Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[beta_prime]

Ignore the double post thing above me samus rules 93 beat me to it.

 

[Johnknight1]

1) Were they to include PM, he would probably be less of a clone and have a moveset more focused on his dimension-shifting.
2) Another Mario is just as boring as another Link (Young or WW). Both franchises have such rich casts of characters that to take the bland route and include yet another version of the hero is just insipid. What about variety?

Well obviously you either haven't played WW, or are ill informed. WW Link slashes diffrently from all the other Links, has completely diffrent items, and has originality. Plus WW Link is the star of two important games, has a original sword fighting style, and has a completely original design. And how is Toad more important then that, he's ionly played minor rolls. Major characters minor series>Minor characters major series.

In fact, Toad is as important as Koopas, Goombas in the Mario series, and has only .1% chacne of appearing in Brawl. O, and Bowser Jr. is the most likely Mario newcomer, for sure. He plays the main villian in the best selling DS game (NEW Super Mario Bros.), and in the #2 best selling GC game (Super Mario Sunshine). Check the WW Link thread for my WW Link moveset, and I had a Brawl roster a few pages back that was good IMO (then again I made it).

I think that the idea of "clones" were a nice gesture, but some characters (Ganondorf especially) were done an injustice by their respective inclusions. Young Link, Doc and Pichu were all silly inclusions and I'm looking forward to their collective absence in Brawl. Ganondorf needs his own original moveset, as does Falco (or at least more differentiation). Roy can bugger off for all I care.

Doc silly, you must be joking. He is one of the most popular Melee characters, and was a good one game character. Check the Melee 2006-2007 tiers to be proven wrong. YLink is one of the more commonly played low tier characters by pros, if not the most (along wtih Link). Pichu is worthless, unless you are a visionary genius like Chu Dat. And Roy pwns!

Slightly off-topic ranting aside, "remixes" of existing characters (YLink, WWLink, Doc, PM, Pichu, Raichu, whatever) have no place in the next game. It was a shame that they took up the places more unique characters in Melee; I can only hope that the same thing doesn't happen with Brawl.

Clones are bad, boy that's dumb. It was either include 6 clones, or 1 original character. 21 characters, or 26, and the clones worked out nicely. Don't diss the clones, they allow more character additions.

 

[Phaazoid]

Well here's mine

Mario series
1 Mario
2 Luigi
3 Peach
4 Bowser
5 Bowser Jr. /Shadow Mario
6 Toad

Yoshi series
7 Yoshi

Wario series
8 Wario

Star Fox series
9 Fox
10 Krystal
11 Fox

Pokemon series
12 Pikachu
13 Mewtwo or Deoxys(either one I don't care)
14 Lucario

Zelda series
15 Link
16 Zelda
17 Ganondorf
18 Vaati or Skull Kid(perferably Vaati)
19 Wolf Link and Midna
20 Wind Waker Link

Fire Emblem series
21 Marth
22 Ike
23 Lyn
24 Hector

Kirby series
25 Kirby
26 King DeDeDe
27 Metaknight

DK series
28 DK
29 Diddy and Dixie

F Zero series
30 Captain Falcon
31 Black Shadow

Metroid Prime series
32 Samus
33 Zamus
34 Ridley

Animal Crossing
35 Mr Resetti

Earthbound series
36 Ness or Lucas I don't care

Pikmin series
37 Captain Olimar

Retro
38 Pit
39 Balloon Fighter
40 Geno( I know Mario series but I consider him retro)

Other
41 Mii
42 Sonic
43 Snake

Critique if you like.

beta prime, we saved each other from double posts. too bad editing is down.

-1.5 for exceeding limit(by a lot), shadow mario counts as separate. thats 44
-1 for 3 links.
-.5 for haveing two gba fe reps, when black knight or others are more deserving
-1 for ressetti, animal crossing won't get a playable rep, nook was there best bet.
5/10, needs improvement

i suggest cutting black shadow(horrible character), ressetti(no chance), and bowser jr/shadow mario. (8 mario reps is way over the top and we don't need another mario). .

 

[Phaazoid]

@chibirobo
sorry, i misread your list. it is actually 7/10, i forgot to exclude snake, i saw 3 listed for third party and didn't look further.

 

[beta_prime]

smausrules93 Black Shadow should be in just because we need another F zero character and since Samurai Goro wan unconfirmed so... and with the controversy about the Animal Crossing symbol he might just have a chance. Also why does shadow mario count as seperate. I could easily cut that list by eight that's just at most. Bowser Jr. is as Johnknight1 said the main villan of two great games. Young Link eh people want him in, why not. And lyn and hector I think either one could be in but not both and again just the list at most.

And how come I got took off because I have too many but Chibirobo has the same amount.

 

[Phaazoid]

@beta prime
i know, but the limit was forty. shadow mario counts separate for the same reason shiek did and zamus does. i hate ww link but i took off because you put wolf link and normal link with him. put solo midna for a point back. or just cut ww link. or both, for reasons aeris stated. cut either hector or lyn then, as well as ressetti, 2 more, and you got yourself an 8/10.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Fox:
Wolf- Pleases fans of the Wolf without adding another clone
Adventures Fox- The game might have sucked, but Fox's duds were SWEET!
Assault Fox- The spacy, pilot-like suit

Luigi:
Mr. L- The evil Luigi setup from SPM, just not alll papery
Waluigi- Might be a bit of a stretch (No pun intended) But where else would he go?

Samus:
Dark Samus- We all saw it coming.

Wario:
Original Wario- The Yellow and Purple clan villian he first appeared as
Wario-Man- Stouter than an Iron Burrito! Wario's Wacky Alter-ego is a great alt

 

[DonkeySmasher]

for some reason seeing dr. wright as an AT makes me think that Stanley is a shoe in for AT

he's old and only recognizable by hard core gamers
He represents the dk arcade series without taking too much insight from them

 

[jimmysilverrims]

By tomorrow, I'm willing to bet that Sakurai will adress the whole Animal Crossing problem he's put himself in by Monday.

 

[Johnknight1]

@beta prime
i know, but the limit was forty. shadow mario counts separate for the same reason shiek did and zamus does. i hate ww link but i took off because you put wolf link and normal link with him. put solo midna for a point back. or just cut ww link. or both, for reasons aeris stated. cut either hector or lyn then, as well as ressetti, 2 more, and you got yourself an 8/10.

Midna solo or with Wolf Link is probably going to happen, and aeris' reasons weren't that good, I'm sorry. If you doubt WW Link's awsomeness, then here' my moveset for him that I made yesterday!

nB: Bow: Since I think Link's will be upgraded, WW Link should keep the old one. It should be the fire arrow still, and it should be able have less lag to pull out, for super spamming.

<B>: Boomerang: With Link getting the Gale Boomerang, and it probably is more of a damage racker than stun or impact move, I say WW Link's boomerang should be a good stunner, doing 20% less damage than Link's boomerang. It's stun is perfect for combos, and doing a full on spam charage against your enemy (simliar to Falco's laser, little damage, good impact for high comboability).

uB: Spin Attack: Spin Attack, Spin Attack, Spin Attack. We love the spin attack, it is a good move (though many overuse it, Link's is great for defensive positioning). It should stay similar to YLink's, being a damage racker, but it should do more damage, and at the end it does a good impact hit, with good stun. With that siad, it wouldn't be a KOable move, unless you get your opponent way up in the 700 percentile area! It can rack up to 17% or 18% damage.

Also, it would be neat is you could hold uB, you do the hurrican spin, with a insane amount of damage racking ability, but little impact and great stun to combo the hell out of your opponents. However, it takes 3 seconds to charge, and it can do up to 40% damage. The final spin slice does good impact and extremely godo stun, hitting your opponent far. However, if you miss the final slash, you'll be vulnerable (dizzy) for 3 seconds. You're vulnerable for 3 seconds even if you hit the final slash on the super spin attack, but the impact is good enough to keep your opponent trying to recover for over 3 seconds.

It is KOable on the light characters around 150%, and for the heaviest of characters around 190%. Hard to work, and it doesn't stop, unless you press B again. It's max time is 6 seconds (it goes insanley fast like MK's nA continual), and for 2 every second you do it, when you press B you're vulnerable (dizzy) for 1 second (2 frames=1 frame vulerable). If your opponent does any non-smash or strong/long range special attack on you and your sword hits it, you run through them.

Also, if your oppnent does a long range attack and hits your blade, you stop doing the spin attack 5 spins (1 spin=2%, and you do 4 spins per second), and then contiunes unless cancelled (in which you won't be vulnerable! . If your opponent does a smash attack or strong melee B attack, then WW Link does 3 less slashes, and you are vulnerable (though you can press Z to cancel). you can control which way you go doing this attack, and can jump (it's like a short hop) while doing this (you'll continue swinging), and it is controlled with the controll stick. Really in depth, lol!

dB: The way I see it, it will go 3 was. I list them in order from ones I like the most, to the least.

Option 1: Bombs: The bombs returning would make WW Link the ultimate spam artillary character! With nB as the fast and chargeable decent damage and some shorter combos, <B> being the stunner and impact for all sorts of combos, the bombs should be the damage racker one. It would be diffrent from bombs in the past, doing 9% damage this time, and taking about 30% the time to pull out (I hate the lag). It does barely any impact (it couldn't even Ko someone at 999% damage most the time0, but it does good stun, and good damage.

Great for long range spamming, and this time WW Link can throw it farther on ground by a good margin over YLink, but just barely further than Y Link in terms of throwing it midair. This is my fav, giving WW Link the most spam attacks in the game, and that gives him so many options of approaching the opponent! Also, combined with WW Link's wavedashing (or wavelanding) (which is decent, about Fox's, if no a tad bit longer) and his shorthopping, he can do a good spam combo, like Falco's shorthop (with or without Wavedashing). Plus, the time to pull out the bombs can be done during wavedashing=options=YES!

