Data Prepare Yourself (Ike Match-up thread)

[Arrei]

I don't have as much experience against Zamus as I should, but rolling through her, used sparingly, seems to work out pretty well as a defensive option. I know you should never roll away, at least, because against her grab the roll does nothing. And despite her Dair being functionally identical to Sonic and Shiek's, it is much less punishable, so stick to quick punishes if she happens to pull that out. If she's going to catch you in an Uair Up Special combo, DI down to greatly reduce the risk of dying off the top, but higher than around 60% you're probably dead. I also seem to anticlimactically fall out the bottom of the attack sometimes with SDI, usually if I got buried or stunned on the ground and she tries to kill me with it.

For Shiek... Pick a god, and pray. Also shield.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Any tips for Zero Suit, ROB and Sheik ? For ROB I watch the grand final with Ryo vs 8 bit man but I don't know how he can glide like this when throwing items.

No Idea about Zero Suit and Sheik though. I know that I should avoid getting grab at all cost but that's all I know.

From my experience, throwing out jabs against an aerial Sheik is very bad since her Fair can simply beat them out. You have to stay on the ground as much as possible and not challenge her. DTilts and pivot FTilts are very helpful, and your grabs will combo her all the way past 80%.

Sheik's biggest weapon against you isn't her strength in the neutral, but getting you offstage. If you're offstage, she can stay in the air almost as long as she likes just to see to it that you're dead. Stay on stage as much as possible. Throwing you offstage can also lead her into Needle camping your Up B or Grenade so you blow it up and die.

 

[neil2020]

Any tips for Zero Suit, ROB and Sheik ? For ROB I watch the grand final with Ryo vs 8 bit man but I don't know how he can glide like this when throwing items.

No Idea about Zero Suit and Sheik though. I know that I should avoid getting grab at all cost but that's all I know.

Idk about Zss, but I play a good # of sheik and Rob players in my ares.

For the glide toss there's a vid by MySmashCorner on youtube that explains it. Here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3_vOtY5kCc

For Rob:

If you grab the gyro you can perform the same technique. The main key to eliminating rob is dealing with the gyro. If you master the glide toss it can lead into some pretty sweet setups as we can combo Rob HARD because of his weight and size. One trap to look for is he can use the gyro to cover a lot of your ledge options, so mix up your ledge recovery. I find Jump -> immediate QD from the edge to be a nice mixup in that matchup. Also an instand counter onto the stage can nicely punish an usmash-happy Rob. Aside from that all you have to watch out for are his lzr snipes on your recovery and you can beat him. Our aerials all outrange rob's, and our neutral game I think is better than Rob's (when you neutralize gyro) because we can punish him and our sword outranges him significantly. Just be careful of getting grabbed by Rob for his "Beepboop" combo which can kill pretty early and learn to DI it correctly. Here's a vid by the Beefy Smash Doods on Youtube (again, I know) that will help you survive longer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_46_2BtOM

That along with general good play should put you beating rob in no time.

For Sheik:

The main thing here is to play defensively. It's definitely an uphill battle (like WAY uphil), but if you keep this in mind, you can get some mileage on Sheik. If that means that you take a few needles at low % it's ok, it's better than getting grabbed and faired for days into bouncing fish. Plus Sheik starts getting really scared when Ike gets a little rage, and she HAS to kill/gimp you early because at high percent she has to commit to a hard read to kill you. Our big strength here is our weight and general kill power: We are heavy but mobile, and we can kill her INSANELY early. She combos us pretty hard, but our grab punishes on her are pretty heavy as well because she's a fastfaller. We also get pretty good mileage from platforms because missed techs can be death for sheik, and we have good coverage over platforms. I'll break down my two basic strats for a sheik matchup below:

Neutral:
Patience is your watchword here. Try and bait approaches from Sheik, and don't stress about eating a few needles at low %. Sheik beats us hard in neutral, but wait for her to fall into a rhythm and punish with grabs, dtilt/fair, Ike stuff. With the reduced lag on our ftilt, a pivot ftlit can be a nice surprise when they chase us down when playing footsies. Use platforms to your advantage for movement. Bait and punish. Ftilt also acts as a decent edgeguard agains sheik as the down -angled version can catch her recovery if she messes up (when you get that far). Just don't approach unless you're absolutely sure you can land it. Make her come to you and play your game. I've also killed Sheik with a spotdodge -> Utilt multiple times.

