Pretty in pink or true in blue, Krystal for Sm4sh!

[Joe D.]

Nah, I think they can come up with new lines for her such as...

"My training has really paid off!"
"You were good, but not as good as me!"

When Fox is present

"How does it feel to be defeated by a lady, Fox?"

When Falco is present

"Oh Falco, I always figured you'd be better in the air than on foot!"

When Wolf is present

"Weren't you supposed to be the tough guy, Wolf?"

I actually really like those. Maybe they could make Fox all shy and awkward if he wins a match against her. As for other victory themes, I think one should be a no word, awesome pose. Maybe she could flail her staff around majestically, and then strike a final pose. Taunts? Same situation, but maybe have her make playful remarks to the other fighters. Something like the way Sonic taunts.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe they could make Fox all shy and awkward if he wins a match against her.

I.....guess it'd work? (Even though there wasn't much of that in Command but I like to pretend it never existed)

As for other victory themes, I think one should be a no word, awesome pose. Maybe she could flail her staff around majestically, and then strike a final pose.

I can't speak for flailing around the staff but it should end like this

Taunts? Same situation, but maybe have her make playful remarks to the other fighters. Something like the way Sonic taunts.

I got it! Sort of...

"I can read your thoughts!" Alternately: *Giggle*
"Put in some more effort!"
*Some pose*

 

[Joe D.]

I.....guess it'd work? (Even though there wasn't much of that in Command but I like to pretend it never existed)



I can't speak for flailing around the staff but it should end like this

I got it! Sort of...

"I can read your thoughts!" Alternately: *Giggle*
"Put in some more effort!"
*Some pose*

You sir, have the right idea. Did you make that picture?

 

[Ghirahilda]

Krystal is underrated... I really see her as a very important Star Fox char...

 

[Deleted member]

You sir, have the right idea. Did you make that picture?

*Render

I didn't get the models, per-see...but I did a bit of posing & remade Krystal's fur to be kind of a bit more modern (Arguably there isn't' anything wrong with her default fur)

Krystal is underrated... I really see her as a very important Star Fox char...

Agreed. (Although there is a bound to be someone who'll say the exact opposite)

 

[Joe D.]

Krystal is underrated... I really see her as a very important Star Fox char...

She's extremely important. Anyone who say otherwise is wrong. That's not trying to be stubborn either, because all the opposing arguments are always poorly constructed.

 

[Deleted member]

She's extremely important. Anyone who say otherwise is wrong. That's not trying to be stubborn either, because all the opposing arguments are always poorly constructed.

You know speaking of arguments...we oughta construct one. Everyone else is defending their characters from the detractors, we should do it too instead of being sitting ducks open to be attacked.

 

[Joe D.]

You know speaking of arguments...we oughta construct one. Everyone else is defending their characters from the detractors, we should do it too instead of being sitting ducks open to be attacked.

Go to page 509 ( I think,) on the Official Character Discussion Thread if you want to seey argument. I am never a sitting duck if this argument is brought up.

 

[IsmaR]

She's extremely important. Anyone who say otherwise is wrong. That's not trying to be stubborn either, because all the opposing arguments are always poorly constructed.

I don't think most people are arguing that she's not important in her series. More that she's and Star Fox as a series are not important enough to get in over various other newcomers.

 

[Joe D.]

I don't think most people are arguing that she's not important in her series. More that she's and Star Fox as a series are not important enough to get in over various other newcomers.

Well that is also a flawed argument People love to use the idea of imaginary limits on representation as an official argument.

I do agree that it is the common argument, but in my main forum, I always see a Krystal discussion transform into how worthless people think she is, when she is an extremely viable to the franchise, which goes in hand to why she would make sense to represent Star Fox in Smash Bros.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I can't see her replacing Wolf, but I can't see Star Fox getting four characters right now. But I'd like to see her get in someday.

 

[Joe D.]

I can't see her replacing Wolf, but I can't see Star Fox getting four characters right now. But I'd like to see her get in someday.

I don't see why SF can't have 4 reps. Is it because there hasn't been any games? Melee added Falco when SF was dormant for 5 years. At least this time around we got something, even though it was a remake.

