Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[raphtmarqui]

Why do ppl say Ike will replace Marth when most of Ike's attacks shown so far look nothing like his?

 

[:034:]

Why do ppl say Ike will replace Marth when most of Ike's attacks shown so far look nothing like his?

Try Eruption. Also, his falling stance is the exact same as Marth's (see Castle Siege update), and most normal moves shown resemble Marth's moves.

 

[Bassoonist]

Try Eruption. Also, his falling stance is the exact same as Marth's (see Castle Siege update), and most normal moves shown resemble Marth's moves.

Their falling stance looks alike...

How in the world does that deconfirm Marth? I'm sure there are plenty of non clone characters that had similar falling stances in Melee.

That's a ridiculous assumption. So is the Eruption thing... It looks different to me. We haven't played the game either, we've only seen one screenshot of it.

 

[:034:]

Their falling stance looks alike...

How in the world does that deconfirm Marth? I'm sure there are plenty of non clone characters that had similar falling stances in Melee.

That's a ridiculous assumption. So is the Eruption thing... It looks different to me. We haven't played the game either, we've only seen one screenshot of it.

Not saying it deconfirms Marth. Just disproving his statement.

And yeah, Eruption looks the same as Shield Breaker. Try it out, look at the end of the slashing animation, it's pretty much the same.

 

[Arteen]

1st Party- Owned by Nintendo
2nd Party- Works with Nintendo
3rd Party- Works against Nintendo
2nd-3rd Party- Works for the company working against Nintendo
Independant Party- Works for anyone.

1st party: Made by an internal development studio of a console manufacturer (e.g. Nintendo)
2nd party: Made by a separate development studio, but has a deal to work exclusively with a certain console manufacturer (e.g. former Rare)
3rd party: Made by a separate development studio independent of a console manufacturer (e.g. current Sega)

There isn't anything beyond those. Here's essentially the same thing from Wikipedia.

In the video game industry:

* First-party developer, a division of a console manufacturer, who develops games for the company's video game console
* Second-party developer, a company that is tied to, and makes games specifically for, a console manufacturer
* Third-party developer, a company licensed by, but not directly tied to, a console manufacturer

 

[raphtmarqui]

Not saying it deconfirms Marth. Just disproving his statement.

And yeah, Eruption looks the same as Shield Breaker. Try it out, look at the end of the slashing animation, it's pretty much the same.

Ok, i think u need glasses or something. Ike is clearly stabbing his sword into the ground during Eruption. So the makes his two special moves completely different than Marths. As for standard attacks some of them look different. Yea a couple of his A attacks look similar in freeze frames, but the same thing could be said for a lot of other characters in the game.

 

[Dark Sonic]

And yeah, Eruption looks the same as Shield Breaker. Try it out, look at the end of the slashing animation, it's pretty much the same.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/ike.html

Not even close man.

Doing a quick browse over his character BIO, so far none of Ike's moves look like Marth's. The closest one there is the top right pic. It kind of looks like the opening animation for Marth's f-tilt, but Ike is making a much larger lunge foward than Marth did. Marth also didn't bend his front arm when doing his f-tilt.

I don't see how Ike would replace Marth, especially with how few bishounen characters we have in the first place.
List of Bishounen characters: Pit.... that's it.
Some people would actually like their swordsman to be kinda graceful, rather than Ike's overly exertive crushing blows. A sword is for slicing, not crushing, so it doesn't make sense to focus on power rather than speed. You don't have to cut your opponent in half straight down the middle, you could just attack their vulnerable spots like a skilled swordsman should.

 

[Phaazoid]

thank you. Ike is nothing like marth (hair aside) and hopefully won't replace him.

 

[OysterMeister]

Ike wont replace Marth. The very idea that these characters are similar enough to trade places is absurd.
If Ganondorf and Captain Falcon have taught us anything, it's that a character is more than just his moves, he's also the stats behind those moves. We know from the Dojo that Ike is a heavy character who's moves don't resemble Marths, that right there should be enough to prove that the two are not the same.
The only similarities between Marth and Ike are their blue hair and penchant for swords.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Hey, we never know, he could replace Marth, he couldn't replace Marth, it could go either way. I won't be too heart broken if he doesn't make it.

 

[OysterMeister]

See, I don't see WHY it could go either way. There's plenty to argue why Ike COULDN'T replace Marth (dissimilar moves, character weight, etc..), but everything to argue why Ike COULD replace Marth (sword with a wide tip, time of Ike's confirmation) is flimsy at best.
How has this crazy theory lasted so long? That's the real question.

