Pretty in pink or true in blue, Krystal for Sm4sh!

[FlareHabanero]

Her staff isn't just for show, after all.

She only uses it for like a minute total and never uses it again after Star Fox: Adventures.

 

[Ultinarok]

She only uses it for like a minute total and never uses it again after Star Fox: Adventures.

Thanks for this. I always have a hard time breaking this to people, but its true. If anything, Fox should be using it. That said though, Zelda also didn't use Din's Fire/Nayru's Love/Farore's Wind in Zelda either, and Ness and Lucas didn't use PK Starstorm. AND Sheik never used Needles or Chains. So I guess this doesn't necessarily count against Krystal, but it is a good point.

 

[Frostwraith]

She only uses it for like a minute total and never uses it again after Star Fox: Adventures.

Well, I didn't know about that, but still, it wouldn't be too farfetched if Sakurai used the staff as a basis for a moveset, regardless of how much use it had in the original games. Smash isn't canon and we had movesets for characters made entirely from scratch.

Of course, that we can't rule out the possibility of her being a Fox clone or semi-clone, only using her staff in taunts and/or win poses, similar to Ganondorf and his sword. This would certainly be the case if she was a last-minute character.

Still don't think Star Fox warrants a 4th newcomer... Just, not yet.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

So I'm just going to say some things bluntly right now.

First off about Sheik, of course they had to make some stuff up out of their asses. I played OoT 3DS again and I'll throw this out here right now: She appears like, three times with more than a song. I'll give you Lucas/Ness though considering Lucas/Ness are two of some of Nintendo's characters with the most moves.

The one thing about Krystal that's notable about her staff (even if she only uses it for a minute) is it has moves AND it's still by all technicalities her staff. Fox could get it, but I don't see them changing original twelve much. Then again hey, they gave Samus "SUPER BOOB SAMUS"

Now onto some other stuff.

Really though, I don't think Sakurai looks at character choices like we all do. He doesn't go "Well, this character definitely deserves to be in on these merits because A B and C, therefore, I'll add them". I'm inclined to believe all that really goes into it is what he says goes into it. Sakurai likes the under dog, he likes the lesser known characters as well. So it's not even that a character needs to show up more than even once in a series to be included.

It comes down to if he thinks they would be a cool character, not really anything else.

I think people think way too much about what Sakurai thinks. It's not that deep of a thought to throw a Roster together, especially when Sora is one of the few studios that has all it's animators and programmers working on the game before they've done much, so he can get a "This is hard to program" "We don't care much" or any sort of response from many indicators before throwing together a roster.

Krystal or not, I think Star Fox getting a 4th rep is a stretch. The series is not very prominent nowadays and only had one game deemed successful (Star Fox 64).

Star Fox 2 was actually one of the best unreleased games or games that ever needed some port to play. SF1 was just basically SF64 but worse and 3DS was better
Adventures was actually a good game and sold well and actually recently liked among the fandom (Asides from the really crazy ones who hate every starfox game yet love the series... these people exist, be warned) among other people as well, and honestly, even though it got tacked on with the SF flavor, moving it to the GameCube much like Fire Emblem and Kirby Air Ride really pleases me. Just go look at Dinosaur Planet in comparision
Assault is probably the best game in the series for the most part and a true indicator of where the series needs to go and still sold well and liked among most of the fandom.

I'm just sick of seeing this stuff with "Deemed successful". In what way? Technically if we talk about F-Zero, the only good ones are 64 and GC. Technically if we talk about Mother, the only one that's above average is Mother 3 (As much as I love the holy trio of SNES RPG's...), If we talk about Donkey Kong, the real platformer that was a hit success and not for "NOSTALGIA GOGGLES XD" is Returns. The worst part is unlike these others, StarFox can be applied to that even less. Boohoo land controls cry me a river build me a bridge and then a mansion guys

(I'm not just raving against you but in-general the thread and in-general the people who shove on about 64 like it's the best game ever)

And after Brawl most series have either been deemed complete (The only series I fully consider asides from some of the one-char ones is Kirby) or could just use one more character. She was also commented on and liked in the Brawl polls, so hey, she could make it in and be kind-of like what happened with Wolf and Melee. I always thought she'd be cool to give the SF series a starter. but I'm not the one who does this stuff.

also what i want more than krystal: starfox wii u for 2014/2015 please also get a good producer. yes or yes

 

[MagnesD3]

Well, I didn't know about that, but still, it wouldn't be too farfetched if Sakurai used the staff as a basis for a moveset, regardless of how much use it had in the original games. Smash isn't canon and we had movesets for characters made entirely from scratch.

Of course, that we can't rule out the possibility of her being a Fox clone or semi-clone, only using her staff in taunts and/or win poses, similar to Ganondorf and his sword. This would certainly be the case if she was a last-minute character.

Still don't think Star Fox warrants a 4th newcomer... Just, not yet.

But its krystals staff, everything fox learned krystal already knew, after picking it up she immediately starts using it, I wouldnt be surprised if she's had that thing her whole life, I think it fits with her not fox, making her a clone would be really dumb.

 

[Shorts]

Thanks for this. I always have a hard time breaking this to people, but its true. If anything, Fox should be using it. That said though, Zelda also didn't use Din's Fire/Nayru's Love/Farore's Wind in Zelda either, and Ness and Lucas didn't use PK Starstorm. AND Sheik never used Needles or Chains. So I guess this doesn't necessarily count against Krystal, but it is a good point.

No, the zelda example makes it not a good point. Literally people just try to throw any sort of argument against her to change someones mind. Really, there's nothing going against her. It's a matter of whether or not Sakurai is intereted in adding her. She fits every catagory a playable character needs in Sakurai's eyes. It's just a matter of if it's gonna happen or not now.

And Habenero, if you don't like Krystal, why are you even here?

 

[masterluigi1]

Despite Peach having a role as the typical damsel-in-distress, it's pretty much the main drive to the story.
Bowser kidnaps Peach, Mario defeats Bowser, Mario rescues Peach, Bowser kidnaps Peach again. It's a never-ending cycle.
It's how the Super Mario series started, and it's how it will continue, save for a few derivatives where there's other villains involved.