Option 2: Skull Hammer: Link pulls out the skull hammer and quickly swings. 15 frame lag, and does around 15% damage. It can be done in air like Kirby, but instead Link does a full mid air flip attack, and it does up to around 15% like it does on land, but with 12 frames lag. Good for randomness, and not good to use constantly or a lot=more for mindgames and randomness!

Option 3: Deku Leaf: Link pulls out the Deku Leaf, exactly like Peach's uB (Parasola). You get smacked either by the leaf or WW Link, and can do up to 9% damage, with exellent stun, and only a small amout of impact. Also, it can be floated with exactly like Peach's uB, and randomly boosts up like that too, but not as high. In other words, it doesn't instantly go up as high (Link does a random jump midair, or a hard push off the ground while on the ground), but it doesn't fall as fast.

Good for recovery, but I feel it is kinda unneccissary, since WW Link would already have the spin attack, and his hookshot and/or grapple hook. But hey, it would work, and you never know, but overall I think it would overpower WW Link, and we want the tiers as balanced as possible, so I'll hold back!

Wait, i have a idea! How about you hold it down and release dB to charge more damage, stun, and impact (It could gain double the damage=18, a bit more stun, and great impact for comboability, especially in teams by charging for the 3 second max), and quickly press dB to jump. The deku leaf overhead gust attack would have about 20 frame lag (1/3rd a second), and would do 8 damage minimum (18 max for 3 second charge max), good impact (woulld barely KO a opponent at 300%, and would be perfect for combos), and would do a well above average amount of stun (that only increases the longer you charge).

Also like Samus' nB, you can charge it and save it for later to pwn people with! And you can also charge it midair, or hold it X amount of frames (10) to unleash it mid air, even charged like Samus' nB fully charged blast! I think that would work, any thoughts=???

Here, I'll make part of a A moveset:

A: slash downward 3%

AA:sdown slash, rising slash 5% (3%, 2%)

AAA:down slash, rising slash, horizontile (side up) slash 9% (3%, 2%, 4%)

A hold (previously A repeatiately push): same as AAA, but then crazy slashes liuke MK, going in the same order as AAA, but then the opposite side horizontile slash (side down), then the same thing but the other angle of horizontle slashes, then a sideways slash one way, and then another the opposite way, and then repeat.

running A: WW Link does a quick jump slash forward, most oftenly hitting the opponent's head or upper body (the A counter used against the Darknuts in WW). 7% Decent damage, small impact, and well above aveerage stun for rA attacks.

<A> smash: Jump Slash: Link does a jumping slash, and does good damage. It's basically A forward while in lock-on mode in all the 3D zeldas. In fact, it is exactly like that. 16%-24%. Very comboable, does good impact (good for combos, not KOs), and a bit above average stun.

dAtilt: Link does a quick and ever powerful slash down. This does 12% damage, and does good damage, good impact, but only about 5 frames stun max. Good for racking damage, and is sorta like Fox's dAtilt in Melee, though isn't as good for KO'ing opponents.

dAsmash: Same as in Melee, a slash forward and back, but this time with more damaging swings. Each do 15%-23% damage, and does considerably good damage, good impact just enough to move away or to oponents, not really for Koing except in the 200%'s), and little stun.

uAtilt: WW Link swings upward in a sideways upswing, doing small damage, but can be pressed (maybe held like the nA attacks now) for repeatided use. Does 3% damage, but can be repeated as a combo, and has average stun, some impact. After about 15%-20% they can break free (they can also break free before then), but this combo really only works when they are in the 0%-40% percentiles, or 50% for heavier characters. This move requires timing in the first slash, and knowing when to use it, when to stop using it, and how to combo after finishing using it. Perfect for WW Link IMO

uAsmash: This is where I begin to get more crafty! WW Link angles his body up, swings up in the air, 3 times in a stabbing motion, much like the dAair or uAair of Link's and YLink's. This can do anyhwere from 16% if all 3 are hit to 28% (4%-6%, 6%-10%, 6%-12%).

The first hit is the most comboable, and does just enough impact to make the opponent mid air or on ground to rise for the next slash, and stunned enough for the next slash. The 2nd slash is the weakness: it does more damage, does some impact, but barely enough stun to keep the enemy stunned for the final slash. Most the time the final slash will be slashed, and it does good damage, barely any stun outside of the character being hit up hard, and very KOable in terms of impact. If your opponent is at 170% it is basically a guarenteed a KO even with the heaviest of characters, at the lowest charged full uAsmash combo.

nAair: WW Link does a swift stab, doing minimal damage (7%), little impact, and great stun. If you do this while shorthopping you can go combo-crazy into a sAtilt or sAsmash. A perfect air to land combo move, or land to air to land combo as well!

<A>air: WW Link slashes forward hard, doing a frongflip while still slashing. A good damage racker (does 14%), has little lag (5 frames), barely any stun (njk), great impact (very KOable in the 150%'s). Perfect for doing a one hit damage racker, KOing your opponent, or for just hitting your opponent to kill them while they try recoverying via air!

Also, it is great for distancing yourself from your opponent, and allowing you time to spam with your B moves! Can be used in many offensive and defensive ways! Think of it as a useful move in many fields, but keep in mind 5 frames can be the game, and timing is everything with this attack!

dAair: I have two ideas on this! Here they are, ino orders of the one i like most to the one I like least (I liked both ideas, it's just idea #1>idea #2.):

1.Swordplant: WW Link downthrusts his sword, into the ever famous swordplant formation/positioning! (how to kill Ganondorf: Stab him in the F***** head when he;s 10 times your size=this moment is screwattack.com's #1 in their top ten ways to die! XD) WW Link's stab normally does (17%) good damage, great stun, and some impact (especially if you do it 3 times). Here is where it gets intrstesting, in that this move can be comboed again and again, and again.

The 2nd time it does 14% damage (a tad bit above average), more (good) stun, and more (decent) impact, and the 3rd (and most often final), it does 13% damage (average), good stun, and barely any impact. Landing three is hard, and more than not you'll only get one, but you can land three every few matches. Also, continuing the swordplant isn't the only combo for this anymore. You can go and press A to cancel the swordplant fast, and combo/damage your opponent while their stunned.

This has just decent stun, and can be pretty intresting. You can attack and customize this attack in multiple ways and from multiple angles, a lot more so than YLink's or Link's in Melee or SSB64. It has noticeably less lag, and more comboability. Also, the DI control really kicks in. Holding down on the control stick makes you go down faster, and you can add 1%-3% more damage doing so, as well as very KOable impact (in the 140%'s the full down DI is basically a instant KO, though against good smashers you will never hit them this way).

If you click sideways on the control stick or more upwards, you can also cancel this attack, as well as with the A and Z buttons. This move is very useful, but not one to pull out. Also, the end lag (where you're sword is in the ground) is virtually 90% less, and allows you more time to move. Plus the DI and swordplany cancelling kicks in, for more help for WW Link from being a lag machine!

2.WW Link slashes down hard, which does okay damage (8%), GREAT impact (often makes opponents in the 40%'s up hit the ground and bounce back up to you), and good stun. But here is where I get intresting with this. The opponent bounces up to you, and you can use your nAair or <A>air to hurt them. This is the best air to air combo attack, and could be tricky to work (it has 10 frames lag) with the lag, but if you get past that you can get some pretty intresting combos.

uAair: Upplant or Upstab: Wind Waker Link stabs straight upwards with a very damaging stab. It does great damage (17%), below average stun, and only some impact. Great for being used when short hopping and your opponent is on a platform above you, jumped above you, you hit them up (whether they're stunned or not), or they simply jumped or are above you. Has only 6 frames pre-attack lag, and 2 frames post-attack lag.

If done correctly with shorthopping you could get three hits in, though unlikely. Good for individual damage, and some combos. A very all-around move to say the least that is good in air vs. ground (you) type of situations, whether it is done offensively or defnesively! Great for basically anything, though it should only be pulled out maybe 6 to 10 times per match preferably, but you never know what type of situation you'll be in, so it is kinda hard to judge how and when to use this attack IMO to be honest!

grabs:

Grabbing opponent: Hookshot: Wind Waker Link shoots out his hookshot, and grabs opponent. If missed there are 6 frames of vulnerability, and 2 frames of pre-attack lag. If grab is successful, there are anyhwere from 2-10 frames of lag to pull them in. Know your distancing from them in this in FFA's or teams (epsecially teams), because you don't want to be vulnerable to other opponents.

Basic grab hits: Link holds his enemy with his hookshot, while he slashes up to down horizontily, down to up horizontily, and then the opposite of on each sides. 2% and 3%. (15-20 frames lag inbetween each hit)

Up throw: Wind Waker Link grabbing them with his hookshot pulls them in, aims them up, and stabs them. Does massive damage for a grab throw (10%), does well below average impact (just enough to escape), and barely any stun (3 frames=just enough to escape). More of a one hit move than comboable, but does good damage for racking up damage on enemies in the 50%-90% percentile ranges. (4 frames post-attack lag)

Down Throw: Wind Waker Link kciks them into the floor. Does well below average damage (5%), GREAT impact, decent stun, and best of all makes your opponent slam into the ground, and then slide off 6 or so feet. Intesting and origianal, and if you're quick you can use your dAair on them, and maybe pull off a combo if timed right, but that is something only the better players cna pull off, unless you're lucky! (3 frames post-attack lag)

Side Forward Throw: Wind Waker Link lets go of his opponent with his hookshot, and barely pushes them forward (doing no damage). Then he quickly slashes, and they get hit and fly back. Does above average damage (7%), does good impact for most grabs, and has little stun. It is more of a spacing, defensive, and spam attack preperation grab then anything else. More of a setup then a way to rack damage or combo your enemies! More of a situation grab than a use regulary grab, you gotta know/feel when to use this one!

