PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Dr Peepee]

I don't dash toward grab much, but I may occasionally vs say Falco who is pretty much not thinking of shield grab.

I wouldn't worry about timings/beats so much right now. Just work on positional awareness and learning what an opponent likes to do(adapting).

Mainly because it would turn into multiple dashes, and I can't practice those effectively yet. I may not do it on stream even when healthy given the focus it takes.

Hitting a late(r) aerial so you could react with Bair can be pretty good. You could also mid Bair their shield.

Yes.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

I don't dash toward grab much, but I may occasionally vs say Falco who is pretty much not thinking of shield grab.

I wouldn't worry about timings/beats so much right now. Just work on positional awareness and learning what an opponent likes to do(adapting).

Mainly because it would turn into multiple dashes, and I can't practice those effectively yet. I may not do it on stream even when healthy given the focus it takes.

Hitting a late(r) aerial so you could react with Bair can be pretty good. You could also mid Bair their shield.

Yes.

How do I purposefully cultivate situational awareness? Analysis and guessing what will happen?

How do stages work in the falco yoshi matchup?

How should you look to beat yoshi's bair? Are you looking to trade with your own bair? Get under it and u air? Cross up and bair?

Do you have any general tips vs the character?

I've done some brief analysis and from what I can see this matchup is super bair centric for falco, because if yoshi is in the air that's falcos best tool for contesting whatever he does, just with simple timing and dash mixups. Is there a way to push space while yoshi is in the air besdies with pivot bair? How do you keep them grounded? Do you want them grounded?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Study positions and how they relate to each other and how people change within the same ones.

Yoshis is good, killing off top. FD is good since Yoshi can't DJC or combo break, similar with PS. BF may be the worst since Yoshi can DJC and attack from many places.

Bair it, Utilt it, go over with Dair, laser it or pressure landing.

Shine yoshi out of his DJ.

Don't challenge super armor so much unless you can break it. Hitting Yoshi out of the air is okay, as is sniping his landing before he can parry if possible.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

PSA to everyone,

I was going through posts in this thread to reference as I analyze some of my matches, and decided I'd sort all the posts from this thread into a google drive so people can more easily find the subject matter they are looking for!

The read me file has further details about how all the posts are sorted. I was planning on sorting ALL of the posts in this thread, but:

a) the material gets ****ing GIRTHY around 2018
b) I'm a melee player not a librarian lol
c) There's so much information already compiled that unless you're looking for something really specific, then there's probably already a post covering it in some sort of detail.

Here's the link to the google drive:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=13HRLuFRAwQstHO0PwzjdlpqHYFhD6BfY

Cheers!

P.S. Shoutouts to yort for getting PP to essentially write 40000 words worth of Falco knowledge over the course of a year lmao
P.P.S. The far and away most repeated question was "what do I do about Peach float" , with "how do I beat fox fullhop/platform camping" as a close second

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Study positions and how they relate to each other and how people change within the same ones.

Yoshis is good, killing off top. FD is good since Yoshi can't DJC or combo break, similar with PS. BF may be the worst since Yoshi can DJC and attack from many places.

Bair it, Utilt it, go over with Dair, laser it or pressure landing.

Shine yoshi out of his DJ.

Don't challenge super armor so much unless you can break it. Hitting Yoshi out of the air is okay, as is sniping his landing before he can parry if possible.

Recently been noticing that instead of using adapting using simple options, I've been trying to cover every option with complicated tools. It really doesn't work out and makes me frustrated. So I'm trying to fix this by going to the roots of falco and his tools.

Which properties of opponents characters make it good to laser more against them? I.e. what weaknesses of opponents characters does laser exploit? And the inverse of that - what is lasering weaker against, empirically?

What playstyles is laser stronger against? I'm guessing that laser is good against every playstyle because it can be used in different ways; tack on damage to get them to a certain percent, force them to come in from a longer distance, take space, force a reaction by having frame advantage at a closer distance; etc.

Why does half dash back laser feel so good against marth, sheik, and fox specifically?

What tools are there to close distance with laser? The one's I've thought of are sh fade forward laser, dash back dash forward laser in place (cutting the dash back at different intervals seems really good), and dash forward laser.

