Data Prepare Yourself (Ike Match-up thread)

[Tobi_Whatever]

I need some zss knowledge. Anyone got any?

I'm by far not the best player out there but I main ZSS and recently picked up Ike as secondary. Anything specific I can potentially help you with?

 

[Arrei]

Our jab isn't as quick as Falcon's, but it reaches farther, so if spaced well we can beat it. The problem is, if Falcon pulls out an Fsmash instead of a jab, his hitbox gets shifted backwards so we whiff and get an elbow to the face.

I think capitalizing on failed dash grabs and dash attacks is key to the matchup, making good spot dodging crucial, but he could dash into shield grab or other options if we get predictable.

 

[Linkmario00]

PP Utilt is a good option for beat his DG, since we space ourselves and Uptilt is a good and powerful disjointed with lingering hitboxes. Also, like everyone has already said, Falcon offstage=dead Falcon.

 

[WoolMoth]

After posting this in the PM thread like a idiot I am copy pasting this here.

So I just created an account because I wanted to help you guys (I've been lurking for a while). I don't know if this was discussed earlier or not but I played 12 games against a good bowser jr. and after winning 10 games (two I lost do to SD) I honestly think Ike is favored to heavily favored in the match up. Quick draw completely shuts down any sort of approach bowser jr. really has as it out prioritizes his side b as well as his dash attack. Quick draw also seems fairly safe to challenge a charging forward smash (though not 100% safe). Quick draw can also challenge when he sets up a mecha koopa if you short hop into it since you fly over the mech. As well as a cannon ball since it has so much start and end lag. Bowser Jr. really has no good way to deal with bair in the air since his aerials are so slow. Eruption and up smash are also a very reasonable ways to edge guard him recovering low as there is a certain height where if bowser jr. tries to recover from he will actually over shoot the edge, missing the sweet spot, leaving him helpless out side his clown car as he has no way to challenge you from above in that state. The player I was going up against wasn't bad either. He just really couldn't find opportunities to find openings since I covered them so well with only quick draw. I played against him with some other characters I was decent at and I got wrecked. I apologize if this was already known or discussed before. It is just a rarer match up so I thought maybe it could help.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I can attest that Sonic is Ike's worst matchup. 6-4 on the best day, 65:35 at worst.

I think Sheik is just great against everyone. But Sonic has the damage build, cancels, recovery options, punish options, and can disrespect Ike's disjoint with his lanky limbs (e.g. FSmash beats out Ike's Nair).

Sonic has the ability to perfectly punish you from anywhere on the screen if you whiff anything, even a jab. He can use the springs to gimp you easily, and repeatedly, can use repeated Fairs to gimp you if you DI incorrectly, and has stage advantages on every stage, to include Delfino and Battlefield.

Bair and Nair have longer amounts of active frames than most attacks, and he can damage you from 0% to 30% in one combo, and Spin Dash to Bair in a 90% combo.

Sonic is able to grab past your Nair on shield-grab, even when spaced, abuse pivot grabs, and purposely baits naked shorthops, knowing he can punish you for doing nothing. You have no aerial defense against him, as if he snags you in a setup and sends you flying and you try to retreat Fair, he can Fair or Bair you first.

His Bair has a high hitbox. This keeps him from getting hit by your Nair. Given its range, it can also beat you out if you're just a pixel too far.

He has a lightweight frame with midweight survivability. He will dodge your attacks just barely while surviving at percents he has no business surviving at.

Sonic enjoys grabbing you as a primary punish while landing. This is his main way to screw toy over. Note his excessive grab range in the video critique thread. I will be posting my matches against PhoenixDark later this evening for reference.

The most detrimental part of this matchup is that you must rely on well-timed reads to damage Sonic. On the other hand, he can punish your every move from across the screen. He has a huge window of punishing Ike.

The second worst part of the matchup is trying to grab Sonic - our primary source of damage. He can simply grab faster, grab farther, jab as a fail-safe, and Spring his way to safety.

