PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[LowQualityJpeg]

Hi PP.

How do I consistently summon up the willpower to do stuff?

I feel like I rely on inconsistent bursts of motivation or outside factors to get me motivated and do things. I want to change this, how should I go about doing so?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hm I'm thinking of a couple different ways to answer this. First I would suggest seeing what your goals for the game are and why they matter to you. Do they excite you? If not you may want to rework them to get you more engaged. Thinking about why you like Melee/competing may be helpful here, as would be drawing on the experience of those you look up to, such as a pro athlete or businessman. But you may find the reverse more helpful and instead think of how you'll feel and where you'll end up if you don't put in the work.

Separately, you may find issues doing more conventional approaches but should still consider them anyway. Eating better, sleeping better, drinking water, staying away from social media/the internet and other stressors as much as you can just generally help you do more things you want. Good habits lead to good body and mind after all.

If you need to work on directly dealing psychologically with why you're not getting what you want, a simple solution is looking at how you think and feel when you want to do something in those bursts. What makes you decide to get moving, and how can you make those thoughts and feelings occur more often? To go deeper, you can do sentence completions to get past your normal conscious blockages and get to subconscious ones. For example, if you say "if I want to be motivated, I will-" and then write 6-10 endings to this sentence as fast as you can, your conscious mind won't have time to stop you so you'll get out what you need to get out. Even if it sounds weird just writing it anyway can help. I've found this particularly useful and it is researched to help here. There plenty of other sentence stems you can use though like "when I'm not motivated, I-" and "when I'm motivated I feel-" and so on. These can help give you more clarity and help you get specific about what your issues are and what your goals are, since most people keep things vague and hard to pinpoint.

I could write some more but I think something in here is likely to be useful. Let me know what you think.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Hi PP,

On Friday I went to a tourney and I got 2nd after losing round 2 to a Marth that randomly plays super amazing and then running through losers winning 7 sets in a row. Also today I got second at another tourney so I've cemented myself as the number two in my city for the time being which is pretty awesome. This was super rewarding because I had been practicing just getting a better feel for Falcos tools the entire week so I wasn't sure how that practice would apply in tournament. It ended up working super well because I was able to simplify my gameplan with the few tools I was practicing. While watching back some of the vods, I realized that my main tools were laser, dash back laser, half dash back laser, dash back wait, dash back dash in shffl, shhfl in place, or aggressive shffl/laser. Considering that these are the main options I was using in neutral, how can I add more depth to my simple mixups here? Maybe wd down or slight laser forward? You said earlier that Mango gets a lot out of going in, faking once, or faking twice. So I guess I'm looking for how to fake twice. Also I feel like since my only mixups moving forward are SHFFLing/lasering then I can only move forward using one range. What are other tools I can add to my repetoire to move forward?

So on that tourney on Friday I realized that I was getting distracted moreso when I got a hit, because I was expecting to get those hits, so then once I won those interactions and got big punishes my brain would turn off and become complacent. So now I know that losing concentration whether it's from getting a hit and becoming complacent or losing an interaction and getting tiled is the same thing; they both end in you not focusing. That was the main thing I realized.

Today I got 2nd even though I was the first seed. I lost because I was trying to cover everything in neutral instead of playing mixups. So by trying to cover everything I ended up covering nothing. I think this is because I was the first seed, so I couldn't strive to win as much I was trying to avoid losing. In the future I know that I'll just tell myself to use mixups instead of trying to cover everything, but that still doesn't delve into the underlying emotion of why I want to protect my seed/rank. If I want to dive into that emotion/unravel it how do you think I should?

Also I just realized I'm the guy on the come up now. So how do you deal with emotions of complacency and over-arrogance when it comes to improving at a fast rate? I think one of those emotions or a combination of both is why I played the way I did and lost. I think part of the deeper problem is actually the fact that I'm finding it hard to accept my status as one of the better players. It feels weird to me that the work I put in actually pays off and the fact that I might be working harder/better than the people I was looking up to/striving to beat only six months ago. Maybe when I'm scared that once I finally accept that I'm at the skill level I'm at then my losses will feel worse. Have you (or anyone else in this thread) felt anything like this? I'm coming to realize while writing this that this is actually the core problem and it's something super foreign to me so I'm not sure at all how to deal with it.

What's the definition of a mixup?

 

[Frenzy231199]

More peak of the SH, maybe a bit lower. It can depend a bit on their conditioning and what they're looking for.

Dash in WD back laser is good for a lot of observation and threatens approach. Dash in dash back laser in place, or half dash in laser in place is similar and you're using laser lag to observe. A dash into a SH can be okay too as you can laser or waveland or empty land or DJ. I think that's all plenty to play with.

You want to fake with SH sometimes so they can whiff and then you can DJ like you said. You can also wait a bit longer to hit them instead of just hitting them right as they come into your range. It is definitely still very favored for you but you have to make them guess a bit sometimes.


If you're retreating I'm not sure how FH/DJ aerial would get punished by shield drop. If she sharks then you could just threaten shield drop back. Anyway, I'm not sure the position is exactly super good for her, but it does help in this matchup. Still she can't come off the platform for free as you have Bair and Utilt. So establishing those threats such as with DD for Bair can help you use the threat to get near her and harass or hit her.

I only saw the situation actually happen once in the rest of the game at the timestamp and the Bair was spaced too close to Puff which was the main issue. Sometimes you preempted her getting on the platform with a guess that could have instead been a reaction and that got you hit as well. I'd suggest looking around there for a solution.


Movement implies putting lots of tools together or more complexity, while tools would be more basic. Based on how you asked the question anyway.

Yes there were ways I could have simplified it, but I never got recorded what I wanted with Falco really so I hesitate to extrapolate much.

