Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[Wiseguy]

Gentlemen, today is a great day! We just got the best Dojo update ever: the revelation that Brawl with support Wii mote, Wii mote & Nunchuck, Classic controller and Gamecube controller - with rumble! My take:

Wii mote: sure, it looks less than ideal - but for gamers pressed for cash, it's good cheap way to play Brawl without buying four more controllers.

Wii mote & Nunchuck: maybe this means that Johnknight1 will lose his $20 bet, but I'm pretty excited to see what Sakurai has come up with for this control scheme. Ultimately however, I suspect this will probably wind up the way of the C-stick in that it will only be used by less skill players.

Classic Controller: haven't got my hands on this one yet, but it's tiny size and lack of rumble make me think that this will be far inferior to...

GAMECUBE CONTROLLER: Rejoice! We'll be able to play Smash Bros with the Gamecube controller, the way it is MEANT to be played - complete with rumble. Unfortunately, all my old Gamecube controllers' control sticks are beggining to vear to the left or right after years of abuse. Time to hunt for some new Gamecube controllers...

But wait, there's more! I've also got a juicy update: I've made some changes to my character list. let me know what you think.

Also, I command you all you check out Stryk's awesome new comic:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=105757

your list is down to earth and realistic, but nerfing fox? booooooo booooooo

Thanks for the compliment.

Sorry to ruin your day, but I really think Fox is due for a nerfing. Just as Kirby and Ness were dumbed down in their transition to Melee, so also will the high tier characters be cut down to size (if they aren't cut...). Don't worry, given Fox's popularity, I don't think he'll be made as useless as Kirby was - he'll just be brought down to the same level as Mario and Link.

I agree with most but the one im hoping is true is Geno I give your list 9/10 because i dont like the earth bound additions (never heard of ness before SSB for 64) and i think the only pokemon it needs are pikachu and jiggilypuff

P.S Good list

Thank you for that great rating!

Though I would hardly call myself a fan of either series, I think the Pokemon and Earthbound fans out there deserve to have a objectivly fair number of representatives. My goal in making this list was to make a logical prediction that would make the greatest number gamers happy (or at least content), not just the ones who share my likes and dislikes.

You're probably right, which makes Drascin a sad panda in snow (despite we being 35ºC around here). Lady Lyndis > Ike, IMO, but the Japanese's dislike for the GBA games makes her imposible. Dammit, Sakurai, the Japanese already shape the list enough, throw us europeans a bone, the GBA games were bestsellers around here! She would also be nice to have if we're talking movesets. Ike would take care of the "Hulk smash!" type of swordsman, while Lyn would be fast and light. Meanwhile the Black Knight, while awesome, would be very clony, only super-heavy (though I'd say, it's not BK who should be a clone of Ike, but Ike who is a clone of BK ). I really don't know Micaiah, but the way you're talking, looks like she would also be an interesting and unique moveset, which is a plus. And given past experience, I'd say she has more of a chance than BK if they don't have to resort to making the second FE character a clone, as she would basically take Roy's post in the "promotion the next game" shtick .

Ike is probably my favorite lord, but your milage may vary.

It is a shame that we probably won't see the GBA games represented, but as long as we don't see any Japanese-only characters I can live with it. BK and Miciaiah are both great choices, so I winded up including them both in today's update.

Prepare yourselves, mortals, for a god walks amongst ye.

WE'RE NOT WORTHY, WER'RE NOT WORTHY!!! *Cowers in fear*

Plug my thread will you? Well, I'll show you: next time I post somewhere else, I'll let EVERYONE know how cool this one is.

That'll learn ye.

Thanks a bunch - Err... I mean, Drat!

I disagree. I'm a very vocal DKC detractor, and from my recent experiences with DKC2 on the VC, I can say with confidence that my opinions are not without merit.

Maybe it's just me, but a good platforming game needs more than good graphics, with a side of trial=and-error pathfinding to justify said graphics.

And while I'm on the subject, someone (Johnknight1?) mentioned earlier that DKC innovated by introducing dual-character gameplay. That's not exactly true. Lost Vikings, a really old Blizzard game, not only came out before any of the DKC games, but was also much better. So there.

I respect the DKC games, and I have no issues with their gameplay. I just don't think they should be credited with inventing the "run-to-the-right-jump-jump-on-reptiles-collect-shiny-objects" genre.

I think the one on fire is the FE castle, and the one with all the greek statues and such is...well my best guess is Medusa's Underworld (Kid Icarus), but I'm probably in the wrong on that one. Anyway, if there are two whole FE stages, we'll definitely be seeing at least 3 FE characters.

Good point. And wouldn't you know it, I just included a third FE character to my list! As they say, great minds think alike.

I don't think so. Those games are very, very niche, and the resources it'd take to provide a good translation of them outweigh the payoff. Think about it: FE1. from what I've played of it, is terribly backwards compared to even FE7. The only people who'd download it are really, really stupid nerds (like me!). It's always possible, but Ninty's not shooting themselves in the foot by not translating them.

FE fans are a very niche crowd, but also very loyal. There's a few hundred thousan of us who will prurchase anything with "Fire Emblem" in the name. I suspect that the old FE games would be among the most downloaded games if they were localized.

That brings up a good question: do you think Snake'd make it into the next Smash? It's a bit forward-thinking, but it's an interesting thing to think about. Is he good enough to be a staple of the franchise, or will he go the way of supposed "one time" characters like G&W or Ice Climbers?

That's an excellent question. Since MGS4 is supposed to be Snake's final game and the last instalment in the Metal Gear franchise, he may be cut for a more current Konami rep when SSB4 comes out. Then a again, a simple remake of the original Metal Gear game on Wii, DS or even the Virtual console could put him over the top. Personally, I'd love to see him made a permanent memeber of the roster, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Genndy's stuff is always good stuff. Shame he's not in the business anymore. Also, Samurai Jack is awesome.

Very, very true. I heard that they tossed around the idea of a Saumerai Jack movie at some point to wrap up the story, but it never took off. Come on Genndy, you can't leave Jack stranded in the future forver!

That's a bit too Snake Eater for a Nintendo game. But a tux would be neat.

Maybe, but I can dream...

Wait...we're not?

I was trying to shield you from the terrible truth that you are only the crazy side of my personality that wants Andross and Jumpman in Brawl. But since you already know, I guess it's all good.

Well...who says? I don't see any rulebook lying around.

You don't think that Smash should be limited to videogame characters?

If they can make up a set of moves for a racecar driver, they can make up a body for a primary villain.

That's kind of a leap. It's one thing to include a character in his standard form and give him all new abilities, its another to change his look entirely. It would be like including Young Ganondorf as a young Gerado boy. This form of the character never actually appeared, but was only alluded to the the game.

Look it up.

I'll do that.

Also, the GCN sucked it up in the RPG depot. Outside of FE, there's Skies of Arcadia, Tales of Symphonia, and Baten Kaitos...and that's about it. A PSX (they're like 10$ nowadays) would do you good.

I've played all the ones you mentioned, save Arcadia which I can't seem to find. Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door is also phenominal.

Are PSX games playable on PS2? I've convinced one of my Wii-less PS2 friends to trade consoles with me for the summer games draught, so I'll finally have a chance to broaden my RPG horizons.

But half of TP was just one big dungeon crawl! The pacing was worse than WW's!

Anyway, I basically disagree with all that, but I won't go any farther than that, since this is not the time NOR the place.

When the dugeons are of the such high quality, it's all good. Seroiusly, TP has the best dungeons in any adventure game to date. The Goron Mines, Yeti castle and Hyrule castle all raise the standard of what a dungeon can be and all the others maintain a consistent level of awesomeness - though I didn't care for the Water dungeon and the Sky Temple seemed a tad uninspired.

In terms of pacing, WW seems tighter because it's only a third as long! It's like comparing a short story to War and Peace.

Hey, Pokemon ain't that easy. At least Ruby wasn't. Diamond was a cakewalk though...

If you're looking for a real challenge, go pick up Kingdom hearts 2 and play it on Proud Mode. Alternatively, Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga has the hardest boss of all time.

I'll put those games on my PS2 to-do list.

24: The Game

If you're a fan of 24, you should check it out. From the reviews I've read, the gameplay is so-so but the story is as mind-blowingly awesome as an entire season of show. If you aren't a fan of the series, I urge you on the strongest possible terms to run to your nearest Blockbuster this very moment and rent the entire 1st season on DVD. Trust me, you'll thank me later.

TP's Wii controls really aren't all that. The game was made with the GCN in mind, and it shows. Aiming's better, and swordplay is more visceral (at the expense of accuracy), but it wasn't up there in terms of LOZ or Ocarina improvements.

Maybe TP's controls weren't as revoltionary as some other games in the series, but I still find the Wii-mote to be vastly superior to all other previous Zelda control schemes. Moving the controller to swing your sword and aiming at the screen to shoot arrows made the entire experience far more immersive and fresh, and the deciding factor in my decision to rank it as my favorite Zelda.

A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, the Zelda Discussion Thread was called the "Final Zelda Character Thread". But look at it now!

Good point.

Bah! Wander had more personality and depth in his pinky finger than TP Link has in his entire body! That 'barren, boring wasteland' served to make the game that much more gripping: it really is just you and your horse, in a forbidden and cursed land ruled by terrible demons, out to save the one you love, despite the commands of your elders. SotC is the prime example of "games as art".

Fine, but Link isn't the hero of TP - Midna is. And I'd stack her up against Wander any day of the week as far as personality is concerned.

The world in SotC is certainly beutiful to look at - for the first few hours. But after a while, it becomes a chore to make the long treks between epic boss battles in a world where there isn't really anything to see or do.

In Twilight Priness, there is not only a greater variety of enviornments to explore, but there are characters to interact with and enemies to fight. In Collosus, the world is more realistic in detail and more vast in scope, but the most exciting thing you'll see in your journey to the next boss is a rock or a tree.

To summarize, Collusus has TP beat as far as boss battles are concerned (as well as pretty much every game ever) - but the bosses in TP are nothing to sneaze at, in spite of being pretty easy to beat. Also, Bosses are only aspect of TP's greatness (immersive combat, brilliant dungeons, memorable characters, greater value, etc) so that's why I rank it as a better game overall.

I think you give the Zelda series a bit too much credit. Touch screen controls are nothing new, and the whole "connectivity" thing would've been awesome, but the way it was lamed by costs just killed any impact it might've had. Plus, FSA wasn't even that good.