What do you think of backflip laser? I like it because you can do it oos and is a different visual cue from half dash back laser. What's the difference between backflip laser and half dash back laser?

Do you think a good mixup for laser timings is a non-ff laser vs a ff laser? This way you can start your jump at the same time but then mixup the timing that the laser comes out after the jump. Do you think this has relevance vs ps? Or maybe not because most people do ps off of sound cues anyway, and both of the lasers would be as low as possible so that it's hard to ps and so you can jump over it anyway.

Also I've noticed one thing about practicing tools more which really interested me, there are some positions that I've struggled with and haven't quite figured out, but they become easier to adapt to because I already have the tool that "beats" it at my disposal. And it's easy to apply the tool because of my understanding of the tools strengths and weaknesses, and it happens so naturally as well. My process used to always be to find positions I'm weak against and then think about different tools that are strong in that position, but the reverse of the process works as well! Interesting.

 

[Dr Peepee]

PSA to everyone,

I was going through posts in this thread to reference as I analyze some of my matches, and decided I'd sort all the posts from this thread into a google drive so people can more easily find the subject matter they are looking for!

The read me file has further details about how all the posts are sorted. I was planning on sorting ALL of the posts in this thread, but:

a) the material gets ****ing GIRTHY around 2018
b) I'm a melee player not a librarian lol
c) There's so much information already compiled that unless you're looking for something really specific, then there's probably already a post covering it in some sort of detail.

Here's the link to the google drive:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=13HRLuFRAwQstHO0PwzjdlpqHYFhD6BfY

Cheers!

P.S. Shoutouts to yort for getting PP to essentially write 40000 words worth of Falco knowledge over the course of a year lmao
P.P.S. The far and away most repeated question was "what do I do about Peach float" , with "how do I beat fox fullhop/platform camping" as a close second

Could someone tell me how to beat Peach float? my short hop laser seems to keep missing it???

Thanks stabbed, saved the link.

Recently been noticing that instead of using adapting using simple options, I've been trying to cover every option with complicated tools. It really doesn't work out and makes me frustrated. So I'm trying to fix this by going to the roots of falco and his tools.

Which properties of opponents characters make it good to laser more against them? I.e. what weaknesses of opponents characters does laser exploit? And the inverse of that - what is lasering weaker against, empirically?

What playstyles is laser stronger against? I'm guessing that laser is good against every playstyle because it can be used in different ways; tack on damage to get them to a certain percent, force them to come in from a longer distance, take space, force a reaction by having frame advantage at a closer distance; etc.

Why does half dash back laser feel so good against marth, sheik, and fox specifically?

What tools are there to close distance with laser? The one's I've thought of are sh fade forward laser, dash back dash forward laser in place (cutting the dash back at different intervals seems really good), and dash forward laser.

What do you think of backflip laser? I like it because you can do it oos and is a different visual cue from half dash back laser. What's the difference between backflip laser and half dash back laser?

Do you think a good mixup for laser timings is a non-ff laser vs a ff laser? This way you can start your jump at the same time but then mixup the timing that the laser comes out after the jump. Do you think this has relevance vs ps? Or maybe not because most people do ps off of sound cues anyway, and both of the lasers would be as low as possible so that it's hard to ps and so you can jump over it anyway.

Also I've noticed one thing about practicing tools more which really interested me, there are some positions that I've struggled with and haven't quite figured out, but they become easier to adapt to because I already have the tool that "beats" it at my disposal. And it's easy to apply the tool because of my understanding of the tools strengths and weaknesses, and it happens so naturally as well. My process used to always be to find positions I'm weak against and then think about different tools that are strong in that position, but the reverse of the process works as well! Interesting.

If a character is grounded more, laser is better. If they are slower it's often better. Laser is weaker against closer and faster opponents and also ones that can play a vertical game well.

Playstyle doesn't really matter because you can adjust laser with them in many cases as you said.

Mixes up coming in, often you're close to them and forcing them to swing or move if you dash back, and getting them stuck still lets you stay close for pressure afterward.

