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Practice advice!!!!

Hylian

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This was taken from the social thread.

Aside from practicing just chaingrabs you guys should try this:

Go and find every desynch you don't know how to do or can't do on command(assuming it's reasonable..for example my desynch no one can really do consistently apparently lol) and learn them. I don't care how long it takes or how boring it is but learn all of them. This gives you access to more options, even if some are worse then others you might find a use for them at some point, you never know.

Once you've done this and are practicing against actual players at smashfests instead of playing like you normally would try playing VERY basic. Not TOO basic but pretty much stop your normal desynching and focus on just moving around and using your shield a lot. While playing this way practice some of the more obscure desynchs in situations you wouldn't normally use them in. Just look for places to do stuff that you normally wouldn't or didn't know how to do before. After doing this a ton you will recognize a lot of situations that a lot of different desynchs will work in or lead to different results.

The reason you want to play without your normal desynching game is because your habits may blind you from options you have. If you normally approach someone with pivot desynch into blizz walls in a match-up then try just walking towards them. Mixing up everything you do leads to you finding things that work and allows you to have more options for those future tournament games when people are catching on to what you are doing.

One thing I love about watching different IC players no matter how good they are is that everyone seems to have so different of a style and most of it is revolved around desynching. For example I was watching Future play Fino in a match and saw him do a nice dash dance desynch to IB to grab as a reaction to something fino did. I wouldn't have done the same thing I would have set up IB walls where he was and kept my stage position which he had and possibly gotten a grab a different way from forcing a bad position, but his method worked quite well so I remembered it.

Which leads into my next things: videos.

Go watch some videos of Kakera. Lain. Meep. Me. SG. Cura. Future. Random IC player 1. etc. You don't need to specifically looking for playstyles or things they are doing better for you, but just pay attention to how differently so many people respond to situations, different desynching patterns, conditioning..avoid watching the match as a whole just look for things you can add into your game, and then practice them against people.

Even if things may not seem useful right away you can always change up your game when you need to if you have the options available to you. So go get those options guys.

Oh, and practice CGing.
 

Hylian

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Yes. This is exactly how you should practice. I also VERY much suggest not playing "hard" in friendlies, tipping people off to your grab cues is a very bad thing to happen to you, and, at least where I'm from, spreads around very quickly. Someone got a read on one of my common desynch to grab setups, and I haven't been able to use it on the top players here anymore at all. It takes weeks to recover from a tipped habit, even veiled ones.

Practice CGs on Random Level 9 CPUs in brawl mode in 3 to 6 stock matches (thanks Hylian :)), it helps your transition grabs as well as the ability to switch from weight to weight. Once I started practicing on them, I went from crap consistency to excellent. I also suggest practicing grabbing with Nana first, so you're not entirely clueless what to do if you drop a hobble and Nana picks it up, or your desynch goes wrong and nana does a supergrab and you happen to catch them.

Also, practice your CGs.

This is a good post as well. And it's a very good method to practice your CG's trust me.
 

ch33s3

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Some other stuff I just thought of:

Learn what links into grabs (jab1!), and where moves put your opponents, almost nobody DIs low knockback moves at low to mid percent, so if you're aware of where they end up, you can often get grabs or followups that don't seem to link. Jab 2 to walk forward dtilt or angled ftilt comes to mind on heavies below 50.

Learn your opponent's aerial options, ALL OF THEM. If any of them involve hitting you as they land so they're "safe", that should be a stock every time.

Also, learn the uses of footstooling, both on and offstage. It's something I'm integrating slowly into my game, and it really is phenomenally helpful.

Above all, DO NOT GIVE YOUR TOP PLAYERS IC PRACTICE, EVER. You know what you need to do against them more than they know what they need to do against you, always, even if it's just the theorycraft, because you understand Nana, and they do not.
 

swordgard

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Above all, DO NOT GIVE YOUR TOP PLAYERS IC PRACTICE, EVER. You know what you need to do against them more than they know what they need to do against you, always, even if it's just the theorycraft, because you understand Nana, and they do not.
Except I live in a region with the best snake and best snake at ics-snake matchup -.- . TBH I don't see why we need secrecy, the faster your opponent learns to gimp nana, the fast you can find countermeasures to that. Its actually counterproductive to keep the other player bad at the matchup, for you will be handicapped vs the people that know how to play them.


EDIT: You guys are late on the footstooling thing XD
 

Gaia_x

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I agreed with swordgard 100%. The more we hide stuff from other characters/ players the slower we can truly increase the ic meta game.

