Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[Shadowplusle]

Well i appreciate your comment about pokemon wiseguy. true it is easy to make fun of, but yeah i like pokemon and proud of it. ur a good guy. a wiseguy to be more precise.

 

[Arteen]

I'm glad you asked.

BECAUSE THEY GAVE PRIME 3 AN 8.5/10 - EVEN LOWER THAN THE 8.8 THEY GAVE TWILIGHT PRINCES!!!

And we hates them for it.... we hates them forever!!!!

*Ahem* So, yeah. Light your torches and sharpen those pitchforks - we're going to Gamespot HQ.

Gamespot always seems to rate games 0.5 points lower than other sites. Of course, they also have valid points as well. From what I've played of it I agree that, "Corruption's... conservative design sometimes seems like less of a sprawling Metroid adventure and more of a straightforward first-person shooter." It's fun and all, and it's sprinkled full of fun Metroidy elements, but the game is too segemented, so it doesn't feel as much like an adventure as Prime 1 or even 2.

I like Prime 1 the most so far (3rd favorite game of all time) because all the areas were interconnected so well, and the player often had to go back and forth through the different areas to progress through the game. In 2 and especially 3, you go to area A, collect various powerups, defeat the main boss for that area, then go on to the next area and repeat, infrequently returning to pick up a few missed powerups. It's just too straightforward. Beating an area and just moving on works fine in other games, but that's not what Metroid is about. In other Metroid games including Prime 1, the player would frequently have to travel to different areas to collect the next powerup, instead of spending a long time in just one area.

For example, in Prime 1, after beating the boss in Chozo Ruins to get the varia suit, the player had to then go through Magmoor to Phendrana to get the next one (boost ball) and then back to Tallon Overworld to get the space jump boots, then back to Phendrana again. There wasn't any specified goal to essentially "beat" one area then move on; the player progressed in that way because that is how the power ups are laid out.

I was dissappointed that Prime 2 was set up in a way that you go to Agon Wastes, get a bunch of powerups, beat the boss, then go to Torvus, get a bunch of powerups, beat the boss, then go to Sanctuary, get a bunch of powerups, beat the boss, then go on an uninspired fetch quest more or less as a reason to force the player to go back through previous areas. I was hoping that Prime 3 would go back to the design where the player frequently traveled back and forth through different areas to get the next powerups. Instead, the areas aren't even connected together anymore. It resulted in the game feeling like a sequence of short missions, rather than a cohesive adventure. The game is still fun, but it doesn't feel like an adventure anymore.

I just got Prime 3 this morning and have been playin it non stop. But it got me thinkin, wouldn't the other hunters make great brawlers?

Not really. The problem with the hunters in both MP:H and MP3 is that they're all one-shot, replaceable characters with no real importance to the series as a whole. Also, there is nothing that sets any hunter in the games apart from any other. They more-or-less simply fill a gameplay or story need; they aren't fleshed out or developed in any way.

 

[Legolastom]

Im not supporting any Hunter but Arteen get 100% and complete MP3 and you may notice that one hunter MIGHT have a bigger significance than you think...

 

[Shadowplusle]

Yeah, does anyone else agree that jiggs should be brought back in, i dont want to be the only one.

 

[neoREgen]

This is a comment remix.

(on Zelda series)

I'm not saying that Midna should be made a permanent part of the roster, but I think her central role in the plot of TP has earned her a guest appearance at least.

Well, I'd be more approving of Midna if it didn't mean yet another Link. It'd just be weird if she were alone though, seeing as how she never is in Twilight Princess.
I faintly recall reading that you used to want her in her real form? That'd be cool, but highly improbable. But that's all conversation that's been had before, I'm sure.

If a second cartoony Zelda character is to be included, I really think that Tingle has the best chance. I know you hate him, but his appeared in the most games (other than the Triforce Trio) and he ever has his own spinoff series. Vaati may have been the main villian is three games - but two of them are the least played and most unpopular in the series (FS and FSA) so I doubt his chances.

Scientifically and objectively speaking, Vaati owns. Probably the greatest villian in a Nintendo game. Yeah, I said it. A Vaati-less Brawl is a fututre too bleak to contimplate. He MUST be in Brawl. He WILL be in Brawl! BLACK FREAKIN' VAATI FOR BRAWL!

I had to. I couldn't come up with anything else...

...maybe this... this is the feeling of defeat?
(*gets back up and brushes himself off*)

I don't know much about Vaati so I couldn't respond to your points about him if I wanted to but you seriously aren't giving Tingle enough credit.

Wait. You responded to Wiseguy, but I think you were talking to me- he stood up for Tingle.

Tingle has TWO games of his own one of which is soon to be international which is WAY more than Midna has (Oh wow she is the new helper character) so there really is no reason for her to be included before him. I would even go as far as saying that Tingle is the fourth mascot of Zelda right behind the triforce trio.

On this site, I read about the origins/backstory of Tingle, and it made me appreciate him, at least a little.
I still don't want him, and he's not going on my list, but if he got in I would no longer be sour about it.
Maybe he's just crazy enough to like. Maybe.

While I'm at it I might as well point out that since Sakurai loves retros that it would make perfect sense for him to add in a retro Zelda character like Skull Kid (with mask) or possibly even Ralph.

