There's always the off-chance that Marth is still a "secret" character. I guess unlockable would be a better term but there you have it.
Also, and an interesting possible wrench to throw in the proceedings, what may be happening is that Ike was chosen as a starter for FE due to his international fanbase and double recent game status (plus he's kind of an advertisement for GoD in the US). However, assuming they decide to do 3 Fire Emblem characters, which is entirely possible considering its 10 game (soon to be 4 international) roster, what's to say Marth won't be included as the Japanese favourite? I would imagine that they'd pick one of the old-school FE people and a GBA FE character honestly; after all, what better way to add one of the disliked in Japan FE characters than placate them with their favourite FE character overall? Marth is almost a shoe-in for old-school, though apparently Sigurd has a chance as well. However...
That's certainly a possibility. However: I would argue against the notion that Ike represents non-Japanese Fire Emblem only, and therefore a Japanese favorite is needed. Ike is popular in Japan as well, as is made evident by his string showing at the poll - so he represents ALL Fire Emblem fans.
Yeah, that's definitely true. I wonder if that makes Sigurd a more likely candidate...
It may at that. From what I hear, Sigurd was supposed to be included in Melee instead of Roy. He was also nominated on Sakurai's poll, for what that's worth.
Black Knight style teleport powder perhaps?
Hmmm... maybe. Something similar, no doubt.
That OR he's just messing with us again. He sure likes to do that.
He sure does...
Dang, I was hoping for Marth as an AT for today's update. I probably would have laughed a bit too hard. Still, better than being kept in the dark?
I somehow doubt that we would see Marth as an AT, but it would be hilarious no doubt.
Compared to Ike, Marth looks even more completely gay with a Tiara whereas Ike has that BAD@$$ Headband on. Plus I am guranteed that Ike's stance and taunt will be way better than Marths. Ike is just more Bad@$$. Nothing to Marth, I used to main him for like a day or two but you guy's know it.
PS- Ikes hair style reminds me of Roy.
Ike owns. There is no disputing this fact.
Here's a list of who has been introduced and when:
May
Week One: Link, Mario, Pit
June
Week Two: None
Week Three: Pikachu, Kirby
Week Four: Fox, Samus
Week Five: Wario
Week Six: Zelda
July
Week Seven: Bowser
Week Eight: Donkey Kong
Week Nine: Zero Suit Samus
Week Ten: Yoshi
August
Week Eleven: Ike
Week Twelve: ?
Week Thirteen: ?
Week Fourteen: ?
Week Fifteen: ?
So far there has been no discernable pattern regarding the newcomers (thanks a lot for messing it up, Ike!), aside from one of the '06 Trailer Five being announced each month, currently on the interval of one every four weeks. Maybe we'll get MK in two weeks' time...
... most likely Peach next week.
As for a pattern, the only one I see is that the starting characters are possibly being revealed first.
:
W00W Tolkien Did know Ganon's Final Smash!
It's weird, but ever since the Ike update, I've had a reestablished sense of giddy-ness about me. Seriously, if Brawl sees much more fantastic content, I'm not going to know what to do with myself come December 3rd.
I mean, how many characters can a single person possibly main? I'm going on three already, and we very-well may only know less than half the roster at this point. Ratio-wise, the unlockable characters to starters in Melee was roughly 1.1:1. If this stays somewhat consistent in Brawl (and even moreso if Sakurai ups the amount of starters on the roster), we'll be looking at somewhere between 12-20 hidden characters.
Okay, let's look at the (supposed) starters announced so far:
-Mario
-Link
-Bowser
-Pit
-Samus
-Kirby
-Pikachu
-Yoshi
-DK
-Fox
-Ike
-Wario
-Zelda
That's larger than the starter list was for Melee, already. Now, who else is most likely going to be a starter?
-Peach
-Captain Falcon
-Ness or Lucas
That brings the starter list up to at least fifteen. So, going by the ratio from Melee, we can expect a roster of at least 31-32 characters at this point; however, I'm a firm believer of the fact that Sakurai (now that he has the time) is going to up this ratio a bit in order to give the roster more diversity. This leads us to a roster that will actually be pretty close to Wiseguy's projected forty character list, unless Sakurai keeps giving bio after bio and boons this theory.
That's a very well reasoned argument. For my money we'll see Peach (duh!) and Falcon as starters as well and one other new series rep (Olimar, anyone?). I suspect that the Earthbound rep will most likely be unlockable this time.
