Prejudices aside, if a few characters need to be cut who will they be?

[Smash G]

What the crap is this about "we already know the 3DS can't handle Transformation characters"?

First off, where the heck do you people get your information? It's really TERRIBLE information. The tech behind the 3DS is more powerful than the GameCube (don't compare numbers side by side, it's more complicated than that! 3DS will win in just about every single contest). There's no way in Super Wario World that the 3DS cannot handle what the GameCube could. Heck, the N64 could handle character transformations! Where are you people getting your information? Character Transformations are not something that is hugely demanding and BELIEVE them when they say they got rid of them for other reasons.

 

[VictoriaYr]

Honestly, I'm surprised at how large people forecast the roster is going to be. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around a 40+ character roster, which means 11 characters left to be unveiled at most...

I would say...

and and probably all make it, and regretfully probably will too...
or but not both, same as... and , one of these is undoubtedly getting cut.
And most definitely either or , because honestly... both is not happening, and in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if neither of them made it in. We've already got a lot of Pokemon in this game.
I really don't see either or coming back, certainly not both.
I'm thinking that is most likely cut to make room for a Fire Emblem Awakening character.
In the case of , he doesn't have a really strong Nintendo presence... compared to Sonic and Mega Man. Really unsure about but it seems 50/50 to me.

Of just this pool, I wouldn't be surprised if only 6 of them made it. I really like how creative Sakurai is treating this roster and I think that is the most telling aspect of it all. People didn't like Wii Fit Trainer at first, but then it grew on them. I mean, Greninja is really a nobody (unless you look for reasons that make him relevant...) but Sakurai probably just saw him and thought, "that'd make a cool fighter". And it's also a surprise few people saw coming. I am skeptical that Original 12's are safe, but then again it seems that I have less optimism than most forecasters.

 

[soviet prince]

pokemon is getting 6 reps I am calling it now,

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Honestly, I'm surprised at how large people forecast the roster is going to be. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around a 40+ character roster, which means 11 characters left to be unveiled at most...

I would say...

and and probably all make it, and regretfully probably will too...
or but not both, same as... and , one of these is undoubtedly getting cut.
And most definitely either or , because honestly... both is not happening, and in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if neither of them made it in. We've already got a lot of Pokemon in this game.
I really don't see either or coming back, certainly not both.
I'm thinking that is most likely cut to make room for a Fire Emblem Awakening character.
In the case of , he doesn't have a really strong Nintendo presence... compared to Sonic and Mega Man. Really unsure about but it seems 50/50 to me.

Of just this pool, I wouldn't be surprised if only 6 of them made it. I really like how creative Sakurai is treating this roster and I think that is the most telling aspect of it all. People didn't like Wii Fit Trainer at first, but then it grew on them. I mean, Greninja is really a nobody (unless you look for reasons that make him relevant...) but Sakurai probably just saw him and thought, "that'd make a cool fighter". And it's also a surprise few people saw coming. I am skeptical that Original 12's are safe, but then again it seems that I have less optimism than most forecasters.

No offense, but this is really pessimistic.

 

[No Control]

I think people overrate characters' chances of returning. People saying stuff like "Lucas and Wolf aren't logical cuts" are overlooking the fact that Sakurai cut Mewtwo, an entirely original character, from Brawl! People assume too much and then everyone will be surprised when the roster is totally different to what they're expecting. I don't mind cuts because I don't want Brawl 2.0.

In terms of likelihood to stay I'd say:

S tier (~100% - anybody who thinks these'll be cut are mad)
Wario
Meta Knight
Captain Falcon

A tier (95-99% - pretty much guaranteed to return but very small chance of cut)
Ganondorf (could get cut for Ghirahim or another enemy, once again to reiterate before people jump on me this is like a 1% chance of happening)
Ness (if one Mother character gets cut, which I think is pretty likely and necessary to streamline the roster, it will almost definitely be Lucas, but you never know)
Mr. Game & Watch (lack of significance/popularity)
Ice Climbers (lack of significance/popularity)

B tier (~75% - cut feasibly be cut but will probably be in)
Jigglypuff (lack of significance/popularity)
R.O.B. (poor moveset in Brawl and obscure nature of character mean few would miss him, especially in terms of casual players)
Falco (one Star Fox cut is fairly likely, but I'd say he's unfortunately more likely to stay than Wolf)
Mewtwo (popularity seems too much for it not to be in but this is Sakurai and he may feel 6 Pokemo n characters is too many)

