Data Prepare Yourself (Ike Match-up thread)

[⑨ball]

Any critique is of course welcome.

There was definitely some improvement like the lack of random counters, that one ledge trump attempt, and baiting air dodges, but you're still playing like you don't have a sword among a few other really strange things.

There are a lot of things you can touch up on, but for now I'd recommend taking a break from matches and learning the ranges on your attacks. If nothing else, you should never be getting hit by an UpB when trying to edgeguard with Eruption.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Obvious first picks would be Delfino and Halberd for the low ceilings. I've been looking into Kongo Jungle 64, Duck Hunt and Castle Siege lately too since I'm pretty surprised they're more often than not legal.

Thoughts?

Well for one with a few of Ike's nerfs he isn't as good on Delphino and here is why!
1. D-Air is no longer strong when sweet spotted so you most likely will not kill your opponent, or you sour spot and they somehow D-Air you and kill you.

2. Ike may be strong with platforms but take into consideration the difficulty of getting off of platforms in this game combined with shield stun from pressure below you.

3. A lot of characters now have killing B-Throws so that literally would body Ike on most transformations with close sides.

Halberd!
1. Halberd would be wonderful if Ike's U-Smash actually killed like it used to. But I've noticed U-Tilt is more useful.
2. Any character with a killing U-Throw can and will gain the lead or make the game even using this killing throw, and Ike does not have one except D-Throw with rage at around 150.
3. Characters that have stronger U-Smashes... <-

Kongo Jungle
1. This has to be one of the most solid CP's for Ike except vs characters like Sonic who again, kill from B-Throw.
2. Characters with strong and quick aerials mostly B-Air would kill Ike on this stage but the same can be said about Ike's B-Air.
3. This stage is probably the best vs Diddy in my opinion though, the ceiling explains it all.

Duck Hunt
1. The tree.... If someone camps Ike on the tree he cannot do much.

Castle Siege
1. This stage wasn't good for him in brawl because of how long all of his moves extend and allow for hard punishes at higher percents.
2. His recovery
3. Camping characters that thrive when frames are extended. (Like Olimar)

I can go in depth more just ask me.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Alright, I took your advice and implemented a few new tactics. I stopped using easy-to-read moves like FTilt, tried to gimp him a little better, and use Eruption from the side. Here's what happened today when I faced Rayquaza07's Little Mac. Keep in mind I think I got a bit better near the end if you'd rather watch the last few videos.

http://youtu.be/WC-oGNyea5w
http://youtu.be/Il5AoYgwdCM
http://youtu.be/lyVhAt62g2c
http://youtu.be/dVyFAaoZgTM
http://youtu.be/61k7NiGAeEE
http://youtu.be/zkeY2qWHaRA
http://youtu.be/Tg8iCCz3D88
http://youtu.be/5mJixGPlTHE
http://youtu.be/2gkiVqOomWs
http://youtu.be/wOMxRYBgtXg
http://youtu.be/UzKLaiqlBOU
http://youtu.be/SMrYT5-w6yc
http://youtu.be/Pl08qq1HN3I

Any critique is of course welcome.

Keep in mind vs Mac your B-Throw makes him panic and you can counter his up b for an early kill.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Can you explain why Lylat isn't? I understand the blastzones at the sides can be kinda lame, also with the stage tilting lol, but don't platforms usually help Ike out??

Like I said above when Ike is pressured on a platform it is difficult for him to remove himself from it, shield pressure is very strong on this game so when someone is below you hitting your shield you may not be able to drop down and B-Air as you usually would. Also! Don't you think the close blast zones make some of the higher tier characters more willing to travel offstage to finish our stocks?

 

[Opana]

Just noticed durango mentioned me, messhia_dark lol. I was googling my name looking for something and this popped up, pretty cool.

Who are you on there?

 

[⑨ball]

Well for one with a few of Ike's nerfs he isn't as good on Delphino and here is why!
1. D-Air is no longer strong when sweet spotted so you most likely will not kill your opponent, or you sour spot and they somehow D-Air you and kill you.

2. Ike may be strong with platforms but take into consideration the difficulty of getting off of platforms in this game combined with shield stun from pressure below you.

3. A lot of characters now have killing B-Throws so that literally would body Ike on most transformations with close sides.

