Project M Social Thread Gold

[Gamegenie222]

Bob is still hella good in Tekken but wayy worse in 6. Tag 2 is a Mishima town but they are hard to play effectively. Outside of Mishimas Lars, Leo, Bob, Bruce, Nina, Armor King and a couple others are hella good but there are alot of character usage in tag 2. And I'm not big on SF4 either but I can appreciate some good ass neutral game.

 

[NW_Gump]

And Tekken isn't like that, Gump? Wasn't Bob still a major force in 6 and Tag 2? As a more recent example, mind.

Smooth Criminal

Yes, Bob was very good in tekken 6 and that carried over into Tag 2 for sure, but he wasn't completely dominating the scene like everyone thought, it just was an unlucky circumstance at Evo that they happened to main the same character.

The thing about tekken though that makes the Gaps between the tiers smaller and the game ultimately more balanced(especially Tag 2) is the prevalence of universal options. Every character has tools to efficiently move around (although some more than others) like Korean backdashing and sidestep cancelling so every character can space efficiently. Every character also has (semi)consistent punishers, so every character has a 10 frame punish, a 12-13 frame move, and then usually a 15 frame launcher. If the launcher isn't at 15 frames (characters like Bob, Ganryu, etc) they usually have something else to make up for it (high damage, better pokes, etc). Aris has a video on this where he talks about how if you block a move or hit them with a move you put the opponent into a state where you can poke again, move around and try to whiff punish, throw, or simply go back to neutral. The diversity of movement in Tekken and Virtua Fighter make me feel that 3D games are closer to Smash than people think, because it's all about movement and punishment. All just my opinion though so take it with a grain of salt.

Bob is still hella good in Tekken but wayy worse in 6. Tag 2 is a Mishima town but they are hard to play effectively. Outside of Mishimas Lars, Leo, Bob, Bruce, Nina, Armor King and a couple others are hella good but there are alot of character usage in tag 2. And I'm not big on SF4 either but I can appreciate some good *** neutral game.

Nina is harder to use as well, sort of like the Mishimas, takes a specialist. But look at Bronson Tran, he uses Ogre/Jinpachi as well as Marduk and Jaycee to get huge success at tournaments (second at strongstyle, biggest tekken tournament possibly ever.). Even "low tier" characters like Ogre still have a chance to shine due to the Tag system and just Tekken's balancing philosophy.

 

[NW_Gump]

oops double post

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I actually do compare footsies in Smash to Tekken and other 3D fighters quite often in conversation when I talk fighting game theory, so I get you.

And I wasn't trying to be smarmy about my example, fwiw. It's just hard to have a "pure" PvP experience like that in games where there is variation in movepools and kits. Despite that universal design you mentioned, somebody in the roster is bound to have better buttons. How much better, well, it's a matter of degrees.

I had a chance to play Tekken competitively when I lived in ATL. I kinda regret it because high level Tekken is super fun to watch and hear about.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Gamegenie222]

I forgot about Bronson but alot of that is due to fundamentals and the hard reads and you forgot about Tekken at Evo where he did well. And that is very true about the Tag engine and balancing when people arn't ******** about it. And dude funny enough I went into 3d fighters after quitting smash for a bit because of the movement, freedom and the punishment. Very interesting that I see another person see those same ideas on 3d games to smash.

 

[Saito]

I don't know much about tekken Meta.

Quick someone tell me how good my main Jun is.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Bronson's Jinpappy/Ogre team in Tag 2 was ****ing hilarious. I loved watching him crush souls with those big bodies.

Smooth Criminal

 

[NW_Gump]

Bronson's Jinpappy/Ogre team in Tag 2 was ****ing hilarious. I love watching him crush souls with those big bodies.

Smooth Criminal

Reminder that Saint, who won strongstyle and is potentially the best tekken player in the world uses Ganryu/Bob. He's so good he has JDCR convinced that Ganryu is top 15, which is astonishing.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Man are there vids up? I gotta watch this.

Smooth Criminal

 

[NW_Gump]

Man are there vids up? I gotta watch this.

Smooth Criminal

That's the big dilemma with strongstyle, they couldn't stream it and they overpromised on this big video production thing with all these stats and stuff, so it's now almost a year later and they just now finished recording Aris and Rip commentating over the matches a few weeks ago, so we should be seeing footage soon. You can find Saint vs. Aris on youtube though, which is a great match to watch.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Awright, cool. I'll pull that one up. Thanks, Gump.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Well, I just applied for the 20XXTE beta. Get hype for possible inclusion on a stream of Chico's Final Destination Friday in the future. (Maybe.)