C tier (~50% - could go either way)
Wolf (see Falco - more likely to be cut than him, unfortunately)
Lucas (see Ness - a sensible cut IMO, but I thought the same of Toon Link...)
Ike (Think it's pretty much 50/50 between him and Chrom, and doubt all three blue-haired swordsmen will make it)
Snake (not looking good for him is it? Third-party, not Nintendo-related, could have been a one-off deal. The list goes on really)

D tier (~10% - very unlikely)
All other cut Melee veterans

 

[Darkfur]

B tier (~75% - cut feasibly be cut but will probably be in)
Jigglypuff (lack of significance/popularity)

Nice List. I don't know if I agree with this though. Jiggles Mcpuff, if I remember correctly, has survived long enough to become relevant again. She was the first classic pokemon revealed to be retyped to the New Fairy type, I believe. That alone is significant. It opens up new move set possibilities, including a new Final Smash option. I think she is far more likely to be returning than many think.

 

[Z25]

I can understand why people think Jigglypuff would be cut, him being among the original twelve is the only thing keeping him in. Either Wolf or Falco is going, preferably Falco. 3 reps from a series who's past two entries have been a remake and a so-so game just isn't right. R.O.B. is strange, I can't see people being happy or upset either way. He's just sort of there.

That is reason enough to keep her but now she is now being prompted heavily as a fairy type and mascot. So he is staying. No one from melee will leave, it's similar to the original 12 rule, and Wolf is staying as I bought up before. Fe awakening was a huge success so fire emblem can easily have 3 reps especially since sakurai gave them 2 reps at a time when almost no one knew who they were. r.O.B. I can agree on, so that is a reason I could see him stay as well.

 

[slicesabre]

I've always been of mind Ike could be cut in favor of Chrom sense Awakening is the Fire Emblem of the moment, Awakening was hugely popular and Chrom is the Lord character of Awakening.

In fact I want Ike cut in favor of Chrom.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I think someone should seriously compare Wolf's and Ike's chances,
because I think that's what we're down to at the moment.

 

[ChikoLad]

You can't really compare chances, not a lot of this logic has definitive proof behind it.

The only veterans I think are definitive shoo-ins are the Smash 64 veterans, Mr. Game & Watch, Wario, Meta Knight and Ganondorf. Everyone else is just as up in the air as each other.

The Smash 64 veterans are not leaving the series. I don't think they will be revealed pre-release because apart from Captain Falcon and Ness in Melee, they've traditionally been unlockable. Plus, there would be outrage if anyone of them were removed. Especially Captain Falcon. I bet they were some of the first characters to be worked on, because Sakurai has three previous games of experience with them, so why wouldn't he tackle them first? And Luigi was revealed early for the Year of Luigi, and there is no special reason for these guys to be revealed early. And if making Yoshi stand upright was a reason to hold off on revealing him for so long, then possibly changes to the remaining Smash 64 veterans are being made, such as incorporating Jigglypuff's fairy typing.

The rest are just iconic and are not the sort of characters you would remove, Ganondorf, regardless of his clone status, is a huge part of the Zelda franchise. THe Triforce isn't complete without him, after all. That, and Link and Zelda have their designs based on Twilight Princess, so he'd mesh right in. And Wario already has been teased, with he "W" symbol appearing next to Waluigi and Ashley in the Assist Trophy showcase. Game & Watch is probably one of the easiest characters to implement (hardly any frames of animation), and is one of the most historically relevant characters, so there is no excuse to cut him. And Meta Knight is from Sakurai's baby franchise. We may not get any newcomers from Kirby, but there is no reason to believe Meta Knight will be cut.

Other than that, not a lot of logical deductions can be made.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

You can't really compare chances, not a lot of this logic has definitive proof behind it.

The only veterans I think are definitive shoo-ins are the Smash 64 veterans, Mr. Game & Watch, Wario, Meta Knight and Ganondorf. Everyone else is just as up in the air as each other.

I'd add Falco and Ice Climbers to that list, but yeah basically.

 

[ManicRaider]

Call me crazy but I don't want anyone to be cut. I want all past characters to be playable by either unlocking them or dlc. But that's just wishful thinking.

