PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[MambaGreenFalco]

How should Falco be guarding the stage against peach on the edge? How does this change when he's at a percent to cc peach's getup attack and when he's not?

After shining should shield pressure be limited to fade away high aerials to discourage aggressive oos options, shine grab, and double shine? Is there anything I'm forgetting here?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Being out of range of her up-B is important, but you can also move toward her after she grabs the edge to punish her getups. As you noted this gets a bit easier at lower percent. I think sitting just around the range of her quick getup attack is good and priming for Dair/Bair, or dash Dair/Nair vs her edgejump is good. It's okay to shift position some to encourage her to up-B and refresh if you think you can hit her as she does so or take the edge from her. It helps to practice hitting her getup options.

If you're somewhat-to-fully spaced then you can do mid or late aerials for pressure, and you can also do those if you're deeper if you've discouraged immediate OOS options. Double shine and shine grab and immediate retreating aerial are fairly good in most situations when closer though. WD back and FH may be okay to escape sometimes.

 

[roysrevengefgc]

what the best way to learn character match ups PP?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Look at their good moves, in place approaching and retreating and see how to beat them individually. Then work on beating some of their combinations. Putting most time into punishing them will give you best returns in addition to this.

 

[Birdsnest]

This is probably a common question but what are falco's safe tools againtst fox and falco full hop?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Approaching or in place or drifting back?

 

[Birdsnest]

In place and approaching are the ones im having the most trouble with.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Approaching you can Utilt, Bair, CC if they Nair and sometimes Dair, retreating laser, sometimes shine OOS. In place you have to be close enough but you can sometimes Bair or laser the landing and pressure or grab. You can Nair/Dair over their landing if close enough. Sometimes you can laser forward to shine or grab or pressure. You could probably Ftilt or Fsmash their landing too but it isn't too common. You can also (dash) FH Nair/Dair or Bair to intercept their FH or you can DJ over it to Dair them.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Being out of range of her up-B is important, but you can also move toward her after she grabs the edge to punish her getups. As you noted this gets a bit easier at lower percent. I think sitting just around the range of her quick getup attack is good and priming for Dair/Bair, or dash Dair/Nair vs her edgejump is good. It's okay to shift position some to encourage her to up-B and refresh if you think you can hit her as she does so or take the edge from her. It helps to practice hitting her getup options.

If you're somewhat-to-fully spaced then you can do mid or late aerials for pressure, and you can also do those if you're deeper if you've discouraged immediate OOS options. Double shine and shine grab and immediate retreating aerial are fairly good in most situations when closer though. WD back and FH may be okay to escape sometimes.

If peach does regular getup shield while I'm spaced outside of her getup attack, should I be looking to dash early sh dair and then fade away to avoid shield grab but also hit her? Is that possible?

I want to start looking into Falco corner pressure, including what's good on all characters and options I should be leaning towards in each matchup/stage etc. This is obviously a huge topic so what kind of process do you think I should follow to do this. I could stick with the simple one of analysis - shadowbox - friendlies - reevaluation but I'm just always trying to reevaluate my process of learning so thats why I ask.

Are there any general rules I should be following when corner pressuring/holding stage? Are Falco stage control concepts different in anyway from the rest of the cast?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think you can do that.

Look at the positions and start with less complexity. FD, you're close and they are close to edge so they can't back up, you have frame advantage.

Falco has laser so the time it takes to laser, plus laser advantage, make him different. He's also slower than the other top tiers. He also has a massive FH which is a bit different from Fox. Besides that it's relatively similar. Outspacing with Bair can be good just as outspacing any cornered opponent is good for example.

 

[Kotastic]

You said earlier that falco's lasers slowing down his opponent gives falco the edge in terms of speed, rivaling fox's.

Why is this speed important? This is a stark contrast with Marth where you encourage simplicity and "less is more." What's the difference with Falco?

 

[Dr Peepee]

When Falco moves, he can't go as far or cover ground(hitboxes etc) as quickly as Marth. So while Marth can invalidate simply by being in a specific position, for Falco he needs more frame advantage to usually abuse his opponent. That being said, you still need to keep it simple when possible as Falco but he has more ways to attack and usually needs laser advantage, so he usually has to be doing something. Basically, Falco is slow and we need to mitigate that.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

What type of language should be used when describing melee and evaluating interactions in order to stay detached and avoid judgments of oneself?