There's a really good article up at thewiire that you really should read. Link below!

http://thewiire.com/features/198/1/A_Link_to_the_Past_A_Link_for_the_Future

Phantom Hourglass isn't the first game to use the touch screen, but it is the first adventure game to use the touch screen exclusively - and also in new and brilliant ways such as the ability to draw maps.

As for FSA, I called it innovative - not great. They are two different things. Thanks for the interesting article, though.

Well you'd better play Okami soon: the thing sunk at market faster than the Titanic, and in a few years, it'll be up there with Radiant Silvergun in terms of rarity. Also: BAH!

It's right at the top of my list for when I borrow my fiend's PS2 - along with 24: The Game, FFXII and MGS2. Any other suggestions?

"Stay golden Pony...stay golden..."

Anyone? Anyone get it?

Nope.

I think that'd be neat, if only because a "normal" person in Smash (Phoenix Wright, you say?) would be a nice change of pace.

Wright is cool and all, but Commander Kahn is infinitely more awesome.

I won't get too far into this debate, since I'm not a real Kirby buff, but if Dedede is a clone, all they'd really have to do is change a few A moves (use the hammer!) then make his B move have more knockback and DMG upon spitting.

Good point. Good to see there's at least SOMEONE who isn't gunning for me on that front (even if he is only my split personality...)

I'm sure we'll see Goldeneye in time (Reggie's dead-set on that one), but PD is a Rare property, so...no. Also, Clover isn't "gone" per se. The staff is still with Capcom just no longer collected into one sigular body. Although Kamiya, Inaba and Mikami (Clover's head honchos) have left Capcom and have since formed the independent studio Seeds.

Diddy Kong Racing is a Rare property also, and we just saw that on the DS. I wouldn't rule out PD on VC, but it will most likely also appear on XBOX arcade.

...

Wow. Thats the first time I've seen someone besides me compliment Jungle Beat on these boards. Everyone else seems to be suych a huge DKC fan that they completely overlook how awesome the bongos are. Kudos 2 U.

I tried the game out at my firend's house. She isn't what you would call a gamer, but she got ahold of her brother's copy of the game and proceeded to play it like I pro. I gave it a try, and was impressed by its originality - but walked away with an emabressingly low score and very sore hands (i guess I goy pretty into it). But yeah, it's a shame that game didn't get more recagnition. Did you know that the same team is currently making Mario Galaxy?

ZOMG the main character doesn't look like a total **** this time around. Also, it looks like Skies of Arcadia if it had a child with FFXII. And that's a goos thing.

Agreed. It almost looks like a REAL Final Fantasy, and not a half hearted spin off. I have high hopes for this one.

I'll take that as a maybe.

Yeah, if NST was given the Corruption engine to work on a WiFi component with, I'd explode (with happy!).

Agreed.

I'd also like to point out that WiFi in Brawl has yet to be confirmed...so there's still a chance that we'll have to all break out those torches and pitchforks and swim to Japan on the backs of giant sea turtles in the near future. Keep those torces loaded.

What a cooincidence, My family happens to own a giant sea turtle farm! Sounds like fate to me.

You hear that Sakurai? You'd better include online, or face the consequences! [/QUOTE]

Same here. Ocarina popped my adventuring cherry, but Majora was just so dang involving. And it has the best sidequest evar: getting the Couple's Mask.

True, though the Save the Cows sidequest was also pretty great.

Cow missiles for the win, man!

Wow, that was weird. Why are we both talking about cows?

Anyway, Cow missles own! I think I'll go play a few dozen more hours terrorizing the hapless civilians in that game.

Anyway, if I mispelled something or mis-quoted someone...blame the guy who invented trackballs.

Seriously, what was that guy thinking?

Beats me.

The very first game is indeed a while.

So, am I going senile or am I right about the boxing thing?

The hammer is a staple of his character. Like Marth's sword, Bowser's shell and Metaknight's cape. It needs to be seen on screen every moment you see him to get the message across of just how ****ing important that hammer is. Dx3 loves that hammer so much I would not be surprised if he set it upside down and sat on it for pleasure. So why would his main weapon not be used for his As? Kirby's hammer sucks, unless you alter everything to be better it won't work. And then that's just the rolling hammer in the air and the sidewards hammer on the ground, no uppercut hammer.

I'n not sure he has to have his hammer out ALL the time, personally. Like Mendez said, just give a few more Hammer attacks to replace the moves he can't copy from kirby and voila'.

You also need the sucking in time to have a set few seconds of time, allow Dx3 to still float (unlike Kirby) as well as numerous other things. It's not that simple, especially if you want a balanced Dx3, it'd be a bigger job than re-animating everything for a new moveset. So what's the point?

There's more too it that what I can grasp certainly, but cloning Kirby's jumps and sucking sounds like a good place to start. But again, I'm no programer.

Wisey, Wisey, Wisey... The modification needed would be so drastic. I can't see him not having his hammer for As. I can't see him not having a heavier flying technique to Kirby. I can't see him using the stone move of Kirby. I can't see him using the sword, the B> hammer for anything if his Hammer is A... Very messy. You'd have a bigger, complicated model using a small blob's moveset.

Smashy, Smashy, Smashy... I could definitely see Kirby's jumping, sucking and hammer attacks working for Dx3. His up-b could be original (like Luigi's green rocket) and his down-b would involve him slamming down to earth Bowser style, which a close enough approximation of Kirby's down-b.

They could - but shouldn't. Samus only shoots in her games, Dx3 basically wrestles and hits with his hammer. They had to give Samus kicks and punches. Dx3 doesn't require any further creativeness on the Smash team's side to fill in slots for moves, he has enough!

They don't neccessarily HAVE to give him none-hammer A attacks, but it is an option on the table - which maked my theory a possibility.

Only if it saves time. Luigi is so much like Mario in appearance and in the games, especially before Luigi's Mansion, it makes sense for them to be similar. Ganondorf was a time problem, and will have a unique moveset in 'Brawl. Anyway, it's not like Ganondorf was that popular for 'Melee. Dx3 is the most popular for 'Brawl.

Funny you should bring up Luigi's mansion... just as Lugi COULD have recieved an all new moveset with a vaccume cleaner, but was instead included as a Mario clone to save time - so also could Dx3 be amde a luigifed Kirby clone to save time.

Yes, the ICs suck and will be removed. But the similarities with Kirby are all flawed. Creating a new moveset would be simpler and make more sense.

I hate to keep bringing it up, but the similarities between CF and ganondorf are even more flawed. Sure, it was a different set of circumstances, but it IS possible that the same will occur with Dx3.

His arms do. He's taller, so Kirby's jabbing punches will go over some enemies.

Or they could just modify Kirby's A's as neccessary - like they did with Luigi's.

The more popular characters are, the more likely Sakurai will get on them. He'll tick characters off the list as he goes along. Now, his own series, with the most requested character for 'Brawl... Will Dx3 be at the end of the list? It doesn't apply to him, Dx3 is going to either already be made or almost be made by this point.

Good point, but like I said - Sakurai isn't self serving enough that he would put yet another of his characters above all others, the way I see it. Characters as similar as Dx3 may very well be pushed to back of the list to be added in later months as clones. Then again, I'm just speculating.

Thing with clones is there usually is no-one already in that is similar enough to allow a clone, so randomness ensues. And you have problems with any clones that aren't pretty much the same in their games to the person they're a clone of. Case in point; Ganondorf. Cloned from a completely random character because no-one suits him and he isn't as popular as Zelda, Sheik or Young Link to get top of the list. Dx3 is as popular and more as Metaknight or Kirby, is top of the list and no-one really suits him except for the few moves he shares with Kirby, which are altered extremely.

I'm pretty sure Ganondorf was more popular than Sheik prior to Melee, but I get your drift.

But the mess with melee's clones (Ganondorf in particular) is precisely why I think they will carefully plan out their clones ahead of time to get them right.

Well King DeDeDe also wouldn't be a Kirby clone the same way as Diddy wouldn't be a clone from DK. Still it's pretty different, since Kirby and DeDeDe actually share some common moves but Diddy and DK absolutely don't. Maybe Diddy's aerial moves could be similair to DK's, but not more than that.

King DeDeDe and Kirby both can fly and have hammers, ohh and DeDeDe can suck enemies up aswell but he wouldn't be a clone from Kirby atleast. Sorta the same with Diddy but in a lesser extant, DeDeDe can't turn into a Stone or do a Final Cutter since he can't copy abilities. And his flying could easly be his Up B move.

No way in heck is Diddy going to be a clone. He is far more unique than Dx3, who actually shares some moves in common with Kirby. In DK64, Diddy was about as unique from Donkey as you can get.

This may have been said already, I didn't read everyone's comments, but most people seem to be sure that clones will return. I don't mean specific clones, I mean clones in general. I think that Brawl will have spent enough time in development to not have to use clones. Remember, the only reason clones were in Melee was because they were under pressure to finish the game. They've had plenty of time now, I don't think any characters will be clones. Would it upset anybody if there were no clones? Not me...

Also, I started a post about a create-a-character mode in Brawl a long time ago and it got shot down. Where were all you people who are supporting this Mii idea when I posted? You do know that it's pretty much the same thing... I think it would be great, but I think it should be like a separate roster. Like Miis can't fight regular characters, they can only fight other Miis. It makes sense to use them, but I'd be dissappointed if there were limited move-sets to choose from (which will almost certainly happen). It would be great if they did a create a fighter thing and included some sort of mode that allowed you to create your own moves. But if that happened, it obviously wouldn't remain balanced, which is why I think Miis should only fight Miis.

Like Mendez said, clones allow more characters totoal to be included. Since Brawl's development squedule is under time constraints, the inclusion of clones is likely inevitable.

My idea for clones is a bit different from your create-a-character idea. I see all the Miis as having a moveset with moves from Wii Sports, Wii Play and Brain Age Academy. The only thing customizable would be their faces, which are already on the Wii's harddrive in the Mii Channel.

I'm with Smash Daddy on this one. Banishing the Miis to their own roster would take out the fun of Pitting your own creations against your favorite Nintendo characters.

