Data Prepare Yourself (Ike Match-up thread)

[xBlitz]

So I play a few high level brawl players in my region, and I could lend a few ideas to some of the matchups based on what I've learned:

These players being V115, Blacktwins and Chris Fisch have a winning record against me, but I've taken many games off them and have a general idea of what needs to be done:


Yoshi: B reverse tongue has good range for landing, but then again nair is also pretty devastating, and ground pound can potentially break weak shields. When he's above you, baiting ground pound by hanging out below him can lead to a spot dodge grab or f tilt, while being in the air can lead to fair/bair. Shielding dair with a full shield can net you a bair OoS or shield drop d tilt. And as for his b reverse tongue, run up spot dodge to dash grab is one of the few options that I feel works best, but if you spot dodge early you'll get egged. Also don't forget he can jump OoS and aerial in this game.




Pikachu: I'm not super comfortable with this matchup, but I'll try to give out some pointers. Quick Attack is punishable with lasting hitboxes, most notably being up tilt. It kills above 100 and most importantly, beats the move. He can up tilt string at low %s into more aerials, and with Ike lacking any combo breaking aerials or specials outside of a rogue counter, expect to be juggled at low %s and struggle getting down. running shield helps mitigate the neutral b zoning, and shielding it from afar can lead to getting grabbed (jab/dtilt are good baits to a dash grab vs jolt). Recovering as Ike is difficult vs a good Pikachu, so try to mix up side b and up b. Always be prepared to properly DI/VI in case of being hit. Also, Pikachu's neutral b makes any aether planking generally a bad idea, so be wary of that.




Diddy: Not that great at the matchup, but I play an amazing Diddy player often so here a few things about the MU. Hitting his banana destroys it, so keep that in mind. Side b is super viable in this game, and if you're caught shielding a lot you'll have to deal with this move being used often. Spot dodge is good if you're close to him, other then that roll in resets to neutral, and roll away may get you hit by the kick. If you know he's going to side B, you have 4 solid options: retreating bair is decent, and if you're quite a bit away from him you can pivot f tilt, pivot f smash or running up smash (hard read).

If you shield a nana, mix up your options. I like shield drop jab or roll in. If he grab you, vectoring behind him and vectoring the fair in is probably your best bet at high %s, at low %s vector behind the throw and up/outwards in an attempt to avoid follow ups. He's amazing at covering landings so if he drops a low % combo be on your guard for side b, dash grabs and dash attack (Diddy up smash is pretty good too).




Robin: This matchup definitely feels even, or slightly Ike's favor. Both characters can gimp each other, so the whole off stage game is pretty simple. Walk off aerial vs Elwind is really viable, especially if your opponent is bad at teching. As for the neutral, Robin has terrible shield options so nair and fair seem to be quite safe if spaced properly. Learning to deal with arc fire and arc thunder (level 3 thunder charge) are a must. Arc fire on shield is best dealt with a roll backwards to reset to neutral, whereas arc thunder is best dealt with by avoiding the hit altogether. If shielding, prepare to be shield grabbed unless you can roll away. Thoron (full thunder charge) cannot be followed up on, so shielding resets to neutral unless you're close, in which case shield drop f tilt or a smash can net you a potential stock in the form of a gimp opportunity or an outright kill above 100. Pivot f tilt can beat out dash grab or dash attacks (both kind of suck for Robin). Spaced jab is hard for a Robin to punish by the look of it, so either jab 1 into jab 1 and see how they react or go for a read (I like f tilt personally), even if you hit with jab 1 f tilt isn't a bad read.

***Please feel free to edit any information if it seems incorrect, just let me know so I can be aware of my mistakes as well***

 

[xBlitz]

Got absolutely destroyed by Blacktwins' Pikachu on NDJ. Seriously guys, if you want a real good challenge, I suggest going to the Ladder on Nintendodojo. You'll quickly see what these guys are about.

Ahah, Waldo and I are good friends with Blacktwins. His Pikachu is arguably his most irritating, but his Dark Pit is also worth playing against.

 

[Mario766]

I'm gonna sound like a broken record here, but bear with me.

