Princess Daisy for SSBB

[Chief Mendez]

Daisy being version two of Peach isn't true, they are not even from the same place or proven to be related. Sure they play similar roles but thats it. Thats just like saying Luigi=Mario.

Well, let's see...there are 2 (count em') games based off of the differences between the Mario Bros., Luigi has his own full-fledged mystery/action game, and in several other places, Luigi is explored in contrast to Mario.

Look, this is the MARIO SERIES, not Final Fantasy. Debates over who has the richer character or whose personality is differential don't really work all that well. But that's not the point.

What is is this: Daisy never does jack****. Do you have any nostalgic moments of cool things Daisy did in a game? I can remember Luigi being denounced by his biggest fan, I can remember Wario beating the snot out of endless baddies in the pursuit of wealth, I fondly remember stomping that first Goomba in World 1-1...but I can't think of any notable Daisy-moments. That's why she won't be anything but a fan-serving costume change.

 

[Tiamat]

Do you have any nostalgic moments of cool things Daisy did in a game?

"Hi, I'm Daisy!"

"Hi, I'm Daisy!"

"Hi, I'm Daisy!" "Hi, I'm Daisy!"

"Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!"

"Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!"

 

[Chief Mendez]

"Hi, I'm Daisy!"

"Hi, I'm Daisy!"

"Hi, I'm Daisy!" "Hi, I'm Daisy!"

"Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!"

"Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!"

I rest my case.

 

[Deleted member]

How many games is Daisy in? Mario Parties and some of the first Mario games?

 

[Chief Mendez]

How many games is Daisy in? Mario Parties and some of the first Mario games?

Check the first post. If it's not there...well, someone hasn't done made a good thread.

But I'm 99.9999999999% sure she's 'technically' in Super Mario Land, and then the Camelot/Hudson Mario games.

 

[Deleted member]

In Super Mario Land did they even name her?

 

[Chief Mendez]

In Super Mario Land did they even name her?

See, that's why I say "technically". At the end of each level, there's a line or two of text that tells the player that it is, indeed, Daisy Mario's rescuing. But beyond that, she might as well not even be there.

 

[Deleted member]

I can't remember anything about Daisy except that time you find her and it's actually a flying thing.

 

[Tiamat]

She was in the instruction booklet to Super Mario Land, too. Ironically, her design there was closer to the latest version of Daisy than it was to the Tanned Peach version that came out first.

Her next appearance was in Mario Golf for the NES as Luigi's caddy. She looked exactly the same as Peach in that game but once again in the instruction booklet art was differentiated.

...games didn't have as much graphical muscle back then.

Her next appearance was as a Super Mario World Peach pallete swap to help Luigi out in Mario is Missing.

These are just the appearances that precede the party and sports games. So she technically wasn't really 'forgotten' until those games came along so much as just sparse in terms of appearances.

Technically.

 

[krlos F.]

"Hi, I'm Daisy!"

"Hi, I'm Daisy!"

"Hi, I'm Daisy!" "Hi, I'm Daisy!"

"Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!"

"Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!""Hi, I'm Daisy!"

JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAJAJAJAJ
JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
omg!!!! jesus christ! u're so mean... looooooooooool

 

[Daisy101]

DAISY! DAISY! DAISY! DAISY! Yeah a Daisy Thread thx god.. ^^ Hi am Daisy-Fan Hi Am Daisy-Fan. Okay now let stop this hehe. Soo you guys are Fan yes Good now let start this. 1 st Daisy can go to SSBB why? Daisy is a Tomboy.
2 Daisy go to some Mario game like Strikers charged Mkds Hoops 3 on 3 and mp6 7 8 soo why peach can go to ssbb and not Daisy Huh sry.


And sry am no good to talk english hehe ^^

and is got some player play will me on tetris ds mkds or mph on wi-fi. My nickname is Daisy-Fan

 

[rm88]

1 st Daisy can go to SSBB why? Daisy is a Tomboy.

So what? Peach is not a tomboy and she's in Melee. I don't see your logic.

2 Daisy go to some Mario game like Strikers charged Mkds Hoops 3 on 3 and mp6 7 8 soo why peach can go to ssbb and not Daisy Huh sry.

So Waluigi, Birdo, Petey Piranha, Wiggler, Boo, Shy Guy, Dry Bones, Toadette, etc. should be in Brawl too, right? Stop saying Daisy could be in because Peach is in, they are physically similar but Peach is way more important than Daisy.

 

[Daisy101]

Your story. If Daisy go to SSbb you be sry dude ^^

 

[rm88]

I don't think I'll be sorry.