I wouldn't mind either of them, but I don't think they're really old enough to be considered retro.

Maybe Ralph is.


--------------------------
(on Fire Emblem series)

Agreed. BK has to compete with some strong contenders: Marth, Sigurd and even Miciaiah.

By the way, you should really play Fire Emblem PoR. You could probably find it for pretty cheap these days, and it's a direct prequel to the upcoming Wii game FE: Radiant Dawn. You won't find a better tactical RPG besides Fire Emblem.

(nod) I will seriously consider that- I suppose I'll have to play it in order to understand the appeal of Sigurd as well. And it'd be something to help hold me off before Brawl.

I worry as to what PoR becoming the standard will mean for Marth- Ike does not appear to be a suitable replacement.

Why? No tiara?

no- I'm going to miss Marth's sweeping vertical slashes.

... holy ****. He does have a tiara...
I... never knew... a tiara could look so cool.


---------
(on Lip)

Urgh... I undersatnd your reasoning, but come on! Lip is so lame, she makes Tingle look like Chuck Norris. She was specifically removed from the Puzzle Leauge games in Amercia because Nintendo concluded (correctly) that the Western gamers would not be able to stomache the level of Japanese-ness. Just say no.

There was a site I found (that I cannot find now at all)

Found it! -click me- (same as "this site" link under Tingle conversation above)

I'm sure someone cooler could go in her place, but if we had a roster of purely cool characters, it'd be so much different than what is already confirmed anyway- this is about fun, and sickeningly cute seems to walk hand-in-hand with fun. Oh, how I wish we were actually designing this game so we could compromise with the characters that make us say "Urgh..." and remove both Lip and Tingle.

If she brought a really unique fighting style, people might actually start to like her.

(sigh)

That set of comments was really hard to organize and respond to.

 

[Shadowplusle]

How do you get your own custom avatars on here. and does anyone actually think TIngle will make it a s a smash character

 

[Legolastom]

One second... how the hell did i post 52 times in this thread?

Meh another long weekend...

 

[Skyshroud]

A little comment about LoZ...

After watching the updates, it seems as if the LoZ portion of brawl is going to span their last several games. Link has been confirmed by the Dojo to be Twilight Princess updated in both the looks and moves departments. Zelda has been given her new TP look as well, but it doesn't seem likely that she has been given a moveset that has been updated TOO much and still appears heavily OoT based. (she appears to have many of the same moves, as well as no evidence of the rapier or other TP attacks) Also, as has already been stated, Eiji Aonuma had that conference where he hinted at Sheik being in SSBB, although it is controversial. Ganondorf has not been confirmed yet, but he is going to be in the game with an updated moveset, we just don't know what. The Link from Wind Waker is also heavily suspected to be in SSBB, which would give representation to not only Wind Waker, but the handhelds as well.

If this were to go as such, that means we would have TP, OoT, WW, and the handhelds represented. But, there is still another major Zelda game that hasn't been represented yet, Majora's Mask. If Sakurai intends on representing the zelda timeline, MM would need a rep. Since Ganondorf and WW Link, the characters we that have no hard evidence as to their moves, did not appear in MM, so there are only really two characters capable of representing MM, Skull Kid and Tingle. However, if Tingle were included, he would probably represent his own series as well as Wind Waker and handhelds. On top of this, we know Sakurai likes to include retro characters that he feels deserve respect. Skull Kid missed his chance at being part of Melee, but it seems to me that his chances of being included in Brawl just got kicked up a notch.

Doesn't anyone else notice this? I feel like I'm take crazy pills! But, perhaps, (actually probably) I'm just over-analyzing. Thoughts?

 

[Conker1]

Okay..............


Bowser Jr - Now I wouldn't absolutely hate it if he were in the game, i liked the little guy in Mario Kart. I won't be mad if he's in, I'll just be disappointed.

WW Link - The worst choice for a new character ever. Yes I played Wind Waker. Two of the same character is just a bad idea. I don't want him taking the place of a more unique character.

Munchlax - No.

Lucario - I just don't see the appeal of Lucario at all. He has no importance and is design is terrible. If he somehow gets into Brawl, perhaps he'll grow on me, but I'll hate him for taking a good spot.

Krystal - I really don't think she deserves it all. Especially if it means dumping Falco, the coolest Star Fox character by far. I also find her rather annoying. StarFox only needs 3 characters anyway.

Wolf - Same as Bowser Jr.. I won't be mad, just disappointed.

Black Knight - No, Fire Emblem doesn't need more than 2 characters, Ike and Marth. If he does make it in though, I can see myself liking him eventually.

Resetti - There will not be a playable Animal Crossing character. I guarantee it.

Mii - Really, the Mii is a perfect AT. Seeing the Mii fight would just be awkward, they already look like odd in Wii Sports.

Megaman - No, I'd rather have Bomberman.


Jigglypuff - Why remove a perfectly good character and add Munchlax?
Mewtwo - You remove him because he is low tier? That's completely ********. Hey Samus was low tier in SSB, they should get rid of her.
Falco - See my Krystal comment.
Mr. Game and Watch - An awesome and unique character. Removing him is almost as bad as removing the Ice Climbers.
Ice Climbers - The most unique character in the entire series and you want them out? Tsk tsk.
Marth - Again, there is no reason to remove a good character that represents his series well.
Ness - I actually don't think Ness will be removed in favor of Lucas. Sakurai needs to appeal to a worldwide audience, Ness is far more known, especially because of his appearances in the previous Smash games.