Does your training regimen change when you have large breaks between tournaments?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think one of the easiest things to do is avoid using "good" or "bad." You could say "achieved desired result" or not as one replacement. Sometimes you may need compassionate language if you feel yourself getting judgmental so you may say that was okay given circumstances or something similar. Looking at what happened out of what could happen is a good way to look at the game itself instead of what you think it should be.

Training can be more exploratory when taking more time between events. You may want to test out more ideas and spend longer refining and experimenting instead of getting a few new ideas and refining immediately for tournament.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

I think one of the easiest things to do is avoid using "good" or "bad." You could say "achieved desired result" or not as one replacement. Sometimes you may need compassionate language if you feel yourself getting judgmental so you may say that was okay given circumstances or something similar. Looking at what happened out of what could happen is a good way to look at the game itself instead of what you think it should be.

Training can be more exploratory when taking more time between events. You may want to test out more ideas and spend longer refining and experimenting instead of getting a few new ideas and refining immediately for tournament.

What makes falco stronger with frame advantage rather than positional advantage? In what matchups is this more pronounced in? I’m guessing marth.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Positional advantage is still good, but he can't always capitalize on it without lasers or the threat of lasers vs high tiers. Frame advantage mitigates his speed/range disadvantage he has vs other good characters.

It's most pronounced vs Marth Sheik and Fox.

 

[woglofungi]

Hey,

I just wanted to ask if the optimal order of things to learn for a new falco main would be basic tech skill (Short Hop, Fast Fall, L-cancel, SHFFLing, Wavedashing/landing, Dash Dancing, Directional Influence (DI), Teching, Jump Cancel Grab (JC grab), crouch cancelling) and then once i have those down and can apply them, learn punish game or falco specific tech before trying to improve punish game. Also, during the phase where I learn my basic tech, should I be playing netplay matches or practising alone entirely? Trying to figure out the optimal order of practise has really been confusing me lol.

 

[AnonymousID]

Hey PP, I have some falco ditto questions.

1. If I shoot a laser that hits and land like 1 dash away, should I like always nair/dair? I feel as if the only thing falco can do after being hit w/ laser is shield/roll, and everything else would just get hit by an instant aerial (I'm not entirely sure how safe on shield a aerial fast enough to stuff everything would be though).

Also depending on your spacing after you land with a laser, you and your opponent have access to different options, but I have a hard time reacting to my spacing after I land because of how fast you need to act. Do I need to just predict how close I'm going to be after the laser? or maybe react to what my opponent is doing while I'm in the air?

2. I know doing stuff out of laser hit stun is really important, like jumping/dashing away/shielding/utilt etc, but I feel like a lot of the time where I get hit by a laser I don't expect it (maybe because I'm either trying to laser them or trying to bait out a move with dash dancing or just not expecting a laser). Since I don't expect it, I react a lot slower allowing the other falco to just aerial me before I can do anything. What can I do to respond more quickly?

3. I noticed that some falcos just crouch under my nairs which makes me think if I should just dair more often. I'm still not really sure when to nair/dair. I know nair is safer on shield and dair is usually better on non shielding opponents. Late dairs also seem to be cover both scenarios which makes me think I should only use that but that doesn't seem right.

4. What do you think of intentionally letting myself get hit by a laser so I can do something after like utilt? It seems very rewarding if I have a read on what they like to do, but I feel like I'm just putting myself in a really bad spot.

 

[Malt]

How do you guys approach tech chasing marth (off of dair knockdowns mainly)?

Something I'm really struggling with right now is finding a way to consistently punish missed tech. I've experimented with dsmash because it felt like the easiest thing to do on reaction, but dsmash really isn't very rewarding except at very high percents. I've tried messing with turnaround uptilt too, but this made it feel impossible to cover tech rolls, so it didn't really feel like a solution, just solving one problem and making another.

I'm still not sure if run up shield is good either. It seems like a good counter to getup attack, but I find that sometimes it shield pokes me (this is probably just me being ignorant of the hitboxes but idk). And this also brings the same issue of not being able to cover the rolls.

This problem feels the worst when marth misses tech on a platform and I'm beneath him. Sure I could bair on reaction but if marth is below like 80% this feels really unrewarding.


