Project M Mewtwo: A Balancing Project

[PseudoTypical]

I know, I was just putting anecdotal evidence to also agree. EVERYONE AGREES!

I agree with this agreement.

Also, on the topic of physical attacks, I'm totally happy with having Mega Punch. It's a great exception to that Dr. Doom-like role (which I'd never noticed until now, and it makes total sense). He gets to let loose his physical power just once, on top of his dark-psychic energy stuff that layers the punch. That's my take.

 

[GigasOverlord]

Sometimes, you just need to smack a b***h. Besides, I wouldn't give up screen shake Mega Punch for almost anything.

 

[Mewter]

I know, I was just putting anecdotal evidence to also agree. EVERYONE AGREES!

However, little did anyone suspect... I am in
COMPLETE AGREEANCE WITH THIS NOTION AS WELL!

Mega Punch is just cool, especially on Raichu. To give it to Mewtwo with his own spin makes it even better.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Sometimes, you just need to smack a b***h. Besides, I wouldn't give up screen shake Mega Punch for almost anything.

Yeah, pretty much!

This conversation reminded me of this (minor Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 spoilers).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHaEmz1Ueso&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Nguz95]

Ok. I changed some things, and unfortunately I am going to need to lean on you guys to test it again... sorry about that. Mewtwo should now move forward during the banishing flat animation, and the graphics should be matched up better. Also, ftilt should be fixed. The stupid item throw sound is gone and has been replaced with a regular sword slash. Also, the really big slash that appears on contact has been replaced with a regular hit graphic. Finally, I talked to Shell and he told me how to get dash-dancing on Mewtwo! I put in the change, so it should work, just let me know if it doesn't. Here is the dl link: http://www.mediafire.com/folder/9qc8zsgebqj9o/Move_Testing

Please let me know if there are any problems!

Gigas, I'll be sure to put a poll in the OP.

Edit: Mega Punch is going to get an animation redo soon. It was the first animation I made from scratch, so I want to clean it up a bit now that I'm more experienced.

 

[AFROofJUSTICE]

@Anonistry: Oh... sorry for the misunderstanding.

Ok. I changed some things, and unfortunately I am going to need to lean on you guys to test it again... sorry about that. Mewtwo should now move forward during the banishing flat animation, and the graphics should be matched up better. Also, ftilt should be fixed. The stupid item throw sound is gone and has been replaced with a regular sword slash. Also, the really big slash that appears on contact has been replaced with a regular hit graphic. Finally, I talked to Shell and he told me how to get dash-dancing on Mewtwo! I put in the change, so it should work, just let me know if it doesn't. Here is the dl link: http://www.mediafire.com/folder/9qc8zsgebqj9o/Move_Testing

Please let me know if there are any problems!

Gigas, I'll be sure to put a poll in the OP.

Edit: Mega Punch is going to get an animation redo soon. It was the first animation I made from scratch, so I want to clean it up a bit now that I'm more experienced.

OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHH! Thank goodness the item sfx are gone. I'm glad you figured out how to get Mewtwo to dash dance. I'm definitely going to try it out ASAP. I'll let you know if there is anything wrong with Mewtwo.

 

[Anonistry]

No problem at all. I am verbose and rambling, so I can miss when what I say is confusing... Sorry about that.

Also, nice to hear about the improvements. And Mega Punch is awesome, but I do appreciate and approve of a "cleanup" of sorts for it. I think the biggest thing is, despite screen shake, the actual animation could use a little weight, to abuse a word, and look more powerful.

@Gigas interesting comparison, although he lacks finger lazors and dat guided missile assist. I can certainly see a zoning game possible, but I think the inclusion of Psychic, specifically, will be ironically helpful, giving a rather decent tool for pushing them out. Still would love that command throw into hitbox, though.

 

[GigasOverlord]

Nothing wrong with needing us to test. Without us, it'd just be your input, and that'd make it wonky and unbalanced. That being said, brass tacks.

