Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[jimmysilverrims]

-_- Could someone explain to me why I get PO'd when people refer to Sheik as male?

Cause she isn't.

Well ,for your information the accurate term is he/she/it/potato.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well ,for your information the accurate term is he/she/it/potato.

What the hell does that mean

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

No, the accurate term is she, Shiek is just Zelda in a disguise.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Ugh, no one get's in-jokes anymore.

Yeah, Sheik is Zelda in disguise, it's just the fact that I want something fresh, a new face instead of the heavily masked one of Sheik. I mean, who would you rather see in Brawl? Sheik or Ridley? You, of course will say "Ridley, hands down". Now before you say: "But we can have both" just hear me out. It makes perfect sense. It's impossible for the game to have over 40 good, individual, well rounded characters, right? Well, we can't have Ridley, Sonic, Megaman, Olimar, Krystal, Midna, Wolf, Lucario, and Sheik with out them being crappy and I think I speak for everyone when I say that no one wants that. Now the next thing you might say is "But they still have Sheik's frame from Melee!" You may think that makes perfect sense, and to the untrained eye, yes, you'd be right. But in Brawl everything's diffrent. A new physics engine means moves interact diffrently then in Melee. A new graphics program means that the old graphics will be useless. New moves men that they'll interact difrently then in Melee, meaning that Sheik needs an overhaul, she'd take just as much work as any other new character.

'Nuff said.

P.S: Zelda may be in disguise, but it's hinted at that she magically changes her identity. her whole identity if you know what I mean.

 

[Shadowplusle]

Ugh, no one get's in-jokes anymore.

Yeah, Sheik is Zelda in disguise, it's just the fact that I want something fresh, a new face instead of the heavily masked one of Sheik. I mean, who would you rather see in Brawl? Sheik or Ridley? You, of course will say "Ridley, hands down". Now before you say: "But we can have both" just hear me out. It makes perfect sense. It's impossible for the game to have over 40 good, individual, well rounded characters, right? Well, we can't have Ridley, Sonic, Megaman, Olimar, Krystal, Midna, Wolf, Lucario, and Sheik with out them being crappy and I think I speak for everyone when I say that no one wants that. Now the next thing you might say is "But they still have Sheik's frame from Melee!" You may think that makes perfect sense, and to the untrained eye, yes, you'd be right. But in Brawl everything's diffrent. A new physics engine means moves interact diffrently then in Melee. A new graphics program means that the old graphics will be useless. New moves men that they'll interact difrently then in Melee, meaning that Sheik needs an overhaul, she'd take just as much work as any other new character.

'Nuff said.

P.S: Zelda may be in disguise, but it's hinted at that she magically changes her identity. her whole identity if you know what I mean.

This guy's a genius!

seriously i agree with him. Having sheik in the game i think would be a waste. they should be focusing on the newer characters and making them better. like he said with the 40 well rounded characters, we want all of them to be good instead of having an over abundance of characters that suck. Im still going fo rjiggly puff and Ridley. but still we want the characters to be the masters of ownage and not the masters of being owned.

 

[Snakz]

The reason there's so much confusion with Sheik's gender is cause a small portion of people still refer to Sheik as a separate personality (in which Sheik is a guy) instead of Zelda's alter ego, hence why some people still call Sheik "him"

Though i still prefer he/she/it/potato, Wiseguy, if you made that, you really should copyright it

 

[Phaazoid]

Ugh, no one get's in-jokes anymore.

Yeah, Sheik is Zelda in disguise, it's just the fact that I want something fresh, a new face instead of the heavily masked one of Sheik. I mean, who would you rather see in Brawl? Sheik or Ridley? You, of course will say "Ridley, hands down". Now before you say: "But we can have both" just hear me out. It makes perfect sense. It's impossible for the game to have over 40 good, individual, well rounded characters, right? (wrong, we can't have more than 50 good characters. thats from sakurai. besides, it seems that all original characters are returning. *points to ice climbers*) Well, we can't have Ridley, Sonic, Megaman, Olimar, Krystal, Midna, Wolf, Lucario, and Sheik with out them being crappy and I think I speak for everyone when I say that no one wants that. Now the next thing you might say is "But they still have Sheik's frame from Melee!" You may think that makes perfect sense, and to the untrained eye, yes, you'd be right. But in Brawl everything's diffrent. A new physics engine means moves interact diffrently then in Melee. A new graphics program means that the old graphics will be useless.wrong again, look at kirby. almost exactly the same. look at pikachu. very similar. New moves men that they'll interact difrently then in Melee, meaning that Sheik needs an overhaul, she'd take just as much work as any other new character.well, gigabowser had an overhall, are you counting him separate?