 

[Bassoonist]

See, I don't see WHY it could go either way. There's plenty to argue why Ike COULDN'T replace Marth (dissimilar moves, character weight, etc..), but everything to argue why Ike COULD replace Marth (sword with a wide tip, time of Ike's confirmation) is flimsy at best.
How has this crazy theory lasted so long? That's the real question.

Perhaps it's because some people are close-minded, calling Marth gay, or saying they're too similar and couldn't be made different, underestimating Sakurai's creativity.

Of course Marth could be removed, but I doubt it'd be because of Ike.

 

[ParamoreRiot]

The only reason Ike would replace Marth is solely because they might be trying to put newer FE characters in SSBB.

 

[Hydde]

You don't have to cut your opponent in half straight down the middle, you could just attack their vulnerable spots like a skilled swordsman should.

Tell that to the guy from the anime "Berserk" .... he would prove you wrong! =P


Now on the topic.... nahh marth will be back... the only thing they have in common is that both use swords....and even the swords are different and are used differently

 

[jimmysilverrims]

See, I don't see WHY it could go either way. There's plenty to argue why Ike COULDN'T replace Marth (dissimilar moves, character weight, etc..), but everything to argue why Ike COULD replace Marth (sword with a wide tip, time of Ike's confirmation) is flimsy at best.
How has this crazy theory lasted so long? That's the real question.

Well, you don't have to be a copy of someone to replace them. You can be totally diffrent and replace someone on the roster. PT replaced Pichu and they're not even close to being alike.

 

[ParamoreRiot]

Well, you don't have to be a copy of someone to replace them. You can be totally diffrent and replace someone on the roster. PT replaced Pichu and they're not even close to being alike.

Theres no evidence of PT replacing Pichu.
So I don't know what your talking about.
(But I hope that Pichu isn't in it.)

 

[Bassoonist]

Well, you don't have to be a copy of someone to replace them. You can be totally diffrent and replace someone on the roster. PT replaced Pichu and they're not even close to being alike.

Wow. We don't know that Pichu isn't going to be in the game. I mean I hope he won't be in, but there's no way of knowing he actually replaced Pichu.

Besides Marth is different. Marth isn't a clone.

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

Character Roster Time!
I'm not doing it by franchise, but by whatever random whim I have.
Oh, and it's by Character Screen, so PT and Samus are both one spot.
Also, the 40 character limit is arse-hatted.

Confirmed Brawlers:
1. Mario
2. Link
3. Pikachu
4. Pit
5. Kirby
6. Fox
7. Samus/ZSS
8. Wario
9. Zelda
10. Bowser
11. DK
12. Yoshi
13. Ike
14. Pokemon Trainer
15. Diddy Kong
16. Princess Peach
17. Metaknight
18. Ice Climbers
19. Snake

Returning veterans:
20. Captain Falcon
Goroh as AT with icon basically confirmed the Captain.
21. Luigi
D.U.H.
22. Jigglypuff
Still insanely popular.
23. Mr. Game & Watch
The icon theory can't be a coincidence.
24. Ganondorf
Essential to the Zelda series, so will show up again.
25. Marth
I'm told he's very popular, and that may be enough in itself to keep him on the roster.

Newcomers:
26. Lucario
Considered by many the mascot of Diamond and Pearl, though this is as status thrust upon it by Nintendo's marketing department. But that, combined with huge popularity, should be enough.
27. Lucas
Because it would strike a blow for Mother 3 translation, which would please the fans of the series. And Lucas looks enough like Ness that it doesn't really matter, right? And Lucas actually has psychic powers, so it would be game-accurate, for a change.
28. King Dedede
Won Sakurai's poll, and is a giant, hammer-wielding penguin. Need I say more?
29. Ridley
The popular recurring antagonist of Samus would give the Metroid series the representation it richly deserves.
30. Captain Olimar
One word: Miyamoto. Do not doubt the power of Lord Shigeru, Master of Fates (of Nintendo, anyway). Plus, would be the most unique character in Brawl, using Pikmin for special attacks instead of his own body.
31. Meowth
WHA??!! Meowth? Of course! meowth's status as a series icon of Pokemon was established by the anime, but note that several of the trophies in Melee pay homage to it. Like the Misty trophy which bears no resemblance besides red-hair to the RBY Gym Leader?
32. WW Link
I would have thought this was a self-evident pick, but apparently the uber-geeks of this board beg to disagree. But seriously, folks, the LoZ series has BRANCHED! TP and WW represent two different Links, and two different worlds. WW Link (known by some as Celda), has a plethora of unique items and skills to call upon, falsifying claims that he would be a boring, stupid clone.
33. Paper Mario
HUH?! Where's Bowser Jr.? What about Geno? Fools. Paper Mario is the star of three critically acclaimed and best-selling games spanning three Nintendo consoles. He has so many different moves to call upon from these three games that he could only be a clone in appearance. And even then, it would be different, because Paper mario would be flat, 2-D, making him very light. Imagine footstool jumps!
34. Krystal
To make the furries of the world happy.
35. Wolf
Because Brawl is deficient in bad-arsery. And having seen excellent non-cloney movesets, I can safely say he wouldn't be a clone.
36. Sukapon
Obligatory retro character, and is adorable.
37. Micaiah
Sakurai has expressed an interest in more females, and she's probably one of the best opportunities for representation for girls.
38. Tom Nook
I really can't imagine such a bland, generic character as AC Human being playable, yet Nook is seemingly deconfirmed. I don't buy it. I still hold faith the tanooki mobster will prevail.
39. Bowser Jr.
An increasing presence of villains would be welcome. Also, the emphasis on Super Mario Sunshine bodes well for the sneaky vandal.
40. Little Mac
Adding to the retro contingent, and represents all sports games made by Nintendo.
41. Midna/Wolf Link
With a large TP presence, and her popularity, it seems logical.
42. Sonic
Because Sakurai knows to fear the wrath of millions of angry fanboys.