 

[Stryks]

Seriously, if wiseguy is gonna be remembered by anything, its gonna be by his long (but with good opinions) posts

And I completely agree on the Mii part...

also thanx for posting a link to my comic wise, I owe u my 1st child XD

 

[Wiseguy]

Seriously, if wiseguy is gonna be remembered by anything, its gonna be by his long (but with good opinions) posts

And I completely agree on the Mii part...

also thanx for posting a link to my comic wise, I owe u my 1st child XD

Thanks Stryks, but you don't have to give me Strykman. He would probably just throw me out a window.

 

[Stryks]

Hahaha avoid saying Madness and ull be fine XD

Anyway I agree on a lot of stuff on ur predictions, but dark samus a samus clone? shame on you, SHAME!

 

[Wiseguy]

Hahaha avoid saying Madness and ull be fine XD

Anyway I agree on a lot of stuff on ur predictions, but dark samus a samus clone? shame on you, SHAME!

Hey, I like Dark Samus as much as the next guy. Prime 2 is easily one of my favorite games of all time. But given Metroid's lack of popularity in Japan (he wasn't even nominated on Sakurai's Japanese poll. Foolish Japanese...), I'm just not sure if Sakurai will deam him worthy of the time consuming process of designing a completly unique moveset.

To summarize: DS definitely has the potential for a unique moveset, and that's what I would prefer - but I just think a cloned DS is a tad more likely. Either way, I'll be hapy if he gets in.

 

[Vali]

What do Wiseguy and Jigglypuff have in common?

Spoiler

They're both reliant on their "Wall of Pain"s

. I kid, I kid...kinda...

Wiseguy I did see you upholding the Olimar love against some guy in the Olimar thread which was awesome :D. We seriously need to keep that thread bumped up.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Well, I looked through the first page again. When I passed Lucario and Dexoys I had to stop because at first glance it looked like they were holding hands (well, hand and tentacle). It gave me a brief WTF moment.

But yay for Micaiah getting an upgrade. If that was the FE lineup (yes, on the chance that Marth doesn't return) I wouldn't be disappointed (I'd rather they all be different, but as long as I get to play as Ike and Micaiah I'd be satisfied).

As far as possible clone characters go, the only one I disagree with is DeDeDe (possible maybe, but I think his chances of being original are quite high). The rest all make sense in a way (even K.Rool in a way, though all of Bowsers shell moves will have to be changed). Still think you may be overdoing it with the clones, but as long as they are more of Luigi's standards as opposed to Dr.Mario's, then I'd be fine with it.

And Vali, I don't think Wiseguy will appreciate you comparing him to the puff.

 

[Wiseguy]

What do Wiseguy and Jigglypuff have in common?

Spoiler

They're both reliant on their "Wall of Pain"s

. I kid, I kid...kinda...

Wiseguy I did see you upholding the Olimar love against some guy in the Olimar thread which was awesome :D. We seriously need to keep that thread bumped up.

They don't call me Wiseguy the Verbose for nothing.

Good point Vali. I really should post on the Olimar thread more often. It's not fair for you to shoulder the full burden of spreading the Olimar love...

@LukeFonFabre: I've been looking for an excuse to squeeze Miciaiah in somehow, and with Twili Midna gone, there was an opening for a female magic user. Athough BK is still my favorite, Miciaiah would still be a great addition to the roster.

 

[Phaazoid]

@wiseguy
i don't think you quoted chiefmendez enough. as for fire emblem, my favorite was the GBA one with Erica and Ephraim, and all the others sucked until path of radiance. but, i guess i mainly agree with your list, and if where the one in brawl, it would be a pretty good game.

6/10

-1 for midna/wolflink
-3 for cutting game@watch, mewtwo, and falco

 

[LukeFonFabre]

You just want to spam Monty Python quotes while playing BK, don't you Wiseguy?

 

[Wiseguy]

@wiseguy
i don't think you quoted chiefmendez enough. as for fire emblem, my favorite was the GBA one with Erica and Ephraim, and all the others sucked until path of radiance. but, i guess i mainly agree with your list, and if where the one in brawl, it would be a pretty good game.

6/10

-1 for midna/wolflink
-3 for cutting game@watch, mewtwo, and falco

Thanks for the input, samusules93. Samus does, indeed rule.

I get why you might be upset that I cut characters you liked, but what's wrong with Midna/Wolf Link?

You just want to spam Monty Python quotes while playing BK, don't you Wiseguy?

Black Knight: 'Tis but a scratch.
Arthur: A scratch? Your arm's off!
Black Knight: No, it isn't.
Arthur: Well, what's that then?
Black Knight: I've had worse.
Arthur: You liar!
Black Knight: Come on you pansy!

 

[Vali]

They don't call me Wiseguy the Verbose for nothing.

Good point Vali. I really should post on the Olimar thread more often. It's not fair for you to shoulder the full burden of spreading the Olimar love...

Or Wiseguy the Pinkpuff-ball for that matter. I was really tempted to make my own Olimar support thread tooting more his personality, a bit of expansion of the games, obviously with my moveset and arguments/counter-arguments for Olimar being in and out of Brawl (respectively) but I figured it'd just get locked. That and that I'm proud of never having made a topic (which a lot of people relatively new to SWF don't seem to be able to do). But seriously, I'd love a regularly bumped Olimar topic which I could update the first post to something useful for people new to Olimar to look at rather than having to seive through the pages to find discussions and movesets.

Black Knight quotes? If only Brawl has voice comms, then it'd be supreme. Although to be honest I'd prefer to ditch the Black Knight quotes and not have to listen to a bunch of people saying stuff that would make me want to stab them in the face.

Edit: Wiseguy I'll answer that question over in the ol' Pikmin topic . That and I did revive the Captain Olimar thread from it's 2-3 month dormancy and got the link in the character thread fixed (since the link was broken). There was a serious lack of Olimar love going around.

 

[Wiseguy]

Or Wiseguy the Pinkpuff-ball for that matter. I was really tempted to make my own Olimar support thread tooting more his personality, a bit of expansion of the games, obviously with my moveset and arguments/counter-arguments for Olimar being in and out of Brawl (respectively) but I figured it'd just get locked. That and that I'm proud of never having made a topic (which a lot of people relatively new to SWF don't seem to be able to do). But seriously, I'd love a regularly bumped Olimar topic which I could update the first post to something useful for people new to Olimar to look at rather than having to seive through the pages to find discussions and movesets.

Black Knight quotes? If only Brawl has voice comms, then it'd be supreme. Although to be honest I'd prefer to ditch the Black Knight quotes and not have to listen to a bunch of people saying stuff that would make me want to stab them in the face.

Yeah, the major flaw with Smash Boards is that mnat of the character threads were originally posted by people who no longer visit the site. I think we should be able to make new threads if the old ones lie dormant long enough.

Say, what do you think about the possibility of including Louie as an Olimar clone? I recently put him in my runnerup list, and I was wondering what other Pikmin fans thought.

As for BK quotes, they NEVER get old. EVER!

 

[Devastlian]

Well...I think Captain Olimar's chances aren't the best and putting Louie in as a clone would just be stretching it.

Also, I could try and revive my Loto thread. Roffle roffle roffle.

 

[YosterDragon]

As for BK quotes, they NEVER get old. EVER!

So many varied opinions on this very lengthy, wall of text ridden thread. And yet here I think is one statement we can all agree on

And speaking of character specific threads, the Red thread is practically a warzone. People get emotional about their Pokemans I guess

 

[Phaazoid]

i love the holy grail, those references made me laugh.
i am not against the idea of midna as a character, though she isn't the top on my list, (ridley is), but midna riding wolf link is a bad idea in my opinion. first of all, that means 2 links. second of all, that isn't a character, it is 2 characters. and lastly, you don't have midna on your back much in tp. only when a wolf in the twighlight realm.
if it was just midna, though i don't like the idea (thats just me) i would have given 7/10

 

[Wiseguy]

Well...I think Captain Olimar's chances aren't the best and putting Louie in as a clone would just be stretching it.

Also, I could try and revive my Loto thread. Roffle roffle roffle.

Yeah, two Pikmin characters might be pushing it. Still, a guy can dream, right?

I'm almost afraid to ask, but who's Loto?

So many varied opinions on this very lengthy, wall of text ridden thread. And yet here I think is one statement we can all agree on

And speaking of character specific threads, the Red thread is practically a warzone. People get emotional about their Pokemans I guess

So true. Monty Mython is a timeless classic.

It doesn't surprise me that you earned the wrath of the legions of Poke-freaks. I did warn you that the idea of Red would make them upset...

Still, don't worry. I know better than anyone that being the last sane man in the world doesn't make you crazy. (Or does it?...)

i love the holy grail, those references made me laugh.

At least we agree on SOMETHING!

i am not against the idea of midna as a character, though she isn't the top on my list, (ridley is), but midna riding wolf link is a bad idea in my opinion.

I used to think the same. Then I read Ferro De Lupe's incredible moveset:

Warning: Spoilers for Twilight Princess. Don't read if you don't want them. This is your only warning.

Midna
(It is a Wolf Link/Midna team, but they will be referred to as Midna by the announcer.)

Stats:

Attack: ***
Average

Attack Speed: ****
Wolves (like foxes) are naturally agile and quick.

Reach: *****
Because of Midna’s hair-extensions (no joke intended), she will have good reach.

Jump: ***
Both of Wolf Link’s jumps combined would equal one of Fox’s second jump (because wolves are not built to jump.) However, Midna brings this up with her teleport abilities. All-in-all, it would be average.

Gravity: ***
Average

Height: ** (and a half.)
Wolf Link is about as tall as Ness, but add in Midna and he’s taller.

Weight: **
Because Midna is so small and light, Wolf Link has all of the weight here.

Wall-Jump: No

Playing Style: You would control Wolf Link for about half of the “A” attacks, all the movement (walking, running, etc.), the first two jumps, and very few air and “B” attacks. Midna would handle some “A” attacks, all/most of the “B” attacks, all/most of the aerial attacks, control the “third jump”, and control the “Super“ attack. Midna uses all handheld and equip items, while Wolf Link uses all throwing items.

Fighter Stance: Wolf Link would stand on all fours (duh) in a “ready to fight”-like pose. While Midna would hold onto Wolf Link with both hands and lower her head. Stand still for a little bit and Midna will look around.

Movement Speed: One notch lower than Fox.

Taunt: Wolf Link sits and looks back at Midna while she yawns in classic Twilight Princess style.

Victory Music: The music from Twilight Princess anytime you defeated a boss/learned a hidden skill.