 

[SpeedBoost]

100% Chance of returning: (Staple to SSB) (Sakurai teased about them) (Hinted at MANY times) (On the whiteboard picture posted during development) (Same as G&W, and Sakurai made him)

90%-99% Chance of returning: (You can't have Legend of Zelda without Ganondorf, it's like having Mario without Bowser) (Around since 64, important Earthbound Character)

71%-89%: (Is a clone, but a fan favorite in Smash and Star Fox, also been around since Melee) (Been around since 64, but isn't really a fan favorite and is least likely of original 12 to return, has fairy type as well but does not use it well)

60% and below: (Unique character. but very odd choice, not as popular as others) (Did not have the "Fire Emblem Effect" when putting him in Smash, Face of Mother 3 though) (Is less of a clone to fox compared to falco, but he is new to Smash so he would not be missed as much as falco, Main bad guy of Star Fox though) (Not really popular anymore and is overshadowed by Chrom) (3rd Party, and Kojima said Snake was not asked to be in Smash4. could be telling a lie though) (Most likely to return out of SSBM cut characters, Fans really want him to return and Sakurai stated interest in making him return, but it will be a fight between him and Jigglypuff for that final slot I don't think there will be 6 pokemon slots)

Little to No chance: (No transformations, Charizard confirmed by himself) (All not important, no point in returning as characters)

 

[Renji64]

Lucas,Rob,Ivy,Squirtle,Ike,Snake shall be cut.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

Snake, Ivy and Squirtle are almost certainly cut. Rob is also a possible cut candidate. Wolf, Lucas and Ike are in the danger zone, but they might return. Everyone else (besides Melee characters) are sure to return. Mewtwo is a wild card, he has a following and was supposed to return in Brawl but time constrains forced him to be cut, so he could always return. And I know that means a bit of a Pokemon overload, but Sakurai cares more about characters being fun to play rather than how many reps certain franchises have.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'd add Falco and Ice Climbers to that list, but yeah basically.

Only reason I didn't include Ice Climbers was because Sakurai has expressed difficulty with implementing them which I think is more significant than a tease. I still think they are likely, but because Sakurai expressed difficulty with getting them to work on 3DS, I can't say they are shoo-ins.

And I only doubt Falco because if Sakurai had to choose between Falco and Wolf, he'd probably pick Wolf as he is more distinct from Fox, and Sakurai wants to cut down on clones as much as possible. We have Toon Link, but I feel he deserves a place due to being so iconic, and representing a sub series of the Zelda franchise (I do wish he wasn't a clone though, as there is no reason for him to be).

 

[Wanderer from Roseyard]

Only reason I didn't include Ice Climbers was because Sakurai has expressed difficulty with implementing them which I think is more significant than a tease. I still think they are likely, but because Sakurai expressed difficulty with getting them to work on 3DS, I can't say they are shoo-ins.

And I only doubt Falco because if Sakurai had to choose between Falco and Wolf, he'd probably pick Wolf as he is more distinct from Fox, and Sakurai wants to cut down on clones as much as possible. We have Toon Link, but I feel he deserves a place due to being so iconic, and representing a sub series of the Zelda franchise (I do wish he wasn't a clone though, as there is no reason for him to be).

If you're referring to this article, it was actually the interviewer who mentioned the Ice Climbers specifically. "Multiple character combatants" could also refer to Rosalina and Luma, Olimar and the Pikmin, Dedede's minions who waddle around the stage, and transforming characters; and we've seen the solutions to all of those problems pay off so far.

I'm confident the Ice Climbers are working unscathed. Since Popo and Nana share so many assets, they take up less total memory than Rosalina and Luma probably do.

 

[ChikoLad]

If you're referring to this article, it was actually the interviewer who mentioned the Ice Climbers specifically. "Multiple character combatants" could also refer to Rosalina and Luma, Olimar and the Pikmin, Dedede's minions who waddle around the stage, and transforming characters; and we've seen the solutions to all of those problems pay off so far.

I'm confident the Ice Climbers are working unscathed. Since Popo and Nana share so many assets, they take up less total memory than Rosalina and Luma probably do.

Actually:

What Nintendo character would I want added? (A mob of seven Bowser's Koopalings, which prompted Sakurai to caution the 3DS's limits with fighters like the Ice Climbers.)

Considering the interviewer was suggesting a team of 7 characters in one slot, the mention of Ice Climbers here is actually Sakurai. Because if it wasn't, the interviewer wouldn't have mentioned them, as it would be obvious that 7 characters in 1 is too much to anyone reading, leaving no need to mention that. This is actually Sakurai cautioning him that even the Ice Climbers are a problematic duo, let alone the Koopaling mob.

