either you hated fox or you loved fox so much that you'd be okay with ****ing him.
...I want those arguments back. far less sad to think about.

also it's... kinda weird that nobody in the PMDT bothered to ask a lawyer until relatively recently. like, I thought they'd have done that like a year ago at least

 

[SunJester]

I'm still not completely convinced that running this game at tournaments is safe, especially given we -know- that there was a threat of being sued.

 

[ShadowKing]

I understand why people say PM will die but how can you be sure about that maby they might convince NINTENDO or something

 

[Fortress]

yeah PM discussion has always been the world of the false equivalence. either you hated fox or you loved fox so much that you'd be okay with ****ing him.

Who cares about Fox? Let's talk about full-screen projectiles with transcendent priority that apply hitstun, established in 2003. **** Falco.

 

[Jaedrik]

oh you mean like every DT member that was just added this past month?

this is a really stupid comment because things have to start again somewhere. well, they don't HAVE to. but you know what I mean.

Truth.

We don't strictly need Project M at all.

You've made it abundantly clear that you're taking first year philosophy, but have you tried economics yet? Maybe next semester. Everyone won't empathize with developers who keep putting out shoddy content, especially if they toss out experimental builds on a nightly basis. Repeatedly showing fans new, mediocre content and begging them to put up with it ("please understand") won't work - yes, even after you type up an essay explaining why it's the most rational way to approach the situation. It didn't work in 2008 when Brawl Plus was at the forefront of the Brawl modding scene. That mod was laughed off by competitive players for having no clear direction. Project M swooped in, offered a slower but clearer development plan, it earned everyone's favour, and delivered the nail to Plus's coffin, with a neutered character roster at that. No, the laissez-faire approach to development didn't work years ago, when the scene was new and people were expecting low quality content., so it certainly won't work after the PMDT has raised the stakes so high.

I don't actually endorse quarterly PMDT indie festivals, just restraint.

Nice ad hominem bro. I wouldn't have to take a philo course to see that.
Foxtrot yeah I've taken economics, I take that doo doo all day. Microecon, macroecon, econecon, you name it man I know it. Keynesian, Chicago, Neoclassical, Austrian, I know 'em all in and out. As for what I am that doesn't matter, let's just say I'm a Scholastic.
I don't care about their empathy, all they need to do is accept it wouldn't be justified to stop any idiot from tossing out experimental builds on a nightly basis.
The fans don't have to put up with it, it's perfectly within their rights to simply not bother with newer versions.

Your analysis of the history of Brawl mods is lacking. First off... Brawl+'s failure and Project M's success is laissez-faire. That's the essence of competition. Naturally and voluntarily things shifted towards a centralized development team. To impose such a thing by use of force or from the top down would be ignorant of the process by which it came about. Obviously, the PMDT failed in that it didn't accomplish what the community wanted in the end, therefore there are so many attempting to fill the void. The best of it will rise to the top if there is no more interference from... legal issues, which is likely the top-down imposition that put the kibosh on the very successful PMDT. If that's again a centralized dev team as one or another of the teams gains more and more support, then so be it.

So, care to explain where that "deserved monopoly" came from?

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

if you actually want the game to succeed as its purpose, which is to be a competitive smash game that channels the spirit of melee, you should recognize the importance of having 3.6 only in tournaments

anything else just turns it into another forgettable brawl mod that adds characters like goku or knuckles leading to fracture and loss of any competitive scene

I'm not saying that the possibility of adopting another community bugfix with unanimous approval is precluded, just that it will be some time before such a move is feasible or even necessary

people have been playing 3.6 for close to half a year now and you probably would have continued to play it for another year before you really would have wondered what the pmdt was doing
people have been playing melee for over 20 times that period of time with no patches, and that game is in far worse shape than 3.6

stay the course

 

[Fortress]

I understand why people say PM will die but how can you be sure about that maby they might convince NINTENDO or something

how can you be sure about that maby they might convince NINTENDO or something

maby they might convince NINTENDO or something

convince NINTENDO

 

[trash?]

an open-sourced project m isn't impossible to succeed--people underestimate how you can limit things just enough to be inconvenient, but technically richard-stallman-approved "free"--but it would require a lot more moderation and community manpower than I think a bunch of random dudes with overall little brawl modding experience can provide

 

[Fortress]

bunch of random dudes with overall little brawl modding experience can provide

This is my second main beef with it. Apart from putting the development team in hot water over adding crappy Sword Ganon, why would you want crappy Sword Ganon from people who don't actually develop as professionally as you can get being in the position the PMDT was in? I'll pass on Dante, Goku, and Hank Hill, thanks.

