Pretty in pink or true in blue, Krystal for Sm4sh!

[3Bismyname]

Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
Super Paper Mario
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Super Smash Bros. Brawl

add Super Princess Peach for her own title

 

[FlareHabanero]

add Super Princess Peach for her own title

Peach didn't fight alongside Mario in that game.

 

[3Bismyname]

Peach didn't fight alongside Mario in that game.

o thats what we're doing. ok gotcha

 

[Deleted member]

Despite Peach having a role as the typical damsel-in-distress, it's pretty much the main drive to the story.
Bowser kidnaps Peach, Mario defeats Bowser, Mario rescues Peach, Bowser kidnaps Peach again. It's a never-ending cycle.
It's how the Super Mario series started, and it's how it will continue, save for a few derivatives where there's other villains involved.

Take Peach out, and Bowser loses his reason for antagonism. Now we have no villain unless a new one comes out of nowhere.

Take Krystal out of a Star Fox game (after Adventures, as I don't want to make it seem like I'm being a smartass with Star Fox and Star Fox 64), and you simply lose a pilot. Big deal; either a new one comes in or we just stick with Fox/Falco/Slippy with the occasional piloting by Peppy even though he's not supposed to. We don't lose much. I mean, Star Wolf only has 3 pilots now, and it works out fine.
Oh, but Krystal is the love interest? After Adventures it is either hardly played upon (Assault), or potentially treated negatively (Command), and it's not a driving force of the Star Fox plot.

Now, I can see this being turned into a "take out Slippy, and it's no big deal either". However, take out Slippy, and you don't get health readings on bosses. This is even invoked in-game, where despite being annoying and needing saving all the time (less so after 64, or at least EVERYONE needs to be saved all the time equally), he is necessary to keep active so that you know what you're doing right and wrong against a boss.
Also, he's the team's mechanic. Take him out, and the team has no weapons or vehicles. He may not be a driving force in the plot, but he's still pretty damn important. Moreso than Falco, who's just there to serve as a hotshot pilot. Sure, he's supposedly the 2nd in command, but how often do you see Falco take leadership role?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Well in most Star Fox games, there wouldn't usually be a chance for Falco to take leadership of it, considering Fox is always there. Unless of course they have a new one where you place as different characters at different points of the game (which could be pretty awesome).

I get your point though definitely. I'm personally in the mindset that Star Fox doesn't need another rep at all, or at least at this point. In my personal opinion, although Slippy may be important in those respects, i don't see him as important enough to warrant a roster spot. He is missing one major asset to getting into Smash Bros. as well, and that is the amount of fan support. Krystal outweighs him there, whether she deserves it or not.

Of course, that probably results from the amount of people who find her..."attractive"...ewww

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, in Japan, Slippy is more popular of a character, and are about equal in Smash requests (according to Chrono).

Slippy isn't as hated as people make him out to be.

 

[3Bismyname]

I think Slippy is more disliked in America than anywhere else really. probably due to the dubbing and what not.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
Super Paper Mario
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Super Smash Bros. Brawl

The last two aren't Mario games but you got me on the rest.

But I still stand on my original argument that she's no more important to the Mario series since her prime role is getting captured by Bowser.

Importance doesn't really matter anyways. Popularity does. Popular characters just happen to be important to their respective series... Most of the time.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Despite Peach having a role as the typical damsel-in-distress, it's pretty much the main drive to the story.
Bowser kidnaps Peach, Mario defeats Bowser, Mario rescues Peach, Bowser kidnaps Peach again. It's a never-ending cycle.
It's how the Super Mario series started, and it's how it will continue, save for a few derivatives where there's other villains involved.

Take Peach out, and Bowser loses his reason for antagonism. Now we have no villain unless a new one comes out of nowhere.

Take Krystal out of a Star Fox game (after Adventures, as I don't want to make it seem like I'm being a smartass with Star Fox and Star Fox 64), and you simply lose a pilot. Big deal; either a new one comes in or we just stick with Fox/Falco/Slippy with the occasional piloting by Peppy even though he's not supposed to. We don't lose much. I mean, Star Wolf only has 3 pilots now, and it works out fine.
Oh, but Krystal is the love interest? After Adventures it is either hardly played upon (Assault), or potentially treated negatively (Command), and it's not a driving force of the Star Fox plot.

