Project M Mewtwo: A Balancing Project

[\Apples]

The retexture looks super good. So good that it makes it look like a new model.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Thanks for the models, I just need to clean my Wii's drive so it will read Brawl again. By the way Apples, what is the best way to put a Brawl Texture on a Melee Model? I was thinking of pulling a Ganondorf on Mario's Melee import.

 

[PseudoTypical]

I'm glad I was able to help. If you end up liking the new model more, I was able to find this as well.

EDIT: replaced it with a better collection. The old one is here, but this one seems more well put together.

 

[Nguz95]

I personally downloaded the Starwaffle model of Mewtwo long before I knew about Nguz's project. If you're dead set on a Melee-like model, though, I thought this and this were decent enough for all of the slots.

Starwaffle's Mewtwo is money. The tail thing might not be fixable through a different texture though. I just need to change the model itself, which I don't think is available through any of the current textures. i might ( though i'm not sure) have to add a bone to an existing model.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Starwaffle's Mewtwo is money. The tail thing might not be fixable through a different texture though. I just need to change the model itself, which I don't think is available through any of the current textures. i might ( though i'm not sure) have to add a bone to an existing model.

So, if I understand correctly, the older models for Mewtwo might become imcompatible with the (potentially) added bones, right? If it does a lot of good for the character, I'm all for it, but I'm working on this collection of textures/models for a group of friends, and just want to make sure I'm not wasting my time with some of the things I'm picking up (like the Starwaffle model and its variants).

 

[SnatoWhato]

Tested Step 9 today and liked the Dair alot. Here's a vid of me trying it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBx7X2wipz4&feature=youtu.be

 

[Mewter]

The tail animations are actually very accurate with the Melee Mewtwo model, and a little less so with the other smooth model (the one that has an armored mewtwo costume).
N64 Stadium Mewtwo needs some tailwork done lol.

 

[ItalianStallion]

A long time ago I made a post about possible buffs/tweaks for Mewtwo. I may as well post it here.


Never mind, totally forgot how to do spoilers.

 

[Nguz95]

A long time ago I made a post about possible buffs/tweaks for Mewtwo. I may as well post it here.


Never mind, totally forgot how to do spoilers.

Please post it. I got an email notification when you first posted, and I was reading a little bit when I realized that this was the post I had been looking for when I started this project. I had read those exact words a while ago, and when I actually decided it would be a good idea to try and buff him, I looked, but couldn't find the post again.
Edit: I am about to finish a slightly buffed Melee Mewtwo. I finally figured out what was wrong with a lot of his movement, and I tried to fix it. Once he is released I will be looking to make some more radical changes.

 

[Mewter]

A long time ago I made a post about possible buffs/tweaks for Mewtwo. I may as well post it here.


Never mind, totally forgot how to do spoilers.

I had the same problem. It's [*collapse] [/*collapse] now. Remove asterisks.
Can you believe that? The nerve!

 

[Nguz95]

Ok. The newest Mewtwo is up! This one has his jump height, along with a few other physics things, fixed. I call him the Melee Mewtwo because he has all the right frame data for all his attacks. His moves all match Melee in frame length and hitbox appearance. Also, his physics are all now matching Melee. Not everything about him is the same though. His dair has the same timing as Melee, but I kept the purple burst and the added power. i don't know if this was intentional, but there is a tail spike at the beginning of his uair. You can see it in my newest video (uploading, will be edited soon).
I was not able to add a bone to a model. I think I will need to learn 3DS Max to do that. Until then I discovered that the makers of Project Mewtwo used his grab bone to create the tail hitboxes, which makes pretty much all the "mind" attacks you were suggesting possible. I have already tried out a mind jab, and while it works fine, there is a hitch in his movement when he starts his animation, which means that there is in fact an indication he is jabbing . I am working on fixing that though. If I can't make it seamless, I'll make it obvious he is doing it with his mind instead of his hands. The thing that is first on my list of things to do is get him working over Samus. The next animation I will try is either the utilt or the uair, both of which would have the tail animation replaced with purple flames arcing above his head. I think I understand how to make the awesome side b everybody has been so interested in, so that is on the table too, although I want to do smaller stuff first. Same thing with the new fthrow, although I think that will be easier to do. Anyway, check out the OP for the updated Mewtwo. This time you are going to need Melee Mewtwo Step 1 and the original FitLucarioMotionEtc.pac.