Can also WD forward laser or WD back laser forward in some way.

Backflip you change stage position less and show threat of Bair more directly.

Yeah that's a good mixup. Just have to be careful with the delay since laser can already be slow.

It's good to approach from many angles. This is why we work on fundamental understanding.

 

[woglofungi]

Hey,
Do you know anyways to edgeguard without suiciding?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Know how far out you can go and still make it back. Know what percents you can hit them and they can't make it back and kill you. Learn to control your character around the edge.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Know how far out you can go and still make it back. Know what percents you can hit them and they can't make it back and kill you. Learn to control your character around the edge.

What are the most basic laser patterns as falco? By pattern I mean combining between 0-3 dashes and at least two lasers.

If I am doing a dash forward (or even run forward I guess) wavedash back laser, am I confirming my opponents position off of the dash to do a wavedash, and the confirming again during the wavedash to do a laser? Or is it all one action? Or somewhere in between? Like dash forward wd back as one set play, and then choosing to laser if you put them in shield or something.

How can you benefit from friendly sessions where you have lower levels of energy?

 

[Dr Peepee]

It depends on matchup and what your own goals are to an extent, but some good ones include

-laser dash/dash laser

-laser dash laser

-dash dash laser(and other combinations of these three)

-laser aerial/laser dash back aerial in or in place

etc

You CAN confirm during the dash in, but it's really hard. I suggest committing to the WD back as you begin for now and then confirming out of WD back.

Focus on practicing specific things, or working on your B game.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

It depends on matchup and what your own goals are to an extent, but some good ones include

-laser dash/dash laser

-laser dash laser

-dash dash laser(and other combinations of these three)

-laser aerial/laser dash back aerial in or in place

etc

You CAN confirm during the dash in, but it's really hard. I suggest committing to the WD back as you begin for now and then confirming out of WD back.

Focus on practicing specific things, or working on your B game.

What are specific things that you can work on in your B game? Is the point of the B game to map out every situation with a set of mixups that is easier to execute/earns bigger hits? Do you have to define it that specifically?

Do you do less wd to reposition in B game rather than dashes because wd has more inputs?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Imagine yourself with very bad reactions and how to make the most out of openings you can create for easy reward. It can also help to think of playing slower, or at least sometimes slower.


WD can be better since the lag downtime can give you time to look, whereas you tend to need to keep acting quickly out of dash. It can depend.

 

[Basod]

**I asked this questions in the wrong forum. I am referencing them to correct my mistake. I am sorry for the problems I have caused.**

I apologize for interrupting, but how do you do drifting aerials without c-stick? I have tried to do retreating fair with A and control stick, but it seems that I lose a 1/3 of my speed when doing it this way. It only seems to occur when trying to move in the direction opposite of the attack. Thank you and I apologize for any disrespectful or distracting behavior.
*Edit
I apologize for my mistake. I mistook this as the falco discussion forum. Please ignore this post. I apologize for my error.

It's all good. As far as my own practice and execution make me aware, you cannot help but lose drift distance when using A button. Perhaps there's some TAS-like stuff that could avoid this, but I don't think it could be easily/consistently hit. This is why I'm doing more C-stick practice on stream lol, you'll see it with Falco eventually too.

I apologize for my error and continue to distract from the main focus of this forum, but do you think that losing drift is important in gameplay style and stage positioning? I can understand the argument of it being disadvantageous when trying to get a quick punish in, but I do not understand how this could affect pressuring and neutral game.
*I will continue this discussion in the falco forum. I apologize for the distraction.

 

[Dr Peepee]

In neutral, covering less stage going forward or backward could result in a dropped punish, or a move that could be safe being unsafe as you don't get far enough away. It's also hard to fade forward initially then drift back fully to cover immediate actions but otherwise be safe in this way as well. For shield pressuring, you need to be able to hit shield or their action oos and otherwise position to avoid their oos moves, which can be made much more difficult or impossible by using the A button. Sometimes it doesn't matter, and you can play around it. But overall the C stick gives you more options as you have more total drifts available to you.

