Project GENO - MarioDK Demo out

[Shadic]

90% sure I can't.

And yeah, I'm also (obviously) a fan of the current physics on Geno.

 

[humble]

Just want to say I like the idea of giving him a hand tether, especially if you created small flame GFX behind his hand as it shoots out, so his rocket hand would become a reality. If you guys are debating physics, I support the idea of a faster, more technical character.

Just an individual move idea, but for his downtilt, could you make it so he swishes around into a crouch facing away, and as he does so a small blanket of stars appear on the ground behind him which has a spike hitbox into the ground. It'd give him a techchase setup plus those darn stars are so purty. :B

 

[Shadic]

I really like his current Dtilt, actually.

 

[Matteron]

I think you should make a new dash attack and aerials. Other than that, it's fine.

 

[link2702]

just out of curiousity.....does anyone have any vids of geno in action? like as he is right now? or is he still not in development far enough yet?


just curious.....@_@ i know....noob question.

 

[TommoPuppy]

Excuse me! I'm pretty sure a VAST majority of Brawl players, even if you just count the ones with hacks, play Vanilla Brawl. It's not a question of which is the best to play, it's a question of where you can find the largest audience. You can't just pick a mod that few people play just because you prefer it, because then you'd be putting in a lot of effort for a small audience. And many people have said that it's not hard to make a Brawl+ version of a VBrawl character, either. Put in the effort and make versions for each!

 

[Dakaggo]

I think when this is done I'm going to try to get the guys from BBrawl to adapt it for VBrawl/BBrawl. Last time I checked they don't really have any sort of projects in the works and I think they did a great job adjusting the other characters without altering them too much.

 

[Shadic]

Excuse me! I'm pretty sure a VAST majority of Brawl players, even if you just count the ones with hacks, play Vanilla Brawl. It's not a question of which is the best to play, it's a question of where you can find the largest audience.

I doubt that.

You can't just pick a mod that few people play just because you prefer it,

Yes I can. Geno was made for B+, is hilariously unpolished, and still has over 1000 posts and 70,000 views. I think I'm doing fine.

And many people have said that it's not hard to make a Brawl+ version of a VBrawl character, either. Put in the effort and make versions for each!

Somebody else can make a version for a version of Geno. As you said, it's not hard. I don't fine BBrawl or VBrawl fun, so I have no incentive or desire to spend my time doing primary character building and playtesting in a molasses game.

 

[Matteron]

Quick update on the Link Version of Geno, I've found out that the game will freeze after any event including training mode, Shadic, do you know if Geno directly call upon any sort of file that toon link has?

 

[humble]

I doubt that.


Yes I can. Geno was made for B+, is hilariously unpolished, and still has over 1000 posts and 70,000 views. I think I'm doing fine.



Somebody else can make a version for a version of Geno. As you said, it's not hard. I don't fine BBrawl or VBrawl fun, so I have no incentive or desire to spend my time doing primary character building and playtesting in a molasses game.

As I've already said, I, or another coder, will make versions for the other mods after Shadic finishes. It's already been decided anyway, it's not a big deal.

Current dtilt is cool anyway.

In order to better make movesets for Geno, could someone perhaps explain him as a character? How does he play in SMRPG? What's his defining mechanism? His gimmick, or defining feature?

 

[Shadic]

Quick update on the Link Version of Geno, I've found out that the game will freeze after any event including training mode, Shadic, do you know if Geno directly call upon any sort of file that toon link has?

I have no idea, honestly.

In order to better make movesets for Geno, could someone perhaps explain him as a character? How does he play in SMRPG? What's his defining mechanism? His gimmick, or defining feature?

Geno is by far the fastest character in SMRPG. He has projectile attacks, but will physically attack in cutscenes. He also jumps in the middle of things, sometimes.

As far as attitude, I suppose cool would describe it?

 

[Uncle0wnage]

he shouldn't be floaty, he should be quick and technical, like fox, but his aerial should pull him in the direction of the aerial, like a puppet being pulled by strings, oh and I think B+ is fine, but whatever you feel comfortable with, Shadic

 

[humble]

So he is a speedy character who attacks fast...ok- what attacks does he have in the games? Does he ever use his doll/puppet attributes? More physical attacks, or otherwise?

 

[Shadic]

Each character gets like, three or four different types of weapons in SMRPG.

Geno has:
Finger Shot
Elbow Cannon
Fist Rocket
Star Rod

Here's some basic info on Geno.

 

[Dakaggo]

So he is a speedy character who attacks fast...ok- what attacks does he have in the games? Does he ever use his doll/puppet attributes? More physical attacks, or otherwise?

All of his attacks make use of the fact that he is a puppet and he usually takes a weapon out of somewhere like his wrist or elbow or in some cases he transforms although Geno Flash is the only one I can think of, I don't think there are any others.

Geno is very offensive in a lot of ways. His attitude is cool but aggressive. Although he doesn't lose his cool he interrupts villains fairly often if I remember.

He's very fast and in the case of geno whirl timing is very important.

So I'd say he should be a fast offensive character with relatively hard to use moves. So probably not a lot of huge slow attacks. More quick attacks that have a relatively small hitbox and relatively high damage or knockback, but in most cases I'd suggest one or the other not both. I think his specials should give him a bit more range and possibly help him create an opening to get in close as opposed to knocking them away.

I think sweet spots are definitely fitting for him although I don't think they should be super powerful like some are and instead would simply be a little stronger which would make a skilled player much better than a novice using Geno. At least, that's my suggestion anyway.

Shadic I really think it'd be ideal to go down the list one move at a time and discuss how we can improve it or change it to make it better (or leave it be). Otherwise if we just go with it until someone brings it up we might end up with a lesser result.