Side Back Throw: This one is intresting, I have a good idea. Wind Waker Link kicks them back (0% damage) while holding them, and he does a backfilp, and as he releases them, he slashes forward and hits them good. Does average damage (7%), barely any impact (other than they hit the ground and bounce back up), and exellent stun. The perfect grab throw for conbos and insane customibility, for sure.

Sdie Up Throw: Wind Waker Link throws his opponent up in a sideways angle, and throws his boomerang at them. Does below average damage (5%), barely any impact (you won't even see it), and GREAT stun (though they are often too high up to combo). If you know how to work this, you can enter spam mode, then combo off that, and do good damage. A move that isn't useful unless you know how to be creative, unorthodox, and highly original!

Z air: Link pulls out the grapple hook, and swings and smacks his opponent with it. Has lag (8 frames pre-attack, 4 frames post-attack), does very good damage (12%), does great stun, and does just barely any impact. Requires good timing, and if done short hoping or just above ground it's super comboable. However, in high air combat it isn't really comboable. But in air to land situations this move is perfect if you can time and deal with the lag. Something to work with, and get crazy and unorthodox with.

Also, like the Hookshot in Melee, the grapple hook can grab onto platforms and stages, but with less lag (8 frames to pull yourself in). It also has about 20% more range than Link's hookshot, a lot less lag, and just better all around. Great as a optional jump!

^^^^ Now how is that not a good moveset=??? Who wouldn't be satified with that moveset for any character, much less Wind Waker Link! Wind Waker Link for BRAWL!

@ DonkeySmash
Stanely and Donkey Kong Junior as AT ftw!

 

[Chibirobo]

Paper Mario? PAPER MARIO?! Whaaaat? How? WHY?

(This isn't directed at you, Chibirobo; it's a general criticism. Just to make that clear, hahah).

I do NOT for a moment understand why people opt for Paper Mario over other perfectly eligible Mario candidates: Toad, Waluigi and Birdo are three that come to mind right off the bat. Heck, you could even include Kamek on that list, and I'm not including Geno or Mallow because of the third-party controversy. How ANYONE could opt for another incarnation of Mario over another character is beyond me. It's not just my Toad fanboy-ism speaking here. Why WWLink or YLink? You could just as easily make room for Midna, Skull Kid, Sheik (separately), Happy Mask Salesman...the possibilities are nearly endless. I know some of you value clones because they give "more characters" and because they "take up less space".

1) Were they to include PM, he would probably be less of a clone and have a moveset more focused on his dimension-shifting.
2) Another Mario is just as boring as another Link (Young or WW). Both franchises have such rich casts of characters that to take the bland route and include yet another version of the hero is just insipid. What about variety?

I think that the idea of "clones" were a nice gesture, but some characters (Ganondorf especially) were done an injustice by their respective inclusions. Young Link, Doc and Pichu were all silly inclusions and I'm looking forward to their collective absence in Brawl. Ganondorf needs his own original moveset, as does Falco (or at least more differentiation). Roy can bugger off for all I care.

Slightly off-topic ranting aside, "remixes" of existing characters (YLink, WWLink, Doc, PM, Pichu, Raichu, whatever) have no place in the next game. It was a shame that they took up the places more unique characters in Melee; I can only hope that the same thing doesn't happen with Brawl.

I'm sorry, Paper Mario is more important than Toad,Waluigi,Birdo,and Daisy. He may be a different version of a character,but at least he's had his own game,the others you mentioned are just bit players(Okay,Toad is fairly major,but not as much as PM) Besides,PM wuold have a much better moveset than those guys,anyway.

-1 for paper mario. what were you thinking?
-1 for 3 third parties. sakurai said max was 2
-2 for laughing dog and ressetti. animal crossing isn't getting a playable rep, and the laughing dog, i don't need to elaborate.

Look at my response for Aeris's post for the Paper Mario thing.

About Mr.Resetti: Care to explain why an AC character won't make it in(this is weird for me because this the only AC character I actually like) and what wrong with Laughing Dog? He has plenty of stuff going for him:

1.He would be the perfect retro and WTF character.

2.He could have a great moveset.

3.You KNOW you wouldn't mind beaten the crap out him.

You do have me on the 3rd party thing,however.

6/10
ok, needs improvment

 

[jimmysilverrims]

PM, I agree, is a much better character than the likess of Toad, but do we need another 2D character or another Mario?

@ Johnknight1, WW Link could be a lot more inderesting and not cloned than what you put down, for example, instead of a boomerang he could send out a seagull that he could temprarily control and could make it fly around and attack people/pick up items, but his body would be vulnerable. Or dB he could pull out bombs, but if he hits B when he has a bomb he'll make a bomb arrow. Or, his Up B could be the Deku leaf and his down B could be Iron boots as a fast falling attack, but he could keep it that way and be heavier and be resilant to attacks. And that's like, off the top of my head.

Just as a message to all, if this game is going to be the awesomeness that we all wnt it to be then we need to stop thinking in a Melee mindset. If you think that it's too difrent from what Melee was than its probably whats going to happen, because Sakurai is saying that Brawl's getting a new 'flavor' and I think that keeping clones and crap is a bad idea, if you want to do a spin attack, or a laser shot, or a fortress, THAN USE THE CHARACTER THAT HAS THAT MOVE! If you're going to waste a character space, at least make it an interesting and unique character that people will remember as a main, not as a clone of their main.

But, I rant. (And I'm not the first.) but, to cap it all up, stop thining inside the box. Exit your comfort zone and you'll find that the grass is greener on the other side.

 

[Masque]

Well obviously you either haven't played WW, or are ill informed. WW Link slashes diffrently from all the other Links, has completely diffrent items, and has originality. Plus WW Link is the star of two important games, has a original sword fighting style, and has a completely original design. And how is Toad more important then that, he's ionly played minor rolls. Major characters minor series>Minor characters major series.

In fact, Toad is as important as Koopas, Goombas in the Mario series, and has only .1% chacne of appearing in Brawl. O, and Bowser Jr. is the most likely Mario newcomer, for sure. He plays the main villian in the best selling DS game (NEW Super Mario Bros.), and in the #2 best selling GC game (Super Mario Sunshine). Check the WW Link thread for my WW Link moveset, and I had a Brawl roster a few pages back that was good IMO (then again I made it).

I think what's really funny is that you talk about how "completely original" WWLink is, but post a special moveset that is nearly identical to Link's own with a few twists. That, my friend, is the "remix" that I'm talking about. Why go for something slightly different when you could have something totally different? I'm not even talking something from the same franchise at this point. Who would you rather see: WWLink or Little Mac? Mike Jones? Skapon? Captain Olimar? I think the latter four characters all have much more to offer in terms of originality and fun when compared to WWLink. His "unique" sword style is overshadowed by the fact that we really don't need such an abundance of sword characters. Smash =/= Soul Calibur (both series, however, are wonderful in their own respective ways).

Doc silly, you must be joking. He is one of the most popular Melee characters, and was a good one game character. Check the Melee 2006-2007 tiers to be proven wrong. YLink is one of the more commonly played low tier characters by pros, if not the most (along wtih Link). Pichu is worthless, unless you are a visionary genius like Chu Dat. And Roy pwns!

You argue that Toad (Kinopio) is insignificant (despite having two starring roles and a number of other titles to boot), but Doc is good (despite only having one game, essentially). May I remind you that Doc is yet another "remix": a character with a slightly different playstyle but most of the same moves, along with a few minor twists. YLink does nothing for me; I'd much rather just take Link himself. Roy doesn't impress me either, but it's a matter of taste. At least we can agree that Pichu sucks.

Clones are bad, boy that's dumb. It was either include 6 clones, or 1 original character. 21 characters, or 26, and the clones worked out nicely. Don't diss the clones, they allow more character additions.

Here is where I believe that our greatest dichotomy lies: you value quantity, while I value originality. By that, I don't mean to say that we each value one exclusively and not the other; instead, I think that we each place more emphasis on our respective preferences. I don't like the clones because I think that having original characters make the game more fun. I don't need 8 versions of Mario or 6 different Links. Heck, I'm even on the fence about two Samuses. I appreciate the fact that clones were included so more characters could appear. I only wish that the characters would have been more varied and not just aesthetically altered and slightly different from their original counterparts.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

It hurts my soul to see that Fierce Deity wasn't even worth mentioning in Wiseguy's predictions. Ah well, I guess he's too obscure...

*pouts for all of two seconds before getting distracted by pie...sweet delecious pie.*

 

[Johnknight1]

I think what's really funny is that you talk about how "completely original" WWLink is, but post a special moveset that is nearly identical to Link's own with a few twists. That, my friend, is the "remix" that I'm talking about. Why go for something slightly different when you could have something totally different? I'm not even talking something from the same franchise at this point. Who would you rather see: WWLink or Little Mac? Mike Jones? Skapon? Captain Olimar? I think the latter four characters all have much more to offer in terms of originality and fun when compared to WWLink. His "unique" sword style is overshadowed by the fact that we really don't need such an abundance of sword characters. Smash =/= Soul Calibur (both series, however, are wonderful in their own respective ways).

It is a luigified clone moveset, and if you go to the Wind Waker Link's moves thread you will find tons upon tons of original movesets that work. And Olimar is all but guarenteed, I have no idea and don't care who Skapoon, and Little Mac is nowhere near as important to Nintendo as WW Link. Here is why he is important. And around here, it isn't a remix, it's a clone, and if you look at my ideas, I made it to where he could share a few moves, but he could be anywhere from a Luigified clone, to so Luigified he isn't a clone.

1.He is the star of WW, the #1 selling GC that doesn't have Mario in it (#4 overall).

2.Phantom Hourglass also stars WW Link, and it is the 2nd besst selling game this year there, behind only Pokemon D/P itself!

