Pretty in pink or true in blue, Krystal for Sm4sh!

[Deleted member]

WAAAAAA-

I want this.

 

[N3ON]

Mo, Mii is not.
. Unfortunately, Miis are vastly unpopular, and nintendo is trying to get them in as many games as possible.

Miis aren't vastly unpopular. If they were vastly unpopular they would've been dropped by Nintendo a long time ago. If they were vastly unpopular they wouldn't have been included on both the 3DS and the Wii U. If they were vastly unpopular Nintendo wouldn't still have high-profile, highly-marketed and publicized games starring the Miis. Nintendo puts them in games because they sell. Third parties pay to use them in their games because they sell.

Sure, the "hardcore" isn't that fond of them, but it's quite obvious Sakurai doesn't gear Smash games solely towards the hardcore. They have popularity with the casual, and they are important to Nintendo. They are at least in the top 7 most deserving characters. It just comes down to Sakurai's opinion of their fighting potential.

Miis in smash will no doubt make it a little bit less popular, for the online modes you will just always have miis and it will get incredibly frustrating.

This is so contradictory it's incredible. If they made the game less popular (which they wouldn't - the casual market is huge), why would they frequent the online? If they weren't a popular choice or popular character, they would be used less online. Them showing up in abundance online would only prove their popularity.

Plus sure some people might want to sure play as themselves and some will choose to main the Mii for whatever reason, but eventually most will probably shift to characters they play best as or enjoy the most, which would probably cause the Mii to on average be played no more than other characters.

Mii, in it's simplest form, is Nintendo's attempt at copying Microsoft's idea for an avatar.

 

[Ove]

I can see why people hate the Miis. They are (most times) boring characters and, sadly, make the games more generic.

Personally, I like the idea with Miis. They are good as icons, if you want to distinguish your save slots from other family members. The problem with Miis are their simplicity; if we had more liberty when creating our Miis, they would have been even more personal.

I mostly see ugly attempts at doing yourself as a Mii. But when I play MSC, or scroll the Mii Plaza, I have seen some really creative pieces that seperate from the bunch. I'd like to have more hats to choose from though.

However, I'd rather go with game characters before Miis. For instance, I have Luigi as a save icon on Mario Galaxy instead of my Mii. I'd also rather see a Nintendo character being included in Smash before a Mii.

And Krystal, of course.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Hang on a second, Mii is no longer a Nintendo character?

 

[Ove]

Hang on a second, Mii is no longer a Nintendo character?

Hah, you got me there. What I meant was a Nintendo character from an actual game, not a Nintendo avatar. Also, I wouldn't consider my Mii (Ove) being a Nintendo character, would you?

But yes, you are right that the concept of Mii is from Nintendo and therefore could be included in Smash. I'd rather see a character that Nintendo has developed, not a character that I have made though.

I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[jigglover]

Miis aren't vastly unpopular. If they were vastly unpopular they would've been dropped by Nintendo a long time ago. If they were vastly unpopular they wouldn't have been included on both the 3DS and the Wii U. If they were vastly unpopular Nintendo wouldn't still have high-profile, highly-marketed and publicized games starring the Miis. Nintendo puts them in games because they sell. Third parties pay to use them in their games because they sell.

Sure, the "hardcore" isn't that fond of them, but it's quite obvious Sakurai doesn't gear Smash games solely towards the hardcore. They have popularity with the casual, and they are important to Nintendo. They are at least in the top 7 most deserving characters. It just comes down to Sakurai's opinion of their fighting potential.



This is so contradictory it's incredible. If they made the game less popular (which they wouldn't - the casual market is huge), why would they frequent the online? If they weren't a popular choice or popular character, they would be used less online. Them showing up in abundance online would only prove their popularity.

Plus sure some people might want to sure play as themselves and some will choose to main the Mii for whatever reason, but eventually most will probably shift to characters they play best as or enjoy the most, which would probably cause the Mii to on average be played no more than other characters.

Actually, for the most part I am a casual gamer, being 'hardcore' (how I hate that word) in Pokemon and smash only.
This applies to all of my friends.
All of my friends, including me, hate Miis drastically, as do most of my friend's friends. If you ask me, Miis are actually more popular among the 'hardcore' (how I hate that word) gamers than the casual ones. By always being on the internet, I meant as a troll character. Also, there will be the inevitable people who make a mii with a **** on his face and look like an arse. That is what I meant.