'Nuff said.

P.S: Zelda may be in disguise, but it's hinted at that she magically changes her identity. her whole identity if you know what I mean.

me change in red.

(and nice sig snakz)

 

[O D I N]

Edit: By the way, Odin, I just realized that your profile says you're on leave for Halo 3. Do you play online?

I would if my roomies xbox's lens wasn't a PoS. PM me for my gamertag if you'd like it. Once the system starts working/is replaced/at my buddies house sunday, I'm always up for a game. ^ ^

Well ,for your information the accurate term is he/she/it/potato.

Ah yes. Deh potato... >_>

 

[Copperpot]

This guy's a genius!

seriously i agree with him. Having sheik in the game i think would be a waste. they should be focusing on the newer characters and making them better. like he said with the 40 well rounded characters, we want all of them to be good instead of having an over abundance of characters that suck. Im still going fo rjiggly puff and Ridley. but still we want the characters to be the masters of ownage and not the masters of being owned.

The problem with his logic (and a lot of other's, for that matter) is that this assumes that the team behind Brawl will fail to balance the game if there are 50 characters verse a roster of 40. With a large development team like Brawl's along with the increased development time, I see no reason why this is unrealistic. The game has been in playable form for quite a while, and it's relatively common for game studios to begin testing and balancing early in the process.

On top of that, consider that the Melee engine was given as a foundation for the game. That alone has to have saved a load of time.

 

[raphtmarqui]

Shiek is most likely in.

 

[Arteen]

On top of that, consider that the Melee engine was given as a foundation for the game. That alone has to have saved a load of time.

And of course, returning characters take significantly less time to upgrade for Brawl than it does to add a newcomer to Brawl.

 

[Copperpot]

And of course, returning characters take significantly less time to upgrade for Brawl than it does to add a newcomer to Brawl.

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe on the designing end, but as far as programming is concerned, I would guess that any returning character would take almost as long as a newcomer to put in.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Yeah, like I said, when making a sequel on a new console most of the stuff has to be remade. Normally they'd import most stuff from the old game but Brawl has a new physics engine, meaning that they won't be able to do that and still have them inteact correctly with other characters.

To the Kirby/Pikachu analogy: Kirby is a pink blob and Pikachu is a yellow mouse, not much you can graphically update. Sheik on the othe hand has hair, clothes, and several bandages around the face. That's A LOT of updates that need to be made. It would be much easier to have a simpler character like Olimar.

Melee has given a base for the game and I'm sure that Melee's old engine may have been a base, but It's like trying to build a skyscraper out of parts for a house. You need A LOT more parts that may or may not fit perfectally with all of the old parts. I think that Melee may haver been the foundation for the game, but I doubt that it's a 50% old 50% new deal here.

Bottom line- Sheik isn't worth the effort. Sheik wasn't popular (at least for the right purposes) in Melee and putting him/her/it/potato in Brawl would degrade from the individuality that is Zelda. Sheik is the wilting flower on the Brawl Tree. You can go through all of the trouble of trying to get it to re-bloom, or you can prune it and let a better flower grow in it's place.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yeah, like I said, when making a sequel on a new console most of the stuff has to be remade. Normally they'd import most stuff from the old game but Brawl has a new physics engine, meaning that they won't be able to do that and still have them inteact correctly with other characters.

To the Kirby/Pikachu analogy: Kirby is a pink blob and Pikachu is a yellow mouse, not much you can graphically update. Sheik on the othe hand has hair, clothes, and several bandages around the face. That's A LOT of updates that need to be made. It would be much easier to have a simpler character like Olimar.