3dit: To be more specific, get hype for possible footage of this.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Watch final round tekken with El gallon negro and jdcr that match was soo good

 

[Omar_25]

I forgot how evil lag can be in wifi matches...

 

[Draco_The]

I've only played Tekken 5 DR and 6 on my PSP.

Hwo and Paul FTW.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

@ NW_Gump

That was a good match, dude. You were right. Kinda funny that Aris landed the Death Cradle at the start of the first match though.

The stats and stuff are kinda interesting, too. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product for sure.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Hylian]

Just finished watching Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann again for like the 6th time. Show is so amazing, I notice something new every time I watch it.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Speaking of Final round match i was talking about.

And someone was asking about Jun in TTT2 she's alright she's not horrible.

 

[Bleck]

I like how some of the more elitist Smash players completely disregard other fighters and the fundamentals inherent to them.

anyone who complains about Smash 4 being "defensive" probably loses to Ryu players that just lob hadokens at them

easier to criticize the game than it is to learn to jump or focus cancel

The thing that grinds my gears about SF4 and why I believe it's a great entry level fighting game and nothing more is that there are so few universal options that it becomes a game that is so dependent on the "character vs character" rather than becoming a full "player vs player" which is what I personally enjoy about fighting games.

one of the biggest jokes about competitive Smash is how often people talk about "gimmicks" pejoratively and "universal options" positively

the punchline is that they're the same thing

 

[Deleted member]

i think my one of my most favorite things in the world is the salt from melee elitists who try to play PM as a 1:1 to melee, lose, then complain about how janky PM is

pm =/= melee rofl

this is going to be 1000x better once fox gets some kind of core change, right now melee players just come into a game they dont play and still get like 3rd for no real reason.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

lol I finally watched tafo's video

or at least the first minute of it because afterwords I knew what it was going to say

the same "politically correct" stuff about hard-working streamers like GimR and whoever the **** else who simply can't afford to stream pm because of those darned sponsors and their money controlling what they do

those pesky sponsors tying our arms

and then he'll talk about how it's up to the PM community to run their own tournament scenes and support the TOs and streamers who support PM (ya know unlike the "mainsteam melee" community) because the "mainstream melee" community simply can't afford to stream PM

ie it was a very polite go-****-yourself you're not a part of the smash scene anymore we can't get money from you

one unit is dead if it ever was alive

and I totally understand that they can't afford it and that they don't want to make the sacrifice. that's cool I'll keep sacrificing for the game I love, like literally every melee fan and smash fan in general did until last year
smash hasn't been a monetary decision I play it because I love the game

I'm not going to sit here and tell streamers and whoever else what their priorities should be, because I'm not going to pretend to believe that I can change what they want but it's pretty clear that their priorities have shifted from a love of the game to that e$port$ money
so let em, if they don't want the pm scene that's ****ing fine it's clear they never actually cared about it in the first place

I'm going to keep playing PM and I'm going to keep going to tournaments. The game itself isn't going to decrease in quality, therefore people are still going to play it because it's a good game. that's all there is, after that the pieces fall into place because of the love of the game itself

 

[Bleck]

people are still going to play it because it's a good game.

I don't know, man, people still play Melee

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

I don't know, man, people still play Melee

hell, people will still play PM if it's a bad game as long as they like it

 

[PlateProp]

I probably wouldnt ever play melee seriously unless 20XX supported not ridiculously huge deadzones

SF4 is broing to me, and while other 2d fighters/ air dashers are kinda cool I cant really like them because it's too annoying having control taken awayfrom me the moment I get hit

3d fighters are alright, unless it's DOA which is godlike. Actually being able to shut things down because youcan counter things with good timing is great

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

mfw I find mech's reddit and all his comments are just transformers gifs

jesus christ

 

[PlateProp]

WHY THE **** IS THIS NOT A TAUNT PMDT

 

[Star ☆]

So Project Melbourne/Bam 7 were ridiculous, got to fight some very high caliber players.

Got through my pools fairly easily until I got to Mango who 2-0ed me; a guy on the stream mistakenly told me the pool winner's finals were Bo3 where it was actually Bo5, which I was admittedly upset about later as I somewhat was finding out ways to counter his play later on the in set. (I don't suggest watching the VOD as the commentary is vomit inducing)

It was Evo Rules so when I got out of pools as second seed I was automatically placed into losers and only managed to get to round 2 before getting knocked out by SA Nick, an amazing Marth from South Australia. Looking back on the set now, I think I should've used Ike as this player knew exactly what to do against my Sonic and had a hitbox out whenever I was within the range of his sword.