 

[N3ON]

Actually, for the most part I am a casual gamer, being 'hardcore' (how I hate that word) in Pokemon and smash only.
This applies to all of my friends.
All of my friends, including me, hate Miis drastically, as do most of my friend's friends. If you ask me, Miis are actually more popular among the 'hardcore' (how I hate that word) gamers than the casual ones. By always being on the internet, I meant as a troll character. Also, there will be the inevitable people who make a mii with a **** on his face and look like an arse. That is what I meant.

As opinionated as you and your friends might be, that isn't a large enough sample size to negate the fact that Mii-oriented games sell very well and keep showing up, indicating large popularity with the Wii's main demographic (the ultra casual gamer).

Also, I very much doubt Miis are more popular with the hardcore than the casual, as pretty much the vast majority of "hardcore" gamers think either indifferently or unfavorably about the Miis, and for the most part Mii games aren't generally directed at the more hardcore audience. If you have something that proves otherwise though, I'd love to see it.

Personally I could care less if Miis are playable, but there's very little argument against Miis being deserving. They are the third best selling Nintendo series (which is very impressive considering the series is six years old), have played an important part in the current and future generations, and do have both potential and an audience.

And yeah, there might be Miis with ****s on their faces, but that's not really new, plus it already happened in Mario Kart, and at this point I'm not sure how many people that regularly play games online will be affected by it. However, with the apparent tight monitoring and moderating of the Miiverse, perhaps some form of censorship will be brought along with it to the Miis themselves. Just speculation though.

However, this is the Krystal thread, so if you want to continue discussing this, we should probably take it to the Mii thread.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't really consider it to be impressive, considering that most of those sales are attributed to Wii Sports being bundled with the Wii itself.

But that's for the Mii thread.

 

[The Real Gamer]

*Krystal supporter bump*

In my dream Smash game I'd have her look something like this:

But instead of the gun I'd rather have her utilize her staff:

She definitely has the potential to be a unique character, but I think she's going to get some heavy competition from Palutena since she is also a female character who wields a staff and uses magic.

Or Sakurai might include both but have Krystal use a gun instead. But my biggest fear in that scenario would have her being too much like the rest of the space animals.

Thoughts?

 

[3Bismyname]

I think a lot of people are just generally over the idea of Krystal right now. you know, theyre believing that 3 Starfox characters is enough right now especially considering its been so long since theyve even had a game that wasnt a rerelease. but yes if she got in it would be better if she used the staff.

 

[Frostwraith]

honestly, I don't think that Krystal will make it. sure, she would be unique with her staff and such... but, I'm not expecting her. I think Star Fox has enough characters already.

could be wrong, though.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I personally think Palutena's new-found popularity is what will end up ruining her chances more than anything. Makes no sense to include 2 staff wielding/magic using females.

But regardless she's still a top 3 most requested female and has a decent shot at this point.

 

[FlareHabanero]

At decent shot of being ridiculed by the general public for being a very stupid and pointless character?

 

[The Real Gamer]

At decent shot of being ridiculed by the general public for being a very stupid and pointless character?

Your post totally convinced me that Krystal has no shot in Smash 4 anymore.

Please tell more.

 

[Deleted member]

@The Real Gamer: I don't think Krystal's appearance will influence what weapon she gets. If she gets in with her Assault outfit, that won't have any bearing whenever or not the staff will be used.

I hope for the Assault outfit as well. Not a fan of the very scantily-clad Adventure outfit.

 

[Big-Cat]

Makes no sense to include 2 staff wielding/magic using females.

Except the weapon of choice does not determine how they'll use it.

 

[The Real Gamer]

^ This much is true.

 

[Gene]

At decent shot of being ridiculed by the general public for being a very stupid and pointless character?

Pretty much this.

I think 3 maybe enough for SF reps. But seriously, why her over other, more important Star Fox characters?

 

[FlareHabanero]

People want Krystal because of that staff she hardly uses to begin with.

Also because being a female means something apparently.

 

[Deleted member]

People want Krystal because of that staff she hardly uses to begin with.

Also because being a female means something apparently.

I don't think wanting a character partially because they're female is too crazy of a reason. Females can offer a different style of fighting so females could be added to have more of a diversity in fighting styles.

Of course this means nothing for her chances, but to some people, there's more to wanting more females than just affirmative actions.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Females offer a different style of fighting? That doesn't really make any form of sense. How does having a vagina automatically make a unique style of fighting?