Generally a top player thing, but I'd say Leffen stands out in some ways, as do others like Druggedfox and Cactuar.

No you can stand closer to the edge and hit them between lasers or get on the platform and hit them between lasers. His edgedash doesn't go super far so you can often react and move quickly vs both with practice.

Thanks PP this makes a ton of sense, my problem with the FH / DJ aerial was that I wasn't landing on top platform after, so Puff could Shield Drop under me and Up-Air/ Rest, landing on top platform seems to eliminate this worry like you said. Establishing B-Air / Up-Tilt as threats and then using that to get closer to Puff is also a bit of a brainwave for me that I'm going to try out immediately haha. In terms of reacting to Puff going to the platform this is something I struggle with a lot vs other characters too. Are you making a soft read that they will move to the platform and then moving up to punish them after reacting to the jump? Also, do you have anything written up about reacting to stuff like this?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hi PP,

On Friday I went to a tourney and I got 2nd after losing round 2 to a Marth that randomly plays super amazing and then running through losers winning 7 sets in a row. Also today I got second at another tourney so I've cemented myself as the number two in my city for the time being which is pretty awesome. This was super rewarding because I had been practicing just getting a better feel for Falcos tools the entire week so I wasn't sure how that practice would apply in tournament. It ended up working super well because I was able to simplify my gameplan with the few tools I was practicing. While watching back some of the vods, I realized that my main tools were laser, dash back laser, half dash back laser, dash back wait, dash back dash in shffl, shhfl in place, or aggressive shffl/laser. Considering that these are the main options I was using in neutral, how can I add more depth to my simple mixups here? Maybe wd down or slight laser forward? You said earlier that Mango gets a lot out of going in, faking once, or faking twice. So I guess I'm looking for how to fake twice. Also I feel like since my only mixups moving forward are SHFFLing/lasering then I can only move forward using one range. What are other tools I can add to my repetoire to move forward?

So on that tourney on Friday I realized that I was getting distracted moreso when I got a hit, because I was expecting to get those hits, so then once I won those interactions and got big punishes my brain would turn off and become complacent. So now I know that losing concentration whether it's from getting a hit and becoming complacent or losing an interaction and getting tiled is the same thing; they both end in you not focusing. That was the main thing I realized.

Today I got 2nd even though I was the first seed. I lost because I was trying to cover everything in neutral instead of playing mixups. So by trying to cover everything I ended up covering nothing. I think this is because I was the first seed, so I couldn't strive to win as much I was trying to avoid losing. In the future I know that I'll just tell myself to use mixups instead of trying to cover everything, but that still doesn't delve into the underlying emotion of why I want to protect my seed/rank. If I want to dive into that emotion/unravel it how do you think I should?

Also I just realized I'm the guy on the come up now. So how do you deal with emotions of complacency and over-arrogance when it comes to improving at a fast rate? I think one of those emotions or a combination of both is why I played the way I did and lost. I think part of the deeper problem is actually the fact that I'm finding it hard to accept my status as one of the better players. It feels weird to me that the work I put in actually pays off and the fact that I might be working harder/better than the people I was looking up to/striving to beat only six months ago. Maybe when I'm scared that once I finally accept that I'm at the skill level I'm at then my losses will feel worse. Have you (or anyone else in this thread) felt anything like this? I'm coming to realize while writing this that this is actually the core problem and it's something super foreign to me so I'm not sure at all how to deal with it.

What's the definition of a mixup?

You need to fake out of dash in so they don't always associate dash in with an attack, so dash in laser in place or dash SH in waveland down/back, dash in dash back laser etc. No need to overhurry with this though, you can often find more ways to use what you have.

Follow the feeling. Ask yourself why being first seed made you afraid to lose. Why does being an underdog allow you play better? What does this mean about your motivation in the game? What is your ideal motivation and how is what you currently use both similar and different? Those are good questions to start with.

I did get complacent after winning Pound 5. It was a very bad few years afterward for me as I tried to solve this problem. I ended up reconnecting with my love of Melee and realizing I found joy in growing, not in just having people in front of me to beat. So in this way it doesn't matter what rank I am it only matters if I can find some new way to grow and enjoy the game, which always exists. I also did other things like add in ways I could fuel myself by using wins to help people and other things that matter deeply to me, but those personal decisions can vary from person to person. Finding more reasons to build your new way of thinking is good because it locks it in place and that helps take out the old way of thinking. It's a daily reinforcement process. so it comes back if you stop working on it.

Today I'll define mixup as a way to change what you do after giving a similar cue, but also in a broader sense doing separate cues entirely. So I view changing what you do after dash back as a mixup, but also moving in or changing timing on a new set play while the opponent expects a dash back.

Thanks PP this makes a ton of sense, my problem with the FH / DJ aerial was that I wasn't landing on top platform after, so Puff could Shield Drop under me and Up-Air/ Rest, landing on top platform seems to eliminate this worry like you said. Establishing B-Air / Up-Tilt as threats and then using that to get closer to Puff is also a bit of a brainwave for me that I'm going to try out immediately haha. In terms of reacting to Puff going to the platform this is something I struggle with a lot vs other characters too. Are you making a soft read that they will move to the platform and then moving up to punish them after reacting to the jump? Also, do you have anything written up about reacting to stuff like this?

Haha good deal man.

I don't have anything written up about it, sorry about that. I have a LOT I really do need to write about lol. Something that can kind of help is not only looking at when/where a Puff likes to land on the platform(how many jumps, after what you threaten, how close, etc) but also what you can do to make it more or less likely at a certain time(if you SH then puff may be less likely to land near where you can DJ Bair for example). It helps to do things to set yourself up to cover it like the SH DJ Bair or to confirm her landing on/nearing the platform out of dash in so you can dash back/pivot Bair quickly, or whatever else you want to do. Blindly reacting is hard, but setting up reactions and learning how they think gives you much more control of the situation.