Doesn't help that I got absolutely no sleep because of how excited I was and had to leave at 3am for my flight. I didn't perform well in Melee or Smash 4 over the rest of the weekend though I did okay in Smash 64. Quite a few lessons were learnt here regarding the status of my play in each game.

Overall the weekend was a little underwhelming for me, the venue was just a little small for the amount of players (300+) and there wasn't many opportunities to talk to some of my closer friends in the area as I only really came down just in time for the tournament and left straight after. I'm definitely going to come down at least a week early for the next Melbourne major next January as it'll be during my Uni break.

This weekend made me think a lot about my skill and how I am compared to other players and it seems that the people ahead of me now are those that have been playing for 4-5+ years. I have a friend who is in a similar position to me and we struggle to figure out just what makes these players so much better than us, there must be something that you can significantly gain from all those years of experience. Either way I am more determined than ever to improve and will aim for first at the Sydney Major which will be in two months.

 

[Gamegenie222]

If you got vids recorded then it's better than nothing lmao. Also who did the recording and such I heard some Villager player was beating everyone in smash 4 and won the event there?

 

[Soft Serve]

socal is actually streaming PM

lets see how long this lasts

http://www.twitch.tv/sandiegopm

 

[Star ☆]

If you got vids recorded then it's better than nothing lmao. Also who did the recording and such I heard some Villager player was beating everyone in smash 4 and won the event there?

Yeah, her name is Villy (V). She's insanely good. The recordings for Melee/PM can be found on Melbourne Melee's Twitch channel. 64 is being uploaded soon but I'm not sure where you can find Smash 4.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

anyone who complains about Smash 4 being "defensive" probably loses to Ryu players that just lob hadokens at them

easier to criticize the game than it is to learn to jump or focus cancel

You know, ya'll may find this amusing, buuuuut

I think Smash 4 hews to the mechanics (not systems) of traditional fighting games in how it's played. It's a controversial opinion, I know, but I think a lot of the changes to the game point to this.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Lizalfos]

PMDT should add an auto l-cancel addon and a Melee dead zones addon and a revert ZSS to 3.02 addon by default.

GG whiners.

 

[Gamegenie222]

You know, ya'll may find this amusing, buuuuut

I think Smash 4 hews to the mechanics (not systems) of traditional fighting games in how it's played. It's a controversial opinion, I know, but I think a lot of the changes to the game point to this.

Smooth Criminal

Hmm explain I'm curious on your thoughts about this?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Hmm explain I'm curious on your thoughts about this?

It's more of a hunch than anything, but basically:

- Projectiles of all stripes having significant recovery across the board

- Shielding being such a good option again, but with a lack of a centralizing ledge game to go along with it (hi, Brawl).

- Homoegenization of airdodges (this was patched in, granted) and increasing lag for airdodging into the ground

All of this kinda makes me believe that, at least in the vanilla settings, that there's a stronger emphasis on less "janky" (not that it was bad) aspects of neutral and whatnot that Smash has had in past iterations and more solid fundamental play all-around.

Smooth Criminal

 

[~Dad~]

WHY THE **** IS THIS NOT A TAUNT PMDT

omg who do I need to tag to get this in this is so cute

 

[Gamegenie222]

Interesting but you also need to point out the removal of brawl tech and other stuff that doesn't fit Sakurai ideals and what not.

In other news alot of these listed vids in his countdown i haven't seen yet i need to see. Viewer Discretion is advised.

 

[PlateProp]

omg who do I need to tag to get this in this is so cute

summon the people's hero, Silentdoom

I already invoked his name in another thread, you have to do it now Dad

 

[Soft Serve]

I've decided to evaluate potential significant others by their favorite slam jams. I think this is the ultimate test of compatibility

 

[Leafeon]

I've decided to evaluate potential significant others by their favorite slam jams. I think this is the ultimate test of compatibility

Yeah, it would suck to go on a road trip and neither of you can agree on what to listen to

 

[NW_Gump]

Played abysmally in a tournament today, only amplified by the fact that I still haven't really decided on a main yet so I was swapping around characters a lot mid set. After the tournament though I played a lot of friendlies as MetaKnight and i was actually having a lot of fun with that character and doing just as well as with anyone else, I like doing dair/upair/upsmash combos and using nair all over the place. But I don't really know of any MK videos in 3.5 to watch because after they took away his old dair the character has been MIA. So who are some 3.5 metaknight mains to watch? I found one eclipsekirby and that's about it