3.Probably along with TP Link, he's the new long running series Link. He's virtually like the LOZ and Zelda II Link in a sense.


3.Who would you rather see? Little Mac as a original, or WW Link, Falco, and K. Rool as Luigified clones=???

4.He has a massive fanbase, and has tons of potential of being one of the great 5 LOZ reps! And the LOZ deserves 5 reps, no questions asked, by anyone!

You argue that Toad (Kinopio) is insignificant (despite having two starring roles and a number of other titles to boot), but Doc is good (despite only having one game, essentially). May I remind you that Doc is yet another "remix": a character with a slightly different playstyle but most of the same moves, along with a few minor twists. YLink does nothing for me; I'd much rather just take Link himself. Roy doesn't impress me either, but it's a matter of taste. At least we can agree that Pichu sucks.

Ya, in spin-offs and yelling help. He might have starred in SMB2, but I'm apparently one of the few who likes it more than the original. Two signifigant rolls is nothing compared to two starring rolls, especially when the two starring rolls are more modern, and more popular.

Also, how could Toad have a original moveset=??? In SMB2 he does everything the other 3 characters do, and he hasn't fought ever really. He would need to be a completely smash original moveset, while WW Link's could easily be loaded over from his 2 games. Plus I imagine he could have some Phantom Hourglass moves that we don't know as well.

Pichu sucks, except when pros like Chu Dat tear the best apart with Pichu. Then everyone goes wtf???, and Chu Dat pwns the competition with the least likely to pick character.

Here is where I believe that our greatest dichotomy lies: you value quantity, while I value originality. By that, I don't mean to say that we each value one exclusively and not the other; instead, I think that we each place more emphasis on our respective preferences. I don't like the clones because I think that having original characters make the game more fun. I don't need 8 versions of Mario or 6 different Links. Heck, I'm even on the fence about two Samuses. I appreciate the fact that clones were included so more characters could appear. I only wish that the characters would have been more varied and not just aesthetically altered and slightly different from their original counterparts.[/QUOTE]

Having original characters is fun, but wat about when the Brawl team runs out of time=??? It's either Falco as a original character, or Falco, Wolf, and K. Rool as [luigified] clones. time is of the essense, and I want quality and originality, but clones add some odd bit of originality. Look at Fox and Falco and Fox and Falco users. As someone who uses both, I utilize them completely diffrent, and same thing goes for Roy/Marth, Ganondorf/Falcon, Pichu/Pikachu [even], Link/YLink, and even a bit with Doc/Mario.

I'm not saying insane amounts of clones, I'm saying I'd rather have 9 clones and 37 original moveset characters over 40 original moveset characters. That way more people get what they want, certain movesets can be utilized completely diffrently and individually, and a bigger variation in character mains.

We all wish that original characters could be added as easily as clones, but that isn't the case. So why not get some Luigified clones=??? Spice things up, and compair the best Mario and Luigi users for a bit. Almost none of what they do is the same. Yes, that is the future of clones, and if utilized properly, they'll be only a small step behind a original moveset.

Also, a good music update for the soul!

 

[SonicMario]

Not to get off topic on what you other guys are talking about, but Wiseguy what is your opinion on Mario & Sonic at the Olymic Games? When you hear the title, what 1st pops in your head?

 

[Johnknight1]

Not to get off topic on what you other guys are talking about, but Wiseguy what is your opinion on Mario & Sonic at the Olymic Games? When you hear the title, what 1st pops in your head?

Will Sonic be in Brawl, will Brawl and Sonic and Mario have online, and nice post count SonicMario=69! Mainly Brawl questions of course, predominately about the 3rd party characters.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Not to get off topic on what you other guys are talking about, but Wiseguy what is your opinion on Mario & Sonic at the Olymic Games? When you hear the title, what 1st pops in your head?

Thats what I was saying in the Sonic Thread. If Nintendo let Sega have Mario characters, I'm sure in turn they would let Nintendo have SOnic for Brawl.

 

[Smile Guy]

Paper Mario? PAPER MARIO?! Whaaaat? How? WHY?

(This isn't directed at you, Chibirobo; it's a general criticism. Just to make that clear, hahah).

I do NOT for a moment understand why people opt for Paper Mario over other perfectly eligible Mario candidates: Toad, Waluigi and Birdo are three that come to mind right off the bat. Heck, you could even include Kamek on that list, and I'm not including Geno or Mallow because of the third-party controversy. How ANYONE could opt for another incarnation of Mario over another character is beyond me. It's not just my Toad fanboy-ism speaking here. Why WWLink or YLink? You could just as easily make room for Midna, Skull Kid, Sheik (separately), Happy Mask Salesman...the possibilities are nearly endless. I know some of you value clones because they give "more characters" and because they "take up less space".

1) Were they to include PM, he would probably be less of a clone and have a moveset more focused on his dimension-shifting.
2) Another Mario is just as boring as another Link (Young or WW). Both franchises have such rich casts of characters that to take the bland route and include yet another version of the hero is just insipid. What about variety?

I think that the idea of "clones" were a nice gesture, but some characters (Ganondorf especially) were done an injustice by their respective inclusions. Young Link, Doc and Pichu were all silly inclusions and I'm looking forward to their collective absence in Brawl. Ganondorf needs his own original moveset, as does Falco (or at least more differentiation). Roy can bugger off for all I care.

Slightly off-topic ranting aside, "remixes" of existing characters (YLink, WWLink, Doc, PM, Pichu, Raichu, whatever) have no place in the next game. It was a shame that they took up the places more unique characters in Melee; I can only hope that the same thing doesn't happen with Brawl.

But Paper Mario and Wind Waker Link have so much more potential than clones. I never fully understand people's arguments against Wind Waker Link and Paper Mario because I just don't think they're thinking things through.

"There's no point having multiple variations of one character. We had enough of that in Melee."
Wind Waker Link is actually a completely different Link. I know people say that it's still a waste of space but in Wind Waker Link's case, it's really, really not. The graphical style, first of all, would be unprecedented for the game and have that all-important unique feel. The moves DO NOT have to be the same to normal Link at all. Wind Waker Link could have a completely different moveset based from Wind Waker... power of the winds, grappling hook, seperate sword moves, bombs thrown in different way, spin attack, different recovery moves, etc, etc. And it's not as if Link and Wind Waker Link look very similar at all.
The same goes for Paper Mario... I mean C'MON! 3D Mario. 2D Mario. That has potential and it has a lot of it. Paper Mario could have moves involving his hammer, paper cut abilities, spin attacks, partners, RPG moves, items from games, etc, etc. How can people not see this potential just because they both have Mario and Link in their name. Mario and Link are essentially the two title cards for Smash after all!

-1 for paper mario. what were you thinking?
-1 for 3 third parties. sakurai said max was 2
-2 for laughing dog and ressetti. animal crossing isn't getting a playable rep, and the laughing dog, i don't need to elaborate.

6/10
ok, needs improvment

- He said there will probably be two more on top of Snake. There might be much less or there might be much more than that. I'm probably going to get a little bit flamed by this but I wouldn't be surprised if there are 5 or even 6. *closes eyes, ready to be killed*
- You're taking off a point because he put a unique character (Laughing Dog) that you personally dislike. Hmm... Sakurai himself said he would like to put in unusual characters. I personally expect Laughing Dog to be an AT, but I wouldn't take off a point because they think differently to me.
- And how do you know Animal Crossing isn't getting a playable rep? The odds are stacked in AC's favour because of the whole sign next to the stage and Ressetti and Tom Nook were the two most popular characters anyway.

/rant-ish

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Right you are Smile Guy, clones, I felt, were a waste of space. Either have an original character, beacause Falco was just like having two Fox's on the selection screen or two Marios, or two Pikachus, or two... *ulp* (Don't... want... to get... flammed) Cap. Falcons.

But some clones, (prefferably Gannondorf) can be saved with new movesets. Personally, I think that there should be absolutely no clones, not even a luigification. I want cool moves, if I wanted to Spin Attack I would have picked Link. IF I wanted To pull out a cape, I would have picked Mario. Smash Bros. Is a game of individuality and innovation, not a game of having onlya few new, interesting characters and ten more clones.

Why restrain yourself to what you've already seen? People want something new, so why make clones? That's right, there's no reason whatsoever. Some people may say: "It's easy to program" As true as that may be, do you think that Nintendo, who's trying to make this the biggest, most perfect game for the Wii, would they settle for anything less than the best? No.

To, once again, cap it all up, clones are redundant and uncreative, even if they're lugified and putting them in the game is a waste of space.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Not to upset anyone.
Pichu has basically the same moves, but hes a little bit smaller and a bit faster.
Roy is just a weak (But to the untrained player he seems stronger with the "Ph13r") clone of Marth.
Dr. Mario... Well.. to me he felt the most different but he is a clone too.

Yes... Clones may be different in some ways.. But to the untrained player.. (Like myself) they feel pretty much exactly the same.

New unique moves for everyone is my way I think a fighting game should be... Is this considered a fighting game? yes right?..

 

[Elysium]

The only "clone" I want to see come back is Falco. Though since most people are anti-clone, and anti-Falco, I'm sure few will agree with me. Though from what I've been seeing people are calling wolf to be a fox clone. If that is the case, why would they scrap falco's character model, and create a wolf model with fox's moveset. That doesn't make any sense, even if Falco has gotten his time in the "limelight". I think if anything Falco will get a semi-different moveset so he isn't so clone-ish.
Don't start an uproar and flame me for being stupid. This is my opinion as of now, and it has changed before because someone had shown me the flaws in my thoughts (wiseguy).
(Oh and I didn't mention Ganon because I doubt him coming back as a clone.)