Melee has given a base for the game and I'm sure that Melee's old engine may have been a base, but It's like trying to build a skyscraper out of parts for a house. You need A LOT more parts that may or may not fit perfectally with all of the old parts. I think that Melee may haver been the foundation for the game, but I doubt that it's a 50% old 50% new deal here.

Bottom line- Sheik isn't worth the effort. Sheik wasn't popular (at least for the right purposes) in Melee and putting him/her/it/potato in Brawl would degrade from the individuality that is Zelda. Sheik is the wilting flower on the Brawl Tree. You can go through all of the trouble of trying to get it to re-bloom, or you can prune it and let a better flower grow in it's place.

Characters that are put in smash can become popular because they are put in smash...it happens all the time...Hell, people didn't know who Pit was except for his cult following until he was put in smash

Shiek IS popular now, which is the point

 

[Phaazoid]

^^^^^^^^^^
just like marth, and it looks like sakurai won't remove any original movesets, he has put the IC in, and you would've sworn up and down that they wouldn't be in because they weren't popular enough, they'd had there short time in the sun.

(the IC remark was for jimmy)

 

[jimmysilverrims]

I d'know, Sheik just strikes me as a throwaway character. An addition to Zelda's character as almost... a cheap gimmick. Sheik, if he/she/it/potato were to get in Brawl he/she/it/potato would have been introduced along with Zelda. Keeping them apart makes no sense. Sheik isn't unlockable, even his/her's/it's/potato's trophie was gained alongside Zelda's. They can't be seperate identities seeing as they litterally are the same person. Sheik's prospects look really, really bleak. It's been months after Zelda was confirmed and there hasn't heven been hints to Sheik. Some may say that the medley points to an OoT character, I beg to differ. Did anyone think that perhaps they have OoT music simply because it was a kick-*** game? Sheik however, needs to go. He/she/it/potato was a secondary (alibeit pivotal) character from OoT. He/she/it/potato had his/her/it's/potato's time in the limelight and it's time for someone better to step in.

'Nuff said.

 

[Phaazoid]

no, if shiek had been put on, sakurai would've given away zelda's special moves.

sigh, we've all been mindgamed, who knows what sakurai has in store.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Only time will tell... only time will tell.

 

[Arteen]

The designing end certainly takes a significant amount of time. Almost all the moves are already planned out with appropriate animations, hitboxes, and approximate damage/knockback values (since they'll surely be tweaked a bit for Brawl). The characters already have a play style on which to base the Brawl version. The characters need only be rebalanced, instead of trying to come up with a balanced set of moves, range, damage, size, weight, traction, falling speed, etc from scratch. Since Melee's code is used as a base, previous characters can be implemented into Brawl with little hassle (i.e. the code already allows for a character to transform into another as in Zelda/Shiek, or for one character to follow another as in ICs). These unique aspects of the veteran characters don't have to be programmed from scratch. Even if the code needs to be rewritten, the programmers can base the reimplementation on the previous implementation. The blueprint for the character is already made, and I'm certain that the team spends a very significant amount of time on designing newcomers before actually modeling, animating, UVing, and programming them it.

 

[Dynamism]

I'm with jimmy on this but seeing how it's over...Zelda deserves a new SM. Chargable UpB, more control with the Dfire and chargable or holdable Nlove. Maybe Narus moved to DB so she can have Light Arrows or that (TP spoiler)

Spoiler

channeling sword that she sent the magic stuff through

 

[Wiseguy]

Greetings from Wiseguyland, where University junk continues to take up all my time.

Good news though: my 3rd party runnerup list is finally complete! I've got all my old suggestions for your viewing pleasure as well as my attempt at explaining why I don't think any more third party characters will make the cut.

Which brings me to my other announcement: if any of you know of any other character suggestions that I missed but you think are worth mentioning, simply PM me a picture with a description of the character and why they should get in Brawl. I'll post it under my runnersup list pronto.

You know, this may be really random and off topic (who hasn't been on this thread?), but I just had an interesting idea. Don't know if it's a good idea, but interesting nonetheless.

I have a proposed solution to the Sheik conundrum.