 

[_R@bid_]

For the mind jab, couldn't you just use his idle animation? Sorry if you tried that already.
Everything sounds great. Can't wait to see new Uair/Smash.

 

[Nguz95]

For the mind jab, couldn't you just use his idle animation? Sorry if you tried that already.
Everything sounds great. Can't wait to see new Uair/Smash.

That is actually exactly what I was thinking. I tried it, but every time I jabbed the idle animation would start again from scratch. That made him hitch a little. I need to find a place to start the animation so it transitions smoothly from most parts of the current animation. I might just have him fold his arms like he's daring you to come any closer.

 

[ItalianStallion]

Please post it. I got an email notification when you first posted, and I was reading a little bit when I realized that this was the post I had been looking for when I started this project. I had read those exact words a while ago, and when I actually decided it would be a good idea to try and buff him, I looked, but couldn't find the post again.

You were looking for my post? I'm flattered. Probably the reason you couldn't find it was it was from the old forums. However, I copy and pasted the post and saved it to a word document a long time ago.

I had the same problem. It's [*collapse] [/*collapse] now. Remove asterisks.
Can you believe that? The nerve!

Haha! Thank you! Now that I know that, here it is:

Spoiler

Jab: His jab should not go into that multi-hit combo. I think the best buff to his jab will be to make it a 1-2 combo. It should come out quicker than it does in Melee, but it doesn't have to come out super quick. As far as animation, an interesting idea I had was for Mewtwo to stay in his regular standing animation when he jabbed and instead have him hit them with his mind. This would be an interesting buff since the opponent doesn't have a visual cue as to when Mewtwo starts the jab (Of course they'll know when they get hit however). If that wasn't well received, perhaps just keep the animation similar to melee with him striking out with his hands with the glowing purple stuff.

Down Tilt: The only change this move needs from Melee is for it have slightly less end lag/startup lag. It came out quick-ish in Melee, but I think a small buff to it's speed would be fine for Project M. Animation-wise it should stay the same.

Forward Tilt: The only change this move needs is more of a "solid" hit. I'm not sure if that had to do with the sweetspot, or the damage or what-not but sometimes the move felt like it wasn't solidly hitting the opponent. Animation-wise it should stay the same.

Up Tilt: Some people have been saying that Mewtwo shouldn't use his tail so much due to the fact that he is a Psychic Pokemon. I think that is a fair point, but I think that getting rid of all his tail animations would be a turn-off to the Melee Mewtwo veterans. However, if the rest of the Mewtwo veterans are anything like myself, they wouldn't mind getting rid of the tail animation for Mewtwo's up tilt and his uair. So with this in mind, Mewtwo's new up tilt should be a basic psychic push up. He'll raise his hand in the air and emit a pulse of psychic energy. Decent hitbox, ok damage, decent juggling capabilities, and good overhead coverage.

Down Smash: Keep it like it was in Melee except make it come out slightly quicker and give it a slightly bigger hitbox. The same animation from Melee.

Up Smash: I love the animation from Melee, so in order to keep in that spirit, make his usmash have a similar animation except make the purple stuff (The hitbox) bigger. Also have it come out and end slightly quicker. Basically make it more like Zelda's usmash in Project M, but perhaps a little worse.

Side Smash: Give this move a new animation. Instead of using both of his hands to side smash, Mewtwo will only use one hand. Purple stuff will be at the end, but make the hitbox better than how it was in Melee. Other than that it can stay the same.

Dash Attack: Admittedly a hard one for me. I think that whatever happens to this move, a new animation is a must. It could work similarly to how it works in Melee except with a new animation and a much better hitbox, and more knockback/damage. However, I think it would be cool for the move to instead be less of an attack, and more of a movement option. Basically have Mewtwo's dash attack be a fast dash forward with a psychic barrier in front of him. It would do minimal to no damage, however the shield would reflect projectiles. This gives Mewtwo a quick dash option forward while also giving him some protection against projectiles. However, due to the move being a semi-worthless attack, using it as such would be an easy grab opportunity for your opponent. Also, unlike Lucario's down b, the move wouldn't go past a standing opponent.

Grab Range: Make it better than Melee, but not overpowered.

Grab Speed: Again, better than Melee, but not overpowered. I don't remember his grab speed being too terrible anyways.

Up Throw: Exactly like Melee.

Back Throw: Exactly like Melee.

Down Throw: Exactly like Melee.

Forward Throw: I love the animation, but the move was terrible mechanically. Upping the damage to make the move worthwhile would be a good buff. However, because of the new side b move I am going to suggest, this move would not have to be changed much from it's Melee version.