Okay good, just a killed a couple minutes.

 

[Legolastom]

Okay..............


Bowser Jr - Now I wouldn't absolutely hate it if he were in the game, i liked the little guy in Mario Kart. I won't be mad if he's in, I'll just be disappointed.

WW Link - The worst choice for a new character ever. Yes I played Wind Waker. Two of the same character is just a bad idea. I don't want him taking the place of a more unique character.

Munchlax - No.

Lucario - I just don't see the appeal of Lucario at all. He has no importance and is design is terrible. If he somehow gets into Brawl, perhaps he'll grow on me, but I'll hate him for taking a good spot.

Krystal - I really don't think she deserves it all. Especially if it means dumping Falco, the coolest Star Fox character by far. I also find her rather annoying. StarFox only needs 3 characters anyway.

Wolf - Same as Bowser Jr.. I won't be mad, just disappointed.

Black Knight - No, Fire Emblem doesn't need more than 2 characters, Ike and Marth. If he does make it in though, I can see myself liking him eventually.

Resetti - There will not be a playable Animal Crossing character. I guarantee it.

Mii - Really, the Mii is a perfect AT. Seeing the Mii fight would just be awkward, they already look like odd in Wii Sports.

Megaman - No, I'd rather have Bomberman.

Wow thats 1 way to lose ALL creditability.

 

[GreenMamba]

Yes, how dare he disagree about some character inclusions.

 

[Legolastom]

He says he wants Mega man over Bomber man sorry but thats just ********.

 

[Viroxor]

Actually, he said he wants Bomberman over Megaman, which is indeed blasphemy. In fact, that was my only problem with the list. You include Megaman and I would pretty much be in total agreement.

 

[SonOfSamus]

Mr. Game and Watch - An awesome and unique character. Removing him is almost as bad as removing the Ice Climbers.
Ice Climbers - The most unique character in the entire series and you want them out? Tsk tsk. QUOTE]

If you are referring to WiseGuy he didnt say he wanted them out he only said that they were original in melee but they probably wouldnt be brought back because the guys at nintendo dont think they're important enough. He also said he would miss them

 

[Legolastom]

Actually, he said he wants Bomberman over Megaman, which is indeed blasphemy. In fact, that was my only problem with the list. You include Megaman and I would pretty much be in total agreement.

Oops my mistake but seriously Bomber man doesn't even have good games let alone an icon.

 

[Conker1]

Super Bomberman and Bomberman Quest are the highest rated Bomberman games with a 90%.

The highest rated Megaman game is Megaman X with an 86 percent.

Bomberman's newest game, Bomberman Live!, got an 85 percent.

 

[Viroxor]

I simply don't find 4% on some review site to be sufficient evidence to prove Bomberman more iconic than Megaman.

This guy
http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/megamanx-cm/art-001.jpg

is much more recognizable than this one.
http://www.gameplayer.it/novita/immagini/bomberman_land_a_marzo_su_wii_1.jpg

You can't deny that.

 

[Shadowplusle]

honestly i dont really care which one gets in, they are both good in my book

 

[WoapGang]

as long as they don't suck, put em' in for all i care

 

[Chains]

I choose to take the 40 character challenge. (In no order at all.)
1.Mario
2.Link
3.Fox
4.DK
5.Yoshi
6.Pikachu
7.Samus & Zero Suit
8.Luigi
9.Peach
10.Zelda
11.Kirby
12.Meta Knight
13.Snake
14.Bowser
15.Ganondorf
16.Ike
20.PKMN Trainer
21.Jigglypuff
22.Marth
23.Lucas
24.Cap. Falcon
25.Ridley
26.Krystal
27.King DeDeDe
28.Diddy K
29.Baby Bowser
29 1/3.Dark Samus
29 2/3.Wolf
30.Wario
31. Midna & Wolf Link
32. Lucario
33.Megaman
34.Pit
35.Sonic
36.Tom Nook
37.Ice Climbers
38.Bomberman
39.Zant
40.Olimar

I would love to see other characters as well, (notably Issac, Bonk) but i'm just putting what I THINK, not what I WANT

Wahla.

 

[Wreked]

I choose to take the 40 character challenge. (In no order at all.)
1.Mario
2.Link
3.Fox
4.DK
5.Yoshi
6.Pikachu
7.Samus & Zero Suit
8.Luigi
9.Peach
10.Zelda
11.Kirby
12.Meta Knight
13.Snake
14.Bowser
15.Ganondorf
16.Ike
20.PKMN Trainer
21.Jigglypuff
22.Marth
23.Lucas
24.Cap. Falcon
25.Ridley
26.Krystal
27.King DeDeDe
28.Diddy K
29.Baby Bowser
29 1/3.Dark Samus
29 2/3.Wolf
30.Wario
31. Midna & Wolf Link
32. Lucario
33.Megaman
34.Pit
35.Sonic
36.Tom Nook
37.Ice Climbers
38.Bomberman
39.Zant
40.Bonk (We can all dream, can't we?