I guess what I'm asking is: is there a way to consistently get strong punishes on marth missing tech, or do I have to settle for single hits and make reads from there?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hey,

I just wanted to ask if the optimal order of things to learn for a new falco main would be basic tech skill (Short Hop, Fast Fall, L-cancel, SHFFLing, Wavedashing/landing, Dash Dancing, Directional Influence (DI), Teching, Jump Cancel Grab (JC grab), crouch cancelling) and then once i have those down and can apply them, learn punish game or falco specific tech before trying to improve punish game. Also, during the phase where I learn my basic tech, should I be playing netplay matches or practising alone entirely? Trying to figure out the optimal order of practise has really been confusing me lol.

I'd say learning basic tech and then going toward punish game when possible is a good route. Netplay is okay to implement what you're doing, but I'd say you want to put emphasis on basic tech. The most important thing is to start, and then see how your strategy affects your growth. There will always be something to do.

Hey PP, I have some falco ditto questions.

1. If I shoot a laser that hits and land like 1 dash away, should I like always nair/dair? I feel as if the only thing falco can do after being hit w/ laser is shield/roll, and everything else would just get hit by an instant aerial (I'm not entirely sure how safe on shield a aerial fast enough to stuff everything would be though).

Also depending on your spacing after you land with a laser, you and your opponent have access to different options, but I have a hard time reacting to my spacing after I land because of how fast you need to act. Do I need to just predict how close I'm going to be after the laser? or maybe react to what my opponent is doing while I'm in the air?

2. I know doing stuff out of laser hit stun is really important, like jumping/dashing away/shielding/utilt etc, but I feel like a lot of the time where I get hit by a laser I don't expect it (maybe because I'm either trying to laser them or trying to bait out a move with dash dancing or just not expecting a laser). Since I don't expect it, I react a lot slower allowing the other falco to just aerial me before I can do anything. What can I do to respond more quickly?

3. I noticed that some falcos just crouch under my nairs which makes me think if I should just dair more often. I'm still not really sure when to nair/dair. I know nair is safer on shield and dair is usually better on non shielding opponents. Late dairs also seem to be cover both scenarios which makes me think I should only use that but that doesn't seem right.

4. What do you think of intentionally letting myself get hit by a laser so I can do something after like utilt? It seems very rewarding if I have a read on what they like to do, but I feel like I'm just putting myself in a really bad spot.

1. He could punish you OOS if you instantly do it, and if you don't then delayed Nair could lose to take laser turnaround Utilt. So you have to mix things like grab and Bair and immediate aerials etc imo.

Yeah you need to predict in the air as much as possible, and you can watch after landing without doing anything early on to see what they like doing and use that information later. You can guess a lot when in the air.

2. I would practice getting hit by lasers then acting. Take laser dash, turnaround Utilt, shield Bair OOS, whatever.

3. Late Dair takes longer to come out and doesn't stick as far forward, so there are pros and cons. But yeah crouch is surprisingly an issue in Falco dittos. I would just laser if you react quickly enough and are close, or do a delayed aerial if you react, or do a spaced early Nair/Dair if you're unsure. You could even dash back to see what they do then dash in mid aerial if you want.

4. It can be okay sometimes, but only if you have a read like you said. Betting on that in bad spots isn't a great overall strategy, but an okay mixup.

How do you guys approach tech chasing marth (off of dair knockdowns mainly)?

Something I'm really struggling with right now is finding a way to consistently punish missed tech. I've experimented with dsmash because it felt like the easiest thing to do on reaction, but dsmash really isn't very rewarding except at very high percents. I've tried messing with turnaround uptilt too, but this made it feel impossible to cover tech rolls, so it didn't really feel like a solution, just solving one problem and making another.

I'm still not sure if run up shield is good either. It seems like a good counter to getup attack, but I find that sometimes it shield pokes me (this is probably just me being ignorant of the hitboxes but idk). And this also brings the same issue of not being able to cover the rolls.

This problem feels the worst when marth misses tech on a platform and I'm beneath him. Sure I could bair on reaction but if marth is below like 80% this feels really unrewarding.


I guess what I'm asking is: is there a way to consistently get strong punishes on marth missing tech, or do I have to settle for single hits and make reads from there?

You're asking about all tech chasing then, otherwise you know shine and Utilt solve your problem already. And that's pretty darn hard for Falco to do, so I'd avoid it and just try to tech chase on platforms or by the edge of the stage so he can't do a full tech roll in all directions. Sometimes dash attack can get you what you need, sometimes SH Dair or Nair. You can also Fsmash in certain positions. Bair when Marth is on a platform is okay you just need to set up to edgeguard or Bair him some more when he goes high. You can also tech chase shine if you're below him on a platform you just need to (dash) FH shine him.

