Prejudices aside, if a few characters need to be cut who will they be?

[jwj442]

I haven't read the whole topic, so sorry if this has already been posted, but let's not forget the drawing that Sakurai showed at the beginning of development.

Metaknight, Wario, and Game and Watch are all there. And Mr. Saturn too, which points to Ness. That puts these characters (and Master Hand too) as close to confirmed as you can get without an official reveal, IMO. Sakurai also mentioned balancing the Falcon Punch in an interview, so that's an unofficial confirmation for Captain Falcon too.

 

[NintenRob]

I haven't read the whole topic, so sorry if this has already been posted, but let's not forget the drawing that Sakurai showed at the beginning of development.

Metaknight, Wario, and Game and Watch are all there. And Mr. Saturn too, which points to Ness. That puts these characters (and Master Hand too) as close to confirmed as you can get without an official reveal, IMO. Sakurai also mentioned balancing the Falcon Punch in an interview, so that's an unofficial confirmation for Captain Falcon too.

Fabulous Marth confirmed.

 

[Redmagpie93]

Anyone who thinks rob is leaving is on some weird drugs. Jigglypuff is out using the following Logic
Pika, Zard, and Lucario were revealed before greninja. If jigglypuf was going to be in, we would have saw her/him/potato earlier, Mew2 counts as a newcomer using fighting game logic

Jiggs Ness & Falcon have mostly been not revealed pre-launch as they're traditionally hidden, Luigi too however Sakurai admitted he was asked to show him early for Year of Luigi... thus it's very likely they're in but won't be showcased until after the launch of the 3DS game

 

[P0pz]

there is no way game and watch,rob, or ice climbers are getting cut.

also it's stupid theroy that pokemon can not have more reps then mario, there were 6 poke reps in brawl plus has a lot more characters that can add to the roster. I believe mewtwo is in as well as the puff.

If all those characters are added into the game, then Sakurai would be contradicting his quote on not drastically increasing the size of smash 4's roster, and I still feel like the ones I said are safe are more likely to make it back than rob, G&W, and the IC. I honestly wouldn't mind hearing why you think they're sure to come back, so feel free to tell me. (For the record I'm all for seeing a much bigger cast this time and would love to see all those characters come back. I just don't feel like they can return given what Sakurai has said about the matter in the past, unfortunately.)

As for mewtwo, I feel like I probably wasn't clear on the point I was trying to make with the pokemon trainer. It's true that with the pokemon trainer's pokemon there are technically 6 pokemon reps, but since they can't be played separately and you can only choose the trainer on the select screen, t think that the pokemon trainer and his pokemon are treated as one whole character, and if that is the case, then there were only 4 pokemon reps in brawl. Like I said in my previous post there is a chance that mewtwo can come back again, but 5 seems to be the current limit per franchise that Sakurai has been willing to put in, and honestly any more than that would probably feel like overkill, especially if the size of the roster is as limited as Sakurai claims it is.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I have one. R.O.B. was a peripheral, not a video game character. G&W on the other hand is ok, but saying that a character that didn't originate from a game (even though important to Nintendo history) should stay and we should cut an actual Nintendo all star instead...just doesn't seem right.

i'm okay with this line of reasoning as well

Some would say it's because they were a historic part of Nintendo's history back in the day, or a least ROB was last I heard. Also, although it doesn't matter much, they weren't clones either, but I feel G&W has greater chances than ROB despite ROB being the historic one for Nintendo back then, but my info could be wrong, so I'm not completely reliable, but maybe the history of those 2 for Nintendo should be looked at at the very least.

EDIT: I realize I answered the question wrong. Consider it my reason on why they may not be cut.

not to quote this specifically, but ROB wasn't important lol. it was the NES as a whole and the competition to it. ROB's about as joke character as you can get without literally stapling "Joke" on him.

 

[P0pz]

there is no way game and watch,rob, or ice climbers are getting cut.

also it's stupid theroy that pokemon can not have more reps then mario, there were 6 poke reps in brawl plus has a lot more characters that can add to the roster. I believe mewtwo is in as well as the puff.