 

[Shadic]

He's basically what I feel needs to be redone. It's most of his moveset.

[collapse="Geno Moves"]Jab:
Fighter: Spark - Geno jabs his hand forward quickly, and unleashes a magic flash, capable of sending the opponent back quite a bit.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Ftilt:
Fighter: Up Flash - Geno does a quick twirl, unleashing magic capable of sending the opponent up a slight amount. Great for beginning combos, and the angle can be changed by tilting the control stick.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Dtilt:
Fighter: Speedshine - Geno blasts energy behind and in front of him, knocking the opponent away with decent base knockback. However, don't expect this move to kill!
SHOULD BE CLEANED UP.

Utilt:
Fighter: Shine Spin - Geno spins, radiating star power. The move sends the opponent upwards for follow-up attacks.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Dash Attack:
Fighter: Quick Trip - Get flips backwards, sliding forward and kicking the opponent. If you only hit with the first kick, the opponent will be sent backwards at a very low trajectory. However, if both hits connect, the opponent pops upward, giving a perfect combo starting attack!
SHOULD BE CLEANED UP. IDEA IS GOOD.

FSmash:
Fighter: 7-Star Strike - Geno hits his opponent seven times with a rapid flurry of stars, sending them flying a good distance away with the last hit.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

DSmash:
Fighter: Nova Shell - Geno unleashes a medium-sized burst of energy all around his body. He's invincible durning this for a short time, as well.
COULD BE REPLACED.

USmash:
Fighter: Star Burst - Geno focuses energy into the all around him, sucking the opponent upwards, then causes an explosion of stars which blasts opponents straight outwards. It's slow, but very powerful.
SHOULD BE REPLACED?

Nair:
Cosmic: Orbital Spin - Geno spins his body in the air rapidly, hitting anyone who comes too close.
SHOULD BE KEPT?

Fair:
Fighter: Geno Rush - Geno boosts forward with star energy, and then hits with a small flash. Works great during recoveries as well.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Dair:
Fighter: Energy Stomp - Geno stomps downward quickly, sending the opponent flying. Hitting with this attack provides a small upward boost, as well.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Bair:
Fighter: Geno Kick - Geno gives a two-legged kick behind him, sending the opponent flying! A sweetspotted attack is done in the initial attack, while the orbs of energy at Geno's feet are still there.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Uair:
Fighter: Sky Shot - Geno creates a quick flash above him, sending the opponent straight up. Works great for killing opponents off the top.
SHOULD BE KEPT?

NeutB:
Cosmic: Geno Beam - Geno focuses energy into his Star Gun, charging it into a powerful long-range beam that sends opponents flying back. Charging it three times brings it to maximum power, but waiting any longer causes it to weaken. He can also fire it without charging at all, although this will result in a very small burst. In the air, only the small, uncharged version can be used. Knockback probably needs to adjusted.
SHOULD BE KEPT/FIXED.


SideB:
Fighter: Geno Whirl - Geno tosses a speedy energy disk, dealing damage to opponents. Pressing the A button immediately before the attack connects deals a powerful blow that can KO at around 100% damage, but pressing it too early causes the attack to become exceedingly weak. One of Geno's best killing moves, but it takes some practice to land the critical hit and its long start-up makes it easy to dodge.
SHOULD BE A REAL PROJECTILE.

DownB:
Cosmic: Geno Blast - Geno raises his hands into the air, focusing energy into the sky above him, then sends it streaming down onto any unsuspecting opponents. The attack deals tremendous amounts of damage
(up to over 40% damage at full charge!) and has a wide range, but it has no knockback and a very long start-up and ending lag. It also has a blind spot right next to Geno, leaving him wide open to any opponents who avoid the blast. Like Geno Beam, it can be charged up to three times but weakens if it is not released after the third charge. If Geno uses this in the air, he will hover and fire the energy from his own hands instead. The aerial version is weaker and lasts shorter than the ground version. Also, it cannot be charged, and puts him into free-fall.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.


UpB:
Cosmic: Geno Boost - Geno rises into the air, radiating energy. He will take no knockback if hit during the first part of the move. After using the move, he will glow with energy, and any aerial attacks he uses while falling will be more powerful than usual. Unlike most recovery moves, Geno retains his second jump after using Geno Boost. He can also use the ability again while falling in order to slow his descent or to defend against attacks.
HAVE COMPLICATED IDEAS, MUST DISCUSS WITH ELDIRAN.

FThrow:
Fighter: Cosmic Toss - Geno flips the opponent around and throws them with his magic. A fairly powerful throw.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.


DThrow:
Fighter: Energy Blast - Geno stands on top of the opponent, blasting them with tons of magical power.
SHOULD BE CLEANED UP.

BThrow:
Fighter: Geno Fling - Geno spins the opponent around, holding them above him with magical energy. He then throws them backward, in a move able to KO those who are high on damage.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.
UThrow:
Fighter: Star Hurl - Geno throws the opponent up into the stars!
SHOULD BE REPLACED.[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Xaranid]

Comments within the quotes.

He's basically what I feel needs to be redone. It's most of his moveset.

[collapse="Geno Moves"]Jab:
Fighter: Spark - Geno jabs his hand forward quickly, and unleashes a magic flash, capable of sending the opponent back quite a bit.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

I think the jab would be a great place to include the finger gun, a la cosmic geno. Doesnt have to be the same exact thing, but i like the idea of a finger gun jab.

Ftilt:
Fighter: Up Flash - Geno does a quick twirl, unleashing magic capable of sending the opponent up a slight amount. Great for beginning combos, and the angle can be changed by tilting the control stick.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Ehhh, not sure how i feel about magic throughout the moveset. It fits i guess, but id like to see more artillery type attacks. Something that pushes the "armed puppet" motif.