42 is a good number!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Boo to yours because you have paper Mario and also no Geno...

 

[Johnknight1]

I whole heartedly agree, Wisey, let's see some Sonic, he should be in over Geno, I know I'll just be rehashing what Johnny just said but, Geno is lower on the deserve-o-meter than Sonic, anyone can tell you that.

Yeah, I have to agree with Johnny. Although Roy should be banished at least one of the old FE characters should get in, and MArth is the prime canadate. Although BK is the most awesome being in existance and Machiah would be a fresh face to a usually all swordsman crowd, MArth should get in simply because he was in Melee. Booting off both Marth and Roy is a little bit of overkill, particularly if you're replacing them with others from the same franchise.

Although I think that, although WW Link seems to be really likely for Brawl, I don't think he should be in over Midna. And Tingle's Cel-Look is most likely based off of his most recent look, seeing as he [technically] wasn't in TP. Although I don't even think it should be Sheik vs. Midna, seeing as Sheik WILL NOT be in Brawl. Think about it: Why would Sheik be seperate from Zelda in confirmation? It makes no sense. Sheik would be a waste of a spot.

Like I have said before Miis are in all ways superior to the AC character, They represent more, they are more customisable and thusly more unique, they bring in casual gamers and have less against them. Miis are just all around more likely then AC character.

Yeah, I too have had it up to here with all of the 1st gen Pokemon, we simply need a new Pokemon that's a little more modern, and Lucario seems to be the likely canidate. I mean, it seems that there should be another Pokemon from the newer series, but I wouldn't be too downheatened if he/she doesn't make it. I think that Olimar has better chances then Krystal, but that's just me.

Yeah, I'm thinking that you may need to increase your 40 character challange to 45, it just seems more likely. If they have so much free time on their hands that they can make stickers, I think that they have enough time to program 5 more characters.

Yeah, Ness is in the original 12, I doubt he's going anywhere, particularly if he's being replaced with a blonde copy of himself. MOTHER 3 never made it to Western shores and Ness did. With a little anti-nerfing for Ness he can be brought to his former glory. We can rebuild him, make him better, stronger. And yeah, Ness should be higher priority, he's been in a SSB game twice already and has woven his way into all of our hearts.

EXACTALLY! Have no fear Johnny, I'm a clone fan too! Not because I like clones as a copy, but I like clones because it frees up room for more characters. Some clones just off the top of my head are WW Link, BK, and Falco/Wolf.

'Nuff said.

Sonic is all but confirmed, seriously. Sega will be boycotted into the darkest deeps of hell if Sonic isn't in Brawl, and will make DMC4 look like the tip of the iceberg. So one way or another, he's in. And Roy should return, but with a bigger blade, and stronger moves. Make him wiegh more then Ike, be slower then Ike, and have a single-handed sword. But the BK is still a valid possibility. And face it, doubting Marth is like doubting Luigi. Marth is gonna return, because he was not just #1 on Sakurai's Melee poll [with either 8 or 9 votes...more then Dedede], but he's immensely popular in Japan. Seriously, having Shiek in before him is pointless, and makes ZERO SENSE!