And i also agree to practicing everything hylian is explaining. However id also like to including what i usually do during friendlys. More than anything i try to practice my Perfect shielding on characters moves. Perfect shielding is 1 of the most important things you can do with iceclimbers cause in some cases it can set up grabs which could lead to stocks or high percents. And also learn which move you can grab and attack out of. Such as Gaws Bair or maybe marth sword dance.
 

Rubberbandman

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I still have trouble with catching people out of DB, only because DS right after can catch me. =/

I agree with Cura and Swordgard. If your opponent doesnt have icies practice, then what good are they going to do for you developing your own character? I mean if its tourney, I can understand why you wouldnt let them. Otherwise, I'd try to use my opponents knowledge against them. (Like some sort of games with the mind.)
 

l!nk_aut

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I noticed that nobody's using the full potential of the ic's metagame and started practicing desynchs/chaingrabs/other stuff a few days ago about 2-3hours every day (and then I saw this thread lol ^^).
I probably found some interesting stuff to know and I think I'm going to upload a video of those things soon.

edit: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=277366
 

Hylian

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Cheese I think that only works for a short time, they are going to get the practice if they are smart and you play them in tournament anyways. That's one of the reasons I'm saying to go learn all the desynchs, you'll have more options to mix up your game and confuse your opponent.

If you have 5 good options from desynching when your opponent does X to obtain a grab then it doesn't matter how much they've played you. You will still have a good rate of grabbing them if you are mixing it up. If you only have 2 options it's very likely they will catch on having played you a lot.

Good stuff everyone.
 

r3d d09

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after playing melee for two weeks, i popped in brawl, and i felt like i was more balanced or better than i was before melee. Reason being. i suck at melee so i had to read a lot more, and i've been working on my DI a lot * bad habits * and I have agree with what cheese said. work with chaingrabbing as nana has the grab first. we all get in those situations where nana grabs instead of popo and losts of us freeze up, don't say you aren't like this, because i've seen basically every IC vid and it happens everytime, So work on that.

I know my habits, and i'm trying to break them, when i dash in for a grab, i will pull up a shield and try to shieldgrab. But now i'm changing things up and my placements are a lot better than they were two months ago.

I just checked out the the IC wiki. SG and i talked a lot about it before it got developed. I strongly suggest we get that thing moving. If you're active on the thread, i say you're allowed in.

Now that i have a capture card, i think it'd be nice to show setups for grabs, desyncs. etc. Everyone can contribute and make IC's have a good movement in the positive direction. We need to stop holding our secrets, or most. and help eachother out. no one is going to be number one without the support of two and three.

oh, by the way Hylian, i did your desync like 9 times in a row yesterday.

Stop being douchebags and help eachother out. This is a brotherhood, treat it that way.

*some of this doesn't apply, but some other stuff does*
 

00-Zero

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^ This x10
I really don't post anymore because I'd rather not get involved in the arguments.
(Though I've instigated one or two)
But yeah. Like the whole frozen vs cheese. It's just easier to not be in it. I myself had an out with cheese, if you can call it that, but it's like whatever now. I'm not even trippin.
I don't doubt he know things that others don't. I just don't see the need in being an *** to everyone you don't know or everyone you think is bad.
 

r3d d09

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everyone needs to lay off cheese. yeah, he's cocky at times, but that's who he is. accept it. I get along with him.

but he does know some stuff that others don't. of my knowledge. but i'm sure everyone is holding stuff from people. stop. neow
 

swordgard

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^ This x10
I really don't post anymore because I'd rather not get involved in the arguments.
(Though I've instigated one or two)
But yeah. Like the whole frozen vs cheese. It's just easier to not be in it. I myself had an out with cheese, if you can call it that, but it's like whatever now. I'm not even trippin.
I don't doubt he know things that others don't. I just don't see the need in being an *** to everyone you don't know or everyone you think is bad.
The problem here isn't getting into arguments. An argument can help determine who is right from wrong about a specific subject, it is the basis of knowledge. What the problem is is that some people are too busy trying to prove the other guy is bad at the game rather than sharing tactics.
 

Sieguest

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This thread went from advice to attempted peer mediation. <.<

I just want to say that this advice really helps. I started practicing like this yesterday and I feel a lot more comfortable in my desynching game. Still not completely consistent with CGs but it's coming along a lot better than I was. (less random strokes of awesome and more consistent awesome :D).

Good stuffs.
 

Hylian

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Also, practice on other stages! Learn the MLG stages!!!!!
 