 

[jimmysilverrims]

That's why I said Wolf would make a good alt costume for Fox, just like The Cap could look like Blood Hawk

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Falco was a popular choice since he was a clone of an already high tier character.. I believe they will let him stay but would have to change him a bit to rid him of the clone title.

 

[Elysium]

That's why I said Wolf would make a good alt costume for Fox, just like The Cap could look like Blood Hawk

Falco was a popular choice since he was a clone of an already high tier character.. I believe they will let him stay but would have to change him a bit to rid him of the clone title.

Excellent you guys, I would be happy with that. Though I'm sure the Pro-Wolf fans wouldn't be all to happy if their character was rep'd as an alt costume....

 

[beta_prime]

I really wish fox is a playable character not a alt costume. Besides Sakurai does want more villans.

 

[Viroxor]

They'll be fine. I'm all for the Wolf-man, don't get me wrong, but not only is Mr. Lombardi my favorite Star Fox character, he also is more deserving of a spot, and a non-clone one at that. Btw, Wolf-man=Wolf O'Donnell, and Mr. Lombardi=Falco Lombardi.

 

[Elysium]

@Beta :: You meant Wolf right?

@Viroxor :: I feel the same way. But then again, I would love to see Krystal in Brawl *almost* as much as Falco (if not a little more..... ). Why can't they all be in!!!

 

[jimmysilverrims]

I feel the same way, why can't everyone get in? Sadly, we'd be waiting until Sakurai died before we'd get Brawl.

Going on a tangent, I hope that in brawl they fix the whole problem of the characters passing through stuff. I hated that in Melee

 

[Phaazoid]

i want falco and gannondorf to return, with new movesets. i also want pichu, yl, doc, and roy/marth(i don't care which) to be gone. i hate clones and i hope none are in brawl

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Glad to see that everyone is in agreement on the anti-clone mindset.

 

[Masque]

It is a luigified clone moveset, and if you go to the Wind Waker Link's moves thread you will find tons upon tons of original movesets that work. And Olimar is all but guarenteed, I have no idea and don't care who Skapoon, and Little Mac is nowhere near as important to Nintendo as WW Link. Here is why he is important. And around here, it isn't a remix, it's a clone, and if you look at my ideas, I made it to where he could share a few moves, but he could be anywhere from a Luigified clone, to so Luigified he isn't a clone.

I would mind less if he were Luigi-fied, but the idea of WWLink still just doesn't sit with me. Yes, it's a different Link by timeline standards, but it's still Link. Love Link as I do, it's just hard for me to say that we should have another version of an existing character when you could do something bizarre and implement, say, Skull Kid instead. Rather than use WWLink, Skull Kid could swing a Deku stick instead of a sword, fire a Slingshot instead of a Bow, and maybe have a few more original specials. The mechanics of Link would still be there, but different enough to feel--and look--like a different character.

OnyxVulpine also brings about an interesting point: clones may feel different to people with experience, but to the casual gamer or the inexperienced, the differences are not drastic enough to notice. Not to say that Sakurai is pandering to the casual market with Smash, but it's just an interesting thing to point out.

Skapon is the main character from Joy Mech Fight, a Japan-only FDS title. It's a 2-D fighter with some similarities to Smash, and Skapon has appeared on Sakurai's poll (if I'm not mistaken). He/she/it is a fighting robot that looks like if Kirby swallowed Rayman. FlipTroopa posted a video on YouTube that should give you a good idea.

And Little Mac is DEFINITELY important to Nintendo! Punch-Out!! was a very successful title for the system and the series has earned fans from around the world. The series has also piqued Sakurai's interest, upping Mac's chances significantly. Mac's retro status also increases the likelihood of seeing him on the playable roster, also. Skapon and Mac FTW!

3.Who would you rather see? Little Mac as a original, or WW Link, Falco, and K. Rool as Luigified clones=???

Little Mac, 100%, no questions asked.

4.He has a massive fanbase, and has tons of potential of being one of the great 5 LOZ reps! And the LOZ deserves 5 reps, no questions asked, by anyone!

Weird: I just used the phrase "no questions asked" without reading the next line in which you used the same phrase. Hahah, anyway, remember that WWLink has a substantial number of detractors, as well. As far as the 5 reps go, I would far prefer Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Midna and either Skull Kid or Sheik. Personal preferences, eh wot?

Ya, in spin-offs and yelling help. He might have starred in SMB2, but I'm apparently one of the few who likes it more than the original. Two signifigant rolls is nothing compared to two starring rolls, especially when the two starring rolls are more modern, and more popular.

He also starred in Wario's Woods, a Tetris-inspired puzzle game in which Toad faced off against *gasp* Wario! A prelude to Brawl? We'll just have to wait and see.

The same arguments, however, could be utilized against Peach's inclusion as well. She has had two starring roles: SMB2 and Super Princess Peach. All her other playable roles, like Toad's, have been in party, racing and sports games. Just some food for thought.

Also, how could Toad have a original moveset=??? In SMB2 he does everything the other 3 characters do, and he hasn't fought ever really. He would need to be a completely smash original moveset, while WW Link's could easily be loaded over from his 2 games. Plus I imagine he could have some Phantom Hourglass moves that we don't know as well.

Not necessarily true. His UpB could be the Magic Carpet from SMB2, his SideB could be his Mushroom Kart from the MK series (which is not outside the realm of possibilities, thanks to the Wario Chopper), his DownB could be Turnips (but more varied than Peach's version, featuring Pumpkins, Subcon potions, Bombs, etc.) and his B could toss out Stars (MP series), Bombs (WW), Dice (MP series), whathaveyou. Those are just the special moves. Toad has plenty of options; check out "Toad Discussion" for example movesets posted sporadically throughout the thread.

Having original characters is fun, but wat about when the Brawl team runs out of time=??? It's either Falco as a original character, or Falco, Wolf, and K. Rool as [luigified] clones. time is of the essense, and I want quality and originality, but clones add some odd bit of originality. Look at Fox and Falco and Fox and Falco users. As someone who uses both, I utilize them completely diffrent, and same thing goes for Roy/Marth, Ganondorf/Falcon, Pichu/Pikachu [even], Link/YLink, and even a bit with Doc/Mario.

I have no personal attachment to Wolf or K. Rool (ahhh, the infected eye!), so it's a no-brainer. With other, more attractive choices, however, the decision might be more difficult for me to reach. And just thinking about the injustice done to Ganondorf gets me flustered. He DESERVED an original moveset, but certainly got the shaft. Pity.

We all wish that original characters could be added as easily as clones, but that isn't the case. So why not get some Luigified clones=??? Spice things up, and compair the best Mario and Luigi users for a bit. Almost none of what they do is the same. Yes, that is the future of clones, and if utilized properly, they'll be only a small step behind a original moveset.

The future of clones depends on Luigifaction, though. Luigi "based on" Mario or "inspired by" Mario, not "cloned from". There are plenty of differences in their regular moves, including noticeably different specials. I'm even hoping for more differences this time around, like implementation of the Poltergust 5000 (or 3000 or whatever). He is what the other clones should aspire to be: a character with similarities to the original character, but largely different from his or her counterpart. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that any new "clones" feel like anything but.

I'm far too lazy to separate the quoted segments with quote tags, so I just responded in bold.

 

[Wiseguy]

I can't beleive I've been neglecting my precious Predictions thread... I guess my Smashers Unite! thread has been taking alot of my internet time....

I'm with you there Wiseguy! Signed the petition, I'm watching
the whole E3 2007 Nintendo Conference, and I'll probably send my e-mail to Nintendo
today or tomorrow.

Thanks a ton for your support JK1, esspecially for putting a link to my thread on your
sig.

In anyone else hasn't seen the thread yet, it's right here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109475

Yes, Brawl needs a good single player, as soemthing to do when bored. And actually
20-30% of people don't have internet, and they need stuff to do when not facing another
person!

True enough, but I felt the single player mode in Melee was plenty robust. Besides Wii owners have plenty of full fledged single players adventures - not the least of which being Mario Galaxy and Prime 3.

Shall I convince you to replace Tom Nook with Resetti?

Here's the moveset I have created:

Aside from that, Tom Nook could easily be removed from the background if someone were to choose him as a playable character :O

here's the original thread: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109503

-KevRed

One word: awesome!

All I can say is stay tuned later today for an update to my character roster.

Firstly, I signed the petition.
Secondly It feels good to be on the winning side.
Lastly, +1. (and oh yes, I wanna be cooler, so heres a multiquote)

Thanks for the support dude.

Signing the petition makes you 300% cooler.

Don't get me wrong... I'm desperately for Brawl as much as the next guy on these forums
but I just couldn't possibly remain hyped for so long. The 5 to 6 month wait with the
rest of the world playing it is actually going to kill me. I'll hear about how Geno and
Midna and Ridley are playable characters and I will actually cry. The wait will be
unbearable. I know full well that I will know all the characters in the game before I
get the game but it would be nice to have experienced it with everybody else on this
forum rather than second-hand, y'know?

Yeah, that does sound pretty lame...

Okay, point there. But your list has 6 reps for Link and Mario...so 5 pokemon reps is one under. Just like SSBM.

Yes, but I count clones like Pichu and Doc as characters. So that's why I chose to include 5 Mario reps (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser and BJ) , 5 Zelda reps (Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Young Link and Midna/Wolf tag team) and 4 Pokemon. The same numbers as were in Melee.