 

[R0Y]

Star Fox Adventures is underrated, I approve

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

At least this time around we got something, even though it was a remake.

Is she in the remake, though?

 

[R0Y]

Is she in the remake, though?

No, because the original Star Fox 64 came out in 1997. Krystal's first appearance was in 2002 in Star Fox Adventures.

 

[Shorts]

Is she in the remake, though?

Why would she be in a remake of a game she was not in?

 

[R0Y]

Why would she be in a remake of a game she was not in?

That's probably something that's happened before with full remakes, especially since the multiplayer was expanded anyway. Not outside the realms of possibility but yeah, she wasn't.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Why would she be in a remake of a game she was not in?

Super Mario 64 DS.

 

[Deleted member]

Super Mario 64 DS.

Where was Tingle in Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest & Ocarina of Time 3D?

 

[Joe D.]

Is she in the remake, though?

Nope, but it's still her franchise, and even if she's not in a remake that was based off a title released before her inclusion, she's still a major part of Star Fox.

Not to mention it would take away from the original pace of the game if she was added. It was intended to re-create the line and gameplay almost exactly like 64. Having Krystal in the remake would've strayed away from the intended goal.

Now if we were to get a new SF game soon, i'm certain she would return.

 

[verysleepywolf]

I like Krystal, but dear God if they don't give her the staff...

My wife's ex-husband/my best friend is a diehard StarFox fan, and he hadn't played StarFox Adventures until I provided him with my own copy. He played through it and decided it was complete garbage, criticizing just about every element of the game except for the amazing soundtrack. The primary reason I wanted him to play it was so that he could see who Krystal was and what the staff could do (literally the only StarFox game he had previously played was 64, but it is his all-time favorite game). I'd told him that I wanted Krystal in SSB4 and he scoffed, so we've had a nice looong argument that started a few years ago and has been reinvigorated with Smash 4 on the way. My wife is also against Krystal... says that Krystal is further defining females in videogames as "******* trapped in crystals".

The primary counter-arguments that I've come across are:

-Krystal is a token female character with no significance other than to make Fox get all awkward and provide the cast with estrogen.
-Even in her debut game she isn't integral to the story and was mostly there for sex appeal, objectifying females.
-Krystal doesn't deserve to be included over other characters like Slippy and Peppy, who have been around since the beginning and are capable of having different movesets due to their reliance on technology instead of agility.
-If Krystal was included, she would likely be staffless in her jumpsuit and wind up another semi-clone due to the fact that Adventures hasn't been relevant for years and the staff is not a recurring thing in the series.
-StarFox isn't successful enough to warrant a fourth character, and even if it was that character wouldn't be Krystal.


I've mostly been double-barreled by the two of them and hadn't been able to stand my own ground, overall I've felt like I'm kinda alone in wanting Krystal hehe. I've also admittedly failed in defending her as a possibility so I'm just looking for logic beyond my threshold that could possibly help the character's case.

 

[Grimnir]

My wife's ex-husband/my best friend

OK, off topic, but I have to know; how awkward is this?

 

[verysleepywolf]

OK, off topic, but I have to know; how awkward is this?

No mouth of man can describe.

 

[Joe D.]

I like Krystal, but dear God if they don't give her the staff...

My wife's ex-husband/my best friend is a diehard StarFox fan, and he hadn't played StarFox Adventures until I provided him with my own copy. He played through it and decided it was complete garbage, criticizing just about every element of the game except for the amazing soundtrack. The primary reason I wanted him to play it was so that he could see who Krystal was and what the staff could do (literally the only StarFox game he had previously played was 64, but it is his all-time favorite game). I'd told him that I wanted Krystal in SSB4 and he scoffed, so we've had a nice looong argument that started a few years ago and has been reinvigorated with Smash 4 on the way. My wife is also against Krystal... says that Krystal is further defining females in videogames as "*****es trapped in crystals".