Take Peach out, and Bowser loses his reason for antagonism. Now we have no villain unless a new one comes out of nowhere.

Take Krystal out of a Star Fox game (after Adventures, as I don't want to make it seem like I'm being a smartass with Star Fox and Star Fox 64), and you simply lose a pilot. Big deal; either a new one comes in or we just stick with Fox/Falco/Slippy with the occasional piloting by Peppy even though he's not supposed to. We don't lose much. I mean, Star Wolf only has 3 pilots now, and it works out fine.
Oh, but Krystal is the love interest? After Adventures it is either hardly played upon (Assault), or potentially treated negatively (Command), and it's not a driving force of the Star Fox plot.

Now, I can see this being turned into a "take out Slippy, and it's no big deal either". However, take out Slippy, and you don't get health readings on bosses. This is even invoked in-game, where despite being annoying and needing saving all the time (less so after 64, or at least EVERYONE needs to be saved all the time equally), he is necessary to keep active so that you know what you're doing right and wrong against a boss.
Also, he's the team's mechanic. Take him out, and the team has no weapons or vehicles. He may not be a driving force in the plot, but he's still pretty damn important. Moreso than Falco, who's just there to serve as a hotshot pilot. Sure, he's supposedly the 2nd in command, but how often do you see Falco take leadership role?

I don't get why you are downplaying how Krystal's staff gives her the potential for a more unique move-set .

Sure Sakurai COULD turn Krystal into a clone. I mean he turned Ganon into a clone of Cpt Falcon(which makes no sense)and he could turn Fox into a clone of Mario if he wanted to.
The fact remains here that Krystal has more potential for a more unique move-set than any other star fox character in the series, including falco and Wolf because of her staff.

using a staff forces her to have completely different normal attacks than Fox, Falco, or Wolf because she doesn't fight with her hands.same way a sword user would.

the only thing that could be similar are her specials( Particularly the up and down B)

Also, Why are people here saying that Kystal has no importance?

are you seriously arguing that Slippy has more importance to star fox than Falco or even Krystal?
you even said "He may not be a driving force in the plot"

since when did not being relevant to the plot make you more important than someone that is?
slippy is not a driving force to the plot whatsoever...all slippy does is fix your ship and give you hints about the enemy etc.

falco actually has relevance to the story being Fox's rival

Krystal is Fox's love interest and has actually had a game that STARS her in it meaning she is actually relevant to the plot.

slippy has not....
neither has any other reoccurring star fox character.

Krystal is obviously the next best choice for a star fox rep, a unique one and is definately important enough to be one.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't get why you are downplaying how Krystal's staff gives her the potential for a more unique move-set .

Sure Sakurai COULD turn Krystal into a clone. I mean he turned Ganon into a clone of Cpt Falcon(which makes no sense)and he could turn Fox into a clone of Mario if he wanted to.
The fact remains here that Krystal has more potential for a more unique move-set than any other star fox character in the series, including falco and Wolf because of her staff.

using a staff forces her to have completely different normal attacks than Fox, Falco, or Wolf because she doesn't fight with her hands.same way a sword user would.

the only thing that could be similar are her specials( Particularly the up and down B)

Also, Why are people here saying that Kystal has no importance?

are you seriously arguing that Slippy has more importance to star fox than Falco or even Krystal?
you even said "He may not be a driving force in the plot"

since when did not being relevant to the plot make you more important than someone that is?
slippy is not a driving force to the plot whatsoever...all slippy does is fix your ship and give you hints about the enemy etc.

falco actually has relevance to the story being Fox's rival

Krystal is Fox's love interest and has actually had a game that STARS her in it meaning she is actually relevant to the plot.

slippy has not....
neither has any other reoccurring star fox character.

Krystal is obviously the next best choice for a star fox rep, a unique one and is definately important enough to be one.

I can take the time to point out how incorrect you really are, but it seems it would just be a waste if you really think the character who is the reason they have the damn ships in the first place is less important than the minor love interest who contributes absolutely nothing of value. Especially if you think she has a game that stars her. (Newsflash: SHE DOESN'T. There is no game where she is the star.)

Sometimes deluded Krystal fans are too deluded to be worth the hassle.

 

[masterluigi1]

I can take the time to point out how incorrect you really are, but it seems it would just be a waste if you really think the character who is the reason they have the damn ships in the first place is less important than the minor love interest who contributes absolutely nothing of value. Especially if you think she has a game that stars her. (Newsflash: SHE DOESN'T. There is no game where she is the star.)

Sometimes deluded Krystal fans are too deluded to be worth the hassle.

Let me correct you...
the reason why you won't point out how "incorrect" I am is because you can't.

you just said Slippy has no relevance to the plot yourself did you not?

Krystal has relevance...therefore she is more important

seems like you are deluded and blindly hate Krystal for no apparent reason.

also I will correct myself...she doesn't star in a game. I meant she was featured.

slippy has never been.

 

[MagnesD3]

Gosh I hope they make her B over, the attack from sfa where fox spins the staff repeatedly left then right and then you can follow up with a that overhead attack from sfa up to two times.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Gosh I hope they make her B over, the attack from sfa where fox spins the staff repeatedly left then right and then you can follow up with a that overhead attack from sfa up to two times.

Wouldn't that be more suited to a jab combo?

 

[MagnesD3]

Wouldn't that be more suited to a jab combo?

but it looks so cool :S, idk as long as its in her move list im down.

 

[masterluigi1]

I don't think four star fox reps would be too much but I don't think Krystal has much of a chance to push falco or wolf off the roster.

 

[MagnesD3]

I don't think four star fox reps would be too much but I don't think Krystal has much of a chance to push falco or wolf off the roster.

I used to want falco to be pushed out but too many people love the character so he's gotta stay, but he definitely needs a ton of tweaks to make him his own character.

 

[Deleted member]

Let me correct you...
the reason why you won't point out how "incorrect" I am is because you can't.