Edgeguarding:
Sheik is SO hard to edgeguard. BF and Vanish are really hard to take care of. Eruption can be a fantastic edgeguard for both scenarios if Sheik recovers low, and ftilt can catch a missed ledge snap. I don't usually go offstage after Sheik bc she can go way farther than us and things can get scary quick.
When Sheik gets up off the ledge, Utilt covers Jump and regular getup, and getup attack if timed/spaced correctly and also kills at a respectable percent (like 110). Usmash also covers a BUNCH of options, so if I have a lead I like to throw this out at the ledge to scare the living daylights out of Sheik/hard read.

Hope this helps.

 

[Arrei]

Oh yeah, a couple more things about Sheik. Never, and I mean NEVER, reflexively air dodge after a throw at kill percent. Above all else you must stay patient and watch Sheik's movements to see what she's going for. Her lack of kill power is just about her only weakness, but an air dodge read will let her end you with a sweetspotted Usmash or a Vanish. DI away and watch what she's going to do.

Also go lab the timing for Vanish. It is rare that she'll be forced to use the teleport as she has ridiculous aerial mobility between her air speed, Bouncing Fish, and the jump before vanishing that allows her to immediately sweetspot the ledge, but if she is, due to being a teleport the timing for catching her at the ledge will always the same, making it a great time to end the stock.

 

[ReroRero]

Thanks a lot guys for all the tips, it will help a lot !

But I have a still a problem with glide tossing, I can't throw it as far as Ryo does https://youtu.be/pwB1DtdssJs?t=34m33s here

 

[neil2020]

Thanks a lot guys for all the tips, it will help a lot !

But I have a still a problem with glide tossing, I can't throw it as far as Ryo does https://youtu.be/pwB1DtdssJs?t=34m33s here

I think there were some janky things going on with the dreamland stage if you ask me, but practice makes perfect lol.

 

[san.]

Perform a DACUS input, but with an item in hand.

 

[Arrei]

What's the proper way to deal with Mega Man's Leaf Shield? It logically sounds like it'd be no problem for Ike's sword but it seems all too easy for Mega Man to tackle me head-on, disrupt the startup of an attack or take advantage of endlag, and just flinch Ike for that brief moment he needs to get a grab in. Do I just back off and let it expire?

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

What's the proper way to deal with Mega Man's Leaf Shield? It logically sounds like it'd be no problem for Ike's sword but it seems all too easy for Mega Man to tackle me head-on, disrupt the startup of an attack or take advantage of endlag, and just flinch Ike for that brief moment he needs to get a grab in. Do I just back off and let it expire?

Jab. Jab as much as you can.

It will screw him over because you'll be trading clanks with it, and thus resetting your jab while he lacks offensive frame advantage, giving you more jabs to hit him with.

 

[Arrei]

Hrm, when I try jab I often get hit and turned around, and wind up jabbing the air while he attacks me from behind.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Jabs have worked for me. If you're trying to play safe, best to just shield it. If he throws it, free hit.

Meta-Knight is an absolute pain, though. I've always banned Duck Hunt and Town & City to avoid the UThrow kills. However, those are avoidable. I'm talking to Orca right now and he says it's best to ban Delfino Plaza and Halberd since MK gets stupid kills very early due to the low ceiling, which is why Sect picked Delfino on me on Game 5.

Orca is a Meta-Knight main and #10 on Georgia's PR, having beaten Player-1 at Tipped Off 11. I'll be doing some friendlies with him and theorycrafting. What I find, I'll add to this post.

 

[Crelrn]

Jabs have worked for me. If you're trying to play safe, best to just shield it. If he throws it, free hit.

Meta-Knight is an absolute pain, though. I've always banned Duck Hunt and Town & City to avoid the UThrow kills. However, those are avoidable. I'm talking to Orca right now and he says it's best to ban Delfino Plaza and Halberd since MK gets stupid kills very early due to the low ceiling, which is why Sect picked Delfino on me on Game 5.

Orca is a Meta-Knight main and #10 on Georgia's PR, having beaten Player-1 at Tipped Off 11. I'll be doing some friendlies with him and theorycrafting. What I find, I'll add to this post.