The primary counter-arguments that I've come across are:

-Krystal is a token female character with no significance other than to make Fox get all awkward and provide the cast with estrogen.
-Even in her debut game she isn't integral to the story and was mostly there for sex appeal, objectifying females.
-Krystal doesn't deserve to be included over other characters like Slippy and Peppy, who have been around since the beginning and are capable of having different movesets due to their reliance on technology instead of agility.
-If Krystal was included, she would likely be staffless in her jumpsuit and wind up another semi-clone due to the fact that Adventures hasn't been relevant for years and the staff is not a recurring thing in the series.
-StarFox isn't successful enough to warrant a fourth character, and even if it was that character wouldn't be Krystal.


I've mostly been double-barreled by the two of them and hadn't been able to stand my own ground, overall I've felt like I'm kinda alone in wanting Krystal hehe. I've also admittedly failed in defending her as a possibility so I'm just looking for logic beyond my threshold that could possibly help the character's case.

You know what? I have to agree with some of those points, but there's still many flaws.

-First of all, Krystal was given a role that holds much more importance than Slippy, or Peppy, in that she is the main love interest and has certain attributes that no other character has. Having a mysterious backstory, for one. Being a love interest holds more potential in a story than another sidekick, which would make her a more viable rep than any other character.

-Explain to me how a main franchise Star Fox game is no longer relevant? No seriously, explain to me why Mario, Kirby, and other franchises can take countless elements from their games, but not Star Fox.

-They did objectify her a bit, yes, and that was something I never payed attention to as a kid. In fact, if we were just going by Adventures, I wouldn't support Krystal, but how about you show them Assault? That branched Krystal out as a character, gives her a bit more personality, and shows that she contributes to the team. Sure, there is a cheesy love plot that shows in a mission, THE GAME IS RATED E. It's meant to be an innocent little feature, it doesn't demean Krystal any further. ALSO, the idea of Star Fox not deserving another character because DEIRS A FRACYZE LIMIT LMAO LOL CANT HAV 4 is absurd. Any franchise deserves any character, as long as they bring enough to the table, and she does. The staff, the agility, the telepathy, weapons from Assault, that's enough to make a bad ass moveset.

-Are they aware of how much fan demand Krystal has? There are hundreds of thousands of people who still support her, much more than that of Slippy, Peppy, and others. Her Staff is still an extremely viable option, as it is from a canon Star Fox game, and it is under her possession. If it's made it's way into the franchise once, it has potential. You can't just pretend a canon item never existed. Also, your best friend is not a die hard Star Fox fan, He is a Die hard Star Fox 64 fan. Those kinds of fans do not deserve to call themselves real Star Fox fans, as they are completely bone headed towards the idea of more Star Fox games after 64.

I wish I could have a debate with those 2 that you're talking about, I'm not gonna let them settle me down so easy.

 

[Trigger123]

If she ends up making it in to me she will be the first female that I will actually enjoy playing with, besides Rosalina she looks like a new good addition.

 

[Deleted member]

My wife is also against Krystal... says that Krystal is further defining females in videogames as "*****es trapped in crystals".

Oh my god...that made me laugh so hard, I cannot breath. *Ahem* Seriously, if anybody paid attention to the later Star Fox games, they would know that she doesn't become a damsel in distress again. Her roles sort of change in each title & I like that.

I would even go as far as to see I want to see more female characters like Krystal instead of Samus or Lara Croft! I want to see more characters who are actually dynamic & have their ups & downs because usually for female game characters, you either wind up as a damsel in distress that somehow happens to be a woman with big ****, a total bad*** woman who might as well be a "man with bewbs", or just someone who constantly cries about everything.

If you excuse me, I have to laugh even more.

The primary counter-arguments that I've come across are:

-Krystal is a token female character with no significance other than to make Fox get all awkward and provide the cast with estrogen.

Awkward for a bit in Adventures, little less in Assault, none in Command...Fox does not get all that much awkward when she is present, its only a few times. As for providing the cast with estrogen, thats full of BS & I think instead of providing the cast with estrogen, its the player. Krystal doesn't force Falco, Slippy, Peppy, Fox, etc. to like her considering that her emotional baggage may be huge but then again, this is Star Fox where it seems to be a standard to have a lot on their plates & require a lot of going behind the scenes in order to figure things out. Want to know about Fox's mother? Go read the comics because the games don't tell you anything.