Dtilt:
Fighter: Speedshine - Geno blasts energy behind and in front of him, knocking the opponent away with decent base knockback. However, don't expect this move to kill!
SHOULD BE CLEANED UP.

The move itself is cool, but i agree that it could be cleaned...not sure what else to say on this one.

Utilt:
Fighter: Shine Spin - Geno spins, radiating star power. The move sends the opponent upwards for follow-up attacks.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Not sure on this one...maybe a quick gunshot into the air?

Dash Attack:
Fighter: Quick Trip - Get flips backwards, sliding forward and kicking the opponent. If you only hit with the first kick, the opponent will be sent backwards at a very low trajectory. However, if both hits connect, the opponent pops upward, giving a perfect combo starting attack!
SHOULD BE CLEANED UP. IDEA IS GOOD.

Agreed.

FSmash:
Fighter: 7-Star Strike - Geno hits his opponent seven times with a rapid flurry of stars, sending them flying a good distance away with the last hit.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.


Honestly, i reeaaaally aren't too crazy about this attack. I like Cosmic Geno's star shot mechanic, with a timed shot for extra power.

DSmash:
Fighter: Nova Shell - Geno unleashes a medium-sized burst of energy all around his body. He's invincible durning this for a short time, as well.
COULD BE REPLACED.

I kind of like this attack lol I'm not sure what it has to do with Geno, but it looks kind of cool and i think it alludes to the star spirit thing loosely - shows off his power (as a character)

USmash:
Fighter: Star Burst - Geno focuses energy into the all around him, sucking the opponent upwards, then causes an explosion of stars which blasts opponents straight outwards. It's slow, but very powerful.
SHOULD BE REPLACED?

I heard an idea for this attack i really liked. During the charge, geno's body falls limp. When the A button is released, a small star (a.k.a. the star spirit ?!<3* [or whatever his real name is] flies out and strikes above him. When the attack is done the star flies back into the body and he gets up. this would happen fast of course, not as a huge cinematic thing, and i think it would be cool looking.

Nair:
Cosmic: Orbital Spin - Geno spins his body in the air rapidly, hitting anyone who comes too close.
SHOULD BE KEPT?

I like this one from Cosmic Geno, it gets my vote.

Fair:
Fighter: Geno Rush - Geno boosts forward with star energy, and then hits with a small flash. Works great during recoveries as well.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

This is the Bowyer punch, right? I wasnt too crazy about it at first, but its a cool concept that references the game well. I say polish it and keep it.

Dair:
Fighter: Energy Stomp - Geno stomps downward quickly, sending the opponent flying. Hitting with this attack provides a small upward boost, as well.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

I hate this move :/ A LOT of characters have a downward kick as their Dair. If you can have the foot retract and have a small rocket sort of thing releasing the fire and providing the upward boost i could get behind it more though.

Bair:
Fighter: Geno Kick - Geno gives a two-legged kick behind him, sending the opponent flying! A sweetspotted attack is done in the initial attack, while the orbs of energy at Geno's feet are still there.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Pretty much same as above, a backwards kick is overly done. I like the general idea behind Cosmic's as a multi shot move. IE - quick turn that fires three shots behind him.

Uair:
Fighter: Sky Shot - Geno creates a quick flash above him, sending the opponent straight up. Works great for killing opponents off the top.
SHOULD BE KEPT?

It gets the job done, but if someone has a better idea id vote against it lol

NeutB:
Cosmic: Geno Beam - Geno focuses energy into his Star Gun, charging it into a powerful long-range beam that sends opponents flying back. Charging it three times brings it to maximum power, but waiting any longer causes it to weaken. He can also fire it without charging at all, although this will result in a very small burst. In the air, only the small, uncharged version can be used. Knockback probably needs to adjusted.
SHOULD BE KEPT/FIXED.

Definitely kept - love the move.

SideB:
Fighter: Geno Whirl - Geno tosses a speedy energy disk, dealing damage to opponents. Pressing the A button immediately before the attack connects deals a powerful blow that can KO at around 100% damage, but pressing it too early causes the attack to become exceedingly weak. One of Geno's best killing moves, but it takes some practice to land the critical hit and its long start-up makes it easy to dodge.
SHOULD BE A REAL PROJECTILE.

Honestly i like it as-is lol Youve done a great job so far though, i trust that if you want to change the graphic it can only become more awsome. One of my favorite attacks in the moveset for its timed hit - kill move status.

DownB:
Cosmic: Geno Blast - Geno raises his hands into the air, focusing energy into the sky above him, then sends it streaming down onto any unsuspecting opponents. The attack deals tremendous amounts of damage
(up to over 40% damage at full charge!) and has a wide range, but it has no knockback and a very long start-up and ending lag. It also has a blind spot right next to Geno, leaving him wide open to any opponents who avoid the blast. Like Geno Beam, it can be charged up to three times but weakens if it is not released after the third charge. If Geno uses this in the air, he will hover and fire the energy from his own hands instead. The aerial version is weaker and lasts shorter than the ground version. Also, it cannot be charged, and puts him into free-fall.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

I actually really like this attack. Its kind of OP right now, but i think with some polish it would be great. Real impressive looking move that works off the timed hit well.

UpB:
Cosmic: Geno Boost - Geno rises into the air, radiating energy. He will take no knockback if hit during the first part of the move. After using the move, he will glow with energy, and any aerial attacks he uses while falling will be more powerful than usual. Unlike most recovery moves, Geno retains his second jump after using Geno Boost. He can also use the ability again while falling in order to slow his descent or to defend against attacks.
HAVE COMPLICATED IDEAS, MUST DISCUSS WITH ELDIRAN.