 

[PAWN1]

Hey PP, I've been practicing as you've outlined in your guide for the last couple weeks now and noticed improvement in my friendlies which is great! Something I haven't been able to find a great answer to while I was practicing moves while thinking about how they affect/influence my opponent was:

• short hopping
• back flipping
• wavedashing forwards
• wavedashing backwards

My current thinking for short hopping and how it influences an opponent is that it threatens a nair, dair, and laser which creates reactions you can abuse by wavelanding back, double jumping(and maybe wavelanding), or tomahawk grab/shine. And backflipping threatens bair instead of nair/dair. But I want to know what you think about how they influence the opponent. Also I just have no idea what wavedashing does to influence my opponent lol

 

[Dr Peepee]

Nice!

WD is complicated for Falco and should best be messed with after doing everything else. WD back opens up space and the lag gives the opponent time to confirm it though.

SH does threaten what you say, and for backflip for example if you jump in place they will see you can't go in anymore so they may reposition outside of Bair range. You have the answer basically: they will deal with moves or possible laser mixup accordingly. They could set up to PS a laser instead of outspace an aerial, and it may change depending on position or quickly they react for example.

 

[Basod]

You're right that definitions start to blend, so at some point they aren't the most useful beyond what your intent is in a given situation.

I define a bait as a way to give the opponent an opening or obvious cue or an advantage(if you fair from mid range then he knows you will be in lag and could be advantaged) such that they want to move in. They may not take this bait but only CONSIDER it, but it would still be a bait(in fact, not taking the bait could be another bait, etc). A bait need not be successful.
We use baits to put opponents into positions we have practiced, which give us a higher chance of winning. These situations ideally also give us a chance to beat their tools with ours more reliably. (at least if they do what you expect, what the meta says is common or good, etc...)

Your last paragraph is on the right track.


Edit: oh yeah, so you guys can see how I didn't always understand this, I thought I would attach an AIM conversation between Cactuar and myself in late 2011/early 2012.


wsflcactuar 10:26 pm
its not
the same way i complain about how
people view dash dancing
and just see running left and right
without seeing that its moving forward or away from the opponent and what you can do with that
sorry, meant to say
it is definitely underused*

drpeepee 10:28 pm
im incredibly interested in dash dancing and the way you use yours. did you end up assigning them roles with one dash forward being faster and meant to be an intimidating approach and the away one is slower and meant to lull the opponent into a false sense of security?

wsflcactuar 10:28 pm
yes
its all
in
the book

drpeepee 10:28 pm
the fact that you dont dd evenly is incredibly interesting
and it is???

wsflcactuar 10:28 pm
yes

drpeepee 10:28 pm
wow lol

wsflcactuar 10:28 pm
it is
a proper feint
is composed of two actions
a fast, big, attention drawing action
and a slow action
now
both of these actions happen within 1 beat
but they take up an uneven amount of space
your control over yourself
is what pushes you
from having a 50/50
attack/retreat timing
to a 60/40
or 70/30
or further
there is a limit
based on the distance you can travel at what speed
but dd is a 1 frame exchange of momentum

wsflcactuar 10:30 pm
so you can shift it crazy fast
man im such a nerd

drpeepee 10:31 pm
but

drpeepee 10:33 pm
do you assign forward as a number above 50 always? how do you adjust the timing based on conditioning and positioning? do you move forward more when your opponent is more defensive and do you keep your timing more evenly distributed when you're by the edge since you have less room to move and your opponent wants to attack/zone you in that position for example

wsflcactuar 10:33 pm
no, the numbers can be manipulated within the beat in whatever way you want
you do them at a pace
that you can interrupt at any point
with a fast dash forward and attack
within a half beat
or thats the ideal striking distance for a quick attack anyway
big leads
like a marth fsmash
count as a full beat alone
fast things like fox's dash sh nair
are a half beat
with a half beat fall+movement

drpeepee 10:34 pm
what is a beat?