If you find this unsatisfying then Mango makes this stuff pretty simple when he plays so you may benefit from watching him tech chase.

 

[jedimeister007]

is falcos uair a consistent and viable way to catch a Fox trying to fh when at close range on the way up? the situation i'm mainly thinking of is when you laser a fox's shield, and he fullhops oos to try and land with a uair or drill to punish your approach. i've had a good amount of success punishing and pressuring their landing, but it seems like stuffing their jump with an approaching sh uair could be better

if a fox tries keeping me in the corner and I want to roll out safely, is it good to laser them in the air if they're running in and nairing so it puts them in an awkward spot, or is it generally better just to straight up roll and not challenge the approach at all?

something somewhat related to the last question, what is a good way to judge what to do after rolling? what i mean is i find myself after rolling in a position where the only good seeming option is to roll again, mainly in the same direction, or fulllhop. i feel like there are situations that shine, utilt, spotdodge or jab(?) would be better, but I can't really feel when to do which, and it's almost like i choose the wrong option every time and just default to rolling 2x. it works fine since i'm playing lower level people, but if i have to play much better people it doesn't seem choosing from 2 options after a roll will work lol. i guess my question is more specifically, what do you look for after rolling and how do you know if you want to challenge the opponent or not

Bair when Marth is on a platform is okay you just need to set up to edgeguard or Bair him some more when he goes high. You can also tech chase shine if you're below him on a platform you just need to (dash) FH shine him.

how do you like shine > bair instead of just bairing? i've been experimenting with using shine bairs in place of normal bairs and am a little curious your opinion.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Positional advantage is still good, but he can't always capitalize on it without lasers or the threat of lasers vs high tiers. Frame advantage mitigates his speed/range disadvantage he has vs other good characters.

It's most pronounced vs Marth Sheik and Fox.

i've asked about this position many times before but I still don't feel comfortable in it and I want to know exactly what to do without question. Dash forward feels awkward to me in this position although I think a mixup of dash forward dair or dash forward laser in place could be pretty good. I would probably either do that or half dash back laser or dash back for observation/confirm what they do and then play the position from there.

Is this particular spacing worse for falco because he's in marth's jab range? I don't think I would laser again immediately in place because of that.

If you're curious as to what actually happens here is the vod https://vods.co/v/jtbhjn

 

[Malt]

i've asked about this position many times before but I still don't feel comfortable in it and I want to know exactly what to do without question.

Imo this is a flawed way to approach the situation. There isn't going to be a single thing that you can do without question because it is a mixup. You have frame advantage which is great but you don't have any moves that true combo off of laser at that spacing so you are absolutely making a read no matter what.

The good thing about this situation is that like I said, you have frame advantage so marth is the one that has to guess what you're going to do (you're in control of the mixup in a sense)

I don't want to say too much besides that because I might be misinterpreting the intent of your post. But what I'd do in that spot is probably a mix of laser in place, sh late nair to cover buffer shield, and wavedash back/dashaway (or just stand still and do nothing for like a second to see if marth will flinch)

edit: also @PP thanks for the recommendation to watch mango tech chasing, it's already been helping me out a lot and I've only watched a couple sets

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Imo this is a flawed way to approach the situation. There isn't going to be a single thing that you can do without question because it is a mixup. You have frame advantage which is great but you don't have any moves that true combo off of laser at that spacing so you are absolutely making a read no matter what.

The good thing about this situation is that like I said, you have frame advantage so marth is the one that has to guess what you're going to do (you're in control of the mixup in a sense)

I don't want to say too much besides that because I might be misinterpreting the intent of your post. But what I'd do in that spot is probably a mix of laser in place, sh late nair to cover buffer shield, and wavedash back/dashaway (or just stand still and do nothing for like a second to see if marth will flinch)

edit: also @PP thanks for the recommendation to watch mango tech chasing, it's already been helping me out a lot and I've only watched a couple sets

Through rereading it I can see how I came off that way. Yeah I understand it's a mixup so I'm looking for falco's main options in the situation. For positions I don't like, I prefer to have a conscious understanding of every option so that even if I'm not playing well I can still manage in those positions with a set of options. That's really what I was trying to get across. I'll look in the future to clarify that though