Love it as well, and love that it powers up aerials. Between you and Eldiran it can only become greater.

FThrow:
Fighter: Cosmic Toss - Geno flips the opponent around and throws them with his magic. A fairly powerful throw.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

How about a move where he holds the opponent in front of him and fires a blast that sends them flying?

DThrow:
Fighter: Energy Blast - Geno stands on top of the opponent, blasting them with tons of magical power.
SHOULD BE CLEANED UP.

I like it, but it reminds me a lot of Lucas's throw....obviously lol I think a more original thing would suit him better.

BThrow:
Fighter: Geno Fling - Geno spins the opponent around, holding them above him with magical energy. He then throws them backward, in a move able to KO those who are high on damage.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Same as the above.

UThrow:
Fighter: Star Hurl - Geno throws the opponent up into the stars!
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Ehhh, pretty much the same as the above, except that I think his Uthrow should be his strongest throw, since it sends them "skywards"[/COLLAPSE]

Overall I like the moveset a lot, but i think it could use more of the Timed hit feature to be more amazing than it us.

 

[Shadic]

I'm actually having conflicts between what I want all the specials to be. The two that must be kept are Geno Whirl and Geno Beam.

I have a really cool (I think) concept of an UpB that's part of the Geno = Star Being/Puppet idea, but I really do need to talk to Eldiran about the specifics. I may draw up a depressingly basic sketch of it.

 

[Matteron]

I think the Down B should be the Geno Rocket punch thing(forgot the name) on the ground, but the aerial Down B should stay the same.

 

[Dakaggo]

He's basically what I feel needs to be redone. It's most of his moveset.

[collapse="Geno Moves"]Jab:
Fighter: Spark - Geno jabs his hand forward quickly, and unleashes a magic flash, capable of sending the opponent back quite a bit.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Ftilt:
Fighter: Up Flash - Geno does a quick twirl, unleashing magic capable of sending the opponent up a slight amount. Great for beginning combos, and the angle can be changed by tilting the control stick.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Dtilt:
Fighter: Speedshine - Geno blasts energy behind and in front of him, knocking the opponent away with decent base knockback. However, don't expect this move to kill!
SHOULD BE CLEANED UP.

Utilt:
Fighter: Shine Spin - Geno spins, radiating star power. The move sends the opponent upwards for follow-up attacks.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Dash Attack:
Fighter: Quick Trip - Get flips backwards, sliding forward and kicking the opponent. If you only hit with the first kick, the opponent will be sent backwards at a very low trajectory. However, if both hits connect, the opponent pops upward, giving a perfect combo starting attack!
SHOULD BE CLEANED UP. IDEA IS GOOD.

FSmash:
Fighter: 7-Star Strike - Geno hits his opponent seven times with a rapid flurry of stars, sending them flying a good distance away with the last hit.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

DSmash:
Fighter: Nova Shell - Geno unleashes a medium-sized burst of energy all around his body. He's invincible durning this for a short time, as well.
COULD BE REPLACED.

USmash:
Fighter: Star Burst - Geno focuses energy into the all around him, sucking the opponent upwards, then causes an explosion of stars which blasts opponents straight outwards. It's slow, but very powerful.
SHOULD BE REPLACED?

Nair:
Cosmic: Orbital Spin - Geno spins his body in the air rapidly, hitting anyone who comes too close.
SHOULD BE KEPT?

Fair:
Fighter: Geno Rush - Geno boosts forward with star energy, and then hits with a small flash. Works great during recoveries as well.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Dair:
Fighter: Energy Stomp - Geno stomps downward quickly, sending the opponent flying. Hitting with this attack provides a small upward boost, as well.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Bair:
Fighter: Geno Kick - Geno gives a two-legged kick behind him, sending the opponent flying! A sweetspotted attack is done in the initial attack, while the orbs of energy at Geno's feet are still there.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Uair:
Fighter: Sky Shot - Geno creates a quick flash above him, sending the opponent straight up. Works great for killing opponents off the top.
SHOULD BE KEPT?

NeutB:
Cosmic: Geno Beam - Geno focuses energy into his Star Gun, charging it into a powerful long-range beam that sends opponents flying back. Charging it three times brings it to maximum power, but waiting any longer causes it to weaken. He can also fire it without charging at all, although this will result in a very small burst. In the air, only the small, uncharged version can be used. Knockback probably needs to adjusted.
SHOULD BE KEPT/FIXED.


SideB:
Fighter: Geno Whirl - Geno tosses a speedy energy disk, dealing damage to opponents. Pressing the A button immediately before the attack connects deals a powerful blow that can KO at around 100% damage, but pressing it too early causes the attack to become exceedingly weak. One of Geno's best killing moves, but it takes some practice to land the critical hit and its long start-up makes it easy to dodge.
SHOULD BE A REAL PROJECTILE.

DownB:
Cosmic: Geno Blast - Geno raises his hands into the air, focusing energy into the sky above him, then sends it streaming down onto any unsuspecting opponents. The attack deals tremendous amounts of damage
(up to over 40% damage at full charge!) and has a wide range, but it has no knockback and a very long start-up and ending lag. It also has a blind spot right next to Geno, leaving him wide open to any opponents who avoid the blast. Like Geno Beam, it can be charged up to three times but weakens if it is not released after the third charge. If Geno uses this in the air, he will hover and fire the energy from his own hands instead. The aerial version is weaker and lasts shorter than the ground version. Also, it cannot be charged, and puts him into free-fall.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.