Jump: His first jump is OK. No need to change it from Melee.

Double Jump: While the height was amazing, his double jump is way too slow. It needs to be quicker. Perhaps giving it a new animation would help. Also, keep the rising aerial technique.

DJC: Don't get rid of it.

Neutral Air: Keep it like Melee except give it less landing lag.

Forward Air: DrinkingFood said it best:
(07/11/2012 06:32 PM)DrinkingFood Wrote: Or they could keep the ShadowClaw and give it a slightly larger hitbox (he is psychic, we know he doesn't really hit with those tiny little arms anyways, it's psychic force), with better combo potential.


Back Air: Keep it like Melee, except make it quicker (Less start-up lag).

Up Air: The tail animation can be taken out. In it's place, Mewtwo will instead do an animation where he emits a psychic blast above him (Similar to his utilt). Animation wise, it will be different because Mewtwo will not use his hands, but instead hold them out to his side, looking at the screen menacingly as he emits the blast. The move will be quick (Making it a good option for DJC'ing), and good for juggling and overhead coverage.

Down Air: This one is another tricky one. I would suggest changing the animation and instead making it a psychic push downward. Mewtwo will push down with his hand and emit a pulse of psychic energy (The animation could be his hand pushing down in between his legs to make it look like his is putting a lot of force in the attack). Make it a decent meteor, but it doesn't need to be spectacular. The biggest thing is making the move quick with a decent hitbox.

Now for the fun part: Mewtwo's special moves.

Up Special: Mewtwo's up b doesn't need to be changed much. Make it exactly like Melee except maybe give him the ability to airdodge/waveland out of it like Zelda. That would be cool.

Neutral Special: Assuming that they can add in projectiles, Shadowball could stay in. To differentiate it from the Melee version, and from Lucario's, it could behave slightly differently. Have his baby shadowballs be similar to Melee, except make it so he can waveland out of them like Wolf. Make his big Shadowball travel faster, like Samus's charged shot. Besides that, this move wouldn't need to much. Oh! Also, keeping the push-back Mewtwo receives from the larger shots is a must. And the glowing purple hands.

If they can't add in projectiles, his neutral b could be a Lucas-esque charge-up move. Instead of charging up his smashes however, It would charge up his killing throws: up throw and back throw. Basically the first up throw or back throw Mewtwo uses after charging will get increased damage and knockback and knockback growth (If those are the correct terms). This will allow him to get those critical up throw and back throw kills much quicker. The reason why it wouldn't affect other throws is because a Mewtwo player wouldn't want to waste the effects of the charge on one of the probable many down throws he was going to use to rack up damage on the opponent. And it wouldn't effect forward throw because after what I am going to suggest for side b, his forward throw will be a viable option to rack up damage as well. Animation-wise, Mewtwo's hands will glow with electrical energy after charging and the up throw or back throw the charge is used on will get a cool electrical effect as well. (Imagine Mewtwo's already epic up throw with electrical effects)

Down Special: I believe that if they are able to code shadowball in, then this move could be the charge move instead. If not however and the charge move is neutral b, then this move would have to be different.

One idea is to have the move be a buffed version of his Melee down b, but I find that idea to be sort of lame. However, it's an idea, and if done right could be cool.

Another idea is to have his down be mix up the opponent's controls. It's interesting, but I think that would be very difficult to code.

Personally, if the shadowball wasn't able to be put in, and the charge-up move was Mewtwo's neutral b, I think the best thing to do with his down b would be to make it be similar to Charizard's down smash. It would be a psychic slam that would launch opponent's in the air. However it would have low knockback growth (Again, if that's the correct term), so it would be less of a kill move and more of a combo starter. Animation-wise Mewtwo could slam his tail into the ground and then you would see a psychic pulse come up from the ground.

Now for my most radical suggestion: side special.

Side Special: Side b is one that I ended up getting inspiration for from the first pokemon movie. During the fight between Mew and Mewtwo, Mewtwo creates a blue shield around himself. So I wanted to give a nod to that in my moveset. I decided that side special will be like my proposed dash attack in that it's more of a movement option than an actual attack.

So basically, Mewtwo dashes diagonally forward and up with his blue shield thing around him. Like his dash attack, this move will be a respectably quick movement option with either no attack, or a tiny attack at the end of it. His shield will also reflect projectiles during the move like the new dash attack (We could even make dash attack's shield the blue shield from the movie as well).

