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Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

Joka

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New York
Say, I've been hearing a "faint" rumor about Namco's Klonoa being in Brawl. Think you can check that out?

I found a link to it:
CLICK HERE

Go to the part that says Clos about Noah.
 
Joined
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hey wise i like the new list, my only problem with it is takimura. I don't think that he has the same popularity as other japan only characters such as claus, and various fe characters that i have no idea about. Plus isn't he a retro character to? Thats a bit to obscure for me, and old japan only character.
 

Qbuilderz

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Joined
Oct 30, 2007
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OLIMAR FTW! he really deserves it, imo. I will be shocked if olimar wont make it, i bet alot of olimar haters will ALSO be shocked if he doesn't make it, i mean he has TWO of the best games on Game Cube and hopefull a 3 coming to the wii! but that part is ot, so back on topic, great list, and people stop making puppies die and accept the fact olimar rocks XD
 

Corax The Cold

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wow dude you are so one sided and really hateful of opposers, especially when it comes to Sheik and Windwaker
 

DreamFiend633

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Exactly! Or like I said for my idea, she draws on their face with a marker (Like she does in the show) and it does some crazy thing to them like damaging them and.....making them look completely ridiculous. xD
I'm not sure if Jigglypuff can learn uproar. I like the marker idea, but I feel like it's too much from the series, but they really don't give much credit to the series. And I'm not sure how to say this, but it feels like it would be too hard, too much work for such a small think to put the marker move into the game. I don't know, that's just what I think. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if it will be revealed on Saturday or at the game's Japanese release what it will be. It's gotta have something to do with her voice though.
 

rg56

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i think there's a Martha Stewart joke in there somewhere

this stuff's funny
 

powerchord89

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Jun 19, 2007
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i think 2b looks pretty accurate, although i think lucario has a pretty god shot too. Im a long time geno fan, so im praying for him. Despite having never heard of claus i think hed be awesome, so hes in my prayers too.
 

Got Blood?

Smash Lord
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Great lists with intelligent reasoning.Something you don't see too much of anymore on the boards..
 

AIM0001

Smash Lord
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What the hell no K. Rool? HELL NO TO WW LINK. Besides that pretty good final predictions.
 

Numa Dude

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America's peni.... I mean Florida
While I still think that some series deserve more playable reps than others, I wouldn't say my list floods the roster with characters from one of two franachises. In fact, much of the roster is made up of characters from new franchises like Takamaru, Issac & Olimar.

Looking at it differently, let's say a character's series of origin didn't matter at all. Let's judge the characters based solely on their own merits. By this standard, your boy K. Rool looks even less likely because he isn't a terribly unique addition in either his personality or his potential moveset. Comparing him to characters like Claus, Bowser Jr. and Midna he doesn't strike me as a very interestin PC.
Have you ever played a DK game? K.Rool has incredible moveset potential. Check the K.Rool thread if you don't believe me. Also since K.Rool is the main villain his importance would get him in long before his uniqueness would come to play.

1) Once again, the key word in that sentence is "Only". As in, he'll include popular characters - just not ONLY popular characters. That's a big difference from saying that popularity doesn't matter at all. Also, "doesn't get me excited" isn't the same as "I'll, never, ever do that." Just sayin.
You take it one way I take it another.

2) There is a difference between a character like Pico, who is cool and underapreciated, and Black Shadow who no one (at all) likes even a little. This is becuase there is no redeaming features about the character. He is just plain lame. LAME!
The only reason people dislike BS is the same reason people dislike Tingle and K.Rool. It's easy to make fun of him. Whatever you say about him he is an important villain and is very likely to be included.
 

Ferro De Lupe

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I don't like:
Midna's positioning - Seriously? Why did she get tacked on like a post-it note? She should be in all three versions, not just the best case one.
B.J. - See Midna.

Outside of those two things, I like your revisions...
 