Oh really? Sorry to disappoint you then, since I'm about to (as fruitless as it is when people are too far in the furry hole).

you just said Slippy has no relevance to the plot yourself did you not?

No, I actually didn't. I said he wasn't a major driving force. That doesn't mean he is irrelevant to the plot.
And actually, when I said that almost six ****ing months ago, I had forgotten that like Krystal, Wolf, and Falco, Slippy too had his moments in Command's plot that were major depending on the routes chosen in the story. In fact, in the original default path before you get the "Key of Destiny" that allows you to do alternate paths in the story, Slippy is the most prevalent character other than Fox and serves as Fox's right hand man the entire path.
I had also forgotten that at some point in the plot of 64, Fox and co. had to go retrieve Slippy after the Spyborg chucked him towards Titania, so he did become a plot force there as well.

Krystal has relevance...therefore she is more important

As pointed above, relevance wasn't the point I was making. And really, if we don't count Command due to being determined non-canon by both fans and the creators, all Krystal has is being a damsel in distress in Adventures that Fox doesn't even meet until he saves her. Then after he does, the plot immediately shifts to Andross coming back as well as Falco rejoining the team and assisting Fox against the revived Andross.

seems like you are deluded and blindly hate Krystal for no apparent reason.

The reason I hate Krystal is because of obsessed fanboys like you that overstate her importance in the StarFox series and think she's special enough for Smash just because she's got a magic stick and a pair of breasts.

also I will correct myself...she doesn't star in a game. I meant she was featured.

slippy has never been.

Slippy was never featured in a game?
Then....who's that frog that's been a pilot on the titular team in every Star Fox game to date? Clearly not Slippy, since Slippy apparently has never been featured in a game before.
In other words, your "correction" made your argument worse.

And while I'm here and being sleep-deprived, I'll go ahead and get the rest from the previous post.

I don't get why you are downplaying how Krystal's staff gives her the potential for a more unique move-set .

Except I wasn't. I'm not saying she CAN'T have a unique moveset.
I'm saying that the staff DOES NOT GUARANTEE ONE LIKE PEOPLE ASSUME. The fact that Krystal is completely able to use the same type of attacks as Fox/Falco/Wolf even with the staff should be an indicator that claiming she can't be anything but unique (as multiple people have foolishly claimed)

Sure Sakurai COULD turn Krystal into a clone. I mean he turned Ganon into a clone of Cpt Falcon(which makes no sense)and he could turn Fox into a clone of Mario if he wanted to.
The fact remains here that Krystal has more potential for a more unique move-set than any other star fox character in the series, including falco and Wolf because of her staff.

"More potential" is a load of bullocks. Staff or no staff, all the Star Fox pilots have potential to be different from each other and equal potential to be similar to each other.
It's not like the only thing they can all do (except Krystal since durr staff) is shoot a blaster, speed dash, 8-directional self propulsion, and use a reflector. Assault's multiplayer mode introduced a crapton of weapons and tech for pilots to use outside a vehicle. There is enough there to give Fox, Falco, Wolf, Krystal, AND Slippy and keep them from all being the exact same.
And yet, despite all that, Falco was barely changed from the four specials and Wolf was not given anything different (not even one of his signature machine guns).
What makes Krystal so special just because of a magic staff she barely used in-game?

And what makes the staff so special that it will automatically not be used to replicate the same set of special attacks the other three go by? Does it not have a projectile that can be fired like gun? Is Krystal somehow incapable of dashing in a spiritual spurt while wielding it? Doesn't the staff have a rocket boost of sorts that can be used as self-propulsion? Isn't there a type of barrier power from it that can be turned into a method of reflection?
Ponder that for a moment.

using a staff forces her to have completely different normal attacks than Fox, Falco, or Wolf because she doesn't fight with her hands.same way a sword user would.

I already acknowledged on numerous occasions that the staff would at the very least result in another Wolf type situation, in that there is a similar premise of specials as Fox, but different normals.
And with Fox, Falco, and Wolf for the most part having different normals (especially Wolf, who cannot be compared at all in this regard), Krystal having different normals would be a given whether she used the staff or not. Though the same would apply to Slippy. Especially since his less athletic build and weaker hand combat skills makes it unfeasible to fight with normals like any of the three in Smash already.

the only thing that could be similar are her specials( Particularly the up and down B)

So Krystal is incapable of kicking while holding the staff? Quite a few of Fox's normals can easily be copied. No guarantee that they would be, but still; they easily can.
It's quite harder to imagine Slippy pulling those same attacks, though....

Since the rest is pretty much covered in the other reply, it'd be redundant to go over it again.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

masterluigi1, GoldenYuiitusin you two stop this right now! You've gone past reasonable debate and into name calling. I don't care who started it.

To be frank both Krystal and Slippy don't rank that high in importance, plot-wise. Krystal jump-started the plot of Star Fox Adventures and then immediately becomes a damsel, then has a storyline in command where she either joins the Cornerian Military or Star Wolf and Slippy invented most of the team's gadgets and is the comic relief. Fox, Wolf, Andross, Peppy, James McCloud and heck even Pigma Dengar have more importance than them (and Falco, but that's another matter).

Also I could easily see Slippy using a cloned moveset. Toon Link compensated for his dinky legs so why couldn't Slippy? And why would either of them have a cloned moveset, even with Krystal's Staff out of the picture? Especially at this point where even the clone that stayed the most similar (Falco) got new moves? A little imagination could have either of them using a new moveset with the weapons from Assault.

 

[masterluigi1]

Oh really? Sorry to disappoint you then, since I'm about to (as fruitless as it is when people are too far in the furry hole).

No need to apologize...you did as expected.

No, I actually didn't. I said he wasn't a major driving force. That doesn't mean he is irrelevant to the plot.
And actually, when I said that almost six ****ing months ago, I had forgotten that like Krystal, Wolf, and Falco, Slippy too had his moments in Command's plot that were major depending on the routes chosen in the story. In fact, in the original default path before you get the "Key of Destiny" that allows you to do alternate paths in the story, Slippy is the most prevalent character other than Fox and serves as Fox's right hand man the entire path.
I had also forgotten that at some point in the plot of 64, Fox and co. had to go retrieve Slippy after the Spyborg chucked him towards Titania, so he did become a plot force there as well.