So, what else about this new side b? Well, Mewtwo can jump cancel out of it, similar to Ike's side b. Therefore Mewtwo can wavedash/waveland out of it as well. However, unlike Ike's, Mewtwo's can't be charged, so the distance can't be lengthened from that. He can shorten the distance though by jump cancelling. The distance of the move isn't tremendously far (Think like if Mewtwo used it from the middle of Yoshi's story, it would take him to the middle of one of the side platforms. That gives a good idea of length and height). Also, Mewtwo can't press A to attack out of it. And once he uses side b, whether from the ground, or mid air, he can't use it again until he touches the ground.

Now for the really radical part. If Mewtwo presses b during this move when next to an opponent, he will execute a mid-air grab. Now to make this different from Lucario's, Mewtwo's mid-air grab will not be a kill move. Instead, Mewtwo will grab and throw the opponent diagonally down behind him. Also, Mewtwo will not physically grab the opponent, he will use psychic energy. Also, if Mewtwo decides to use the b mid-air grab from side b, he can't jump after the mid air grab, but he can airdodge, waveland, and up b as well as his aerials and what not.

Basically, imagine this scenario. Mewtwo grabs his opponent, he forward throws. After that, he follows up with a side b and presses b when next to his opponent to use his mid-air psychic throw. He throws the opponent diagonally down behind him (Basically where he started the forward throw in the first place). Mewtwo is able to follow up with a teleport just barely before the opponent hits the ground, but the opponent techs. Fortunately, the opponent teched towards Mewtwo, so Mewtwo wavedashes and tech chases for the easy regrab.

So what does this move help? Well, it helps a whole bunch. It gives Mewtwo a new quick movement option that allows for decent options out of it, a way to deal with projectiles (Sort of, along with Dash Attack), a new way to combo, a way to follow up forward throw, a boost to his recovery, and most importantly, a new way to approach. I think it would be his biggest buff of my proposed changes.

Mewtwo's match-ups against those who could stay diagonally above and in front of him (*cough* Peach! *cough*) were horrendously bad. He had no way to approach them. Basically this new side b allows for a way to approach them. That being said, even though it has high reward (Mid air grab), it isn't tremendously safe due to the lack of a hitbox/decent hitbox on the move. Basically it requires smart play and careful timing to use correctly.

Also, there are ways to use this mid-air grab as a kill move, but it would basically require the Mewtwo player to use it off the stage to the side, so that when he did the mid-air throw, he would throw the opponent down and behind him off the stage where the side b was originally started. Of course this move wouldn't be a spike, but it would be decent-ish if someone wanted to mix up and use it as a kill move that way. It would probably depend on the recovery of the person they were using it against.

Now, this was from a while ago and I have gone back and forth on a few things since then. For example, now I'm not too sure I would want the Uair animation to be changed. I still like my side b idea though, but I completely understand that it is kind of radical and most likely the thing that some people won't like. I also understand that some of this might not be possible, but at least the write up is here for brainstorm purposes.

Also, I haven't downloaded this yet but only because I can't find my sd card adapter. Once I do though, I will be trying this out!

 

[Nguz95]

Here's an idea that could be pretty important to Mewtwo. So, in Project M, Ness and Lucas can double jump cancel in two ways. The first completely halts their momentum, and is activated by doing a quick press of whatever jump button you are using and then doing the aerial. The second is a rising aerial, which means Ness and Lucas continue their double jump while using the aerial. This is activated by holding down the jump button while you do the aerial, or just holding it down for a little longer. I was wondering if anybody would be interested in having that mechanic for Mewtwo. It seems like being able to rise while doing a nair or bair would be really useful, and having the option of doing it is always good.

What this means for Mewtwo is that you might have to change the way you jump with him, since the timing on the halting aerial is a little strict. Most Ness and Lucas players use tap jump for the halting aerial because you can't get a rising aerial when you tap jump. They then use x or y when they want to rise while doing an aerial, because it's easier to hold those buttons down for longer.

So those are the pros and cons of using this method, please tell me what you think!

 

[_R@bid_]

I think a system just like Lucas and Ness would be great. It makes him fit in with the other DJC chars and allows easier transition to and from them. And more options is always better.

 

[SmashGuy]

Hey Nugz! I'm still in progress in learning and hopefully I'm understanding. I've been a little busy lately sorry about that. But I'm still gonna try and help later!