WW Link has two games [5 more hours...w00t!...or 20...d*** you SCHOOL! ], and Midna appeared in one, and only one. IDK who will make it [Shiek or Mdina], but WW/CS Link is top prioriey. Simply put, most Link's are Young Links, and we need one in Brawl, and who better then the most unique Link of them all=??? And Tingle confirmed Cel-shaded in Brawl, SO EAT THAT! HA, WW Link is imment now! And AC children are a waste, when Miis are the berst thing to happen to the Wii since online, the virtual console, and revolutionary controls. Not just do they have two online channels, but they are one of the Wiis' most popular things and features. It has and WILL attracts SOOO MANY non-gamers, it's almost silly. If Sakurai stays in the past with Pokémon, he's obviously appealing too much with old gamers then with new. That would be a waste, and Lucario is imment. Definitely.

And Wiseguy just needs to show some clone love. Miciah has no chance, and the BK has barely any chance of being original. Simply put, make WW Link and Luigi super Lugified-clones, adding Ness/Lucas, adding add Dark Samus, add Wolf/Falco, and make the BK/Roy a clone, and you're good. and of course change the minimally popular Issac with the extremely popular Sonic, the decision is imminet. Plus I am pretty sure Issac is 3rd party. But not 100% sure.

Uh...if Lucario's so popular, then how come he wasn't on the poll? Lucario was known by Japanese audiences since February 2005. Yet Sakurai never responded to someone who said Lucario, he only responded to someone who suggested Gardevoir and Steven Stone. So I don't think Lucario is as popular or important as you say he is, especially when you place him above Krystal, who was actually on the poll.

He was on the poll actually, with 3 votes, tied with Krystal and cel-shaded Link. That was before Pokémon D/P's release, so he is only more popular in Japan now. Plus he got his own movie.

JK1... what the hell?

You're saying that Luigi and CS Link would be a clone? Luigi wasn't even a clone in Melee...

Plus aren't all of the CS Link fanboys/fangirls trying to argue that CS Link would not be a clone of Link?

Luigi was a clone in Melee. He was just...well as luigified clone, which translatees into a semi-clone. And while my fellow CS Link followers say he should be original, I say he should be a luigified [semi-clone] addition to Brawl. He'd have primaraly the same B moves [but with alterations, and a original move=hopefully his fB], a mainly much original A moveset, and original grabs. So kinda a originality and clone mix, ya know. Just because I'm willing to sacrifice my most desired character for Brawl's originality for other characters, ya know. To be...fair, and because he'd still be original, just not AS ORIGINAl. Still, there is a good chance he could be a original character, but I think the semi-clone thing suites him. That is the one thing many people disagree with me on.

 

[Arteen]

Plus I am pretty sure Issac is 3rd party. But not 100% sure.

He's 1st party. 100% sure.

 

[Bassoonist]

Um... yeah, he's not third party. If he's not first party he's second party. He had two votes in Sakurai's poll... I hope he's in. [repeated for the 1,000,000th time by me]

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

Boo to yours because you have paper Mario and also no Geno...

I've never played Super Mario RPG, and don't ever plan on it. So I don't support Geno.
Also, I have Super Paper Mario, and it's frickin' awesome.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Sorry Johnknight, we must be looking at different lists...I've read the list up and down several times, and even looked at the topic regarding the list of characters mentioned. The only Pokemon representatives were Gardevoir and Steven Stone, with one mention each. I don't see Lucario anywhere...

 

[Shuma]

Lucario was not in Sakurai's poll.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

A sword is for slicing, not crushing, so it doesn't make sense to focus on power rather than speed. You don't have to cut your opponent in half straight down the middle, you could just attack their vulnerable spots like a skilled swordsman should.

Funny thing you should mention "graceful" swordsmanship in a game that is loosely based off of Western mythos. I mean, look at Ike. He is carrying around a honkin' claymore for crying out loud!

There's a good reason as to why some Western swordsman utilized a lack of finesse: It was because they faced ARMORED opponents. Having your blade dulled in this case is a bloody blessing-in-disguise. Blades that are sharpened to a fine point are inherently flimsy and are more likely to make ineffective nicks along the surface or even break off inside somebody's armor if you stab them. Dulled, blunt blades can crush armor and cause substantial (possibly fatal) damage to the person. Dulled blades also have a better chance of not snapping off when you stab somebody. Sure, it's not as effective as a mac, a flail, or even some polearms but it was still a viable means of attack.

There's a good reason why some people in Europe didn't run around with flimsy swords like rapiers or falchions (I'm looking at you, Marth). They don't have what it takes to take out an armored opponent. They are designed to be simple and borderlining ornate---for **** like duels, fencing, or what have you. People like nobles wielded those things. Most of your knights and militia men had short, durable swords or big, honkin' swords as either their primary weapon or their secondary. Which out of the two sees more combat here? Lol.