00-Zero

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The problem here isn't getting into arguments. An argument can help determine who is right from wrong about a specific subject, it is the basis of knowledge. What the problem is is that some people are too busy trying to prove the other guy is bad at the game rather than sharing tactics.
Yeah totally. It would be nice if we were having arguments about something other than who's got the bigger ****. But we're not. It's dumb. I don't care how bad or good you are. If you know information but can't apply it to win, then oh well. It's still the stuff that you know that's important. But that's not to say placing isn't important in it's own way lol.
 

Hylian

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I gave up on that. The worst stage I'll stay ICs on is Frigate, unless I'm playing a top MK. CPs are too hard for ICs.
With that mentality yeah. I know a bunch of cool tricks on stages like delphino/CS/Frigate etc that are very useful from practicing them a lot. I counterpick CS often against MK actually. I just ban brinstar and play GW on RC and I can play IC's on every other stage.
 

FrozenHobo

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i've decided that at mlg i'm always going to CP green greens. i'm there for the free stuff; i don't even give a **** about mlg brawl.
 

EverAlert

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All this advice in this thread is very interesting, I'll have to try it out sometime. :)

As for what I do to practice... I don't really do anything other than work on CGs or just play a lot most of the time, but if I know I'm going to come up against X in tournament or find I'm having trouble with a particular matchup, I will focus completely that that matchup and relearn it from the ground up. Figure out spacings and options and tricks and everything from scratch.


Also lol, I hardly ever play ICs in friendlies unless something makes me start caring about winning, I usually just play Marth. Cheese would be proud. :3
 

kackamee

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delfino? greens? lol

id consider those worse than frigate
I don't think Delfino or Greens is that bad at all.
Brinstar is the worst IMO.

But then again. I don't even think norfair is super bad for IC's. Lol.
Frozen. I can't wait to see you at raleigh <3
 

Gaia_x

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MLG stages are definetly an IC worse nightmare. With more neutrals such as halberd and such make it difficult for ICs to get 1 of their better starter games. And at mlg it is crucial for us to game 1. There are alot of stages that make matches difficult for us. Any one who is 100% ICs will have a tough time.

For myself. I usually Ban RC. Because i second marth and in my opinion marth is better on brinstar then on rc. But now with the stages we have another stage to worry about. And thats norfair. At MLG orlando i was cp'd to norfair about 3 times. in which i lost every singles time.

Which was my issue when i faced chazz winner bracket 2.
He beat me game 1. And i knew from watching his previous match with neo. That he'd something bad for me. Then i won game 2. But sense he had won game 1, Game 3 is guaranteed on his cp. So him playing marth id assume he wouldnt go RC and he cp'd neo to brinstar so i went ahead and banned that. And he took me to norfair which caused me to lose the set.

Watch out for norfair.

100% Ic mains i feel sorry for you. Its not impossible to win on these stages but believe me at a high level of competition its about 99% loss for ic mains on some of these stages.

My Suggestion. Ban norfair. ICs are actually playable on rc and brin. If you have a secondary be prepared to whip it out.
 

ch33s3

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I think Frigate is worse than Delfino, I don't mind Plaza at all. Castle Siege is okay too, I stay ICs there, and I stay ICs on halberd most of the time. Green Greens is fine, too. Other than that, I think I go MK on every other CP.
 

kackamee

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Halberd isn't bad at all depending on who your opponent is playing as.

I'm kinda upset that I most likely won't be able to go 100% IC's at MLG. Seems I'll have to use mah Yoshi a bit. O:
 

ChibiIceClimberz

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Brinstar's the worst for me when I use ICs, l0l.

Green Greens on the other hand... I never really play there. o.o
 

Prawn

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if you wanna go m2k style, put a lvl 3 snake on and combo the **** out of him. dont take advantedge of his cpu habits and dont grab him, just work out your ic desync and pseudo combo game.


idk just thought id mention

good info in here though hylian

edit: also the only stage ics cant win on is brinstar

everything else we're legit(besides scrooging maybe idk)
 

Prawn

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uair, usmash, and upb all kill RIDICULOUSLY early off the top. the boat is hard to camp ics on, just dont get hit off the left on the part going upwards, and camp really hard on parts like the swinging crane that ics have trouble on.


along with a bunch of other things. RC is very doable. also a lot of mks will go aggro cause they think they have some huge advantedge.
 

Prawn

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yeah norfair i could see being bad, but vs a lot of characters the uair pressure is broken if you can hold the bottom platform. also get dem grabs when the lava pushes them towards you
 

Prawn

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yeah i could see game and watch being a big problem on RC but i play no top level game and watches

maybe wario if played right, but like i said, almost everyone plays too aggressive vs the ics on RC cause they assume they are incredibly weak and vunerable.
 
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