Rosalina: Spacing. There's two decent spots to be at on Ike, either right outside of Luma's range where Ike can hit with his moves but Luma can't unless they use their projectile, or you want to be in between when Luma is facing away from you. I feel like the best way to handle this is to deal with Luma first, THEN Rosalina. If you go for Rosalina 9/10 times Luma smacks you in the face and Rosalina gains advantage. A lot of Ike's moves kills Luma outright. Down tilt is exceptional in killing Luma as it sends Luma pretty much in a horizontal direction. Rosalina dies early and you don't die early if you don't get bopped. 6-4 Rosalina easily, Luma is such a strong tool and isn't gone long enough to make effective use of the down-time.

Bowser: Now here's a match-up I like. A LOT of Ike's moves link well on Bowser unless VI'd well, Nair carries Bowser and Aether combos work upwards to 50-55. Bowser has to commit a lot towards his moves unless he's using tilts, however you do as well. Spacing out Nair/Fair works well as Bowser isn't fast enough to punish unless you space incorrectly. 55-45 Bowser IMO. He's faster, he kills around the same time and his moves come out faster, but Ike has a range advantage and big disjoints, use them.

Jiggs: Fast aerial mobility, she punishes well and you're slow. Not a good start. You have a pretty massive range advantage, so spacing yet again is your biggest tool. You want to patiently rack up damage here and there without getting bopped off the stage. I recommend not going off-stage against Jiggs, it won't be fun. You kill Jiggs extremely early, with your good kill moves ending the stock around 80-85 with Up tilt killing easily at 90. Try to not get hit off-stage and don't get gimped. 55-45 Jiggs. The match-up is doable but Jiggs has the tools to deal with heavy characters.

 

[EvilShadow777]

Hey guys, been lurking the forums a while and recently have been playing a lot of Ike. Mostly I play For Glory 1v1s all day though I've had a lot of experiences playing matches with friends at a large variety of skill levels.

One match up I severely struggled with is Samus. Now most match-ups are pretty simple to deal with since Ike has a variety of tools to bait his enemy but Samus is an incredibly campy character and most of Ike's animations have just enough lag for her grab to connect. Now usually I can fight in the air with a lot of ease due to Ike's ability to space, but many of Samus' aerials match his ranges or beat them by hitting at different angles so winning an air fight against her is hard. I played against an awesome Samus player this morning who simply destroyed me if I was anywhere near the edge attempting to hit her. She was able to get very early % kills by flinging me off, slapping me before I could even use a n-air, and when my second jump was out and I was forced into an aeither she pretty much got free kills off of gimps. I have no idea how to approach a situation like this since trying to bait her to the center of the stage really isn't going to work since Ike has no ranged pressure. Any help?


Though I do actually have some advice to offer for the Sonic vs Ike matchup. I used to play a ton of Sonic in Brawl and other than reliability buffs he's largely the same character. This matchup is rather interesting since each character's strengths allow the match to swing either way. Sonic's main asset is his speed. His moves lack lag, he has great ground speed, and he can launch himself vertically and horizontally very quickly. He can easily pop combos and apply pressure while diving in and out of fights. Ike on the other hand is a slow slugger and a tank. He has good recovery tools that are similar in nature to Sonics so a fight between these two can last a while. Since Ike is way heavier that can play to your advantage since one good hit with the rage effect is all you'll need for the kill.

While Sonic definitely has speed to his advantage, Ike has strong melee range and powerful tools to negate pressure. Since you know Sonic is going to want to pressure you, you can use this to your advantage. Foxtrot retreats and dash dancing can leave you in a position to use ftilts or dtilts to get quick swings on sonic depending on how close he is. If he takes to the air, you can duke it out with him rather easily. Everyone knows the power of Ike's fair, but his nair really shines in this matchup. Not only does it just outrange most of Sonic's air hits but it has very little lag compared to most of Ike's stuff and it swings in an arc. If you do a full jump timed as Sonic is descending, its very easy to pop a clean hit which if you have enough knockback will give you a free midair side b hit, though don't make this move unless you're midstage because otherwise you might kill yourself.

Ike's Eruption is also very useful here. The hitbox hits a bit below the groundwhile hitting above so its perfect for a ledge punish. When Sonic is recovering to the stage he has 3 options - Up B, Side B, and homing attack. Trying to jump at you for a hit is suicide while he's falling so he either has to try and up B over you, which if you time it right you can get an easy aerial on him or he'll land on your eruption. If he tries to jump from below, timing your eruption right will lead to an easy gimp/punish as long as you use it at the proper time, though his ledge grap is quick and he gets an invincible frame so I'd wait to use it for if he tries to ledgecamp or if you're confident. Homing attack is going to go straight into the main hitbox of your eruption but it will counter any form of aerial attack, be aware of this if you want to go for a spike.