This isn't the only article to mention it though, it's one of the things Sakurai made sure to mention in a few interviews.

Olimar and Rosalina's partners use very, very simple models and animations, and in the case of Olimar, the Pikmin don't have movesets. The Ice Climbers are literally two full blown characters with complex animations in one, not to mention each of them can spawn projectiles. Playing a four player match with all Ice Climbers in Melee even caused slowdown.

Again, I still think they have a chance, but room for doubt exists solely because of 3DS limitations.

 

[Lautsuu~]

100% - , ,

90%-99% - , , , , ,

70%-80% - , , ,

60% - ,

Most definitely getting cut - , ,

Might be in, might not be -

I really hope Snake, Ike, Roy and Mewtwo get in, as well as Falco, Ice Climbers, Ness, Lucas, and Captain Falcon. Oh, and Meta Knight.

 

[ProjectAngel]

O12:
: Was kinda low priority during Brawl's development, though this was mostly due to Sonic's late inclusion- same with TL and Wolf, as well as "The Forbidden 7." Gamefreak has been pushing the newly-added Fairy type lately, with Sylveon, Marill, Gardevoir, Xerneas, and most importantly, Jigglypuff, being the first Fairy-type Pokemon to be confirmed for X and Y. With the Fairy-type push, Jiggs may still have a shot at getting in.

: Falcon owes it to Smash for his popularity and recognition of the F-Zero franchise. He stays.

: ^Same reason as above. Mother/Earthbound earned quite a large following sometime after Ness's inclusion in Smash 64.

Melee:

: Ganon's almost always been the big bad in the Legend of Zelda games- he completes the Zelda trinity of main characters and has had a major hand in the games he's in. He'll be back, though hopefully with a sufficient moveset revamp.

: G&W represents a major piece of Nintendo's history. He stays.

: At this point in time, Sakurai and his team will have worked through any technical problems on the 3DS concerning these little guys. I'm sure the Ice Climbers will make their appearance soon- they're too unique to leave out.

: He was nearly put in Brawl. Since that time, Mewtwo has gained renewed popularity and relevance thanks to X and Y, as well as an anime special showing off the first-ever Mega Evolution. He is one of the most wanted veterans to return- not only that, he remains the only legendary Pokemon to be playable in Smash. He'll be coming back- Sakurai can't ignore his inclusion for long.

: Can't say, honestly. Falco was popular enough to return for Brawl, and Star Fox could use more representation. We'll see what the future holds for Falco.

: Leave them out. I know Roy's popular due to Project M and all, but we can do without him also.

Brawl:

: Due to Charizard being a separate character now, Squirtle and Ivysaur's chances of returning have been called into question. That and Charizard's popularity has superseded theirs. I, personally, don't think they'll be returning, but you never know.

: Wario has established himself as a unique character in Smash, and he has major roles to play in Mario spin-offs as well as the Wario Land and WarioWare franchises. He's staying.

: A popular notion going around is that Meta Knight is Sakurai's favorite character. Add that to the fact that he's had many major roles in the Kirby series and he's pretty much a lock. He may be needing some adjustments though, seeing as how MK has been sitting at the very tippy-top of Brawl's tier list.

: Snake only got in thanks to Kojima's constant begging. Due to him mostly being associated with Sony, as well is Nintendo not taking kindly to his inclusion in Smash, Snake may very well miss this installment. Now, there is reasoning that Snake had a game on the 3DS, but even that may not matter.

: Some want Ike to stay, some what him gone in favor of Chrom or Lucina, FE's newest Lords. While Ike did get a substantial amount of story time in Awakening, no one truly knows what his fate may be. To this day, he remains one of Fire Emblems most popular Lords. Who knows?

: It's the same situation with Falco, thou Wolf did get lower priority in Brawl's development. We'll see what happens.

: Who takes top priority within the Mother franchise's representation these days? Ness or Lucas? Though Lucas has been proven to be quite a different beast from Ness, some people don't see him returning. Mother 3 has yet to be released outside of Japan despite there being a fan translation of the game running around. Lucas's fate remains in question.

: Some don't see much value in ROB. A little known fact is that ROB holds the distinction of being the first and only playable real-world peripheral- that, and ROB was created to rescue the video game industry in the early 80's. He's made appearances in a few games since then, but who's to speak about ROB's inclusion in the new Smash?