UpB:
Cosmic: Geno Boost - Geno rises into the air, radiating energy. He will take no knockback if hit during the first part of the move. After using the move, he will glow with energy, and any aerial attacks he uses while falling will be more powerful than usual. Unlike most recovery moves, Geno retains his second jump after using Geno Boost. He can also use the ability again while falling in order to slow his descent or to defend against attacks.
HAVE COMPLICATED IDEAS, MUST DISCUSS WITH ELDIRAN.

FThrow:
Fighter: Cosmic Toss - Geno flips the opponent around and throws them with his magic. A fairly powerful throw.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.


DThrow:
Fighter: Energy Blast - Geno stands on top of the opponent, blasting them with tons of magical power.
SHOULD BE CLEANED UP.

BThrow:
Fighter: Geno Fling - Geno spins the opponent around, holding them above him with magical energy. He then throws them backward, in a move able to KO those who are high on damage.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.
UThrow:
Fighter: Star Hurl - Geno throws the opponent up into the stars!
SHOULD BE REPLACED.[/COLLAPSE]

Hmmm well I made some suggestions already. I'm not crazy about the Dtilt. The dash is alright but I'm not sure sliding really fits the character very well. I think the FSmash's concept is pretty good for a forward throw. Maybe a new animation and a few less strikes. Down smash is alright although it could look a little better I guess. For the Back throw maybe some sort of gun shot that knocks enemies diagonally back and down?

 

[Eldiran]

Perhaps to make Timed Hits an integral part of his gameplay without making it another L-Cancel, we could have it be a tradeoff of advantages? Such as a timed hit (pressing A when the opponent is struck during a move) would provide greater damage, but less knockback. Or the other way around.

Or, when A is pressed when the opponent is hit, it could initiate a second part of the attack, like Link's Fsmash or Snake's Ftilt, but dependent on hitting the opponent.

 

[Sterowent]

that's a good proposition, eldiran. using the timed hits in other ways many have done, including SMRPG (super jumps! and shell jumps, and glove attacks, and...). i've also always wanted to see the control of flub/sweetspot attacks mechanic, and geno sets up the conditions to use that very respectively.


about physics: i hope he isn't too floaty. when in doubt, remember his roots. he's from a nintendo game. always base yourself around mario's physics and work from there how he is different!

 

[Necro Toad]

Perhaps to make Timed Hits an integral part of his gameplay without making it another L-Cancel, we could have it be a tradeoff of advantages? Such as a timed hit (pressing A when the opponent is struck during a move) would provide greater damage, but less knockback. Or the other way around.

Eldiran, I liked your idea, but I confess that I already had thought about that and had changed my mind because Mario RPG isn't like that, and we have a lot of moves to make a tradeoff of advantages. I think that a unsuccessful timed hit have to be always worse than a successful timed hit, just because Mario RPG is like that. And we can force the player to train their reflexes to master the timed hits, increasing the learning curve of the character.

 

[Dakaggo]

Eldiran, I liked your idea, but I confess that I already had thought about that and had changed my mind because Mario RPG isn't like that, and we have a lot of moves to make a tradeoff of advantages. I think that a unsuccessful timed hit have to be always worse than a successful timed hit, just because Mario RPG is like that. And we can force the player to train their reflexes to master the timed hits, increasing the learning curve of the character.

While I agree with you I just don't think it would work out well. If with perfectly timed hits made him equal to the other characters then you'd have to master him just to compete. If timed hits made him better he'd be cheap. If the timed hits didn't have a large enough difference then they would barely be worth the effort to use.

I like the idea of them having higher knockback but less damage and maybe a different launch angle. I know it's not exactly in the spirit of the original but it's a good usable idea that makes him a more unique character. I think it's worth it.

Oh and as for the number of attacks with that effect being too much work you could easily limit it to smashes or smashes and throws.

 

[Mit]

You know, if the character is balanced, it should work fine in both BBrawl and vBrawl...

Just sayin' >_>

But MK and Snake will still **** him in vBrawl, like the rest of the cast (if he is actually balanced ).

 

[libertyernie]

If he's balanced in BBrawl, he'll do about as good in vBrawl as Diddy Kong would.
It has been decided that the first version of Geno will be Brawl+, right?

 

[Shadic]

That it has. Although I think I need to update the B+ gct for Geno, seeing as how they're using the antiquated method of modifying character gravity through a code, instead of the pac file.

 

[Necro Toad]

While I agree with you I just don't think it would work out well. If with perfectly timed hits made him equal to the other characters then you'd have to master him just to compete. If timed hits made him better he'd be cheap. If the timed hits didn't have a large enough difference then they would barely be worth the effort to use.

I like the idea of them having higher knockback but less damage and maybe a different launch angle. I know it's not exactly in the spirit of the original but it's a good usable idea that makes him a more unique character. I think it's worth it.

Oh and as for the number of attacks with that effect being too much work you could easily limit it to smashes or smashes and throws.

Yeah, you're right! maybe we could make the Timde Hits work like a Meter Smash! In the sense that they are usable only in some situations and have a very significant effect in battle!
Ex: maybe you could only use the timed hits if you're on the effect of GenoBoost, this way you have to go through an entire preparing, to execute a Timed Hit, on the other hand he has a far more destructive power than it currently has.

But thinking now, forcing the player to use the Timed Hits just to compete is not something so bad! believe that without using the timed hits Geno should be a low tier. instead, using properly timed hits, should make him a top tier.
It would be an experience like of someone who plays with Link. for example: You can not even play with other people if you have not mastered some techniques (glitchs) right away, as the Quick Bow, the DaC...

 

[Zebia]

About those timed hits, I do think they should work like in SMRPG, just being better than a mistimed one, big reason being that your opponent willbe moving around a lot during the match so doing a timed hit correctly would be difficult (especially geno whirl), so I say let it be better, cause you're gonna have to be really good at it to get it right in a real battle.