1.I haven't been getting nearly as many dair spikes as I used to, but it's mainly just been me missing the sweetspot which I can up my game on. And with Smash 4 having a new set of defensive options I've been playing a more fortress-esque game. Having someone in the water and reacting to their attempts to escape has done pretty well for me.

2. I have. It's pretty rough for Ike, and I find myself resetting to neutral more often than going for the bair(Especially vs Sheik).
But we're going to have to deal with platforms anyway on Battlefield, yeah? Might as well take this with the plus that transformations let us get a little lenient in edgeuarding and recovery tactics.

3. I'm still surprised by how many bthrows kill in this game. That said, close sides help with bair and fair kills too. It's a trade off that comes down to the better player that I'll take every time.

Halberd!
1. Halberd would be wonderful if Ike's U-Smash actually killed like it used to. But I've noticed U-Tilt is more useful.
2. Any character with a killing U-Throw can and will gain the lead or make the game even using this killing throw, and Ike does not have one except D-Throw with rage at around 150.
3. Characters that have stronger U-Smashes... <-

We obviously want to be careful about who we cp to where. I'm not taking Diddy to any stage that helps him kill earlier with his bnb, but Sheiks uair game has been hurting since the patch, so I feel like it's a pretty decent stage to take her to.

Kongo Jungle
1. This has to be one of the most solid CP's for Ike except vs characters like Sonic who again, kill from B-Throw.
2. Characters with strong and quick aerials mostly B-Air would kill Ike on this stage but the same can be said about Ike's B-Air.
3. This stage is probably the best vs Diddy in my opinion though, the ceiling explains it all.

I agree with all of this. I'm also not ashamed or afraid to time the **** out of Sonic or any character in general I don't want to chase around. Sonic's options while I'm on either platform don't really worry me, and the two platforms in the middle let me move around well enough avoid him entirely or force really risky stuff.

Duck Hunt
1. The tree.... If someone camps Ike on the tree he cannot do much.

I know about this all too well. It's actually where I take Little Mac(and do the same thing) because he has the same problem only with a worse air game.

Castle Siege
1. This stage wasn't good for him in brawl because of how long all of his moves extend and allow for hard punishes at higher percents.
2. His recovery
3. Camping characters that thrive when frames are extended. (Like Olimar)
I can go in depth more just ask me.

Actually haven't seen too many Olimars(he got bodied with only 3 pikmen), but the rest seems plausible. I was just thinking that the extended hitboxes would hurt characters that rely on fair spacing more than Ike like Ness(although we definitely have to watch out for that bthrow) or maybe even Sheik.

I really wish Ike could do something about tree camping. I really like DH other than that. What neutrals have you been using for Sonic? Town and City I imagine.

 

[NeoArcadiaX_SM]

Like I said above when Ike is pressured on a platform it is difficult for him to remove himself from it, shield pressure is very strong on this game so when someone is below you hitting your shield you may not be able to drop down and B-Air as you usually would. Also! Don't you think the close blast zones make some of the higher tier characters more willing to travel offstage to finish our stocks?

You make a good point, I will keep that in mind, thanks friend!

 

[Planet God Venus]

1.I haven't been getting nearly as many dair spikes as I used to, but it's mainly just been me missing the sweetspot which I can up my game on. And with Smash 4 having a new set of defensive options I've been playing a more fortress-esque game. Having someone in the water and reacting to their attempts to escape has done pretty well for me.

2. I have. It's pretty rough for Ike, and I find myself resetting to neutral more often than going for the bair(Especially vs Sheik).
But we're going to have to deal with platforms anyway on Battlefield, yeah? Might as well take this with the plus that transformations let us get a little lenient in edgeuarding and recovery tactics.

3. I'm still surprised by how many bthrows kill in this game. That said, close sides help with bair and fair kills too. It's a trade off that comes down to the better player that I'll take every time.


We obviously want to be careful about who we cp to where. I'm not taking Diddy to any stage that helps him kill earlier with his bnb, but Sheiks uair game has been hurting since the patch, so I feel like it's a pretty decent stage to take her to.


I agree with all of this. I'm also not ashamed or afraid to time the **** out of Sonic or any character in general I don't want to chase around. Sonic's options while I'm on either platform don't really worry me, and the two platforms in the middle let me move around well enough avoid him entirely or force really risky stuff.