Yep, they're the pretty much dead-end choices but it would be nice for a little bit of
variety and frankly, I think Sakurai will deliver. My "dream" pokemon roster for Brawl
would be as follows:

- Pikachu
- Jigglypuff
- Mewtwo
- Sudowoodo (I know, he's chances are minute but he actually has the biggest fanbase for
a second generation pokemon)
- Swampert (not Deoxys, not Blaziken... we need a water-based quadruped in Brawl
maaan!)
- Lucario (everyone goes on about him and he just seems like the best choice for the
fourth generation)

Six... hmm. Some may argue that's a bit to much but I personally don't. Sakurai has
already established the Mario, Zelda, Kirby and Pokemon franchises as the key
franchises in Brawl, with Metroid and Starfox close behind. I think these six
franchises will have a significant increase in their representatives. Let's have a look
at the first four, shall we:

Mario (NB: incl. all sub-franchises):
- Mario
- Luigi
- Wario
- Princess Peach
- Yoshi
- Bowser
- Bowser Jr. / Shadow Mario
- Donkey Kong
- Diddy Kong
- Paper Mario

That's ten (not including Bowser Jr.'s transformation). Melee had seven. That's three
more characters which isn't that much really...

Zelda:
- Link
- Zelda
- Ganondorf
- Young Link (Wind Waker form, y'know the rest)
- Midna & Wolf Link
- Tingle (or one other... whatever, but I'm in favour of Tingle believe it or not)

Kirby:
- Kirby
- Meta Knight
- King Dedede

Aaaand pokemon we've already been through. Zelda has six characters while in Melee,
Zelda had four characters plus the Sheik transformation. Kirby only had one
repreentative in Melee and thoroughly deserves the two new characters cropping up their
heads! That's a whopping twenty five characters from four series which sounds a bit
"ouch" but I believe full well is likely and will work. Your thoughts on all
this?

I too think a distinction should be drawn between Mario series reps and reps from the spinn-off series. Yoshi, DK and Wario have their own icons, so clearly Sakurai views them as worthy inclusions due to the fact that they star in their own franchises - not becuase they ride Mario's coat tails. Case in point: Wario sports a Wario Ware outfit, rather than his trademark "evil Mario" costume.

Other than that, it's a nice list. Dare to dream, Smile Guy, dare to dream.

The underlying thing while we're talking about Big Boss being one of Snake's costumes is
we're all after some more dynamic costume changes. I think you all know what I mean by
this but I'll explain it anyway.

We need more than just a change of colour in the character's clothes. We need full
costume changes!

Y'hear that Sakurai? Actually, I'm almost 100% sure Sakurai has already incorporated
this into the game as he seems to be making Brawl the massive homage to Nintendo
everybody wanted... c'mon, I mean Assist Trophies and stuff!

One of the best characters changes in Brawl was Peach's colour change so she appeared to
look like Daisy. It can't be that much more effort for the announcer to recognise this
and say in his oh-so-manly voice "DAISY!!!!" rather than "PEACH!!!!" Even if this
wasn't incorporated I still want to see more examples of clever costume changes. We all
think we've seen the back of Doctor Mario but I fully expect one of Mario's costume
changes to don a white lab coat and a stethoscope. Sure, we won't see any physical
differences in attack but it'll be aesthetically pleasing... right? The other great
example is giving Snake a slight change and an eye patch... Whala! Big Boss is
playable!

Of course, the costume changes don't just have to mean new characters. They can also
represent even more homage from the games they're taken from. We could see Link don his
Magic Armour from Twilight Princess. We could see Midna in that white form when she was
oh-so weakened. We could see Captain Falcon weighed down by a couple of hundred massive
medals and so on...

The Captain Falcon one also leads on to the other aspect of character changes. Comedy
effect. We could have Wolf O'Donnell in a tutu, Pikachu wearing a sombrero and a
poncho, Donkey Kong wearing an "I Love MARIO" t-shirt, Bowser with grafitti, the list
can just go on and on.

So, y'know what I say. Bring on the dynamic costumes!

Hmm... that might actually be interesting. Lots of fighting games have elaborate alternate cotumes, so why not Brawl? I say a Louie costume for Olimar is a must.

Hold on, I just want to clear something up because I'm
pretty sure Smile Guy thought I said 'Buy alternate costumes for him, but I had
said that you could buy alternate costumes from him. Like buying the
Magic Armor for Link, or buying Wario's original costume for him instead of it being
already built in. There's a thread on it right here:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=106310&highlight=Costumes

It's a pretty good thread.

Interesting... I'll have to check out that thread...

Finally, I can post! I've been struggling with this accursed
computer for who knows how long so that it would let me log in.

...and now I've forgotten what I wanted to say. Only thing I rememeber, from a couple
days ago, is that I had to thank Wisey for linking to that I am not American video,
because I laughed my *** off at that. Also, I already visited your other thread and
signed the petition.

@JohnKnight: Yeah, that seems to be the most likely pokemon roster. I hate Deoxys with a
burning passion (he's ugly, he's a lame Mewtwo ripoff without all the cool, etc, etc)
and find that an event pokemon which 75% of the pokemon players have never been able to
use and a good percentage don't even know is not deserving of such an honor as a Brawl
spot, but his moveset could be interesting, I guess. 'Course, I think my sig makes it
clear who I'd prefer took that fifth spot, but not happening.

About this suit discussion... I very much agree with the Big Boss (I am not much of a
MGS fan, but from what I have seen, the original seems to be cooler than the clone )
idea, and would like to make a little idea recap for us to start discussing:

-For Ridley, Meta might be more suited for Boss-type (ala Giga Bowser in melee), so,
excluding that one, Ridley X or Corrupted Ridley (from Prime 3) would make for so much
awesome.

-Mewtwo needs his power armor.

-Link I think is obvious. Zora suit and magic armor ftw (magic armor is ugly, but I know
people who do want it in)

-Ike needs to have both his PoR and GoD outfits, one as base outfit and one as
alternate.

-If Megaman is in... well, I'm sure you can think of it yourself. It's not like he
hasn't used half a thousand suits and suit upgrades in his continued adventures (and
sad thing is, I have pretty much every one memorized xD)

-I want an option to have Cellshaded Link with the Minish Cap. I don't care how they do
it, I wanna have a mean, long-beaked hat in my head when I play as Cellshaded Link.

-Samus... well, see Megaman.

-As jimmy said, original Wario costume, without goggles and helmet and all that jazz.

Mmmm, what else... Metaknight has used more than one sword during the series, though
they are all pretty similar
(example,
compare to Brawl Meta's sword). Starfox chars could probably alternate accesories and
even parts of their outfits for those of other games, since they change their looks
with every installment. Dr. Mario is a no-brainer. Mmmm... outta ideas for now. I'll go
to sleep now. Maybe tomorrow I'll be more lucid.

Glad you liked the vid dude, and thanks for signing my petition.

I love all your alt costume ideas - particularily GoD Ike.

Speaking of which, GoD is going rock on every possible level! I seriously can't wait for November.

I actually want to play it even more than Mario Galaxy. Does that make me a bad person?

Well, I was on a roll, and needed a third one. And I'd rather it
not be someone amazingly minor, like Bill Grey.

Nah, Andross is cool. Or, was cool. I think the closest we'll get to him now is Dash (he
joins Falco's new team in Command). Well, some people kind of tired of Andross,
but hm. I didn't like Andrew, he was a freeloader, but he did have a cool voice in
SF64.

The rant is at it's limit.

Andrew is lame, no doubt. Seriously Nintendo, stop trying to come up with original tories for Satrfox games. Just bring back the giant Space Monkey.

What about the Mario Vs. Donkey Kong series?

What about Mario and Sonic at the Olympics? Does that make Sonic a Mario character too?

I know DK is from the same universe, but he's made his own unique mark on gaming. In fact, Mario originally ppeared in Donkey Kong for arcade - so if anything Mario is a supporting character in the DK series.

^^^^ Great points, and I agree (though I'm against Gardevoir
for Brawl, since it has no meaning in the Pokemon universe). But now is time for the
Snake outfits! Yippe!!

1: Main outfit from MGS2: Sons of Liberty/SSBB:
http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/07/ssbb_snake-1.jpg

2.Outfit from MGS1/MGS: The Twin Snakes (Solid is on the right, Liquid the left).
http://www.gametab.com/images/ss/gcn/2321/box-l.jpg

3.Big Bosses' (or Naked Snake as he's known as) MGS3: Snake Eater look.
http://www.maj.com/gallery/JackNapier/MGS/metal-gear-solid-3-snake-eater-20041116024818065.jpg

4.Solid Snake's MGS4: Guns of the Patriots look (he's old).
http://inventorspot.com/files/images/Solid Snake.img_assist_custom.jpg

5.Big Bosses' (or Naked Snake's) Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops look.
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/6c/180px-MPOSnake.jpg

6.Snake's Metal Gear Ac!d 1/2 look.
http://www.armchairempire.com/images/Reviews/psp/metal-gear-acid-2/metal-gear-acid-2-4.jpg

Now for 2 more!

7.Solid Snake's original look in Metal Gear 1/2, wayyy back! I know, random!
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/kid88/Metal_Gear_1.jpg

8.Big Bosses' (Naked Snake) military uniform at the end of MGS3: Snake Eater. Solid
Snake could also use his.
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/5835/firmanacxits21vr.gif

9.Snake in a tuxedo. Get it dirty and he'll mess you up!
http://anotherword.free.fr/pages/mgs3/images/camo/camo_tuxedo.jpg

10.Snake in a Raiden mask. This would be funny! Like in MGS3 if you said I like
MGS2 in the opening (in the Olive Dab outfit thingy), or like the Ocelot officer
uniform, with the hat.
http://metalgear.neoseeker.com/images/uploads/mask_face_paint_mini.jpg

Any thoughts, or other ideas on Snake's possible outfits, lol!

Good ideas, but I'm a little iffy on the Sony exclusive costumes. I know Snakes outfit is based on MGS2, but it's very similar to his Twin Snakes get up. Big Boss is the excepion - since he appeared as the villian in Metal Gear NES.

Here's my list,its somewhat similar to Wiseguy's,critique how
you will.