 

[Sterowent]

well, consider a lot of character's gimmicks and how they work. let's talk about, say, marth. he hits opponents with the tip of the sword to do more dmg and KB, but this requires very competent spacing to pull off. however, is it the better option to tipper? most of the time? always?

 

[Christian_CAO]

My 2 Cents on this amazing Project and the discussion of Geno's Gimmick mechanic

Please read this, as I'd feel I wasted space on this topic with my rather large reply


The timed hits should just give an increase in knockback, seeing as knockback takes precedence over damage anyday.

The timed hits should be on Geno's staple moves (Geno Whirl, Geno Beam, Geno Blast)

You already have Geno Boost to increase the damage your aerials do.

Perhaps you should make Geno Boost give Geno a damage boost for all his standard non special attacks for a short time (preferably about the same time as sonic's final smash and the wait period of using it again, boost wise not recovery, could be half the time it takes for Wario to get a "Full Tank" )

I can see how that could be abused though. *Imagines people using Geno Boost and timed hits at the same time*

Is there a way to make it so Geno can only use timed hits if he's not using Geno Boost?

Then again, the timed hits affect specials while Geno Boost affects normal attacks. So it might not be necessary to do all that.

This will be very tedious and time consuming, as you'll have to do all of that for every attack that Geno Has and alter each one differently depending on what kind of move it is, but this way you have the option of a power and knockback boost.

The changes in damage via Geno Boost shouldn't be too great though ( a mere 3% increase should be good enough for most standard attacks)

The knock back options for specials via timed hit should have a significant change depending on which special it is.

Hardly any for Geno Blast, 'cause it's got downward trajectory anyway.
Significant but not Knee of Justice Knockback for Geno Beam.
Geno Whirl is the move that should definitely gain the most reward for the timed hit

^It should be Less than Falcon Punch and close to knee

Should kill around 180 since Geno Blast racks up damage quickly

The window for the timed hit should be smaller so it's far more fair. It (the timed hit) should also, if possible, be only usable when the opponent has damage above 150.

Should time the hit exactly when the move hits opponent. Any less and the move doesn't even make them budge.

Please Forgive this post if It seems ignorant. I, in no way, am trying to anger anyone. If this apology angers anyone then please forgive that apology... and this one as well.

 

[Shadic]

You can't do a timer for any character other than Wario, I believe. That makes Geno Boost a bit more difficult.

The problem with Geno Boost in general is that it doesn't work incredibly well with a high-gravity environment. I could do something similar to Lucas' Power Up move that he was given in ProjectM, but that removes another special, and don't really have any special moves to spare.

I just had an idea of turning Geno Blast into his DSmash... I'll have to flesh it out a bit in my mind before I post any ideas. I originally wanted it to behave like Pikachu's Thunder, but I'm thinking something with some smaller, closer-to-Geno explosions could work too. I think it would mostly have the same feel as his current Dsmash.

Eldiran and I also discussed my idea for a new UpB, and I think I may have to revise it a bit to make it more feasible. Unfortunately, that seems to involve taking out the coolest part of the move, but oh well. If we get to the point where we can add in more projectiles, it'll be an awesome thing to add.

But putting Geno Blast on Dsmash would clear room for another special - Likely Geno Boost as a DownB. This could be used to boost the power of his next non-special attack, or something similar.

 

[Christian_CAO]

Your post

Sorry for my double post fail

That's an interesting idea, about the downsmash, If you could give Geno Lucarios finalsmash graphic and have multiple ones come raining down (7 is ideal) in the vicinity of Geno, that could be cool. You could talk to the guy who put Lucarios beam on Lucas if you don't know how to get the graphic.

For a simple new up B, perhaps you'll consider, Though this will require a custom anmation, his rocket punch (on ground) and Puppet string arms (in air) that tether.

Kind of boring since you guys are already giving him something like that for his Z air

so maybe a charging recovery similar to Diddy's that involve Geno rocketing upwads while stars fire downwards and exploding if he Charges it too long.

Just a thought, albeit not a very good one but I'm not claiming to be adequate in the conceptual process of creating moves.

Also, in regards to the Timer conflict, didn't Eldiran give a timer to his Zero PSA for link for his final smash for how long his "hyper mode" lasts? Or am I mistaken, cause I'm sorry if I am wrong

The options that Geno has as a character because of his properties are mixed.

He could be floaty because of "Star magic" or clunky and weak because of his Doll body.

His attacks, while mostly ranged, could be interpreted as strong based on statistics from the game or interpreted as weak based on his body type.

All the work that goes into this makes me feel completely useless being unable to contribute something...

Once again, you guys will do a fantastic job on your interpretation of Geno.

 

[Shadic]

Sorry for my double post fail

That's an interesting idea, about the downsmash, If you could give Geno Lucarios finalsmash graphic and have multiple ones come raining down (7 is ideal) in the vicinity of Geno, that could be cool. You could talk to the guy who put Lucarios beam on Lucas if you don't know how to get the graphic.

Didn't notice a double post. And that Lucario graphic is probably going to go on Geno Beam, actually. But we'll see.

For a simple new up B, perhaps you'll consider, Though this will require a custom anmation, his rocket punch (on ground) and Puppet string arms (in air) that tether.

Many things will require a custom animation. The goal is most of his attacks will be completely unique, for example. Anyways, I really want to plot out and try my idea first, you'll just have to trust me that it's cool.

so maybe a charging recovery similar to Diddy's that involve Geno rocketing upwads while stars fire downwards and exploding if he Charges it too long.