I know about this all too well. It's actually where I take Little Mac(and do the same thing) because he has the same problem only with a worse air game.



Actually haven't seen too many Olimars(he got bodied with only 3 pikmen), but the rest seems plausible. I was just thinking that the extended hitboxes would hurt characters that rely on fair spacing more than Ike like Ness(although we definitely have to watch out for that bthrow) or maybe even Sheik.

I really wish Ike could do something about tree camping. I really like DH other than that. What neutrals have you been using for Sonic? Town and City I imagine.

I beat Manny and 6WX on Town and City lost on Battlefield vs Manny and Lost on Delphino vs 6WX.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Probably player errors but I could win on the stages most likely.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

So do we have a good sense of who Ike really does well against vs who he has problems with? I feel like we're gonna need to re-format the OP of this thread once we have our thoughts documented in a nicer, more organized fashion.

 

[PyroTakun]

So do we have a good sense of who Ike really does well against vs who he has problems with? I feel like we're gonna need to re-format the OP of this thread once we have our thoughts documented in a nicer, more organized fashion.

Yeah, I haven't been updating the OP for quite a while and I'm sure most of the info is pre-patch advice. I'll definitely change it once we get more solid info.

 

[MiloniVanili]

i recently played against a good ness and it was an extremely upsetting experience, does anyone have advice? it seems like ike is too slow to deal with him. i would probably switch to marth/pit/sheik if i play against him again unless there is some trick i couldnt figure out

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Ness is such a rough match-up...I usually play by staying in the air as much as I can, and pretty much just out of his reach. Just jumping around throwing Nair and Fair's out when I can. Catch him with a Dtilt and just combo him til he gets out. Keep your distance cause that back throw of his is just over the top...and watch out for the PK fire, it's a great way to get caught in a grab. Use counter when you can, since his attacks all do pretty decent damage, especially his aerials. I know it's not the best advice, but you just have to play patiently. Best of luck to ya!

 

[Duck SMASH!]

I always have a tough time with Marth and Lucina. It's not the range. Ike's sword obviously is longer than both.
It's their speed and grabs that get me. Not to mention their edgeguarding. >.>
And though counter works against stuff like shield breaker and Fsmash, it only works like once. After that they bait my counters and go in for a grab.
I do not know how to do retreating SH Fairs or Nairs consistently to answer any SH Fairs from Marth. That doesn't help either.
It may be because I am not very good with Ike or the fact that my wi fi suffers from awful lag, but marth and Lucina (especially marth) tend to destroy my Ike, plain and simple.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I always have a tough time with Marth and Lucina. It's not the range. Ike's sword obviously is longer than both.
It's their speed and grabs that get me. Not to mention their edgeguarding. >.>
And though counter works against stuff like shield breaker and Fsmash, it only works like once. After that they bait my counters and go in for a grab.
I do not know how to do retreating SH Fairs or Nairs consistently to answer any SH Fairs from Marth. That doesn't help either.
It may be because I am not very good with Ike or the fact that my wi fi suffers from awful lag, but marth and Lucina (especially marth) tend to destroy my Ike, plain and simple.

I understand your pain, those two always give me a run for my money. Good Marth players are not to be trifled with. I find that baiting them into attacking or countering works well. Jump in, fast fall just out of their range, or run in with a shield. If the Marth/Lucina player abuse the counter, just play the waiting game. Hold your smash attack a little longer, buffer the Fair, wait to release the quick draw etc. Keep your distance though, those characters don't have quite the same range as Ike, so it's good to stay back. Be very careful though, especially against Marth cause of that tipper effect.

 

[RE-DAZ]

Guys I'm having bad moments against Luigi and ness, one grab at high percent and gone. Any ideas?

 

[PyroTakun]

Guys I'm having bad moments against Luigi and ness, one grab at high percent and gone. Any ideas?

I play against Boss's Luigi often enough, so I'll throw in some advice:

This MU is balls if the Luigi player knows what they're doing; all of his attacks come out quick (or at least quicker than yours) and you're straight combo food. I don't recommend approaching, but if you have to, mix it up with dash into shield cancels, N-Airs, F-Airs, and B-Airs if you can. If you space/ time it right, your N-Airs and F-Airs will eat fireballs that Luigi throws out.