In short:

Definite inclusion:

In question:

Definite cut:

 

[Ryuuma]

Let me state this again: Mewtwo's chances were never dependent on another Pokemon rep, namely Greninja, getting in.

First of all, Mario Fanchise have only 5 rep. Pokemon Already have 4 reps and unless they introduce another mushroom character, pokemon will have just one more rep. And between mewtwo and jigglypuff, jiggly chances are way bigger. Jigglypuff is a O12 and appeared in every single Smash Bros, jigglypuff have a original and unique moveset and was a very good character in melee. Mewtwo was a awful character in Melle, and was cut off and replaced by Lucario due his terrible moveset.

And lets be honests, jigglypuff have more potential to be a unique chracter with a diferent moveset while mewtwo would just be redundant, a huddle of moves used in other fighters, even his potential final smash sound redundant now, with Mega CharizardX and Mega Lucario.

mewtwo only chances are a new Mario add, because that implies the possibility of a 6th pokemon slot. Cause de 5th one is for Jigglypuff.

 

[Ryuuma]

You can't really compare chances, not a lot of this logic has definitive proof behind it.

The only veterans I think are definitive shoo-ins are the Smash 64 veterans, Mr. Game & Watch, Wario, Meta Knight and Ganondorf. Everyone else is just as up in the air as each other.

The Smash 64 veterans are not leaving the series. I don't think they will be revealed pre-release because apart from Captain Falcon and Ness in Melee, they've traditionally been unlockable. Plus, there would be outrage if anyone of them were removed. Especially Captain Falcon. I bet they were some of the first characters to be worked on, because Sakurai has three previous games of experience with them, so why wouldn't he tackle them first? And Luigi was revealed early for the Year of Luigi, and there is no special reason for these guys to be revealed early. And if making Yoshi stand upright was a reason to hold off on revealing him for so long, then possibly changes to the remaining Smash 64 veterans are being made, such as incorporating Jigglypuff's fairy typing.

The rest are just iconic and are not the sort of characters you would remove, Ganondorf, regardless of his clone status, is a huge part of the Zelda franchise. THe Triforce isn't complete without him, after all. That, and Link and Zelda have their designs based on Twilight Princess, so he'd mesh right in. And Wario already has been teased, with he "W" symbol appearing next to Waluigi and Ashley in the Assist Trophy showcase. Game & Watch is probably one of the easiest characters to implement (hardly any frames of animation), and is one of the most historically relevant characters, so there is no excuse to cut him. And Meta Knight is from Sakurai's baby franchise. We may not get any newcomers from Kirby, but there is no reason to believe Meta Knight will be cut.

Other than that, not a lot of logical deductions can be made.

Totally Agree With you.
I would only add Ice Climbers in the list due polar bear in smash run and iconic importance in the Series.

 

[ProjectAngel]

First of all, Mario Fanchise have only 5 rep. Pokemon Already have 4 reps and unless they introduce another mushroom character, pokemon will have just one more rep. And between mewtwo and jigglypuff, jiggly chances are way bigger. Jigglypuff is a O12 and appeared in every single Smash Bros, jigglypuff have a original and unique moveset and was a very good character in melee. Mewtwo was a awful character in Melle, and was cut off and replaced by Lucario due his terrible moveset.

And lets be honests, jigglypuff have more potential to be a unique chracter with a diferent moveset while mewtwo would just be redundant, a huddle of moves used in other fighters, even his potential final smash sound redundant now, with Mega CharizardX and Mega Lucario.

mewtwo only chances are a new Mario add, because that implies the possibility of a 6th pokemon slot. Cause de 5th one is for Jigglypuff.

Since when has the amount of Pokemon reps been dependent on the amount of reps another major franchise has had? Your logic is completely wrong.

 

[Ryuuma]

Since when has the amount of Pokemon reps been dependent on the amount of reps another major franchise has had? Your logic is completely wrong.

Since ever, of course this have logic! Mario is nintendo biggest franchise and in any smash bros it have less slots than other franchises, and Brawl is a perfect exemple of this, Mewtwo was the only no clone cut of from melee to Brawl! He could perfectly fit in Brawl, but it will make pokemon have more reps(SLOTS) than Mario. Zelda always have a potentical minor character from a game of the moment, but they never put it on due the number os Slots compared to Mario Why you think Midna and Mewtwo weren't characters in Brawl?