Also the counter is awesome. Occasionally pull it out for free hits. Sonic is all about pressure so you're pretty much guaranteed hits unless he goes for grabs, in which case your range will punish him ez pz. Downsmash is a great option for the grab game simply because it covers both your sides, has good range, and fires faster than your fsmash. On the topic of fmash, don't use it. Like at all. It'll get shielded or dodged, sonic will almost never get hit by it. Usually Sonic vs Ike is always a close one for me since Sonic has a lot of kill options but if you read him right you can destroy him without much challenge. I feel at a top level this matchup would be 60-40 Ike just because of all the great options you have.

 

[CandyCakes]

Counter are more useful this game

 

[Hakumen]

I feel like the Robin match up is not in Ike's favor. Definitely had the most trouble dealing with Arc Fire and Arc Thunder. Maybe I'm not patient enough, or I'm doing something wrong, but I had trouble with a Robin player.

 

[Sol0ke]

I haven't fought any good Robins yet but I'm anticipating that winning the matchup will need a bunch of power shielding
But I need to actually get the game and play with other Robins to see.

 

[Hakumen]

The reason I ask is because I recently played in a Smash 4 tournament, and lost to a really good Robin player (I still managed to take 2nd place). Looking back, I lost due to impatience, and getting shield grabbed. Maybe I just need to give that match up another shot, but it definitely did not feel in Ike's favor.

 

[Vinylic.]

Luigi is certainly not in ikes favor. His aerials makes for a bad advantage on him. More to come.

 

[CandyCakes]

Peach is no where near ikes favor

 

[xBlitz]

Tomes are a commitment, and with how badly Ike's aerials are on shield vs most of the cast, Robin struggles to punish well spaces nair/fair on shield, and f tilt isn't the worse thing you could hit their shield with either.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I think Zelda counters Ike. She has next to no hitlag on most of her attacks, Nayru's Love is her safety "get out of jail free" card, her Bair is the KILLING counter to Ike's Smash whiffs, and she's heavy now. Things that kill most enemies at lower percents won't work on her.

 

[Hakumen]

I don't believe I've had trouble with any Zelda players so far. Most of the things she does are pretty clear and can be avoided.
If anything, her normals and command normals are what makes her a little bit of a problem. I assume DTilt is still good with her? In any case, I've been able to fight her pretty well myself. Once you knock her off the stage, I think it becomes very easy to get rid of her. Her teleport is very telegraphed, and even if you don't guess accurately where she is going, you can still prepare for what she might do after. Going for the ledge? Charge Eruption and release accordingly. Didn't work? That's okay, she's holding on to the ledge so you're good. Not going for the ledge? Charge Eruption anyways, if she's even above the hitbox she'll take the attack. If she teleports higher than that, then you can go for a punish if you noticed her location, since her recovery is pretty bad afterwards. The only thing you have to do is watch where the player is moving her after falling.

But hey, that's just me.

 

[-RedX-]

Charging Eruption at the edge against a recovering Zelda is very dangerous. You get hit by her re-appearance and it's totally possible to die at 70%. Happened to me once and I learned my lesson lol. I think Zelda still can't do anything about Ike's spaced aerials. Blocking her re-appearance is Usmash punishable on block. Ftilt/Bair if she's a tiny bit out of range. Dtilt/Jab is great in neutral. Try to pick out situations when Naryu's Love would be used and punish accordingly.

 

[Hakumen]

Charging Eruption at the edge against a recovering Zelda is very dangerous. You get hit by her re-appearance and it's totally possible to die at 70%. Happened to me once and I learned my lesson lol. I think Zelda still can't do anything about Ike's spaced aerials. Blocking her re-appearance is Usmash punishable on block. Ftilt/Bair if she's a tiny bit out of range. Dtilt/Jab is great in neutral. Try to pick out situations when Naryu's Love would be used and punish accordingly.