That's actually pretty cool, and could be done pretty similar to how Eldiran did Zero's Dsmash. That may be my next shot if my idea falls through.

Also, in regards to the Timer conflict, didn't Eldiran give a timer to his Zero PSA for link for his final smash for how long his "hyper mode" lasts? Or am I mistaken, cause I'm sorry if I am wrong

Completely forgot about that. I'll have to talk to him about how he did that, or maybe he'll pop into the topic.

The options that Geno has as a character because of his properties are mixed. He could be floaty because of "Star magic" or clunky and weak because of his Doll body. His attacks, while mostly ranged, could be interpreted as strong based on statistics from the game or interpreted as weak based on his body type.

Yeah. That's been an issue. I'd like his recovery to be weak, to replace his lack of defense. The best way I did that for Fighter Geno was to make his second jump quite small, and to make him fall quite fast. Giving him some downtime at the end of his moves could also be seen as "weak defense," but that wouldn't allow him many combo possibilities. I think the best way to go about it would be to make sure his priority is fairly low on most moves, even if his range is decent.

All the work that goes into this makes me feel completely useless being unable to contribute something...
Once again, you guys will do a fantastic job on your interpretation of Geno.

You could always try your hand in animation. Brawlbox isn't terribly complicated, it just takes some time. Thanks for the ideas and encouraging words, though.

 

[Eldiran]

*pops in*

Coincidentally, I posted this over at the Mewtwo thread a few days ago:

You can have a move that charges at all times, actually. It just is a hassle because it requires putting code on almost every subaction.

That code being something like, LA-Float[100] += 1.

And on the special move itself, you'd do something like:
If LA-Float[100] > 200
--do fully charged version.
Else
--do uncharged version.
End If


Note: you may need to tweak how much each subaction increases LA-Float[100], since if you use the way I described above verbatim, the fastest way to charge would likely be crouching and uncrouching repeatedly.

 

[Mowrt620]

Sorry to but in here, but I've got a point of concern...
I can't seem to create a new folder on my SD Card (like the RSBE and private and what not). it just wont let me.
Any help?

 

[Matteron]

Sorry to but in here, but I've got a point of concern...
I can't seem to create a new folder on my SD Card (like the RSBE and private and what not). it just wont let me.
Any help?

That is really off-topic, but try backing up all your files and format the SD card.

 

[Dakaggo]

You can't do a timer for any character other than Wario, I believe. That makes Geno Boost a bit more difficult.

The problem with Geno Boost in general is that it doesn't work incredibly well with a high-gravity environment. I could do something similar to Lucas' Power Up move that he was given in ProjectM, but that removes another special, and don't really have any special moves to spare.

I just had an idea of turning Geno Blast into his DSmash... I'll have to flesh it out a bit in my mind before I post any ideas. I originally wanted it to behave like Pikachu's Thunder, but I'm thinking something with some smaller, closer-to-Geno explosions could work too. I think it would mostly have the same feel as his current Dsmash.

Eldiran and I also discussed my idea for a new UpB, and I think I may have to revise it a bit to make it more feasible. Unfortunately, that seems to involve taking out the coolest part of the move, but oh well. If we get to the point where we can add in more projectiles, it'll be an awesome thing to add.

But putting Geno Blast on Dsmash would clear room for another special - Likely Geno Boost as a DownB. This could be used to boost the power of his next non-special attack, or something similar.

That sounds great. He'll need some sort of cool aura or something for when he's being boosted. With a time limit on being boosted it would give enemies the option of avoiding him for a short time or confronting him. Although obviously he shouldn't be able to use it rapidly. In Vbrawl I'd say he should get a boost down randomly, which I think fits Sakurai's thinking. Although obviously that wouldn't work in any of the hacks. Although... could you make him lighter for a very short time after geno boost wears off?

 

[Necro Toad]

I think you should organize this topic and tell us what to discuss so that we do not waste your time on useless matters! Also because apparently you already have ideas for several of the moves!

 

[Xaranid]

Since i have a feeling no one saw it the first time, here are my moveset suggestions again : P

Jab:
Fighter: Spark - Geno jabs his hand forward quickly, and unleashes a magic flash, capable of sending the opponent back quite a bit.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

I think the jab would be a great place to include the finger gun, a la cosmic geno. Doesnt have to be the same exact thing, but i like the idea of a finger gun jab.

Ftilt:
Fighter: Up Flash - Geno does a quick twirl, unleashing magic capable of sending the opponent up a slight amount. Great for beginning combos, and the angle can be changed by tilting the control stick.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Ehhh, not sure how i feel about magic throughout the moveset. It fits i guess, but id like to see more artillery type attacks. Something that pushes the "armed puppet" motif.

Dtilt:
Fighter: Speedshine - Geno blasts energy behind and in front of him, knocking the opponent away with decent base knockback. However, don't expect this move to kill!
SHOULD BE CLEANED UP.

The move itself is cool, but i agree that it could be cleaned...not sure what else to say on this one.

Utilt:
Fighter: Shine Spin - Geno spins, radiating star power. The move sends the opponent upwards for follow-up attacks.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Not sure on this one...maybe a quick gunshot into the air?

Dash Attack:
Fighter: Quick Trip - Get flips backwards, sliding forward and kicking the opponent. If you only hit with the first kick, the opponent will be sent backwards at a very low trajectory. However, if both hits connect, the opponent pops upward, giving a perfect combo starting attack!
SHOULD BE CLEANED UP. IDEA IS GOOD.

Agreed.

FSmash:
Fighter: 7-Star Strike - Geno hits his opponent seven times with a rapid flurry of stars, sending them flying a good distance away with the last hit.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.


Honestly, i reeaaaally aren't too crazy about this attack. I like Cosmic Geno's star shot mechanic, with a timed shot for extra power.