 

[jedimeister007]

Imo this is a flawed way to approach the situation. There isn't going to be a single thing that you can do without question because it is a mixup. You have frame advantage which is great but you don't have any moves that true combo off of laser at that spacing so you are absolutely making a read no matter what.

i agree that you can't really find a "correct" answer to a situation, but I'm pretty run JC shine or just walk forward shine would be really hard to deal with. it would most likely stuff a jab/ftilt by the marth, or if he shields you could grab out of the shine? i guess rolling in would beat walk up shine, but it looks like that's the only option and even so you still have frame advantage

 

[woglofungi]

I'd say learning basic tech and then going toward punish game when possible is a good route. Netplay is okay to implement what you're doing, but I'd say you want to put emphasis on basic tech. The most important thing is to start, and then see how your strategy affects your growth. There will always be something to do.

How can i practice basic tech? Like, do I just try and do it 100 times in a row or something?

 

[Malt]

Through rereading it I can see how I came off that way. Yeah I understand it's a mixup so I'm looking for falco's main options in the situation. For positions I don't like, I prefer to have a conscious understanding of every option so that even if I'm not playing well I can still manage in those positions with a set of options. That's really what I was trying to get across. I'll look in the future to clarify that though

Ah ok gotcha.

i agree that you can't really find a "correct" answer to a situation, but I'm pretty run JC shine or just walk forward shine would be really hard to deal with. it would most likely stuff a jab/ftilt by the marth, or if he shields you could grab out of the shine? i guess rolling in would beat walk up shine, but it looks like that's the only option and even so you still have frame advantage

Yeah at first glance I thought run up/walk up shine might be a good option to threaten, but marth definitely has ways to deal with it in this spot. Even when marth's this far in the corner, a lot of marths will gladly dashback and whiff punish grab you. Or if not that, marth probably has enough time to SH/FH in any direction and that opens up new stuff. Plus falco's percent matters a bit too, because the threat of dtilt/jab changes based on that (can you CC/ASDI it or not).
But yeah if you think marth is going to still be in place (either shielding or not) after taking that laser, run up shine seems pretty strong. I'd just be really cautious with it in this particular spot because of the threat of dthrow into gimp (or even upthrow platform combos for that matter). Not saying I would never do run up shine, but I think it'd rarely be my primary choice.

I think my overall goal in this spot would be to try and get marth to flinch/swing and then whiff punish, or to try to push him just a little further into the corner so he can't dashback (while also not surrendering the stage I have). But a lot of it depends on how likely I think it is that the marth will shield/retreat vs. roll in/dash in

 

[Dr Peepee]

is falcos uair a consistent and viable way to catch a Fox trying to fh when at close range on the way up? the situation i'm mainly thinking of is when you laser a fox's shield, and he fullhops oos to try and land with a uair or drill to punish your approach. i've had a good amount of success punishing and pressuring their landing, but it seems like stuffing their jump with an approaching sh uair could be better

if a fox tries keeping me in the corner and I want to roll out safely, is it good to laser them in the air if they're running in and nairing so it puts them in an awkward spot, or is it generally better just to straight up roll and not challenge the approach at all?

something somewhat related to the last question, what is a good way to judge what to do after rolling? what i mean is i find myself after rolling in a position where the only good seeming option is to roll again, mainly in the same direction, or fulllhop. i feel like there are situations that shine, utilt, spotdodge or jab(?) would be better, but I can't really feel when to do which, and it's almost like i choose the wrong option every time and just default to rolling 2x. it works fine since i'm playing lower level people, but if i have to play much better people it doesn't seem choosing from 2 options after a roll will work lol. i guess my question is more specifically, what do you look for after rolling and how do you know if you want to challenge the opponent or not



how do you like shine > bair instead of just bairing? i've been experimenting with using shine bairs in place of normal bairs and am a little curious your opinion.

You need to be directly next to them to Uair and in that case you'd often be better off just grabbing or shining or even jabbing them when they try to jump. If you have to dash and want to catch their jump, then Nair is often your best bet, or Bair if you're fairly close. Also the Uair gets bodied way harder if you're wrong, and even if you did hit them on the way up you may hit the inside hitbox and get no punish, or even get punished yourself. So yes I don't think it's a good idea.