Charging Eruption near the stage has always been my strategy for ledge grabbing. It hasn't once backfired on me. Maybe do it when you've got low percentage, I suppose, but I've (again) never an into that problem. Since you mention it though, I'll definitely keep in mind not to do it at high percentage against a teleporting Zelda.
Also, I do mean using it if the Zelda is very far off the stage, just so you've got time to space it all accordingly. I would definitely not use it early in a battle.

 

[EvilShadow777]

You really shouldn't be charging eruption against zelda. Her up b is a kill move and from my experience playing her you have a lot of tricks between her sweet spot aerials and the distance her down b covers. If she gets launched the only tool that can't be used is dins fire, if she can read you she'll get back on stage no issue.

However one big problem with zelda is her lag. If she's not using neutralb, shield, or down b she's vulnerable to quick draw. It's a great approach option since it forces her to fight you within your optimal trading space. Personally I feel it's 50/50 since the characters are strong in separate ranges and both are about space control.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Luigi is certainly not in ikes favor. His aerials makes for a bad advantage on him. More to come.

Rather doubtful of this between Luigi's range and aerial speed... or lack thereof.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I was definitely wrong about Zelda. She's not that much of a deal.

Sonic and Olimar are disastrous. I thought King Dedede was hard earlier, but he does have weaknesses. First, things to watch out for.

>Bair goes UPWARDS
>Bair outranges your Fair and Bair
>Has very little hitlag on many of his stronger moves, thus making him very difficult to punish
>Gordo makes him invincible briefly. Attacking close means getting hit by the hammer and the Gordo
>Has better recovery than you and can fly/airdodge/Gordo away from your incoming Fair

Weaknesses:

>Ftilt can be answered by your own FTilt
>Huge hitbox makes it easy to Fair him
>This apply doubly so to Dedede players who recover high and try to use Gordos to assist them
>You can spike King Dedede easily with Dair from the ledge
>Due to his large hitbox, is EASY to rack up to 60% or more damage via DThrow into Fair/Nair
>Most of all, he is susceptible to Eruption upon Up B recovery

Keep in mind that while his Bair and DSmash are lethal, the best ways to punish him are simply staying out of his grab range and punishing with FTilt or a grab of your own. It's preferable to stay on the ground with him if possible as his aerials outrange your own. Once you get him offstage, he's yours for the taking.

And Ness. I faced Shamrock7r's Ness on NDJ.

PK THUNDER! PK THUNDER! PK THUNDER!

While you're in the air or recovering, this move is death. It moves 2x faster than it ever did before, and if it gets you under the stage, prepare for an early gimp death. Moreover, again with it being so fast, Ness can quickly position it behind him and snare you with a quick kill before you have the chance to Counter. FSmash will NOT punish a PK Thunder-striking Ness if you shield him.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

What custom setup would you use against Little Mac?

I am thinking of Tempest (Eruption 2) due to being able to launch Mac from the stage. As for the Down B I think the default one is the best because Mac's moves deal a lot of damage and have high launching power so being able to use that against him is far more advantageous.
As for the Up B and Side B, which ones would you use?

 

[Mario766]

I pretty much default to 1/2/1/1

Paralysis Counter has really bad active frames. Aether 2 can screw you in recovery. Tempest isn't a bad idea, you can stall against Mac using it and Aether.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Facing ThugHeart from GameFAQs' Smash 3DS Online board. His Brawler Mii is practically unbeatable.

>3-for-1 rule (he can hit 3 times before you can get one of your Smashes out.) This keeps you from doing USmash to kill him as he WILL punish it.
>Extreme rushdown makes it easy for him to stay on you and difficult for you to escape.
>Infinite recovery with Side Bs. Can get away with overhead recovery.
>Up B, FSmash, USmash, and Side B are all kill moves.
>Can punish you from halfway across the stage in an instant by covering ground quickly.
>Heavyweight, so is just as agile as he is durable. Can survive Fair at dastardly percentages
>Good grab range.
>Little to no hitlag on most attacks, making it hard to punish. He'll constantly do a move, then shield or spot-dodge before I can get him, and then punish me for it.

Some weaknesses:

>Like many other characters, highly susceptible to Eruption offstage while trying to recover. Applies to Side B and Up B.
>Aerials lack range. He loves to go high, and as such, susceptible to Uair.