I play two MKs regularly in weeklies and can put in my two cents. Stage choice is key against MK, at all costs try to avoid stages with low ceilings. Easy shuttle loop combos will kill us off the top super early. MK will want to mix up dash attack and dash grab, since either on connection will put us in a bad position. Challenging MK's approaches with jab and d-tilt is super important, as well as calling out MK's run up shield with retreating pivot grabs. It's tough to edgeguard MK, so go for safe punishes on stage instead.

 

[NeoArcadiaX_SM]

Hey guys, it's SM. I just want to share my thoughts on playing against MK.

In neutral:
After playing against Larry's MK (yes, he has a really solid MK) I was able to figure out a few things Ike can do. Always look out for dash attack and dash grab, outside of those two options MK doesn't really have much against us. I think our best tools in neutral would be jab 1 & 2, AC Fair, and pivot grabs. These are all good options to wall out MK's approach options. AC fair will reach MK for how close he has to hit us with dash attack/grab. My set vs Ito at EVO was brutal since I kept spacing tilts (MK can just wait for our cool down and punish). I think reverse nair to cross up MK's shield is alright as long as we are smart with it. I wouldn't recommend using anything else unless you know you'll be safe.

When we are getting hit by the uair strings, I am pretty sure we have to do our best to mix up our DI. I think if we DI away we'll be able to live longer but overall if the MK player is consistent with their uair strings, it's unavoidable. I heard Ryuga was doing well against Abadango in friendlies at Big House so that's reassuring.

 

[neil2020]

In my experience dtilt-> as many juggles as possible against MK is effective. Against ike MK doesn't land very easy. I try to keep him in the air above me as much as possible w/fair, uair, utilt, etc.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Sect is really good at dash-powershielding DTilt though, which gives MK a free punish.

 

[Crelrn]

Sect is really good at dash-powershielding DTilt though, which gives MK a free punish.

You can crouch as if you were going to d-tilt and then pivot grab if you want to get super mindgamey there hahaha

 

[san.]

Sect is really good at dash-powershielding DTilt though, which gives MK a free punish.

You have to space yourself where if they dash, you can dtilt them before they can bring their shield up. This is typically right outside of their ftilt/fsmash range.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I'm most likely going to be using a pocket Mario for future Sheik encounters. The matchup is horribly unfavorable for Ike, but while I'm training him to take down Sheik players, I have Mario at the ready. Unless we get a good Sheik balance patch in December, I don't see it favoring us much more, especially if the Sheik players catch onto our tricks.

 

[Crelrn]

I'm most likely going to be using a pocket Mario for future Sheik encounters. The matchup is horribly unfavorable for Ike, but while I'm training him to take down Sheik players, I have Mario at the ready. Unless we get a good Sheik balance patch in December, I don't see it favoring us much more, especially if the Sheik players catch onto our tricks.

Mario's a good secondary for covering Ike's bad match ups. I've been messing around with the Doc recently, but have yet to pull him out in bracket due to lack of Sheiks in our state.

Would Doc or Mario have a better match up specific to Sheik?

 

[Macedonian]

Mario has a much better matchup vs sheik then dr cause sheik can carry doc off stage really easily and gimp like stupidly easy, Mario auto combos Work great on sheik and less so with doc. Mario also has two Bairs in a shorthop which I find to help keep sheik in check more then the one of Doc.

There is more as well such as some doc gimmicks like edgegaurd with downB and ooS upB punishes but those seem to never come into play verses sheik since she does not have laggy moves and in general a safe recovery.

Doc might have a slightly easier time killing though.

I play way more Mario then doc so I hope I'm not to biased in writing this but my gut tells me that doc should always just be taken of stage and die verses sheik

 

[Funkermonster]

What do you think of the matchups (mostly Mega Man) and how should I fight your character? I know very little about Ike as a whole and I've only faced 2 about good players with him in my lifetime, who both essentially destroyed me and I didn't know what to do, the other Ikes I've faced all come from For Glory and were either defeated by me simply because they were just bad players in general, or I lose and get unlucky or make a terrible decision. One of said players is now a Power-Ranked player in my state and there is a chance I might have to face him again, and if I still don't know his character by then, I'm going to be destroyed again. He's probably the character I have the least amount of knowledge about: I don't know his strengths or weaknesses, his statistics, or even his general playstyle and it'll come back to bite me sooner or later.