 

[Aipom]

I don't know if StarFox should get 4 characters. I feel if she does get in, it could be risky for Falco or Wolf (in my opinion Falco). However, Falco has the best moveset and handling out of the 3 for me plus him being in since Melee, so there's a decent chance he'll be fine

 

[Mr Toast]

This is very likely in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

Females offer a different style of fighting? That doesn't really make any form of sense. How does having a vagina automatically make a unique style of fighting?

Because females have a different body structure than men and as such, have to used different methods of fighting.

The reason why females are of a relatively high proportion in fighting games (Smash Bros. being the exception) is because they can introduce different fighting styles to the game. Again, I am not saying being female automatically makes you a better choice or have a better shot at Smash Bros. since Smash plays by different rules, but it does allow for a different style of play.

Could you honestly see Zero Suit Samus playing the same if ZSS was male? I sure can't.

I don't know if StarFox should get 4 characters. I feel if she does get in, it could be risky for Falco or Wolf (in my opinion Falco). However, Falco has the best moveset and handling out of the 3 for me plus him being in since Melee, so there's a decent chance he'll be fine

Well if we get only three characters, they'll keep the ones we have since they already outclass Krystal in popularity. The only way Krystal gets in is if Star Fox gets a fourth spot.

 

[Gene]

Because females have a different body structure than men and as such, have to used different methods of fighting.

The reason why females are of a relatively high proportion in fighting games (Smash Bros. being the exception) is because they can introduce different fighting styles to the game. Again, I am not saying being female automatically makes you a better choice or have a better shot at Smash Bros. since Smash plays by different rules, but it does allow for a different style of play.

Could you honestly see Zero Suit Samus playing the same if ZSS was male? I sure can't.

This logic is has to be the biggest piece of bull**** I've ever heard. So what do you have to say about ice climbers?


Also people misinterpret Krystal's importance WAY too much.

 

[Deleted member]

This logic is has to be the biggest piece of bull**** I've ever heard. So what do you have to say about ice climbers?


Also people misinterpret Krystal's importance WAY too much.

Well if we look at this:

Melee

One of the plans for Melee was to use a character who would represent NES games in general. Sakurai revealed a list of characters who had been considered (we don’t really know if it was all of them or not, though) along with reasons they had been dumped (some of the reasons were joking, some really weren’t). The rejected choices were:

-Balloon Fighter (“if his balloons were popped, he couldn’t do anything”)
-Urban Champion (“there’s not much you could do with him”)
-Bubbles (from Clu Clu Land) (“she (?) doesn’t really know how to fight”)
-Excitebike (“you’d have to install ramps on all the levels for him to be playable”)

The character that was actually chosen for this position was, of course, the Ice Climbers. Interesting that Pit apparently wasn’t in that list.

Chances are good that Ice Climbers uniqueness contributed to their inclusion. The reason why Ice Climbers are a very popular character in Smash is mainly because of their unique mechanics.

 

[Big-Cat]

This logic is has to be the biggest piece of bull**** I've ever heard. So what do you have to say about ice climbers?

Different genders doesn't mean they can't fight the same. After all, Eddy and Christie fight exactly the same (I don't know why it's still like this though). It's just that the different body structures allow different strengths. Girls have proportionally longer, stronger, and more flexable legs than the guys who have larger upper bodys and less flexibility, proportionally speaking. Of course, despite this, you may have characters that go against gender conventions. Like, you have Fox who uses almost entirely kicks then you have the Vanessa from KOF who is a boxer.

Also, when taking in character into account, the personality of the character will play a role in how they fight, just like Ryu and Ken. With girls and guys thinking differently, that's another factor that comes into play that will differentiate how they fight.

And yes, this applies to real life as well.

 

[Gene]

Different genders doesn't mean they can't fight the same. After all, Eddy and Christie fight exactly the same (I don't know why it's still like this though). It's just that the different body structures allow different strengths. Girls have proportionally longer, stronger, and more flexable legs than the guys who have larger upper bodys and less flexibility, proportionally speaking. Of course, despite this, you may have characters that go against gender conventions. Like, you have Fox who uses almost entirely kicks then you have the Vanessa from KOF who is a boxer.

Also, when taking in character into account, the personality of the character will play a role in how they fight, just like Ryu and Ken. With girls and guys thinking differently, that's another factor that comes into play that will differentiate how they fight.