 

[Nguz95]

Hey Nugz! I'm still in progress in learning and hopefully I'm understanding. I've been a little busy lately sorry about that. But I'm still gonna try and help later!

Sounds good to me! I'm glad you are learning, and please don't worry about this too much. Whenever you have the time is perfect for me!

 

[_R@bid_]

Another mind jab idea: instead of editing the mind jab animation, why not just edit the idle to have much less drastic changes so you don't notice any hitch?

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I did the exact same thing you are doing before, modifying the Project Mewtwo so that he would suck less. But I also couldn't figure out how to make Dash Dance and Wavedash look how they are supposed to... Would be a great step forward making them look natural.

His Jump height seems a bit lower than original but it may just be me... Also I recall his wavedash being different in Melee- that problem comes from the Project Mewtwo PSA we based this off and I failed to find a good way to change the timing/extend it (It should be as long as the roll at least). Also what is up with the Uair hitbox? I can't hit a standing enemy with the front at all... But the tail is clearly going through them. One thing I did was reduce the ultra landing lag of this move because it can be really good once it approaches Mario/CFalcon Uair levels.

Anyways I may be wrong on a lot of things but.. Definitely look into that Uair. And of course... The Jab <.< The one that originally comes in actually worked kinda better when doing the second part though it may not be a bad idea to just change the whole thing so it's like Ganon or Zelda's instead.

I also experimented with making the UpB more like Sonic/GW so that you can move after it but not upB anymore in order to do cool combos. My coding for that was kinda fail and maybe it was too OP... But it was definitely very cool.

 

[Nguz95]

I did the exact same thing you are doing before, modifying the Project Mewtwo so that he would suck less. But I also couldn't figure out how to make Dash Dance and Wavedash look how they are supposed to... Would be a great step forward making them look natural.

His Jump height seems a bit lower than original but it may just be me... Also I recall his wavedash being different in Melee- that problem comes from the Project Mewtwo PSA we based this off and I failed to find a good way to change the timing/extend it (It should be as long as the roll at least). Also what is up with the Uair hitbox? I can't hit a standing enemy with the front at all... But the tail is clearly going through them. One thing I did was reduce the ultra landing lag of this move because it can be really good once it approaches Mario/CFalcon Uair levels.

Anyways I may be wrong on a lot of things but.. Definitely look into that Uair. And of course... The Jab <.< The one that originally comes in actually worked kinda better when doing the second part though it may not be a bad idea to just change the whole thing so it's like Ganon or Zelda's instead.

I also experimented with making the UpB more like Sonic/GW so that you can move after it but not upB anymore in order to do cool combos. My coding for that was kinda fail and maybe it was too OP... But it was definitely very cool.

Nice to see you again! Your post in the project Mewtwo thread was why I decided to try and balance him! I know what you mean about some of the coding stuff, it can be really hard. Right now I have the wavedash the same length as Melee, and I'm pretty sure the shielding thing is fixed too. His jump height should match Melee. His head touches the bottom platform on Battlefield, he just barely makes it onto the platform with a full hop, and his double jump, if you do it fast enough, carries him just above the top platform. I haven't touched his jab yet, but I am thinking a Ganon style jab should be perfect. You re totally right about the uair though. There aren't any hitboxes active at the very start of the animation, which I think should be changed.
Thank you so much for your feedback, and keep an eye out for a new version, I'm bug testing a sweet addition to his side-b now!

 

[Chibi-Chan]

OH SO IT WAS YOU, YAY! I got punished for posting in that thread so kinda avoiding KC:MM forums for now <.<

The shield thing on wavedash still happens unless you only very lightly tap L/R in the wavedash but upon further testing I managed to get some of the long wavedashes by doing it properly.. Might be my lack of practice. Going to take your word on the Jump Height thing. Uair should be really easy to fix by either just expanding the hitbox or offsetting it closer to his front (Or both).. If you are positive the box is right but it's not showing up in the first frames then you have a way simpler issue.

So what will SideB do now? is it a surprise? ^_^ If it was possible to give it a more scaling hitstun that move would rock... But maybe It's something else? Your Mewtwo is pretty cool so gonna trust you <3

BTW I think the Fmash and maybe Dsmash are just unsalvageable from Melee. I gave them better IASA frames so they were safer and it turned out pretty cool.