Wahla.

Not bad except for Bonk, Bomberman, Nook, and Zant. And what no Olimar.

7/10

 

[Viroxor]

And no Falco. We WILL have him again.

 

[Vali]

Chains you do realise that transformations are a character right? Thus you managed to fail the 40 character challenge, opting instead to enter for the 43 character challenge. It doesn't really matter too much anyway, no Olimar = auto-fail in my book .

 

[Conker1]

I'll take the "challenge" as well.

As far as I'm concerned, Zelda ans Sheik = 1 character, Samus and Zamus = 1 character, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle = one character.

 

[Chains]

Not bad except for Bonk, Bomberman, Nook, and Zant. And what no Olimar.

7/10

Yeah, i forgot Olimar. I wasn't thinking well at the time of the post. I'd say bonk won't get in as well, but he's a frikin caveman/baby/headbutter! But, olimar will replace him on the list. Zant was a pretty amazing boss fight, and i'd be down-hearted if he didn't make it. a bomb moveset would be cool for bomberman, (though a little bland.) and he'd be fun to play as. I'd say some animal crossing character will get in, and Nook is the most likely (I'd perfer K.K slider and Mr Resitti myself, but Nook is more likely.) there.

 

[Wreked]

Yeah, i forgot Olimar. I wasn't thinking well at the time of the post. I'd say bonk won't get in as well, but he's a frikin caveman/baby/headbutter! But, olimar will replace him on the list. Zant was a pretty amazing boss fight, and i'd be down-hearted if he didn't make it. a bomb moveset would be cool for bomberman, (though a little bland.) and he'd be fun to play as. I'd say some animal crossing character will get in, and Nook is the most likely (I'd perfer K.K slider and Mr Resitti myself, but Nook is more likely.) there.

Yeah Zant was a good boss but I seriously doubt that he will be a PC. Bomberman, i'm a little iffy on him. I would be suprised if he DID make it. But I would be suprised if he wasn't in Brawl at all. Animal crossing- Resetti is the only one I like.

 

[Kunitsuna]

I simply don't find 4% on some review site to be sufficient evidence to prove Bomberman more iconic than Megaman.

This guy
http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/megamanx-cm/art-001.jpg

is much more recognizable than this one.
http://www.gameplayer.it/novita/imma...o_su_wii_1.jpg

You can't deny that.

So you´re essentially going "MEGAMAN IS MUCH COOLER I MEAN HE HAS A SCARF BOMBERMAN IS JUST SOME GHEY LITTLE PUNY KID".

First, X (especially Command Mission X, god that game was bad) is indeed less recognizeable than Bomberman. The most well-known incarnation of Mega Man is the original Mega Man, the kid in blue with ridiculously large boots and a buster instead of a hand. Second, not even this character is high above Bomberman. If I ask someone whether they know Mega Man and they do, chances are they´ll know Bomberman as well. The inverse is true, too. Actually, I can´t think of anyone I know that is aware of the existence of one and not the other.

Besides, neither Mega Man or Bomberman are at the level of popularity than Mario or Pacman, or to an extent Sonic; characters that are known by people who were never really interested in videogames.

And furthermore, Snake is less known than Bomberman or Mega Man. So your argument is pretty much moot.

In other news, new list! It was originally thirty-five characters, but I added five more to comply with the rules of the challenge. Characters with asterisks (*) are unlockable.

SUPER MARIO
01. Mario (confirmed)
02. Luigi *
03. Peach (confirmed)
04. Bowser (confirmed)
05. Paper Mario *

YOSHI
06. Yoshi (confirmed)

DONKEY KONG
07. Donkey Kong (confirmed)
08. Diddy Kong (confirmed)

WARIOWARE
09. Wario (confirmed)

KID ICARUS
10. Pit (confirmed)

THE LEGEND OF ZELDA
11. Link (confirmed)
12. Zelda (confirmed)
13. Ganondorf *
14. Kid Link (WW) *

METROID
15. Samus (confirmed)
16. Zero-Suit Samus (confirmed)
17. Ridley *

POKéMON
18. Pikachu (confirmed)
19. Pokémon Trainer - Squirtle (confirmed)
20. Pokémon Trainer - Ivysaur (confirmed)
21. Pokémon Trainer - Charizard (confirmed)
22. Gardevoir *
23. Munchlax *

F-ZERO
24. Captain Falcon

STAR FOX
25. Fox (confirmed)
26. Falco
27. Krystal *

ANIMAL CROSSING
28. Forest Villager (main character; customizeable appearance and gender)

FIRE EMBLEM
29. Ike
30. Marth
31. Soren *

PIKMIN
32. Captain Olimar *

KIRBY
33. Kirby (confirmed)
34. Meta Knight (confirmed)
35. King Dedede *

MOTHER / EARTHBOUND
36. Lucas

BALLOON FIGHT
37. Alice *

FOR THE FROG THE BELL TOLLS
38. Sablé & Richard *

METAL GEAR (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
39. Snake *

CASTLEVANIA (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
40. Simon Belmont *

Twenty-five starters and fifteen unlockable characters. Seems fine to me!