Spoiler

I started testing per usual; Training mode, Mario on PS2. First thing I do is Banishing Flat. The animation completes itself, then I FALL THROUGH THE ENTIRETY OF THE STAGE. I laughed my *ss off for a good 3 minutes. What is does is lock you into idle stance while you fall through, body completely concrete. You don't fall through if you JC it at any point before the shadow burst ends and you can at least control your horizontal movement while falling helplessly. Oddly enough, this doesn't happen when you are midair with enough distance to finish the animation (Tested on Hyrule Temple). This is breaking enough that it needs an immediate fix, ASAP. I'll cover some of the properties, but not the projectile or clanking because I fall through the floor too fast; sorry about that one.

The animation is smooth and the offensive properties are fine. The only things I'd do are:
Speed up the animation, because Banishing Flat is actually pretty fast (at least in Street Fighter IV).
Lower the sweetspot damage to compensate for the increased speed.
Make it slightly delayable before the spin to allow projectile breaking. Delaying Banishing Flat would leave you helpless against attack and would require smart play to effectively counter projectiles.
Make it dash cancel-able after the shadow burst, especially if the shadow burst is going to retain its horizontal knockback factors. This would make it slightly more useful since you wouldn't be punished for a relatively quick attack.

Psycho Cut is looking pretty good at this point. I like sword SFX for it. One thing, though. Up and Down F-Tilt still have the item throw SFX. Just a little tweak, and it should be good.

I think it's super nice of Shell to help with the dash dance thing. It looks great, and is functional. The only problem is that now his other movement is janked.
When he lands on platforms, the wind FX are beneath him.
When he DDs, the wind FX are slightly too high each time he pivots. Lower them about his waist/hips instead of his hands.
When he initiates run, it works fine until a point. At this point, he shifts to his walk animation and does not run. This makes Foxtrotting faster than running.

While the changes are nice, this one surprisingly broke more than it fixed. It shouldn't be too hard to fix these problems though. As always, here are some random thoughts.

Maybe it's because I finally upgraded to 2.6b, or maybe it's legitimately Mewtwo, or maybe even both. When fighting the AI, they make really weird decisions and moves. Wario has an insane fetish with using D-Air, even when I'm on the other side of Temple. Falco uses Phantasm below the stage for no reason when recovering, etc. I'm not too sure about this one.

Would it be possible to use stock SFX from other characters over his tail attacks similar to what you did with Psycho Cut? I wouldn't mind just having a nice Whoosh or something easy like that.

For Mega Punch, I love the idea for cleaning it up. Just don't change anything too drastic. Maybe make him stand straighter when delivering and charging and draw back less when charging to make the move seem less physical and he himself more powerful. It'd really say something about Mewtwo's psychic power if that little an amount of physical exertion had that much power behind it.

 

[Nguz95]

Nothing wrong with needing us to test. Without us, it'd just be your input, and that'd make it wonky and unbalanced. That being said, brass tacks.

Spoiler

I started testing per usual; Training mode, Mario on PS2. First thing I do is Banishing Flat. The animation completes itself, then I FALL THROUGH THE ENTIRETY OF THE STAGE. I laughed my *ss off for a good 3 minutes. What is does is lock you into idle stance while you fall through, body completely concrete. You don't fall through if you JC it at any point before the shadow burst ends and you can at least control your horizontal movement while falling helplessly. Oddly enough, this doesn't happen when you are midair with enough distance to finish the animation (Tested on Hyrule Temple). This is breaking enough that it needs an immediate fix, ASAP. I'll cover some of the properties, but not the projectile or clanking because I fall through the floor too fast; sorry about that one.

The animation is smooth and the offensive properties are fine. The only things I'd do are:
Speed up the animation, because Banishing Flat is actually pretty fast (at least in Street Fighter IV).
Lower the sweetspot damage to compensate for the increased speed.
Make it slightly delayable before the spin to allow projectile breaking. Delaying Banishing Flat would leave you helpless against attack and would require smart play to effectively counter projectiles.
Make it dash cancel-able after the shadow burst, especially if the shadow burst is going to retain its horizontal knockback factors. This would make it slightly more useful since you wouldn't be punished for a relatively quick attack.

Psycho Cut is looking pretty good at this point. I like sword SFX for it. One thing, though. Up and Down F-Tilt still have the item throw SFX. Just a little tweak, and it should be good.