Spacing is everything; Luigi has really good combos on Ike and extremely fast attacks, but very little range and disjoint in comparison to Ike. If Luigi gets a grab he easily gets 2-3 hits on you out of his D-Throw, and can even do stupid combos like D-Throw into Tornado, or D-Throw into Shoryuken. So again, spacing is everything. In addition to the N-Airs, F-Airs, and B-Airs, D-Tilt and Jab 1 are you friends. If he throws out his dash attack make sure you shield ALL of it, and proceed to either Jab, grab, D-Tilt or SH+B-Air (everything else is too slow.)

As for the off-stage game, it's best not to chase Luigi since he can easily gimp you and make it back to the stage. (His recovery is insane.) However, if he's forced to use his Side-B to get back on the stage you can get away with going for a F-Air or D-Air since his missle has so much ending lag to it.

TL;DR
Don't get hit, and space everything

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

With all due respect, I feel this board greatly, severely underestimates the Little Mac matchup. 7-3, maybe 8-2. The similarity between Ike and other characters is the strategy is the same: BThrow into aerial to gimp Little Mac for a quick kill.

The difference is that Ike is more punishable on his moves, has a larger hitbox, and even Little Mac can counter his range with priority attacks. DTilt DTilt KO Punch is a surefire combo. DTilt is Little Mac's everything. It's equivalent to Ike's own jab against anyone else in the game. Plus Little Mac players are learning to recover awkwardly low when BThrown off the stage, making it difficult to land an attack to gimp with, such as Fair or the more narrow Bair. Plus he goes low enough to stop your Counter attempts on the edge.

And it's not even about gimping him. It's about whether or not you can land a hit on him in the first place. His Smashes and Ftilt will go through everything you have, he will track down your landing and punish it, ducking under Bair attempts, Counter is a free Smash to him, and you have no projectiles to stop his KO punch, making it easy for him to land one on you on a simple punished mistake.

Ike's best, long-ranged moves are DTilt, Bair, and Fair, all of which can be outranged or outpriotized with a punish. If you try to setup a "wall" to keep him from approaching, Little Macs also have Side B to surprise your DTilt. I have more videos coming up on the Video Critique Thread, so feel free to check them out.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

With all due respect: Its just you playing against somebody who really knows Ike well and you not handling the MU well at all.

 

[PyroTakun]

The Little Mac MU is nowhere near that bad. I honestly feel like it's about 50-50; it comes down to whoever plays safer and gets more punishes on the other player.

Try to edgeguard Mac with Eruption if you can't get any off-stage aerials to hit. On stage you'll want to do a lot of shield grabbing and SH+BAir OoS. Retreating aerials and boosted pivot grabs are highly recommended as well.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Little Mac is a troublesome character for Ike, no doubt about it, but Ike excels where Little Mac doesn't: in the air. What good are all of Mac's smash attacks if he can't reach his opponent?

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

His USmash has a surprisingly high arc.

 

[san.]

Mac also seems to be pretty easy to juggle, but I personally don't really want to wrack up his damage too quickly since Ike seems easy to hit with KO punch.

Unfortunately, Ike probably wins from platform camping, juggling, and offstage, but Ike would have trouble with landing and combating some attacks directly (though better than some other characters). Lack of projectile and commitment on attacks makes KO punch deadly. I think if you aren't gimping Mac, you just aren't comfortable enough offstage rather than lacking options. Mac can't go too low offstage since you can just attack him to force an air dodge and aether his upB. Mac goes high and he can just be attacked directly, optimally at a spot where counter won't hit.

I think we have a small-medium advantage overall when played as dumb as possible. It's probably even or slight disadvantage on FD (Ike gets beat up, but has powerful throw, juggle, and gimp options). I know that I'm probably not going to play optimally and therefore may have trouble against the occasional Mac lol.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I've never juggled a Little Mac, largely due to the ones I face manage his great aerial movement and just manage to weave out of harm's way by going through me or evading me altogether. On landing, they have no landing lag and go right into jabs or DSmash to punish my landing.

 

[san.]

We have better air speed and there's nothing to worry about except for nair and counter, leaving only generic escape options. It is good if he can get to the ground without attacking or dodging so he can land with little lag ASAP.