 

[Daisy101]

I say yes ^^

 

[Deleted member]

Daisy isn't important at all. For example, Peach is in the new Super Paper Mario game and Daisy isn't even mentioned.

 

[rm88]

^^^ That's what I mean. Peach is THE Mario Princess, Daisy is just "Peach's friend, who happens to like sports". Also, there's no way I'd be sorry, Daisy101, since I don't hate the idea of Daisy being in Brawl, I just don't see it happening.

 

[afroman2324]

What would be the point of putting Daisy in Brawl? She's just a wannabe Peach clone. She would have a clone moveset, or almost identicle to Peach's, and the makers of Brawl are making it so that there are no clones, so that means Daisy isn't going to be on Brawl. I also agree with all of the other non-Daisy fans ideas.

 

[Daisy101]

Hooo i try. But a think you right this is soo sad hooo. Am so sorry guys.

 

[El HP]

Hooo i try. But a think you right this is soo sad hooo. Am so sorry guys.

At least there is a possibility of Daisy as an alternate costume for Peach.

 

[Tiamat]

the makers of Brawl are making it so that there are no clones,.

They never said that. Stop spreading that rumour, please.

 

[MikeKirby]

Everyone seems to be giving the same arguements over and over again. Neither side seems to be budging on their position. Some "nay" sayers are just being biased because they just don't like her as a character or who she is and don't want to see her in Brawl. Oh well...

I for one think that she could or should be in Brawl. The opposers just look at her at a broad perspective as a "wannabe" Peach or something. If you look at her more specific she is her own character and different. I won't post the differences and everything because each arguement has been said every 5 pages or so and overused for both "yay" and "nay" sayers.

 

[Saimdusan]

I don't really care. She's kinda cool, but there are better Mario characters that are important in the normal games (Kamek, Paper Mario, Toad, Bowser Jr.).

 

[Daisy101]

Everyone seems to be giving the same arguements over and over again. Neither side seems to be budging on their position. Some "nay" sayers are just being biased because they just don't like her as a character or who she is and don't want to see her in Brawl. Oh well...

I for one think that she could or should be in Brawl. The opposers just look at her at a broad perspective as a "wannabe" Peach or something. If you look at her more specific she is her own character and different. I won't post the differences and everything because each arguement has been said every 5 pages or so and overused for both "yay" and "nay" sayers.

So! Daisy got one Chance right.

 

[Tiamat]

I don't really care. She's kinda cool, but there are better Mario characters that are important in the normal games (Kamek, Paper Mario, Toad, Bowser Jr.).

...I'd rather have Daisy than Paper Mario, at least.

 

[Chief Mendez]

If you look at her more specific she is her own character and different.

Well no duh. Specifically, Waddle Dee's his own character and different from Kirby, but they're so alike, and he brings nothing new to the table.

That's the problem I have with Daisy. She's just not worth the effort it'd take to make a whole original moveset. Cloneage is imminent.

 

[Charzendat]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO. She would be useless. Shes just Peach but with nothing intresting. Maybe if they make Daisy a costume again (although one that looks more like Daisy), but change the sound effects too to match.

 

[angelsandairwaveslee]

mario is like wario except mario sucks but they put mario in so they may do the same with daisy

 

[Chief Mendez]

mario sucks

...Wait, what?

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Yeah, that made little sense to me too. And they put Mario in because he's the mascot of Nintendo, how is that similar to Daisy's situation?

 

[MikeKirby]

Well no duh. Specifically, Waddle Dee's his own character and different from Kirby, but they're so alike, and he brings nothing new to the table.

Oh, man did you just compare Kirby to Waddle Dee? I really want to stay on topic but they are two different characters. Even in a broad sense. Waddle Dee is a different color, no abilities whatsoever, and he isnt even round like Kirby. Though, I am not saying to add him to Brawl. That would be weird O.o

 

[McFox]

Hey everybody, haven't visited this topic in a while. Just wanted to let everyone know that Daisy is still a terrible idea, and shouldn't be considered for this game, ever.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Oh, man did you just compare Kirby to Waddle Dee? I really want to stay on topic but they are two different characters. Even in a broad sense. Waddle Dee is a different color, no abilities whatsoever, and he isnt even round like Kirby. Though, I am not saying to add him to Brawl. That would be weird O.o

Well, you see, most of the arguments for Daisy revolve around how she is different from Peach in every sense but gameplay. Only Black/Light suggested a method of making Daisy original, and even that wasn't that great of an idea (she being a Mario Sports rep).

