Data Prepare Yourself (Ike Match-up thread)

[Rango the Mercenary]

vs. Captain Falcon

UThrow -> Uair. True kill combo at 102% on FD/SV and 107% on BF. Currently testing how to make it consistent and the parameters at which percents you can use it at.

UThrow -> Fair. True kill combo at 104% on FD/SV and 116% on BF on the ledge.

Falcon Kick kills us at 120%. Keep your eyes open.

 

[shrooby]

Hey everyone we're discussing the Ike MU in the DDD forum

http://smashboards.com/threads/read...on-currently-discussing-ike-9-13-9-17.395045/

Input from your guys' side would be appreciated~

 

[Oblivion129]

Any tips on how to play the MU against Toon Link? It's pretty hard to approach so I normally switch to MK or CF. Any top level videos would be appreciated as well.

 

[Mario766]

Shouldn't be too hard. His projectiles are all slow and his frame data is slow.

 

[Arrei]

Best bet's probably powering through his projectiles to get in on him. I don't know the frame data on his grab so I don't know if Nair is safe on shield, but trying to jump over his projectiles and swat him with an aerial is generally unwise unless you catch him wide open. However, faking him out into a grab then punishing or jumping behind him to swat at him with Bair can still work well.

Don't let him bait you to a ledge at kill percent, though. Bthrow kills, and all.

 

[Oblivion129]

I feel like I shield too much against TL when I should be moving around to avoid frame disadvantage with shield drop. I'll try to improve my approach.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

My Charizard friend is quickly catching up to me in our bi-weekly tournaments. He reset the bracket on me and we went to Game 5 after that, where I barely won. He plays PM, so he has a ton of tech skill to boot. But he's got great jabs, even from afar, solid spacing, knows when to kill with Bair, good landing with Charizard, and ascending retreat Fairs and Nairs to attack and keep me off of him. Plus he knows exactly when to Dair spike me while recovering, akin to Captain Falcon.

He's definitely got most of my matchup down, even when I do the Ryo backflips for spacing and punishment. I tried more ground game today, but he kept mixing in dashgrabs and jabs. Is there anything to this matchup that I'm missing?

 

[Mario766]

N-Air is unsafe on shield, if he ever does it you should punish it heavily. He's also super weak above you as with most characters. Ike juggles Charizard heavily due to his slow aerial mobility and lack of escape options. His kill options are mostly out of throw unless you whiff something laggy. A lot of MUs play like it, but don't get grabbed. Charizard's grab is rather large also, so it's a little tough.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

N-Air is unsafe on shield, if he ever does it you should punish it heavily. He's also super weak above you as with most characters. Ike juggles Charizard heavily due to his slow aerial mobility and lack of escape options. His kill options are mostly out of throw unless you whiff something laggy. A lot of MUs play like it, but don't get grabbed. Charizard's grab is rather large also, so it's a little tough.

This is true. He also likes to juggle me on Battlefield platforms, but like you said, it's when he's above me that I deliver the most damage, with Nair more than anything. Nair's large hitbox and active frame make the difference in the matchup. He seems to only kill me if he can DThrow me into an airdodge-read Uair. Otherwise, he relies on Bair, DSmash to counter Side B recovery, UThrow at high percents, and the rare FSmash.

I've learned to ban Duck Hunt and Town and City while playing him. You die extremely early from UThrow if you don't. But even when neutralizing the stages, he still seems to have a very tough offense and defense.

I jab away his grabs since I know that, while they go fairly far and can grab me right out of a full shorthop, they're slow. However, he likes to answer back with jabs of his own, FTilt, and Fair. He'll grab at any possible chance he gets.

He also seems to read my tomahawk grabs fairly well. He'll mixup spot dodges on the edge with jabs.

 

[Mario766]

The top tiers are actually very weak to Ike's grab kill options.

Sheik and ZSS die to Up throw F-Air at 90-105, guaranteed without rage and with rage it'll be more like 85-95.

Falcon gets shafted, and dies super early to an edgegaurd so basically a grab is death at the ledge even if f-air doesn't kill him.
Luigi is safe, but you basically just want to throw him off and edgeguard.

Ryuga hit up throw f-air at max rage with 100 damage on Zinoto's diddy, but that wasn't a true combo, but it's still rather easy to hit due to Diddy's fall speed.

Fox gets blown apart by it because he's the FASTEST FALLER, same as up throw up air.

Rosalina should just be edgeguarded, no hitbox = free.

 

[san.]

This is true. He also likes to juggle me on Battlefield platforms, but like you said, it's when he's above me that I deliver the most damage, with Nair more than anything. Nair's large hitbox and active frame make the difference in the matchup. He seems to only kill me if he can DThrow me into an airdodge-read Uair. Otherwise, he relies on Bair, DSmash to counter Side B recovery, UThrow at high percents, and the rare FSmash.