Victory Poses:
1) Wolf Link jumps around in circles trying to get Midna off of his back (like when she first mounted him.) The picture freezes with Wolf Link’s front paws on the ground, back paws in the air, and Midna hanging on for dear life.
2) Wolf Link howls and then spins (like in TP.)
3) A Moblin is seen on the screen. Suddenly, Wolf Link comes from the side and (easily) vanquishes the Moblin. As the Moblin “poofs”, Wolf Link and Midna turn to face you.
(Open to suggestions)

Icon (face): Triforce (Midna)

Levels:

Stage: Kakariko Village - Unlocked once Midna becomes playable. This level is very similar to Onett. There is no falling on this level. KO is only possible on the left, right, and up. Start with the shrine on one side, put Barnes’ Bomb shop on the other, and add every building against the western cliff side between the two.
You fight on the roofs of the buildings with two gaps. The first gap in between the shrine and the first house, while the second gap is between Barnes’ shop and the last house. These gaps will let you fight on the ground between them. You can also fight on the other side of Barnes’ shop and the shire, but it’s dangerously close to the level edge.
Level Hazard: Every now and then, a Goron will roll by and harm anyone caught in the path (down in the gaps.)

Adventure Mode Level: Twilight Palace - You start at the bottom of the palace and have to fight several Twilight-themed monsters while making it to the top. You can not advance to the next floor of the level until all the monsters in the area are defeated. After about 5-6 floors, you arrive at the top for a 300 stamina battle against Zant. Note: Zant does NOT become playable if defeated. Also, Zant’s life decreases to 150 on Easy, 75 on Very Easy, and increases to 450 on Hard, 600 on Very Hard.

How to Unlock: Defeat Zant in Very Hard difficulty Adventure mode with Link.

Items:
Gale Boomerang - Throwing item. Once thrown, the boomerang releases a small tornado around it. If the boomerang hits anyone, they are engulfed in the tornado, spun around, and thrown into the air [think Hyrule Castle from SSB] (the boomerang then returns to the thrower.) If it doesn’t hit anyone, the boomerang returns. The boomerang can be thrown three times. Can also be used to grab items from a distance and put them at your feet. Unlike Link’s boomerang, it will not return if you don’t catch it.

Oocca - Throwing item. Basically, they are the new Mr. Saturn item.

Shadow Stone - Equip item. Gives the user wolf-like characteristics (tails, ears, fur, etc.) and temporarily increases attack speed (gives them wolf-like agility.) Works in the same way that the Bunnyhood, Super Mushroom, and Metal Box do.
(In retrospect, this item would be tricky to see on Wolf, Krystal, or Fox.)

Alternate Colors:

Inverted - Midna’s white areas become black, and her grey areas become white. Her hair also becomes blue. Wolf Link also becomes white.
Tupic Green - Wolf Link become the same green as his tunic. Midna stays normal.
(Open to suggestions) (Needing someone willing to make images)

Kirby Hat: Kirby equips Midna’s hat and hair, while the remaining exposed area becomes covered in fur. This symbolizes the Midna/Wolf Link team.

Moveset:
Because of Midna’s great reach, all of her hair-hand attacks have extended hit-boxes (like a sword.)

NOTE: * = Taken/Modified from Twilight Princess.

A: Chomps forward once.* No knock back. 2%

A twice: Second chomp.* No knock back. 3%

A three: Quickly turns and tail swipes.* Low knock back. 5%

Dash A: Midna’s places her hair-hand in front of Wolf Link and makes a fist; acting as a battering ram. Decent knock back. 6-7%

Forward Tilt: Wolf Link swipes with his claws. Low knock back. 5-8%

Up Tilt: Wolf Link swipes upward with his claws. No knock back. 6-7%

Down Tilt: Wolf Link tilts his head to a diagonal angle and aims for the ankles (or hands if they’re hanging from the edge) with his teeth/fangs. Low knock back, good for edge-guarding. 6-7%

Forward Smash: Wolf Link leans back and puts all of his weight and strength into his back legs. When released, Wolf Link pounces forward ready to bite anything in his path. Decent knock back. 10-14%

Down Smash: Wolf Link quickly spins around with claws, teeth, and fangs attacking anything in the way.* Decent knock back. 10-12%

Up Smash: Midna moves her hand in an arc above her. As her hand makes the arc, a trail of Twili magic is left behind in the form of an offensive barrier. The barrier does not protect against projectiles, but will harm anyone it comes into contact with. It fades about a second after it’s made. No knock back, stuns opponent and opens for attacking. 10-12%

Aerial A: Wolf Link spins around using his tail as a weapon. Minor knock back. 3-5%

Aerial Forward A: Wolf Link rolls forward while Midna’s hair-hand slaps in a downward arc-path (think DK‘s F-air with Midna‘s hair-hand acting as his fist and Wolf Link acting as his body.) This is a spike. Great (downward) knock back. 10%

Aerial Back A: Midna’s hair-hand swings around and hits behind her. Decent knock back. 6-9%

Aerial Down A: Wolf Link rolls forward slightly and chomps underneath of himself. No knock back. 5-7%

Aerial Up A: Midna swipes both her hands across each other above her head and shoots a small sphere straight up. Little knock back.* 5-7%

Forward Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand, rears back, and then smashes the target into the ground in front of Wolf Link. Low knock back. 7-10%

Back Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand, smashes them against the ground behind her, then smashes them against the ground in front of Wolf Link, and then finally throws them behind her. Decent (backwards) knock back. 4%, then 4%, then 2%

Up Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand, and throws them backwards… catapult style. Good knock back. 2%

Down Throw: Midna grabs the target with her hair-hand and smashes them against the ground. Then Wolf Link attacks using his “finish the poe” maneuver.* No knock back. 13%

B: Dark Energy - A 360 degree sphere of Midna‘s magic surrounds Wolf Link. It is a chargeable attack, but cannot be saved. You will also have restricted movement while charging. While it is charging, any enemies that enter the sphere become highlighted to show that they are targeted. Once “B“ is released (or the attack has been held too long) Wolf Link will perform a near-impossible to dodge chain of quick attacks. The only real way to avoid being hit is to get out of Wolf Link‘s jump range. All highlighted targets will be auto-targeted and attacked (unless they avoid it) with increasing damage per target (I.e. target one takes the least damage while target three takes the most.) If there are no targets highlighted, then Wolf Link does his “Down Smash” with increased lag. In the air (and if used correctly,) this attack can become a nice recovery, but it’s very risky because Wolf Link is stunned until he hit’s the ground if no targets are highlighted. Great knock back regardless of damage, best used in close-quarter combat.* 5%, then 10%, then 15%

Up B: Twili Teleport - This is the only move that keeps Wolf Link’s jumping stat from getting a one star. It works identical to Zelda’s, with some slight modifications. Midna turns herself and Wolf Link into the “twilight squares” and teleports in the direction selected. The big difference between the two is the damage. Zelda‘s causes damage while she is casting the spell. Midna‘s would cause damage after the spell is cast and she is moving. Minor damage is given for each “square” that the target is hit with. No knock back.* 1% per square

Down B: Hair Fist - Midna turns her hair into a giant fist. Then both she and Wolf Link rear back to get some extra momentum. They both then come forward and she pounds the ground in front of her. Getting hit with the fist before it hit’s the ground causes some decent knock back and damage. Getting hit with the fist into the ground causes you to take the full damage, but has no knock back (because you’re being flattened into the ground.) The pounding also creates a small shockwave. The closer you are to the center of the shockwave (without being under the fist) the more damage and knock back you take. Of all of their attacks, this one has the worst lag. Very dangerous attack at upper percentages (60+.) Should only be used when you can guarantee a hit. 20%

Forward B: Hair Spear - Remember how Midna…dispatched of Zant? Pretty much all I need to do to sum it up. She launches a spear made out of her hair at the target causing a nice bit of damage. Good knock back.* 10-15%

Super Smash: Fused Shadow Creature - Midna equips the Fused Shadows and uses the giant spear to “impale” one target for massive damage.* 75%

first of all, that means 2 links. second of all, that isn't a character, it is 2 characters. and lastly, you don't have midna on your back much in tp. only when a wolf in the twighlight realm.
if it was just midna, though i don't like the idea (thats just me) i would have given 7/10

"Two Links"? You mean like Old Link and Young Link in Melee?

"Two Characters"? You mean like the Ice Climbers?

"Only in the Twilight Relm?" Actually, halfway through the game you get the ability to transfrom into the Wolf whenever you want and Midna gains the ability to exist in the light world. You actually wind up playing as the duo also as much as you do Human Link.

Anyway, if you don't like the idea, that's fair. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Any thoughts on a Zelda character who could take their place?

 

[Phaazoid]

i think skull kid could, and shiek should stay, and that is enough. midna is surplus. the moveset is awesom, but i detested the idea of 2 of the same character in a game(which is why i oppose ww link)

 

[Wiseguy]

i think skull kid could, and shiek should stay, and that is enough. midna is surplus. the moveset is awesom, but i detested the idea of 2 of the same character in a game(which is why i oppose ww link)

Sheik over WW Link or Midna? Surely you jest!

I can see your qualms with Wolf Link, since he is just another form of TP link. But WW Link is a separate character altogether - they are as different as Samus and Dark Samus.

How can Sheik return if Zelda appears in her updated Twilight Princess form? Transforming into Sheik is an ability unique to OoT Zelda.

 

[Stryks]

Sheik is gone, she was broken (yes I said she) and is no longer important to the series, Im sorry sheik fans but u'll have to find some skill in brawl (considering u need little skil lto main sheik )

 

[Wiseguy]

Sheik is gone, she was broken (yes I said she) and is no longer important to the series, Im sorry sheik fans but u'll have to find some skill in brawl (considering u need little skil lto main sheik )

A truer statement was never uttered.

 

[petre]

...Transforming into Sheik is an ability unique to OoT Zelda.

proof??? didnt think so. zelda just got smart, thats all.

 

[Devastlian]

I'm almost afraid to ask, but who's Loto?

Ya, the last character on my list from Dragon Quest?

Here's the thread.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

I used to think the same. Then I read Ferro De Lupe's incredible moveset:

[Insert long moveset here.]

Haha! Once again, I recieve the praise I seek for my moveset!
I'm still looking for someone who would be willing to make color alterations in Photoshop (or whatever program you do it in.) *Glances at Stryks*



I should post movesets here more often... The responses are a lot better. Let me see if I can find my Krystal one. I know the moveset is really easy to see thanks to Adventures, but still...