So Slippy was a "damsel in distress"? for ONE section of 64? thats what you give as an example to put Slippy over Krystal? plot wise?

LMAO Krysal also had more stories surrounding her than Slippy did in Command.

As pointed above, relevance wasn't the point I was making. And really, if we don't count Command due to being determined non-canon by both fans and the creators, all Krystal has is being a damsel in distress in Adventures that Fox doesn't even meet until he saves her. Then after he does, the plot immediately shifts to Andross coming back as well as Falco rejoining the team and assisting Fox against the revived Andross.

Your acting like being a love interest for the main character means nothing
Krystal was the FIRST playable character in a star fox game other than fox
she actually had a game where the plot centered around her

All slippy does is engineer the ship and give some advice he simply DOES NOT move the plot along like Krystal does..this is a fact.
give me examples of how he's moved the plot along MORE than Krystal.

The reason I hate Krystal is because of obsessed fanboys like you that overstate her importance in the StarFox series and think she's special enough for Smash just because she's got a magic stick and a pair of breasts.

I could care less about why you hate Krystal, all I know right now is that this blind hate that you have towards Krystal is causing you to say some very ignorant things about the relevancy of star fox characters in general just to try and deny the fact that Krystal has a good chance.
and because of this you call me a fanboy based off of nothing.
did I state that Krystal should get in because she's a female and I'm into Furies?
did I state that because she has a staff, this solidifies her chances?

Slippy was never featured in a game?
Then....who's that frog that's been a pilot on the titular team in every Star Fox game to date? Clearly not Slippy, since Slippy apparently has never been featured in a game before.
In other words, your "correction" made your argument worse.

you, Disregarding my point by intentionally misinterpreting what I mean by "featured", doesn't make my argument any worse. Krystal had a game that centered around her, Slippy didn't...Krystal is more relevant to the overall story, Slippy isn't.

Except I wasn't. I'm not saying she CAN'T have a unique moveset.
I'm saying that the staff DOES NOT GUARANTEE ONE LIKE PEOPLE ASSUME. The fact that Krystal is completely able to use the same type of attacks as Fox/Falco/Wolf even with the staff should be an indicator that claiming she can't be anything but unique (as multiple people have foolishly claimed)

I know you never claimed this. I never said you did and I also never said she can't be anything but unique. Ganon was a clone of cptn Falcon so anything goes.
My argument is more about the "Potential" to be a clone.

"More potential" is a load of bullocks. Staff or no staff, all the Star Fox pilots have potential to be different from each other and equal potential to be similar to each other.
It's not like the only thing they can all do (except Krystal since durr staff) is shoot a blaster, speed dash, 8-directional self propulsion, and use a reflector. Assault's multiplayer mode introduced a crapton of weapons and tech for pilots to use outside a vehicle. There is enough there to give Fox, Falco, Wolf, Krystal, AND Slippy and keep them from all being the exact same.
And yet, despite all that, Falco was barely changed from the four specials and Wolf was not given anything different (not even one of his signature machine guns).
What makes Krystal so special just because of a magic staff she barely used in-game?

its not a load of bullocks
and Let me give you an example why:
lets say Roy was a star fox character
who would you say would be EASIER to make a clone of fox?
Falco or Roy?
having a staff or weapon would make it alot harder to just copy and paste fox's moveset.
Falco was more easily established as a clone because all of his moves had to be invented by sakurai and because he is a hand to hand fighter like Fox
if sakurai wanted to copy and paste Fox's moveset onto Krystal he would be forced to differentiate the moves(even if it's just by a little) because of the weapon.
This is what I mean by she has "more potential" to have a different moveset.

And what makes the staff so special that it will automatically not be used to replicate the same set of special attacks the other three go by? Does it not have a projectile that can be fired like gun? Is Krystal somehow incapable of dashing in a spiritual spurt while wielding it? Doesn't the staff have a rocket boost of sorts that can be used as self-propulsion? Isn't there a type of barrier power from it that can be turned into a method of reflection?
Ponder that for a moment.

Like I previously said...it would be harder to copy those moves to Krystal due to her weapon.

I already acknowledged on numerous occasions that the staff would at the very least result in another Wolf type situation, in that there is a similar premise of specials as Fox, but different normals.
And with Fox, Falco, and Wolf for the most part having different normals (especially Wolf, who cannot be compared at all in this regard), Krystal having different normals would be a given whether she used the staff or not. Though the same would apply to Slippy. Especially since his less athletic build and weaker hand combat skills makes it unfeasible to fight with normals like any of the three in Smash already.
my point, which you've been missing is that

The difference between the Krystal and Wolf situation is that there is no other option but to give Krystal different normals.

It's quite harder to imagine Slippy pulling those same attacks, though....

No it isn't.. it's much easier. Slippy would just have weaker versions of what Fox does.

 

[Deleted member]

So Slippy was a "damsel in distress"? for ONE section of 64? thats what you give as an example to put Slippy over Krystal? plot wise?

LMAO Krysal also had more stories surrounding her than Slippy did in Command.

Note how important it is to go save Slippy's skin. That's what happens when a character is a major part of the team and is the one that makes sure you have weapons to defend yourself with and a ship to pilot.
With Krystal it was:
"Go release the 5 Krozoa Spirits"
"Ok"
*later*
"Oh, by the way, you have to save this one chick that was too weak to do the job you're doing right now"
"Ok"
*Krozoa Spirits are released and Krystal is freed*
"HAH, surprise Fox, it was I, Andross, the whole time! Now to get my revenge!"
"Oh noes"
*Falco swoops in and helps Fox take down Andross*
"I AM DEFEATED!"
"Good to have you back, Falco"
*Everybody goes back to the Great Fox*
"Thanks for saving me"
"I think I love this almost naked chick"

Yeah, real ****ing important.