And I too have been really excited since this update. Every time Sakurai reveals the tiniest piece of info, I think to myself "Microsoft and Sony could merge, release the PS360 with holo-deck style virtual reality - and Nintendo would still OWN!" Super Smash Bros Brawl is going to redefine awesome!
The more, the merrier!
I feel the same way about Ike. Something about him sent a spark through me, that made me REALLY excited for this game...
And... seeing that sword... makes... me want... to have... :gulp:... Ganondorf... haveaswordTHEREISAIDIT!!!
:runs away:
I never thought I'd see the day....
Welcome to the winning side Odin!
Man this topic moves fast. Last time I posted here this topic was like a little less then 2/3 the size it is now.
I don't see how Ike de-confirmed Marth. As for the "why wasn't Marth shown first?" argument, well there could be a number of answers to that. Who says Sakurai had to show what we believe to be the most important character to a series first? I strongly believe we, as a community, act like we know far more then what we really do. In case it hasn't been noticed for awhile now, Sakurai likes to mind game us. Just when we think we have it all figured out, he goes and pulls a fast one. How many people thought the castle was related to FE: PoR before today's update? We may figure out some stuff, but that doesn't mean we have everything figured out.
The way I see it at this point, there seems to be a lack of solid proof for Marth's status of returning or not.
I agree, it's still undetermined as to whether Marth will return. But the fact that all the other main series had their main character revealed first (Mario for the Mario franchise, Link for the Zelda fanchise, etc.) should raise some eyebrows.
I still don't think Marth will return. He was in one FE game 17 years ago and he was only in SSBM to boost sales of the newer FEs.
I agree. Marth served his purpose, now hopefully we'll see some new FE character get a chance to shine.
The thing is is that a lot of people like him now, and they would be very disappointed if he didn't return.
At first, yes they would. But frankly, they'll get over. I imagine there will be aspects of the final roster that mnay of us will disagree with, but after Brawl is released we'll be too happy to nitpick.
Yes, people have been correct about that castle being a FE stage, I thought the same thing was well. On the other hand, not quite correct about it being from FE: PoR.
Actually, Marth was in two FE games, the first and the third one. As for boosting sales of future FE games (actually, just one, the sixth one), I guess you got Roy mistaken for that.
Also, why is date much of an argument? Before retro characters get brought up, how do we know Sakurai won't think the same for non-retro characters?
Well, when it comes to longrunning franchises like Zelda - the more recent games tend to be the ones represented. This is why we saw Sheik instead of Aginham.
I want new FE character for brawl
Your wish has been granted:
Do not be ashamed! Ganon had a zwiehander in Melee's victory pose screen, and had a sword in Twilight Princess, so it would only make sense! I fully support a bladed Ganon!
The only reason I might want a swordless Ganon is that it might help Black Knight's chances. Still, I think Ganondorf's would be different enough that they can both be included - given Ganny's repitoir of magical attacks.
The predictions in this thread (excluding Wiseguy's predictions themselves) have become increasingly more sensible since Ike's announcement. Was there something really important there that I missed.
To Wiseguy: I wasn't insulting your list, I just said some of the other predictions were a little out there at first. I still want Falco back, though. It would take a Chinese water torture to purge me of that.
No worries. Odin will take care of that for you:
:drip:
:drip:
Possibly. But then, conventional logic also dictates that Sakurai would've revealed other non-newcomer starters before Ike (where's the earthbound or F-Zero rep?) So it's possible that Sakurai isn't following conventional wisdom, either just because he's unconventional or because he likes to keep the fans on their toes.
Of course, it's also possible that Marth isn't the Fire Emblem starter. He might be unlockable, just like in Melee. Perhaps Ike is the FE starter, since as a recent and world-wide lord he'd have better recognition?
So that's two options right there. Either Ike is the starter this time around, or Sakurai is crazy. Or quite possibly both.
I personally think it makes sense to reveal a Fire Emblem starter before a Earthbound or F-Zero rep. The Fire emblem series has grown in popularity since Melee, while F-Zero is still niche as ever and there has yet to be another international Mother game.
Is Marth unlockable? Maybe.
Is Sakurai insane? Most definitely. (And thank goodness!)
Now, I'm no game designer, but I know enough of them to know that, between asset creation and asset balancing, it's far, FAR, almost incomparably far easier to balance something that already exists than to create something new, or even something only slightly different. So I KNOW they wouldn't replace Marth's moveset for balancing reasons alone. I mean, if Sakurai is cutting characters to save time for new movsets, why on earth would he waste time re-creating what he already has?