Besides, I showed plenty of other factors that give Jigglypuff preference compared to Mewtwo.

 

[Richard Nixon]

Since ever, of course this have logic! Mario is nintendo biggest franchise and in any smash bros it have less slots than other franchises, and Brawl is a perfect exemple of this, Mewtwo was the only no clone cut of from melee to Brawl! He could perfectly fit in Brawl, but it will make pokemon have more reps(SLOTS) than Mario. Zelda always have a potentical minor character from a game of the moment, but they never put it on due the number os Slots compared to Mario Why you think Midna and Mewtwo weren't characters in Brawl?

Besides, I showed plenty of other factors that give Jigglypuff preference compared to Mewtwo.

Mewtwo was the most complete of Brawl's Forbidden 7, suggesting that he was very much planned to be in Brawl's roster and only cut due to time constraints. Not to mention, Sakurai's said that he treats transformation characters as if they count separately, meaning Pokemon Trainer may as well have been three. In Brawl, Pokemon had 6 characters (with a seventh well into development!) while Mario had only 4.

That said, Pokemon can certainly get away with having 6 slots in Smash 4 regardless of how many slots Mario gets, but I could also see it being limited to 5, for the sake of keeping representation tighter and more focused or simply to make room for another franchise. Mewtwo and Jigglypuff both have a fair chance at making it... though if it comes down to a decision between the two of them, I honestly agree that Jigglypuff's probably got the upper hand. She's taken priority over Mewtwo in the past, multiple times if I'm not mistaken. Not to mention, as stated, Mega Evolution is the entire reason Mewtwo is relevant again, and that mechanic is already being showcased by two other Pokemon. But who knows... Jiggs' low priority in Brawl may have kind of proven that she isn't as immune as most people think.

On the more broad subject of cuts in general, I think the characters potentially at risk are Snake, Ike, Wolf, Lucas, ROB, and Jigglypuff. I won't attempt to rate them in terms of who's more or less likely to go, though, because there's quite frankly very little to go off of. The only cuts we've seen so far are Squirtle and Ivysaur, and those seemingly happened more because of the decision to remove transformations than anything else. Charizard is popular enough to hold a spot on the roster by himself, but the other two can't really compete with newly-relevant Mewtwo, three-time-vet Jigglypuff, and mandatory-Gen-6-rep Greninja. I see the loss of Squirtle and Ivysaur as more of a side effect to the loss of transformations than a deliberate "hey let's cut these guys because they're irrelevant / a waste of roster space / whatever." And Brawl's roster simply doesn't have Melee's abundance of cheap uninspired clone characters to scrape away. For all we know, Pokemon Trainer's two remaining Pokemon could be the only cuts we see - or, also for all we know, four or five characters could be axed. I'm still hoping for minimal cuts, myself.

 

[ChikoLad]

Pokémon may be younger than Mario and the be beaten in sales by Mario, but Pokémon only has fewer sales because the games haven't been around as long, and the big releases are much less frequent in Pokémon. It's as popular as Mario though, arguably more so, considering the cultural influence.

And since Pokémon has much more interesting characters left (Rosalina is the last Mario character that really deserved to be put in the game besides Bowser Jr., but he should be saved for next game. Unless we want to look at Mario RPG characters), it definitely deserves to have the most representation on the roster. The series is a gold mine for popular and interesting fighters, Mario has nobody really left.

 

[Eight Melodies]

I could see Pokemon having more characters than Mario because it has hundreds of times more character choices than Mario does.

 

[Ryuuma]

Yeah I see Ivyssaur and Squirtle as great losses, and I agree that the cut was due the absence of transformation mecanic.
Particularly, I don't like characters that have similar movesets, I really see them as waste of Slots, for instance i never liked the Young/Toon link, he could be repleaced by Skull Kid and Midna in Melee and Brawl respectively, and probably they not gonna put Ganny AND Ghirarrim in SSB4, but if they didn't wasted a slot with Young Link, both of the villians could be used.

So I don't have problems With Lucas and Wolf (or Falco, or BOTH) being cut. But the Loss of things like R.O.B, Snake and Whatever other character would not be nice.I hate to admit this but I can't see Ike comming back, he'll probably be full repleaced by Chrom, and Snake is a complicated character to came back.
In melee they basically cut off only clones, I think they will basically do it again. Sakurai already state before that is hard to make a new Character and is not cool to waste this time (when he revealed Lucario, he said it).