And yes, this applies to real life as well.

Wait, are you arguing against my last post or helping it? I ask because your first sentence is the reason why I brought up Ice Climbers before. They are both different genders that fight exactly the same. By SMBF's logic Nana wouldn't fight like Popo because she's a girl and would fight differently if she were a male. And what you said about male and female's thinking differently will determine how they fight, I can agree to a certain extent but it pretty much helps what SMBF said about Samus couldn't fight the same if she were a man, which I disagree because we have normal Samus that has a masculine like move set that doesn't portray gender whatsoever, and Sheik (Yes Sheik is a woman, but it's Zelda's disguise to make you think she's a man, and her body language shows it).

The thing is, gender shouldn't even play a part on how a character plays in a fighting game or any game for that matter. Sakurai could, or anyone make up a female character that plays like Bo Rai Cho from Mortal Kombat (fart moves and all) or Blanka from Street Fighter with opposite physical proportions of those two characters, and it'll work. You know why? It's not real life.


To stay on track with Krystal. She and Palutena don't even compare to each other. Krystal has no importance to the star fox storyline nor has contributed to the franchise at all except being the biggest fur bait character ever, plus people wanting her for shallow reasons like having a vagina and her staff that she hardly used in SF Adventures. Apparently she's a better choice then Slippy. The guy that build's ALL the tech Fox and co. use and brings up the enemy's health.

 

[AdmN30]

To stay on track with Krystal. She and Palutena don't even compare to each other. Krystal has no importance to the star fox storyline nor has contributed to the franchise at all except being the biggest fur bait character ever, plus people wanting her for shallow reasons like having a vagina and her staff that she hardly used in SF Adventures.

People want Krystal in the game because she is one the more interesting and unique characters out of Star Fox. She is capable of magic and telepathic powers. Yes, we barely saw her fight with her staff, but it still belongs to her. It’s safe to assume that she is equally skilled with it, if not better with it than Fox is. It doesn’t matter if we hardly see her use it. I mean, the F-Zero games mention that Captain Falcon is a bounty hunter, and yet we still didn’t see him fight or apprehend criminals in those games. Characters like these can still fight as long as it’s mentioned that they have the capability. Krystal is still a better choice than most of the other Star Fox characters imo.

Apparently she's a better choice then Slippy. The guy that build's ALL the tech Fox and co. use and brings up the enemy's health.

Slippy is already a bad idea for Smash Bros. He has pretty much been established as one of the most hated Nintendo characters. It’s ironic that he builds the technology for the Star Fox team… and yet he sucks at the Arwing.

 

[3Bismyname]

Im overall not against the idea of Krystal joining. I just think we have enough characters representing the series as it is. now if something would happen with the franchise soon offering Krystal an even bigger role in the game. sure by all means add her. but Starfox is really perfect where it is IMO.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wait, are you arguing against my last post or helping it? I ask because your first sentence is the reason why I brought up Ice Climbers before. They are both different genders that fight exactly the same. By SMBF's logic Nana wouldn't fight like Popo because she's a girl and would fight differently if she were a male. And what you said about male and female's thinking differently will determine how they fight, I can agree to a certain extent but it pretty much helps what SMBF said about Samus couldn't fight the same if she were a man, which I disagree because we have normal Samus that has a masculine like move set that doesn't portray gender whatsoever, and Sheik (Yes Sheik is a woman, but it's Zelda's disguise to make you think she's a man, and her body language shows it).

The reason Nana and Popo fight the same is because they're a team. It would make sense for there to be some syncing between the two to fight effectively together.

A fighting style isn't necessarily characteristic of any gender. Samus' moves can be pretty much androgynous as the movements aren't exactly masculine or feminine. Like with gender differences, she has a fighting that suits the limitations of her being in a suit, namely that she cannot use both her hands so a number of acrobatic techniques are limited. She has a gun on her right hand so grappling options are also limited. She has projectiles available to her. At the same time, she has perfect access to the use of both her legs and she can use her giant shoulder pads as a weapon (her Dash Attack).

The thing is, gender shouldn't even play a part on how a character plays in a fighting game or any game for that matter. Sakurai could, or anyone make up a female character that plays like Bo Rai Cho from Mortal Kombat (fart moves and all) or Blanka from Street Fighter with opposite physical proportions of those two characters, and it'll work. You know why? It's not real life.