 

[Kimchi]

I'm looking at Little Mac's moveset and none of his aerials seem to help him get back to the ground safely against Ike's Nair since they all seem to have shorter range, meaning a rational Little Mac player should be AVOIDING you to get back onto the stage safely to avoid frame traps. If he's goes through you, it has to be because you're letting him. Consider all the options you have to punish Little Mac when he's above you: Nair (the best one since the hitbox lingers for so long and you can punish aerial dodges easy), Utilt, SH FF Uair, etc.

What I'm getting at here is that the only way he'd make it back to the stage safely when you're right under him would be because you're whiffing punishes and getting the timing wrong or he uses his counter. He has to use his aerials or counter if you're right under him and we all know aerial dodge will have landing lag, which you should be able to punish easily.

EDIT: Long explanation of what san said.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Faced Rayquaza07 again. He can actually smack you in the face with Side B too if you try to hop up to him after a DThrow/UThrow, so gotta mix up the defense.

 

[RE-DAZ]

ive played bad and good lil macs and ill say that you just need to play safely on the edge, of course they know you will try to gmp so what you have to do is mindgame him, doing some approaches wracking up little damage and make him follow you to the edge so you can try to gimp. Being patiently and baiting out that DownB, so its just like you jump, they counter, you wait and using your second jump to attack Fair or Bair and recover.
Respecting little mac and spacing will make that MU easier, hope to help.

 

[Sol0ke]

Who do you think the Ike-Little Mac matchup is in favor of?

 

[san.]

My biggest problem with MUs is that it only accounts for top levels of play, and we're not there yet. That's why our personal experiences aren't really going to hold much weight. I think it's good to discuss actual strategies though vs. the interpretation of how those strategies play out.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Who do you think the Ike-Little Mac matchup is in favor of?

Little Mac just because of the way he punishes your everything. Ike's only advantages are the same as anyone else without a projectile. Bait, punish, and rely on gimping. You have very, very limited windows to punish anything he does out of shield, while he can punish you from the other side of the screen just for breathing wrong.

USmash is the only thing you can truly punish OoS, and that's only if he hit close. If he hit spaced and you go in, he'll punish you for trying to punish him. Ike also lacks good launching options that go horizontal. FTilt is a big no-no, Bair gives him a vertical leverage he can use to recover back, BThrow doesn't launch him far enough, jab also gives him the vertical angle advantage, and any of your other moves are just too slow and punishable to even consider.

Lastly, your spacing means nothing to him. You're not going to win an exchange due to his reach. You can't expect he's just going to FTilt into your DTilt and get a free hit. They have a much easier time looking for ways to punish you off of the wrong hit, including with a dash-pivot FSmash, which not only shifts his hitbox away, but returns with a very powerful hit, can't be punished on shield, and has little to no hitlag. Plus, anytime he gets a KO punch charged, you're in danger. DTilt, DTilt, KO Punch can one-shot you from 0% and there's no way out of it, either.

Right now, your best bet is to have Info Sharing set to On so maybe, just maybe if Sakurai is feeling generous when Mewtwo comes out, he can review the data and give the game a balance patch.

 

[Locuan]

Hey guys! We are currently discussing the Ike Match-Up on the Marth Match-Up Thread. It would be awesome if you could help us out! Thanks!

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Man, Sheik...I don't even know where to begin with this nightmare.

>Fair combo, which leads to gimping and is difficult to escape
>Fair is extremely fast, you can't trade with hers.
>Can punish you from anywhere on the screen.
>Gimping game is a nightmare. Has probably more opportune chances to gimp or stage-spike you than anyone else in the game because of Vanish's large hitbox and multiple Fairs
>Bouncing Fish (Down B) from out of nowhere
>Punishes your every move or landing even if she's across the stage from you
>Is hard to punish herself.
>Bair and Fair have insane startup frames
>Grab range is better than yours

Had a bad night with this one.

 

[PyroTakun]

Man, Sheik...I don't even know where to begin with this nightmare.

>Fair combo, which leads to gimping and is difficult to escape
>Fair is extremely fast, you can't trade with hers.
>Can punish you from anywhere on the screen.
>Gimping game is a nightmare. Has probably more opportune chances to gimp or stage-spike you than anyone else in the game because of Vanish's large hitbox and multiple Fairs
>Bouncing Fish (Down B) from out of nowhere
>Punishes your every move or landing even if she's across the stage from you
>Is hard to punish herself.
>Bair and Fair have insane startup frames
>Grab range is better than yours

Had a bad night with this one.