 

[Wreked]

So you´re essentially going "MEGAMAN IS MUCH COOLER I MEAN HE HAS A SCARF BOMBERMAN IS JUST SOME GHEY LITTLE PUNY KID".

First, X (especially Command Mission X, god that game was bad) is indeed less recognizeable than Bomberman. The most well-known incarnation of Mega Man is the original Mega Man, the kid in blue with ridiculously large boots and a buster instead of a hand. Second, not even this character is high above Bomberman. If I ask someone whether they know Mega Man and they do, chances are they´ll know Bomberman as well. The inverse is true, too. Actually, I can´t think of anyone I know that is aware of the existence of one and not the other.

Besides, neither Mega Man or Bomberman are at the level of popularity than Mario or Pacman, or to an extent Sonic; characters that are known by people who were never really interested in videogames.

And furthermore, Snake is less known than Bomberman or Mega Man. So your argument is pretty much moot.

In other news, new list! It was originally thirty-five characters, but I added five more to comply with the rules of the challenge. Characters with asterisks (*) are unlockable.

SUPER MARIO
01. Mario (confirmed)
02. Luigi *
03. Peach (confirmed)
04. Bowser (confirmed)
05. Paper Mario *

Fine except for Paper Mario

YOSHI
06. Yoshi (confirmed)

Fine

DONKEY KONG
07. Donkey Kong (confirmed)
08. Diddy Kong (confirmed)

Good

WARIOWARE
09. Wario (confirmed)

Nice

KID ICARUS
10. Pit (confirmed)

Yes

THE LEGEND OF ZELDA
11. Link (confirmed)
12. Zelda (confirmed)
13. Ganondorf *
14. Kid Link (WW) *

Kid Link meh I don't like him but he might be in. I perfer Midna and Wolf Link.
METROID
15. Samus (confirmed)
16. Zero-Suit Samus (confirmed)
17. Ridley *

I consider Samus and Zamus one character as of now.
POKéMON
18. Pikachu (confirmed)
19. Pokémon Trainer - Squirtle (confirmed)
20. Pokémon Trainer - Ivysaur (confirmed)
21. Pokémon Trainer - Charizard (confirmed)
22. Gardevoir *
23. Munchlax *

Count Squirtle Ivysaur and Charizard as one under PT. Gardevoir and Muchlax. I like gardevoir but munchlax, how about Jiggs and Lucario.
F-ZERO
24. Captain Falcon

Very good.
STAR FOX
25. Fox (confirmed)
26. Falco
27. Krystal *

Wolf maybe.
ANIMAL CROSSING
28. Forest Villager (main character)

Meh Resetti or KK. Hopefully Resetti.
FIRE EMBLEM
29. Ike
30. Marth
31. Soren *

Who's soren. What about Lyn, Hector, or BK.
PIKMIN
32. Captain Olimar *

Woo

KIRBY
33. Kirby (confirmed)
34. Meta Knight (confirmed)
35. King Dedede *

Uh huh
MOTHER / EARTHBOUND
36. Lucas

I auctually agree with this.
BALLOON FIGHT
37. Alice *

You have the balloon fighter series in there but no Ballon Fighter?
FOR THE FROG THE BELL TOLLS
38. Sablé & Richard *

Who now.
METAL GEAR (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
39. Snake *

Cool

CASTLEVANIA (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
40. Simon Belmont *

Megaman sonic.
Twenty-five starters and fifteen unlockable characters. Seems fine to me!

Ten characters

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

Look at that bod. Who wouldn't want to play as such a manly creature?

Me...

I'll stick with my little Imp girl.



MP3 has sucked my soul away.

*Stares at TV screen wanting to play MP3*

I hate having to go to work...

 

[Kunitsuna]

Why not Paper Mario? He´s branched off of the standard Mario franchise to form his own sub-series, and has become highly popular because of it. He would be completely different from his 3D counterpart and could even have a "helper" system incorporated into his B-moves, either with his allies from Paper Mario 1 and 2 or the Pixls from Super Paper Mario. Sakurai wants original characters, after all, and who deserves it more him?

Again, Kid Link deserves it more than Midna & Wolf Link. He´s starred in several games by now, forming his own version of the Legend of Zelda franchise (even moreso than Paper Mario), and in the process has amassed a number of weapons, tools, items and techniques that would make him completely original from Link. Midna & Wolf Link have only shown up in Twilight Princess, and the quadruped niche is already filled by Ivysaur.

Samus and Zero-Suit Samus count as two characters because they have different animations, A-moves, B-moves and Final Smashes. In other words they´re as different as any two other characters are, and take the same time to program. But if I could include another Metroid character, it would probably be Weavel.

The same argument goes to why Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard must be considered separate characters. The reason why I included Munchlax is because its generation of Pokémon--the most recent one--is wildly popular around the world with Diamond and Pearl, and it also fills the niche of the highly liked Pokémon in Japan like Jigglypuff once did. I picked it over Lucario because Munchlax would be a heavyweight and could be highly original through the use of moves like Stockpile and Swallow, which would allow it to recover damage. Lucario offers little in the sense of never-seen-before. Munchlax also counts with some more support.

I really doubt Wolf will make it in unless they decide to include four Star Fox characters.