 

[peedy]

Hey pp, I'm not sure if you missed this question or didn't want to answer it. It was the last question of the page so I figured I'd re-post because worse comes to worse you'd just tell me you don't like answering these type of questions. Hope you don't mind but if you do I'd prefer to know so as not to annoy you or get you in trouble with the Reddit community which can certainly be overwhelming.

"Thanks for the reply. What does that mean he's often confirming out of dash-back?
My second question is I've read you say if Mang0 added one more dash to his game it would add so much more versatility. Do you think you could go in-depth on what you mean by that? Do you mean dash back? Do you mean a triple feint?

I'll start working on what you said none the less. appreciate you giving me that framework"

 

[Dr Peepee]

There are just some parts I didn't want to answer.

Confirming out of dash back means you see what they were doing and make a decision about how to proceed out of dash back. Sometimes when you don't get a confirm that works for you or just want to mix it up you can dash a bit longer.

 

[peedy]

Thank you, I treasure your replies and your time and your honesty very much

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

You need to fake out of dash in so they don't always associate dash in with an attack, so dash in laser in place or dash SH in waveland down/back, dash in dash back laser etc. No need to overhurry with this though, you can often find more ways to use what you have.

Follow the feeling. Ask yourself why being first seed made you afraid to lose. Why does being an underdog allow you play better? What does this mean about your motivation in the game? What is your ideal motivation and how is what you currently use both similar and different? Those are good questions to start with.

I did get complacent after winning Pound 5. It was a very bad few years afterward for me as I tried to solve this problem. I ended up reconnecting with my love of Melee and realizing I found joy in growing, not in just having people in front of me to beat. So in this way it doesn't matter what rank I am it only matters if I can find some new way to grow and enjoy the game, which always exists. I also did other things like add in ways I could fuel myself by using wins to help people and other things that matter deeply to me, but those personal decisions can vary from person to person. Finding more reasons to build your new way of thinking is good because it locks it in place and that helps take out the old way of thinking. It's a daily reinforcement process. so it comes back if you stop working on it.

Today I'll define mixup as a way to change what you do after giving a similar cue, but also in a broader sense doing separate cues entirely. So I view changing what you do after dash back as a mixup, but also moving in or changing timing on a new set play while the opponent expects a dash back.


Haha good deal man.

I don't have anything written up about it, sorry about that. I have a LOT I really do need to write about lol. Something that can kind of help is not only looking at when/where a Puff likes to land on the platform(how many jumps, after what you threaten, how close, etc) but also what you can do to make it more or less likely at a certain time(if you SH then puff may be less likely to land near where you can DJ Bair for example). It helps to do things to set yourself up to cover it like the SH DJ Bair or to confirm her landing on/nearing the platform out of dash in so you can dash back/pivot Bair quickly, or whatever else you want to do. Blindly reacting is hard, but setting up reactions and learning how they think gives you much more control of the situation.

I really like Melee when I'm analyzing/practicing/grinding because I'm learning the whole time. But in tourney, when I get hit by something, my brain wants to learn about why I got hit, but now I've grown to put that feeling away because it just distracts me from playing. But now it's replaced by thoughts of winning and losing. So the way to change my underlying thinking is to practice day in and day out?

I guess another way of asking that question is, if you found joy in growing, then how did that translate to in-the-moment tourney matches?

What do you mean by "I could fuel myself by using wins to help people and other things that matter deeply to me"?

When you were finding new ways to grow and enjoy the game, did that contribute to you picking up marth? Just wondering out of curiosity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw3rrra-9nk&

At 0:08, what should I have done after I hit the first full hop bair? It feels like Marth has a lot of options there and if you pick wrong it's pretty favorable for him. That down smash I did really doesn't seem good. I'm thinking either dash back to confirm if they jump/swing and ff pased the ledge, or maybe commit to another full hop bair.

This Marth spams full hop fair oos and ps in neutral. Sometimes it seems like those are his only two mixups besides the occasional dd grab. For example at 0:38, 0:42 (the immediate next interaction), 0:49, 1:00, you get the point. But my strategy was to laser and then use the tempo of the laser to go in on his shield (i guess the visual cue of the shield also makes the full hop fair better in that way). But that worked about 0 times in that entire game. Is the best way to play the position to wait out the full hop fair, and then contest the landing? Or should I try to get under and then shine/uptilt/shield/cc? Or should I contest the full hop in the air with my own full hop? At 2:00 I had a weird way of dealing with it, I just waited for him to drift into me with his fh and then I hit him with reverse nair, lol. As another example I try to contest his landing with nair in at 2:26 but he just outspaces me and fairs it. This example is especially frustrating for me because he just throws out the first fair so preemptively while drifting forward and then still gets to retreat safely. At 3:02 I shine his fh but I was already under him with tempo so that interaction makes sense to me.

After I hit that nair at 2:00 how should I have taken advantage of the situation? I tried to f tilt his landing but he just oustpaced/speed me with falling fair. Should I only try to contest his fall if I'm already under him and then otherwise just shoot a laser?

At 2:12 how should I have pressured him on the platform? Just up air? If I commit to a full hop bair that retreats to the top platform do i just give up stage if the bair simply hits his shield?

Also at 3:07 is another platform position. Should I have gone for sh upair to potentially poke/push him off and hit him with the second hit? If I commit to a full hop bair on his shield there can I land safely? What are the main mixups in that situation for Marth?

At 0:55 he hits a ps, is it good to retreat to the side platform after that? I'm starting to think it's bad every single time to put yourself voluntarily above Marth since I've played against better and better Marths. But it seems like it's just a favorable mixup for marth when he hits a ps at that range. So maybe i just should shoot low lasers to make it harder for them to ps in the first place?