Could you make characters fight like them? Yes, but they would not be considered attractive unless girl Blanka went for an Amazon thing. And while videogames are not real life, you can't just toss out the suspension of disbelief entirely.

To stay on track with Krystal. She and Palutena don't even compare to each other. Krystal has no importance to the star fox storyline nor has contributed to the franchise at all except being the biggest fur bait character ever, plus people wanting her for shallow reasons like having a vagina and her staff that she hardly used in SF Adventures. Apparently she's a better choice then Slippy. The guy that build's ALL the tech Fox and co. use and brings up the enemy's health.

As if importance in the series matters. The only reason people place more importance on Falco over Krystal is because he was around longer. Ultimately, it's about what she can bring to the table in regards to new playstyles, not importance. Never, has Sakurai said that importance in the series was a requirement.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Importance is a requirement whether you like it or not, and it shows.

 

[Big-Cat]

Would you consider Geno important?

 

[The Real Gamer]

Importance is a requirement whether you like it or not, and it shows.

Krystal has already established a huge fanbase after being a main character in the latest 3 StarFox games (not including the 64 remake for obvious reasons). If more games were to be made she would undoubtedly be included... She's very important to the series now whether you want to admit it or not. All it takes is an announcement that a new StarFox game is in development and Krystal's chances for Smash 4 will skyrocket.

Like Kuma said, it's not that she isn't important, she just hasn't been around as long as long as the rest of the StarFox gang has. That shouldn't be a strike against her.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Would you consider Geno important?

Absolutely not.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Importance to a series will vary in a game like smash bros. Look at what games are represented at this point, and who represents each of them. Comparing Geno's importance to that of Krystal's is a bit strange. The two are nothing alike.

A more proper comparison would be comparing Waluigi and Krystal. Are they important to each series? In my opinion, debatable on both accounts. I wouldn't mind Krystal, but thats only if other particular characters get into the game.

Not that this will make logical sense to anyone, but wanting Slippy is like wanting Peppy Hare. While wanting the other two members of Star Fox in Smash isn't a bad thing, it just doesn't make sense for the character. In Star Fox Assault, (which was the last Star Fox game i played) Peppy was an old fart, and it wouldn't make much sense to include him as he isn't all that important to the series.

Wolf got in because he is the next best thing to a villain to the Star Fox series that they could pick (Andross would be stupid imo). This makes sense for the series. Think of it like the Mario representation, protagonist, sidekick, villain, female character.

I would absolutely say Krystal has much over Slippy in terms of being a good choice for Smash Bros. This is purely an opinion, but based on my interpretation of the facts. Slippy is a hated character who I even personally make fun of all the time, and when you really think about it isn't important.

Sure, he makes their weapons. ROB 64 was a robot operating on the Great fox and in the training program in Star Fox 64. By that logic, ROB 64 should be an eligible character. That logic can be applied in so many ridiculous ways that it is silly to apply that kind of thing. But there is one thing that they share. Slippy and ROB 64 aren't all THAT important.

Well cuz you know, Panther Caruso is uber important too...

 

[FlareHabanero]

Krystal isn't even that important at all. The only importance she ever had in the entire series was being Fox's shallow lover, which is hardly bragging rights. This is especially notable since it's hinted that Krystal is not loyal to Star Fox at all and is only in the team to be close to Fox, which is kinda shallow.

 

[Deleted member]

Correction, Wolf got in because he was one of the more requested characters according to ChronoBound's studies in Japanese speculation.

And honestly, I could bring in a whole list in how Slippy is more important than even Falco, but this is Krystal's thread.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Krystal isn't even that important at all. The only importance she ever had in the entire series was being Fox's shallow lover, which is hardly bragging rights. This is especially notable since it's hinted that Krystal is not loyal to Star Fox at all and is only in the team to be close to Fox, which is kinda shallow.

The only importance Peach has in the Mario series is getting captured by Bowser... your point?

And the reasoning for her allegiance to the team is irrelevant. She's still a member of the team. I mean **** she even replaced Peppy as a combat pilot in Assault. Has Peach ever fought alongside Mario? Going by your logic I'd say Krystal is more important to Fox than Peach is to Mario.

But as we all have been saying none of that hardly matters.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Has Peach ever fought alongside Mario?

Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
Super Paper Mario
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Super Smash Bros. Brawl