If all those characters are added into the game, then Sakurai would be contradicting his quote on not drastically increasing the size of smash 4's roster, and I still feel like the ones I said are safe are more likely to make it back than rob, G&W, and the IC. I honestly wouldn't mind hearing why you think they're sure to come back, so feel free to tell me. (For the record I'm all for seeing a much bigger cast this time and would love to see all those characters come back. I just don't feel like they can return given what Sakurai has said about the matter in the past, unfortunately.)

As for mewtwo, I feel like I probably wasn't clear on the point I was trying to make with the pokemon trainer. It's true that with the pokemon trainer's pokemon there are technically 6 pokemon reps, but since they can't be played separately and you can only choose the trainer on the select screen, t think that the pokemon trainer and his pokemon are treated as one whole character, and if that is the case, then there were only 4 pokemon reps in brawl. Like I said in my previous post there is a chance that mewtwo can come back again, but 5 seems to be the current limit per franchise that Sakurai has been willing to put in, and honestly any more than that would probably feel like overkill, especially if the size of the roster is as limited as Sakurai claims it is.

At this point in time, I'd say:


I don't believe any of these guys are in any danger whatsoever. I can't really fathom the people saying that will be cut at all. He is one of the original 12 and the Franklin Badge has already been shown. Mr. Saturn has been showcased somewhere as well I believe. on the other hand, may be in danger. Although I'd hate to see him go given he represents half of their series.

Either or may go. I have a hard time believing that will go simply because he has been around so long, but I also have difficulty believing we're keeping all three space animals for some reason.

is up for debate, he may get swapped for Chrom, but this is all speculation.

Things are looking incredibly grim for and at the moment. seems to overshadow rather badly, and I'm doubtful that can make it on his own. is gone no matter how you put it. Even if and made it in by miracle on their own, Red will still not be there in my eyes. I also don't foresee much chance of a new Pokemon Trainer.

is a tricky one. Although there is a slight push for him to be integrated back in, the business world is saying no, and for the valid reason that MGS isn't really relevant for Nintendo at this point. It doesn't make much sense for Nintendo to showcase Snake again. However, I do hope I am wrong, as throwing Snake away is the loss of a good moveset. Given that hints of his moveset are being integrated into other characters though, I think he's gone.

I don't believe that 's chances have been hampered by in the slightest. Looking back at Brawl, we had 6 Pokemon reps in all; we currently have four for Sm4sh, with two slots left for most probably and .

This.

I agree with virtually everything you said minus the fact that rob, G&W and the IC are 100% safe given the intended size of the roster, and that mewtwo can come back safely as the pokemon trainer was counted as one character given that he can only be selected by himself on the select screen and was marketed that way on the dojo. Aside from that, very well written and thoughtful post. Great work!

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

My friend keeps saying that he thinks snake will return for the next smash, but I really hope he doesn't.

I was bothered by the fact that sonic was re added, and don't get me wrong I like sonic. I thought it was a cool choice to put him in brawl, but I didn't think we needed the return of a third party character. Snake, (again like sonic) was an interesting choice, and I liked him in brawl as well. However, I feel that if third party characters are added it should be new ones, so it can spice up the game a little bit. That's why I would be so hyped if we got Pacman.

Also a bit off topic, but they should try to keep third party characters a secret for people to unlock.
Think about the final cut scene in SSE:
Wouldn't you flip out if you saw Sonic and had no idea he was in the game what soever?
If Pacman does end up being a playable character, they should try to keep it a secret for everyone.
And yes, I know there will be leaks, but I still think it would be a cool idea.

 

[jwj442]

not to quote this specifically, but ROB wasn't important lol. it was the NES as a whole and the competition to it. ROB's about as joke character as you can get without literally stapling "Joke" on him.