 

[Arrei]

I think Mega Man's got the disadvantage, despite packing a million projectiles. He has an easier time racking up damage with his walling, but he has a real hard time getting the kill. Meanwhile, he's heavy enough that Ike's Uthrow -> Fair combo works for a really long time and once he's offstage, his limited recovery makes him Eruption bait as long as Ike can watch for and avoid incoming defensive projectiles.

Greninja's probably got the advantage. How much, I can't say, but he's quick and has a lot of combo options, and he's got that damn Hydro Pump to mess with Aether if he knows how to aim it right.

 

[neil2020]

I think Greninja is disadvantaged. we have range on him in the neutral, and his hurtbox is big enough that he gets combo'ed hard by our grab combos. That plus the fact that he's a fastfaller don't bode well for him, and he's fairly light meaning he dies pretty early from just about any move in our arsenal (utilt, bair, dair, ftilt, etc.). The only advantages he has (should he abuse them) are HP gimps and shuriken as a projectile, but even those aren't that hard to deal with if your recovery and perfect shield games are on point. He is a quick character but Ike isn't that slow either.

 

[Funkermonster]

I think Greninja is disadvantaged. we have range on him in the neutral, and his hurtbox is big enough that he gets combo'ed hard by our grab combos. That plus the fact that he's a fastfaller don't bode well for him, and he's fairly light meaning he dies pretty early from just about any move in our arsenal (utilt, bair, dair, ftilt, etc.). The only advantages he has (should he abuse them) are HP gimps and shuriken as a projectile, but even those aren't that hard to deal with if your recovery and perfect shield games are on point. He is a quick character but Ike isn't that slow either.

Um....Greninja isn't light at all, he's a middleweight character whose weight is very close to Sonic and Pac-Man's and we're about the 30-32th heaviest. And while its true that we are are a fast faller, a fall speed chart I read says that you are too, and you're not the only one with combos here:

• Nair > Almost Anything (Dtilt+,Jab, Utilt+, Fsmash, Usmash)
• Nair > Footstool > Dair > Nair > Another footstool or Usmash
• Dtilt > Dash Attack+, Fsmash, Dash Grab, Usmash, SideB (not really a combo, but if I read an air dodge you're dead)
• Dthrow > Fair, a guaranteed kill setup I might add at higher %
• Uthrow > Uair, SideB (again, an airdodge bait, but a lethal one)
• Falling Uair > Dsmash/Fsmash, or a Dair
• Utilt > Usmash, Bair, Uair (another guaranteed kill setup)

Looks like you didn't know just how strong our own combos can be, while you may be able to combo us the same is true in reverse.

___
And about Eruption killing Mega Man, don't you need to charge up Eruption for it to hit under the ledge or even have enough power to kill us? Can't you be hit out of the charge? If that's the case, couldn't I just shoot lemons, metal blades, or even a crash bomb to get around that? And while Mega Man's kill options aren't the best, we do have kill setups in Fullhop Diagonal Metal Blade > Mega Upper (even if you shield it we still get a grab) and DICIT leads into many of his kill options as well, and I personally feel Mega Man might climb a few spots up on the tiers as more Mega Men master it (its very tough to pull off tho). This is just theorycraft, but I hear Ike's recovery is fairly limited himself, and I hypothesize that it might be possible to screw with your recoveries using Metal Blades, Dair, Bair, or even lemons.


Again, I still don't have a whole lot of experience with Ike so I don't mean to outright disagree with the matchup (although I can't really imagine Ike being a threat to Mega Man, at least not compared to our 4 actual bad MUs), but I feel that some things stated are incorrect or questionable.

 

[Arrei]

Eruption covers the ledge at all power levels, and rather quickly charges up to kill power if Mega has 90% or so on him. Hitting Ike out of it with a projectile is Mega Man's only defensive option against it, hence my point above about Ike watching for a defensive projectile. If Ike can predict when Mega is going to fire his projectile, he can jump to avoid it and begin charging then. We also won't go for Eruption if you're close enough to lemon us, most commonly Ike will swat you offstage with an Fair, Bair, or Ftilt, which will send you far enough that you're forced to go low, or a Bthrow which sends you on a very disadvantageous low angle that consequently limits your options and could also spell your doom with an Fair should Ike read your attempt.