Not gonna lie. ThugHeart is an exceptionally skilled player who's good at making serious reads. I mean, even against my Ike, he made TWO 2-stock comebacks to finish me off. A lot of it had to do with him simply outplaying me. But hopefully some of these tips can help anyone having trouble against a Mii Brawler. I don't know what specific B moves they are since I don't use him, but I'll update it when I check them out later.

Edit: Just made a Mii Brawler and tested the moves out. These are what he's using.

B: Shot Put
Side B: Onslaught
Up B: Piston Punch
Down B: Feint Jump

 

[mimicmatter]

I had a really hard time against a Sheik player (being really mean to me like playing with Ike in his final match before logging out of glory mode and beating me actually, yeah I'm bad whatever, I just want to learn and everything I don't care if you beat me with my own character your just good at the game but very mean .... anyway)

Sheik was only going for the side of the stage spamming knife, waiting for me to move (obviously) which I didn't had the choice to do. Since i could advance from the ground with his spam of needle, I went for the air, but whatever i did (nair, fair, dodge, counter, plain nothing) he just grab me into his stupid uthrow, uair, grab upthrow fair which gives me 50 %. And it did only this on and on and on all the time. I know that competitive play can often ends up at doing the same strategy over and over but that was plain ridiculous.

Anyway, any tips against that kind of play coming from Sheik ?

 

[Mario766]

He's waiting for your aerial to shield grab you.

1) Space it out, he can't grab you if you space out a Nair or a F-Air. At least it isn't 100 percent guaranteed. You get to act before his grab can happen.
2) Empty jump. Don't get too predictable. If you're just running your aerial into his shield he'll grab you 24/7. You'll want to cross him up, jump over needles, wait for him to be open then do an aerial.

Patience is a virtue, esp with Ike.

 

[mimicmatter]

He's waiting for your aerial to shield grab you.

1) Space it out, he can't grab you if you space out a Nair or a F-Air. At least it isn't 100 percent guaranteed. You get to act before his grab can happen.
2) Empty jump. Don't get too predictable. If you're just running your aerial into his shield he'll grab you 24/7. You'll want to cross him up, jump over needles, wait for him to be open then do an aerial.

Patience is a virtue, esp with Ike.

Yeah ! well I was doing some empty jump too, but spacing my jump will help a lot. I will try to land right out of his grab then act out of his grab fail.

Still I find that there is almost ne ending lag to any Sheik's move, There is almost nothing to punish. Well only one way to get better is to play !

 

[Mario766]

You have to space things out and wait for the opening.

You're right, Sheik has very little punishable moves, Fair would be one but Sheik can jab before your grab if she whiffs.


Take it like facing Greninja

Same kind of match-up.

 

[Evello]

I've yet to face a particularly amazing Bowser, but I feel like that MU is in Ike's favor. Ike's range is killer, and Bowser is a massive target. It's hard NOT to hit him. His weight and size also make Aether combos useful up to a relatively high %. The only tool I've seen Bowser use to out-range Ike is his fire, which Ike can easily short-hop over and fair/nair. Like I said, most of my opponents have been pretty mediocre, but across all the matches, the only way I've gotten KO'd outside of stupid mistakes was through repeated Bowsercide. Even Bowser's super armor frames haven't helped him that much, as long as Ike spaces things properly.

Unfortunately, I cannot for the life of me figure out how to deal with Robin. I fought a great Robin a dozen or so times online the other day, and could never do more than barely KO him once. His projectiles basically force Ike to approach, and Arcfire leaves Ike only one good path to reach Robin, essentially making Ike try to correctly space nairs and fairs. Quickdraw is all but useless against Robin, and bringing the fight to the air means risking Robin's pretty terrifying Levin aerials, though Ike can outspace him if timed precisely. But as soon as the Robin I fought got my % up, he could spam thunder magic to keep me from getting in range. Does my shield timing just suck, or have other people found this to be a tough MU?

 

[Planet God Venus]

Olimar sucks, Ike smacks him harder than he did in Brawl. In Smash 4 if you played any matchups at a high level they seem easier on this game. Maybe it's just me not sure...

 

[Planet God Venus]

And Sheik isn't hard if you played the matchup in Brawl a lot.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Facing ThugHeart from GameFAQs' Smash 3DS Online board. His Brawler Mii is practically unbeatable.