wsflcactuar 10:34 pm
so a single sh nair + dash forward
like
in music
beats
its a measurement of time
its based on your own internal rhythm

wsflcactuar 10:35 pm
which isn't something i can explain easily
smash is extremely similar to actual fighting
in the sense that it creates internal rhythm in some players
and that rhythm usually syncs with that person's dd initially
but can spread to all of their actions with a character
like when you are playing fox
and you just get into the flow of
sh nair's back and forth
passing over the same spot
turning instantly and dashing back again once you land
doing it consistently
tightening it up
slowing it
you are basically making rhythm adjustments

wsflcactuar 10:37 pm
btw, i know **** i say can sound kinda crazy
but its just the way i define it to myself
just so i can explain it
internally its just like
feelings i have about things

drpeepee 10:40 pm
i get you but that is awful hard to break down in a simple way for me to apply to myself outside of making sure i have a difficult rhythm to follow and also one that can be altered to a difficult to follow extent
not your fault or anything but i understand and was just really curious about how you considered it haha

wsflcactuar 10:42 pm
haha
yeah
just

wsflcactuar 10:42 pm
read the book when you have time


Reading the book only somewhat helped, and I had to keep talking to him to explain it like this LOL. But yeah, this is why I don't recommend going off and messing with rhythm all that extensively since it's just a hard concept. Maybe when I can explain it better it won't be so bad?

edit 2: a proper feint to me is different from that, and it probably is to him now as well. We were working on it together even if he did understand way more of it at the time than I did. So don't get hung up on particulars.

Sorry for being prying into your personal affairs, but what is the book that cactus is referring to in your AIM conversation?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Tao of Jeet Kune Do. I do not recommend reading it.

 

[Basod]

Tao of Jeet Kune Do. I do not recommend reading it.

Why would you not recommend it? Should I not martial arts material for smash bros?

 

[Dr Peepee]

It can be useful such as when reading "the art of learning." However, I have seen TJKD and things in it mess people up for years instead.

 

[Basod]

It can be useful such as when reading "the art of learning." However, I have seen TJKD and things in it mess people up for years instead.

What else would you not recommend reading?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Uhhhh, that's the only thing besides anything psychological if you fear it could cause you to have a panic attack or make existing trauma worse I suppose. Generally I want people to read whatever even if it's difficult because it could empower them, but TJKD seems to confuse more than help.

 

[I_Am_GREYmatter__]

How do you all deal with floaties like Jigglypuff, Peach, Luigi, etc?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I deal with them by kicking and lasering them, and kicking them more in the air with my back kick.

 

[I_Am_GREYmatter__]

I deal with them by kicking and lasering them, and kicking them more in the air with my back kick.

Thank you, this helps out a lot.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

I deal with them by kicking and lasering them, and kicking them more in the air with my back kick.

Why do not many top marths do take laser jab or take laser side b that much? I see much more jumping, retreating to platforms, instant aerial, dash back, or even just holding shield. From what I've learned from 20xx take laser jab is super good because even if you do dash back to observe the first one they can do the second one to beat/trade with your aerial approach from there (ofc you can mixup the timing of when you cut your dash back but full dash back instant aerial in is what I'm talking about here), and if you laser instead of doing that dash back then the position simply resets, with them taking a bit of damage and you showing your willing to laser multiple times in a row and not play the first interaction that presents itself at close range. So overall I feel like the risk reward is rather good for marth even at close range, unless I'm missing something big.

Also, if I go in with nair and it gets soft hit jabbed, who is more favorable in that scenario? Does it depend on at what point in the swing I got jabbed at?

Edit: wow watching your marth guide and you demonstrated this exact position to talk about marth's range lol.

What does narrative analysis serve to do? If I do this type of analysis I come out of it not always knowing exactly what I learned but knowing I learned something. Whereas with prediction analysis I tend to consciously be more aware of what I learned. Does this suggest that predicting during analysis and then evaluating your prediction is a strictly better form of analysis than simply consciously narrating situations/watching them over and over again? Or do they have different benefits that's aren't exactly mutually exclusive?

I'm sure at least someone has recommended it to you, but have you considered using tap jump and c stick to do your shine turn around bairs that you practice so much? I find I get almost equal drift when I do that as when I do claw.

What is your hand health advice? Starting to get a little bit of pain in my right arm from grinding so much.