Dark Sonic

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I agree that Fire Emblem deserves two reps. That's why I included Miciaiah in my (not implausible) 40 character roster. I do, however, think that some characters are more worthy. Just as Diddy Kong or Wario should have (idealy) gotten in Melee over Roy, so too should characters like Ridley and Olimar get in over Marth/Miciaiah.
The problem is that Micaiah (stop mispelling her name) shouldn't get in over Marth. Marth is much more important to the FE series and if they got a second rep, Marth would get in regardless of what Takamaru's status is. Heck, he could even be a Marth clone for all I care, but there's no way that he would be included over Marth.


I think this is where we disagree. While I agree that it would suck, I would rank it as slightly less unthinkable than removing Ganondorf or including Fox solo. If this were a wish list, you can bet I would include a second Fire Emblem PC in my first list, but I was trying (perhaps unsucessfully) to consider how Sakurai would balance the demands of his audience in a worst-case scenario of 36 characters.
Did you not read the part about FE having 11 games in total, 5 of which are international. Marth is possibly the most popular FE character world wide, if not just in Japan. He's also the most reoccuring FE lord. Why should Micaiah get in over him?


I agree there is a big difference. With Lucas, they were clearly creating an obvious Ness replacement. With Ike, they were clearly trying something different. But I wouldn't say it's
preposterous to say that he was originally based on Marth, just unfounded (at the moment). It's a theory without evidence, not an impossibility.
Unfounded is an understatement. It's been proven wrong! Ike only has 2 moves in common with Marth, both of which are generic swordsmen moves (a counter for down B and a sword swipe for a fair, and a slow one at that.). We know Ike's entire moveset by now, and it would be more likely that Ike's moveset was based off of Link's rather than Marth's. If a characters moves were to be based off another character's, then they'd share the same animations on the majority of there moves and just have different stats. This is not the case with Marth and Ike.

I was looking at it from the perspective of pure gameplay, but you do raise a valid point. Removing Marth would disappoint some fans. However, one could argue that the inclusion of Takamaru would be a nice conselation prize for Japanese gamers (perhaps he's not quite as popular as Marth in the country, but he still has his fans it seems) and that there are fans of Radiant Dawn (both in Japan and abroad) who would prefer Miciaiah as a second rep.
First, what would American Fans get? A character from a 20 year old dead series that nobody knows. It's not like FE because FE is a continuing series that had 6 games in it and was going international.

Second, Micaiah's game isn't selling so well and she has few fans even in her own game. Marth on the other hand has two very well recieved FE games and is more popular world wide. Sure, there would be some fans that would prefer Micaiah, but the majority of fans wouldn't even consider her if it meant getting rid of Marth.

But, obviously, the popularity front is the clear downside to this theory. The upside, I would argue, is a more diverse roster of fighters.
Diversity over character importance? And then you put an unimportant character from the same series?


If you beleive that Marth is the best possible FE rep, then you're entirely right.
Those are your words, not mine.

I completely agree
However, the fact is that not everyone believes that. Before Ike's confirmation, there was a Ike vs. Marth poll thread on Smashboards which showed Ike to be the clearly more popular choice. It all comes down to where Sakurai and his crew stand on the issue.
And english poll in which one of the characters is not international. That poll would definately be the other way around in Japan. And they have access to both characters.

Well, there is a difference. Fire Emblem has one representative for sure, while the Pikmin series still needs a playable rep. Also, Olimar is the only character I can think of who is so unique, he's guanteed to make Brawl a better game.
See Numa Dude's post.

2) A decades old Japanese only swordfighter, eh? Sounds quite a bit like Marth to me. Noone outside Japan knew who he was at the time -but his inclusion in Melee resulted in Fire Emblem getting brought to our shores. How awesome wuld it be if Takamaru's inclusion in Brawl resulted in a new Nintendo character franchise?
It would be more awesome if his series was actually continuing. His series is dead and I don't think we'll be getting any new games, even if he were included in Brawl.

As for Pit and Meta being agile swordsmen - I would agree with that. Sort of. They are more of their own subgroup: flying swordsman (great spped, great recovery, weak knockback). I think some players would still prefer a pure swordfighter who isn't slower than Bowser.
Told you we needed Marth.


In fact, much of the roster is made up of characters from new franchises like Takamaru.
Who is a dead character from a dead series.

Looking at it differently, let's say a character's series of origin didn't matter at all. Let's judge the characters based solely on their own merits.
Which Marth has quite a lot of.
 