ROB is important just because he helped get the NES into stores in the US. After the video game crash had killed Atari, Colecovision, etc., retailers were really cagey about putting another video game console on their shelves. With ROB, Nintendo was able to convince them "this is a toy, not just a videogame system - it's different from Atari." Of course, Super Mario Bros. was the game that made the NES take off. But ROB was one of the things that convinced western retailers to give it a chance.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

ROB is important just because he helped get the NES into stores in the US. After the video game crash had killed Atari, Colecovision, etc., retailers were really cagey about putting another video game console on their shelves. With ROB, Nintendo was able to convince them "this is a toy, not just a videogame system - it's different from Atari." Of course, Super Mario Bros. was the game that made the NES take off. But ROB was one of the things that convinced western retailers to give it a chance.

hardly. Saying that's what helped is like saying the NES Zapper helped, which while that did, R.O.B. hardly did much in that; convincing retailers that it was fun was what they needed to do and that they had quality control.

The Sega Freakin' Master System had more to do with it.

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

hardly. Saying that's what helped is like saying the NES Zapper helped, which while that did, R.O.B. hardly did much in that; convincing retailers that it was fun was what they needed to do and that they had quality control.

The Sega Freakin' Master System had more to do with it.

ROB to me though has a cool concept. Though it's true he didn't do that well when released, it's cool to think you were playing with a weird robot kinda thing.

As a character in smash, I agree with those who say that he should definitely be cut, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see something be added in that has that same retro feel that ROB did.

 

[jwj442]

hardly. Saying that's what helped is like saying the NES Zapper helped, which while that did, R.O.B. hardly did much in that; convincing retailers that it was fun was what they needed to do and that they had quality control.

The Sega Freakin' Master System had more to do with it.

The Master System came out after the NES in the west, so not really. ROB was part of a bundle at the very beginning. His importance in pushing the system to retailers has been documented by a lot of people. Yes, he was pretty useless and he usually wasn't the reason people actually bought it, but that's not the point.

http://www.onthemedia.org/story/133033-how-nintendo-saved-the-video-game-industry/transcript/

P.J. VOGT: Storeowners had already been burned by unsold video games. Nintendo knew that it had better games and a better business model, but it had to trick retailers into stocking their system. So it came up with a Trojan horse. Nintendo bundled the video game system with an accessory, a robot toy named R.O.B.

[CLIP]:

MAN: Play with R.O.B., the extraordinary video robot. Batteries not included.

[CLIP SOUNDS UP AND UNDER]

P.J. VOGT: The way they pitched it to retailers, R.O.B. was a toy that just happened to come with a video game.

STEVEN KENT: When they went to retailers, when the retailers said, we don't want video games, they'd say, no, this isn't a video game, this is a robot game. And the retailers would say, oh, okay, robot games. As long as it’s not video, we're happy. That was how they got in the door.

 

[P0pz]

When snake was added to brawl, MGS4 wasn't coming to a nintendo console either.
Kojima said it himself fairly recently that he wants snake in smash 4, implying permission is always there should Sakurai decide he wants snake to return.

I actually didn't know that Kojima was interested in putting him back in again. If that's true than snake may have a good chance of coming back, which I'd be pretty cool with (even if that would mean that there would probably be no more third party newcomers, and I was hoping for someone like Simon Belmont to be added).

 

[Thirdkoopa]

The Master System came out after the NES in the west (and in Japan, for that matter), so not really. ROB was part of the deluxe bundle at the very beginning. His importance in pushing the system to retailers has been documented by a lot of people.

http://www.onthemedia.org/story/133033-how-nintendo-saved-the-video-game-industry/transcript/

Competition is indeed what actually saved the industry - Without that competition, can you really argue that we'd be in the same place? Sega had a lot to do with that when they were more relevant and still making consoles. It's not just about what starts it.

See, that'd be an argument if it wasn't for the fact that R.O.B. hardly moved sales where-as Duck Hunt/Mario Bros (in whatever cartridge copy you want) did. Yeah, R.O.B. was a ruse, but there were plenty of other ruses in the whole thing; I know since I've done essays on the entire crash before. Duck Hunt was a ruse in it's own.

 

[jwj442]

Competition is indeed what actually saved the industry - Without that competition, can you really argue that we'd be in the same place? Sega had a lot to do with that when they were more relevant and still making consoles. It's not just about what starts it.

See, that'd be an argument if it wasn't for the fact that R.O.B. hardly moved sales where-as Duck Hunt/Mario Bros (in whatever cartridge copy you want) did. Yeah, R.O.B. was a ruse, but there were plenty of other ruses in the whole thing; I know since I've done essays on the entire crash before. Duck Hunt was a ruse in it's own.