Everyone seems too focused on how "Daisy's a tomboy", or "Daisy comes from a different Kingdom", or the best reason EVAR: "the two princesses have different head shapes, and so a costume change wouldn't work. THEREFORE DAISY MUST BE HER OWN CHARACTER! DUR DUR DUR, HAT GO ON FOOT!" That's slightly paraphrased.

So yeah, saying one character who's very similar visually, and less important to the series, than a character who's already in the game should get in based on her "personality" or some such nonsense (this is the MARIO SERIES, people!), is along the lines of what a Waddle Dee supporter might post.

Daisy is a different color, no original abilities whatsoever, and she doesn't even have a rounded a head as Peach. Fits, doesn't it?

 

[Mr.Talk]

well that whole arguement is dumb from the start. Let me list some of the bull**** you guys have been saying and my reply to them.

1. Daisy is a clone so she should be an alt for peach.

me: First off since daisy is a princess of a different kingdom with a good difference of appearence to tell the two apart I don't see how that is worth anyones times discussing over and over. Also if she was a clone (based on looks) it still doesn't mean much since CLONES WERE NOT EXCLUDED. and it's pretty easy to have a different moveset since peach would most likely = super princess peach and daisy would = spinoffs. So there is pretty much nothing holding her back in that area.

2. She isn't well known.

me: Well if you have a bunch of fans here trying to support her and a bunch of people trying to say she has no f****** chance because she isn't well known. Guess what Pretty much everyone argueing here KNOWS DAISY so stfu already.

3. She is not popular.

me: not that this topic shows much importance but she is widely liked in japan because THEY LOVE FILLERS. This is from the same source as blacklight because we were at the same site at the time. Oh yeah and to the dude that keeps saying "wheres super princess daisy?" NEWS FLASH that game (SPP just in case you didn't know) was made in the U.S.A too. so both japanese people and americans played the f****** game. Tingles game was japan only but thats off topic.

4. She isn't important enough.

me: That comment fails within itself since you not sakurai and you don't know much about what he considers important and you don't know what will spark his interest since the roster of melee was pretty different from what many would consider important or popular. Daisy has already done enough in importance to become a costume in melee so now that she has different looks to compliment being her own character then I say she should be as good as in.

OH a question to the people who keep saying alt costume. Did they ever make a alt for a different character so different from the original that it looked like another character? In peach's case short hair, different voice,different attacks,etc. Personality does count since they are both princess and where dresses to show that they are princesses.

 

[Mr.Talk]

****! Nobody knows Geno.

But what do they know! The only person who needs to know of his existence and have a glint of popularity with him is Sakurai.

Hmm...that brings up a question...has Sakurai ever gone on record and said anything about Daisy?

ugh this gets me so annoyed. They have a trophy on her in melee if you don't mind looking that up in the game itself

 

[Chief Mendez]

1. Daisy is a clone so she should be an alt for peach.

me: First off since daisy is a princess of a different kingdom with a good difference of appearence to tell the two apart I don't see how that is worth anyones times discussing over and over. Also if she was a clone (based on looks) it still doesn't mean much since CLONES WERE NOT EXCLUDED. and it's pretty easy to have a different moveset since peach would most likely = super princess peach and daisy would = spinoffs. So there is pretty much nothing holding her back in that area.

This is just what I was talking about with my Waddle Dee comparison. Yes...you can tell them apart, any idiot can. But that has no bearing on this. Again, Waddle Dee and Kirby are easy enough to tell apart, but why would you include Waddle when he brings nothing of worth to the table? Okay, I shouldn't say "nothing", since any given character could be made original with a little imagination. But hopefully you get what I'm trying to say. If Daisy gets an original moveset, then that's one less Mach Rider, Geno, Sonic, Megaman, Olimar, Ike, Wolf, Dark Samus, Bowser Jr., Takamaru, Dedede, Samurai Goroh, Krystal, WW Link, Ray 01, or Balloon Fighter that gets in. In short: appearances mean ****. Especially with such similar characters, so stfu already.

2. She isn't well known.

me: Well if you have a bunch of fans here trying to support her and a bunch of people trying to say she has no f****** chance because she isn't well known. Guess what Pretty much everyone argueing here KNOWS DAISY so stfu already.

I think it's reasonable that a couple hundred Nintendo nerds know who Daisy is. It's not, however, reasonable to say that the majority of Melee players know who Daisy is. So stfu already.

3. She is not popular.

me: not that this topic shows much importance but she is widely liked in japan because THEY LOVE FILLERS. This is from the same source as blacklight because we were at the same site at the time. Oh yeah and to the dude that keeps saying "wheres super princess daisy?" NEWS FLASH that game (SPP just in case you didn't know) was made in the U.S.A too. so both japanese people and americans played the f****** game. Tingles game was japan only but thats off topic.