>3-for-1 rule (he can hit 3 times before you can get one of your Smashes out.) This keeps you from doing USmash to kill him as he WILL punish it.
>Extreme rushdown makes it easy for him to stay on you and difficult for you to escape.
>Infinite recovery with Side Bs. Can get away with overhead recovery.
>Up B, FSmash, USmash, and Side B are all kill moves.
>Can punish you from halfway across the stage in an instant by covering ground quickly.
>Heavyweight, so is just as agile as he is durable. Can survive Fair at dastardly percentages
>Good grab range.
>Little to no hitlag on most attacks, making it hard to punish. He'll constantly do a move, then shield or spot-dodge before I can get him, and then punish me for it.

Some weaknesses:

>Like many other characters, highly susceptible to Eruption offstage while trying to recover. Applies to Side B and Up B.
>Aerials lack range. He loves to go high, and as such, susceptible to Uair.

Not gonna lie. ThugHeart is an exceptionally skilled player who's good at making serious reads. I mean, even against my Ike, he made TWO 2-stock comebacks to finish me off. A lot of it had to do with him simply outplaying me. But hopefully some of these tips can help anyone having trouble against a Mii Brawler. I don't know what specific B moves they are since I don't use him, but I'll update it when I check them out later.

Edit: Just made a Mii Brawler and tested the moves out. These are what he's using.

B: Shot Put
Side B: Onslaught
Up B: Piston Punch
Down B: Feint Jump

.............

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Toon Link is nightmarish. I had one up to 150% and couldn't Bair him dead. Kills me with USmash at 111%. But here's more.

>Excellent at canceling all of his attacks, including those straight from Bomb
>UTilt / USmash combo at low percents deals damage quickly and is hard to escape
>Utilt comes out extremely fast and beats anything you do
>Hookshot in the air (Zair) is his primary way of getting in close to you or punishing any of your jabs
>Fair kills
>BThrow kills off the edge
>Can and will try to suicide Fair you for a kill
>Air Spin Attack also kills

He has a bigger arsenal of viable killing options and can build damage quick. Grabs work well, but pressure only goes so far due to his canceling ability.

While I'm at it, let me add Villager as well.

>Turnips CAN surprise kill you
>Will combo you in the air with Nair-Nair or Fair-Fair
>Fair all day. Bair all day. Can outrange your aerials and abuse them greatly.
>FSmash over the edge to kill you while using Aether to recover
>Fair/Bair you against the edge to gimp spike you quickly
>Will Fair/Uair on the edge and use Side B to stop you from edgeguarding.
>Uses Side B to bait you into an aerial approach. If he sees you jumping, he will use FSmash to take you down and beat your Fair.
>Can control Up B, making him one of the characters that the Eruption edge trick is not usable on.
>Ftilt is strong, incredibly fast, and can knock you off the edge
>Middlweight, so fairly more durable than his size suggests.
>If you go in the air, he will chase you down with Uair. Sometimes it will be a triple turnip, which can kill. These attacks also outrange your Nair and Dair.

One weakness Villager has is DTilt. The one I was playing (rYuk) used Side B in the air. When he lands, his Fair not only whiffs, but DTilt will connect. This is effective on the edge as well. He was also rolling a lot into Neutral A or FTilt. USmash outranges, USmash kills at 90%

Another thing is that I could have probably Baired him since he always recovered low.

 

[Mario766]

Wait for Wii U version. Bomb cancel is gone. Play around his projectiles, he's pretty much a faster, lighter version of the Link match-up.

 

[san.]

Only way to get around TL in Brawl was powershield->Jab shenanigans and instant tossing the bombs. Luckily, this looks like something that custom Ike would be able to handle much better. Ike can use his aerials to stop the projectiles in this game thankfully, but I haven't fought the matchup to tell how it works out in practice.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Wait for Wii U version. Bomb cancel is gone. Play around his projectiles, he's pretty much a faster, lighter version of the Link match-up.

Na the Socal version was an older version. It's probably still there, but I don't see how you can have a TL problem Durango... That character is way easier in this game.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Only way to get around TL in Brawl was powershield->Jab shenanigans and instant tossing the bombs. Luckily, this looks like something that custom Ike would be able to handle much better. Ike can use his aerials to stop the projectiles in this game thankfully, but I haven't fought the matchup to tell how it works out in practice.

TL is worse on this game and once offstage if you hit him he can't make it back. Unless it's on a flat wall version of fd where he can wall jump and proceed to up b.. which is why you ban those if the ruleset permits...