I think somebody missed Western History 101 and has been focusing too much on his samurai movies and anime. But that's okay, Sonic Wave. We still love you anyway.

And yes, your list has improved Wisey.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Saku]

^^^
I was on Sakurai's poll. (I just won't mention how...9_9)

I think a lot of you a placing a little too much emphasis on popularity. Not every character that comes into play needs to be popular. In fact, I'm betting that at least 3 characters making it into the game aren't going to be putting excited triangle-laugh smiles on peoples faces.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I've never played Super Mario RPG, and don't ever plan on it. So I don't support Geno.
Also, I have Super Paper Mario, and it's frickin' awesome.

Well I have both and Mario RPG is better...

Why stay ignorant of the awesomeness that is Super Mario RPG? ...It seems stupid to want to stay ignorant to a game of it's quality...

 

[Bassoonist]

I think that Paper Mario is better then Super Mario RPG, and yes I've played them both.

However opposing a character because you haven't played the game they're in is very stupid.

 

[Johnknight1]

Um... yeah, he's not third party. If he's not first party he's second party. He had two votes in Sakurai's poll... I hope he's in. [repeated for the 1,000,000th time by me]

I know he's not either 2nd or 3rd party, but I think I'll always be unsure.

However, you're probably right that he's 2nd party, I just don't see him happening. While I love Golden Sun, the series hasn't had a new entry, and isn't old enough to be called a cult classic, or even a classic for that matter [unlike games like Donkey Kong Country, and Super Mario Bros.]. However, you never know, and hopefully we get Golden Sun 3 (though not likely, seeing how Nintendo is too busy with Wii Fitness, lol).

I've never played Super Mario RPG, and don't ever plan on it. So I don't support Geno.
Also, I have Super Paper Mario, and it's frickin' awesome.

And ya, Lucario wasn't on Sakurai's poll cuz' he wasn't a stand out Pokémon [yet]. Simply put, he didn't become real popular UNTIL is movie. And until Pokémon D/P were released in Japan in Novemeber.


And:

Super Mario RPG > Paper Mario 2 = Paper Mario > Super Paper Mario > Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time > Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga. The original is still the best IMO. Super Mario RPG definitely rocks!

And pineappleupsetshark never said he was oppose to Geno, he just said he didn't support him.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

And ya, Lucario wasn't on Sakurai's poll cuz' he wasn't a stand out Pokémon [yet]. Simply put, he didn't become real popular UNTIL is movie. And until Pokémon D/P were released in Japan in Novemeber.

Lucario's movie was released before Sakurai's poll.

 

[Shuma]

He was on the poll actually, with 3 votes, tied with Krystal and cel-shaded Link. That was before Pokémon D/P's release, so he is only more popular in Japan now. Plus he got his own movie.

And ya, Lucario wasn't on Sakurai's poll cuz' he wasn't a stand out Pokémon [yet]. Simply put, he didn't become real popular UNTIL is movie. And until Pokémon D/P were released in Japan in Novemeber.

So, you where lying to make us think he was more popular than what he really is? how pathetic.

 

[hojiky]

Ness was of the original twelve. And now they bring in Lucas? I just hope Ness might still be in it.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Yeah, as Luke said....Lucario's movie was release in July 2005. Plus, D/P was released in Japan September 2006, so Japan had plenty of time to get acquainted with Lucario.

 

[Kirby knight]

Ness was of the original twelve.

So? It's not like he was iconic like Mario, Kirby, Pikachu, or Link. I was not surprised at all that Lucas pratically replaced him.

-Knight

 

[pikachu300692]

Lucas has been Confirmed for Brawl!!! Check it out: http://www.smashbros.com/en_uk/index.html

(I hope no one else has already posted it on this thread, if so, sorry)

 

[Wiseguy]

Morning folks. Looks like I was right for a change! Lucas is in. Isn't it strange how both he and Ike were revealed first, before their veteran counterparts? Almost makes one think that they are REPLACEMENTS. Or something.

Anywhoo, I'm afraid that I'll be far too busy to post very this week(uiversity papers, yadda yadda) but I'm try and pop in occasionally.

Wiseguy out.

 

[Numa Dude]

Bad news for my friend kreatheruthles. He owned with Ness. Oh well, maybe he can still own with Lucas.

 

[raphtmarqui]

It was fairly obvious Lucas would be in with that Mother 3 item badge thing.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Morning folks. Looks like I was right for a change! Lucas is in. Isn't it strange how both he and Ike were revealed first, before their veteran counterparts? Almost makes one think that they are REPLACEMENTS. Or something.

I agree about Ness, but Marth is most likely unlockable, so he has a high chance of being revealed later on. So we can't confirm it yet.