Premarital Sex

[|RK|]

Wonderful. Sadly, you did answer 3 with a sort of odd answer. You forget that this can have a terrible effect on other people, gambling. And others. Chain reaction, there. But I see where you're going, so I'll continue as planned:

1) Do you believe that high school students should have sex?
2) Should people risk consequences for a bit of fun? (skydiving and such aren't examples, as they are safer to an extent)
3) Shouldn't we tell people not to do harmful things? Not to force them, but tell them?
4) At what point in a relationship should a couple have sex?
5) How can one partner trust the other?

EDIT: 2001? If you have nothing to add to the debate, I kindly ask that you leave. I have noticed your posts, but if each argument can be countered by another, you get nowhere. Answering questions can lead a linear path to the end.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

However, if my arguments are able to loop things around full circle, does that help anything? Nope, it just means that the argument can't get anywhere.

THAT'S MY POINT!

You keep asking the same questions over and over again and don't listen to the opposition, and YOU are the one preventing us from getting anywhere.

You keep asking why there is fear in commitment, I keep responding, you ignore it, and it goes in a circle of ignorance. I'd call this disregarding explanations, wouldn't you?

 

[|RK|]

I am not disregarding explanations. I do listen to the opposition. If your arguments (which I did respond to) can be countered by an earlier point... anyways, that's why I find this question method better. I'll concede if all of my points are disproved.

 

[2001]

wonderful. Sadly, You Did Answer 3 With A Sort Of Odd Answer. You Forget That This Can Have A Terrible Effect On Other People, Gambling. And Others. Chain Reaction, There. But I See Where You're Going, So I'll Continue As Planned:

1) Do You Believe That High School Students Should Have Sex?
2) Should People Risk Consequences For A Bit Of Fun? (skydiving And Such Aren't Examples, As They Are Safer To An Extent)
3) Shouldn't We Tell People Not To Do Harmful Things? Not To Force Them, But Tell Them?
4) At What Point In A Relationship Should A Couple Have Sex?
5) How Can One Partner Trust The Other?

Edit: 2001? If You Have Nothing To Add To The Debate, I Kindly Ask That You Leave. I Have Noticed Your Posts, But If Each Argument Can Be Countered By Another, You Get Nowhere. Answering Questions Can Lead A Linear Path To The End.

Thats my point idiot. Everything can be countered but you are not countering them. you are just asking the same **** thing Over And Over.

edit: I didnt see that solid has already made my point.

 

[KrazyGlue]

1) Do you believe that high school students should have sex?
2) Should people risk consequences for a bit of fun? (skydiving and such aren't examples, as they are safer to an extent)
3) Shouldn't we tell people not to do harmful things? Not to force them, but tell them?
4) At what point in a relationship should a couple have sex?
5) How can one partner trust the other?

1 and 3. You're focusing on kids under 18 here. For adults, they shouldn't have to be told about the consequences. They're supposed to be old and mature enough to make educated decisions. That's why drinking and smoking are legal for them (even though these are often much worse to the participants than premarital sex).


2. Hey, it's their decision. If they don't like the consequences, then they shouldn't have had premarital sex. It's not our job to make rules about what people do for fun when it doesn't harm anyone except the participants.


4. Whenever both of them feel comfortable to do so.


5. What do you mean? If they both want to participate, then what's wrong with it? And it's their choice to participate, so they should be aware of possible consequences.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

1) Do you believe that high school students should have sex?

If they're in a serious relationship, sure.

2) Should people risk consequences for a bit of fun? (skydiving and such aren't examples, as they are safer to an extent)

It happens all the time. STDs can be contracted after marriage too, you make it seem like premarital sex is the only thing that can spread STDs.

3) Shouldn't we tell people not to do harmful things? Not to force them, but tell them?

That depends what you mean by harmful. Is sex harmful? Not necessarily.
Drugs, violence, etc. yeah.

4) At what point in a relationship should a couple have sex?

When they love each other and have been together for a long enough time that they want to, it can't be defined by a certain length of time, it differs.

5) How can one partner trust the other?

When people fall in love they develop a lot of trust between them, that's one of the things that comes with love...

Fine, I answered your questions.

 

[|RK|]

1) Alright, so we're focusing on adults, right?
2) What if one trusts the other, but the other doesn't care and is using the other?

(I get your point now, just supplemental questions.)

 

[KrazyGlue]

1) Alright, so we're focusing on adults, right?
2) What if one trusts the other, but the other doesn't care and is using the other?

(I get your point now, just supplemental questions.)

1. Yes.

2. If the other partner "uses" them (**** is what you are talking about, I assume) then they will face consequences. The second person is an unfortunate victim, but this has nothing to do with normal sex. This is a crime. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say; I'm not sure I worded it well...

EDIT: What I mean (as an alternate explanation) is that if some people "use" their partners, they are criminals. That does not make premarital sex as a whole wrong. It only makes that one person bad.