Now, I can see this being turned into a "take out Slippy, and it's no big deal either". However, take out Slippy, and you don't get health readings on bosses. This is even invoked in-game, where despite being annoying and needing saving all the time (less so after 64, or at least EVERYONE needs to be saved all the time equally), he is necessary to keep active so that you know what you're doing right and wrong against a boss.
Also, he's the team's mechanic. Take him out, and the team has no weapons or vehicles. He may not be a driving force in the plot, but he's still pretty damn important. Moreso than Falco, who's just there to serve as a hotshot pilot. Sure, he's supposedly the 2nd in command, but how often do you see Falco take leadership role?

Sorry for double posting but I'm still not understanding this reasoning behind importance. If Sakurai simply bases his character choices off of importance than there are MULTIPLE requested characters that should have no shot in Smash 4, such as Krystal, Zoroark (or any 5th gen Pokemon for that matter), Dixie, Geno, Waluigi, Bowswer Jr., Toad, or Samurai Goroh. Because going by what you're saying here none of the above characters are important to their respective series since said series can easily do without them (or already have done w/o them).

I still don't see how importance matters. I still say that important characters just happen to be the most popular.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I see importance to a series become different when considering smash bros. A lot of characters while they could be important to their series, are not a good fit for smash bros. Like my example of peppy hare. He is another important member of the Star Fox team, even though he is no longer a pilot. What about General Pepper? He pretty much led the entire army!

When you take any character, there is one thing that will most of the time outrank any reason for them to be included and that is popularity. Sure characters like R.O.B will be in there, but thats because Smash Bros. is a celebration of the company in general, and there are bound to be characters like that in there.

If Ridley wasn't so heavily wanted, I'm not so sure he would be considered, because of Sakurai's comment that he would be "pretty impossible" (i'm sure i'll get **** for that). Or K. Rool. He hasn't been in a Donkey Kong game in a very long time. Relevancy is a bad argument sometimes, but if the popularity isn't there for a character either, that character is going to have a bad time. Popularity imo, has saved a lot of characters chances.

I think both sides have good points, but I feel like popularity absolutely matters. This is why I also believe hate bases also matter (unless they are miniscule of course). But that is a whole other debate on its own.

EDIT: One other point I would like to make. Even though Slippy does give the Boss's health and such, with him gone, couldn't Peppy or somebody else do the same from the Great Fox? I don't see how that couldn't possibly happen. It's not like some video game characters aren't able to be replaced

To stay on topic, could someone explain to me what the canon ending to Command is? I just don't know what happens and if it concerns Krystal at all.

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry for double posting but I'm still not understanding this reasoning behind importance. If Sakurai simply bases his character choices off of importance than there are MULTIPLE requested characters that should have no shot in Smash 4, such as Krystal, Zoroark (or any 5th gen Pokemon for that matter), Dixie, Geno, Waluigi, Bowswer Jr., Toad, or Samurai Goroh. Because going by what you're saying here none of the above characters are important to their respective series since said series can easily do without them (or already have done w/o them).

I still don't see how importance matters. I still say that important characters just happen to be the most popular.

I never said anything about importance mattering in that post.
I'm only saying that comparing Krystal to Peach in importance is flawed as Peach is a main component to the overall plot of the Mario series, while Krystal is not for her series.

EDIT: And stating how Slippy is actually more important than Falco or Krystal. So by all means he deserves it more, but that doesn't mean he's particularly likely.

And no, Scoliosis, Peppy isn't technical, so he can't do what Slippy does. And if you read what I had posted, I also mentioned how Slippy makes all of the Star Fox tech and vehicles. Without him, the team has no ships, no guns, nothing.

 

[MagnesD3]

Fox, Wolf and Krystal are the only sf reps that matter.

 

[3Bismyname]

Fox, Wolf and Krystal are the only sf reps that matter.

To u. A lot of people find Krystal very overrated and even marks the decline of the franchise

 

[Deleted member]

If they are the only ones who matter, then by all means, think of how a game would be with just the three of them.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

To u. A lot of people find Krystal very overrated and even marks the decline of the franchise

I wouldn't go as far as to say she herself was responsible for the decline of the series, but she is overrated, yeah.

 

[Slugma128]

Forget her boobs, this is why Krystal is so popular:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f_A9TzNKCM

She wears a semi thong in Adventures, and most of her butt is bare. Very few Nintendo ladies have those kind of skimpy underwear!

 

[The Real Gamer]

Forget her boobs, this is why Krystal is so popular:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f_A9TzNKCM

She wears a semi thong in Adventures, and most of her butt is bare. Very few Nintendo ladies have those kind of skimpy underwear!

Seriously what is up with your fascination of video game arses?

They're nice to look at from time to time but you take it to a fairly creepy level.

 

[Slugma128]

Seriously what is up with your fascination of video game arses?