Lastly, his aerial movement makes getting to him difficult. Even when going for a punish, you will find yourself constantly attacking JUST out of his hitbox before he lands and punishes you.

It is at the very least suggested that you have a pocket secondary going into a tournament against a Sonic player. In fact, I highly recommend having a secondary.

 

[Arrei]

I don't know about that - Sonic is really fast and has a lot of options, sure, but among the fast combo-oriented fighters, he leaves himself the most open after failed approaches. Both his dash attack and dash grab leave him wide open after a spot dodge, and he can't simply wait for an opening in his spin dashes as Ike can clank them with Quick Draw, shield then punish, or Counter the attack itself if he's far away. He has good aerial options but his aerial mobility is much lower than on the ground and he shares one of Ike's weaknesses in that he doesn't have much to answer against attacks from below, as Nair has very little reach and isn't as quick as other Nairs, Homing Attack can be made to miss much more easily in the air and has disastrous endlag if directed into the ground, and Dair has a lot of ending lag if he uses it too close to the ground.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike wins the Sonic match up Rango. To put it bluntly: you are very wrong.

I'd advise you look up Ryo vs Static Manny and figure out how to play the MU. Ryo beat his Sonic so hard one tournament that he switched to Roy the next. And seeing how that's the best Sonic, the one who came 9th at both APEX and EVO, there isn't really much room for debate on it. Ike doesn't win by a lot, but he does win.

Also, Ike doesn't doesn't have any MUs that are 35-65.

 

[Mario766]

Disjoints beat Sonic. Spacing destroys Sonic. It's very easy without customs and even with customs

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Ike wins the Sonic match up Rango. To put it bluntly: you are very wrong.

I'd advise you look up Ryo vs Static Manny and figure out how to play the MU. Ryo beat his Sonic so hard one tournament that he switched to Roy the next. And seeing how that's the best Sonic, the one who came 9th at both APEX and EVO, there isn't really much room for debate on it. Ike doesn't win by a lot, but he does win.

Also, Ike doesn't doesn't have any MUs that are 35-65.

Honestly, I hope I am wrong and just missing something here.

I actually did watch that match on my break and I was very surprised. I'm going to rematch PhoenixDark when I get home.

 

[san.]

There's a biiig difference.

It's wifi Sonic.

Nuff said.


Sonic used to beat Ike but a lot of his moves were weakened. Ike doesn't have to fear attacks until proper kill % instead of absurdly early like before.

I thought Ike was 35:65 to Sheik during 1.0.4. It's probably 4:6 now IMO, and only because of the Sheik metagame developing her needle movement options and mixups. A Sheik that doesn't utilize all her options will probably have a tough time vs. the good Ike players.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

There's a biiig difference.

It's wifi Sonic.

Nuff said.


Sonic used to beat Ike but a lot of his moves were weakened. Ike doesn't have to fear attacks until proper kill % instead of absurdly early like before.

I thought Ike was 35:65 to Sheik during 1.0.4. It's probably 4:6 now IMO, and only because of the Sheik metagame developing her needle movement options and mixups. A Sheik that doesn't utilize all her options will probably have a tough time vs. the good Ike players.

I don't understand the whole Wi-Fi difference, to be honest. I mean, sometimes there's a flub like he'll UThrow > Uair and combo kill me even when I mashed the hell out of R and it should have been an airdodge. On the other hand, I believe I mentioned it, but when it comes to read, my last two Sonic opponents could just derp me from across the screen and punish everything.

I also forgot to mention that Sonic is pretty good at mixing recovery since he doesn't have to be at the lowest point to clip the ledge from Spring. He can be around middle of the way to the ledge, or throw you off with Homing Attack (which, in itself, is highly unsafe). The difference maker from the Spring is that he can first save his second jump to shark you with Uair. I notice Ryo didn't even use Eruption against StaticManny, so he already knows to either go deep or to stay on stage.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Wifi always adds a significant amount of input lag even if you don't notice it. That greatly favours characters that are quicker more than characters are slower. The lag input also means a lot of Ike's tighter combos simply aren't going to work, or that a lot of things you try to punish and would be able to punish offline miss online.