 

[Lautsuu~]

If we're discussing Pokémon, I'm just...yanno, leave this here.

Pokémon has outranked all the other series representative wise In like...all the Smash Bros games. *coughPokeBallPokemoncoughhack*

 

[Z25]

If we're discussing Pokémon, I'm just...yanno, leave this here.

Pokémon has outranked all the other series representative wise In like...all the Smash Bros games. *coughPokeBallPokemoncoughhack*

That's because pokemon is life. In all seriousness, it isn't to outlandish to think they could get more reps then anyone else. It's all up to sakurai though and as long as everyone character is unique and don't overshadow eachother then I don't mind having that many pokemon reps.

 

[soviet prince]

do you all really think that sakurai goes "I really want to put in mewtwo but I cant because then it have more reps then mario" if he wants it in there in.

 

[Redmagpie93]

First of all, Mario Fanchise have only 5 rep. Pokemon Already have 4 reps and unless they introduce another mushroom character, pokemon will have just one more rep. And between mewtwo and jigglypuff, jiggly chances are way bigger. Jigglypuff is a O12 and appeared in every single Smash Bros, jigglypuff have a original and unique moveset and was a very good character in melee. Mewtwo was a awful character in Melle, and was cut off and replaced by Lucario due his terrible moveset.

And lets be honests, jigglypuff have more potential to be a unique chracter with a diferent moveset while mewtwo would just be redundant, a huddle of moves used in other fighters, even his potential final smash sound redundant now, with Mega CharizardX and Mega Lucario.

mewtwo only chances are a new Mario add, because that implies the possibility of a 6th pokemon slot. Cause de 5th one is for Jigglypuff.

Sakurai considers Brawl to have 6 Pokemon in it, Sm4sh currently has only 4, if they maintain Brawl's number and the assumed Ivy&Squirts cut happens then Jiggly and Mewtwo would both drop in without increasing the roster size at all

 

[Megadoomer]

: Snake only got in thanks to Kojima's constant begging. Due to him mostly being associated with Sony, as well is Nintendo not taking kindly to his inclusion in Smash, Snake may very well miss this installment. Now, there is reasoning that Snake had a game on the 3DS, but even that may not matter.

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Ask...Snake-and-Sonic/2-Snake-and-Sonic-226172.html

Sakurai:
Correct. I know I’m the one who’s being interviewed, but I’d like to ask you how Nintendo felt about having outsiders in the game.

Iwata:
You mean, whether or not it was okay?

Sakurai:
Right.

Iwata:
Everyone understood for the most part since that’s the nature of Smash Bros. However, there were debates about where to draw the line. For the most part though, it was readily solved since we were comfortable that you were in charge for the selection. I myself thought it was best to make the game as inclusive and entertaining as possible since festive opportunities like Smash Bros. only come along once in a while.

Sakurai:
I’m glad everyone felt they could trust me. For my part, I have no regrets about incorporating Snake and Sonic into the game and I think their inclusion was well worthwhile.

Iwata:
Now that you’ve put them in the game, can you tell me what they’re like?

Sakurai:
Hmm, what should I say? I think they’re solid characters with a lot of potential.

Iwata:
Because they’re non-Nintendo characters?

Sakurai:
Right. They certainly have a distinct feel to them. It’s not that I was consciously trying to design Nintendo and non-Nintendo characters, but ultimately, I feel they’re moulded differently than the other characters as far as the laws of Smash Bros. are concerned.

Iwata:
I was impressed with the end results. They blend in as if they’ve always been there yet also possess a fresh, new aura.

Sakurai:
Thank you. I think that once you play these characters and learn their moves, you’ll realise how they differ from other characters. Ultimately, they account for characteristics that can’t be obtained simply by increasing the number of Nintendo characters. I was even able to go all-out with their showy performances.

This doesn't exactly indicate that Nintendo did not like his inclusion in Smash. While I can see some of the reasoning as to why people think that Snake will be cut (even if I don't agree with it), the people at Nintendo seem to ultimately have no problem with Snake's inclusion in Smash Bros., so that can't be used as reasoning.