*Flies off to think of more moveset possibilities*

Edit: I need to stop typing in the dark...
*Fixes multipule spelling errors*

 

[Chief Mendez]

Speaking of Movesets...

Andy​

A - A single horizontal wrench chop.
AA - A follow-through chop, reversing the direction of the first attack.
AAA - The finishing blow: a strong overhead chop with both arms behind it.

Side Tilt A - A quick baseball-swing with the wrench.
Up Tilt A - Andy pokes his wrench vertically, looking a bit like Marth's Up Smash.
Down Tilt A - Andy sweeps out ahead of him with both legs.

Side Smash - A 360 degree spin of the wrench, begining as a baseball-swing, but instead of stopping, it keeps going around, hitting on both sides.
Up Smash - Andy plants his wrench on the ground, then vaults on top of it upside down, sending his feet upwards in a sweeping arc.
Down Smash - Andy slams the ground ahead of him with a powerful overhead swing of the wrench.

Nair - Andy's version of the sex kick. His wrench acts as his leg, staying in place and hitting any who make contact with it.
Dair - Another baseball swing, only angled downwards, and the swing goes across the screen's Z-axis, limiting it's range. It makes up for that with speed and power.
Uair - Andy extends his arm and spins his wrench from the center.
Fair - Andy pulls his wrench upwards from below him, (like a reverse Mario spike).
Bair - Andy goes lateral, kicking out with both feet behind him.

Dash Attack - Andy slides a few feet while winding up a baseball-swing with his wrench, then delivers. Great knockback and damage, but heavy lag in the begining offsets it.

Grab - Andy reaches out with his wrench, grabbing his enemy in between the prongs.
Grab Hit - Andy tightens the wrench quickly, dealing a few points of damage.
Running Grab - Andy stretches out to his limit, increasing the grab's range, but lagging it up in the process as he struggles to balance on one foot.

B: Hyper Repair - Andy pumps his fist in the air and recovers 2% damage.
Side B: Beat Down - Andy rushes forwards, flailing his wrench ahead of him for a short distance. Hitboxes directly in front and behind, but not above or below.
Up B: Hyper Upgrade - Andy powers up, boosting himself skywards on a wave of energy. The move does no damage, but it's fast, and during the next 2-3 seconds, all attacks do 1.5x their normal damage.
Down B: Block Rock - Andy whips out a walkie-talkie and calls in an artillery barrage on both sides of himself. Similar to Thunder, only with multiple hits, more range, and less knockback.

See? An Andy moveset can be fun and cool.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Nope.

Good book. Bad reference though.

Wright is cool and all, but Commander Kahn is infinitely more awesome.

Nonsense and poppycock. Everyone knows how awesome Nick is: "Kahn" is more related to Star Trek than a Nintendo game.

Funny you should bring up Luigi's mansion... just as Lugi COULD have recieved an all new moveset with a vaccume cleaner, but was instead included as a Mario clone to save time - so also could Dx3 be amde a luigifed Kirby clone to save time.

Although, Melee only came out a month or two after Luigi's Mansion, so a moveset based on that would have been more than a bit unlikely. On the other hand, Dedede's been around so long (with his moves in tow), that I don't think that factor would affect the contents of his moveset.

Did you know that the same team is currently making Mario Galaxy?

EAD Tokyo man, Nintendo EAD Tokyo. Heck yes.

Diddy Kong Racing is a Rare property also, and we just saw that on the DS. I wouldn't rule out PD on VC, but it will most likely also appear on XBOX arcade.

Except that Ninty owns the DKC characters, and everything else DK related. But Banjo and Conker weren't in DKRDS, because they're owned by Rare, as is Joanna Dark and her franchise. We could see Goldeneye because Rare doesn't own any of that property, but Rare created and holds the rights to every PD game, so unless Microsoft decides to give their competitor a game, it won't be happening.

Maybe TP's controls weren't as revoltionary as some other games in the series, but I still find the Wii-mote to be vastly superior to all other previous Zelda control schemes. Moving the controller to swing your sword and aiming at the screen to shoot arrows made the entire experience far more immersive and fresh, and the deciding factor in my decision to rank it as my favorite Zelda.

The combat's definitely the best in any Zelda, as is the overall control. I'm just saying that it's not as mind-blowing as your first time playing DDR or Canvas Curse.

If you're a fan of 24, you should check it out. From the reviews I've read, the gameplay is so-so but the story is as mind-blowingly awesome as an entire season of show. If you aren't a fan of the series, I urge you on the strongest possible terms to run to your nearest Blockbuster this very moment and rent the entire 1st season on DVD. Trust me, you'll thank me later.

I saw most of the first and second seasons, and while I thought they were good, I'm obviously not as enthusiastic about the show as you are.

I've heard good things about the game though.

The world in SotC is certainly beutiful to look at - for the first few hours. But after a while, it becomes a chore to make the long treks between epic boss battles in a world where there isn't really anything to see or do.

In Twilight Priness, there is not only a greater variety of enviornments to explore, but there are characters to interact with and enemies to fight. In Collosus, the world is more realistic in detail and more vast in scope, but the most exciting thing you'll see in your journey to the next boss is a rock or a tree.

I could argue that SotC more accurately reflects an actual fantasy adventure. Surely Gandalf's rides on Shadowfax weren't constantly interrupted by random plantlife and/or lizardmen.

It's very hard to describe what makes SotC so compelling. On paper, "no music, no enemies, and long travel times" sounds boring, but what makes the difference is what makes Shadow the best adventure game ever: the setting. The land may be desolate, but it's certainly not bland. Every hill you crest yields more landscape to admire, a new goal to reach, or an oddity to investigate. It's made better by the lack of any onscreen displays and a really, really good camera. Wandering through the vast plains of Collossus is as close to art as games have ever gotten. (And for the record, there are a good deal of secrets to discover in SotC's world. Stamina lizards, health buds, rock turtles, hawk clans, and a very secret garden are all there; waiting to be found.)

Compare it to WW: everyone complained about how boring sea travel was. Because it was a flat expanse, with one color (give or take a storm or two)...endlessly. If that water was instead diving valleys, murky lakes and treacherous mountain faces (as in Shadow), there would've been no complaints.

Anyway, I could go on, but I fear I know your response already, and it really pains me to hear such negative things about the game. So let's just agree to disagree on this one, okay?

That's kind of a leap. It's one thing to include a character in his standard form and give him all new abilities, its another to change his look entirely. It would be like including Young Ganondorf as a young Gerado boy. This form of the character never actually appeared, but was only alluded to the the game.

It'd be sort of like that, since we've actually seen Andross...just not all of him. Like I've been saying, it's a technicality, but one I'd like to see ignored.

I've played all the ones you mentioned, save Arcadia which I can't seem to find. Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door is also phenominal.

You're tellin' me. Last time I saw an Arcadia copy was at least a year ago...for 45$...used. Oh well...still have my DC version. Also, I hate every Paper Mario game.

Are PSX games playable on PS2? I've convinced one of my Wii-less PS2 friends to trade consoles with me for the summer games draught, so I'll finally have a chance to broaden my RPG horizons.

Uh, they should be. I'm pretty sure they are, but I'd ask someone else (like Wikipedia, for instance), since I tend to play my PSX games on my PSX, and my PS2 game (Okami) on whichever PS2 is at my house at the moment.

It's right at the top of my list for when I borrow my fiend's PS2 - along with 24: The Game, FFXII and MGS2. Any other suggestions?

Tales of the Abyss is great, and both God of War games are a must (1st before 2nd). If you can find it, I think you'd really enjoy Indigo Prophecy as well.

And of course: Okami, SotC and KH2.

@wiseguy
i don't think you quoted chiefmendez enough.

He...he never does...

/////////////////////////////////////////////

And that's a wrap: I hate you all.

 

[Drascin]

I've read the last three pages at once... my head hurts. There were a few points I wanted to answer to, but cursed if I am going back into that mess . So I'm just going to answer what I remember, and avoid the walls of text since I'm a bit pressed for time:

About the update:

-I'm happy to see you added Micaiah. After the FE discussion here the other day, I did a bit of research on her. Looks interesting, and we don't get nearly enough magic users (and TP Zelda is a sissy who I'm not going to get caught dead using). So I'm expecting Ike and Micaiah now (if I had my way, would be Lyn and BK, but it's not happening).

-Bowserifying K.Rool to add Midna was a good idea. I can see ol' crocky as a clone much more easily than Dedede. It's a pity such an iconic character has to be cloned, but it has to be someone, and better him than Midna.

-The Ouendan cheerleaders, SISSY!?!? *stabs Wiseguy with a rusty spork*. I have played both EBA and Ouendan 2, and let me tell you, the Agents have got nothing on the sheer awesome of Ryuta Ippongi and his squad.

Now for some other things:

-Yes, Wiseguy, the PSX games do work on the PS2, though you need a PSX memory card to go with them, as the PS2 memory doesn't work with them. So get the RPG catalogue and go to town! And yeah, Vagrant Story is really cool. Try it if you can find it. And if you're like me and Vagrant was never published in your country, I can also direct you towards a working emulator and an ISO of the game . Vagrant is like Chrono Trigger: no gamer should be forced to live without having at least tried it. Some PS2 recommendations... apart from what Mendez said, try Disgaea 1 and 2 (most fun SRPGs in the history of EVAR), and maybe some Wild Arms (I haven't played WA 4, but I have heard nothing but praise from those who have played it)

-If BK is in, the first one to crack a "It's only a flesh wound" is going to get a concussion wound to accompany it ¬¬#. Yeah, we all liked Holy Grail, but if Brawl has Internet I'm already going to have to listen to those continuously.

-I'm with Mendez in the Zelda argument. For all of the awesome TP had, WW still felt a fresher experience. I keep saying, WW was brutally underrated. Yeah, it was easy as pie, but so was TP (really, TP may have some of the coolest characters to date, and give plenty of roleplaying epic for us RP buffs, but my 8-year-old cousin can beat the dungeons) and the pacing in WW was just perfectly designed.

-Nice Andy moveset there, Mendez. A bit generic maybe, but certainly workable. What would his final smash be? A bomber run? Though I am still convinced Andy has a snowball's chance in hell to be in Brawl (but who knows. Sakurai likes to thow us curveballs. Anyone here can honestly said they expected the next SSB would star Pit?)