The Dragon

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Its a MONTAGE!!!!
i have to agree with sonic wave, Marth's worth to Nintendo far out weighs Takamaru's.. Marth is much more likely to enter brawl than Tak.. Sonic wave hit every point as to why that i could think of. as for cptn olimar, well i never liked him but if he gets in cool? i guess
 

Al Calnos

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I like this final roster of yours Wiseguy. I could pick out a few things I disagree with, but then I'd be nitpicky and the game will be out soon anyways :laugh:

Anyways, we shall see how right you are come next month...

Also, when Sheik is confirmed to be not in the game, I will give you his/her/its/potato's head on a silver platter in the form of a crudely made photoshop as a gift ;)
 

Copperpot

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In your cereal, stealin' your prizes!
Agreed. Wise, you compared Takamaru's situation to Marth's, which are ultimately two very different scenarios.

Takamaru: Starred in his own game on the NES, during the 80's. He has not appeared in another game since. His series has not been the subject of any public talks regarding a revival, remake, or re-release.

Marth: Starred in two games, one on the NES and the other on the SNES, during the 90's. He appeared in Melee, drawing Western attention to the Fire Emblem series. Also, he's starring in a remake of his Fire Emblem games, titled Fire Emblem DS.

You can't really paint the same picture here. Marth just has a lot, lot more going for him. I understand that Takamaru would be a complete WTF character, along the lines of Game & Watch in Melee, but at least most gamers knew who Game & Watch was at the time.

When Game & Watch was discovered in Melee, everyone was thinking 'WTF?' Meaning, 'What the f***' is Game & Watch doing in Melee?

If Takamaru was discovered in Melee, everyone would be thinking 'WTF?' Meaning, 'Who the f***' is that?
 

Al Calnos

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You can't really paint the same picture here. Marth just has a lot, lot more going for him. I understand that Takamaru would be a complete WTF character, along the lines of Game & Watch in Melee, but at least most gamers knew who Game & Watch was at the time.

When Game & Watch was discovered in Melee, everyone was thinking 'WTF?' Meaning, 'What the f***' is Game & Watch doing in Melee?

If Takamaru was discovered in Melee, everyone would be thinking 'WTF?' Meaning, 'Who the f***' is that?
Actually, I didn't know who Game & Watch was. In fact I lost the first fight with him because I was so shocked and wondering what the hell I was fighting. I was also using Mewtwo, so that might have helped with the losing. :laugh:
 

Devastlian

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Rodeo, California.
That might not matter to some people. I loved unlocking Marth and Roy (and playing as Samus, Capt. Falcon, and Ness) and reading all of the trophies and learning about them all. I'd rather have awesome characters I've never seen before rather than mediocre characters I know about...but not awesome characters I know about...unless the characters I don't know about are more awesome.

Anyway, you get the idea. I'm not saying Marth is mediocre; just saying in general.
 

Tsuki

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Noo my beloved Midna T_T

Under WW Link you Still Wrote "Both Probable" even though Midnas gone :<
The Isaac-Moveset-Link doesnt work by the way >.<
 

Copperpot

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In your cereal, stealin' your prizes!
Well, obviously, we all want to get our hands on the most awesome characters possible. The issue lies in the fact that many people share different opinions as far as who is and who isn't. Many others mistake a character's "awesome-ness" for popularity. The rest either don't care or, at least, not enough to mention that they'd rather have someone (or something) else.

And while it might not matter to some people, let's not forget why Marth and Roy were even in Melee. Their inclusion in Smash Bros means a lot to the Western fans of Fire Emblem. What would be the purpose of Takamaru?
 

Kirby knight

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Well, obviously, we all want to get our hands on the most awesome characters possible. The issue lies in the fact that many people share different opinions as far as who is and who isn't. Many others mistake a character's "awesome-ness" for popularity. The rest either don't care or, at least, not enough to mention that they'd rather have someone (or something) else.
It's all subjective, there will never be a 100% agreement on which character should get into Brawl. Even when the final roster is revealed, you can bet that people will be displeased if there favorite character doesn't make it.

Hope for the best, but expect the worst.