The main character would be exponentially more interesting. You´d be able to pick his/her gender and outfit, then set four custom-made looks to the four costume slots and use them in battle. The Forest Villager would have access to a myriad of items that could conceivably be used in battle, possibly bringing a UFO down on foes for a Final Smash. K. K. Slider has been deconfirmed, and Mr. Resetti is fairly minor--and his role is to chastise you when you reset the game.

Soren´s one of the supporting characters in Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. He appeared in Sakurai´s poll, and Fire Emblem needs to get a spellcaster into SSBB. I chose him over Micaiah simply because Micaiah doesn´t use much more than light magic. Black Knight offers nothing new (Ike is already a heavyweight swordsman and Ganondorf probably will be as well; besides, his sword is identical to Ike´s), and Lyn and Hector are highly unlikely simply because Japan didn´t like the portable Fire Emblems. Why do you think there´s no Fire Emblem DS?

Alice actually has a defined appearance and story, as well as a bit of a personality. She was featured in the Balloon Kid games, which came after the original Balloon Fight and include the latest installments in the series. She´s also female, which is a plus, and can do a number of things that Balloon Fighter can´t; like let go of her balloons and then jump back up to catch them, or use a pump to inflate new ones. Parrothead has a thread about her I think, if you´d like to know more (also better pictures).

Sablé and Richard are the two protagonists of For the Frog the Bell Tolls, a Gameboy game released only in Japan. They´re young princes with the ability to access both frog and snake forms, in which they have different abilities and appearances. Can you imagine the notion of a tag-team transforming character? Besides, there will most likely be a tag-team character in SSBB, since Sakurai likes creative character ideas, and considering how the Ice Climbers don´t seem to have much support on returning and Diddy Kong is going solo, they seem like a fine choice. Again if you want to know more, Parrothead has a thread about them. Also they were featured in Sakurai´s poll.

Why Simon Belmont over Sonic? Probability. Konami has already agreed to put Snake in the game, and Simon Belmont is thus not much of a leap. He was already a playable character in DreamMix TV: World Fighters (A Japan-only Hudson-Takara-Konami fighting crossover game) along with Snake, demonstrating that he´s more than capable of fighting. On the other hand, SEGA mentioned that the possibility of Sonic being in Super Smash Bros. Brawl is currently "not on the cards". Mega Man´s a fine choice too, I just put Simon in because his owning company already has a character in the game.

 

[Kirby knight]

So you´re essentially going "MEGAMAN IS MUCH COOLER I MEAN HE HAS A SCARF BOMBERMAN IS JUST SOME GHEY LITTLE PUNY KID".

First, X (especially Command Mission X, god that game was bad) is indeed less recognizeable than Bomberman. The most well-known incarnation of Mega Man is the original Mega Man, the kid in blue with ridiculously large boots and a buster instead of a hand. Second, not even this character is high above Bomberman. If I ask someone whether they know Mega Man and they do, chances are they´ll know Bomberman as well. The inverse is true, too. Actually, I can´t think of anyone I know that is aware of the existence of one and not the other.

Besides, neither Mega Man or Bomberman are at the level of popularity than Mario or Pacman, or to an extent Sonic; characters that are known by people who were never really interested in videogames.

And furthermore, Snake is less known than Bomberman or Mega Man. So your argument is pretty much moot.

In other news, new list! It was originally thirty-five characters, but I added five more to comply with the rules of the challenge. Characters with asterisks (*) are unlockable.

SUPER MARIO
01. Mario (confirmed)
02. Luigi *
03. Peach (confirmed)
04. Bowser (confirmed)
05. Paper Mario *

Fine.

YOSHI
06. Yoshi (confirmed)


DONKEY KONG
07. Donkey Kong (confirmed)
08. Diddy Kong (confirmed)


WARIOWARE
09. Wario (confirmed)


KID ICARUS
10. Pit (confirmed)


THE LEGEND OF ZELDA
11. Link (confirmed)
12. Zelda (confirmed)
13. Ganondorf *
14. Kid Link (WW) *

Fine.

METROID
15. Samus (confirmed)
16. Zero-Suit Samus (confirmed)
17. Ridley *

Fine.

POKéMON
18. Pikachu (confirmed)
19. Pokémon Trainer - Squirtle (confirmed)
20. Pokémon Trainer - Ivysaur (confirmed)
21. Pokémon Trainer - Charizard (confirmed)
22. Gardevoir *
23. Munchlax *

Sorry but, The Pokemon Trainer is one character not 3. Regardless of how many pokemon he uses. Gardevoir simply isn't popular enough. Jiggypuff has a high chance of returning and Lucario also has a high chance to make it in. You'd be lucky to see Gardevoir as a pokeball pokemon. Munchlax does have some merits for his inclusion however Lucario has an edge over him popularity wise.

F-ZERO
24. Captain Falcon


STAR FOX
25. Fox (confirmed)
26. Falco
27. Krystal *

Fine.

ANIMAL CROSSING
28. Forest Villager (main character; customizeable appearance and gender)

Hmm this is an interesting one seeing as AC has all of these stages and items representing them. I guess the Forest Villager could work.