And really, Krystal having more stories about her in Command isn't saying much; not only is Command non-canon, but since Krystal is such a Base Breaker, the creators gave her more options to try to appeal to both bases. It only made things worse.

Your acting like being a love interest for the main character means nothing

*You're
And it really doesn't. Or is Candy Kong such an important character in the DKC series because she's Donkey Kong's love interest?
At the same time, you are acting like being the main reason the characters have working ships and on-foot weapons as well as being the main character's best friend since childhood means nothing.
And no matter the game, Slippy will be there as an active member of the team. The only one to do so other than Fox.
Peppy retires before Assault, Krystal takes his place, and Falco leaves before Adventures and rejoins the team around the same time Peppy retires and Krystal takes his place.

Krystal was the FIRST playable character in a star fox game other than fox

Wrong.
Peppy, Slippy, and Falco were all playable before her in Star Fox 64.

she actually had a game where the plot centered around her

The plot centered around the Krozoa Spirits and Andross' manipulation. Krystal was just an extra objective that was part of his manipulation.

All slippy does is engineer the ship and give some advice he simply DOES NOT move the plot along like Krystal does..this is a fact.

Krystal doesn't move plot along. All she's really there for is for sexual tension and to give furries something to fap to.
And engineering ships is a pretty big deal. No ships, no team Star Fox.

give me examples of how he's moved the plot along MORE than Krystal.

First give me an example of how Krystal moved the plot along at all.
Take her out of Adventures, then all that changes is that the staff never belonged to Krystal, Fox takes the Test of Observation, and Krystal isn't part of the objective.
He still releases the Krozoa Spirits (because Andross manipulated him to do so), Andross still is revived, and Fox still takes him down.

I could care less about why you hate Krystal, all I know right now is that this blind hate that you have towards Krystal is causing you to say some very ignorant things about the relevancy of star fox characters in general just to try and deny the fact that Krystal has a good chance.

Again, you're arguing a point I never made (essentially, attacking a strawman). I never said Krystal doesn't have a good chance. In fact, I've said in the past that Krystal stands as the most likely Star Fox choice if there was to be a newcomer in Smash 4 simply because of the support she has for Smash (albeit for flawed reasoning).

And quite frankly, it's not blind hate and I'm not saying ignorant things. If anything, it's the ignorance of the deluded Krystal fanboys and their blind love for the character that don't see Krystal for what she really is, going as far to say that she's the most important character after Fox himself because she's a love interest, completely ignoring the fact that the other members of the team are more important to the series as a whole. (Even if that's not what you're saying, I have seen many Krystal fans argue that)

and because of this you call me a fanboy based off of nothing.

did I state that Krystal should get in because she's a female and I'm into Furies?
did I state that because she has a staff, this solidifies her chances?

I said fanboys like you.
While you haven't given any indication that Krystal's staff and boobs means she's the number one pick (which I thank you for), I've had the displeasure of seeing most other Krystal fanboys use that kind of skewed logic.
The "overstate her importance" part though applies to you.

you, Disregarding my point by intentionally misinterpreting what I mean by "featured", doesn't make my argument any worse. Krystal had a game that centered around her, Slippy didn't...Krystal is more relevant to the overall story, Slippy isn't.

Again, the game was centered around the Krozoa Spirits and Andross' plan for revival, not Krystal.
In terms of significance to the team itself, Krystal is the least important member of the Star Fox crew.
Fox? He's the leader of the team.
Falco? He's the ace pilot, one of the reasons the team is still around. Also, he's said to be 2nd-in-command.
Slippy? He's the team's mechaninc and weapon designer. Without him, the team has no ships and no weapons.
Peppy? He's the team's oldest member (back when it was James, Peppy, and Pigma) and serves as an advisor, even when he's retired as a pilot.
Krystal? A tag-along that merely takes Peppy's place as a pilot when he retires.

I know you never claimed this. I never said you did and I also never said she can't be anything but unique. Ganon was a clone of cptn Falcon so anything goes.

My argument is more about the "Potential" to be a clone.

You said you don't get how I was downplaying the potential the staff gives her.
So yes, you did claim that. I was telling you that I wasn't downplaying the potential; just stating that it isn't a guarantee.

its not a load of bullocks

and Let me give you an example why:
lets say Roy was a star fox character
who would you say would be EASIER to make a clone of fox?
Falco or Roy?
having a staff or weapon would make it alot harder to just copy and paste fox's moveset.

Horrible example. If Roy was a Star Fox character, he wouldn't be the firey swordsman we know from Melee.
He'd be another anthromorphed animal that serves as a pilot. In which case, it'd be just as easy to turn him into a clone as it would be for Falco.

Your point is also heavily flawed.
You are tying to imply that Krystal, because she has a staff, is implausible as a clone.
Why it's flawed:
Krystal has access to Blasters, and the staff can fire flame shots in the same manner as firing a Blaster.
Krystal is not physically incapable of performing a dashing move like the Fox Illusion.
Krystal is not physically incapable of propelling herself in any given direction like the Fire Fox. The staff also has a similar technique.
Krystal has access to Reflectors, and the staff itself has a barrier power that can be used in a similar way.
Krystal is still capable of performing most of Fox's normal attacks even while holding the staff.

Falco was more easily established as a clone because all of his moves had to be invented by sakurai and because he is a hand to hand fighter like Fox

if sakurai wanted to copy and paste Fox's moveset onto Krystal he would be forced to differentiate the moves(even if it's just by a little) because of the weapon.
This is what I mean by she has "more potential" to have a different moveset.

Except that Falco isn't just a copy and paste anymore. That was only Melee and that was because he HAD to be one.
If you take a look his normal attacks in Brawl, you see that Falco was given more of a "bird" style of fighting.
None of those unique attacks can be copied by Fox, Wolf, etc. because they don't have wings or a beak. Just like how Fox and Falco can't copy Wolf's feral style because they lack claws.
Of the moves that Falco still has from Fox though, they all be given to Krystal easily. Not so much Slippy, due to not having the right body frame and athletic ability for it (and in the case of Down-Tilt, a complete lack of a tail).

Like I previously said...it would be harder to copy those moves to Krystal due to her weapon.