-Even in her debut game she isn't integral to the story and was mostly there for sex appeal, objectifying females.

True, she didn't really have a central role in the games but being added for sex appeal I find laughable. I think she was added because Star Fox didn't really have any major female characters (No, I'm not counting Katt or Fara Phoenix) and the fact that Microsoft was eagerly waiting to get their hands on Rare which meant Krystal would be owned by them. I still thank Miyamoto to this day for turning Dinosaur Planet into Star Fox Adventures

This will likely turn heads but really, I don't think anyone is paying attention to what's really happening in the games for why Krystal first appears in a "Skimpy outfit". Think about it, Sauria is a tropical planet & when places are tropical, they're usually hot and humid as hell, I don't think you'd want to be there especially if you have fur or a lot of clothing.

Her home planet, Cerinia, might have been like that but we'll never know. There are women in the real world who dress like that, for example: The Amazon & Africa. Its perfectly acceptable there because its their culture. Given that Krystal may have came from a tribe (The Adventures Manuel implies that she is the last of her kind & only native survivor remaining), Dinosaur Planet containing a lot of jungle areas, & the soundtrack kind of using African instruments...I think RareWare & Nintendo may have been looking at those 2 places I mentioned above for influence. Makes sense to me!

In my opinion, a character wearing that kind of outfit doesn't scream sex appeal unless they did it for stupid reasons like DoA. Maybe I have a thick skull or something. Possibly double standards where its easier to make fun of a character thats an animal because "Only da furriez like them!!"

That reminds me, using "Fur Bait" as an argument is pathetically weak. It just translates out to: Why come up with a decent point when you can use this classic excuse?

-Krystal doesn't deserve to be included over other characters like Slippy and Peppy, who have been around since the beginning and are capable of having different movesets due to their reliance on technology instead of agility.

Joe D. has that covered

-If Krystal was included, she would likely be staffless in her jumpsuit and wind up another semi-clone due to the fact that Adventures hasn't been relevant for years and the staff is not a recurring thing in the series.

So you're thinking Sakurai will just be lazy & not look up a character's history to get their moves & animations made like Diddy Kong, wonderful!

-StarFox isn't successful enough to warrant a fourth character, and even if it was that character wouldn't be Krystal.

This is most subjective reasoning as everybody has different views on what franchises they consider worthy enough to get more characters & not worthy.

I eagerly await to hear what the 2 dudes have to say as I don't consider them Star Fox fans.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I would even go as far as to see I want to see more female characters like Krystal instead of Samus or Lara Croft! I want to see more characters who are actually dynamic & have their ups & downs because usually for female game characters, you either wind up as a damsel in distress that somehow happens to be a woman with big ****, a total bad*** woman who might as well be a "man with bewbs", or just someone who constantly cries about everything.

Ugh... I hate the "man with boobs" stereotype that people will deem a female character if they kick ass to a certain level. There's a certain line I'll draw if a female's just a flatout Mary Sue, but calling them men with boobs is stupid. And since you brought up Samus and Lara Croft, mind you, in their latest games (Tomb Raider reboot by Square Enix and Other M) they were anything but men with knockers... Weren't damsels in distress either necessary, but they had their vulnerable moments too (only in Samus's case, a scene everybody happens to hate) and their ups and downs.

I'm not a Krystal hater but in SF Adventures it was kinda hard to see her as anything but a damsel in distress. Her execution in that game's story was about as damsel as they come for me. She definitely got better later on though, not counting SF Command which made a lot of characters let's just say... more unlikable.

 

[Joe D.]

Ugh... I hate the "man with boobs" stereotype that people will deem a female character if they kick *** to a certain level. There's a certain line I'll draw if a female's just a flatout Mary Sue, but calling them men with boobs is stupid. And since you brought up Samus and Lara Croft, mind you, in their latest games (Tomb Raider reboot by Square Enix and Other M) they were anything but men with knockers... Weren't damsels in distress either necessary, but they had their vulnerable moments too (only in Samus's case, a scene everybody happens to hate) and their ups and downs.

I'm not a Krystal hater but in SF Adventures it was kinda hard to see her as anything but a damsel in distress. Her execution in that game's story was about as damsel as they come for me. She definitely got better later on though, not counting SF Command which made a lot of characters let's just say... more unlikable.