DSmash:
Fighter: Nova Shell - Geno unleashes a medium-sized burst of energy all around his body. He's invincible durning this for a short time, as well.
COULD BE REPLACED.

I kind of like this attack lol I'm not sure what it has to do with Geno, but it looks kind of cool and i think it alludes to the star spirit thing loosely - shows off his power (as a character)

USmash:
Fighter: Star Burst - Geno focuses energy into the all around him, sucking the opponent upwards, then causes an explosion of stars which blasts opponents straight outwards. It's slow, but very powerful.
SHOULD BE REPLACED?

I heard an idea for this attack i really liked. During the charge, geno's body falls limp. When the A button is released, a small star (a.k.a. the star spirit ?!<3* [or whatever his real name is] flies out and strikes above him. When the attack is done the star flies back into the body and he gets up. this would happen fast of course, not as a huge cinematic thing, and i think it would be cool looking.

Nair:
Cosmic: Orbital Spin - Geno spins his body in the air rapidly, hitting anyone who comes too close.
SHOULD BE KEPT?

I like this one from Cosmic Geno, it gets my vote.

Fair:
Fighter: Geno Rush - Geno boosts forward with star energy, and then hits with a small flash. Works great during recoveries as well.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

This is the Bowyer punch, right? I wasnt too crazy about it at first, but its a cool concept that references the game well. I say polish it and keep it.

Dair:
Fighter: Energy Stomp - Geno stomps downward quickly, sending the opponent flying. Hitting with this attack provides a small upward boost, as well.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

I hate this move :/ A LOT of characters have a downward kick as their Dair. If you can have the foot retract and have a small rocket sort of thing releasing the fire and providing the upward boost i could get behind it more though.

Bair:
Fighter: Geno Kick - Geno gives a two-legged kick behind him, sending the opponent flying! A sweetspotted attack is done in the initial attack, while the orbs of energy at Geno's feet are still there.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Pretty much same as above, a backwards kick is overly done. I like the general idea behind Cosmic's as a multi shot move. IE - quick turn that fires three shots behind him.

Uair:
Fighter: Sky Shot - Geno creates a quick flash above him, sending the opponent straight up. Works great for killing opponents off the top.
SHOULD BE KEPT?

It gets the job done, but if someone has a better idea id vote against it lol

NeutB:
Cosmic: Geno Beam - Geno focuses energy into his Star Gun, charging it into a powerful long-range beam that sends opponents flying back. Charging it three times brings it to maximum power, but waiting any longer causes it to weaken. He can also fire it without charging at all, although this will result in a very small burst. In the air, only the small, uncharged version can be used. Knockback probably needs to adjusted.
SHOULD BE KEPT/FIXED.

Definitely kept - love the move.

SideB:
Fighter: Geno Whirl - Geno tosses a speedy energy disk, dealing damage to opponents. Pressing the A button immediately before the attack connects deals a powerful blow that can KO at around 100% damage, but pressing it too early causes the attack to become exceedingly weak. One of Geno's best killing moves, but it takes some practice to land the critical hit and its long start-up makes it easy to dodge.
SHOULD BE A REAL PROJECTILE.

Honestly i like it as-is lol Youve done a great job so far though, i trust that if you want to change the graphic it can only become more awsome. One of my favorite attacks in the moveset for its timed hit - kill move status.

DownB:
Cosmic: Geno Blast - Geno raises his hands into the air, focusing energy into the sky above him, then sends it streaming down onto any unsuspecting opponents. The attack deals tremendous amounts of damage
(up to over 40% damage at full charge!) and has a wide range, but it has no knockback and a very long start-up and ending lag. It also has a blind spot right next to Geno, leaving him wide open to any opponents who avoid the blast. Like Geno Beam, it can be charged up to three times but weakens if it is not released after the third charge. If Geno uses this in the air, he will hover and fire the energy from his own hands instead. The aerial version is weaker and lasts shorter than the ground version. Also, it cannot be charged, and puts him into free-fall.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

I actually really like this attack. Its kind of OP right now, but i think with some polish it would be great. Real impressive looking move that works off the timed hit well.

UpB:
Cosmic: Geno Boost - Geno rises into the air, radiating energy. He will take no knockback if hit during the first part of the move. After using the move, he will glow with energy, and any aerial attacks he uses while falling will be more powerful than usual. Unlike most recovery moves, Geno retains his second jump after using Geno Boost. He can also use the ability again while falling in order to slow his descent or to defend against attacks.
HAVE COMPLICATED IDEAS, MUST DISCUSS WITH ELDIRAN.

Love it as well, and love that it powers up aerials. Between you and Eldiran it can only become greater.

FThrow:
Fighter: Cosmic Toss - Geno flips the opponent around and throws them with his magic. A fairly powerful throw.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

How about a move where he holds the opponent in front of him and fires a blast that sends them flying?

DThrow:
Fighter: Energy Blast - Geno stands on top of the opponent, blasting them with tons of magical power.
SHOULD BE CLEANED UP.

I like it, but it reminds me a lot of Lucas's throw....obviously lol I think a more original thing would suit him better.

BThrow:
Fighter: Geno Fling - Geno spins the opponent around, holding them above him with magical energy. He then throws them backward, in a move able to KO those who are high on damage.
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Same as the above.

UThrow:
Fighter: Star Hurl - Geno throws the opponent up into the stars!
SHOULD BE REPLACED.

Ehhh, pretty much the same as the above, except that I think his Uthrow should be his strongest throw, since it sends them "skywards"

Overall, i like the moveset alot, but i feel it could use some more of the Timed Hit feature to really give him an original feel and make him truly shine.