 

[Nguz95]

Hmm... Dang. I though I got rid of that stupid shielding problem. I'll have to see if I can fix it for sure this time. Thank you for reporting that. For the Uair I might have to change the animation a little so the TransN bone (the invisible one) is at the tail during the few frames of the animation. It shouldn't be that hard to fix at all. The idea about the IASA frames is actually perfect! I didn't even think about that so thank you very much! I actually think I am going to make a new fsmash animation that only uses one hand, as per ItalianStallion's suggestion. I think it will be more like Mario's fmsash, just not quite as fast or as powerful. However, it might send opponents at a slightly lower angle, I'm not sure. I want to give him more horizontal killing options in order to improve his MUs against fast-fallers without making him ridiculous. The side-b buff should be really cool. It's more useful than scaling hitstun. Unfortunately in this PSA the side b is actually controlled by a really weak grab instead of an actual attack. That means there isn't actually any knockback or hitstun to change . However, I think i have come up with a cool and really useful solution. Stay tuned!

 

[Mewter]

Nice Melee Mewtwo 1, Nguz!
One thing I noticed about his dash is that the speed is high at the start and normal walking speed for the rest. This means that in order to move faster (and it is pretty fast) I keep tapping in order to move at a more dashy speed. It's very fast, but maybe too fast as a dash. If the true dash could be somewhere between there and the walking speed, that would be swell.

I haven't compared this to Melee Mewtwo yet, so I'll do that later.

 

[Nguz95]

Nice Melee Mewtwo 1, Nguz!
One thing I noticed about his dash is that the speed is high at the start and normal walking speed for the rest. This means that in order to move faster (and it is pretty fast) I keep tapping in order to move at a more dashy speed. It's very fast, but maybe too fast as a dash. If the true dash could be somewhere between there and the walking speed, that would be swell.

I haven't compared this to Melee Mewtwo yet, so I'll do that later.

Thank you! I did that so when i do get him to dash dance he will be able to travel really far horizontally when he jumps out of it. I got that idea from Ike, who is deadly out of a dash dance. I finally figured out how to increase his dash speed, so right now I have him moving at 1.5 time his original speed. That should be good, but I need to figure out how to compare that to other characters. Glad you like it!

 

[Chibi-Chan]

^^^^ You mean like Fox Trotting or spamming initial dash animation? That is actually faster for a lot of characters (Like Fox) and it's not really anything special if Mewtwo is actually moving faster like that. If anything it just looks weird because of his animations.

 

[Generically Epic]

does this work?
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=59365.0

 

[_R@bid_]

Pretty sure it has a chance of random freezes, though I don't use it myself. What does work, however, is this.
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=51912.0
Compare this code to the file patch 3.5.1 used by PM and delete all lines that are the same before putting the new code in, or you'll probably screw something up.
Edit: gave the link to 3.5.5, which I haven't tested, and just noticed you've found the version I was going to link to anyways.

 

[GigasOverlord]

I was running your Mewtwo earlier for about 40 or so matches with the new 2.6 stuff (not sure if that even makes a difference), and I compared it to Melee because I was curious. Here are some of the changes, tweaks, and general things I noticed that could be implemented to make it more P:M-ified. Take note that almost all of the damage and knockback is on par unless otherwise stated.

Spoiler

General: That tail, mang! I understand that it's not finished, so I cannot wait until the bones/rigging/skeleton is fully functional. That is probably the biggest thing that prevents P:Mewtwo from feeling more organic/authentic.

Jab: His jab is a great concept. As it is right now, mashing the A button makes his do a little arm flick that looks like it should be an extra attack, but it does nothing. I approve of a Ganon jab, but it would most likely use a different animation or just a slightly modified version of the current animation. Apples' idea of a psychic/non-interacting jab is a great idea, and it uses little to no animation. I'd just change the damage and/or knockback if it's a Ganon.

D-Tilt: The only thing wrong with this is the tail animation.

F-Tilt: See D-Tilt.

U-Tilt: See D-Tilt.

F-Smash: F-Smash is nearly perfect. The only thing I could bear to add on would be lessening the endlag by probably 2 frames, but that's just a gripe.

D-Smash: D-Smash could benefit from less endlag and a slightly faster start. As it stands now, he pauses for about one second after firing it, whereas in Melee he could fire it and move in maybe 5 frames.

U-Smash: The overall animation of this attack is really smooth; props to you, Nguz. The only gripe I have is that the startup and maybe actual attack animation could be sped up slightly. Oddly enough, the current P:Mewtwo packs less endlag than that of Meleetwo. Also, it hits directly in front of him.

Dash Attack: Dash attack looks disjointed when it's firing off. It feels like he begins to dash, then pauses, then attacks. It just needs some smoothing out.