Lasering their Nair if you can do a mid height laser or a low one as they get close can be good for giving you advantage, but if you're sure they will Nair you could either run up shield to shine oos if they hit high or you could just roll. You could also FH in the corner and come down and hit their shield as they land if you're early.

I look for how much time I have and how far I am. If I could attack then I keep the idea open, or even if I slightly have disadvantage but they may chase down a roll or try to grab a shield. But if it's too bad then I'll just roll again. Sometimes I double roll if I haven't been doing it so much as well.

That's fine too but you want to be good at it, as missing the shine Bair could let them out of the punish completely. It's also better at higher percents and higher mid percents.

i've asked about this position many times before but I still don't feel comfortable in it and I want to know exactly what to do without question. Dash forward feels awkward to me in this position although I think a mixup of dash forward dair or dash forward laser in place could be pretty good. I would probably either do that or half dash back laser or dash back for observation/confirm what they do and then play the position from there.

Is this particular spacing worse for falco because he's in marth's jab range? I don't think I would laser again immediately in place because of that.

If you're curious as to what actually happens here is the vod https://vods.co/v/jtbhjn

Well a high laser hit here so that's not so good. But anyway you can laser in place here probably since you're just outside of jab range, which is an important place to be. You could instant aerial and beat jab, or wait in place and hit the jab lag, or dash back dash in aerial to beat jab lag and also see if he tried to do something else out of dash back. There is no perfect answer. If you're inside jab range then yeah you either need to fully commit in or back up a bit, but I guess you could also walk Ftilt or something if you really wanted to for some reason.

How can i practice basic tech? Like, do I just try and do it 100 times in a row or something?

Yeah that's one way. Also if you're WD'ing you want to do back and forward, and also facing back and forward as you do it for example. No need to spam or go super fast, build speed gradually and make sure each individual action is mindful. It also helps to break down the option and do it in parts like doing SH aerial then with FF then with L cancel just to feel the different parts. It's also useful to think about how each technique expands your options and also how it threatens the opponent as a result, so like laser forward gives you frame advantage and how does that make the opponent respond?

 

[MultipLe]

From the perspective of Peach playing against a Falco, I have two questions.
1. What are some overlooked opportunities/situations to leverage the fact i have a turnip in hand?
Right now i mainly throw them when falco comes down from a laser or when it forces him to jump when I have more than half of the stage to retreat to. I feel like my local friends give me more opportunities than they should to pull turnips, but I'm not making as good of a use of that as i could.

2. Does anyone have examples of ways i could preemptively or reactively do to punish falco when i have a solid idea of where and when the falco I'm against is going to laser?
Right now I often only get to punish him through powershielding the laser and forcing him to react to the laser interrupting him. I know for a fact that I'm missing out on positional advantages and put myself in too many slightly advantageous rps-feeling situations from having the lazy, low cost powershield response most times.
Thanks in advance if anyone has some ideas or examples!

 

[Dr Peepee]

Waiting a bit to throw a turnip so you can hit him as he rises for laser is good. If you stop him from lasering out of fear of this later, you could go in and get even more turnip advantage sometimes.

Dash attack is a good way to punish lasers, and you can also float over them and pressure him sometimes.

 

[roysrevengefgc]

PPMD, what are your thoughts on using Tech skill? there are a lot of people who i have seen improve fast using little to no tech but i get a ear full when i dont bother practicing tech. Ex. Wavedashing, Hax Dashing, and etc. Is it possible to be a top player without focusing so much on using tech and just learning match ups/getting better at reads? learning tech is something i have been on the fence about, feels like i have to spend more time learning tech than actually practicing the essentials. Is tech a requirement for better mind games, survival, or just extending combos? If you had to recommend some tech skill to practice to improve your mind games and survival that is a absolute necessity, what would you recommend?

 

[Dr Peepee]

It kind of depends on character. Falco is one of the more tech-intensive characters in the game, while Puff is one of the least. But even with extra factors like these, you still need a baseline of tech to do what you want. So I think that basic tech practice daily is good. Tech practice also helps you make the most of your tools and helps you connect with them, both of which are pretty useful in any matchup and in understanding your own character. That being said, people can easily overfocus on technical ability in their interest of being fast or cool so you don't need to overdo it. Tech should serve you.

Wavedash, SHFFL, anything character-specific like SHL, edgedash or something useful around the edge is probably helpful as well.