FIRE EMBLEM
29. Ike
30. Marth
31. Soren *

Ok sorry but Soren? Why on earth did you pick him. If any magic user is going to get in it's going to be Mikaya from the upcoming FE10. Soren just isn't important enough to warrant a spot.

PIKMIN
32. Captain Olimar *

Fine.

KIRBY
33. Kirby (confirmed)
34. Meta Knight (confirmed)
35. King Dedede *

Fine.

MOTHER / EARTHBOUND
36. Lucas

I've heard rumors that Lucas was going to replace Ness; although removing Ness makes me sad though ;_;

BALLOON FIGHT
37. Alice *

Who? is she more important than the Orginal Balloon fighter? I don't know to much about her so I can't really have an opinion.

FOR THE FROG THE BELL TOLLS
38. Sablé & Richard *

Never heard of the series

METAL GEAR (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
39. Snake *

CASTLEVANIA (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
40. Simon Belmont *

:/ I don't know really. I don't know to much about him.

Twenty-five starters and fifteen unlockable characters. Seems fine to me!

*Comments in bold.

Overall your list seems to be pretty good except for a few things. You classifed the Pokemon Trainer as 3 characters he's not. Gardevoir isn't popular enough to warrant a spot imo. Soren is never going to get in as a playable character he's a non-lord and Mikaya would take up the role as the magic user. OMG how can you not have Sonic on your list? I'm not a sonicfan myself but he's so popular it's almost impossible to ignore him. He's a shoe in unless Sega want to be stupid.

-Knight

 

[Viroxor]

So you´re essentially going "MEGAMAN IS MUCH COOLER I MEAN HE HAS A SCARF BOMBERMAN IS JUST SOME GHEY LITTLE PUNY KID".

First, X (especially Command Mission X, god that game was bad) is indeed less recognizeable than Bomberman. The most well-known incarnation of Mega Man is the original Mega Man, the kid in blue with ridiculously large boots and a buster instead of a hand. Second, not even this character is high above Bomberman. If I ask someone whether they know Mega Man and they do, chances are they´ll know Bomberman as well. The inverse is true, too. Actually, I can´t think of anyone I know that is aware of the existence of one and not the other.

Besides, neither Mega Man or Bomberman are at the level of popularity than Mario or Pacman, or to an extent Sonic; characters that are known by people who were never really interested in videogames.

And furthermore, Snake is less known than Bomberman or Mega Man. So your argument is pretty much moot.

In other news, new list! It was originally thirty-five characters, but I added five more to comply with the rules of the challenge. Characters with asterisks (*) are unlockable.

SUPER MARIO
01. Mario (confirmed)
02. Luigi *
03. Peach (confirmed)
04. Bowser (confirmed)
05. Paper Mario *

YOSHI
06. Yoshi (confirmed)

DONKEY KONG
07. Donkey Kong (confirmed)
08. Diddy Kong (confirmed)

WARIOWARE
09. Wario (confirmed)

KID ICARUS
10. Pit (confirmed)

THE LEGEND OF ZELDA
11. Link (confirmed)
12. Zelda (confirmed)
13. Ganondorf *
14. Kid Link (WW) *

METROID
15. Samus (confirmed)
16. Zero-Suit Samus (confirmed)
17. Ridley *

POKéMON
18. Pikachu (confirmed)
19. Pokémon Trainer - Squirtle (confirmed)
20. Pokémon Trainer - Ivysaur (confirmed)
21. Pokémon Trainer - Charizard (confirmed)
22. Gardevoir *
23. Munchlax *

F-ZERO
24. Captain Falcon

STAR FOX
25. Fox (confirmed)
26. Falco
27. Krystal *

ANIMAL CROSSING
28. Forest Villager (main character; customizeable appearance and gender)

FIRE EMBLEM
29. Ike
30. Marth
31. Soren *

PIKMIN
32. Captain Olimar *

KIRBY
33. Kirby (confirmed)
34. Meta Knight (confirmed)
35. King Dedede *

MOTHER / EARTHBOUND
36. Lucas

BALLOON FIGHT
37. Alice *

FOR THE FROG THE BELL TOLLS
38. Sablé & Richard *

METAL GEAR (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
39. Snake *

CASTLEVANIA (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
40. Simon Belmont *

Twenty-five starters and fifteen unlockable characters. Seems fine to me!

For one thing, you're totally putting words in my mouth. Did I ever make a comment that remotely implied it was the scarf that won it for me? No, I never even played Command Mission. That was just one of the first pics that came up on Google image. The only reason I've heard of Bomberman is because my cousin was playing it on his computer once. That's the only time I've ever seen him or heard him mentioned. Megaman, on the other hand, I hear about quite a bit. The bottom line is that more people would recognize him. Then again, I'm only speaking from my personal experience, so...

Can't say I have many qualms with your list. You included Falco, which is the first thing I look for in a list. Good job on that.

 

[Kirby knight]

http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/fireemblem-snk/art-003.jpg

Soren´s one of the supporting characters in Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance. He appeared in Sakurai´s poll, and Fire Emblem needs to get a spellcaster into SSBB. I chose him over Micaiah simply because Micaiah doesn´t use much more than light magic. Black Knight offers nothing new (Ike is already a heavyweight swordsman and Ganondorf probably will be as well; besides, his sword is identical to Ike´s), and Lyn and Hector are highly unlikely simply because Japan didn´t like the portable Fire Emblems. Why do you think there´s no Fire Emblem DS?