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever count wifi experience for how you think a MU goes. It adds an inconsistent factor that renders things completely different from reality. Really in general you should never take wifi with any amount of seriousness. If you do, you'll develop bad habits.

Ryo doesn't use Eruption enough. Eruption would beat out Sonic's Uair easily, he just doesn't use it much in general. He also doesn't use Uair enough, but the video still showcases fairly well how to play the MU.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Wifi always adds a significant amount of input lag even if you don't notice it. That greatly favours characters that are quicker more than characters are slower. The lag input also means a lot of Ike's tighter combos simply aren't going to work, or that a lot of things you try to punish and would be able to punish offline miss online.

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever count wifi experience for how you think a MU goes. It adds an inconsistent factor that renders things completely different from reality. Really in general you should never take wifi with any amount of seriousness. If you do, you'll develop bad habits.

Ryo doesn't use Eruption enough. Eruption would beat out Sonic's Uair easily, he just doesn't use it much in general. He also doesn't use Uair enough, but the video still showcases fairly well how to play the MU.

Sadly, I live in Augusta. We're a developing tournament scene as of last December. Online is where I've gotten all my practice from, and admittedly, it's how I've gotten good enough to take on the best players in the state and can handle myself well against other high-ranking players or even take sets off of them.

 

[san.]

Helps you get good, but it doesn't give you the exact experience of how an MU plays out most of the time. Not a big deal. We're trying to tell you that you may find it's an easier experience offline. Chances are you might not as well.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Helps you get good, but it doesn't give you the exact experience of how an MU plays out most of the time. Not a big deal. We're trying to tell you that you may find it's an easier experience offline. Chances are you might not as well.

The only Sonic player I've played offline is Aurora. I fought him at MomoCon in the bracket, and then we did some friendlies at CEO. But I haven't traveled to any tournaments since, and no one in my area uses Sonic. Our best players in Augusta use Pikachu, Charizard/Dr. Mario, Mario/Link, and Captain Falcon.

 

[Chalice]

Who else are bad match ups for Ike? Aside from I mean. I've watched Ryo and he beats out and . Yet alone the I saw him beat wasn't ESAM level but still. Against Rosalina Ike can kill Luma consistently from my own experience against some good and bad Rosas+Lumas on For Glory and due to her weight Ike just kills her easily.

Only one I can think of that REALLY gives Ike trouble aside from Sheik is

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Who else are bad match ups for Ike? Aside from I mean. I've watched Ryo and he beats out and . Yet alone the I saw him beat wasn't ESAM level but still. Against Rosalina Ike can kill Luma consistently from my own experience against some good and bad Rosas+Lumas on For Glory and due to her weight Ike just kills her easily.

Only one I can think of that REALLY gives Ike trouble aside from Sheik is

Part of me wants to say Luigi, but the truth is, his recovery game is weak. Even though he can get you from 0% to 58% in seconds flat, he has trouble landing the kill. Now that his fireballs have more hitlag, any attempt for him to followup into dash grab is thwarted by a jab. Plus his air time makes it easy to smack him out of the air. It used to be pretty damn bad, though, but just keep an eye out.

 

[Chalice]

Well against Luigi we should be walling him out and not letting him get in to grab us. Ike can gimp him easy

Rather than Luigi, I think Mario is scarier due to his Cape/FLUDD gimping but again, we should be focused on walling him out to lessen the chances of getting thrown off stage.

Both match ups they WILL get a grab in at some point but playing the spacing/walling game will reduce the likelihood of it happening.