It may have been easier just to include Marth's, but since Ike HAD to be included - they may have designed a new moveset for him and thought: why bother spending even more time including a very similar, old moveset?
Or they may have drastically tweaked Marth's moveset (like they did with Luigi's for Melee) and assigned to to Ike instead.
It's not what they LOOK like, it's how they move. From what little I can see of him, Ike seems to move all wrong to be like Marth. He carries himself wrong.
I think we should wait until we have something other than still screenshots before determining how Ike moves...
Oh pleasepleaseplease let there be a dragon.
Yeah, a dragon would be perfect.
I don't think "they look alike" is a very valid argument.
I mean, look at Mario and Luigi!
I see your point, but the thing is that Ike didin't HAVE to look so much like Marth. His Goddess of Dawn form is much older looking, and looks much more disimilar. Heck, TP Zelda's blond highlights were removed to make her look less like Peach (I assume).
It's pretty unusual for two none-clones to look as similar as Ike and Marth. Tha's all I'm saying.
Look at Kirby and Jigglypuff.
That's not the best comparison, since they aren't from the same franchise. If you had two Pink, round Pokemon in Melee (say, Chansey and Jiggs) then people would assume that Pink puff balls are a larger part of the franchise than they actually are just like how everyone would flasely assume that Fire Emblem is all about blue haired swordfighters if only Marth and Ike represented the series.
...Okay, I hate to be the bringer of bad news, Wisey, but I feel I should take this into your attention, as the president f the Sheik Haters club.
Recently, it was brought to my attention that, in
this interview, Aonuma says this:
...so, while it doesn't confirm him/her/it/potatom, it looks like Sheik's chances kinda skyrocketed, if the SSB team were already given a working design and model. Sorry to be the herald of bad news, man.
Urgh.... I saw this in the General Brawl Discussion last night. I almost vomited.
Then I read this, and is cheered me up slightly:
Slow down, kids. Let's assume this is true, as it is from a reputable source, but recall that Aonuma talked about submitting those character designs. I'm sure someone had to submit a design for the Balloon Fighter for Melee; that doesn't mean it made the final cut. Sakurai undoubtedly began with a large pool of designs, probably more than one per character, and narrowed and refined the list from there, as Aonuma mentioned. Taking into account translation, this tells us little about character inclusion, but much about NCL's involvement with Sora.
It's also possible that in the course of the interview, "Sheik" was confused for "Zelda".
Still, I'm very worried that this bodes poorly for Anti-Sheikers. If Sheik is in Brawl...
No. That thought is far too repulsive to even contimplate. Sheik will NOT be in Brawl as a playable character. I won't conceed defeat until Sakurai confirms Sheik in an update.
Peach in Smash Bros? Who woulda thunk it?
I say around 45, maybe 1 or 2 more/less. Never would have guessed you'd say so low Wiseguy!
With the whole HAL Laboratory, Eiji Aonuma and his team [plus Cero] are working on it, all of Nintendo is backing it up, Hideo Kojima and a few members of his team, Shigeru Miyamoto and a few members of his team, Monster [or was it Monsters=???], Ape [the peeps who help make the 1st 2, plus the EarthBound series], Game Freak, etc.
Yeah, but after seeing the Assist Trophy, my thought was that the team is going for a smaller roster of playable characters with a TON of runnersup in the form of ATs. One advantage to this is that the roster could potentially be as balanced as Smash 64.
Still, I'm obviously hoping for as many playable charaters as possible.
As of now: 1.Peach. 2.Meta Knight [still hope]. 3.G'dorf. 4.Diddy Kong. 5.Shiek or Capt. Falcon [with all three of his knees]. 6.Ness.
Sheik... *shudders at the thought*
"BANG HEADSHOT!" and mindgames, son moment!
Now would Marth make that big of a spark, NO! Ike, it made a nuclear eplosion in Korea. It's pleased fnabases, and will be getting HUGE publicity.
Maaayyybbbbeee.
As was Fox's, and he's returning. Same with Kirby, and he was modded [and made useless]. As was Pikachu, and he returned[and was much weaker]. Tiers in SSB64 and SSB Melee don't matter in Brawl, it's a whole diffrent ballgame. Heck, Mewtwo will probably return, and he's at the tip bottom of the tiers. Just expect changes, and really Marth wasn't that bad. He was just too quick, and really only REAL good on a pro skill level.