I think it's super nice of Shell to help with the dash dance thing. It looks great, and is functional. The only problem is that now his other movement is janked.
When he lands on platforms, the wind FX are beneath him.
When he DDs, the wind FX are slightly too high each time he pivots. Lower them about his waist/hips instead of his hands.
When he initiates run, it works fine until a point. At this point, he shifts to his walk animation and does not run. This makes Foxtrotting faster than running.

While the changes are nice, this one surprisingly broke more than it fixed. It shouldn't be too hard to fix these problems though. As always, here are some random thoughts.

Maybe it's because I finally upgraded to 2.6b, or maybe it's legitimately Mewtwo, or maybe even both. When fighting the AI, they make really weird decisions and moves. Wario has an insane fetish with using D-Air, even when I'm on the other side of Temple. Falco uses Phantasm below the stage for no reason when recovering, etc. I'm not too sure about this one.

Would it be possible to use stock SFX from other characters over his tail attacks similar to what you did with Psycho Cut? I wouldn't mind just having a nice Whoosh or something easy like that.

For Mega Punch, I love the idea for cleaning it up. Just don't change anything too drastic. Maybe make him stand straighter when delivering and charging and draw back less when charging to make the move seem less physical and he himself more powerful. It'd really say something about Mewtwo's psychic power if that little an amount of physical exertion had that much power behind it.

Sigh... I figured something like that would happen...

I tried something similar to what I was doing when I was messing around with side-b the first time. It looks like it didn't work because that's the same problem i had back then. It's a good thing I put another version up on the thread. I do know why banishing flat is janking up, which helps, but If i change it back he'll slide back really fast after he completes the animation. I think I can make the move holdable, but only for a little bit. I'll see what I can do, since that idea sounds really good. I can speed it up and add IASA frames too.

As for the dashing, I'm really glad Shell helped me, and I'm glad it worked. However, I also expected problems with this one. That's why I left the completed barrier in the OP untouched. The Project Mewtwo guys added some weird stuff to his movement options like float variables and joystick tilt commands. I have a few ideas in mind. I'm back near a Wii for a day, so I'll trst them and see what happens.

As for the cpus, lol. I haven't had anything abnormal happen to me, but what you described sounds hilarious.

I can definitely use stock sfx for his other attacks. I'll do that too.

Thanks for your help!

 

[GigasOverlord]

Yeah; that's why we have test periods.

I'm not too worried about him not gaining lateral space after the move. This will be remedied if he ends up with more IASA frames at the end and a quicker move overall. Keep in mind that Banishing Flat was designed for a 2D fighter, and Zangief can't dash or jump cancel it without meter. The ability to cancel in any way makes the horizontal movement almost moot, especially when Smash is designed with more mobility than traditional fighters.

With the dash dance, at least the only things that you have to fix are slight graphic placement and run elongation. I'm super happy that it's at least implemented for now.

I have no idea about my AI, though. I might have to re-download 2.6b or something; I haven't tested out other characters, but I'll edit this post when I get around to it.

I am also super excited for the stock SFX. When all the moves get finalized, we should get someone to make a complete RSBE SFX pack for him. The only thing I'm super salty about is "Behold the Aura" not being his laugh from Melee, but that's also due to my laziness about changing my 2.6 to work with the RSBE since I use Hackless.

 

[PseudoTypical]

I am also super excited for the stock SFX. When all the moves get finalized, we should get someone to make a complete RSBE SFX pack for him. The only thing I'm super salty about is "Behold the Aura" not being his laugh from Melee, but that's also due to my laziness about changing my 2.6 to work with the RSBE since I use Hackless.

Amazerommu is already doing the Melee SFX pack and agreed to do one for Mewtwo later on!

Also, if you want a decent SFX pack and codeset for now, I made a package a while ago that I linked here. It's probably a few pages back. I'd find it but it's frustrating on mobile.

 

[Mewter]

I already have a .gct with the SFX bank, Expanded stages, 3.5.3 and Project M 2.6. It'll just be a second to upload it.

However, I had some issues running sound effects with 3.5.3, so I'll also include my 3.5.1 version.