Aaaand gotta go now. I'd answer more, but I should try to look like I'm working or something .

 

[Vali]

A truer statement was never uttered.

I believe if she was replaced with she/he/it/potatoe then your statement stands true.

 

[Wiseguy]

proof??? didnt think so. zelda just got smart, thats all.

Well, the fact that OoT is the only game in which Sheik appears is my only proof, though beyond that it's impossible to prove a negative.

At any rate, I'm thankful that Zelda smartened up and abandoned her alterego as it means that the disgracefully overpowered character in Melee will be axed.

Ya, the last character on my list from Dragon Quest?

Here's the thread.

Doh! How could I forget so quickly? Sorry.

Haha! Once again, I recieve the praise I seek for my moveset!
I'm still looking for someone who would be willing to make color alterations in Photoshop (or whatever program you do it in.) *Glances at Stryks*

I should post movesets here more often... The responses are a lot better. Let me see if I can find my Krystal one. I know the moveset is really easy to see thanks to Adventures, but still...

*Flies off to think of more moveset possibilities*

Edit: I need to stop typing in the dark...
*Fixes multipule spelling errors*

Sure. Feel free to post all your movesets here (particularily if they are even remotely as great as your last one ). I'm all for anything that will keep my thread alive.

We're closing in on McFox's thread's view count! Understand, I'm "NOT" saying you guys should visit my thread over and over and over just so I can beat McFox. See how much I'm "NOT" telling you to do that?

Andy​

A - A single horizontal wrench chop.
AA - A follow-through chop, reversing the direction of the first attack.
AAA - The finishing blow: a strong overhead chop with both arms behind it.

Side Tilt A - A quick baseball-swing with the wrench.
Up Tilt A - Andy pokes his wrench vertically, looking a bit like Marth's Up Smash.
Down Tilt A - Andy sweeps out ahead of him with both legs.

Side Smash - A 360 degree spin of the wrench, begining as a baseball-swing, but instead of stopping, it keeps going around, hitting on both sides.
Up Smash - Andy plants his wrench on the ground, then vaults on top of it upside down, sending his feet upwards in a sweeping arc.
Down Smash - Andy slams the ground ahead of him with a powerful overhead swing of the wrench.

Nair - Andy's version of the sex kick. His wrench acts as his leg, staying in place and hitting any who make contact with it.
Dair - Another baseball swing, only angled downwards, and the swing goes across the screen's Z-axis, limiting it's range. It makes up for that with speed and power.
Uair - Andy extends his arm and spins his wrench from the center.
Fair - Andy pulls his wrench upwards from below him, (like a reverse Mario spike).
Bair - Andy goes lateral, kicking out with both feet behind him.

Dash Attack - Andy slides a few feet while winding up a baseball-swing with his wrench, then delivers. Great knockback and damage, but heavy lag in the begining offsets it.

Grab - Andy reaches out with his wrench, grabbing his enemy in between the prongs.
Grab Hit - Andy tightens the wrench quickly, dealing a few points of damage.
Running Grab - Andy stretches out to his limit, increasing the grab's range, but lagging it up in the process as he struggles to balance on one foot.

B: Hyper Repair - Andy pumps his fist in the air and recovers 2% damage.
Side B: Beat Down - Andy rushes forwards, flailing his wrench ahead of him for a short distance. Hitboxes directly in front and behind, but not above or below.
Up B: Hyper Upgrade - Andy powers up, boosting himself skywards on a wave of energy. The move does no damage, but it's fast, and during the next 2-3 seconds, all attacks do 1.5x their normal damage.
Down B: Block Rock - Andy whips out a walkie-talkie and calls in an artillery barrage on both sides of himself. Similar to Thunder, only with multiple hits, more range, and less knockback.

See? An Andy moveset can be fun and cool.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

That's a very well conceived, well written moveset Mendez. But the idea of a wrench weilding fighter hust doesn't sound that appealing to me. I've been a strong advocate for similar ideas admittedly (paint brush wielders, Staff weilders, giant key weilders, etc) but a wrench is where I draw the line. What's next? Someone who fights with a flower pot? Someone who fights with a lawn ornament? Sorry, but a wrech just doesn't sound that exciting to me and I doubt that it would do justice to the Advance Wars series.

Good book. Bad reference though.

Now that you mention it, your pony refernace does ring a bell. Wow, its been a while since my ninth grade English class...

Nonsense and poppycock. Everyone knows how awesome Nick is: "Kahn" is more related to Star Trek than a Nintendo game.

He may have started as Kirk's nemesis, but now a days he's the leader of a group of secret agents who solve the world's problems with superhuman dance moves! I'm sorry, but that beats some lawyer...

Although, Melee only came out a month or two after Luigi's Mansion, so a moveset based on that would have been more than a bit unlikely. On the other hand, Dedede's been around so long (with his moves in tow), that I don't think that factor would affect the contents of his moveset.

That's a fair argument, but I still envision a Dx3 as a Luigified Kirby clone that acurately reflects the abilities of Dx3's appearances in the Kirby games. We'll just have to wait and see who is proved correct...

EAD Tokyo man, Nintendo EAD Tokyo. Heck yes.

Silly me, trying to tell the Encyclopedia Brown of videogames something he didn't already know. (See? I can make obscure literary referances too.)

Except that Ninty owns the DKC characters, and everything else DK related. But Banjo and Conker weren't in DKRDS, because they're owned by Rare, as is Joanna Dark and her franchise. We could see Goldeneye because Rare doesn't own any of that property, but Rare created and holds the rights to every PD game, so unless Microsoft decides to give their competitor a game, it won't be happening.

The original Perfect dark was published by Nintendo, was I'm guessing Nintendo owns some of the rights to that game. Or am I just grasping at strws becuase its my favorite N64 game ever?

The combat's definitely the best in any Zelda, as is the overall control. I'm just saying that it's not as mind-blowing as your first time playing DDR or Canvas Curse.

Well, I suppose that's a question of personal opinion. I have yet to catch the DDR bug.

I saw most of the first and second seasons, and while I thought they were good, I'm obviously not as enthusiastic about the show as you are.

I've heard good things about the game though.

Well that's good. As long as I get to play as Jack Bauer, it's guaranteed to be awesome by default.

I could argue that SotC more accurately reflects an actual fantasy adventure. Surely Gandalf's rides on Shadowfax weren't constantly interrupted by random plantlife and/or lizardmen.

Uhh... how can you have an "accurate" depiction of a "fantasy" adventure? I like Lord of the Rings as much as the next guy, but Tolkein's novels weren't based on actual events - they were works of imagination, like SotC and the Zelda games. I don't think you can single either of them out as an "accurate depiction of a fantasy adventure".

It's very hard to describe what makes SotC so compelling. On paper, "no music, no enemies, and long travel times" sounds boring, but what makes the difference is what makes Shadow the best adventure game ever: the setting. The land may be desolate, but it's certainly not bland. Every hill you crest yields more landscape to admire, a new goal to reach, or an oddity to investigate. It's made better by the lack of any onscreen displays and a really, really good camera. Wandering through the vast plains of Collossus is as close to art as games have ever gotten. (And for the record, there are a good deal of secrets to discover in SotC's world. Stamina lizards, health buds, rock turtles, hawk clans, and a very secret garden are all there; waiting to be found.)

I knew about the Stamina lizards, but those other things are new to me.

Okay, maybe I'm being a little hard on SotC. The world might be kinds bland by Zelda standards, but it only serves in making the killer boss battles even more more memorable. I suspect it was a intentional design choice (to avoid compromising the purity of the overall experience) and not an oversight. I personally prefer TP's overworld, but there's still plenty to love about Collosus' setting.

Compare it to WW: everyone complained about how boring sea travel was. Because it was a flat expanse, with one color (give or take a storm or two)...endlessly. If that water was instead diving valleys, murky lakes and treacherous mountain faces (as in Shadow), there would've been no complaints.

I don't understand people who label WW's sea exploration as "boring". In addition to being visually great, the ocean has plenty of octorocks to defeat, islands to explore, rubies to collect and enemy outposts to plunder.

But yeah, point taken. Shadow's world does have a fair bit of variety in terrain (particularily in the areas that the Boss Vattles take place).

Anyway, I could go on, but I fear I know your response already, and it really pains me to hear such negative things about the game. So let's just agree to disagree on this one, okay?

Fair enough. I really chouldn't rip on SotC as is one of the finest adbenture games ever made. I'd actually love to see what that studio could do with a Wii game...

I recomend that people should play both Collosus and Twilight Princess if they get a chance.

It'd be sort of like that, since we've actually seen Andross...just not all of him. Like I've been saying, it's a technicality, but one I'd like to see ignored.

We've also seen OoT Ganondorf, just not his child form.

You're tellin' me. Last time I saw an Arcadia copy was at least a year ago...for 45$...used. Oh well...still have my DC version. Also, I hate every Paper Mario game.

You HATE Paper Mario games? Do you also hate sun beams, weekends, Christmas Mornings, puppies and chocolate ice cream?

Uh, they should be. I'm pretty sure they are, but I'd ask someone else (like Wikipedia, for instance), since I tend to play my PSX games on my PSX, and my PS2 game (Okami) on whichever PS2 is at my house at the moment.

Tales of the Abyss is great, and both God of War games are a must (1st before 2nd). If you can find it, I think you'd really enjoy Indigo Prophecy as well.

And of course: Okami, SotC and KH2.

Thanks for the recomendations. If Abyss comes close to Symphonia's level of quality, I should really enjoy. And Indigo Prophesy won tons of awards for its story, so I'll definitely have to check it out.

I've read the last three pages at once... my head hurts. There were a few points I wanted to answer to, but cursed if I am going back into that mess . So I'm just going to answer what I remember, and avoid the walls of text since I'm a bit pressed for time:

I sympathize. Posting on this thread thread has become something of a second job for me.

About the update:

-I'm happy to see you added Micaiah. After the FE discussion here the other day, I did a bit of research on her. Looks interesting, and we don't get nearly enough magic users (and TP Zelda is a sissy who I'm not going to get caught dead using). So I'm expecting Ike and Micaiah now (if I had my way, would be Lyn and BK, but it's not happening).

Thanks, I think that change was for the better. Miciaiah would be a great way to show that Fire emblem is about more than just sword fighters, and with GoD coming out around the same time as Brawl her inclusion would definitely sell copies of the game.