Mario Series:

1.Mario
2.Luigi
3.Peach
4.Bowser
5.Boswer. Jr(no Shadpw Mario)
6.Paper Mario(replacement for Doc Mario)

Yoshi series
7.Yoshi(duh!)

Wario Series:
8.Wario

Donkey Kong series:
9.Donkey Kong
10.Diddy Kong

LOZ series:
11.Link
12.Zelda
13.Ganondorf
14.WW Young Link

Pokemon series:

15.Pikachu
16.Jigglypuff
17.Mewtwo
18.Deoxys

Star Fox Series:
19.Fox
20/21/22.Falco/Krystal/Wolf(I'd like to see at least three or four SF characters,in some
combo of these guys)

Metroid Series:
23.Samus/Zamus
24.Zamus(Zamus can separate or transformation,I don't care)
25.Ridley

Kirby Series:

26.Kirby
27.Meta Knight
28.King Dedede

F-Zero:
29.Captain Falcon

Earthbound:
30.Ness(I don't really like him,but I think the original 12 is here to stay)

Fire Emblem:

31.Marth
32.Roy

Third-party:

33.Sonic
34.Snake
35.Simon Belmont


Other:
36.pit
37.The ice Climbers
38.Mr.Game and Watch
39.Balloon Fighter
40.Mii
41.Mr.Ressetti(Thhe only way AC character that don't piss me off to end besides K.K.
Slider)
42.Captain Olimar
43.ROB
44.Laughing Dog

That is a mix of what I think will happen/who I want in. So,how did I do?

Marth and Roy - but no Ike? Unacceptable, I'm afraid. I also think Midna is a strong contender. And maybe you should narrow down your Retro selection a bit...

Paper Mario? HECK YEAH! He would rock, I say. If a sixth Mario rep makes it, I hope it's him.

In the interests of fairness, you should probably stay within the arbitrary 40 character limit so it is easiy to compare with the rest of the suggested character lists...

Oh well. 5/10. I'll bump it up if you can narrow it down to the 40 caracter limit.

Paper Mario? PAPER MARIO?! Whaaaat? How? WHY?

(This isn't directed at you, Chibirobo; it's a general criticism. Just to make that
clear, hahah).

I do NOT for a moment understand why people opt for Paper Mario over other perfectly
eligible Mario candidates: Toad, Waluigi and Birdo are three that come to mind right
off the bat. Heck, you could even include Kamek on that list, and I'm not including
Geno or Mallow because of the third-party controversy. How ANYONE could opt for
another incarnation of Mario over another character is beyond me. It's not just my
Toad fanboy-ism speaking here. Why WWLink or YLink? You could just as easily make
room for Midna, Skull Kid, Sheik (separately), Happy Mask Salesman...the possibilities
are nearly endless. I know some of you value clones because they give "more
characters" and because they "take up less space".

1) Were they to include PM, he would probably be less of a clone and have a moveset more
focused on his dimension-shifting.
2) Another Mario is just as boring as another Link (Young or WW). Both franchises have
such rich casts of characters that to take the bland route and include yet another
version of the hero is just insipid. What about variety?

I think that the idea of "clones" were a nice gesture, but some characters (Ganondorf
especially) were done an injustice by their respective inclusions. Young Link, Doc and
Pichu were all silly inclusions and I'm looking forward to their collective absence in
Brawl. Ganondorf needs his own original moveset, as does Falco (or at least more
differentiation). Roy can bugger off for all I care.

Slightly off-topic ranting aside, "remixes" of existing characters (YLink, WWLink, Doc,
PM, Pichu, Raichu, whatever) have no place in the next game. It was a shame that they
took up the places more unique characters in Melee; I can only hope that the same thing
doesn't happen with Brawl.

Paper Mario owns all other Mario characters - even Mario. He rocks, plain and simple. Likely? Maybe not, but who would have guessed tht we would see Doc in Melee?

WW Link is seaparate matter. He is a completely different person than Link and he represents all Young Links (whch accounts for just about every Zelda game).

Well here's mine

Mario series
1 Mario
2 Luigi
3 Peach
4 Bowser
5 Bowser Jr. /Shadow Mario
6 Toad

Yoshi series
7 Yoshi

Wario series
8 Wario

Star Fox series
9 Fox
10 Krystal
11 Fox

Pokemon series
12 Pikachu
13 Mewtwo or Deoxys(either one I don't care)
14 Lucario

Zelda series
15 Link
16 Zelda
17 Ganondorf
18 Vaati or Skull Kid(perferably Vaati)
19 Wolf Link and Midna
20 Wind Waker Link

Fire Emblem series
21 Marth
22 Ike
23 Lyn
24 Hector

Kirby series
25 Kirby
26 King DeDeDe
27 Metaknight

DK series
28 DK
29 Diddy and Dixie

F Zero series
30 Captain Falcon
31 Black Shadow

Metroid Prime series
32 Samus
33 Zamus
34 Ridley

Animal Crossing
35 Mr Resetti

Earthbound series
36 Ness or Lucas I don't care

Pikmin series
37 Captain Olimar

Retro
38 Pit
39 Balloon Fighter
40 Geno( I know Mario series but I consider him retro)

Other
41 Mii
42 Sonic
43 Snake

Critique if you like.

Where to start...

BJ and Shadow Mario technically count as two characters. Just saying...

6 reps for Mario and Zelda - but 3 for Pokemon? I'd be fine with that, but it would probably cause an uprising?

Diddy/Dixie? Isn't Diddy tough enough to take on Pikachu without his girlfriend? One word: jetpack, peanut pistols, orange bombs, and super guitar. Sorry, was that more than one?

Black Shadow? He sucks, dude. I really, really hate that character. Besides, no Goroh means no second F-Zero rep.

-1 for paper mario. what were you thinking?
-1 for 3 third parties. sakurai said max was 2
-2 for laughing dog and ressetti. animal crossing isn't getting a playable rep, and the
laughing dog, i don't need to elaborate.

6/10
ok, needs improvment

I give SR93'S rating a 2/10 for dising Paper Mario.

sorry for double posting, but i just had to add, i couldn't
agree more. try to argue that logic wiseguy.

Uh... okay.

....


I've got nothing.

Well obviously you either haven't played WW, or are ill informed. WW Link slashes
diffrently from all the other Links, has completely diffrent items, and has
originality. Plus WW Link is the star of two important games, has a original sword
fighting style, and has a completely original design. And how is Toad more important
then that, he's ionly played minor rolls. Major characters minor series>Minor
characters major series.

In fact, Toad is as important as Koopas, Goombas in the Mario series, and has only .1%
chacne of appearing in Brawl. O, and Bowser Jr. is the most likely Mario newcomer, for
sure. He plays the main villian in the best selling DS game (NEW Super Mario Bros.),
and in the #2 best selling GC game (Super Mario Sunshine). Check the WW Link thread for
my WW Link moveset, and I had a Brawl roster a few pages back that was good IMO (then
again I made it).

I agree on all counts. WW Link and BJ are shoeins, in my view.

Fox:
Wolf- Pleases fans of the Wolf without adding another clone
Adventures Fox- The game might have sucked, but Fox's duds were SWEET!
Assault Fox- The spacy, pilot-like suit

Luigi:
Mr. L- The evil Luigi setup from SPM, just not alll papery
Waluigi- Might be a bit of a stretch (No pun intended) But where else would he go?

Samus:
Dark Samus- We all saw it coming.

Dude, Adventures did not suck! It's one of the best games on the Cube.

Mr. L would be unbelievably awesome! I can't stand playing as Luigi, but that cotume would leave me no choice but to main him

for some reason seeing dr. wright as an AT makes me think
that Stanley is a shoe in for AT

he's old and only recognizable by hard core gamers
He represents the dk arcade series without taking too much insight from them

I really had to think about who Stanley was, then I remembered his trophy.

A Stanley AT makes sense. I could see it happening, for sure.

By tomorrow, I'm willing to bet that Sakurai will adress
the whole Animal Crossing problem he's put himself in by Monday.

You lose, I'm afraid. Unless there is a subliminal message in the Starfox music saying: ".....Resetti ....... is ....... in ......... Brawl ........."

Midna solo or with Wolf Link is probably going to happen, and
aeris' reasons weren't that good, I'm sorry. If you doubt WW Link's awsomeness, then
here' my moveset for him that I made yesterday!

^^^^ Now how is that not a good moveset=??? Who wouldn't be satified with that moveset
for any character, much less Wind Waker Link! Wind Waker Link for BRAWL!

@ DonkeySmash
Stanely and Donkey Kong Junior as AT ftw!

Great moveset, says I.

I'm sorry, Paper Mario is more important than
Toad,Waluigi,Birdo,and Daisy. He may be a different version of a character,but at least
he's had his own game,the others you mentioned are just bit players(Okay,Toad is fairly
major,but not as much as PM) Besides,PM wuold have a much better moveset than those
guys,anyway.

100% agreed. If not for Bowser Jr., he would be on my list for sure.

Just as a message to all, if this game is going to be the awesomeness that we all wnt it
to be then we need to stop thinking in a Melee mindset. If you think that it's too
difrent from what Melee was than its probably whats going to happen, because Sakurai is
saying that Brawl's getting a new 'flavor' and I think that keeping clones and crap is a
bad idea, if you want to do a spin attack, or a laser shot, or a fortress, THAN USE THE
CHARACTER THAT HAS THAT MOVE! If you're going to waste a character space, at least make
it an interesting and unique character that people will remember as a main, not as a
clone of their main.

But, I rant. (And I'm not the first.) but, to cap it all up, stop thining inside the
box. Exit your comfort zone and you'll find that the grass is greener on the other
side.

I don't see any of the clones returning from Brawl (unless you count Luigi) but I think we could expect a few new clones. WW Link, for example brings a completely unique flavor to the roster. The Black Knight is another possibility.