So yeah, the only real hard match ups in terms of the high tiers that I see PERSONALLY is (How did I forget to mention ZSS)

 

[GhostUrsa]

Instead of asking "Which MUs are bad for Ike?", I'd like to redirect the question a little. That question has been asked probably weekly both on this thread and other threads. Though the list of truly troubling MUs is dwindling, the top three (, , ) are pretty well established and get repeated often. We do need to cover these Match-ups more, since at higher level play they give Ike the most trouble so "the more we know" and such, but I'm seeing that characters that the newer Ike's are having trouble with haven't been getting much lime light lately.

So my redirected question (mostly for posterity sake, but I'm curious about how those with more experience pick their choices) is what MUs do you feel can be problematic for new or learning Ike players? Characters like Luigi, Captain Falcon and Sonic are three such characters in my opinion. Their need to rush in and play the grab game is what makes them dangerous to Ike's who are still learning the spacing game or have issues with properly buffering attacks from auto-cancelled moves.

Luigi is luckily the slowest of those with sticky hands, and can be trapped in his terrible dash with our disjoint. He's hard to time well with shield and dodging since his dash attack is designed to punish spot dodges, which he'll use this and fireballs to condition you for a good grab.

Sonic can get quite a few kills from his gimp game, but he heavily requires an opponent to stay predictable and fairly slow to capitalize on his combo game. Homing attack can be side-stepped if he attempts to use it on you at the end of a combo if you stay aware of his actions, where you can cause some havok with a good uncharged U-smash. Like Luigi, his dash attacks are designed to beat out a spot dodge though I find most Sonic will condition you to try to spot dodge more so they can use the dash attacks popup for follow-ups. Sonic's throws are decent, but most aren't something to worry about except his back throw. (Sonic seems to get more reward getting you in the air and helpless than he does from a throw. This could be a conditioned fallacy on my part, though I hope not since I don't lose to Sonic nearly as much now as I used to.)

I'm still trying to figure out the Captain Falcon fight for myself. He's always been my personal difficult MU. I feel that spot dodges can be more effective here than blocks when he's approaching from the ground since both his dash and his grab are a single hitbox. (When he attacks from the air and you are on the ground, shield to punish though watch out for his low landing lag!) Good spacing can be key to shutting down his aerials, though a good Falcon tends to go to the air only when chasing since they'd have to give up their significant dash-dancing advantage. (Seriously, he's got the best dash dance and perfect pivot distances in the game if the frame and distance data are anything to go off of.)

Biggest advice, which was covered earlier but I'll bring back up here for those playing the home game and have a hard time finding the exact post, is to make sure to save your second jump. We can use them to our advantage at mid or high % to get out of these throw-combos to help return to neutral. (or if they get greedy a nice F-air or N-air counter attack) I do find at really low %, we can fast fall out of both Luigi's and Sonic's aerial juggling due to our weight and easily counter with a b-air while they sail through the air. (Doesn't help much with Cap since his combos are similar to ours, but faster due to his ground speed. Throw to Air attack, ground attack, aerial, etc. The other two can either multi hit or attack with aerials multiple times before hitting the ground, so fast falling to the ground throws that off.)

What MUs do you think are ones that our up and comers need to watch out for? As they get better, we'll have more eyes on the harder MUs to look for potential weaknesses.

 

[Chalice]

I've played a fair amount of Marth so I'm not too new to figuring out spacing with short hop fairs and nairs

But I do see your point and I agree that those 3 you mentioned can be overwhelming for newer One players. Other characters that could be overwhelming is maybe and who is growing in popularity. 's attacks come out fast and his gyros are annoying making it harder to space. Then he comes in for down throw and uair and we take lots of dmg. I have fought quite a few ROBs and the match up feels 50:50 for me. While we can combo ROB, his projectile game and moves that have little start up and cool down makes it hard to punish.