-Knight
 

Devastlian

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Well, obviously, we all want to get our hands on the most awesome characters possible. The issue lies in the fact that many people share different opinions as far as who is and who isn't. Many others mistake a character's "awesome-ness" for popularity. The rest either don't care or, at least, not enough to mention that they'd rather have someone (or something) else.

And while it might not matter to some people, let's not forget why Marth and Roy were even in Melee. Their inclusion in Smash Bros means a lot to the Western fans of Fire Emblem. What would be the purpose of Takamaru?
I dunno. He might make a cameo in the next Zelda or something if enough people like him enough or maybe put him in a game that focuses on sword combat for the Wii...or maybe put his game on the VC. He is pretty much only going to invoke a nostalgic response from people in Japan or those that imported or played the ROM, the people that want the Famicom Four to be complete. There're a quite a few people that like samurai that would be attracted to just that. He could have a moveset that some people just end up liking etc. But most of those reasons are probably superficial. I definitely don't think he could replace Marth but he does have enough to get in over lesser characters...maybe.
 

Al Calnos

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And while it might not matter to some people, let's not forget why Marth and Roy were even in Melee. Their inclusion in Smash Bros means a lot to the Western fans of Fire Emblem. What would be the purpose of Takamaru?
Now I don't support Takamaru in any way, shape, or form, so I don't care if he's in. But, the "purpose" could be seen as an attempt to revitalize an old franchise. There are rumors of a Kid Icarus sequel to be in the works... unless IGN forged this interview and never got in trouble for it.
IGN said:
IGNcube: Will you make Kid Icarus for Revolution?

Shigeru Miyamoto: Well, I'm actually working really closely right now with the director of the [original] game. Now, whether or not when we get the Revolution all set up and everything is finalized, well who knows? That might be one of those characters where everybody says, "Hey, with the way our console is designed, that would be a perfect match." My question to you is, if we made this game would you buy it?

IGNcube: Absolutely.

Shigeru Miyamoto: Well, we obviously can't ignore that. Okay, we'll get the Eggplant Wizard coming back.
Granted, theres no word of an "Ice Climbers 2" yet, and they still haven't ported the old Fire Emblem games to the VC, so who knows...
 

Tyrannotaur

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I still don't like alot of things about your predictions. No Falco = Phailure. I can understand not having Wolf..but Falco should come back. I can live with out King K. Rool, even though I'd like to have more villains. Takamura or w/e his name is is meh. I have no idea who he is..but if he is that likely to be in the game I'll give him a try. Anything is better than that Sukopon thing. No offense to his fans. I can see you are a Metroid Prime fan, and yet you have no Dark Samus? Ridley is cool. What about Rayman? Raving Rabbids did pretty well, so well they made a sequel.

I don't see why you hate the Pokémon series so much. It never did anything to you. Even with the two alternative lists you fail to add any more than 4 characters. As one of Nintendo's best selling series, I do think it deserves at least 5. Adding Lucario/Blaziken/other Pokémon, would give your list alot more appeal for me. I still say PT is one character and should only count for one slot, no matter how many movesets he has.

You can't please everyone. Nice list otherwise.
Thank you for taking out Dr.K from Brain age. Horrible Idea, IMO.

I like the Heroes Reference.

Wild RIDLEY Appeared!
Go! Squirtle!
Squirtle used ICE BEAM!
IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!
Wild RIDLEY Fainted!
 

Ginger9001

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Trust me, I'm not right behind you.
i just had a thought: im guessing that sakauri has heard of the japanese magizine that is supposed to reveal the roster on saturday. So wouldn't it be awsome if sakauri revealed the roster a day earlier on the dojo?
Perhaps he will, perhaps he will. That would be nice. Seeing a new "Notice" update giving us the starting roster. :)
 

Al Calnos

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Will this do?http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/tiara/fe11/

Marth's game is going global.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the DS remake, which I'll no doubt pick up. But still, it would be kinda nice if they took the time to translate and port the original Fire Emblem. They've done this with some other once Japan-only games (Sin & Punishment for the N64 comes to mind), so I don't see why not. They could also port the original Mother while they're at it...