Let's take a look at what normal moves Fox and Falco still share, shall we?
Dash Attack: A flying kick. Krystal is completely capable of doing that.
Down Tilt: Tail swipe. Krystal is capable of doing that.
Forward Tilt: Kick a leg out. Again, she can do that.
Down Smash: Splits. Yup, she can do that.
Up Smash: Flip kick. Mmhmm.
Ledge Attack (Under 100%): Slide forward with both legs. Of course.
Ledge Attack (Over 100%): Flip kick. Yup.
Back Air: Back kick. Yes.
Up Air: Overhead vertical flip kick. Si.
Down Air: Downward drill kick. Affirmative.
Throws: Alright, this is the only time that copying would not work with Krystal if she has the staff. Only the Pummel and Forward Throw can be done, but pulling out a Blaster to do the other throws wouldn't make sense.

The difference between the Krystal and Wolf situation is that there is no other option but to give Krystal different normals.

"No other option".
LOL.

No it isn't.. it's much easier. Slippy would just have weaker versions of what Fox does.

"just have weaker versions".
Slippy can't even logically perform half the moves Fox uses.

 

[MagnesD3]

Krystal would be fun, you all know it.

 

[masterluigi1]

Note how important it is to go save Slippy's skin. That's what happens when a character is a major part of the team and is the one that makes sure you have weapons to defend yourself with and a ship to pilot.
With Krystal it was:
"Go release the 5 Krozoa Spirits"
"Ok"
*later*
"Oh, by the way, you have to save this one chick that was too weak to do the job you're doing right now"
"Ok"
*Krozoa Spirits are released and Krystal is freed*
"HAH, surprise Fox, it was I, Andross, the whole time! Now to get my revenge!"
"Oh noes"
*Falco swoops in and helps Fox take down Andross*
"I AM DEFEATED!"
"Good to have you back, Falco"
*Everybody goes back to the Great Fox*
"Thanks for saving me"
"I think I love this almost naked chick"

Yeah, real ****ing important.

And really, Krystal having more stories about her in Command isn't saying much; not only is Command non-canon, but since Krystal is such a Baseco Breaker, the creators gave her more options to try to appeal to both bases. It only made things worse.

Fox only saved Slippy right away because if he didn't he would have died and because at that time he had the power to.
neither of these apply to Krystal.
and i'm sure that if Krystal was in the same predicament Slippy was in, thatfox would save her

I only used krystal's relevance in command as an example because you used slippy's.
It doesn't matter what reasons she had for having more more stories in command than slippy.
the fact is that she did which, in turn made her more plot relevant in that game.
almost every game Krystal has been in She has held a more important role(plot wise) than slippy.

And it really doesn't. Or is Candy Kong such an important character in the DKC series because she's Donkey Kong's love interest?
At the same time, you are acting like being the main reason the characters have working ships and on-foot weapons as well as being the main character's best friend since childhood means nothing.
And no matter the game, Slippy will be there as an active member of the team. The only one to do so other than Fox.
Peppy retires before Assault, Krystal takes his place, and Falco leaves before Adventures and rejoins the team around the same time Peppy retires and Krystal takes his place.

The difference between Candy Kong and Krystal is that Candy isn't a major reoccurring character in the series, if she was then she would be more important, like Krystal is.

Being a simple mechanic on the ship is just not as important as being a recurring love interest for the main character. It's just not.
and even though Krystal has been a star fox character for a shorter time than slippy, she still has had more significant roles than him.
that says alot.

I'm not saying that being the engineer is not important to the star fox team because it is.
I was never arguing this obviously irrelevant point.

What I'm saying is that it isn't "a driving force" for the plot. being a recurring love interest is, which puts Krystal above Slippy in importance.

Wrong.
Peppy, Slippy, and Falco were all playable before her in Star Fox 64.

yea you're right but it was only in the multiplayer mode. Krystal was playable in the main story

The plot centered around the Krozoa Spirits and Andross' manipulation. Krystal was just an extra objective that was part of his manipulation.

Krystal doesn't move plot along. All she's really there for is for sexual tension and to give furries something to fap to.
And engineering ships is a pretty big deal. No ships, no team Star Fox.

First give me an example of how Krystal moved the plot along at all.
Take her out of Adventures, then all that changes is that the staff never belonged to Krystal, Fox takes the Test of Observation, and Krystal isn't part of the objective.
He still releases the Krozoa Spirits (because Andross manipulated him to do so), Andross still is revived, and Fox still takes him down.

It seems like you're not arguing that Slippy is more important to the plot than Krystal because right now all your doing is trying to prove how irrelevant Krystal is without knowing how important I think Krystal is and without telling me what puts Slippy OVER Krystal plot-wise?

you say you make no ignorant claims yet you say that all Krystal is there for is fan service?

have you ever thought that maybe instead of me "overstating" her importance that you are instead understating her importance?

Again, you're arguing a point I never made (essentially, attacking a strawman). I never said Krystal doesn't have a good chance. In fact, I've said in the past that Krystal stands as the most likely Star Fox choice if there was to be a newcomer in Smash 4 simply because of the support she has for Smash (albeit for flawed reasoning).

And quite frankly, it's not blind hate and I'm not saying ignorant things. If anything, it's the ignorance of the deluded Krystal fanboys and their blind love for the character that don't see Krystal for what she really is, going as far to say that she's the most important character after Fox himself because she's a love interest, completely ignoring the fact that the other members of the team are more important to the series as a whole. (Even if that's not what you're saying, I have seen many Krystal fans argue that)

the fact that you hate that Krystal's inclusion will give all the furries something to fap to is YOUR problem not mine
I personally could care less about what people fap to in their free time. I like Krystal because she would be an cool and unique character to play as.
whether you like it or not, Krystal being the love interest makes her more relevant to the plot than slippy is.
I never stated that Krystal is Super important plot wise all I was doing was replying to many of the people here who say that Krystal has no importance. Which is just false.
she has shown to drive the plot more than slippy has also.