I want to let you know that I'm still working on learning my tools despite this analysis. But for analysis I'm trying to cover more common situations or situations that I noticed I'm bad in across most matchups.

Here's a sick combo I did last Friday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13jsje6mpiE&t=194 have a good day PP and thank you very much!

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think it's fine to think about why you get hit in tourney, but you need to save it for between stocks. Otherwise you need to be all-in on trying to win. However, maybe if you slow down the game a lot with lots of defense/edge stalling you can think about what happened every time you get hit. I like thinking about trying to overcome my opponents' challenges they put before me, as well as creating the best challenges I can for my opponent so we both push ourselves to do our best. Of course I want to win too, but I care a lot about us playing our best to win, or basically how I win being just as important as winning itself. It sounds like you need a new tournament mentality that makes you feel comfortable, and then practicing that daily would help a lot.

I don't think about joy in growing when I play in tourney, I think about the joy of interacting with my opponent and collaborating with them.

That next line isn't so applicable to everyone, but it's basically about tying in stuff that's important to you into Melee. If you win, then more people might listen to you, so you can use the respect to help others. That's something that works for me but won't for everyone.

Marth I picked up as I was lost and trying to search for myself and new motivation, so he was a big part of my search even if he didn't directly give me any answers.


Looks like you could have turned around for Ftilt/maybe Fsmash or stayed there and FH Bair'd the DJ.

You get hit by the FH Fair for attacking from too far away and without faking much. You can see it every time it happens you just laser and SH straight in from far enough away for him to punish. If you just airdodged down sometimes you'd bait it out as well as dashing in after lasering shield and lasering in place and doing that new closer mixup. You can mix up Marth much better from a closer range where he can't exactly hit you but you can hit him moving back OOS and also pressure him well if you move in, in addition to grab. So getting into that closer position, and generally faking a bit more would help.

I'd have turned around in my walk and SH or FH Bair'd him. But you could also have backed up a bit and lasered if you wanted.

You could have actually dash/run SH'd in and DJ aerial'd him rolling in if you didn't laser. You might still have been able to Uair as you said out of the laser but it's hard to say how that would've went.

You could have just SH backward then DJ Bair'd him for airdodging firstly, and that SH Bair doesn't help unless he shield drops or goes through the platform. Pushing him off the platform with Uair and then shining would be fine I believe. You can also do mixups using dash and SH into DJ Bair to wear down his shield and threaten him. Marth can't do a lot here besides like FH away or WD/shield drop at an odd timing to try and change the position or Fair you out of something, but it's not great for him when he's on the edge of the platform by the edge I would say.

It's okay to retreat to side platform to avoid PS, but once you get hit by it I wouldn't think it's that good for reasons you see here. And yes shooting low lasers vs Marth is just generally a really good strategy.

Lol nice man have a good one!

 

[PAWN1]

Hey PP, after a little solo practice I've been implementing the whole laser -> WD down/away, confirm they did an option during the lag, and then do a punish and that's been working well! But when I try to do the same with laser ->dash back it feels like I never am able to do the same confirm, maybe because there's less time during the dash to observe. I know it might just be lack of enough practice but do you have any ideas on what may be my problem here?

 

[Dr Peepee]

It could be that you're doing it too far away, or it's not forcing them to act and you may need a dash in before dash back. Sometimes people just don't swing or do something after laser and you have to find different tells or assume different things. But yes, having less time during dash to observe is also an issue here too. I would experiment with doing the mixup closer to the opponent as a starting point and then moving on to some of the other things I mentioned.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

I think it's fine to think about why you get hit in tourney, but you need to save it for between stocks. Otherwise you need to be all-in on trying to win. However, maybe if you slow down the game a lot with lots of defense/edge stalling you can think about what happened every time you get hit. I like thinking about trying to overcome my opponents' challenges they put before me, as well as creating the best challenges I can for my opponent so we both push ourselves to do our best. Of course I want to win too, but I care a lot about us playing our best to win, or basically how I win being just as important as winning itself. It sounds like you need a new tournament mentality that makes you feel comfortable, and then practicing that daily would help a lot.

I don't think about joy in growing when I play in tourney, I think about the joy of interacting with my opponent and collaborating with them.

That next line isn't so applicable to everyone, but it's basically about tying in stuff that's important to you into Melee. If you win, then more people might listen to you, so you can use the respect to help others. That's something that works for me but won't for everyone.

Marth I picked up as I was lost and trying to search for myself and new motivation, so he was a big part of my search even if he didn't directly give me any answers.


Looks like you could have turned around for Ftilt/maybe Fsmash or stayed there and FH Bair'd the DJ.

You get hit by the FH Fair for attacking from too far away and without faking much. You can see it every time it happens you just laser and SH straight in from far enough away for him to punish. If you just airdodged down sometimes you'd bait it out as well as dashing in after lasering shield and lasering in place and doing that new closer mixup. You can mix up Marth much better from a closer range where he can't exactly hit you but you can hit him moving back OOS and also pressure him well if you move in, in addition to grab. So getting into that closer position, and generally faking a bit more would help.

I'd have turned around in my walk and SH or FH Bair'd him. But you could also have backed up a bit and lasered if you wanted.

You could have actually dash/run SH'd in and DJ aerial'd him rolling in if you didn't laser. You might still have been able to Uair as you said out of the laser but it's hard to say how that would've went.

You could have just SH backward then DJ Bair'd him for airdodging firstly, and that SH Bair doesn't help unless he shield drops or goes through the platform. Pushing him off the platform with Uair and then shining would be fine I believe. You can also do mixups using dash and SH into DJ Bair to wear down his shield and threaten him. Marth can't do a lot here besides like FH away or WD/shield drop at an odd timing to try and change the position or Fair you out of something, but it's not great for him when he's on the edge of the platform by the edge I would say.