So, if I am not mistaken, most Sheik haters (good 'ol Wisey included) are opposed to Sheik's return for two reasons. One, Sheik's moveset is broken and needs fixing to be a fair fighter in Brawl. Two, Sheik is the OoT Zelda, not TP Zelda as has already been revealed for Brawl. Points both driven into our skulls so far. However, the Sheik fanatics argue that not only are no moveset changes necessary, but it doesn't matter which Zelda may turn into Sheik, Brawl is OOC with the Zelda timeline.

I think the best possible compromise for both sides of the argument would be to include OoT's Impa as a separate playable character. No, I'm not crazy, hear me out.

First of all, this would remove the nigh-used Zelda/Sheik transformation. Hardly anyone in Melee actually used both Zelda and Sheik, and it would open up Down B specials for both Zelda and Impa.

Storywise, she could accommodate Sheik's moveset just fine. After all, in OoT it's implied that Impa passed on her teachings to Zelda while Ganondorf was taking over Hyrule. And when it comes to the game mechanics, well, if she's exactly the same as Melee's Sheik, then she would please the Melee Sheik lovers (and must've been a very good teacher ). But if she uses a more balanced Sheik moveset, this would please those who loathe Sheik's brokenness and play on the fact that master and student will have slight differences in fighting style.

On top of that, Brawl's Zelda representation would be represented by arguably the best interpretation of a long-running Zelda character (hmm...decrepit nursemaid or shadowy desert ninja?). Plus, we know Impa's gender

So, am I crazy or does this actually intrigue anybody? Feedback welcome!

Hey, any alternative to having Sheik in Brawl is swell by me. (After years of playing against my Sheik maining buds, my hatred of the character is beyond healing...)

But I say that Impa is outdated. We need Impaz, the crazy cat lady from Twilight Princess!

 

[HulkingRage]

lucario?

 

[Wiseguy]

lucario?

Check out my runnersup list. He's there, and I think I give a decent explanation for why he might not make the cut.

 

[raphtmarqui]

Lol, i completely share ur feelings about black shadow. That is the worst character anyone has ever created.

 

[raphtmarqui]

BTW,Wiseguy, that animal crossing "interview" was confirmed 100% fake.

 

[Dynamism]

Either way, Smashkid for Brawl on Monday...

 

[Phaazoid]

either way, mii over smash kid any day.

 

[Dynamism]

You'd rather have an Avatar over an actual character?
Smashkid would actually be cool as well as unique. Mii would just be odd.

 

[Wiseguy]

BTW,Wiseguy, that animal crossing "interview" was confirmed 100% fake.

Fixed. Thanks raphtmarqui.

You'd rather have an Avatar over an actual character?
Smashkid would actually be cool as well as unique. Mii would just be odd.

I totally would. Miis are a zillion times cooler than the cabbage patch dolls we play as in Animal Crossing. Unfortunately, I can't imagine why Sakurai would have revealed Miis as non-playable avitars last week if he had a Mii moveset in the works.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Miis just have the zest that the AC character lacks. Actual customisation. And reletive newness. Miis are brand new and are the Wii personified. I really want Miis in, but sadly it's either Sakurai's mindgaming (once again) or he didn't touch upon Miis playability as a way to let it down gently. I hope for the former.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Miis just have the zest that the AC character lacks. Actual customisation. And reletive newness. Miis are brand new and are the Wii personified. I really want Miis in, but sadly it's either Sakurai's mindgaming (once again) or he didn't touch upon Miis playability as a way to let it down gently. I hope for the former.

Mii's have nothing on the AC Human, and look 10x worse.

 

[Dynamism]

Mii's have nothing on the AC Human, and look 10x worse.

nuff' said


OMG THAT'S THE FIRST TIME I EVER SAID NUFF SAID
Smashkid FTW

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Mii's have nothing on the AC Human, and look 10x worse.

Ahem? Did you not hear me when I said that Miis have actual customisability? That they are the personification for the Wii? That they've become a part of the Nintendo "Touch Generation" just as much as Nintendogs (Who are in Brawl) and Dr. K from Brain Age. What makes the AC's so better than Miis?

chirp

chirp

Well they're cute- oh wait... Well they do thing normal people do- oh, yeah... I guess they also can share you name- oh, jeez, this is tough.