My summer melee grind just started so expect to see me a lot more on here : )

 

[Dr Peepee]

Marth's don't want to take the damage, and they want more guaranteed reward of aerial or grab. Maybe they just haven't labbed it, I dunno. I haven't exactly popularized Marth stuff recently lol.

Falco being closeish is favored off of soft hit jab usually because he can either shine or walk shine and hit or pressure.

I'd say prediction is better, but you can use the narrative/holistic explanation of what happened to reinforce your knowledge. Want to do macro and micro.

I am stubborn about my buttons, but I do need to C stick the Bair and many things so I will work on that part at least.

Relax, slow down and build speed slowly, perhaps watch your posture.

Good luck! I'll respond when I can.

 

[Malt]

I've been thinking about frame advantage lately and it feels like I'm missing something. If anyone can help me out, much appreciated:

So I entered this dilemma with the following assumption: any level of frame advantage is always advantageous in some capacity.

Currently, I disagree with that statement. To me, it feels like frame advantage is only beneficial if the frame advantage creates a guaranteed punish. But that sounds wrong, I just can't tell why.

When I say "creates a guaranteed punish", an example would be a falco shielding marth's fsmash - because the falco can react to the situation and get a guaranteed punish on the marth with wavedash oos into whatever. With this type of frame adv, it's totally obvious how the scenario is advantageous for the falco. This is the only type of frame adv. that makes clear sense to me.

But the frame adv. that seems to have much more of a role in getting openings/neutral is the "not directly punishable" frame adv. I'm gonna use an example from druggedfox's blog post on this :

Let’s talk about falcon vs. sheik, as this is the situation I was originally thinking about when I formalized this concept; in particular, I want to talk about the falcon neutral air vs. sheik forward tilt interaction. Falcon’s nair is an amazing anti air and has great utility in that it protects him/his landing while also threatening the opponent on the ground, but if he wants to use this tool he needs to find ways to interact positively with sheik’s ftilt; this is because sheik primarily wants to stay grounded in the matchup, and ftilt is her best grounded anti air option that hits in front of her. Sheik’s ftilt hits on frame 5, but the part of the move that will realistically hit falcon isn’t until frame 6. Falcon’s nair, on the other hand, hits on frame 7; he has 4 frames of jump squat, so it effectively has a 10 frame startup (and hits on frame 11). Comparing the two leads to the conclusion that for falcon to nair without losing to ftilt, he needs to be “+6” in neutral (11-6 = 5, so with a 5 frame advantage nair would hit on the same frame that the relevant part of ftilt hits, and trade).

This frame advantage can be achieved through many means, and how much advantage you have determines whether or not it is a good idea to challenge the opponent in any given situation. Let’s say sheik whiffs an ftilt while falcon does not take any action that puts him in lag (either he already finished a wavedash/just landed from jumping while her ftilt is recovering, or perhaps he was just dashing) but he isn’t in range to whiff punish with grab. Falcon may not be able to directly punish the ftilt, but he has still gained some sort of frame advantage: he can act before sheik can. If he is able to position himself close enough to sheik after she whiffs the ftilt and gets there with at least 6 frames to spare, suddenly his nair actually *beats* the ftilt option!

I don't understand how this information is applicable/how the scenario is 'good' for falcon. If I put myself in falcon's perspective, even though I technically have a +6 frame advantage, I don't see how that's any more advantageous to me than just being at '0' frame advantage - since there's nothing I can do that directly punishes sheik in 6 frames (usually). Sheik still has ways to beat anything I do, and vice-versa, so where does the advantage come from? What can be exploited by falcon?

TLDR: I don't want to extend this post too long, so I'll leave it at that for now. I'm really just looking for a way to recognize frame advantage as real, applicable advantage that can go into my decision making. To put it into falco terms, how am I at an advantage if I just lasered the opponent from a distance where I can't combo off of the laser? What exactly is it about that scenario that is 'better' for me than just standing at the same range without having laser'd?