ADDED: Well congratulations Wiseguy, you predicted Waluigi as an AT. How do you feel?
 

Ferro De Lupe

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Awwww man!

And I was so wanting a Waluigi/Wario vs Mario/Luigi match.

Oh well. I'll get over it.

I never truly expected them to playable, but I did support them.

Still, kinda upseting to see Waluigi go. He had so much potential.
 

WarxePB

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Still, kinda upseting to see Waluigi go. He had so much potential.
Well, other than a bunch of random moves from the party games, not really. He can make his eyes shiny, swim through invisible water, and do the crotch chop, but what good is that in Brawl? IMO, I want Nintendo to flesh him out a bit more, then they can include him in SSB4.
 

Kirby knight

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I think I would have thrown up of Waluigi was playable (Toad who isn't playable had alot more merits to be included then Waluigi).

-Knight
 

Elysium

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Wise, your list rocks for a couple reasons.
A.) Most of the sub captions for the pictures.
B.) Sheiks Picture
C.) krystal

Reaons your list phails.... .... .... (Close your eyes)




He'll get you for not putting him in, just look into those eyes of pure evil.
 

Erimir

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Thoughts on the new list:

1. I don't think Zelda has been confirmed to have a transformation move, so while I agree that Sheik is likely, it's not as if she's confirmed to be in. And I'm hoping that Sheik, if in, will be the result of a Final Smash, or something. The Pokemon Trainer/Zero-Suit Samus way of implementing multiple-characters-in-one seems a lot better.

2. Falco and Marth seem, to me, to have better chances than some of the characters in your second part.

3. Which brings me to Pac-Man and Bomberman. They are iconic, but as you said, their moves don't add much. I hope they're not in over other characters. Maybe if we have 45+ characters.

4. Bowser Jr and Claus don't seem as likely to me. For some reason Bowser Jr is really popular, but I think that the aforementioned Falco and Marth are more likely, as well as K Rool, since they have longer histories and Bowser Jr is adding to a series that has tons of representation (in the main, plus spin offs of Yoshi and Wario). Claus, well, he has the "cool" factor, but I find it more doubtful that Mother would get a second rep (a second Japan-only rep, at that) than for the other characters I've mentioned to be included.

5. Why not at least mention the possibility of the mixing of the two options in your second part? After all, Simon certainly has a unique moveset as well, considering he could be a character who uses a whip for standard attacks.
 

Arteen

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I hope that Zelda will still be able to transform to Sheik at will. It's not like Sakurai is going to let Sheik be so much more powerful than Zelda this time around. At the very least, Sheik could be forced to have PT-esque stamina, meaning that a player will have to switch back to Zelda every once in a while (Zelda wouldn't have stamina, of course). I think that that's probably the best solution. The Samus/Zamus final smash transformation seems like it will be very annoying.

Wise, your list rocks for a couple reasons.
A.) Most of the sub captions for the pictures.
B.) Sheiks Picture
C.) krystal
Captain Falcon's picture is pretty awesome too.

Also, today's update was pretty good. I love how Waluigi uses his tennis racket, considering he first appeared in a tennis game. It's unfortunate for Stafy fans that he's deconfirmed, but his Japan-only status was probably the main reason he didn't make the cut. Maybe Nintendo will internationalize the series anyway.

The last two updates have been better than usual. It seems that Sakurai has finished his "game manual" updates for now.
 

PrettyGoodYear

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Panama, Panama, Central America...
4. Bowser Jr and Claus don't seem as likely to me. For some reason Bowser Jr is really popular, but I think that the aforementioned Falco and Marth are more likely, as well as K Rool, since they have longer histories and Bowser Jr is adding to a series that has tons of representation (in the main, plus spin offs of Yoshi and Wario). Claus, well, he has the "cool" factor, but I find it more doubtful that Mother would get a second rep (a second Japan-only rep, at that) than for the other characters I've mentioned to be included..
Fire Emblem got 2 reps in Melee. I think MOTHER and F-Zero deserve a second rep both for being since the Smash series began. Claus is Lucas's brother. Sakurai helped make MOTHER 3 and more likely than not, knows a lot about the character. Claus also had as much mentions as Lucas.
 
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