 

[Comeback Kid]

I'm going back to playing the latest Project M 3.something build. You know, the one that doesn't exist and therefore no one can be happy about it. Good night!

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

project m: the m stands for MUGEN

this truly is the darkest timeline

 

[TTTTTsd]

project m: the m stands for MUGEN

this truly is the darkest timeline

Wanna see the best thing I did with MUGEN? I put some code to glitch characters in important files and then...

Spoiler: EASY

YO IF PM COULD HAVE THIS?! OFFICIAL BUILD NO QUESTION

No longer the true darkest timeline

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

no that is definitely the darkest timeline

 

[Jaedrik]

if you actually want the game to succeed as its purpose, which is to be a competitive smash game that channels the spirit of melee, you should recognize the importance of having 3.6 only in tournaments

anything else just turns it into another forgettable brawl mod that adds characters like goku or knuckles leading to fracture and loss of any competitive scene

I'm not saying that the possibility of adopting another community bugfix with unanimous approval is precluded, just that it will be some time before such a move is feasible or even necessary

people have been playing 3.6 for close to half a year now and you probably would have continued to play it for another year before you really would have wondered what the pmdt was doing
people have been playing melee for over 20 times that period of time with no patches, and that game is in far worse shape than 3.6

stay the course

This is my second main beef with it. Apart from putting the development team in hot water over adding crappy Sword Ganon, why would you want crappy Sword Ganon from people who don't actually develop as professionally as you can get being in the position the PMDT was in? I'll pass on Dante, Goku, and Hank Hill, thanks.

All these warnings are ultimately ineffectual: TOs decide. They're sovereign.
And, imo, if you think TOs are gonna accept goku at the risk of fracturing the community and thus lowering turnouts, well... tbh fam.

We will stay the course.

Again, I'd like to stress that Project M was a grassroots, voluntary movement, and that it competes indirectly with all other games (and builds) through 1. downloads + use 2. TOs and tourneys. PM today came about because of the darkness before it and because of the demand unsatisfied. To attempt to impose the old PMDTs structure and "monopoly" right from the get-go is to deny the very process which birthed the PMDT.

 

[TTTTTsd]

no that is definitely the darkest timeline

IDK about you but I would play Project M with an army of multiplying Silver Surfers.

Desyncs taken to a new extreme.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Project M V 4.20: the M stands for Marijuana

this truly is the dankest timeline

 

[trash?]

remade 3.7 that switches knuckles with the one true character

all of his attacks just involve him violently coughing at you

 

[TTTTTsd]

Also, IDK about you guys, but I know what I'M gonna do when my finals are mostly over....

I'm gonna lab rat to an unhealthy extreme, and I'm going to dissect a bunch of characters. Everything's static now, yeah? Time to dig deep for real. This is where the future lies, we can now sustain SOLID development and while in a way it's sad, the potential is unbelievable.

Let's go.

 

[Zoma]

I'm not sure "NewPMDT" supporters have thought this through. Putting out a new version, even just a bug fix, would make Project M start back from square one. It wouldn't be legitimized on Smashboards or /r/ssbpm, because they're run, at least in part, by the PMDT and their supporters. In other words, the two largest (read: only) forums of discussion for Project M would be unavailable. That's not good for converting an entire community from the official build to a derivative build.

 

[Frost | Odds]

remade 3.7 that switches knuckles with the one true character

all of his attacks just involve him violently coughing at you

so basically dedede

 

[trash?]

fox was rarely, if ever, 1st place long-term in any version of PM, but everyone above him was always nerfed by the next version, which was always a major issue within PM's balance routine as versions happened close enough to where you'd have 3 months of spacies dominance, followed by 3 months of the one true top tier's dominance, and then rinse/repeat

fox isn't 1st place here, either. except now, your ROBs, your MKs and your diddy kongs aren't ever going away. long-term, this is a good thing

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Also, IDK about you guys, but I know what I'M gonna do when my finals are mostly over....

I'm gonna lab rat to an unhealthy extreme, and I'm going to dissect a bunch of characters. Everything's static now, yeah? Time to dig deep for real. This is where the future lies, we can now sustain SOLID development and while in a way it's sad, the potential is unbelievable.

Let's go.

this is what we've been doing for awhile now

join the party, take a drink, have a good time

welcome to paradise

 

[Jaedrik]

Here's what I think's gonna happen if no more top-down impositions (like legal stuff) happen:

Players want stability. New builds will more trend towards very small balance adjustments (I'd like to see DOTA / IceFrog style balancing) and adding polish and bug fixes and finished chars before calling it quits.
I mean we were on that path already with the PMDT, the difference being the balance / character design changes will be smaller or nonexistent.
But if that doesn't then we'll see. :D