Grab Range: I didn't actually notice that much discrepancy between P:M and Melee in this regard, most likely because they were already Pringled before I ven attempted a grab in the first place.

Pummel: The pummel is fine as is. The only thing I would change personally would be to make it Shadow element instead of electric. Shadow just looks so cool!

F-Throw: The projectile linking is a great addition. The only thing I'd do it enlarge the projectiles slightly so that more of them hit, but it works fine as is.

B-Throw: This and U-Throw are replicas of Melee in all their cannon-esque launching glory. Props, Nguz.

U-Throw: See B-Throw.

D-Throw: This one has the whole tail animation issue packed with it. I do have a suggestion for a new animation though. It could be turned into a psychic throw where he slams his opponent into the ground. They would bounce for the same damage and knockback. In addition to looking cool as hell, the whole "relies on psychic power" idea for Mewtwo just fits canon more. The animation would also be pretty easy to make, seeing as the F-Throw animation should just be shooped over to D-Throw and reversed.

Jump: His jump is spot on with Melee.

Double Jump: Near the end of the double jump animation, it begins to look a little bit choppy. A little smoothing, and it'll be as clean as Melee.

N-Air: The properties of the attack are fine, but sometimes (Maybe all the time?) Mewtwo emits an "impact shockwave" when the animation starts. Not a big deal, but can get a little intrusive on the opticals when L-Cancelled in succession.

F-Air: Shadow Claw! This move is a replica. The only gripe is that the shadow effect on Mewtwo's hand could be cut down a bit. It also has almost no platform lag. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not, but it doesn't really change how he interacts with enemies or the stage.

B-Air: Tail animation issues aside, it works like a charm.

U-Air: Tail issues.

D-Air: The psychic "indicator" could be slightly smaller. It wasn't there in Melee, but it makes the attack feel better and more visceral when you land it, almost like a Bowser headbutt. It just sometimes distracted me when I SHFFL'd it because I'd lose place of where the floor was, but that might just be me.

Get-up Attack: It has literally no lag. I'm not sure if that was intentional, but I can SHFFL N-Airs out of it pretty easily.

Shadow Ball: The charge time on this feels a bit off to me. It does 22% at full compared to 25% Melee, but takes about 2 seconds to get there. If anything changed about this, it would be the charge time to damage/knockback ratio. I just feel that it takes too long to charge to be used efficiently. That might just be me being used to using Lucario religiously in 2.1, though. The animation for throwing uncharged SBs is also janked up. The ball fires a little bit, maybe 5 frames slower, than that of the arm moving. While it's charging, it makes a "Whoosh" like sound near the end. Was that intentional, or is it a glitch?

Confusion: Confusion doesn't hit directly in front of Mewtwo in P:M, but does in Melee. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not, but hitting adjacent would make this move worlds better. An idea to make this move better, I would suggest reducing the damage and making the opponent forced into a tumble state. As it stands, a Mario in the 2.6 engine can actually jump cleanly out of it, or at least air dodge up to a Pokemon Stadium 2 platform.

Disable: This move is insanely short. In Melee, it has a reach of about 1/2 of a Fountain of Dreams platform. In P:M, it packs about half of that. The launch hitbox also fires off randomly. Sometimes I get it when I Disable an already Disabled opponent, or just Disable close to the opponent. In Melee, it only launched already Disabled opponents at adjacent range. Curiously, Melee Disable does not hit adjacent. P:Mewtwo would benefit from being able to Disable at close range. Finally, Mewtwo cannot Disable on slopes when the enemy is below him. This may seem like a minor gripe, but it would be nice to alter the hitbox to scoop low so opponents like Pikachu and Luigi can't just crawl under your Disable and D-Smash you.

Teleport: The only thing I would change is just speeding up the animation before the teleport happens, just to make it look smoother. As an aside, mindgames ahoy if the Teleport and air dodge animations were identical like in Melee.

Random Stuff: The sound effects for his tilt attacks are the item toss SFX, correct? Would it be possible to shoop some of Lucario's other sounds over them? I ask because I use Hackless P:M, so I can't edit in-game SFX at all.

His dizzy animation looks a like more cardboard than his Melee one. This is something that most people won't see, so it's not too much of a big deal. It would just be nice to see it smoothed out a bit. This would probably be bottom of the bottom priority, though.