3.5.1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/e4y0px9ocn681xf/with 351.gct

3.5.3: https://www.dropbox.com/s/au3z7fg2kpwqlzs/with 353.gct

EDIT: Sorry for the wait, by the way. I was expecting all but the sfx to work until I could get back, so I didn't stress checking in on your progress much. I'll be up for a little while longer (it's late in my time zone; I don't know where you are), so just let me know how it works if you're still trying it!

EDIT 2: I just realized the 3.5.1 file should have the exact same function as the STAGE one, so don't think it's going to improve anything. My bad on that one.

If it's really causing problems with the new file patch, go back to the STAGE file and just use one RSB_ folder. It should make things run well again.

Here it is.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Here it is.

Thank you. I also made a whole package with the SFX, too, though. It's somewhere around here.

EDIT: there's also a version without the expanded stages.

 

[Mewter]

This is basically an EDIT 3: I got it working! I was reading about the new code, and someone mentions that SuperSawndz sometimes doubles the size of the .bnk files for no reason. I tried it again, and it's the right size. Although this one is "official", it doesn't have all the sounds (the tilts still have that annoying item drop noise, sadly), but it's a good start. Here's the link to the whole package:

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=8489&Vault=audio

and here's my .bnk, because I assume you don't want to waste your time trying to make it repeatedly:

http://www.fileswap.com/dl/0Cxcw9mDph/

Is this it?

Nguz should put the SFX stuff and instructions in the OP.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Is this it?

Nguz should put the SFX stuff and instructions in the OP.

Yep! It has instructions as well. I think he said he was going to, but he probably forgot about it.

By the way, the tail moves make the item drop sound still with this, but the rest is changed. I'm pretty sure fixing it later won't be a problem for someone that knows what they're doing.

 

[GigasOverlord]

Yeah, I also vote for having the Gecko RSBE and SFX pack put in the OP. I'm also pretty confident that when Nguz fixes the tail attacks to have stock FX that it shouldn't be too hard to replace those with Melee Mewtwo SFX.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Okay, here's the whole package. I'm getting settled into college, still, so I won't be around much, but let me know what you think so I can do better later on.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d833xvrzhxy1ayd/Mewtwo Character Pack.rar

Yeah, I also vote for having the Gecko RSBE and SFX pack put in the OP. I'm also pretty confident that when Nguz fixes the tail attacks to have stock FX that it shouldn't be too hard to replace those with Melee Mewtwo SFX.

If he can update the .pac file to link to an unused sound in Mewtwo's file, and if someone could find the Mewtwo tail sound in .wav format, I could make a new .bnk. I don't know if you can edit .bnk's as of now.

EDIT: Smashboards is back! Also, I'm pretty well situated here, so I can make any edits that you guys want, so long as you're okay with waiting a day or so at most.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Gotta wonder what happens now, with that clone engine out. The PMBR is probably working on their own Mewtwo. What do you guys think?

 

[Nguz95]

Sigh...
I didn't think they would get the clone engine working ever... I guess that means my project won't be worth much once 3.0 comes out. I'll finish it, then I'll use Project M's Mewtwo when it comes out. I guess that means I need to step on it so I can get it finished before Mewtwo is revealed.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Sigh...
I didn't think they would get the clone engine working ever... I guess that means my project won't be worth much once 3.0 comes out. I'll finish it, then I'll use Project M's Mewtwo when it comes out. I guess that means I need to step on it so I can get it finished before Mewtwo is revealed.

Guess so... I mean, if you do something really well that beats out some of the regular Mewtwo stuff, you could well improve the P:M Mewtwo. Maybe that should be the goal now.

 

[Nguz95]

I'd be surprised if anything I do is better than their work. It's kind of a drag, because I'm really close to figuring out Psychic.

 

[PseudoTypical]

I'd be surprised if anything I do is better than their work. It's kind of a drag, because I'm really close to figuring out Psychic.

Your plan seemed really cool, so who knows! I say keep going. We have no idea what they've got planned, so it's best not to worry for now.

 

[Nguz95]

Your plan seemed really cool, so who knows! I say keep going. We have no idea what they've got planned, so it's best not to worry for now.

That's fair. I won't drop this project any time soon.

 

[210stuna]

DETERMINATION
PERSISTENCE
& SKILL

 

[GigasOverlord]

No point in dropping hard work ever. Depending on the way the dev team makes their own Mewtwo, if they're even making one, I might still just play this one. I've had enough creative input on this one and I like the playstyle enough that I'd never let this go. And who knows? Maybe the PMBR might be looking for an established base Mewtwo to polish up?