They're nice to look at from time to time but you take it to a fairly creepy level.

I have been a butt man since I was six years old (the first time I was sexually attracted to a girl's butt). Don't blame me, blame my genes!

 

[MagnesD3]

I like krystal cuz she is fox's love interest, a psudo psychic and would have an awesome moveset with that staff of hers. Also its not her fault in the decline of the series blame nintendos poor decisions, first making fox a zelda clone (although a fun one ) and then allowing namco to make a terrible sequel, and then allowing a crappy strategy esk ds game that goes back to stupid babble talk and is completely uncannon. (and allowing the series to completely miss the wii )

 

[MagnesD3]

If they are the only ones who matter, then by all means, think of how a game would be with just the three of them.

they are the most important to represent the series, the rest of the star fox team would not make good additions due to the movesets being forced or being a cloney (wolf isnt even close to a clone) which would be redundant.

 

[3Bismyname]

I like krystal cuz she is fox's love interest, a psudo psychic and would have an awesome moveset with that staff of hers. Also its not her fault in the decline of the series blame nintendos poor decisions, first making fox a zelda clone (although a fun one ) and then allowing namco to make a terrible sequel, and then allowing a crappy strategy esk ds game that goes back to stupid babble talk and is completely uncannon. (and allowing the series to completely miss the wii )

she was an unnecesary addition to the Star Fox series and her introduction is poor as well. the love affair between her and Fox feels unnatural and forced. it isn't played on in anyway relevant to the storyline. if there was ever a more needless love interest in a video game i haven't played it yet. if anything i find her to be the least important to the series.

I don't blame Star Fox's decline squarely on her, that would be stupid. But the game in which she was introduced is when the series got worse.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Meh. I don't see what the whole fuss is about with these characters. I love Star Fox, its truly an awesome series. But in terms of characters, they just don't have much left that would fit well and/or deserve a spot on the roster.

@Golden that makes sense. However my point in general is that characters in video games, save for the protagonist and villain can sometimes be replaceable. Slippy may have an importance to Star Fox, but I don't see that importance translating to Smash Bros. Especially, if he is a mechanic, and most of the time is piloting an Arwing, he doesn't strike me as fit to engage in hand to hand combat.

That is what my main point is. Sure characters are important, but if they don't fit into Smash Bros., then why would they get a spot?

And anyone could make a moveset for any character they desire and say they would work. That isn't enough by any means for their inclusion.

 

[Deleted member]

they are the most important to represent the series, the rest of the star fox team would not make good additions due to the movesets being forced or being a cloney (wolf isnt even close to a clone) which would be redundant.

This is absolutely horrible logic.

"Forced"? And Krystal wouldn't be forced?
"Oh, but she has the staff", bullroar. The only thing SHE did with it is shoot firebolts. it was FOX that did all those other fancy powers, so being given the staff with those abilities would be "forced".
And not only that, but even with the staff, she could be "cloney", considering that not only can the staff be used in a similar way to the other Special attacks, but she can also not use the staff for Specials, and instead do similar things to Fox/Falco/Wolf. Same with non-Specials.
So by that degree, Krystal can just as easily be "forced" and "cloney" as she can't.

And with a sense of logic, since you're acting as though the fact Wolf has no similar non-Special attacks to Fox makes him "non-cloney", the same logic can apply to other characters.
Slippy and Peppy have a different, non-limber build. Them performing anything similar to Fox/Falco would be ridiculous.
As for Specials, they don't have to be clones in that regard either, since there are plenty of weapons and tech from Assault that surprisingly neither Fox, Falco, nor Wolf use in Brawl. And before you say "it'd be forced", remember that they are playable in multiplayer mode, and have access to all those weapons and tech (and Slippy MADE the tech).

And aside from that, if Wolf is "non-cloney", neither is Falco. Why does Falco not matter?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

This is absolutely horrible logic.

"Forced"? And Krystal wouldn't be forced?
"Oh, but she has the staff", bullroar. The only thing SHE did with it is shoot firebolts. it was FOX that did all those other fancy powers, so being given the staff with those abilities would be "forced".
And not only that, but even with the staff, she could be "cloney", considering that not only can the staff be used in a similar way to the other Special attacks, but she can also not use the staff for Specials, and instead do similar things to Fox/Falco/Wolf. Same with non-Specials.
So by that degree, Krystal can just as easily be "forced" and "cloney" as she can't.