If you can supply some sort of, I don't know...factual evidence, i.e. a link to this "JAPAN LIKES MINOR SUPPORTING CHARACTERS, I KNOW BECAUSE IT ARE FACT" thing, then we'll talk. Until then, stfu.

4. She isn't important enough.

me: That comment fails within itself since you not sakurai and you don't know much about what he considers important and you don't know what will spark his interest since the roster of melee was pretty different from what many would consider important or popular. Daisy has already done enough in importance to become a costume in melee so now that she has different looks to compliment being her own character then I say she should be as good as in.

What do you mean by "different looks"?

OH a question to the people who keep saying alt costume. Did they ever make a alt for a different character so different from the original that it looked like another character? In peach's case short hair, different voice,different attacks,etc. Personality does count since they are both princess and where dresses to show that they are princesses.

Dresses? Where? Where dresses?

 

[Mr.Talk]

This is just what I was talking about with my Waddle Dee comparison. Yes...you can tell them apart, any idiot can. But that has no bearing on this. Again, Waddle Dee and Kirby are easy enough to tell apart, but why would you include Waddle when he brings nothing of worth to the table? Okay, I shouldn't say "nothing", since any given character could be made original with a little imagination. But hopefully you get what I'm trying to say. If Daisy gets an original moveset, then that's one less Mach Rider, Geno, Sonic, Megaman, Olimar, Ike, Wolf, Dark Samus, Bowser Jr., Takamaru, Dedede, Samurai Goroh, Krystal, WW Link, Ray 01, or Balloon Fighter that gets in. In short: appearances mean ****. Especially with such similar characters, so stfu already.

I think it's reasonable that a couple hundred Nintendo nerds know who Daisy is. It's not, however, reasonable to say that the majority of Melee players know who Daisy is. So stfu already.

If you can supply some sort of, I don't know...factual evidence, i.e. a link to this "JAPAN LIKES MINOR SUPPORTING CHARACTERS, I KNOW BECAUSE IT ARE FACT" thing, then we'll talk. Until then, stfu.

What do you mean by "different looks"?

Dresses? Where? Where dresses?

1. For the clones part I was only talking about the people using the excuse "SHES A CLONE" for her not being able to get in if you read it correctly. Whats with this little waddle dee. Last time I checked he is not daisy or from her franchise for that matter so it really doesn't mean crap in this arguement. As long as sakurai can make her a uniqe character then thats all that matters in this particular arguement so stfu already

2. It is reasonable that the majority knows who she is if people keep saying she is not well like (in this thread not everywhere)and the fact that there is a trophy of her in melee for the world to see. She is also a regular in the mario spinoffs which means that the number who buys spinoffs will more than likely be the number who knows daisy. This'll be a copy and paste from one of my past writings but it should get the point out

http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-best-selling-computer-and-video-games

"Now if you click there you'll see a list of sale statistics on a whole bunch of different games. If you read the top you'll see that the sales are lower then what they actually are so they aren't precise but notable. Also sales are sometimes limited to certain countries.

Ok now if you scroll down to the top 20 best selling games of all time you'll see super mario kart for the snes selling at 8 million and it was one of the first spinoffs on nintendo in my knowledge. Now go down to nintendo and find the N64 and you'll see mario party 1-3 all selling over 1 million in the U.S and mariparty two selling over 1 million in japan. You'll see mario tennis there too selling over 1 million in japan.

Moving down to the gamecube section you'll see mario party four selling 1 million in U.S only and MKDD selling over 2 million in the US. On the game boy you'll see dr. Mario selling over two million in japan. Moving down to the Gba you'll see mario cart super circuit selling over 2 million in U.S only. Then finnaly on the Nintendo DS you'll find Mario kart DS selling over four million."

Now that you see the numbers who know of daisy (which are probably more than said in the link) I can say she is pretty well known around here. Even if she isn't known like you said it wouldn't mean much since not well known characters will more than ikely be in there anyway.

3. You can't go to a japanese sight and copy and paste pieces of tex and other things because it's illegal (don't know the whole story but it involves legal issues so thats the basics.) so I really don't care how you take it because I'm going with how I take the info so stfu

4. idiotic post (by you) nuff said

 

[Chief Mendez]

1. For the clones part I was only talking about the people using the excuse "SHES A CLONE" for her not being able to get in if you read it correctly. Whats with this little waddle dee. Last time I checked he is not daisy or from her franchise for that matter so it really doesn't mean crap in this arguement. As long as sakurai can make her a uniqe character then thats all that matters in this particular arguement so stfu already

Maybe you should find out who Waddle Dee is before you say the comparison's irrelevant. There's this little-known site called...oh what was it now...Pikipedia? No...Mikipedia? Almost...ah, right: Wikipedia.