For Robin I think the match up is 40:60 in Robin's favor. I've yet to beat a good Robin player as Ike. Now, I'm not necessarily amazing at Ike but I am sure that I'm decent at what I do and no matter what I do against Robin I either get a good read or I take massive dmg due to robin's punish game. Guaranteed kill set up from down throw to uair is insane and spaced nairs or fairs don't seem to help much because then they just throw elthunders or wait to spot dodge our grabs. They don't have to approach us at all and our own approach makes it hard to get in without getting grabbed or smacked by jabs and the Levin sword

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Robin doesn't win the MU. Way too slow to try to space well against Ike, Arcfire is never as good as you think it is which leaves just Elthunder which they want to use up close.

They should have to approach Ike if we don't approach him. Not like its hard to shield his projectiles if he tries that.. Or just punish him for trying to use one with dash attack at mid range. Or you can just use empty hops to bait out Elthunder, shield it, and then go from there. His Dthrow to Uair window is also pretty small and his recovery is worthless against Eruption.

 

[Chalice]

Was just stating out my personal experience against the match up. Guess I just need more practice against campy projectile characters.

 

[GhostUrsa]

Ike should win the Robin match-up, but there are things to look out for that can be detrimental to newer Ike players. Though all around s/he's slower than Ike, some of her attacks come out deceptively quick. (Much like some of Ike's moves.) His/Her dash attack has surprised me on multiple occasions and the aerials come out faster. El thunder is dangerous to shield, as it's active frames afterwards seem to be more so than ArcFire. (This allows safer punishes for them with dash grabs and such) Most of the decent Robin players I've seen will use their faster attacks to keep you at enough distance so they can use their spells to finish you off. (I've seen this tactic with good Samus and Lucario players.) The higher the % you get, the more risk you'll have when missing one block or dodge.

I know that can be said with any of the cast, but Thoron has great juggling ability if you get caught in it and they'll try to frame trap your landings so you will get stuck in it at high %. By the time you hit the ground, the next one is coming. Getting around such scenarios is a must, with luck for me being using the ledge and then rising into shield. As for when you approach, you'll want to use your disjoints to your advantage to make sure you stay out of Robin's dash range. If you want to make things easier, get Robin offstage. Their low recoveries are canon fodder for Ike since we can walk-off aerial, Eruption or spike them with almost no penalty there. If they can, they'll try to use thunder or ArcFire to prevent you from going after their low recoveries but a patient Ike can prevent that from being a problem.

 

[Arrei]

I actually struggled getting in on a good Charizard I played a while ago. However, I suspect it's more because of something I have trouble dealing with in general rather than a specific matchup - how do you deal with characters that can repeatedly throw out large or long-lasting aerials with no landing lag for a short hop in an attempt to wall you out, such as ROB, Rosalina, and Charizard's Nairs, Fox's Fair, or even Ike's own Fair? I am frequently at a loss when people pull out this tactic while retreating at the apex of their hop, as if daring you to enter their wall of hitbox.

 

[san.]

I actually struggled getting in on a good Charizard I played a while ago. However, I suspect it's more because of something I have trouble dealing with in general rather than a specific matchup - how do you deal with characters that can repeatedly throw out large or long-lasting aerials with no landing lag for a short hop in an attempt to wall you out, such as ROB, Rosalina, and Charizard's Nairs, Fox's Fair, or even Ike's own Fair? I am frequently at a loss when people pull out this tactic while retreating at the apex of their hop, as if daring you to enter their wall of hitbox.

Hit their attacks since they lack as much disjoint. Instead of outranging these characters, you may find success if you can out-disjoint them.

 

[Arrei]

The trouble with that seems to be that most of these walling aerials come out faster than Ike can answer with his own, but now that I think about it I suppose I haven't been using RAR Bairs as much as I should be.

That, and Ike's dash attack's gotten a lot better at punishing wasted hops. I'll have to keep that in mind.

 

[GhostUrsa]

With Rob and Rosie, I know that a lot of their long lasting aerial come in a very linear animation. (The attack comes out either directly horizontal or vertically, like Rosie's U-air or Rob's D-air) Our disjointed hitboxes have much better angular reach, which allows us to punish them from a diagonal much easier. I've been more likely to punish a d-air happy Rob with either a F-air from an angle or using u-air from off to the side than directly challenging them. This linear restriction is why a lot of them will try using them during the jump's rising frames, so they can use the jump's arc to cover the weakpoint in the attack animation.