Well

Ugh... I hate the "man with boobs" stereotype that people will deem a female character if they kick *** to a certain level. There's a certain line I'll draw if a female's just a flatout Mary Sue, but calling them men with boobs is stupid. And since you brought up Samus and Lara Croft, mind you, in their latest games (Tomb Raider reboot by Square Enix and Other M) they were anything but men with knockers... Weren't damsels in distress either necessary, but they had their vulnerable moments too (only in Samus's case, a scene everybody happens to hate) and their ups and downs.

I'm not a Krystal hater but in SF Adventures it was kinda hard to see her as anything but a damsel in distress. Her execution in that game's story was about as damsel as they come for me. She definitely got better later on though, not counting SF Command which made a lot of characters let's just say... more unlikable.

Well it seems that they've referenced the Assault version of Krystal last game, so they would probably use that look, but even so, they would still explore her character as a whole.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Well

Well it seems that they've referenced the Assault version of Krystal last game, so they would probably use that look, but even so, they would still explore her character as a whole.

They could just hybridize her attires meaning she could have elements in her costume from Adventures, Assault, and Command, with her Adventures and Assault outfits being alternates

And back to Star Fox Salvation for a moment, Krystal getting possessed actually will create an emotional struggle within Fox, with corrupted Krystal trying to get him to attack her but Fox doesn't want to hurt her, finally shortly before the midway point of the game or the climax she is freed from NightScythe's control, and as for the gameplay, Fox, during the cut scene after he gets shot down on Sauria, he wakes up to find that he bow has the ability to use FireFox and Fox Illusion on foot,

 

[Altais]

I think Krystal would make a very interesting character for Super Smash Bros, assuming she uses her staff. Her moveset could combine a mix of magick and technology. As for an outfit, they could make up a totally new one. I think Krystal would look cool in a futuristic, military-style attire.

[collapse="Star Fox Command Spoilers"]I must say, if they ever continue the Starfox series, I hope they continue from the Star Fox Command ending in which Krystal turns into a lone bounty hunter. That, in mine opinion, would be far more interesting than going about the usual, pure-hearted path.[/collapse]

 

[Deleted member]

[collapse="Star Fox Command Spoilers"]I must say, if they ever continue the Starfox series, I hope they continue from the Star Fox Command ending in which Krystal turns into a lone bounty hunter. That, in mine opinion, would be far more interesting than going about the usual, pure-hearted path.[/collapse]

Pretty bold there, but I'd likely be OK with it more if it was a spin-off series.

 

[Joe D.]

You know what? I love that this thread is getting more active

 

[Deleted member]

You know what? I love that this thread is getting more active

I guess I can say the same thing despite there being fewer users checkin out this thread.

I'd consider myself, Shortie, & you a regular here

edit

I did some tinkering around with adding Krystal into Serious Sam 3, looks neat eh? (Linked due to size)

http://i.imgur.com/xLLEqxK.png

 

[MagnesD3]

I think Krystal would make a very interesting character for Super Smash Bros, assuming she uses her staff. Her moveset could combine a mix of magick and technology. As for an outfit, they could make up a totally new one. I think Krystal would look cool in a futuristic, military-style attire.

[collapse="Star Fox Command Spoilers"]I must say, if they ever continue the Starfox series, I hope they continue from the Star Fox Command ending in which Krystal turns into a lone bounty hunter. That, in mine opinion, would be far more interesting than going about the usual, pure-hearted path.[/collapse]

Command is uncannon and needs to be forgotten

 

[A Lucky Person]

I'm probably going to hurt some feelings, but if either Falco or Wolf get replaced by Krystal I would be super okay with her inclusion. She has a lot of potential.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm probably going to hurt some feelings, but if either Falco or Wolf get replaced by Krystal I would be super okay with her inclusion. She has a lot of potential.

Hmm...its probably just me but I think things have sort of changed with Krystal's possible inclusion in SSB4 (Although maybe not by much)

Before the major SSB4 direct, anyone that sugguested she should be added to the roster or replace a character would be crucified to death! Now, it seems a little more people are starting to accept her & would be OK with her replacin someone like Wolf (Again, it might not be much as there are still dudes that oppose the idea). I don't know how it started, maybe its custom movesets but I won't know.