Mario spin-offs sell well

Cropped for size. I get what you're saying, anyway. But you know, I think I can just fall back on a staple of the ant-Daisy warrior: she was made as a filler in the spin-offs.

She was in the GB Mario, then when Yokoi died, no one saw a need to use some random character made up so Mario's handheld adventures wouldbe different from his console outings in more than music and backdrops. But then, along comes Mario Party, and everyone has a readily available partner...er, except Peach. So, they whip up a new outfit, call it "Daisy", and roll.

I'd be surprised if half of the purchasers Mario Party could tell you who Daisy is off the top of their heads. Even moreso if they could tell you why she's so amazingly different from Princess Toadstool.

3. You can't go to a japanese sight and copy and paste pieces of tex and other things because it's illegal (don't know the whole story but it involves legal issues so thats the basics.) so I really don't care how you take it because I'm going with how I take the info so stfu

And by that you mean: "this is a lazy excuse because this information was made up".

There're no laws on internet concerning publically accesible web forums and copying of the posts written therein.

4. idiotic post (by you) nuff said

I'm glad you got (the joke).

 

[Mr.Talk]

Maybe you should find out who Waddle Dee is before you say the comparison's irrelevant. There's this little-known site called...oh what was it now...Pikipedia? No...Mikipedia? Almost...ah, right: Wikipedia.

Cropped for size. I get what you're saying, anyway. But you know, I think I can just fall back on a staple of the ant-Daisy warrior: she was made as a filler in the spin-offs.

She was in the GB Mario, then when Yokoi died, no one saw a need to use some random character made up so Mario's handheld adventures wouldbe different from his console outings in more than music and backdrops. But then, along comes Mario Party, and everyone has a readily available partner...er, except Peach. So, they whip up a new outfit, call it "Daisy", and roll.

I'd be surprised if half of the purchasers Mario Party could tell you who Daisy is off the top of their heads. Even moreso if they could tell you why she's so amazingly different from Princess Toadstool.

And by that you mean: "this is a lazy excuse because this information was made up".

There're no laws on internet concerning publically accesible web forums and copying of the posts written therein.

I'm glad you got (the joke).

1. I'm guessing that your still using the same excuse as last time since you keep saying the same things so I guess you don't have anything worth saying but some wiki site for whatever your comparision is.

2.Can you provide proof for anything your saying (meaning that the majority and nintendo people says these things) because again your just saying the same things over and over now with guessing on the side.

3. It's no excuse since I said I don't care how you take the info meaning "YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ME FOR ME TO CARE". I already told you my source which was a person said to lived in japan, but then again you have no proof proving your side either so it doesn't matter. OH about the law thing, I already said I don't know the full story so why you are still talking about it is a mystery

4. couldn't tell since the whole arguement most of what your saying is the same thing

I already wrote too much as it is so I'm gonna leave tonight or stop posting till the next day

 

[Chief Mendez]

Clearly my ravishingly complex writing isn't working here, so I'll keep things simple this time.

1. I'm guessing that your still using the same excuse as last time since you keep saying the same things so I guess you don't have anything worth saying but some wiki site for whatever your comparision is.

Go to Wikipedia, search for "Waddle Dee", read up on him, then re-read my comparison about him.

2.Can you provide proof for anything your saying (meaning that the majority and nintendo people says these things) because again your just saying the same things over and over now with guessing on the side.

"Yes, I'd like the caesar salad, with a small cup of guessing on the side. Thank you."

That was a joke. No, I can't prove what I said last time, but you can't prove that those people know who Daisy is, just that they bought a game that included Daisy. However I still believe that those people, even if they did remember Daisy, would think you're crazy for saying she's as different from Peach as you make her out to be.

3. It's no excuse since I said I don't care how you take the info meaning "YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ME FOR ME TO CARE". I already told you my source which was a person said to lived in japan, but then again you have no proof proving your side either so it doesn't matter. OH about the law thing, I already said I don't know the full story so why you are still talking about it is a mystery

Well, if you don't care about providing proof, then stop trying to use this nebulous (darn, there goes that vocabulary again!) argument about what the Japanese (as if they're all one entity that communicates via a Hive Mind structure) like. Sales numbers are good arguments. Polls are good arguments.

Saying "I have a source in Japan", with no proof is not a good argument.

4. couldn't tell since the whole arguement most of what your saying is the same thing

Riiiight. I guess I was spot-on about tricky grammar and you.