-Bowserifying K.Rool to add Midna was a good idea. I can see ol' crocky as a clone much more easily than Dedede. It's a pity such an iconic character has to be cloned, but it has to be someone, and better him than Midna.

Of course, with my luck my original prediction was probably the correct one! Thefore by changing my prediction I forfitted all bragging rights...

-The Ouendan cheerleaders, SISSY!?!? *stabs Wiseguy with a rusty spork*. I have played both EBA and Ouendan 2, and let me tell you, the Agents have got nothing on the sheer awesome of Ryuta Ippongi and his squad.

Now for some other things:

*Pulls out the rusty fork*

Sorry, but I call 'em like I see 'em. Objectively and scientifically speaking, secret agents are way cooler than male cheerleaders. Hopefully we'll see a Ouendan/EBA crossover so we this debate will be settled.

-Yes, Wiseguy, the PSX games do work on the PS2, though you need a PSX memory card to go with them, as the PS2 memory doesn't work with them. So get the RPG catalogue and go to town! And yeah, Vagrant Story is really cool. Try it if you can find it. And if you're like me and Vagrant was never published in your country, I can also direct you towards a working emulator and an ISO of the game . Vagrant is like Chrono Trigger: no gamer should be forced to live without having at least tried it. Some PS2 recommendations... apart from what Mendez said, try Disgaea 1 and 2 (most fun SRPGs in the history of EVAR), and maybe some Wild Arms (I haven't played WA 4, but I have heard nothing but praise from those who have played it)

Thanks for the heads up. I'm not sure if my friend owns a PSX memory card, but I definitely ask him.

And thanks for the recomendations. I've never heard much about Disgaea beyond that's its an RPG.

Here's my list right now:

1) Okami

2) Final Fantasy XII

3) 24: The Game

4) Metal Gear Solid 2

5) Tales of the Abyss

6) Disgaea 1 and 2

7) Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2

8) God of War 1 and 2

Yep it's going to be great summer. Last time I borrowed a friend's PS2 I rented one game after another in a mad attempt to play as many games as possible. I probably won't get to all these games by summer's end (I do have to work...) but I can at least try.

-If BK is in, the first one to crack a "It's only a flesh wound" is going to get a concussion wound to accompany it ¬¬#. Yeah, we all liked Holy Grail, but if Brawl has Internet I'm already going to have to listen to those continuously.

Don't worry, I doubt Brawl's online will have voice chat. And COME ON, PANSY! everyone loves BK jokes!

-I'm with Mendez in the Zelda argument. For all of the awesome TP had, WW still felt a fresher experience. I keep saying, WW was brutally underrated. Yeah, it was easy as pie, but so was TP (really, TP may have some of the coolest characters to date, and give plenty of roleplaying epic for us RP buffs, but my 8-year-old cousin can beat the dungeons) and the pacing in WW was just perfectly designed.

I love them both, even though they are both a bit on the easy side (one of the reasons why Metroid Prime edges out Zelda as my favorite single player series). However, while Wind Waker is definitely UNDERrated and certainly the best looking graphically, Twilight Princess is simply a deeper and lengthier experience, in my opinion.

-Nice Andy moveset there, Mendez. A bit generic maybe, but certainly workable. What would his final smash be? A bomber run? Though I am still convinced Andy has a snowball's chance in hell to be in Brawl (but who knows. Sakurai likes to thow us curveballs. Anyone here can honestly said they expected the next SSB would star Pit?)

Or Solid Snake. Yep, good point. Though I think Kahn or Sora would be an even bigger curve ball than some guy with a wrench.

Aaaand gotta go now. I'd answer more, but I should try to look like I'm working or something .

Thanks for risking your employment to bring us your intelligent analysis, Drascin. Keep it up.

I believe if she was replaced with she/he/it/potatoe then your statement stands true.

Geez! I came up with that rule, you'd think I would remember to follow it. What he said Stryks.

 

[Phaazoid]

@wiseguy refering to you putting midna/wolf link in because of the moveset
i like all the movesets people here have suggested, but just because a character has a good moveset doesn't mean he/she/it should be in the roster. what if, say, andy got in and <insert your most wanted character here> didn't?
wouldn't you be pissed, especially if your character came up multiple times on Sakurais poll?
i sure would be. if you think about it, there are so many awesome characters that deserve to be in, that you have to cut a bunch to get below fifty. i would have included the mii idea into my character suggestion thread, but i was already at 47 people. already unlikey. plus there are the wtf characters that sakurai will include, so i think any character that only has a moveset or was only recently put in a game should be cut. plus, i didn't include characters that i didn't want that have a chance (tom nook, Bowser Jr, Waluigi) because i would rather they not be in brawl (just my opinion)

 

[Wiseguy]

@wiseguy refering to you putting midna/wolf link in because of the moveset
i like all the movesets people here have suggested, but just because a character has a good moveset doesn't mean he/she/it should be in the roster. what if, say, andy got in and <insert your most wanted character here> didn't?

WHAT?!? ANDY INSTEAD OF DAISY DUKE?!?! NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

(Joking. Olimar and the Black Knight all the way!)

wouldn't you be pissed, especially if your character came up multiple times on Sakurais poll?
i sure would be. if you think about it, there are so many awesome characters that deserve to be in, that you have to cut a bunch to get below fifty. i would have included the mii idea into my character suggestion thread, but i was already at 47 people. already unlikey. plus there are the wtf characters that sakurai will include, so i think any character that only has a moveset or was only recently put in a game should be cut. plus, i didn't include characters that i didn't want that have a chance (tom nook, Bowser Jr, Waluigi) because i would rather they not be in brawl (just my opinion)

While I praised Mendez's moveset, I almost made it clear that I didn't think Andy would make a very good addition. Give me a little credit, I don't go ga-ga everytime someone posts a decent moveset. But Midna appeared prominently in the latest game in the Zelda series and of her possible forms I went with the one I felt was the most unique.

 

[Drascin]

I sympathize. Posting on this thread thread has become something of a second job for me.

Well, it is a very good thread, so you can at least be proud of what all that work has accomplished. I first registered in this forum to reply here, actually, and I think 11 of my 12 posts are in this thread (the other one was an answer to some noob, threatening to eat his soul if he kept saying Minun and Plusle were shoe-ins for brawl ^^).

Thanks, I think that change was for the better. Miciaiah would be a great way to show that Fire emblem is about more than just sword fighters, and with GoD coming out around the same time as Brawl her inclusion would definitely sell copies of the game.

Yeah. I like fast swordsmen (my main reaon to like Marth in Melee, actually. I knew almost nothing about FE, and you can be sure I was not aware he was that godly. I simply liked his style, so I mained him) but variety is good, and it seems we're running awfully low on the magic-user count.

Of course, with my luck my original prediction was probably the correct one! Thefore by changing my prediction I forfitted all bragging rights...

Of course. Murphy's Law is the founding law of the universe, as we all know. Those nuclear and quantum physics guys just want to feel better.

*Pulls out the rusty fork*

Sorry, but I call 'em like I see 'em. Objectively and scientifically speaking, secret agents are way cooler than male cheerleaders. Hopefully we'll see a Ouendan/EBA crossover so we this debate will be settled.

Not when said cheerleaders have trascended humanity to become beacons of hope and coolness for the whole world. Ouendan 2's last cheer shows this pretty clearly. As long as somebody needs them, the ouendan are not going to leave them hanging, even if they have to defy death herself to do it. That is what makes them awesome. The EBA are just some random agent mooks commanded by a man much cooler than they deserve to have as a superior, paid to do what the ouendan did just out of a will to help. Sorry, but I'm sticking with the japanese side here.

Also, Ouendan's stories are just much more absurdly fun . And the synchronization of some songs is torture.in EBA

Thanks for the heads up. I'm not sure if my friend owns a PSX memory card, but I definitely ask him.

And thanks for the recomendations. I've never heard much about Disgaea beyond that's its an RPG.

Here's my list right now:

1) Okami

2) Final Fantasy XII

3) 24: The Game

4) Metal Gear Solid 2

5) Tales of the Abyss

6) Disgaea 1 and 2

7) Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2

8) God of War 1 and 2

Yep it's going to be great summer. Last time I borrowed a friend's PS2 I rented one game after another in a mad attempt to play as many games as possible. I probably won't get to all these games by summer's end (I do have to work...) but I can at least try.

Well, Disgaea is not a true RPG per se, given it's light in the "roleplaying" part. It's a tactic RPG, in the vein of FFTactics or even Fire Emblem. Basically, to get Disgaea, take a part of FFT, take out the epics, add a quirky and fun storyline with some of the most lovable characters ever, a sense of humor, improve every single mechanic of the game to a power of infinite (adding some peculiar mechanics of its own, too, such as the Dark Assembly or the Item World), and voila, Disgaea. I could write a freaking essay on these games, but this is not the time nor the place.

And you better get comfortable if you intend to complete all those games in a single summer. You're not leaving your gaming chair often . I'd suggest tubefeeding to eliminate the need to lose gaming time for lunch and such.

Don't worry, I doubt Brawl's online will have voice chat. And COME ON, PANSY! everyone loves BK jokes!

Actually I found the Black Knight to be one of the least amusing parts of Holy Grail, together with the french castle hijinks. The bridge scene, the witch judgement, Tim, the cave, all those were much better, IMO. So while I liked him, I'd much rather quote Sir Bedevere and his amazing feats of "logic" .

I love them both, even though they are both a bit on the easy side (one of the reasons why Metroid Prime edges out Zelda as my favorite single player series). However, while Wind Waker is definitely overrated and certainly the best looking graphically, Twilight Princess is simply a deeper and lengthier experience, in my opinion.

I do hope you meant underrated here, or between your slight towards the all-awesome Ouendan and this, I might have to track you down and kill you in your sleep. And yeah, TP was deeper alright. As I said, I am a roleplayer, I like to get into the story as much as I can, and TP gave me some great fun in this respect. It did manage to get me to care a lot about a character (Midna, obviously), to the point her apparent death had me positively enraged. That kind of emotional investment is something neither OoT nor SotC have managed .

Or Solid Snake. Yep, good point. Though I think Kahn or Sora would be an even bigger curve ball than some guy with a wrench.

Yeah, if Kahn is in, the "WTF"s will be heard worldwide. Which is good, of course. I like unexpected surprises (Duck Hunt Dog for Brawl! Okay, maybe not, but if that doesn't surprise you, you're hopeless )

EDIT: After writing that, I went out of the thread and noticed a Duck Hunt Dog thread in the first page... WTF people?! It was a joke!