And with a sense of logic, since you're acting as though the fact Wolf has no similar non-Special attacks to Fox makes him "non-cloney", the same logic can apply to other characters.
Slippy and Peppy have a different, non-limber build. Them performing anything similar to Fox/Falco would be ridiculous.
As for Specials, they don't have to be clones in that regard either, since there are plenty of weapons and tech from Assault that surprisingly neither Fox, Falco, nor Wolf use in Brawl. And before you say "it'd be forced", remember that they are playable in multiplayer mode, and have access to all those weapons and tech (and Slippy MADE the tech).

And aside from that, if Wolf is "non-cloney", neither is Falco. Why does Falco not matter?

Agreed. I personally see any argument involving potential movesets is an awful argument/ logic.

 

[Opossum]

From what I've seen, the guy just seems to have a personal vendetta against Falco for no good reason.

 

[Deleted member]

From what I've seen, the guy just seems to have a personal vendetta against Falco for no good reason.

He probably tried touching Falco's bread.

 

[Aipom]

IMO, Falco actually has the best balance of speed and power of the 3 StarFox characters in Brawl.

Krystal isn't a terrible choice for a new character, but there are better

 

[FlareHabanero]

Personally I'd rather have Leon over Krystal. I mean the guy is mentally unstable and is a psychopathic assassin with some sort of grudge with Falco.

 

[Aipom]

We could have Fox to Wolf, and now Falco to Leon!

 

[The Real Gamer]

psychopathic assassin

When you said this I thought of Pico from the F-Zero series for whatever reason.

 

[Deleted member]

When you said this I thought of Pico from the F-Zero series for whatever reason.

Well, he's a pyschopathic assassin. Makes sense that you'd think of him.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Not really when you consider I haven't played F-Zero in years. >.>

 

[MagnesD3]

This is absolutely horrible logic.

"Forced"? And Krystal wouldn't be forced?
"Oh, but she has the staff", bullroar. The only thing SHE did with it is shoot firebolts. it was FOX that did all those other fancy powers, so being given the staff with those abilities would be "forced".
And not only that, but even with the staff, she could be "cloney", considering that not only can the staff be used in a similar way to the other Special attacks, but she can also not use the staff for Specials, and instead do similar things to Fox/Falco/Wolf. Same with non-Specials.
So by that degree, Krystal can just as easily be "forced" and "cloney" as she can't.

And with a sense of logic, since you're acting as though the fact Wolf has no similar non-Special attacks to Fox makes him "non-cloney", the same logic can apply to other characters.
Slippy and Peppy have a different, non-limber build. Them performing anything similar to Fox/Falco would be ridiculous.
As for Specials, they don't have to be clones in that regard either, since there are plenty of weapons and tech from Assault that surprisingly neither Fox, Falco, nor Wolf use in Brawl. And before you say "it'd be forced", remember that they are playable in multiplayer mode, and have access to all those weapons and tech (and Slippy MADE the tech).

And aside from that, if Wolf is "non-cloney", neither is Falco. Why does Falco not matter?

How is it horrific logic have you even played all the star fox games to completion, krystals moveset is easy as pie, i have 100 percented sfa twice her moves would be awesome, also falco only has a fanbase cuz he was dumbly put in melee, he is a horrid pick cuz he i just a clone, wolf has a ton of variety in his a moves just like lucas that sets him apart from fox his overall feel is very different even his special properties seem quite different, falcos moveset is entirely stolen from fox to a tee cept for the kick reflector thing. Falco inclusion dumb, Krystal inclusion unique and important to the series as she is fox's love interest whether some fans like it or not. Falco is just a co pilot.

Krystal
B: fire shot/ice freeze (can be tilted up) hold b to make it the ice freeze (freezes on hit)
B over: the spin attack from sfa that fox can do in combat
B up : the staff launch from sfa, it would send you very vertically.
B down: ground quake, can be held to charge for more range does go damage and stun.

Note: I love falco in the sf games, I am only against him in smash bros.

 

[MagnesD3]

she was an unnecesary addition to the Star Fox series and her introduction is poor as well. the love affair between her and Fox feels unnatural and forced. it isn't played on in anyway relevant to the storyline. if there was ever a more needless love interest in a video game i haven't played it yet. if anything i find her to be the least important to the series.

I don't blame Star Fox's decline squarely on her, that would be stupid. But the game in which she was introduced is when the series got worse.

I thought she was a great a great addition, mario get peach for stomping on things, link has zelda for going on an adventure, fox saves the galaxy and gets krystal. Honestly I think fox is the most deserving out of the 3 for a love interest, as he does the most work. Also I love sfa its a great game just not a star fox game, I feel alot of hate goes against anything related to the game becuz of this.