As for screwing with Ike's own recovery, Ike's recovery is linear but having two options makes a world of difference here. Aether can get screwed hard, as usual, because the fact that it can't ledge snap on a perfectly aimed jump (sure would like that buff any day now, Sakurai) means you could intercept him with Fsmash rather easily. However, Mega's stronger attacks almost all send the opponent at a pretty high angle, correct? Ike has plenty of time to charge Quick Draw unmolested out there and decide whether to release it early or late depending on how Mega reacts.

 

[Crelrn]

I personally find Megaman to be a difficult match up due to the multitude of options he has to gimp us/overwhelming us in neutral/stuffing the majority of our edgeguard attempts with lemons.

 

[PyroTakun]

The thing about the Mega Man MU is that most players I've seen don't play him the same way. I've been getting more MU experience playing Lemon's MM, and in the right hands he's a real pain for Ike.

By far the most annoying tool he has are the pellets, especially if he's walling out and jumping back with them. Once you get in close enough, you have to watch out for F-Airs, B-Airs, and grabs. Once you get past all of that, you need to be weary of.... pellets.

The move comes out pretty quick, either frame 3 or 4 can't quite remember right now, but it's a decent "get off me" option in addition to it's other uses. He also has Metal Blade setups and Leaf Shield, but those are easy enough to avoid.

You're going to have to mix up your approaches against MM. Dash into shield, double-jumping, and aerials if you're close enough to land a hit since they'll eat through pellets. Once you're in it's not too bad; jabs and grabs work wonders.

Also, be careful when recovering. A well-timed F-Smash from Mega Man will easily end the stock

 

[neil2020]

Um....Greninja isn't light at all, he's a middleweight character whose weight is very close to Sonic and Pac-Man's and we're about the 30-32th heaviest. And while its true that we are are a fast faller, a fall speed chart I read says that you are too, and you're not the only one with combos here:

• Nair > Almost Anything (Dtilt+,Jab, Utilt+, Fsmash, Usmash)
• Nair > Footstool > Dair > Nair > Another footstool or Usmash
• Dtilt > Dash Attack+, Fsmash, Dash Grab, Usmash, SideB (not really a combo, but if I read an air dodge you're dead)
• Dthrow > Fair, a guaranteed kill setup I might add at higher %
• Uthrow > Uair, SideB (again, an airdodge bait, but a lethal one)
• Falling Uair > Dsmash/Fsmash, or a Dair
• Utilt > Usmash, Bair, Uair (another guaranteed kill setup)

Looks like you didn't know just how strong our own combos can be, while you may be able to combo us the same is true in reverse.

___
And about Eruption killing Mega Man, don't you need to charge up Eruption for it to hit under the ledge or even have enough power to kill us? Can't you be hit out of the charge? If that's the case, couldn't I just shoot lemons, metal blades, or even a crash bomb to get around that? And while Mega Man's kill options aren't the best, we do have kill setups in Fullhop Diagonal Metal Blade > Mega Upper (even if you shield it we still get a grab) and DICIT leads into many of his kill options as well, and I personally feel Mega Man might climb a few spots up on the tiers as more Mega Men master it (its very tough to pull off tho). This is just theorycraft, but I hear Ike's recovery is fairly limited himself, and I hypothesize that it might be possible to screw with your recoveries using Metal Blades, Dair, Bair, or even lemons.


Again, I still don't have a whole lot of experience with Ike so I don't mean to outright disagree with the matchup (although I can't really imagine Ike being a threat to Mega Man, at least not compared to our 4 actual bad MUs), but I feel that some things stated are incorrect or questionable.

I said "fairly light"
Anyone who isn't heavier than Ike risks dying super early from Ike's kill options. That's all I meant to say.

 

[Macedonian]

mega man is a strange matchup. I find it very nice that he has very few projectiles that do not travel linearly which lets me feel pretty comfortable coming in for a diagnal air approach. I naturally have an air basis and I have ate a lot of uptilts, smashes, and upairs, but I've learned how these are all pretty avoidable. However the walling with lemons gets in the way of air play and should be handled with a bit more grounded shielding and dodging.