This doesn't help much for sex kicks and such, since their whole body is pretty much a hitbox. I do find that our f-air does outspace these though, so maximizing spacing is key to surviving/abusing these.

 

[PyroTakun]

I can attest that Sonic is Ike's worst matchup. 6-4 on the best day, 65:35 at worst.

I think Sheik is just great against everyone. But Sonic has the damage build, cancels, recovery options, punish options, and can disrespect Ike's disjoint with his lanky limbs (e.g. FSmash beats out Ike's Nair).

Sonic has the ability to perfectly punish you from anywhere on the screen if you whiff anything, even a jab. He can use the springs to gimp you easily, and repeatedly, can use repeated Fairs to gimp you if you DI incorrectly, and has stage advantages on every stage, to include Delfino and Battlefield.

Bair and Nair have longer amounts of active frames than most attacks, and he can damage you from 0% to 30% in one combo, and Spin Dash to Bair in a 90% combo.

Sonic is able to grab past your Nair on shield-grab, even when spaced, abuse pivot grabs, and purposely baits naked shorthops, knowing he can punish you for doing nothing. You have no aerial defense against him, as if he snags you in a setup and sends you flying and you try to retreat Fair, he can Fair or Bair you first.

His Bair has a high hitbox. This keeps him from getting hit by your Nair. Given its range, it can also beat you out if you're just a pixel too far.

He has a lightweight frame with midweight survivability. He will dodge your attacks just barely while surviving at percents he has no business surviving at.

Sonic enjoys grabbing you as a primary punish while landing. This is his main way to screw toy over. Note his excessive grab range in the video critique thread. I will be posting my matches against PhoenixDark later this evening for reference.

The most detrimental part of this matchup is that you must rely on well-timed reads to damage Sonic. On the other hand, he can punish your every move from across the screen. He has a huge window of punishing Ike.

The second worst part of the matchup is trying to grab Sonic - our primary source of damage. He can simply grab faster, grab farther, jab as a fail-safe, and Spring his way to safety.

Lastly, his aerial movement makes getting to him difficult. Even when going for a punish, you will find yourself constantly attacking JUST out of his hitbox before he lands and punishes you.

It is at the very least suggested that you have a pocket secondary going into a tournament against a Sonic player. In fact, I highly recommend having a secondary.

I know I'm a little late to this discussion, but something quick to add is that Sonic's attacks have terrible priority. Once he throws out an attack, most notably spin-dash, it can be beat by pretty much anything if you just time it right. You can shield grab or pivot grab him out of it. If you're not comfortable with that, Sonics usually jump if they hit shield with Spin-Dash, so they're pretty open for punishes.

Also since Sonic doesn't have what I'd consider a real projectile, you can camp and force him to approach. If you go in, he has a bazillion ways to punish you, but if he comes in you can punish him. You gotta play patiently, more so than most MUs.

 

[Arrei]

On the note about jumping out of Spin Dash, though, good Sonics know to take advantage of their other options to fake you out. Most problematic to me is when they hop immediately into Homing Attack after reaching you, because there's no avoiding it at that distance if you react wrong. Of course, they're in a good position to be swatted out of the air if you're expecting it, but it's still down to a 50/50 of what they'll do after reaching you in a dash.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I know I'm a little late to this discussion, but something quick to add is that Sonic's attacks have terrible priority. Once he throws out an attack, most notably spin-dash, it can be beat by pretty much anything if you just time it right. You can shield grab or pivot grab him out of it. If you're not comfortable with that, Sonics usually jump if they hit shield with Spin-Dash, so they're pretty open for punishes.

Also since Sonic doesn't have what I'd consider a real projectile, you can camp and force him to approach. If you go in, he has a bazillion ways to punish you, but if he comes in you can punish him. You gotta play patiently, more so than most MUs.