All I can say is its a nice change of pace from the usual "Only da gross furriez like her" comments

 

[Joe D.]

That's actually a very interesting point. Would the replacement of Wolf be more likely now that custom movesets are an option? I mean, this would mean that replacing Wolf with a non-clone character would allow to make this option even more diverse. However, I don't want Wolf to get the axe just for one mode. I think we should bring this idea to the other thread.

 

[IsmaR]

Ugh... I hate the "man with boobs" stereotype that people will deem a female character if they kick *** to a certain level. There's a certain line I'll draw if a female's just a flatout Mary Sue, but calling them men with boobs is stupid. And since you brought up Samus and Lara Croft, mind you, in their latest games (Tomb Raider reboot by Square Enix and Other M) they were anything but men with knockers... Weren't damsels in distress either necessary, but they had their vulnerable moments too (only in Samus's case, a scene everybody happens to hate) and their ups and downs.

I'm not a Krystal hater but in SF Adventures it was kinda hard to see her as anything but a damsel in distress. Her execution in that game's story was about as damsel as they come for me. She definitely got better later on though, not counting SF Command which made a lot of characters let's just say... more unlikable.

I suppose it's easier to think about it when you consider Krystal was originally the protagonist of Dinosaur Planet, hence the association with the staff. Rather than just wanting the staff itself (with Fox wielding it) as the moveset, Krystal makes a much more plausible choice using it. Or so I'd like to think ever since the reveal of Rosalina using many Galaxy-gameplay inspired moves that she herself never used.

 

[Princess Toady]

I'm probably going to hurt some feelings, but if either Falco or Wolf get replaced by Krystal I would be super okay with her inclusion. She has a lot of potential.

On French fora, before Super Smash Bros Brawl came out, Krystal just had an insane amount of supporters, and to this day plenty of people still think she should have made it over Wolf. I don't even recall Wolf being mentioned much prior to Brawl their to be honest.

What I think is that Starfox fans wanted Wolf over her due to his importance, whereas people who knew little about Starfox in general and just wanted 'cool' characters in SSB saw much more potential in her, even though they might have never picked up a Starfox game in their life. Krystal has a good design, would definitely fit into the game, she's a female character and is rather popular even amongst non fans, her moveset would be one of a kind... She really has a lot going for her.

Plus, she's kind of the one that would make it if Starfox was to receive another character, I think that much is agreed upon in general.

I think of all the points the detractors make about her, only a few would stand scrutiny.

-We didn't see her use the staff in adventure!!!!!! > Did we see Rosalina fight with Luma before ? Does Peach usually attack with her derriere ? Falcon definitely showed us his moves in all the F-Zero games.
-She's just here for furry lovers and is totally useless ! > Are you sure you've played the Starfox games she appeared in ? She's part of the team now, get over it.
-It's because of her that the Starfox games suck now ! > No. One, the newer Starfox games do not suck, they are just different. Two, how can you blame a character for the series' decline...? It's like saying Shadow is responsible for some Sonic games sucking. Blame the developers if you don't like a game, not the characters.
-Fanservice much ? She's just another case of female objectification ! > I don't believe her Assault suit leads to fanservice. Nowadays, it feels like a female character has to be ugly to be accepted as not fanservy.... Geez. And Zero Suit Samus gets a free pass ? I would say the second part of the argument would hold weight if she had the exact same role as in adventures, and then again in adventures she was trying to help. She wasn't "Oh I'm so weak ! Please, I need a strong male protagonist to help me and hold me in his strong muscular arms !".

There are plenty of other fallacies that are said that we could easily debunk, but to be honest sometimes it's not worth it when you know people are trolling you intentionally.

 

[MagnesD3]

I'm probably going to hurt some feelings, but if either Falco or Wolf get replaced by Krystal I would be super okay with her inclusion. She has a lot of potential.

No its not worth it no matter how much I want her. Wolf is wayyyyy too important, and falco's playstyle is too loved.