 

[Lixivium]

2) What if one trusts the other, but the other doesn't care and is using the other?

(I get your point now, just supplemental questions.)

This is not a relevant argument unless you can come up with some reliable figures about how many people in the U.S., having premarital sex, are being used unknowingly and sustaining risk of emotional trauma.

It could be a valid argument that that PARTICULAR couple shouldn't have pre-marital sex, but it's not a valid argument that COUPLES shouldn't have pre-marital sex.

 

[|RK|]

Okay, then. This still leaves me where I say, you still shouldn't do it, but now it's a matter of moral opinion. I'd discourage people, but hey, if they know what they're doing, oh well.

The religious side... well, that's still the fact that there should be no sex before marriage. However, with the proper reasons... hm. We must also remember that people got married much younger back then, in response to an early post of RDK's.

Well, that's that then. I suppose you guys win, so long as the people don't have a long standing record of too many girlfriends and sex. So, I suppose I'm wrong. Now to go create a topic where religion can't be applied.

EDIT: Oh, they should still get married, considering that would have a more recognized commitment, and financial benefits. Hold on.

 

[2001]

You pretty much need trust to have sex at anytime. If you have sex with somebody, you probably trust that that person doesn't have a sort of full blown STD right?

Also, to everyone, please keep religion out of this. It's okay if you mention your morals and credit your religion for them, but please don't start discussing ideas in certain religions. It will just get off topic and eventually out of hand.

 

[|RK|]

Here we are!
http://www.cracked.com/article_17063_5-reasons-being-single-sucks-even-more-than-you-thought.html

So yeah, even if they have sex first, they should still get married, unless they just can't afford it.

Oh, and 2001, shut your... jkjk
But yeah, religion is really the reason for morals. You can never bring morals into reasons for an argument.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Okay, then. This still leaves me where I say, you still shouldn't do it, but now it's a matter of moral opinion. I'd discourage people, but hey, if they know what they're doing, oh well.

The religious side...

Well, that's that then. I suppose you guys win, so long as the people don't have a long standing record of too many girlfriends and sex. So, I suppose I'm wrong. Now to go create a topic where religion can't be applied.

Nevermind.

I lol'ed at that site. That source is definitely reliable.

 

[|RK|]

Edited my post above Solid.

Oh, and what I said only applies to >18 year olds.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Here we are!
http://www.cracked.com/article_17063_5-reasons-being-single-sucks-even-more-than-you-thought.html

So yeah, even if they have sex first, they should still get married, unless they just can't afford it.

Oh, and 2001, shut your... jkjk
But yeah, religion is really the reason for morals. You can never bring morals into reasons for an argument.

And not everyone follows your religion. So it can't be applied to general morals. But, that's a different discussion.

Whatever they do after sex is their choice.

It's hard to argue morals, so I doubt this will go anywhere.

 

[RDK]

The religious side... well, that's still the fact that there should be no sex before marriage. However, with the proper reasons... hm. We must also remember that people got married much younger back then, in response to an early post of RDK's.

In all fairness, people also didn't live to be 70, 80, 90 like they do today. Often times you were considered lucky if you made it to 40.

 

[|RK|]

I suppose...

 

[KevinM]

Uh-huh, and what about the actual benefits of marriage? After reading so many FMLs, and that thing with Alfie Patten, I'm pretty sure that 6 months doesn't mean much. An actual relationship means much more. It's honestly America and the rest of the world these days. So much things that are perceived as right, when there's no love involved. If you actually love the person, then WHY aren't you married? And who the heck knows whether a relationship is serious or not anymore?

Did you honestly just use as a source for your argument fmylife.com?

Marriage is such a huge commitment, there are a multitude of reasons why people might not be married. I have a friend that has been with the same girl for four years, he's most assuredly had sex with her, but is his relationship not serious enough for you?

I don't think at your age you have any idea of the implications and financial burdens a marriage can create, you're not just providing for yourself anymore, but you're providing for a family, and at this point you most likely have a house together, joint bank account and a multitude of other new things going on.

There are so many things going on that surround a marriage that I can't see how you're arguing that marriage SHOULD happen.

On another point, Sex is fun. It's clear you don't have much experience with the subject, perhaps you are younger or maybe you are more firm in a religious background but in this day and age, Sex isn't NEARLY as taboo as it was years and years ago. Sex is a wonderful thing, it's a great connection between to people, casual sex shouldn't be discouraged if both people are consensual and realize the implications of what they're doing.

Arguments such as, well they might not know its safe are completely invalid, I don't think age is a factor in knowing what to do and how to keep safe, We've had condoms thrust in our face since 13.

Also RK not to criticize but using sites such as

cracked.com
and
Fmylife.com

are not nearly sufficient enough to base an argument off of.

edit: I'll humor your five question thing.