Thanks for risking your employment to bring us your intelligent analysis, Drascin. Keep it up.

Nah, I wasn't risking unemployment, just a fail in the project. I was at college (hey, I'm only 20) and I was browsing Smashboards while I was supposed to be programming, which could be somewhat bad if I got caught

 

[Wiseguy]

Well, it is a very good thread, so you can at least be proud of what all that work has accomplished. I first registered in this forum to reply here, actually, and I think 11 of my 12 posts are in this thread (the other one was an answer to some noob, threatening to eat his soul if he kept saying Minun and Plusle were shoe-ins for brawl ^^).

I'm glad I was able to contrubute to Smashboards in some small way. I'm actually glad that people are continuing to post here as it saves me the trouble of bumping it myself.

Also thanks for the warning. I was about to replace Pikachu with Plulse and Minun, but since it would cost me my soul I might reconsider...

Not when said cheerleaders have trascended humanity to become beacons of hope and coolness for the whole world. Ouendan 2's last cheer shows this pretty clearly. As long as somebody needs them, the ouendan are not going to leave them hanging, even if they have to defy death herself to do it. That is what makes them awesome. The EBA are just some random agent mooks commanded by a man much cooler than they deserve to have as a superior, paid to do what the ouendan did just out of a will to help. Sorry, but I'm sticking with the japanese side here.

Also, Ouendan's stories are just much more absurdly fun . And the synchronization of some songs is torture.in EBA

Hey, getting a government check for saving the world is just smart. If those cheerleader dopes were thinking, they'd make some money for their trouble as well.

Anyway, you have at least convinced me to give Ouendean a try. If it's sequel graces my shores, you can bet I'll check it out.

Well, Disgaea is not a true RPG per se, given it's light in the "roleplaying" part. It's a tactic RPG, in the vein of FFTactics or even Fire Emblem. Basically, to get Disgaea, take a part of FFT, take out the epics, add a quirky and fun storyline with some of the most lovable characters ever, a sense of humor, improve every single mechanic of the game to a power of infinite (adding some peculiar mechanics of its own, too, such as the Dark Assembly or the Item World), and voila, Disgaea. I could write a freaking essay on these games, but this is not the time nor the place.

And you better get comfortable if you intend to complete all those games in a single summer. You're not leaving your gaming chair often . I'd suggest tubefeeding to eliminate the need to lose gaming time for lunch and such.

I love Fire Emblem, so I don't to give Disgarea a try as well if it is at all similar.

Yeah, I probably will only scratch the surface of the games I want to play. Though I can see the genius in genius in your tube feeding idea...

Actually I found the Black Knight to be one of the least amusing parts of Holy Grail, together with the french castle hijinks. The bridge scene, the witch judgement, Tim, the cave, all those were much better, IMO. So while I liked him, I'd much rather quote Sir Bedevere and his amazing feats of "logic" .

Bridgekeeper: Stop. What... is your name?
Galahad: Sir Galahad of Camelot.
Bridgekeeper: What... is your quest?
Galahad: I seek the Grail.
Bridgekeeper: What... is your favourite colour?
Galahad: Blue. No, yel...
Galahad: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

I do hope you meant underrated here, or between your slight towards the all-awesome Ouendan and this, I might have to track you down and kill you in your sleep. And yeah, TP was deeper alright. As I said, I am a roleplayer, I like to get into the story as much as I can, and TP gave me some great fun in this respect. It did manage to get me to care a lot about a character (Midna, obviously), to the point her apparent death had me positively enraged. That kind of emotional investment is something neither OoT nor SotC have managed .

DOH! UNDERrated is what I meant. It's fixed now...

And yeah, it puzzles me how Mendez and others seem to disregard TP's incredible storyline. Though I still prefer Majora's mask story by a tiny margin.

Yeah, if Kahn is in, the "WTF"s will be heard worldwide. Which is good, of course. I like unexpected surprises (Duck Hunt Dog for Brawl! Okay, maybe not, but if that doesn't surprise you, you're hopeless )

Duck Hunt would be surprising. But what would his taunt be?

Nah, I wasn't risking unemployment, just a fail in the project. I was at college (hey, I'm only 20) and I was browsing Smashboards while I was supposed to be programming, which could be somewhat bad if I got caught

My university classes ended about a month ago, so I understand perfectly. Good luck in your studies.

 

[Phaazoid]

@ wiseguy
while i agree midna is a very unique character, i believe that skull kid (with or without majoras mask, no difference to me) would be a better addition. skull kid has appeared in many zelda games, includeing TP, and is also very unique. he could have a great moveset, and i believe is the top tier for a new addition in the zelda series, if there is one. many if my friends believe there is no one else worth it. i personally hate midna because she is so **** annoying in TP, but that gives me more a reason to put her in (to bear her up at lv 1)
i knew that you made it clear andy has no chance (i agree), i was just using him as an example because he has such bad chances. as far as holy grail quotes go
for cutting Mr. G@W and shiek, "you must cut down the tallest tree in the forest, with a herring!"

 

[Wiseguy]

@ wiseguy
while i agree midna is a very unique character, i believe that skull kid (with or without majoras mask, no difference to me) would be a better addition. skull kid has appeared in many zelda games, includeing TP, and is also very unique. he could have a great moveset, and i believe is the top tier for a new addition in the zelda series, if there is one. many if my friends believe there is no one else worth it. i personally hate midna because she is so **** annoying in TP, but that gives me more a reason to put her in (to bear her up at lv 1)
i knew that you made it clear andy has no chance (i agree), i was just using him as an example because he has such bad chances. as far as holy grail quotes go
for cutting Mr. G@W and shiek, "you must cut down the tallest tree in the forest, with a herring!"

I'm a huge Skullkid fan and would personally rather see him than Midna. However, there's no denying that with TP getting all tyhe hype these days Midna is far more likely. Sure, Skull Kid was a memorable villian in Majora's Mask and a minor character in OoT and TP - but Midna was the main character in what is arguably the greatest Zelda game ever.

I really like G&W, and it pained me to have to remove him from my list - but given the vast number of great characters vying for a limited number of spots on the roster I just don't think his chances of returning are very good.

As for Sheik, she is scum and I would devote my life to cutting down that tree with a herring if it meant that he/she/it/potatoe got the axe. No offense,

 

[Phaazoid]

@wiseguy well, on the matter of shiek, i believe it is best for us to agree to disagree. i see what your point on G@W is, but i thought it was better to only cut the obvious clones (doc, yl, pichu, roy)
just because midna starred in one zelda game, doesn't mean skull kid has less of a chance. remember, Sakurai is going for unique characters with less attention (pit, ice climbers, G@W)
Midna may be new, but skull kid is classic , making his chances rise. as for the cutting of G@W because of amount of characters, maybe you should be a little more optimistic and hope for, around, 47 (unrealistic but awesome)

 

[Wiseguy]

@wiseguy well, on the matter of shiek, i believe it is best for us to agree to disagree. i see what your point on G@W is, but i thought it was better to only cut the obvious clones (doc, yl, pichu, roy)
just because midna starred in one zelda game, doesn't mean skull kid has less of a chance. remember, Sakurai is going for unique characters with less attention (pit, ice climbers, G@W)
Midna may be new, but skull kid is classic , making his chances rise. as for the cutting of G@W because of amount of characters, maybe you should be a little more optimistic and hope for, around, 47 (unrealistic but awesome)

Okay, we'll leave the Sheik debate for another day. I've made enough enemies on that front...

Sakurai does give attention to obscure-but-awesome characters, but usually not at the expense of currently relevant and popular characters. With the Zelda series in particular, Sakurai seems to favor characters from the more recent games over the older games.

If Skull Kid was a forgotten character deserving of some recognition, then you would have a point. But he isn't forgotten - he had his own minor sidequest in Twilight Princess. There is also the fact that when including Skull Kid they would probably feel compelled to go with his most recent incarnation - the signifcantly less brawl worthy TP version.

I could easily think of seven or a dozen characters who deserve a spot more than G&W. Would you rather see G&W return at the expense of your favorite potential newcomer being cut?



Since asked a similar question of me, here's one for you:

Would you want an obscure

 

[Phaazoid]

@wiseguy
i agree that TP skull kid would not work as well as, say, majora's mask skull kid. i personally hope he keeps all non-clone characters, (24), leaving room for as many as twice that amount. i believe that the top tiers should definitely get in first (ridley, dedede, wolf), but if there is room, don't take him out for no reason. most people want him out because they think he sucks and is annoying and would rather him not be in anyways. but if you use my own argument against me (*******), i can still counter on that. the thing is, i didn't look at G@W as replacing a character, i believed that it would be like saying "What? fox got in but ridley didn't? what a load of $hit!"

 

[Wiseguy]

@wiseguy
i agree that TP skull kid would not work as well as, say, majora's mask skull kid. i personally hope he keeps all non-clone characters, (24), leaving room for as many as twice that amount. i believe that the top tiers should definitely get in first (ridley, dedede, wolf), but if there is room, don't take him out for no reason. most people want him out because they think he sucks and is annoying and would rather him not be in anyways. but if you use my own argument against me (*******), i can still counter on that. the thing is, i didn't look at G@W as replacing a character, i believed that it would be like saying "What? fox got in but ridley didn't? what a load of $hit!"

Sorry, I guess I left that last sentense unfinished (Smashboards doesn't seem to allow any edits today...)

Understand, I'm all for obscure characters like Game & Watch making guest appearances. I'd just rather have G&W pass on the torch to another forgotten retro character like Geno or Balloon Fighter.

Saying that a character shouldn't return becuase they sucked in Melee is as dumb as saying that a character should return becuase they were good in Melee. The characters are guaranteed to be nerfed and buffed accordingly to make the game more balanced anyway.

 

[Phaazoid]

@ wiseguy
i agree, i am just hoping G@W stays, as he is my second. ice climbers can go, i never use them, but, mainly, i think we've come to a point of agreement.

 

[NukeA6]

Samurai Goroh can't be a Falcon clone. He has a katana and he can use it.

So Miciaiah is a lord? If she's in, I'm good. We need a FE character without a sword and she would be perfect (seeing that she's a mage). Sigurd would be good too since he uses a spear (but he also uses swords).

Bonk is a strange one and Louie is doubtful.