It's okay to retreat to side platform to avoid PS, but once you get hit by it I wouldn't think it's that good for reasons you see here. And yes shooting low lasers vs Marth is just generally a really good strategy.

Lol nice man have a good one!

Using the respect from winning to help others is actually my main goal in melee. I forgot about it though since I've been competing in a new region with lot's of players I'm looking forward to playing. I'm actually a French/Education major so the tie in is pretty obvious. My ultimate goal in melee isn't to be the best or whatever, it's to be at a level that I'm comfortable with where I feel like I have something valuable to offer most players. And that level is really hard for me to define so I guess that's why I have a hard time figuring out my long term goals.

So the goal against a full hop fairing marth is to get closer to play a mixup where they can't react? Why is shielding a part of the mixup in that range? I've found that I've had success by not shielding voluntarily in neutral. Once I'm in that closer position what is the marth mainly threatening? SH aerial? Is that why shielding is part of the mixup there for falco?

In the position where I'm coming towards marth with a sh under the platform, while marth is on the side platform shielding, is the sh good because you're threatening a dj aerial that they get a better risk reward on if you decide to do it (unless you can like shine turn around bair retreat to top plat). So by them knowing that they can just play it safe and shield anyway without falco directly threatening besides like waveland on plat grab. So they just play it safe and shield anyway knowing that falco's only direct counter to it is waveland on platform grab? I guess that's only one kind of specific decision process that could happen, but I'm really just wondering what sh under the side plat/towards them from closer to center stage accomplishes. Does this position drastically change on any stage? Besides fod of course. It's probably better for falco on ps because his sh bair and fair hit the side plat, but besides that yoshis, bf, and dl all seem pretty similar to me in terms of major differences.

When you airdodge down out of a short hop, it seems to me that you can punish stuff even if you do it at the peak of the sh. Is that true? If it is that seems super good to me because you can kinda react and play with the spacings better.

What's the purpose/main use of a slight laser forward?

 

[Dr Peepee]

You do need to define it in some terms at least. When do you think the respect is there? Is it 5K twitter followers? Top 100? Top 50? A big stream? 20K views per Youtube video? Or what about more subjective things, like seeing your name discussed by others regularly or having a decent amount of fans in twitch chat and twitter? You'll need to answer these sorts of questions and set those types of goals to know where you're going.

Shielding is just what people do when they get caught off guard or want to act faster out of laser(shield stun is less than getting hit). Some people prefer shielding since Falcos are pretty trained to run in when they see it and it can be abused. But yes, fight closer to Marth. Also wait, Falco shouldn't be shielding in neutral usually not sure where you got that.

If they just shield, then you can just not attack. Then their shield is shrinking and you can set up another mixup below them. You can also SH Bair their shield on YS easily, and even on BF you can SH Bair but it's a particular timing.

It can be true but not always true. Depends on what the opponent does. A whiffed grab might be pressure instead of a direct punish, but a Fox Usmash would be a direct punish for you. Sometimes if they just move back you don't get any punish....etc.

Taking stage while seeing how the opponent reacts to movement in.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

You do need to define it in some terms at least. When do you think the respect is there? Is it 5K twitter followers? Top 100? Top 50? A big stream? 20K views per Youtube video? Or what about more subjective things, like seeing your name discussed by others regularly or having a decent amount of fans in twitch chat and twitter? You'll need to answer these sorts of questions and set those types of goals to know where you're going.

Shielding is just what people do when they get caught off guard or want to act faster out of laser(shield stun is less than getting hit). Some people prefer shielding since Falcos are pretty trained to run in when they see it and it can be abused. But yes, fight closer to Marth. Also wait, Falco shouldn't be shielding in neutral usually not sure where you got that.

If they just shield, then you can just not attack. Then their shield is shrinking and you can set up another mixup below them. You can also SH Bair their shield on YS easily, and even on BF you can SH Bair but it's a particular timing.

It can be true but not always true. Depends on what the opponent does. A whiffed grab might be pressure instead of a direct punish, but a Fox Usmash would be a direct punish for you. Sometimes if they just move back you don't get any punish....etc.

Taking stage while seeing how the opponent reacts to movement in.

Oh I was trying to stay away from that kind of extrinsic validation but I guess that makes sense that that's one of the ways to quantitatively evaluate yourself.

Can you define the ideal close range from marth? Is it like around his sh fade forward instant tipper fair range?

Can you elaborate on that sh bair on bf?

Why do people abandon their gameplans? Is there ever a good reason to completely throw out your gameplan mid game? Is guess it's not a good gameplan if there's huge holes in it against players of the same caliber.

When should I start moving onto combining the tools I've been working on? I remember a long time ago you said "there's always more deepening to be done" How does analysis relate to my training regimen that now revolves around practicing combo game, ledge dashes, and deepening my understanding of my tools?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well you're using the motivation to help others, but you need the respect to do it. This would be in large part how you measure the respect, so it isn't your motivation that changes just how you're measuring your progress.

You mean for Marth or against him? Well I guess it's about the same either way. You want to be just outside of his jab range and have a laser out, or be slightly inside of his jab range for Falco, and you want to be just inside Marth's jab range with no laser out against Falco if you're Marth.

You can't exactly AC, but you just Bair shortly after you SH in order to hit the platform.

Sometimes people abandon them due to nerves, or lack of preparation/training, lack of refinement, emotional or physical distress, or sometimes in a positive sense it can be about playing with emotion and just letting things happen. The foundation is a solid structured gameplan and knowledge of the game with good training, which guards against the bad stuff and makes the good stuff work better.

One answer is to follow the feeling. If you can't find a new way to deepen, then combine. Just don't overdo it or you'll have the opposite problem. Another answer is to build up what you need for those problems in front of you such as certain opponents or strategies. Just stay flexible and trust the training.