That's the key word there "Supporting Character". Soren's not going to be in Brawl (As a playabe character at least because he's not the "Main Character"). I mean that's like adding Luigi to Brawl and not having Mario.

It's not like "Light Magic" only has one spell she can use; she has plenty of spell books to draw movesets from.

Also Japan doesn't have the final say on everything Fire Emblem. I mean outside of Japan you know that FE7 is still the most popular FE to be released?(Not going by sales alone of course). But for the same reason why the Japanese don't like the handhelds, they weren't difficult enough for their tastes. So far FE7 is the hardest FE in the US. This may change with the release of FE10.

Also about you FE DS comment; how do you know for an absolute fact their won't be any in the whole lifetime of the DS? I think it's highly unlikely that we won't see a FE DS; and from the backfeed they have gotten from the Japanese and the U.S they can make a game that will be for everyone.

-Knight

 

[inside]

I'm getting scared everyday as I check the updates on when Captain Falcon will finally be announced.

 

[Pokebrawl]

I really don't see why people think Midna has such high chances. Just because she is an important character in the latest game in the series means nothing. I'm not saying she wouldn't be a great character but there are character with seniority on her that are just as popular, important and would be just as great like Skull Kid or Vaati.

From what I've seen, Midna's more widely-known.

 

[Vali]

As far as I'm concerned, Zelda ans Sheik = 1 character, Samus and Zamus = 1 character, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle = one character.

How dandy for you. Now I have to explain yet again no matter if you think that they count as 1 character or not, you still need to include them as separate characters when predicting Brawl rosters. 40 characters isn't a limit based on "oo how pretty would the character select screen look?" it's based on production time and blatently ignoring what is essentially a little less than another character because they're a transformation is idiotic. A Brawl roster which had 17 transformations would take much longer to make and thus have to include fewer characters due to the increased time that those transformations will add. Saying that 40 characters or 40 characters and 17 transformations is the same thing is downright stupid. So again to reiterate, the 40 cap is there because that is what people think will be a reasonable amount of characters for Brawl and transformations need to be included in that estimate otherwise you're ignorantly ignoring a lot of time and effort on behalf of the Brawl team.

Let's take the Pokemon Trainer for an example:

Time to create models for all 3 Pokemon, create movesets for all 3 Pokemon, create pretty much everything else for Pokemon such as sounds, create PT model, create PT animations, create victory pose, character creation portrait, create single player things such as Break the Targets and a Unique Story Segment (possibly).

This is very rough of course, and the single player is expanded on enough to know exactly how much time is saved, but in order to create PT 3 movesets and 4 models need to created and animated but only 1 portrait and single player components need to be added in. So by counting PT as 1 character you're infact ignoring at least the additional movesets, models and sounds (not even counting the extra tweaking required to balance). A character with 2 transformations like the PT is practically an extra 2 characters work on top, and thus should be counted as 3 for the aforementioned reasons.

@Shuma I've already stated why we say 40 characters. It isn't because of the roster or the amount of newcomers, it's because of production time plain and simple. There's no dancing around the fact that PT takes around 3 x the amount of time as a single character. If we get 40 characters on the roster screen then it will be a case of us underestimating the amount of characters they could put in, but 40 is a safe bet. 37 unique characters on the selection screen with 40 in total or 40 unique characters - it's almost the same amount of time to make.

 

[Shuma]

@Vali:

Yes, you're right, but then again, what if Sakurai counts Pokemon Trainer as 1 character? He ocupies 1 slot on the Roster thus i assume he counts as 1 character, by your definition of 40 character we would have very very few newcomers.

 

[Legolastom]

Anyway PT is more like 2 character seeing as a few of his stuff (Story etc) will only be for 1 person so the work he saved from that would be put into creating another character.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

It all depends to how Sakurai refers to the roster size in Melee... if he's said 25 characters then he counts Z/S as one, and that would mean that he counts Samus/ZSS and Pokemon Trainer as one character. If he says 26, then he does count Z/S as different characters, and that would mean he counts S/ZSS and PT as different characters.

I'm gonna look for a quote.

 

[neoREgen]

Alright. I've altered my roster a bit: (click here for original)

removed: Lip, Marth (:/), Mia, Mew, Ray 01.
added: Isaac, Takamaru, Mii, Micaiah.
thinking Zero-Suit Samus will have her own slot and not only be accessable via final smash.

- - - - - - - -

Mario: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Boswer Jr.
spinoffs: Wario, Yoshi

Zelda: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, WW Link, Vaati

Pokemon: Pikachu, Mewtwo, Lucario, Pokemon Trainer

Metroid: Samus, Zero-Suit Samus, Ridley

Kirby: Kirby, Metaknight, King Dedede

Starfox: Fox, Falco, Krystal

DK: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong

Fire Emblem: Ike, Micaiah

Other: Captain Falcon, Lucas, Olimar, Geno, Issac, Pit, Takamaru, Mii.

Third-party: Snake, Sonic, Megaman

- - - - - - - -
= 39 to 43, depending on how you want to count.