This MU is actually extremely difficult for me as well. Her F-Tilts and F-Airs combo into themselves and she just racks up damage on Ike with no problems at all. I wouldn't mind re-visiting this MU at all.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I posted a few matches in the video critique thread if you want to check em out.

 

[LionMagnus]

Little Mac just because of the way he punishes your everything. Ike's only advantages are the same as anyone else without a projectile. Bait, punish, and rely on gimping. You have very, very limited windows to punish anything he does out of shield, while he can punish you from the other side of the screen just for breathing wrong.

USmash is the only thing you can truly punish OoS, and that's only if he hit close. If he hit spaced and you go in, he'll punish you for trying to punish him. Ike also lacks good launching options that go horizontal. FTilt is a big no-no, Bair gives him a vertical leverage he can use to recover back, BThrow doesn't launch him far enough, jab also gives him the vertical angle advantage, and any of your other moves are just too slow and punishable to even consider.

Lastly, your spacing means nothing to him. You're not going to win an exchange due to his reach. You can't expect he's just going to FTilt into your DTilt and get a free hit. They have a much easier time looking for ways to punish you off of the wrong hit, including with a dash-pivot FSmash, which not only shifts his hitbox away, but returns with a very powerful hit, can't be punished on shield, and has little to no hitlag. Plus, anytime he gets a KO punch charged, you're in danger. DTilt, DTilt, KO Punch can one-shot you from 0% and there's no way out of it, either.

Right now, your best bet is to have Info Sharing set to On so maybe, just maybe if Sakurai is feeling generous when Mewtwo comes out, he can review the data and give the game a balance patch.

You speak with such negativity on your MU opinion sir xD. From my personal experience I never had that much trouble with Mac (granted I also play Mac myself), and no, KO punch does not kill you at 0% I've survived quite a few of them being at low percent (under 30). It is kind of how it is when you go up against a fast character with Ike, it's hard to punish them but doesn't mean it's impossible, just gotta find ways to trick your oppoenent and be a step ahead of them.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

You speak with such negativity on your MU opinion sir xD. From my personal experience I never had that much trouble with Mac (granted I also play Mac myself), and no, KO punch does not kill you at 0% I've survived quite a few of them being at low percent (under 30). It is kind of how it is when you go up against a fast character with Ike, it's hard to punish them but doesn't mean it's impossible, just gotta find ways to trick your oppoenent and be a step ahead of them.

I played a few awesome players who know their spacing well. Plus it's not KO punch at 0%, it's DTilt, DTilt, and then KO Punch. That's inescapable.

 

[Yoh]

Litte Mac is definitely not a problem for Ike.

And its okay that some of his moves are hard to punish, because everytime he gets thrown offstage it could be his last stock.
This is no specific problem to Ike.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Litte Mac is definitely not a problem for Ike.

And its okay that some of his moves are hard to punish, because everytime he gets thrown offstage it could be his last stock.
This is no specific problem to Ike.

He still can punish everything you do. Your game is limited to:

-Staying on the corner
-Jabs and grab punishes
-Bair punish
-DTilt
-Run down and Counter him off-stage, but you have to position it just right and be quick.

You have to jump or roll into jabs/grabs. Besides Eruption and Counter, Ike doesn't really have any individual tools he can beat Little Mac with that other characters don't already have. The use of Ragnell is rendered ineffective to someone who punishes your recoil, gains distance quick with tilts and FSmash, cannot be punished on anything except for a shielded USmash, and you can't nullify his KO punch from afar.

What I'm trying to say is you can still win the match, but in general, you have to completely adhere to the matchup. You are in his grasp at all times, not the other way around. Characters like Bowser Jr. can use Mechakoopas and have great gimping abilities. Mario has FLUDD and Fireballs. Playing Ike like you're playing against 95% of the roster is suicide in this matchup.

 

[⑨ball]

-snip-

The Little Mac MU is all about space control, which you don't have a good concept of yet. Reposting this in case you missed it because it will really help you out:

for now I'd recommend taking a break from matches and learning the ranges on your attacks. If nothing else, you should never be getting hit by an UpB when trying to edgeguard with Eruption.