Also, super excited for Psychic, because I'm pretty sure that I'm thinking it differently than you, Nguz, and I'm intrigued to see what you're thinking.

 

[PseudoTypical]

No point in dropping hard work ever. Depending on the way the dev team makes their own Mewtwo, if they're even making one, I might still just play this one. I've had enough creative input on this one and I like the playstyle enough that I'd never let this go. And who knows? Maybe the PMBR might be looking for an established base Mewtwo to polish up?

Also, super excited for Psychic, because I'm pretty sure that I'm thinking it differently than you, Nguz, and I'm intrigued to see what you're thinking.

This is true. In fact, I think it's within everyone's best interest if you got in touch with the PMBR about it. You've done a lot already. It could help them, depending on how far along they are.

Also curious.

 

[AFROofJUSTICE]

I would definitely keep this Mewtwo if I were you Nguz95. PMBR's Mewtwo is most likely going to be really different. Who knows, your Mewtwo might end up being way better.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Don't know how to say nicely so I'm just gonna say it: PMBR's got quite a few experienced animators and modelers who will mostly like or may already be working in tandem to obsessively perfect mewtwo, as well as more brain power to trouble shoot character specific issues that may arise quickly so that MewTwo will undoubtedly be done much better and perhaps sooner than this project.

 

[GigasOverlord]

Yeah, what do you expect? Here, it's just one man doing the animating and properties, and about 7-10 people doing the playtesting. Doesn't mean we're going to stop doing it regardless of what the PMBR is doing. 3.0 still has a ways to go, and Mewtwo might not even be in it. The best we can do is just keep slogging on and get this one finished. Once that's done, popular poll for replaced characters and hopefully make a Plug and Play.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I'm not saying you should stop or that it's just a bad idea, but rather that the likelihood of PMBR hitting a homerun with a MewTwo release is high enough that my enthusiasm (and perhaps others') for an unofficial build isn't really there.

 

[GigasOverlord]

Yeah, but until they confirm Mewtwo, we can work on this. I really hope that the PMBR hits a goddamn grand slam with Mewtwo, because I'm pretty sure almost everyone in this thread mained him or enjoyed playing as him. Just can't get enough Mewtwo, man.

Also, I was gonna ask earlier, but it must have slipped my mind. Nguz, what kind of progress have you had in the DDoS downtime? I'm excited to see if you got Banishing Flat and Psycho Cut working properly.

 

[Nguz95]

Yeah, but until they confirm Mewtwo, we can work on this. I really hope that the PMBR hits a goddamn grand slam with Mewtwo, because I'm pretty sure almost everyone in this thread mained him or enjoyed playing as him. Just can't get enough Mewtwo, man.

Also, I was gonna ask earlier, but it must have slipped my mind. Nguz, what kind of progress have you had in the DDoS downtime? I'm excited to see if you got Banishing Flat and Psycho Cut working properly.

The biggest news I have is that I have found a working .rel tht allows you to replace ROB with either Lucario or Mewtwo. I'll add that to the OP later today. In terms of other news, I have made progress with psychic, meaning I have eliminated methods that don't work. While I haven't yet found the right one, I'm very close. The beginning of the school year was a bit hectic, soi have not made as much progress as I had hoped.now that things have quieted down some I should start seeing real progress. I also have come up with a new mega punch animation. I hope you guys will like it!

 

[GigasOverlord]

Ooh. ROB is a character that I don't use anyways. This is a thing that is good. It's nice that things have settled down for you, though. Let's hope that the others who also have school are settling in just fine. Also, working through things that don't work is the first step to finding something that does.

As a side note, will Psychic be using directional input or button combos? I imagine either/or, depending on which one is easier to program. Both feel organic at the end of the day.

Also, snazzy new animation for Mega Punch? I hope I like it as much as the one now. I guess I'll have to wait and see.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Ooh. ROB is a character that I don't use anyways. This is a thing that is good. It's nice that things have settled down for you, though. Let's hope that the others who also have school are settling in just fine.