 

[Planet God Venus]

Actually most of the problems Ike's are having is because they lack the experience in the match ups from brawl...

 

[san.]

TL is worse on this game and once offstage if you hit him he can't make it back. Unless it's on a flat wall version of fd where he can wall jump and proceed to up b.. which is why you ban those if the ruleset permits...

Good to know.

Let the people learn the MUs. Vets can only give a bit of advice now and then

 

[Planet God Venus]

Good to know.

Let the people learn the MUs. Vets can only give a bit of advice now and then

Guess I can only aid a bit then lol, some match ups become easy from experience.

 

[mimicmatter]

Out of all matchup, I think Shulk has the most even of them all against Ike. There are for very similar from one another while not being total clone.

First of all, he has better range than Ike, but Ike has more killing power, unless Shulk goes for the Smash Monado. Has for his moves, they are about the same speed has Ike. So take some defense and yet for him to whiff and strikes back, its better to go for grab.

He has a counter too, so don't rush in when you hit it. However his counter is not like Ike when he hit back. During his Counter animation, Shulk will go sideway and strike from the side he was hit, that mean you are safe to hit when you are above or below him.

Most important of all is to know Shulk Monado Arts in order to know his weaknesses. I know a lot of people might be already aware of all Shulk Monado Arts, but let's put them somewhere so we know them.

Jump (Green) : Gives him a lot a jumping height, but reduce his defense. A normal Shulk player would use this one only to return from being kick out very far from the platform and remove it as soon as he is back. When he is trying to return, try to place yourself between the ledge and the center of the platform, so you are in between the two possible place he will try to go. Trying the edgeguard with eruption at the ledge will make him prefer goes higher and pass you.

Speed (Blue) : That gives him a lot of ground speed, but his attack aren't as damaging. Take a defense mesure don't rush in, he will probably try to let you whiff in order to grab you. Even if he does less damage, his knockback power his the same so be careful if you are a high percent.

Shield (Yellow) : That gives him a lot of weight and defense, but his damage, jump, speed are reduce. Again his knockback power is the same so be careful if you are at high percent. Act like if he was Little Mac in this situation, only way more slower. Go at the ledge try to grab and throw him, his jump and speed is so reduce, he will have a hard time returning to the ledge even from being thrown from a grab.

Buster (Purple) : The main deal with Monado Arts. Buster gives him more damage power, but his knockback is reduce. At the same time, his defense is reduce so you are dealing more damage. This is the bargain power of Shulk, either you damage him or he damage you. Note that with the reduce knockback, he will not be able to KO in this state unless you are really high in damage. Shulk will probably be aggressive in this situation, watch his movement and get ready to counter.

Smash (Red) : Smash gives him a lot of knockback power but reduce his damage power and he loss defense in knockback too. A Normal Shulk player will use this when you just KO him while you are at high percent as an act of revenge kill. This is a bad situation since you can't really KO him even at 0% while any hit will be devastating on you. Expect him to do any strong moves and counter attack. The advantage you can have in this situation is that the further knockback he will receive he will go farther than normal allowing to position yourself. For some character like Greninja and Sheik, this coul be bad since combo won't work well, but Ike is not really the type to combo too much. So just move him away from you until Smash is gone.

Of course, with custom moves, Monado can be change a little bit. Monado Arts 2 makes the Arts stay longer, but aren't as strong and cannot be canceled once they are activated. Monado Arts 3 makes the Arts stronger (the buff and the debuff) but aren't as long.

I know that people might be interesting more into the tougher match up rather than the evenly match up like Shulk, but I find rather important to put in paper all of the match up.

 

[Mario766]

The main art to watch out for is Speed, his increased speed means he can punish you from pretty much anywhere. Jump lets him do really good short hopped N/Fairs, and lets him recover from almost anywhere.

Buster is a really big risk, everything you do deals insane damage, one grab leads into 30+ percent with a read easy, and everything does 21-22 damage guaranteed.

Smash is pretty much a do or die option, during it you'll kill him really early, but you'll die to a good smash/aerial. Play patient and wait for openings.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Any Ike's want to discuss the Diddy, Rosa, Greninja, Sheik MU with me? I think I got a lot of info to share... and there are some things I want to debate on actually @ san. @ -RedX- @Nysyarc