San told me it's Wi-Fi, which I'm willing to believe. Wi-Fi Sonics can abuse that with their punishment speed.

 

[ReroRero]

Hi everyone, I have a question about the general match up spread. Is there a match up where Ike struggles REALLY (like 30-70 at least) or is it ok most of the time ? I have huge trouble against Zero Suit Samus but that could just me, Sheik is hard but that's not horrible though.

 

[GhostUrsa]

Nothing 70-30, but his biggest issues in general tend to be against Sheik, ZSS, Diddy and Rosie. Honorable mentions go to those with a superior grab game or speed game, so Captain Falcon, Luigi, Sonic, etc. With the latest changes, there are no completely unfair MUs anymore. 60-40 or 65-35 seem to be what is considered the worst odds for Ike now (and those are still being debated here.)

Keep in mind that if you are starting out, speedster characters seem to give newer Ike's problems while they are learning the ropes about spacing/buffering moves. I too seem to have more issues with Cap, ZSS and Sonic then I do with Sheik and Rosie as of now, though I suspect that to change as I improve at the game and start fighting stronger competition.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike has the advantage against Rosalina, don't know why you listed here there. After the last few patches, Luma just gets murdered and Ike's Uair is murdering Rosalina. Same with Sonic.

Sheik is his worst MU at 40-60. No 35-65s. After that nothing is agreed on for other MUs that could be negative. Ones in the "most likely but not agreed on" are ZSS and.... uh.... kinda Luigi but he seems to have the most spread out opinions so who knows. And then there are a large handful where you have different opinions between 40-60 and 50-50 or 55-45 even.

Really, nothing much is close to set in stone for Ike's MUs.

 

[Arrei]

Rosalina is able to capitalize on Ike's weaknesses the most, easily sending him offstage then gimping him during recovery with her lingering disjoints and juggling him for days with Uair. I can't say Ike has the advantage there. He's a big threat to Rosalina with his own disjoints and kill power but Rosie's walling is still extremely powerful.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike has the advantage.

Seen people on both sides of the MU agree about this. Luma is just dying too much. Rosalina's Uair is what keeps it close.

 

[FullMoon]

Hello Ike mains, the Greninja boards is going to discuss you guys: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...m-week-8-24-8-31.369356/page-25#post-20005352

Please help us prepare ourselves.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Ike has the advantage.

Seen people on both sides of the MU agree about this. Luma is just dying too much. Rosalina's Uair is what keeps it close.

Ryo drowned in pools against Neos' Rosalina at CEO and I lost to Xaltis. Rosalina takes out advantages, at Delfino and Battlefield, and completely uses them against us. If you're going to fight this matchup, you need to play pure defense, stay out of the air, kill the Luma with tilts and jabs, and stick to your jabs to punish her.

 

[AN(M)ist]

Perhaps this might help shed some light on Ike and Rosalina MU (SM vs Aphro): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT8x6yvxbSQ

I'd say that luma can definitely keep the pressure on Ike. But once Ike kills luma, the pressure game flips in his favor and he can immediately start pressuring Rosalina and try to KO her before another luma spawns back.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Perhaps this might help shed some light on Ike and Rosalina MU (SM vs Aphro): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT8x6yvxbSQ

I'd say that luma can definitely keep the pressure on Ike. But once Ike kills luma, the pressure game flips in his favor and he can immediately start pressuring Rosalina and try to KO her before another luma spawns back.

The problem is Rosalina can get campy and use those Fairs and Nairs to keep you off and auto-cancel to make it hard to punish.

 

[PyroTakun]

Hello Ike mains, the Greninja boards is going to discuss you guys: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...m-week-8-24-8-31.369356/page-25#post-20005352

Please help us prepare ourselves.

I only have a little bit of Greninja MU experience, but it's from a while back. I'll let you know my full thoughts on the MU when I get to fight a good Greninja again.