After Mewtwo is done his victory animations, he stands very static and rigid. Would it be possible to make him feel more organic by adding minor movements like floating or breathing? I'm not sure if his staticness is a callback to Melee with their victory stills, but I'd figure I'd ask anyways. It just looks weird to see a still Mewtwo amongst moving, clapping competitors.

His taunts are kind of weird. His side taunt has really strong wind, and his down taunt heals him for 5% damage. The wind is not that much of an issue, but the 5% healing is a little strong. Just something I would fix. Also, would it be possible to just shoop some Lucario sound effects over his taunts? "Feel the Aura" just sounds weird coming from Mewtwo.

If you need more help playtesting, I'd be happy to.

 

[Mewter]

@Gigas Overlord
http://www.mediafire.com/?0n3e7r3g2sh1xe7
http://www.mediafire.com/?87azmbxja7hxk78
http://www.mediafire.com/?2db83td0r2ew2t2
http://www.mediafire.com/?2db83td0r2ew2t2
http://www.mediafire.com/?8zhhs0f6znxn20a

Try these out and let me know if these are the tail issues you are talking about.

 

[Nguz95]

@Gigas Overlord
http://www.mediafire.com/?0n3e7r3g2sh1xe7
http://www.mediafire.com/?87azmbxja7hxk78
http://www.mediafire.com/?2db83td0r2ew2t2
http://www.mediafire.com/?2db83td0r2ew2t2
http://www.mediafire.com/?8zhhs0f6znxn20a

Try these out and let me know if these are the tail issues you are talking about.

Are these other textures? I'll check them out to see if any of them have the right bone structure.

 

[GigasOverlord]

Okay, I tried the skins out. The second half of his tail is straight, regardless of which skin I use. I think this is a bone issue. The textures did help with things like U-Tilt, D-Tilt, and B-Air, though. Also, his Jab is timed weird in order to get the second one out. It's a tap, delay, then tap and hold, which is odd to use in actual combat. Also, his Shadow Ball doesn't push him off of the ledge when he is near it firing inward. Is the texture the Starwaffle one? I was using Data-Drain's one, if only just for the Grey Mewtwo. If textures really cause that much of an issue, Nguz should OP the one that fits all the animations best.

 

[Nguz95]

Okay, I tried the skins out. The second half of his tail is straight, regardless of which skin I use. I think this is a bone issue. The textures did help with things like U-Tilt, D-Tilt, and B-Air, though. Also, his Jab is timed weird in order to get the second one out. It's a tap, delay, then tap and hold, which is odd to use in actual combat. Also, his Shadow Ball doesn't push him off of the ledge when he is near it firing inward. Is the texture the Starwaffle one? I was using Data-Drain's one, if only just for the Grey Mewtwo. If textures really cause that much of an issue, Nguz should OP the one that fits all the animations best.

The one that is in the original download is the one I have had the best results with. I am currently trying to figure out a way to add bones to mewtwo, but I am not currently having any luck. I think i might have to re-rig the entire texture! But I can't figure out how to do that...
Until then, i am currently testing my side-b, which has been giving me problems.

 

[GigasOverlord]

Yeah, the Fit00 that Mewter gave me fits the skeleton the best. For the Side-B, the only problems I found were the adjacent hitboxing. The jab could also use constant damage boxes instead of just having the three and then an empty handwave.

Out of curiosity, Mewter, where did that Fit00 come from? I'd like to have full recolors for my Mewtwo. Also, using Lucario as a base makes the "default" color have to be blue for team coloring to work properly.

 

[Mewter]

It was a long time ago, but I think I changed the texture file so that it uses a different model as a reference. I'll have to check though.

 

[Doomolish]

Seems great! Except for the part of deleting Lucario. I'm gonna try it anyway.

 

[Nguz95]

Seems great! Except for the part of deleting Lucario. I'm gonna try it anyway.

Please do, and let me know what you think! I am currently having little success getting him to work over Samus, but I think I can put him over other cast members, so I might offer different .rels so people can pick and choose who they put him over.

 

[_R@bid_]

http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=61460.0
Will this project have sfx for Gecko users as a result of this?

 

[PseudoTypical]

http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=61460.0
Will this project have sfx for Gecko users as a result of this?

Sorry to get off topic, but this is awesome. Is it already part of P:M, particularly on the hackless version?

 

[_R@bid_]

Sorry to get off topic, but this is awesome. Is it already part of P:M, particularly on the hackless version?

The code came out after the latest build of PM, so no. But you can always put it in yourself, which I plan to if it means I can have full Mewtwo sfx.