Again, the game was centered around the Krozoa Spirits and Andross' plan for revival, not Krystal.
In terms of significance to the team itself, Krystal is the least important member of the Star Fox crew.
Fox? He's the leader of the team.
Falco? He's the ace pilot, one of the reasons the team is still around. Also, he's said to be 2nd-in-command.
Slippy? He's the team's mechaninc and weapon designer. Without him, the team has no ships and no weapons.
Peppy? He's the team's oldest member (back when it was James, Peppy, and Pigma) and serves as an advisor, even when he's retired as a pilot.
Krystal? A tag-along that merely takes Peppy's place as a pilot when he retires.

As I said previously, Slippy being the engineer is an irrelevant point.
I'm talking about plot relevance.

You said you don't get how I was downplaying the potential the staff gives her.
So yes, you did claim that. I was telling you that I wasn't downplaying the potential; just stating that it isn't a guarantee.

this statement makes no sense...
how does me, claiming that you were downplaying the potential a staff gives her mean that I said she can only be unique?

and why do I have to repeat myself...
I said in every post I made to you that:
"Sure Sakurai COULD turn Krystal into a clone. I mean he turned Ganon into a clone of Cpt Falcon(which makes no sense)and he could turn Fox into a clone of Mario if he wanted to."
my point is that it is way harder to differentiate Krystal from Fox than it is to do Falco from Fox because of her weapon.

Horrible example. If Roy was a Star Fox character, he wouldn't be the firey swordsman we know from Melee.
He'd be another anthromorphed animal that serves as a pilot. In which case, it'd be just as easy to turn him into a clone as it would be for Falco.

Your point is also heavily flawed.
You are tying to imply that Krystal, because she has a staff, is implausible as a clone.
Why it's flawed:
Krystal has access to Blasters, and the staff can fire flame shots in the same manner as firing a Blaster.
Krystal is not physically incapable of performing a dashing move like the Fox Illusion.
Krystal is not physically incapable of propelling herself in any given direction like the Fire Fox. The staff also has a similar technique.
Krystal has access to Reflectors, and the staff itself has a barrier power that can be used in a similar way.
Krystal is still capable of performing most of Fox's normal attacks even while holding the staff.

it isn't a bad example and my point isn't flawed because you missed my point.
when did I imply that she was "implausible" as a clone
she could certainly become a clone.(as i've stated many times -_- )

My point is that because she is a weapon user(like roy) it would be HARDER to copy and paste Fox's moveset to her than Falco or wolf.
thats why she has more "potential" for a unique move-set than any other star fox character in the series.

Because she is a weapon user.

you're basically saying that link, marth, or roy have the same "POTENTIAL" to become a clone of fox than Falco or wolf do, which makes no sense.

Except that Falco isn't just a copy and paste anymore. That was only Melee and that was because he HAD to be one.
If you take a look his normal attacks in Brawl, you see that Falco was given more of a "bird" style of fighting.
None of those unique attacks can be copied by Fox, Wolf, etc. because they don't have wings or a beak. Just like how Fox and Falco can't copy Wolf's feral style because they lack claws.
Of the moves that Falco still has from Fox though, they all be given to Krystal easily. Not so much Slippy, due to not having the right body frame and athletic ability for it (and in the case of Down-Tilt, a complete lack of a tail).

You're missing my point again ... it's "EASIER" to clone fox to Falco than it is to clone Fox to a weapon user like Krystal.

Let's take a look at what normal moves Fox and Falco still share, shall we?
Dash Attack: A flying kick. Krystal is completely capable of doing that.
Down Tilt: Tail swipe. Krystal is capable of doing that.
Forward Tilt: Kick a leg out. Again, she can do that.
Down Smash: Splits. Yup, she can do that.
Up Smash: Flip kick. Mmhmm.
Ledge Attack (Under 100%): Slide forward with both legs. Of course.
Ledge Attack (Over 100%): Flip kick. Yup.
Back Air: Back kick. Yes.
Up Air: Overhead vertical flip kick. Si.
Down Air: Downward drill kick. Affirmative.
Throws: Alright, this is the only time that copying would not work with Krystal if she has the staff. Only the Pummel and Forward Throw can be done, but pulling out a Blaster to do the other throws wouldn't make sense.

this is a horrible attempt at a move-set because it completely undermines the inclusion of a staff in the first place. you might as well take the staff out all together.

the point of giving Krystal a staff is for her to use it, if she doesn't use it then there is no point in giving her one.

"No other option".
LOL.

yes...copying a hand to hand user moveset to a weapon user moveset would give no other other option but to differentiate the normals even if it's by a little.

"just have weaker versions".
Slippy can't even logically perform half the moves Fox uses.

so slippy can't shoot a lazer?
he can't have a reflector?
he can't boost up with a flame?
he can't dash like fox illusion
he can't hold a reflector?

how is Slippy incapable of doing any of these tasks?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Krystal would be fun, you all know it.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Slippy?
The last thing this series needs when it comes to Smash Bros is more adoring to Star Fox 64. Say all you want about it but it's been three games with four stages of ships and characters that are mostly inspired from it.
I don't get what's with all the random Krystal hate all the sudden. This is worse than when I made my gigantic "Wolf > Krystal/Falco" case in the other thread.

View attachment 762

but she would be fun to play as this series does great making starfox characters fun to play as and more interesting than their original titles

also +1 for you using one of the only three good characters in persona 3

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Would be stop arguing, it's just opinions GoldenY and Masterluigi, GoldenY if you don't support Krystal then why are you arguing on this thread, sure there are some characters I don't want to see, but I don't rub it in people's faces. Anyways, I support Krystal, and let's just leave it at that. Can you please stop arguing if Krystal warrants a spot. I meant can you just wait for E3.

Also, I feel if they did make a new SF game, they should try to be like KI Uprising, it pretty much does what SF Assault does but better

 

[Thirdkoopa]

You know, Krystal would actually be a good starter for the series if Falco isn't. Falco/Wolf (Esp the latter) always felt more "Unlockable" to me while Krystal would probably be the best starting character to add with Fox for the three.