Analysis lets you know if you're accurately preparing for the meta(options used are what you're practicing against etc). Analysis gives you new ways to practice if you see a movement or series of movements you like as well. Analyzing yourself also helps you see if you're executing in matches the way you train and it gives useful feedback on what is working and what isn't.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Well you're using the motivation to help others, but you need the respect to do it. This would be in large part how you measure the respect, so it isn't your motivation that changes just how you're measuring your progress.

You mean for Marth or against him? Well I guess it's about the same either way. You want to be just outside of his jab range and have a laser out, or be slightly inside of his jab range for Falco, and you want to be just inside Marth's jab range with no laser out against Falco if you're Marth.

You can't exactly AC, but you just Bair shortly after you SH in order to hit the platform.

Sometimes people abandon them due to nerves, or lack of preparation/training, lack of refinement, emotional or physical distress, or sometimes in a positive sense it can be about playing with emotion and just letting things happen. The foundation is a solid structured gameplan and knowledge of the game with good training, which guards against the bad stuff and makes the good stuff work better.

One answer is to follow the feeling. If you can't find a new way to deepen, then combine. Just don't overdo it or you'll have the opposite problem. Another answer is to build up what you need for those problems in front of you such as certain opponents or strategies. Just stay flexible and trust the training.

Analysis lets you know if you're accurately preparing for the meta(options used are what you're practicing against etc). Analysis gives you new ways to practice if you see a movement or series of movements you like as well. Analyzing yourself also helps you see if you're executing in matches the way you train and it gives useful feedback on what is working and what isn't.

Oh btw for the falco shielding in neutral thing, I actually knew that falco shouldn't be shielding voluntarily in neutral. I think that's why I didn't like that close position vs marth so I never really explored it's possibilities. So if shielding is one of the main mixups in that situation, is it a slight dash forward shield to get in the marth's range when they try to swing at you moving back?

I'm having trouble still with marth transitioning from being cornered to the side platform. I found a good example of it here at 1:48
https://vods.co/v/xjfrcp

I think what happened is squid didn't have a laser out, so he was trying to catch the marth coming in with an aerial whiff punish instead. But then the marth just takes the side plat and squid isn't positioned in a way to contest him, so then the marth gets the stage. I'm not sure how to get into the position even from neutral where falco is under the plat and marth is on it without the risk of giving up stage. Btw I'm asking two questions here, one about how to get into that position from when you're on the other side of the stage, and another about how best to set yourself up when guarding the stage to cover the marth coming in and going to the plat.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Shielding is not one of the main mixups in that situation for Falco.

Squid just backed up on his own. He hit a laser and the Marth shielded, and Squid I imagine predicted Marth would WD in and attack OOS so he waited and dashed a few times and then backed up with a laser. Squid stayed backed up and let the Marth come off of the platform and then grabbed. So instead if you wanted to go forward like you said instead of waiting, you can probably move in to at least where center stage is and hover around there. Marth running off with Fair is likely to get punished here if you sit just out of the range, and flirting around that range helps encourage Marth to not stay on the platform and either attack or let you push farther inward.

 

[AnonymousID]

I've noticed that after every game I play, I forget basically everything that happened. Sometimes I do remember certain scenarios that I solo practiced but most of the time I forget. However I do notice that I've been improving. I'm wondering if forgetting is something normal or if its an actual problem and what the causes are. (I assume it has something to do with how much you can store in your short term memory)

 

[Frenzy231199]

Hi PP, I'm going over my set with M2K at Smash Con at the moment and I've found a situation that I don't really have a concrete answer to and feels like a big red flag situation for me vs Marth and other characters to be honest. https://youtu.be/s8ym9NQs7Ac?t=46s Around this time stamp I end up in a situation where I am too far away to aerial i without losing to options like dash back grab, up tilt, aerial in place etc. but am also too close to be able to laser safely as the threat of WD Forward F-Smash, Dash Attack, N-Air is there (These catch me a lot). I guess if I was closer to centre I could dash back full or half laser which would solve this problem maybe? But in the corner I don't have that privilege (I guess this is one of the many reasons why being cornered is so bad).

Some options I'm considering at the moment are Full Hopping but this seems to get caught by marth moving forward with an attack more often than I'd like, Dash Dancing and waiting for a queue to make a decision off of (WD Forward maybe and predict an attack with Shield?), or Dash Neutral Jump D-Air which you can control the drift on to make it harder to whiff punish with grabs, while catching movement forward (although I play PAL 90% of the time so that seems less effective for me.)

Hearing your thoughts on this would be great, also you've obviously played M2K in a lot of sets so it would be interesting to hear how you perceive him to play the MU. A lot of the time it felt to me like he was relying on reading when I would come in with walling tools like F-Air, Up-Tilt, or just moving out of the way and resetting by moving to the platform rolling etc. and trying to get big punishes off of these situations instead of trying to push forward and threaten Falco with his own aggressive tools as much? Maybe he just did this vs me specifically because it was working? Lots of questions haha

 

[Dr Peepee]

I've noticed that after every game I play, I forget basically everything that happened. Sometimes I do remember certain scenarios that I solo practiced but most of the time I forget. However I do notice that I've been improving. I'm wondering if forgetting is something normal or if its an actual problem and what the causes are. (I assume it has something to do with how much you can store in your short term memory)

Yeah I had this problem too for a long long time, and most people that play have it. It's a skill you have to train. I think working on the physical end with good sleep exercise etc helps, and the mental end with meditation relaxation etc also help. But to specifically train this, you wait on the respawn platform and try to remember what DI you did well or poorly and then maybe the last hit in neutral before you died. You can eventually go farther back until you can remember the whole stock or at least the major points of it.