Wonderful. Sadly, you did answer 3 with a sort of odd answer. You forget that this can have a terrible effect on other people, gambling. And others. Chain reaction, there. But I see where you're going, so I'll continue as planned:

1) Do you believe that high school students should have sex?
2) Should people risk consequences for a bit of fun? (skydiving and such aren't examples, as they are safer to an extent)
3) Shouldn't we tell people not to do harmful things? Not to force them, but tell them?
4) At what point in a relationship should a couple have sex?
5) How can one partner trust the other?

1. I believe that high school students are old enough to engage in intercourse responsibly yes.
2. How is skydiving safer? It's a person's choice to risk consequence for fun, this isn't the thought police they can do what they want, however saying skydiving is safer show's how truly biased you are.
3. Again showing you how biased you are, do we have to tell every person not to stab themselves in the face as well? We don't have to tell people but we can teach them how to handle things safely, be it their own penis or a blade.
4. Whenever they feel comfortable enough to do so.
5. That's such a subjective question that it's not even worth giving the time of day or a chloroform rag to.

Your bias is blinding you from obvious points.

 

[RDK]

You guys do realize this is the Proving Grounds, right? Didn't you read CK's notice?

 

[Zero Beat]

I messaged Timbers about it, but Kevin was already in.

I addition to Kev's post, I was in the same situation that his friend is in. Sex does not make a relationship, nor does a relationship revolve around sex, but as a result of sex, in my case, it helped further the bonding and trust that was already there. I felt like there was no need to "marry" her, it's not like it was going to give me a huge boost in love. I felt married already, and it worked great while it lasted(6 years). No regrets whatsoever.

This topic resembles the biggest TRAP in debates up to date:-p, MORALS. What a horrible thing to discuss.-_-

 

[|RK|]

Like I said. So unless there is real love and the people involved are over 18, or better yet intelligent enough to pick a good partner and know what they're doing (just saw a presentation today. You DON'T want Herpes) and get the partner checked out, then I suppose it's slightly okay if not immoral. However, marriage is still a good thing. Whether or not the article is cracked, it IS true enough. Marriage is better. And I can guarantee that if the recession keeps going as it is or get worse, more and more people will get married, as it is a better choice. One couple, according to Yahoo, divorced, but still live together since divorce is such an unwise financial decision. That and the amount of searches on eHarmony.com apparently have increased on days the stock market dipped.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Your sources aren't credible.

Yahoo? FML?

 

[|RK|]

Yahoo News isn't credible? Didn't know that. I suppose they just lie to us and post up articles for nothing.

FML, on the other hand... I stopped using that shtick a while back.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Regardless of whether your sources are credible, whether or not getting married is always better is a matter of opinion. Relationships are complex and can't be easily diagnosed as "true love" or not just by simple stats such as how long the people have been together.

Also, just because two people love each other and don't get married doesn't mean they are afraid to commit. There are plenty of complex factors to determine when making such a big commitment; some people love each other but just aren't ready to marry yet.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Oh well you didn't specify that it was Yahoo news, I don't know Yahoo too well I though it was just something you read, my bad.

 

[Miggz]

Wonderful. Sadly, you did answer 3 with a sort of odd answer. You forget that this can have a terrible effect on other people, gambling. And others. Chain reaction, there. But I see where you're going, so I'll continue as planned:

1) Do you believe that high school students should have sex?
2) Should people risk consequences for a bit of fun? (skydiving and such aren't examples, as they are safer to an extent)
3) Shouldn't we tell people not to do harmful things? Not to force them, but tell them?
4) At what point in a relationship should a couple have sex?
5) How can one partner trust the other?
\

1. I don't think so, no. Why? Simply because there is always the chance of pregnancy. Sure, they may start of with protection, but some couples feel better "connected" without it. Then when the girl gets pregnant, both of them have to drop out because they cant keep up with their school work. High school students should be focused on passing their classes/studies/graduation. The way things are nowadays, you can't get very far without college, so it would be a real shame if they can't even finish high school. But that's my opinion.

2. Everything we do in life has consequences. Life is one big risk. My point is, if the person has considered all the possible risks of their behavior AND considered if they can actually handle the consequences after the fact, then by all means, go for it. Smart individuals would often stop after considering the risks.

3.) People, as a whole, already know about the harmful things. The problem is, they all have that "it can't happen to me" mentality.

4. In my opinion, I'd say within the college saga, preferably towards the end. One thing I guarantee...when you leave high school and step into college, your mentality changes..a lot. You become so much more aware of things a high school student couldn't even begin to comprehend. At the college level, students "should" have a more logical way of approaching these kinds of things.

5. Simply by experience. That is why you should get to know the person more. In my opinion, if partner A asks partner B to take a STD test or whatever, then there shouldn't be a problem. When to partners can make these kinds of crucial decisions with ease, then you know trust is there.