And it looks totally diffrent...kinda reminds me of Link with the Biggorn Sword. No way do I see Marth's moveset being reflected very much in Ike in Brawl, they are nothing alike, other then looks. Marth is fast and quick, Ike is well fast and strong, but not as fast in attacking.
Fox was obviously unbalanced as well, but his worthiness can't be questioned. He's still the main character of HIS franchise.
Jiggs and Kirby.
Marth and Ike are clearly nowhere as near as close in relations as Jiggs and Kirby. For one, they both suck things [lol! XD]. 2. They're entirely Pink. 3. They both are small. 4. They are both about the same height and weight in SSB64 and Melee. 5. They both are totally unrealistic, and hey are both probably cel-shaded [Kirby for sure].
If they use Marth's newer look, he would look a lot more unlike Ike. Marth=Light blue hair+light blue suit+ light blue eyese+ blue and red cape. Ike=dark blue hair+dark blue suit+brown cape [sorta reminds me of Bass]+dark blue eyes. not the biggest diffrence, but they are easily diffrence. The look point is now deemed irrelevant.
BTW, how does Roy look like a girl=??? He sorta looks like my friend, lol! [minus the headband, those headbands make them all look like cross-dressers] If it weren't for those headbands, Marth would look a lot less like a female [in which you can tell by his agressive sword style he's a dude], and if Roy didn't have that headband [which is somewat okay, though he should lose it, like Fox lost his retarted headgear], they'd look somewat normal. Minus the stupid looking blue hair, hate blue hair.
Kirby literally sucks. Jiggs just.... sucks.
Anyway, Ike and Marth are far more similar. Jiggs had ears and a dopey expression to set her apart from Kirby. Ike looks to be just a cooler version of Marth - with a tweaked colour scheme.
I'll grant you that Roy is far less girly than Marth. But that purple cape doesn't help...
While he has strength unlike either of them, he's using a double-handed sword! If you were to compare the three, Ike would be the slowest if they were all in Brawl. His moveset is too original to be based off them, and fanbases would be pretty upset if he was a "semi-clone". If anything, if G'dorf gets a sword like Ike, he'd be more a clone off him, and Ike's moveset seems more like wat Link's would be if he never had a sheild. BTW, how is BK more important and Brawl spot worthy than Marth=??? No one deserves the 2nd spot FE more than Marth, no one.
Until we see a video of Ike in action, I think it's premature to judge how similar or disimilar he controls.
Black Knight deserves a spot for the same reason as Ganondorf: he's the main villian in his frnachise. That, and he's awesom.
i'm not logical? :sad:
http://gameinformer.com/News/Story/200708/N07.0802.1741.54921.htm
and wiseguy, if this is a trusted source, shiek is confirmed.
Patience, SR. Until Sheik is officially confirmed on the Dojo site or an official announcement, out bet is still on.
Well you have to say, it definately increases her Shiek's chances of returning.
And if they didn't cut an unimportant character like her, then what does that say about Marth
Also, I've got a new opinion on the castle stage.
I think that the castle stage confirmed two very important things for Marth's cause that keeps his chances alive.
1. Since it's confirmed that it is not "Ike's Stage" then there is a very high chance that Ike will not be the only FE representative.
2. Since the stage is not from any particular FE (rather than being confirmed as the Daein or even Begnion castle, that means that we will likely get reps from different games in the series. That could mean getting a rep from the upcomming FE10 (which would allow the Black Knight to still get in) or a rep from all the way back to FE1 (which would allow Marth, Sigurd, Lyndis, Hector, Marth) to get in.
Note that this raises the chances for every FE Lord, but Marth's chances where already higher than all the others to start with. How many FE lords can really compete with Marth. Granted that The Black Knight's chances are also increased if Sakurai decides that FE9 and FE10 should count as different worlds
I agree about the FE stage. I think it's pretty much guaranteed that Ike won't be the only FE character.
Wow, I could actually get this update from work today, and I am very (VERY) impressed. My only question is this:
Sakurai states that the story moves along using small movie cutscenes, but in the cutscene he shows, there are four playable characters present (not to mention the screenshot of Link with Yoshi). This leads me to wonder if the story mode is going to be multiplayer co-op?
Edit: I understand that these are just cutscenes, and the screenshots don't show any playable content with multiple characters present. Still, it makes me very curious.
I can't say I'm all that excited about the story mode, but if it has co-op that would be totally sick! Maybe online co-op? Probably not, but I can dream...