I've learned to ban Duck Hunt and Town and City while playing him. You die extremely early from UThrow if you don't. But even when neutralizing the stages, he still seems to have a very tough offense and defense.

I jab away his grabs since I know that, while they go fairly far and can grab me right out of a full shorthop, they're slow. However, he likes to answer back with jabs of his own, FTilt, and Fair. He'll grab at any possible chance he gets.

He also seems to read my tomahawk grabs fairly well. He'll mixup spot dodges on the edge with jabs.

Charizard's uthrow doesn't kill too well if you hold down+away. It'll kill at 120+ even on platforms unless it's high rage.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Charizard's uthrow doesn't kill too well if you hold down+away. It'll kill at 120+ even on platforms unless it's high rage.

Yeah, but I ban those stages to insure he can't. DIing it has saved me until 135% and higher. His Charizard just has a download on me because we've played so many times and he's gotten much better with the matchup.

 

[Arrei]

So having run into the first good Diddy Kong on FG in a long while, it's become apparent that I sorely need practice on the Dobby Kong matchup. I'd like some tips, if anyone has some to share.

First order of business being his throw combos - even though Hoo-Hah was nerfed, it seems as though Doody Kong remains able to true combo most of his aerials following a throw up to pretty high percent, like 80ish. It doesn't seem to matter which way I DI, as whether I go left or right he's still able to follow up before I can airdodge or jump. What's the proper action to make when grabbed?

Also, how do I get in on Daddy Kong? I've found him surprisingly difficult to punish. As long as he's holding a banana, I can't risk anything or he can slip me up and get a grab or smash before I even become able to choose a getup option, but I can't just sit in my shield forever, either. Monkey Flip lets him quickly and unpredictably choose between grabbing me or throwing a kick at my face. I'm not sure how I should approach here.

Finally, on the topic of Monkey Flip, aerial chasing and edgeguarding. Monkey Flip gives Dolby Kong a quick escape option that allows him to either get away, change direction, or simply sail over our heads. How should I go about pursuing the advantage state with that kind of mobility under his belt?

 

[WispBae]

Hey there you hunks of men, you!
The Doggy forums are currently discussing this MU and would love your input on it!

Click on Ike sharing his friendship to Aether straight over to the thread!

 

[Legitimate Ted]

Are there any tips for fighting Ryu, Roy, or Lucas?

I picked up Ike recently and I don't have the DLC, so I don't know the matchups, or have any practice against them whatsoever. Oh mighty Smashboards, share with me your knowledge.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Are there any tips for fighting Ryu, Roy, or Lucas?

I picked up Ike recently and I don't have the DLC, so I don't know the matchups, or have any practice against them whatsoever. Oh mighty Smashboards, share with me your knowledge.

vs. Roy - He's a bit faster in terms of aerials and close quarters so avoid approaching and fighting up close if you can.

Roy's swords sweet spot is towards the center of the blade so playing the spacing and footsie game is the best way to go. The biggest advantage we have over him is our range. Use jabs to push him away if he gets too close for comfort.

He's also really easy to combo since he's on the heavy side so take advantage of that as well. His edge guarding options are a bit limited as well compared to ours.

However, be wary when recovering with Aether as he can get a free counter near the ledge if you aren't careful.

It's more than likely a slightly unfavored MU but I personally consider it an even MU once you familiarize yourself with it.

 

[SirLoin]

OK, recently I have been having trouble with Ness in a local tournament I occasionally go to. Can anyone help me with the match up... I don't know if I should use Ike against him or just use another character.

 

[Mario766]

Don't get grabbed.

 

[Arrei]

I'd say it's even at worst. Might even be slightly in Ike's favor. Ness' strongest tools against Ike are his grabs for racking damage and the Bthrow kill, PK Fire for leading into said grab, and his Fair for stuffing our aerial options. Ness is also floaty, making our combos stop working sooner. But he's not very fast and has poor reach outside of PK Fire and Fair, so an Ike that stays mostly grounded and either blocks or jumps over incoming PK Fires can punish him pretty easily. Once Ness is sent offstage, Ike shouldn't have too much trouble securing the kill - his safest option, challenging you with Fair, can still be Eruptioned or read with an FSmash or USmash, and PK Thunder is both extremely telegraphed and takes long enough that he could fake you out into releasing Eruption prematurely and still wind up eating a second one. Do watch his intended trajectory, though. A good Ness will know how to slam himself into the stage to fake you out.

 

[Wonderguard]

I think this MU isn't bad for Ike, I haven't had a whole lot of trouble with it thus far. While getting hit by PK Fire is a pain in the butt (in general), fair and nair seem to pretty well stuff any options Ness has, so just being wary of when you think they'll throw out the PK Fire or otherwise go for a grab, as recovering against ness can be a bit of a pain if they're on top of covering your options. Make sure to fair the PK Thunder away if they try that against your horizontal recovery, else you'll just eat some free damage and still have to come back.