I think what would help you as you want to apply a lot is taking these things you practice and begin practicing using them as part of mixup strategies for matchups after practicing a while. So after practicing SHL and SHFFL you can then practice doing a laser and then doing an approaching aerial as fast as possible, mixed with a wait to beat their counter, or a dash back Bair to beat their approach. And that is how tech can serve you and be good practice.

 

[Gasher]

@PP , what do you think about falcos shieldpressure in this meta and what are his main mixups? also im very curious what you think of westballz pressure vs double(multi)shine. I struggle to settle on main mixups ingame, i kind of dislike shinegrab cuz i dont get much out of the grab except in the corner with fthrow. do you think uthrow should still be used even after the SDI counterplay? My main options on shield rn are multishines, westballz pressure when im not confident enough in my multishines, shine grab and shine laser. ive been trying around with retreating aerials aswell but to be honest i kind of dont even understand why i pressure shield in the first place besides getting the advantage of having a chance to shieldpoke with high aerials. would really love to know your opinion of what falco should be doing on shield, if maybe empty pressure is underused and what i should be looking more into.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Most people shield pressure because their approach got shielded and don't really see the point in what to do there next. Shield pressure is done to set up a hit for a combo, decrease their shield, maintain stage position while threatening, maintain momentum, or some combination of these. So sometimes when you hit a shield you might just want to space aerials and that's fine, but other times you may want to go for a shield poke or a read/setup on hitting their exposed body or them coming OOS. It's kind of up to you.

I think the main mixups include spacing Nair/Dair/Bair on shield, mixed up aerials in place or retreating along with shine, shine grab, double shine(sometimes westballz shines), and occasionally things like empty lands or waits. Shine grab and double shine are pretty important together so they can be good to talk about. If you can punish off of throws(even if not directly, so sometimes that SDI out of Uthrow is okay if you can FH/DJ Bair them after they jump away) then they may want to do something else after you shine, which makes double shine more useful. Westballz shine can be okay here but can be too slow sometimes or telegraph your next inputs so that you get punished. For most opponents it probably won't matter though. At lower percent it's harder to get punishes off of throws on some characters, so you have to skew more toward regular pressure. This can allow you to throw them again as they may not be able to react to the throw if they aren't expecting it anymore. Regular pressure can be spaced aerials and aerials and shines, double shines etc. You don't need to spam on shields all of the time to be effective, as you'll see Mango utilize one rep of shield pressure then he backs off which is strong.

Anyway this is all a lot already and a decent starting place even if it is disorganized. Let me know if it helps.

 

[Gasher]

Most people shield pressure because their approach got shielded and don't really see the point in what to do there next. Shield pressure is done to set up a hit for a combo, decrease their shield, maintain stage position while threatening, maintain momentum, or some combination of these. So sometimes when you hit a shield you might just want to space aerials and that's fine, but other times you may want to go for a shield poke or a read/setup on hitting their exposed body or them coming OOS. It's kind of up to you.

I think the main mixups include spacing Nair/Dair/Bair on shield, mixed up aerials in place or retreating along with shine, shine grab, double shine(sometimes westballz shines), and occasionally things like empty lands or waits. Shine grab and double shine are pretty important together so they can be good to talk about. If you can punish off of throws(even if not directly, so sometimes that SDI out of Uthrow is okay if you can FH/DJ Bair them after they jump away) then they may want to do something else after you shine, which makes double shine more useful. Westballz shine can be okay here but can be too slow sometimes or telegraph your next inputs so that you get punished. For most opponents it probably won't matter though. At lower percent it's harder to get punishes off of throws on some characters, so you have to skew more toward regular pressure. This can allow you to throw them again as they may not be able to react to the throw if they aren't expecting it anymore. Regular pressure can be spaced aerials and aerials and shines, double shines etc. You don't need to spam on shields all of the time to be effective, as you'll see Mango utilize one rep of shield pressure then he backs off which is strong.

Anyway this is all a lot already and a decent starting place even if it is disorganized. Let me know if it helps.

thank you so much! its a confirmation of my knowledge and morally a boost to use things i doubted. defo wanna ask you more stuff in the future. I wanna get good. Its gonna be hard from the EU but im confident my hard work will pay off. Expect me to bombard you a little more in the future (ps: you look rly good rn judging from your interview, good job on getting healthy again!)