 

[MagnesD3]

View attachment 762

hater

Would be stop arguing, it's just opinions GoldenY and Masterluigi, GoldenY if you don't support Krystal then why are you arguing on this thread, sure there are some characters I don't want to see, but I don't rub it in people's faces. Anyways, I support Krystal, and let's just leave it at that. Can you please stop arguing if Krystal warrants a spot. I meant can you just wait for E3.

Also, I feel if they did make a new SF game, they should try to be like KI Uprising, it pretty much does what SF Assault does but better

If I got a star fox wii u I would cry tears of blood.

 

[FalKoopa]

Krystal would be fun, you all know it.

The way you worded the statement gives it multiple meanings.

 

[MagnesD3]

The way you worded the statement gives it multiple meanings.

Oh dear,

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Are we talking about who warrants a spot for Star Fox in Super Smash Bros. 4 again?

The correct answer, is Fox, Falco, and Wolf. No more, no less.

 

[MagnesD3]

Are we talking about who warrants a spot for Star Fox in Super Smash Bros. 4 again?

The correct answer, is Fox, Falco, and Wolf. No more, no less.

Wrong... Krystal should have been in brawl, honestly if you wanna get picky about it, all that should rep star fox should be fox and wolf. But luckily this is smash bros. and its not the hardest thing to get into sakurai isnt that dang picky or else we wouldnt have several other members of the cast that we have, I mean based on being picky we might as well cut peach since all she acts as is a damsel in distress, krystal offers a great moveset and is the optimal next choice for the star fox lineup, she is clearly a great choice for the game and if we ever get another darn star fox game she will be apart of it.

 

[FalKoopa]

Wrong... Krystal should have been in brawl, honestly if you wanna get picky about it, all that should rep star fox should be fox and wolf. But luckily this is smash bros. and its not the hardest thing to get into sakurai isnt that dang picky or else we wouldnt have several other members of the cast that we have, I mean based on being picky we might as well cut peach since all she acts as is a damsel in distress.

To be fair Peach's role >> Krystal's role.

And Sakurai will have to be picky this time since there will be less newcomers.

 

[MagnesD3]

To be fair Peach's role >> Krystal's role.

And Sakurai will have to be picky this time since there will be less newcomers.

The only

To be fair Peach's role >> Krystal's role.

And Sakurai will have to be picky this time since there will be less newcomers.

Well we honestly dont know that for sure, he could add as many as he wants or decide to make two separate rosters for the 3ds and wii u, that way even more character than normal make it and you could use the link functionality between you wii u and 3ds somehow to unlock the characters you dont have on each version (via mario golf style), we dont know anything, 8 more days we can actually say something that may have a little more credit.

And for peach yeah its not the best example but we could easily cut her if we just wanted to make it about the all stars from each game, she doesnt do anything in the mario brothers series except get kidnapped, lets also cut ness, captain falcon, jiggilypuff, diddy kong, captain olimar and several other not very important characters since they arent the main character of a popular nintendo franchise, If we get too picky its ridiculous, but Im not saying I want something to lenient as well or otherwise characters like goomba, redeads, magikarp, goku, spongebob, and the deku tree could be characters.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

One thing's for sure, if she is in the rage will be delicious

Just like they all told me that a 3DS Smash Bros was impossible.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

You guys really went far with Sakurai's quote of "There may be less this time around" which is more equal to "We need to do more with the series". I don't feel like going into more but Krystal isn't that picky of a pick. It's a 50/50 if you ask me. Either Sakurai thinks "Oh hey, interesting" or "Oh hey, we've already capped". Nothing less, nothing more.

One thing's for sure, if she is in the rage will be delicious

Just like they all told me that a 3DS Smash Bros was impossible.

I can understand them saying Smash GBA or DS was a dumb idea, especially since those wouldn't be able to run it, but 3DS ones were just out of their mind ruling it out. I think someone got a full speed Melee running on 3DS; I'll see if I can find that again.

 

[FalKoopa]

You guys really went far with Sakurai's quote of "There may be less this time around" which is more equal to "We need to do more with the series". I don't feel like going into more but Krystal isn't that picky of a pick. It's a 50/50 if you ask me. Either Sakurai thinks "Oh hey, interesting" or "Oh hey, we've already capped". Nothing less, nothing more.

I know that, but I think people are just exaggerating her importance (particularly saying that she should have been in Brawl). That's my major qualm.

I not against her inclusion at all, btw.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I know that, but I think people are just exaggerating her importance (particularly saying that she should have been in Brawl). That's my major qualm.

I not against her inclusion at all, btw.

Yeah, I agree with you there FK. (FirstKoopa, FalKoopa. You are now FirstKoopa!) - People are REALLY exaggerating her importance from what I've seen in the arguments. Sure, she's important, but not all that much.

Yeah same here; I really like the idea of finally getting another SF starting character and I think Sakurai and the others could do a good spin on her.

 

[MagnesD3]

Yeah, I agree with you there FK. (FirstKoopa, FalKoopa. You are now FirstKoopa!) - People are REALLY exaggerating her importance from what I've seen in the arguments. Sure, she's important, but not all that much.

Yeah same here; I really like the idea of finally getting another SF starting character and I think Sakurai and the others could do a good spin on her.

Like... a spinning staff

 

[Shorts]

Sometimes deluded Krystal fans are too deluded to be worth the hassle.

So leave. This thread is for Krystal fans to come and discuss Krystal's possible appearence in Smash. I don't see why you or Habenero need to be in here if all you're going to do is be anti-Krystal.

This clearly isn't your thread.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Anyways, I don't think she was important enough for Brawl, but the way I see it, she's a good candidate for Sm4sh. Sakurai adds the people who didn't fit well, in the last game, but will fit in with the next. This is proven by Bowser, King Dedede and etc.

 

[FalKoopa]

I don't see why you or Habenero need to be in here if all you're going to do is be anti-Krystal.

This clearly isn't your thread.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeell, we are allowed to express our opinions, are we not?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeell, we are allowed to express our opinions, are we not?

True, but it's a little weird they expect to change minds. Especially when it degrades into insults.