I can't think up one, can you? That's what I thought.

'Nuff said.

P.S: Dynie, don't even try to be a nuff saider, your just not cool enough. It's my thing.

 

[Legolastom]

AC human = Random face + discrimination... No black people in Animal crossing.

But seriously I would prefer Mii's over AC humans anyday.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

AC human = Random face + discrimination... No black people in Animal crossing.

But seriously I would prefer Mii's over AC humans anyday.

True 'dat. Miis are symbolic, they are you, they are me. They are everybody and everyone. They are the world. And if you hate Miis you hate the world.

'Nuff said.

 

[Dynamism]

You won't be sayin that when Smashkid is owning you in Brawl...oh wait, you might

He can use many items that have never been used before, (do I have to name them?) and can do everything a Mii could do on top of that, (do I have to explain?) and look better. I'll come up with a Mii that looks like your mom and own you or would you rather fight a doll (a reason people like Geno btw) with a fire outfit and horns? Smashkid spews coolness, I don't know why a Mii would even be considered. That's just gross.

And you can customize them too...so what? An argument against balloon fighter was that he had nothing to go on, what's a Mii gonna do? Baseball? Ness/homerunbat, Bowl? ok that could work I guess...Tenis? Kinda lame, Box? How about Little Mac? Someone with actual significance and cool along with THAT'S WHAT HE DOES!

Smashkid has nothing going against em' and Miis have nothing for them.

 

[jimmysilverrims]

Wow Smashkid, as you call it, has a shovel, a fishing rod and a butterfly net. Wow, pretty heavy arsenal ther bub. One word. TANK. Let's see Smashkid get in a frickin' panzer.

Look better? And the Smash kid looks better? I think you need to get contacts or something because those things are ugly. Even if, as you say, the are lesss good looking Brawl can graphically update Miis with a simple Matrix, not even consisting of more than 20 numbers.

Smashkid was in one game. Wow and Miis have been in, let's count! Wii Sports, Wii Play, Madden 08, WarioWare: Smooth Moves, and METROID PRIME 3. Wow, I guess you really got me beat there with your lame Smashedkid /sarcasm

Bottom line: Miis rock more then AC people. Ask anyone (With more than 1/6th of a brain) and they'll tell you the same.

'Nuff said.

 

[Numa Dude]

Smashkid was in one game. Wow

Actually, smashkid as all you people are calling him for some reason has been in both animal crossing games and is correct me if I'm wrong in the ANIMAL CROSSING MOVIE.

and Miis have been in, let's count! Wii Sports, Wii Play, Madden 08, WarioWare: Smooth Moves, and METROID PRIME 3. Wow, I guess you really got me beat there with your lame Smashedkid /sarcasm

The only two of those you can really count are Wii sports and Wii play. The others are just pointless cameo appearencess.

Bottom line: Miis rock more then AC people. Ask anyone (With more than 1/6th of a brain) and they'll tell you the same.

Mii's are overrated crap. I like Mii's just as much as the next guy but they don't deserve to be playable. That is the biggest flaw in most peoples logic is that they always assume their favorite character HAS to be playable, they don't realize that the playable spots will only go to the most deserving characters and other popular choices for playable that don't deserve it will get the AT treatment.

 

[Legolastom]

You dont know what Mii's represent though... one of the biggest (Bar going 3-D) changes in Nintendo's history ever (Before games doesn't count...).

They represent: The Wii, The casual market, Nintendo's current stance in the gaming industry, The "Wii" series of games and not to mention all the cames and / or major appearances they will make in future games...

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Well, the Miis DO have quite a history with Nintendo. In fact, the idea of creating yourself has been around since the days for the NES, but was never pulled off. Nintendo finally did so, however, with the Wii. Just to state something that supports the Mii argument.

However, saying they would be a better character than the AC Human is bullsh-t. The AC Human would be way more unique with its array of items, all of the Mii could possibly do is perhaps have some moves based off Wiisports or some other Wii mini-game sh-t.