Hi PP, I'm going over my set with M2K at Smash Con at the moment and I've found a situation that I don't really have a concrete answer to and feels like a big red flag situation for me vs Marth and other characters to be honest. https://youtu.be/s8ym9NQs7Ac?t=46s Around this time stamp I end up in a situation where I am too far away to aerial i without losing to options like dash back grab, up tilt, aerial in place etc. but am also too close to be able to laser safely as the threat of WD Forward F-Smash, Dash Attack, N-Air is there (These catch me a lot). I guess if I was closer to centre I could dash back full or half laser which would solve this problem maybe? But in the corner I don't have that privilege (I guess this is one of the many reasons why being cornered is so bad).

Some options I'm considering at the moment are Full Hopping but this seems to get caught by marth moving forward with an attack more often than I'd like, Dash Dancing and waiting for a queue to make a decision off of (WD Forward maybe and predict an attack with Shield?), or Dash Neutral Jump D-Air which you can control the drift on to make it harder to whiff punish with grabs, while catching movement forward (although I play PAL 90% of the time so that seems less effective for me.)

Hearing your thoughts on this would be great, also you've obviously played M2K in a lot of sets so it would be interesting to hear how you perceive him to play the MU. A lot of the time it felt to me like he was relying on reading when I would come in with walling tools like F-Air, Up-Tilt, or just moving out of the way and resetting by moving to the platform rolling etc. and trying to get big punishes off of these situations instead of trying to push forward and threaten Falco with his own aggressive tools as much? Maybe he just did this vs me specifically because it was working? Lots of questions haha

If you mean when you landed at 0:47, then you actually sorta did a solution here. You ran in and M2K DJ'd, but he may have just moved back. If you just dashed/WD'd back you would've been able to get a laser out. So basically threatening with yolo aerial out of the corner helps keep them off of you so you can set up a laser or FH over them etc. Also keep in mind that Marth won't always just rush in and has to be watching for yolo aerial or dash FH to top platform, so even if you can't technically get away with laser in place, it can still be worth going for given he may be slow to react. Sometimes I FH waveland on the side platform and then drop through with laser or try to go over them if they come in as they see me waveland down.

Yeah M2K largely looks for reads and plays defense and then will go in sometimes. Also just generally Marth or any character can't go in that easily vs Falco due to laser and yolo aerial.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Shielding is not one of the main mixups in that situation for Falco.

Squid just backed up on his own. He hit a laser and the Marth shielded, and Squid I imagine predicted Marth would WD in and attack OOS so he waited and dashed a few times and then backed up with a laser. Squid stayed backed up and let the Marth come off of the platform and then grabbed. So instead if you wanted to go forward like you said instead of waiting, you can probably move in to at least where center stage is and hover around there. Marth running off with Fair is likely to get punished here if you sit just out of the range, and flirting around that range helps encourage Marth to not stay on the platform and either attack or let you push farther inward.

Oh good thing I asked then, I shadowboxed the position today and dash back laser, bair, or dash back confirm nair in or whatever seemed good. Also slight laser forward seemed good in that position as well to set up for pivot bair or sh drift forward late aerial or f tilt I guess. Are those the options that you look to do? Am I missing anything major? I'm not sure how I feel about full committing on moving in when I'm at a range where I'm just outside Marth's jab range because it feels like you get a little off balance based on the fact that you have to think about them moving back and then if they don't you have to react to which side of their shield you land on and when to time your aerial etc.

So after Squid did those dashes in center stage, could he have just kept waiting without doing a full dash back laser? I'm looking for how Squid could have played the position without giving up center stage.

I've recently started to take shadowboxing seriously for practicing and it's become really daunting the more I get into it. When I imagine a range between falco and marth there's so many options to consider. The starting point is pretty easy because it's whatever you're the most afraid of (normally I'm most scared of the marth nairing in or dashing back) but then it's really hard to know where to go from there. There's so many timing and spacing nuances in even one interaction between two options, but then sometimes I feel myself diving super deep into those and then I forget the basics of the original situation and then I start to get into super situational answers that don't really seem practical in tournament (or friendlies, for that matter). I now see why you recommend always pushing stuff towards simplicity lol. Also it's scary to think that I could be forgetting about a certain obvious option. This is more of a rant so I'm just curious if I'm on the right track with shadowboxing. Although I do want to mention that I have made progress with it already, tools are starting to come together instead of being separate entities from each other. I've started to find the power of slight movement forward, the fact that I wasn't lasering from dash back enough, and as simple as it seems I'm recognizing more often when people move back vs when they move in.

Do you think it's better or worse to put a cpu in the starting position and then imagining what they do after? Or no cpu at all?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c5QdN64i84

At 3:38, what should I have done after I shot that laser? When you fall from top plat do you try to mixup what height you shoot your laser? Should I be shooting a higher laser to beat their short hop when I'm lower than 55% (the percent that Falco can't cc DA anymore) I think after I shot the laser my idea was good of moving away from the run up shield and then coming back in with an attack, but I don't think instant dj is the best way to play that position/execute that idea.

When should you be dairing against marth? Nair is better against dash back, shield, and comes out 1 frame faster. I guess the best use is defensively against wd forward and dash forward/dash attack?

At 3:47, what should I have done here after I get hit by his uair off the ledge? What's the difference in the position when I'm facing Marth's shield vs when I'm turned away? This position is so scary when I have my back turned because it just seems like a timing mixup based on when they're going to grab. Maybe I should have just rolled away or dash bair/laser away. Maybe it's better to just minimize risk in that position since I have a decent percent lead. Later in the game at 6:41 I do a cc d smash and end up losing the game for it so that's obv not the right thing lol.

At 4:06 did my empty sh accomplish anything?