But yea, as Arrei noted, this matchup is particularly good for us when you get Ness offstage one way or another, as a well timed Eruption beats, iirc, all of Ness's options coming back. A runoff fair to disrupt the PKT2 could also work, but that has it's associated risks, but is also easier to pull off if the Ness isn't careful. Overall just play this MU cautiously, as Ness' moves can be painful but do have a bit of endlag which you can punish with a grab combo, which can really start to hurt ness especially at high % when you start to get edgeguard situations going!

Last note: Mix up your DI if they downthrow you. While Ness has followups no matter what you DI, if they consistently are going for fair chains, DI in, as youll go straight up and they'll fly right past you, possibly allowing for you to get a bair in if they aren't careful. At higher %s though I'd stick with DI'ing away (if they dont go for backthrows immediately) so you don't get bopped by an Upair.

 

[SirLoin]

Thank you both Arrei and Wonderguard for the help! I really appreciate it!

 

[WorstGanonWorld]

Are there any tips for fighting Ryu, Roy, or Lucas?

I picked up Ike recently and I don't have the DLC, so I don't know the matchups, or have any practice against them whatsoever. Oh mighty Smashboards, share with me your knowledge.

1). Keep him out with your superior range, Roy struggles against characters that make it hard for him to get in. Dtilt, Ftilt, SH Fair/Bair are excellent to keep him at bay. He also needs to be really close in order to optimize his damage output which makes his approaches rather unsafe, especially since none of his moves autocancel. Jab is great if he happens to get too close (Our Jab is faster than his).

2).Ike has the better grab game. He usually gets easy 20% everytime he lands a grab while Roy has to rely on reads to get something off a grab. Also, take advantage of Roy´s crazy falling speed. At 90-100%, a Upthrow->Fair combo can kill Roy if he´s around the ledge.

3.) Ike edgeguards Roy much better than Roy edgeguards Ike. Roy´s got no answer to a well timed Eruption that will kill him at around 80-90%. Make sure you practice that, it´s really useful.

I think that this MU is slightly in Ike´s favor simply because Ike can keep Roy out really well.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

So having run into the first good Diddy Kong on FG in a long while, it's become apparent that I sorely need practice on the Dobby Kong matchup. I'd like some tips, if anyone has some to share.

First order of business being his throw combos - even though Hoo-Hah was nerfed, it seems as though Doody Kong remains able to true combo most of his aerials following a throw up to pretty high percent, like 80ish. It doesn't seem to matter which way I DI, as whether I go left or right he's still able to follow up before I can airdodge or jump. What's the proper action to make when grabbed?

Also, how do I get in on Daddy Kong? I've found him surprisingly difficult to punish. As long as he's holding a banana, I can't risk anything or he can slip me up and get a grab or smash before I even become able to choose a getup option, but I can't just sit in my shield forever, either. Monkey Flip lets him quickly and unpredictably choose between grabbing me or throwing a kick at my face. I'm not sure how I should approach here.

Finally, on the topic of Monkey Flip, aerial chasing and edgeguarding. Monkey Flip gives Dolby Kong a quick escape option that allows him to either get away, change direction, or simply sail over our heads. How should I go about pursuing the advantage state with that kind of mobility under his belt?

Did you watch my match with Stingers? It's a prime example of how not to fight Diddy. I would argue it's Ike's worst matchup, maybe at the same level as Sheik.

 

[san.]

Did you watch my match with Stingers? It's a prime example of how not to fight Diddy. I would argue it's Ike's worst matchup, maybe at the same level as Sheik.

I think it's pretty dang bad onstage, but we can make it up with even small offstage reads. It's dangerous to monkey flip towards Ike and Diddy's upB can be countered or eruption'd. I think Ike should concentrate his efforts by playing conservatively onstage and pushing his reward whenever Diddy is offstage or above him.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

How do you deal with Mega Man? I was playing online and I could barely touch him because of his leaf shield. I couldn't just not approach him, because he would've just camped until time, probably. The times I could avoid his projectiles, I'd get hit by the leaf shield surrounding him and then get grabbed.

 

[Arrei]

Leaf Shield can't do jack against disjoints and takes forever to finish being used. Fair, Nair, Ftilt or dash attack him if he's stopping his lemon walling to bring it up.

He also can't attack with Leaf Shield up except for throwing a picked up Metal Blade so just use the time to hover around him and see if you can't get a hit in.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Focus on your ground game. Shield and dash or walk towards him. If you see him approach, he's going for a grab. Jab him. Mega Man does horribly offstage, and it's when he's recovering that you have your best chance at taking him down.

Do NOT take him to Town and City or Battlefield. He will use the Air Tornado (Uair) to combo and try to score an early kill on you.