 

[3Bismyname]

except that Mario had Peach from the begining and Peach is actually essential to Mario's lore, legacy and success. its not a question of which hero deserves what. Krystals addition was not essential or necesary. if Krystal wasn't in the next Star Fox, I doubt many people would care. and Link has never actually been with Zelda.

 

[Deleted member]

How is it horrific logic have you even played all the star fox games to completion, krystals moveset is easy as pie, i have 100 percented sfa twice her moves would be awesome, also falco only has a fanbase cuz he was dumbly put in melee, he is a horrid pick cuz he i just a clone, wolf has a ton of variety in his a moves just like lucas that sets him apart from fox his overall feel is very different even his special properties seem quite different, falcos moveset is entirely stolen from fox to a tee cept for the kick reflector thing. Falco inclusion dumb, Krystal inclusion unique and important to the series as she is fox's love interest whether some fans like it or not. Falco is just a co pilot.

Krystal
B: fire shot/ice freeze (can be tilted up) hold b to make it the ice freeze (freezes on hit)
B over: the spin attack from sfa that fox can do in combat
B up : the staff launch from sfa, it would send you very vertically.
B down: ground quake, can be held to charge for more range does go damage and stun.

Note: I love falco in the sf games, I am only against him in smash bros.

There is so much wrong in this post.
1. Falco has had popularity prior to his Melee debut. In fact, it was what got in Melee in the first place over Wolf.
2. Falco is just a co-pilot? Try being 2nd in command for the team. The Spock to Fox's Kirk.
3. Krystal being the love interest makes her "important"? Well then, Candy Kong must mean a lot to the Donkey Kong series, since she's DK's love interest.
4. Listing a set of moves that FOX used with the staff doesn't help.
I can easily make a set that makes her cloned with or without the staff.
Krystal w/ Staff:
B: Firebolt. Fires just like a Blaster, just using the staff instead.
Side B: Krystal Enchantment. Like Fox Illusion, Krystal dashes forward. The only difference is that she does ice damage.
Up B: Rocket Boost. Like Fire Fox, but with no fire (so more like Fire Wolf/Wolf Shoot), and she moves staff-first.
Down B: Barrier. Just like Reflector, only with the staff's barrier power.

Krystal without Staff:
B: Blaster.
Side B: Krystal Enchantment. Same as before, but no ice damage.
Up B: Fire Vixen. Just like Fire Fox, but with Krystal instead.
Down B: Reflector.


And just for fun, let's revamp Falco a bit, shall we?
B: Blaster. Same as it was before, but he uses two Blasters instead and alternate shots, similar to his debut cutscene from the SSE.
Side B: Sniper Rifle. Using the Sniper Rifle he has in this image:

Falco aims with the Control Stick, then fires a fast, powerful shot by pressing the B button again. He then puts it away after shooting.
Up B: Homing Launcher Lift. Using the Homing Launcher he has in this image:

Falco shoots downwards, propelling himself into the air. The shot will lock on to people near it's line of fire.
Down B: Reflector. Same as before with the kicking.

And for more fun, let's give him a new Final Smash.
Sky Claw: Falco hops in his personal vehicle from Command, and can fly around and shoot with it.

5. Since you're going off on Specials only, then Wolf copies Fox to a "tee" aside from his Side B making up fly diagonally instead of straight.
That's how stupid your logic is.

 

[Curious Villager]

To be fair toward your fourth point, Zelda also never used those Goddes powers that Link used in Ocarina of Time but still uses them in smash instead of Link(but utilized differently), so I don't see the problem with Krystal using the abilities of the staff that Fox acquired. Unless I misunderstood what you meant, which in that case, forget what I said.

btw, I don't mind Krystal but she isn't one I would personally support but yeah... ^^

 

[Deleted member]

My point was that having those makes her just as "forced" as he said making anyone other than her be different would.

By all means, Krystal using the powers would be well and fine, but to use them to glorify her and demean everyone else that can be different as well is flawed and idiotic, which I was trying to get across to him.

 

[Curious Villager]

My point was that having those makes her just as "forced" as he said making anyone other than her be different would.

By all means, Krystal using the powers would be well and fine, but to use them to glorify her and demean everyone else that can be different as well is flawed and idiotic, which I was trying to get across to him.

Oh alright then, Haven't fully read the argument at hand. Never mind then.

 

[The Real Gamer]

These arguments keep going in circles... I thought we already established that importance isn't even a prerequisite, yet here we are arguing about importance.

I also find it amusing that the "Krystal support thread" is more like a "Krystal debate thread." I honestly had no idea she had so many anti-supporters. >.>