I have found the most annoying thing about this matchup to be mega's bair. Comes out quick and the way the angles work it beats out our Fair.

 

[Rucent]

The Sonic Match Up Thread is currently discussing Sonic vs Ike! We would love it if you gave us your input on the match up!

http://smashboards.com/threads/soni...4-25-pac-man-ike.390575/page-10#post-20519600

Thank you! :D

 

[Dabos]

What would be the best way to approach Olimar or Pikachu?

 

[PyroTakun]

Alright, stole a table from the Sonic MU Thread and switched it around for Ike, it's a blank slate for now though.

I want to get everyone's input on how it should be done. Should we do ratios (Ex 50:50, 45:55, etc) or should we do Positives and negatives? (Ex +1, -1, etc)

Personally I'm leaning towards positives and negatives.

 

[Crelrn]

Alright, stole a table from the Sonic MU Thread and switched it around for Ike, it's a blank slate for now though.

I want to get everyone's input on how it should be done. Should we do ratios (Ex 50:50, 45:55, etc) or should we do Positives and negatives? (Ex +1, -1, etc)

Personally I'm leaning towards positives and negatives.

positives and negatives

 

[Hanku Hirru]

Positives and negatives. Ratio just feels too finite and doesn't encapsulate all the little victories and struggles that one could accurately outline with a list of pros and cons to the match as opposed to numbers.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Mario's a good secondary for covering Ike's bad match ups. I've been messing around with the Doc recently, but have yet to pull him out in bracket due to lack of Sheiks in our state.

Would Doc or Mario have a better match up specific to Sheik?

Mario for sure. Speaking of which, Mario also covers Ike's bad matchup against Meta-Knight. I feel that Ike vs. MK would be more even, but MK's Uair Up B combo kills Ike as early as 40%. Meanwhile, Sect told me Mario is about 50/50 with MK, if not slight advantage in Mario's favor.

So that's Sheik and Meta-Knight he covers. I feel the only other bad matchups would be Diddy and Mario.

 

[Macedonian]

Mario does solid verses fox, diddy as nd projectile spammers which can sometime give me trouble as well. ****ing Lucas for some reason kills the **** out of my Ike

Idk though I'm not convinced any of Ike's matchups are that bad. I may still be honeymooning with Ike but I hated Mario verses ness or Mario verses Marth, it's crazy to me to think I feel more rounded in my Ike then Mario now.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Mario does solid verses fox, diddy as nd projectile spammers which can sometime give me trouble as well. ****ing Lucas for some reason kills the **** out of my Ike

Idk though I'm not convinced any of Ike's matchups are that bad. I may still be honeymooning with Ike but I hated Mario verses ness or Mario verses Marth, it's crazy to me to think I feel more rounded in my Ike then Mario now.

Honeymooning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV9N-e-MaLI

Vinnie's an outstanding player. There's no question about it. However, even against a mediocre Sheik, a good Ike has serious problems due to her ridiculous Fair range and number of ways to gimp you offstage.

 

[Macedonian]

Truth be told rango I watched that match live and was rooting for you!

Like, I know sheik is a pain in the ass, but I don't think it's worse then - 1 is it? Since we need so little to kill her.

I still felt at a disadvantage when I played Mario only in the MU.


My honeymoon period got a huge kick to the face this week, mainly by two mega mans, one of them being Felix from Huston, kicked the **** out of me. Zss, sheik, mega man, and Even took link have been on my mind as disadvantaged matchups. But I'm still unsure.

 

[PyroTakun]

Truth be told rango I watched that match live and was rooting for you!

Like, I know sheik is a pain in the ***, but I don't think it's worse then - 1 is it? Since we need so little to kill her.

I still felt at a disadvantage when I played Mario only in the MU.


My honeymoon period got a huge kick to the face this week, mainly by two mega mans, one of them being Felix from Huston, kicked the **** out of me. Zss, sheik, mega man, and Even took link have been on my mind as disadvantaged matchups. But I'm still unsure.

ZSS and Shiek are definitely disadvantaged, not too sure about Mega Man and Tink yet.

 

[Crelrn]

ZSS and Shiek are definitely disadvantaged, not too sure about Mega Man and Tink yet.

haven't played any notable Tinks, but I haven't had too much problem with them. Mega Man on the other hand is definitely not in our favor.