 

[Z25]

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Ask...Snake-and-Sonic/2-Snake-and-Sonic-226172.html



This doesn't exactly indicate that Nintendo did not like his inclusion in Smash. While I can see some of the reasoning as to why people think that Snake will be cut (even if I don't agree with it), the people at Nintendo seem to ultimately have no problem with Snake's inclusion in Smash Bros., so that can't be used as reasoning.

Plus I feel sakurai would have final say as they can't have smash bros if he doesn't make it, so they could lose a lot if he quits ever, not that I see that happening though. I feel like snake boosted the game's sales a lot so it's not unreasonable to have him come back.

 

[Radical Bones]

- these are the only characters I can see being cut at this stage. If Sonic was shown this early, Snake should be here by now too. PKMN are obvious choices after the latest Direct.

was reworked in Brawl to play differently to Fox, and I think in SSB4 he'll be even more different. Same goes for , who doesn't feel at all like Fox.

I think and will both return. Anyone who plays as the PSI-kids will know that they are far from being clones. The share 3 special moves - which act differently. Change two of Lucas' like they did Sheik and he'll be perfect.

is a hard one. I think was cut because he was a clone. Ike has an original moveset, that is pretty unique in Smash. No other sword users hit so hard, or are so slow. So I think he'll stay.

Just because is unpopular, doesn't mean he'll be cut. I don't know why Sakurai would get rid of him. He's an important part of Nintendo's history, and had a moveset already.

 

[Banjodorf]

I'm not sure about anyone other than PT's lost two and potentially Snake.

Apart from that, I really don't think any other characters will be cut. It makes ZERO sense to cut Ike, because he's probably the most original swordsman in the game that isn't Link, is still incredibly popular and is the only realistic rep for FE's console games. (We're not counting Marth.) That, and he won't play anything like Chrom and already didn't play anything like Marth. Makes me so mad when people say that. People also forget that Roy was at least considered for Brawl, and was probably a low priority cut. But Roy was a full on clone, while Ike is nothing at all like Marth, and was even a well-planned starter character. Stop comparing them.

In addition, if having two many blue-haired lords was actually an issue, we wouldn't have cut a red-haired one, and added in a blue one. (Roy wasn't cut for Ike, but still.)

The only other characters theoretically on the chopping block are Lucas, and the two Stafox characters. If I had to choose one, I'd say Falco is more likely to be given the axe, but honestly, it doesn't make any sense to cut any characters but the first three I mentioned up there, and I'm not even big on cutting Snake. it is what it is if it happens though.

Brawl really pruned all the truly unoriginal clones, and Falco just needs some new moves/reworking. Ganon I think is getting some major changes in this game, I can feel it this time. So yeah. I think three cuts is all I see happening (hope it's all that happens too.)

In other words Sakurai, please don't cut Ike for stupid reasons. I just wouldn't know what to do about that... As much as I love Chrom, it would leave a bad taste in my mouth if my favorite Lord was cut seemingly for him.

 

[TheUltraDeino]

Only reason I didn't include Ice Climbers was because Sakurai has expressed difficulty with implementing them which I think is more significant than a tease. I still think they are likely, but because Sakurai expressed difficulty with getting them to work on 3DS, I can't say they are shoo-ins.

Luma has a more of an AI than Nana, so if Rosalina's in, Ice Climbers are in too

 

[ChikoLad]

Luma has a more of an AI than Nana, so if Rosalina's in, Ice Climbers are in too

I take it you worked on the game's programming then?

 

[C3CC]

And yet both of them were put in Brawl.

Jigglypuff these days is now a Normal/Fairy type, with the latter type being pushed by GameFreak.

Ness had a release of his game on Wii U's VC recently. Not to mention we have a couple of Mother/Earthbound items in Smash 4 now.

Don't get me wrong: I don't want Ness cut. I'll be MAD if Ness gets cut even though I never use him. I was just using him as an example to how I think that the "Original 12 will never go anywhere" thing is not true. I don't really care about Jigglypuff; I'm just worried she could take Mewtwo's spot (or maybe Greninja already did). If the maximum of characters per franchise is 5, there's only one left for Pokémon, and I don't want Jigglypuff to take it. I want Mewtwo.

Also sakurai did say he would never cut the original 12.

I really need proof of this. When and where did he say it? Is there a video or an official interview or anything?

 

[TheUltraDeino]

I take it you worked on the game's programming then?

No, but I can obverse and make inferences. In the direct, we were shown that the luma has a little bit of independence, even if he is mostly remote control. Nana has about as much AI as Tails does in Sonic 2.