Also, snazzy new animation for Mega Punch? I hope I like it as much as the one now. I guess I'll have to wait and see.

This.

I'm pretty excited about it. I've liked all of the other animations once they've been tested, so something he calls "better" is probably better!

 

[AFROofJUSTICE]

Don't know how to say nicely so I'm just gonna say it: PMBR's got quite a few experienced animators and modelers who will mostly like or may already be working in tandem to obsessively perfect mewtwo, as well as more brain power to trouble shoot character specific issues that may arise quickly so that MewTwo will undoubtedly be done much better and perhaps sooner than this project.

Yeah, what do you expect? Here, it's just one man doing the animating and properties, and about 7-10 people doing the playtesting. Doesn't mean we're going to stop doing it regardless of what the PMBR is doing. 3.0 still has a ways to go, and Mewtwo might not even be in it. The best we can do is just keep slogging on and get this one finished. Once that's done, popular poll for replaced characters and hopefully make a Plug and Play.

Right......... I was just trying to be friendly GOSH!

EDIT: @Drinkingfood Your post doesn't offend me at all.

You guys are right though. Since PMBR are a team of professionals they can make an excellent Mewtwo. I do give credit to Nguz95 for trying to make his Mewtwo more like Mewtwo. I am guessing the PMBR are making a viable version of melee Mewtwo. Basically I don't expect anything really new (maybe a new Side B). Thats not a bad thing though.

 

[Sluigi123]

I've been shadowing in this thread for a while now, and I've got to hand it to ya, Mewtwo is pretty cool overall. Hope to see some more progress later on!

PMBR... Yes, we all know them. They made Roy as a character all on their own, meaning his own roster, voice, and doesn't replace anyone in the brawl roster! I curious of what the announcer would sound like when he says "Roy!" Mewtwo will most likely be the next returning character to be in Project M. Guess you better take it up a notch, before Project M's version.

All in all, good luck finishing Mewtwo!

 

[Shadow Huan]

oh hey smashboards is back!

so i FINALLY have a way to download Project M and did so while the site was down, but couldn't get a hold of this for obvious reasons.

Now with the clone engine out, i would say that the PMBR should use this Mewtwo as a base for an "official" one... because honestly speaking, simply a "Buffed Melee Mewtwo" will not be good enough... he needs the kind of overhaul that you have been giving him, perhaps some armored moves here and there besides what you have done. just my opinion but I will totally repeat it in a clone engine thread if you need the backup (For what it's worth)

Now my question is, are the downloads on page 1 and this page a mostly working Mewtwo? Because now that i can get it i can playtest it with a few of my old crew mates this upcoming week. is it one on one match ready?

 

[PseudoTypical]

Now with the clone engine out, i would say that the PMBR should use this Mewtwo as a base for an "official" one... because honestly speaking, simply a "Buffed Melee Mewtwo" will not be good enough... he needs the kind of overhaul that you have been giving him, perhaps some armored moves here and there besides what you have done. just my opinion but I will totally repeat it in a clone engine thread if you need the backup (For what it's worth)

Now my question is, are the downloads on page 1 and this page a mostly working Mewtwo? Because now that i can get it i can playtest it with a few of my old crew mates this upcoming week. is it one on one match ready?

We've brought this up to Nguz, but IDK if he's going to ask about it. I agree that buffed Melee Mewtwo wouldn't survive.

It should be fine for what you're doing. A few issues here and there, but nothing gamebreaking. Some things aren't effective enough to be used competitively yet, but his arsenal is definitely enough to win a good fight IMO.

 

[Shadow Huan]

as exciting as the Roy announcement was, the fact that he is STILL a clone of Marth gives me very little hope, but i might just be cynical lol

it would be terrible for all the hard work put into this to go to waste

okay, I'll download it and have a look at it when i get home

one on one playtesting would probably not happen until Tuesday or Wednesday though...

EDIT: okay, download is done! hopefully i did it correctly lol .-.

 

[210stuna]

as exciting as the Roy announcement was, the fact that he is STILL a clone of Marth gives me very

Look what the PMBR did with Wolf, and Toon Link, Wario, and Ike
They made their playstyle very different and adjusted their moveset accordingly to balance the game out.

I predict Roy to be the very same.