 

[ReroRero]

Do you think some matchup got easier or even give us the advantage since last patch ?

 

[Arrei]

Probably too soon to tell. I faced a good Sheik on FG yesterday and she was still as nimble and dangerous as ever.

I think FSmash is safer on slower opponents now, though? Certainly not on Sheik, but I've been able to avoid punishes on block by immediately going for evasive maneuvers lately.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

What do you think of Mario and Yoshi? Im a Megaman main and a Lirby secondary

 

[Quickhero]

I think it's safe to say MK is one of the very few match-ups that Ike has a really difficult time against. Everybody else he manages fine, and besides MK , I can't think of any universal bad MUs.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

How in the unholy blue **** do we deal with Meta Knight?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

By having more than one set played against him ever amongst the top 3 Ikes?

 

[-RedX-]

Don't get hit by Dash Attack.
At percents where Uair strings start converting from Dash Attack, take the grabs.
You can DI away from Dthrow and MK doesn't get much.

 

[04r]

So having run into the first good Diddy Kong on FG in a long while, it's become apparent that I sorely need practice on the Dobby Kong matchup. I'd like some tips, if anyone has some to share.

First order of business being his throw combos - even though Hoo-Hah was nerfed, it seems as though Doody Kong remains able to true combo most of his aerials following a throw up to pretty high percent, like 80ish. It doesn't seem to matter which way I DI, as whether I go left or right he's still able to follow up before I can airdodge or jump. What's the proper action to make when grabbed?

Also, how do I get in on Daddy Kong? I've found him surprisingly difficult to punish. As long as he's holding a banana, I can't risk anything or he can slip me up and get a grab or smash before I even become able to choose a getup option, but I can't just sit in my shield forever, either. Monkey Flip lets him quickly and unpredictably choose between grabbing me or throwing a kick at my face. I'm not sure how I should approach here.

Finally, on the topic of Monkey Flip, aerial chasing and edgeguarding. Monkey Flip gives Dolby Kong a quick escape option that allows him to either get away, change direction, or simply sail over our heads. How should I go about pursuing the advantage state with that kind of mobility under his belt?

Note on Monkey Flip.

Nair.

I've played abysmal to decent Diddy's and I've yet to not see 4/5 Monkey Flips coming and punished them with nair.

 

[san.]

I didn't respect dash attack, trying to bait things out too much, and didn't know how to DI the uairs. You can also platform camp on other stages. Problem solved? lol

 

[SimplyClutchh]

Would the correct way to DI into MK's uairs be to DI into him? I heard that from somewhere, but wasn't sure if it was right. Also, do you guys know if SDI works better when caught in similar strings vs. regular DI?

 

[PyroTakun]

I played quite a few friendlies vs Unknown (a MK player) yesterday, I think the MU is better than I originally thought but it still sucks.

Defensive play here is the key; you can't throw out random moves because MK will punish you, and he punishes Ike HARD. I'd also recommend trying to stay grounded for the most part because the last thing you want is MK to catch you in the air. Stick with your jabs, grabs, and titls and try to use aerials for follow-ups and punishes. Be aware that any mistake you make could be a string of Up-Airs followed by an Up-B from MK.

 

[Arrei]

Hmm... I have no idea how to fight a good Bowser Jr. How do I approach, specifically, getting through his walling with Fair? What can I punish? What do I do when he's above me planning to use one of his Dair combos, if he aims to land behind me so I can't shield grab him?


Also, the Ryu matchup seems more annoying than I thought, entirely because of his Focus Attack dash cancel and True Shoryuken. Focus Attack allows him to stay mobile while having armored frames, and True Shoryuken can be used out of a dash to bop us when we go for an aerial approach. Since Ike has very few multi-hit attacks, it becomes an infuriating guessing game of trying to time when it's safe to go for an attack. So how do I deal with a Ryu using lots of Focus Attack?

 

[04r]

Also, the Ryu matchup seems more annoying than I thought, entirely because of his Focus Attack dash cancel and True Shoryuken. Focus Attack allows him to stay mobile while having armored frames, and True Shoryuken can be used out of a dash to bop us when we go for an aerial approach. Since Ike has very few multi-hit attacks, it becomes an infuriating guessing game of trying to time when it's safe to go for an attack. So how do I deal with a Ryu using lots of Focus Attack?

For the True Shoryu, use safe empty hops and bait out his approaches. Try to choose flat and high ceiling stages, low platforms can make shoryu's impossible to punish. Punishing FAC is much like punishing them in Street Fighter: anticipating and reading your opponent's habits. Running up and air dodging -past- Ryu is decent, as if he commits to a turn around FA, you can PS in time and punish. If he dashes back you can jab/grab. I've had some success vs. FG Ryu's with running past and pivot grabbing them.