I agree that it's an exaggeration to say that Nintendo single-handedly saved gaming (especially since PC gaming could have kept developing on its own path regardless) and that Sega deserves a lot of credit. Still, without the NES's initial success, would retailers have bothered with the Master System? Well, we can never know for sure with speculative history.

I agree that ROB wasn't the only factor in getting it on shelves. But he was enough to be important (so is the zapper). He matters more to Nintendo's history than the Ice Climbers (who I am not saying should get cut).

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I agree that it's an exaggeration to say that Nintendo single-handedly saved gaming (especially since PC gaming could have kept developing on its own path regardless) and that Sega deserves a lot of credit. Still, without the NES's initial success, would retailers have bothered with the Master System? Well, we can never know for sure with speculative history.

My point was that Nintendo had multiple ruses, R.O.B. was just a ruse. I don't mind people who want R.O.B. back in (As I'm okay with all the Brawl roster returning rather than burning bridges, save for Bulba/Ivy's moveset which can live on spiritually maybe?), I just hate that "HE SAVED GAMING" backshield.

ROB to me though has a cool concept. Though it's true he didn't do that well when released, it's cool to think you were playing with a weird robot kinda thing.

As a character in smash, I agree with those who say that he should definitely be cut, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see something be added in that has that same retro feel that ROB did.

Hmm... What would be added in with the same retro feel then? That's honestly a hard say. Even as a Sukapon fan, I'm not sure if that's a good enough replacement.

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

Hmm... What would be added in with the same retro feel then? That's honestly a hard say. Even as a Sukapon fan, I'm not sure if that's a good enough replacement.

Well, it's a bit of a stretch but, what about this little guy?

Maybe not as a character but maybe as an Assist Trophy, maybe he throws Famicom Disks at enemies?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Well, it's a bit of a stretch but, what about this little guy?

Maybe not as a character but maybe as an Assist Trophy, maybe he throws Famicom Disks at enemies?

Mr Disk? Diskun? I sadly can't see because of the internet blocks here.

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

Mr Disk? Diskun? I sadly can't see because of the internet blocks here.

Yup, like I said a bit of a stretch but I can definitely see him as an Assist.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Yup, like I said a bit of a stretch but I can definitely see him as an Assist.

There we go. It loaded now. Diskun vs R.O.B. would actually be something I'd want to see tbh; he'd be a great AT at least.

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

Diskun vs R.O.B. would actually be something I'd want to see tbh; he'd be a great AT at least.

But could Diskun really be given a moveset? From what I re call he doesn't do that much. Just sits there and looks adorable, lol.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

But could Diskun really be given a moveset? From what I re call he doesn't do that much. Just sits there and looks adorable, lol.

R.O.B. was given a moveset of all bloody things. I'm pretty sure Diskun can and I'm absolutely positive someone here made a moveset for Diskun already lol.

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

R.O.B. was given a moveset of all bloody things. I'm pretty sure Diskun can and I'm absolutely positive someone here made a moveset for Diskun already lol.

Well someone made a basic moveset for him on gamefaqs, I'll post link and his move set.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/59582060?page=11

From Snakey:
Diskun regular moves:

A: Diskun hits his opponent by tilting into them.
AA: Diskun flips vertically
A-continuously: Diskun spins vertically almost like a buzz saws.
Running-A: Diskun will tumble several times.
Side-A: Diskun flips horizontally.
Down-A: Diskun lay on the ground and flaps around (like Mr. Game & Watch’s Down-A).
Up-A: Diskun jumps up a bit on does a vertical flip.
A-Air: Diskun spins around.
Forward-Air: Diskun spins himself like with Sonic’s and Falco’s forward-air.
Backward-Air: Diskun flips backwards.
Down-Air: Diskun crashes down very fast head first. His down-air work like Toon Link’s in that he comes down fast, and he bounces off his opponent after performing the move, allowing you to perform it again and again.
Up-Air: Diskun flips vertically several times very fast.
Forward-Smash: Diskun flips very rapidly horizontally.
Down-Smash: Diskun spins around on the ground.
Up-Smash: Diskun jumps up and head butts his opponents.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Well someone made a basic moveset for him on gamefaqs, I'll post link and his move set.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/59582060?page=11