EDIT: thought about it some more, and I think what I'm really asking is what makes certain positions advantageous/disadvantageous. Also, I've mostly been thinking about this in the context of the falco ditto. When I'm playing vs. a falco, I feel like there's never been a moment where I look at where I am on stage in relation to the other falco and think "this is skewed against me/skewed against them". I imagine that's probably the issue...

 

[Dr Peepee]

If both moves are equally fast, then Falcon's +6 is equal to a 0. Sheik needs to be in 6 frames of lag, OR be in some lag but also react late to give Falcon this advantage. Sheik being in 6 frames of lag means the +6 exists, which you can set up in neutral. The other one is more complicated but you can set that up as well, or even discourage Sheik from attacking by waiting and punishing her Ftilt sometimes, etc. The interaction of these two moves is a disadvantage for Falcon generally speaking, but he can create frame advantage through fakes in neutral or challenging Sheik's whiffs, or both.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Marth's don't want to take the damage, and they want more guaranteed reward of aerial or grab. Maybe they just haven't labbed it, I dunno. I haven't exactly popularized Marth stuff recently lol.

Falco being closeish is favored off of soft hit jab usually because he can either shine or walk shine and hit or pressure.

I'd say prediction is better, but you can use the narrative/holistic explanation of what happened to reinforce your knowledge. Want to do macro and micro.

I am stubborn about my buttons, but I do need to C stick the Bair and many things so I will work on that part at least.

Relax, slow down and build speed slowly, perhaps watch your posture.

Good luck! I'll respond when I can.

How do you categorize positions? For example I have very vague notions of side plat, top plat, scuffle, close, mid, far, corner, etc. I've found that even thinking of interactions in this simple way helps me see matches and adaptation more clearly because it's easier to identify a situation, their option, and then store that option under that category for next time. Such as saying to myself sheik dropped through the platform and faired which takes a while, and instead saying platform -> drop fair.

How do you productively watch matches in real time? I love watching tournaments or watching random matches while i'm eating/waiting in line for food etc but I want to be able to get more out of it.

Whats the difference between cycling through the options of a mixup, and purposefully selecting a certain option of a mixup based on what the opponent does?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think you have the right idea on categorization. I'd add stage-specific stuff to that(side FoD platform is not equal to side DL platform) and stuff like being close out of a dropped combo can be good.

Predict what happens or what adaptations will be made and observe. Decide what should happen in a matchup before the set and see how it plays out.

One doesn't take into account what the opponent is currently doing and what you want to do, and one does.

 

[DT Raw]

Yo Doc,

Im an ultimate player debating dropping it for melee.. however I havent played melee in over a decade and it was just for fun as a kid. The tech requirements scare the **** out of me.

If I were to pick up falco, what should i focus on first? Ill never be a pro or have the time to be great but id like to maybe become a mid level player at my local scene like i am in ultimate. What does the Dr. order?

 

[Dr Peepee]

It's all good man, with practice it won't be an issue for super long.

Focus on WD, laser, waveshine, shine grab, AC Bair, SHFFLs, and some basic combos first. That will get you going.

 

[DT Raw]

Ok thanks, when u say shine grab is that shine into jump cancel grab?

Also what makes bair autocancel is it full hop or short hop that auto cancels it?

 

[Dr Peepee]

That's right.

You short hop and do a Bair right away so it cancels before you hit the ground. This is different from a SHFFL because a SHFFL requires an L-cancel, so you'd need to do a later Bair for that.

 

[DT Raw]

And no ff on the autocancel sh bair i assume? Ok thx that is where I shall start

 

[Dr Peepee]

No need to FF the AC Bair, but you can play with it if you want. Good luck

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

No need to FF the AC Bair, but you can play with it if you want. Good luck

How does dash back bair timing interact with fox mixup of running shine and full hop fade in/in place? Like if the fox runs at you then does full hop (and then drift forward) outside of your up tilt/bair in place range but then you do dash back bair. Are there certain timings of the dash back and the bair that beat different combinations of fox's mixup of those options I mentioned?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I need more specifics, it depends on when Fox jumps and when you Bair and such.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

I need more specifics, it depends on when Fox jumps and when you Bair and such.

This position at 2:22 for example https://vods.co/v/whqszh