 

[Dr Peepee]

Thank you very much! And you can ask me whatever, I'm always looking to help motivated people =)

 

[jedimeister007]

not sure if others have experienced this, but i've got a weird and new problem. in the past my punish game has been my strongest aspect, then edge guards, then pretty much everything else. over these past 1-2 months i've really been working on my neutral, holding stage position, learning how to shark and punishing habits which have gotten 20x better, but now i've noticed my punish game is way worse and i have a much harder time edge guarding. i think it's in part because i'm starting to play people w better di, recoveries, edge dashes, etc. but i can tell i'm not adapting in these situations like i was before. is it because i'm focusing too hard on neutral and is that even bad? i figured my punish game would suffer from focusing on other things, but now i'm only getting 20-40% per opening when i know i should be killing them or dealing WAY more damage. idk if i just need to keep focusing on my neutral until i can also think about other things, or if that's not a healthy approach.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

not sure if others have experienced this, but i've got a weird and new problem. in the past my punish game has been my strongest aspect, then edge guards, then pretty much everything else. over these past 1-2 months i've really been working on my neutral, holding stage position, learning how to shark and punishing habits which have gotten 20x better, but now i've noticed my punish game is way worse and i have a much harder time edge guarding. i think it's in part because i'm starting to play people w better di, recoveries, edge dashes, etc. but i can tell i'm not adapting in these situations like i was before. is it because i'm focusing too hard on neutral and is that even bad? i figured my punish game would suffer from focusing on other things, but now i'm only getting 20-40% per opening when i know i should be killing them or dealing WAY more damage. idk if i just need to keep focusing on my neutral until i can also think about other things, or if that's not a healthy approach.

I’ve experienced this before to an extent, and I found that it came from a combination of playing better players like you mentioned, but also combined with the fact that you will get different kinds of openings because your neutral has changed so much. The solution was pretty simple for me, I just added a little bit of punish game to my routine each day, and it paid off a lot because just like you I already had a pretty great base for my punish game.

 

[ibex94]

Hey Dr Peepee ,

I watched your interview with Tafo last week and that pushed me to finally stop just lurking on smashboards and finally make an account. Very excited for your return

This was a message I originally posted in the falco discord, but after thinking about it, I would much rather see what you thought about it since I have the utmost respect for you as a player and your ability to relax yourself in high stress situations. The following is about my issue with maintaining my composure when playing a certain type of player.

Discord message:
So, I have something to say about this MU and am wondering if there are others who can sympathize.. I have a friend I’ve been playing with the past 4 years or so who’s a falcon main. We have developed a friendly rivalry between us and since we started playing I’ve improved a lot.. I used to get 4 stocked by him consistently, he would always read my techs and it would completely demoralize me.. I had never been read so hard like that before.
Now, even though we’re pretty much even skill- wise, it doesn’t change how I feel when we play. He’s really read heavy (as many falcon mains are) and rides with momentum really really well. He’s one of the few people who when I play them, I feel myself getting triggered at any stock they take from me, even if I’m in the lead! And it’s like, even though I don’t verbalize it, I can tell that he picks up on it and capitalizes on it.. he can just tell I feel defeated or frustrated, and it just makes me even more flustered.. it’s a vicious cycle. I’ve looked into relaxation techniques, meditation, deep breathing, and only focusing on my breathing and my physical body, I’ve done research on the inner game of tennis, have tried to practice the bounce-hop method, but this tendency I have to overthink things and be too hard on myself while playing opponents like this is just so powerful, especially while we’re in tournament. It’s like he brings out this self-loathing that I have deep inside whenever we play. I’m not sure how else to explain it.


What do you think about all this? Does it sound like.. something you’ve heard others experience before? Do you know of anything that has been able to help others with issues like this?
Here’s an example of one of our sets. I’m playing fox in the set but plan on going falco next time we play in tournament since I feel like I understand his punish game more. I think the mental block still shows in this set though.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=81bRcw6beww

 

[jedimeister007]

i have a mentality/prep question. in a couple of days, i'm going to a very interesting tournament where i can play various top 20 players for hours a day for 2-3 days and i just want to know what i should think about/focus on to prepare for performing my best and learning the most. this is going to be my first time playing high-top level players and am actually more nervous and have more anxiety than i thought i would lol. i don't have any specific things to mention and sorry for this being general, but this is my first time having performance going into an event and just don't want to ruin this really good opportunity. again, sorry it's general but any advice is appreciated