From Snakey:
Diskun regular moves:

A: Diskun hits his opponent by tilting into them.
AA: Diskun flips vertically
A-continuously: Diskun spins vertically almost like a buzz saws.
Running-A: Diskun will tumble several times.
Side-A: Diskun flips horizontally.
Down-A: Diskun lay on the ground and flaps around (like Mr. Game & Watch’s Down-A).
Up-A: Diskun jumps up a bit on does a vertical flip.
A-Air: Diskun spins around.
Forward-Air: Diskun spins himself like with Sonic’s and Falco’s forward-air.
Backward-Air: Diskun flips backwards.
Down-Air: Diskun crashes down very fast head first. His down-air work like Toon Link’s in that he comes down fast, and he bounces off his opponent after performing the move, allowing you to perform it again and again.
Up-Air: Diskun flips vertically several times very fast.
Forward-Smash: Diskun flips very rapidly horizontally.
Down-Smash: Diskun spins around on the ground.
Up-Smash: Diskun jumps up and head butts his opponents.

that's actually an interesting moveset, not gonna lie.

I hate to say this though but I don't want to get distracted too much. The point was cuts, right? I have to say, I really wanted Pichu's moveset to live on (not him himself but the general idea) but Greninja seems to do that a bit but better.

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

that's actually an interesting moveset, not gonna lie.
I really wanted Pichu's moveset to live on.

Minus the whole receiving damage for almost every move you do?

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Minus the whole receiving damage for almost every move you do?

yeah minus that part

that'd be an interesting gimmick to see back but they'd have to be really OP to justify it.

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

yeah minus that part

that'd be an interesting gimmick to see back but they'd have to be really OP to justify it.

Seeing how OP lil mac is gonna be, they should somehow give him a similar affect to taking damage like Pichu.
Also, I wouldn't mind wolf being taken out, he was pretty much the clone of Fox

 

[Dott]

Ike will have to be cut to let Chrom replaces him.

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

Ike will have to be cut to let Chrom replaces him.

As long as he's quicker than Ike, I'm cool with it.

 

[Dott]

As long as he's quicker than Ike, I'm cool with it.

Looks like he will/would.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Seeing how OP lil mac is gonna be, they should somehow give him a similar affect to taking damage like Pichu.
Also, I wouldn't mind wolf being taken out, he was pretty much the clone of Fox

nah

wolf was pretty vastly different in playstyle. With Fox, there's more juggling and range. With Wolf, there's more direct combat.

plus he's important enough to stay

As long as he's quicker than Ike, I'm cool with it.

if chrom uses aet-

...did chrom use aether

i need to play awakening again

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

Looks like he will/would.

Dayum, He looks fly. Never got into the Fire Emblem series, but I love the characters in smash.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Dayum, He looks fly. Never got into the Fire Emblem series, but I love the characters in smash.

You should start with Awakening! They're great tactical RPG's.

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

You should start with Awakening! They're great tactical RPG's.

I might, I like RPG's like Kingdom Hearts where you don't haft to do turn battles.

 

[Dott]

Dayum, He looks fly. Never got into the Fire Emblem series, but I love the characters in smash.

And Shadow Dragom if you want to know about Marth.

I tought the same about the turns battles, but Fire Emblem it's just too good. It's addictive once you get how to play it.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Eerrr is this the FE Diskun topic?

 

[Dott]

Eerrr is this the FE Diskun topic?

Every topic that somehow involves FE it's a FE topic.

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

Eerrr is this the FE Diskun topic?

Sorry, but anyway yeah. Snake, ROB, and Wolf should definitely be cut.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Wolf should definitely be cut.

hell naw

 

[the smash nerd]

hell naw

Yes. It no way to cut

 

[Rainbow Pancake]

hell naw

Actually, now that I think about it...
Wold was different in the way he moved, he was a less of a clone than Falco was.
On second thought, Falco should be removed.