I think what's really funny is that you talk about how "completely
original" WWLink is, but post a special moveset that is nearly identical to Link's own
with a few twists. That, my friend, is the "remix" that I'm talking about. Why go for
something slightly different when you could have something totally different? I'm not
even talking something from the same franchise at this point. Who would you rather
see: WWLink or Little Mac? Mike Jones? Skapon? Captain Olimar? I think the latter
four characters all have much more to offer in terms of originality and fun when
compared to WWLink. His "unique" sword style is overshadowed by the fact that we
really don't need such an abundance of sword characters. Smash =/= Soul Calibur (both
series, however, are wonderful in their own respective ways).

Keep in mind, clones require a fraction of the time to program. Would you rather see WW LInk, Black Knight and Wolf (assuming there is no time to include a unique moveset fo him) or would you rather see a single unique character?

Here is where I believe that our greatest dichotomy lies: you value quantity, while I
value originality. By that, I don't mean to say that we each value one exclusively and
not the other; instead, I think that we each place more emphasis on our respective
preferences. I don't like the clones because I think that having original characters
make the game more fun. I don't need 8 versions of Mario or 6 different Links. Heck,
I'm even on the fence about two Samuses. I appreciate the fact that clones were
included so more characters could appear. I only wish that the characters would have
been more varied and not just aesthetically altered and slightly different from their
original counterparts.

Balance is the key. 6 Links is overkill, but two (TP Link and WW Link) would be perfect since they contrast each other nicely.

It hurts my soul to see that Fierce Deity wasn't even
worth mentioning in Wiseguy's predictions. Ah well, I guess he's too obscure...

*pouts for all of two seconds before getting distracted by pie...sweet delecious
pie.*

Hey, I'm waiting for the Twilight Princess sequel set in Termania where TP Link and the character formerally known as The Hero of Time (aka: Fierce Diety Link) square off in the ultimate showdown. Expect to see Fierce Diety in SSB4.

Not to get off topic on what you other guys are talking about,
but Wiseguy what is your opinion on Mario & Sonic at the Olymic Games? When you hear the
title, what 1st pops in your head?

Actually, my impression is that thi bodes poorly for Sonic in Brawl.

Imagine, if you will, the President of Sega calling Sakurai arounf March of this year

Sega Prez: Yo Sakurai. We've heard alot about this Smash thing and we think Sonic ould be perfect in Brawl.

Sakurai: Uhhh... where were you six months ago whn we finalized the character roster? It's too late, I'm sorry.

SP: WWWHHHHAAAATTT?!?!?!? But... but....

S: Dude, the fans have been on my case since SSB64 about that stupid rodent. I've called your office repeatedly, and you people didn't get back to me in time. Tough cookies.

SP: *WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

S: Oh, quit your bawlin. I'll make some calls... maybe we can make a new Mario/Sonic fighting game or something....

SP: *Sniff...* Really? AWESOME! But it has to be about the Olympic games. Nothing is cooler than Mario and Sonic at the Olympics!

S: RRRRIIIIIIGGGGHHHHTTTTTT.....

- He said there will probably be two more on top of Snake. There might be much
less or there might be much more than that. I'm probably going to get a little bit
flamed by this but I wouldn't be surprised if there are 5 or even 6. *closes eyes,
ready to be killed*
- You're taking off a point because he put a unique character (Laughing Dog) that
you personally dislike. Hmm... Sakurai himself said he would like to put in
unusual characters. I personally expect Laughing Dog to be an AT, but I wouldn't take
off a point because they think differently to me.
- And how do you know Animal Crossing isn't getting a playable rep? The odds are stacked
in AC's favour because of the whole sign next to the stage and Ressetti and Tom Nook
were the two most popular characters anyway.

/rant-ish

You are right about 3rd parties. Sakurai said he imagined that they might include 1-2 more, he didin't say anything definitive.

 

[Numa Dude]

no Goroh means no second F-Zero rep.

I am just sick and tired of this stupid rumor. So many people think this withought even thinking about it for one minute. Did it ever occur to anybody that they made Goro an assist trophy because he is virtually unimportant storyline wise. He's never actually done anything to affect the story, all he is is falcons rival and one of the original four. You want to know what I think? I think that they will make Falcon and Pico the playable reps in brawl because they are the two members of the original four who matter most storyline wise and they will make Goro and Dr. Stewart assist trophies because they are the two members of the original four who are unimportant storyline wise. This way all of the original four get in brawl without taking up as much space.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

@ beta prime: If you want to protest Wolfs disinclusion and that Brawl needs more villians, then debate it here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=108451

 

[Masque]

Paper Mario owns all other Mario characters - even Mario. He rocks, plain and simple. Likely? Maybe not, but who would have guessed that we would see Doc in Melee?

Meh. Don't get me wrong: I love the Paper Mario series, even though I think the first is still my favorite. I just think that the Mario series has other characters that deserve some attention aside from another version of Mario.

WW Link is separate matter. He is a completely different person than Link and he represents all Young Links (which accounts for just about every Zelda game).

My real objection is to WWLink as an uninspired Link clone. If they want to include him, whatever. I just don't want it to be YLink with a different look. He has enough to choose from, so be original.

WW Link and BJ are shoeins, in my view.

I acknowledge this fact, although I would much prefer Midna and Toad in their respective places. C'est la vie.

Keep in mind, clones require a fraction of the time to program. Would you rather see WW LInk, Black Knight and Wolf (assuming there is no time to include a unique moveset fo him) or would you rather see a single unique character?

Considering that I have no particular attachment to any of those characters (even though I love WW), I'd rather see someone like Little Mac or Mike Jones in their stead. Just me? Maybe.

I'll be sure to sign your petition, by the way.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

I just have to say: Why have clones when you can have original characters? Surely 'the Studio' thought of this earlier and decided to make the characters first and the stages second (There is an over abundant amount of three platform stages). Simple. This will be the Best. Cloneless. Game. EVER.

 

[Chibirobo]

-1 for paper mario. what were you thinking?
-1 for 3 third parties. sakurai said max was 2
-2 for laughing dog and ressetti. animal crossing isn't getting a playable rep, and the laughing dog, i don't need to elaborate.

6/10
ok, needs improvment

Look at my earlier response to the PM hating.

Why isn't AC getting a character?(This weird for me because this is the only AC character I actually like)

Also,what's wrong with the Laughing Dog? I'll great because of three reasons:

1.He's the perfect retro and WTF character all in one

2.He could have a very unique moveset.

3.You KNOW you want to smack him around a bit!

Marth and Roy - but no Ike? Unacceptable, I'm afraid. I also think Midna is a strong contender. And maybe you should narrow down your Retro selection a bit...

Paper Mario? HECK YEAH! He would rock, I say. If a sixth Mario rep makes it, I hope it's him.

In the interests of fairness, you should probably stay within the arbitrary 40 character limit so it is easiy to compare with the rest of the suggested character lists...

Oh well. 5/10. I'll bump it up if you can narrow it down to the 40 caracter limit..

I only didn't put Ike because him and Marth are very similar(with the armor and the blue hair) so they would get confused with each other,but I suppose Ike was a better shot than Roy,so.....

Here's my updated list:


Mario Series:

1.Mario
2.Luigi
3.Peach
4.Bowser
5.Boswer. Jr(no Shadow Mario)
6.Paper Mario(replacement for Doc Mario)

Yoshi series
7.Yoshi(duh!)

Wario Series:
8.Wario

Donkey Kong series:
9.Donkey Kong
10.Diddy Kong

LOZ series:
11.Link
12.Zelda
13.Ganondorf
14.WW Young Link or Midna

Pokemon series:

15.Pikachu
16.Jigglypuff
17.Mewtwo
18.Deoxys

Star Fox Series:
19.Fox
20/21/22.Falco/Krystal/Wolf(I'd like to see at least three or four SF characters,in some combo of these guys)

Metroid Series:
23.Samus/Zamus
24.Zamus(Zamus can separate or transformation,I don't care)
25.Ridley

Kirby Series:

26.Kirby
27.Meta Knight
28.King Dedede

F-Zero:
29.Captain Falcon

Earthbound:
30.Ness(I don't really like him,but I think the original 12 is here to stay)

Fire Emblem:

31.Marth
32.Ike

Third-party:

33.Sonic
34.Snake


Other
35.pit
36.The Ice Climbers
37.Mii
38.Mr.Ressetti(The only AC character that doesn't piss me off to end besides K.K. Slider)
39.Captain Olimar
40.Laughing Dog

I'm sad I had to remove Mr.Game and Watch because he was my favorite character in Brawl,but I have a feeling is greatness shall only be witnessed once.

Also, here's a couple issues: I would like to address:

If you had to choose between Midna or WW link,who would it be? I mean,now that I think about it I'm not sure which I would choose,what do you guys like?

Also,why do so many people want Dixie and Diddy as a double team? That would ruin Diddy,in my opinion. The double team thing should be Ice Climbers ONLY,why does everyone want those two together?

 

[Masque]

If you had to choose between Midna or WW link,who would it be? I mean,now that I think about it I'm not sure which I would choose,what do you guys like?

Also,why do so many people want Dixie and Diddy as a double team? That would ruin Diddy,in my opinion. The double team thing should be Ice Climbers ONLY,why does everyone want those two together?

Midna FTW. Always and forever. Playing as her would be so much more fun and refreshing than WW Link.

I'd much rather see Diddy go it alone than team up with Dixie as far as Brawl is concerned.

And as much as I love the Laughing Dog, he's AT fodder, not PC. Replace him with Little Mac, Skapon or Mike Jones for extra bonus points.

 

[Chibirobo]

And as much as I love the Laughing Dog, he's AT fodder, not PC. Replace him with Little Mac, Skapon or Mike Jones for extra bonus points.

You know what you're right. Laughing Dog should probably be the AT version of goldeen just so that furry ******* can once again piss players off.