At 8:50 how do you edgeguard against that side b dj? Do you just shine the side b? Is shining it a risk?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Squid should have moved in with SH and either DJ aerial'd on reaction to Marth getting on side platform. He could also have slight lasered forward and then set up Bairs as he reacted to the platform movement. I don't think doing those extra lasers that far away was necessary when Marth is cornered in shield, but it could have helped Marth WD into him OOS and he could have maintained Bair control of the platform anyway so I guess you can do those too if you want.
Yeah your approach isn't so bad, but I'd do lots of what beats what outright first. So a half dash back laser might be amazing vs dash in Nair at one range but lose at a slightly closer one, and you'd need to know that difference. That kind of stuff can inform your positional understanding a lot so just look at what's common and work to get into the winning positions.

CPU is fine. I prefer none, but initially when I was practicing ranges I used them.

I would go for Ftilt, yolo Dair, dash/WD back laser, or Fh back to the top platform. And vs Marth you should opt to shoot low normally. You could do what you said and did as well.

I like Dair defensively such as when I'm in shield or want to cross Marth up/stab his shield or when I think he will dash back so I can convert off of it. But yeah otherwise you just want to use it when you know it'll hit.

Dsmash would've worked fine. You didn't CC at 6:41.

Yes it made him jump OOS to either get over laser or to get around your possible aerial and hit you/your landing lag.

You could have just let go and DJ Bair'd it. I like doing shine Dair but some say it doesn't work now and the let go Bair would work in many situations so that's fine. Just be sure to drift out a bit before DJ'ing.

 

[LowQualityJpeg]

Dr Peepee

What do you think about sh single/double hit fair for combo extensions? Does it actually have practical uses or should it just be reserved for swag?

Should Falco's fh be used for evading approaches (like Fox's) or is it too slow for it to be a viable option?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think single hit is okay sometimes, such as when it can knock down and leave the opponent close to you, or they hold in at lower percent so you can get a shine or Utilt extension vs a FFer usually. Sometimes to push them off the stage to setup an edgeguard it's great as well.

Falco's FH is great for avoiding approaches, but you can't usually counterattack out of it. You can sometimes with immediate DJ though.

 

[PAWN1]

Hey PP,

Playing friendlies for the first time in a week (took a break because of some school stuff) made me realize that the way I play the game vs how I see it is pretty fraudulent. I've taken notes on Ginger and Armada's analysis' of sets, read through your more important posts and tried to really understand what you meant when it came to how you see the game regarding mentality and mixups and stuff. It's really fun to me to try and piece together how to see the game well. But when I play the game itself, I autopilot, I don't even watch my opponent for most of the time, I'm just so braindead. When it comes to trying to observe my opponent while I'm in lag such as when I'm in a wavedash, I'll do it a few times and go back to my old habits.
And though I solo practiced and read the Art of Learning and some other books about improvement, my tech isn't where it should be in terms of consistency for what I've practiced. I still get stuck in shine after trying to waveshine despite practicing it almost daily this summer trying to get it frame tight. My bread and butter punishes aren't as consistent as they should be either as a result of this.
Maybe I've gone too far with the idea that what separates people who are good at something from the rest is that they're willing to do the boring stuff. And I did do that with my solo practice. But I need to be able to play the game too, and what's more, I'm not even good with what I've practiced. Just want some advice here.

 

[Dr Peepee]

You may be needing to practice in ways that replicate matches more. So you may get stuck in shine because you haven't practiced waveshining in a punish situation which changes the timing some, or you may not be used to doing it in a particular combo setting you did, etc. For help watching the opponent, you may want to practice doing actions that give you time to watch the opponent and have specific things you look for. Having a cpu/second controller plugged in so you can physically look at them and assume what they do and then adjust could be one way of encouraging your eyes to look elsewhere.

It could be that there are other contributing factors such as poor attention for various reasons like poor sleep and such as well, so physical and mental health aspects may be worth considering as an alternate or different route too.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Squid should have moved in with SH and either DJ aerial'd on reaction to Marth getting on side platform. He could also have slight lasered forward and then set up Bairs as he reacted to the platform movement. I don't think doing those extra lasers that far away was necessary when Marth is cornered in shield, but it could have helped Marth WD into him OOS and he could have maintained Bair control of the platform anyway so I guess you can do those too if you want.
Yeah your approach isn't so bad, but I'd do lots of what beats what outright first. So a half dash back laser might be amazing vs dash in Nair at one range but lose at a slightly closer one, and you'd need to know that difference. That kind of stuff can inform your positional understanding a lot so just look at what's common and work to get into the winning positions.

CPU is fine. I prefer none, but initially when I was practicing ranges I used them.

I would go for Ftilt, yolo Dair, dash/WD back laser, or Fh back to the top platform. And vs Marth you should opt to shoot low normally. You could do what you said and did as well.

I like Dair defensively such as when I'm in shield or want to cross Marth up/stab his shield or when I think he will dash back so I can convert off of it. But yeah otherwise you just want to use it when you know it'll hit.

Dsmash would've worked fine. You didn't CC at 6:41.

Yes it made him jump OOS to either get over laser or to get around your possible aerial and hit you/your landing lag.

You could have just let go and DJ Bair'd it. I like doing shine Dair but some say it doesn't work now and the let go Bair would work in many situations so that's fine. Just be sure to drift out a bit before DJ'ing.

So is Falco's best position against most of the cast besides maybe icies is with a laser out against their shield while you're about jab/f tilt range away? What other positions/ranges should I be looking to get into?

What's the purpose of a full dash back laser? What's the worst case scenario that happens when you do a full dash back laser? By full dash back laser I mean an immediate dash jump backwards turn around laser so that there's no dash animation but full momentum. How does that laser differ from a dash back and then a laser?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA-HT0mhWTs

At 0:03 do you think lasering to get under that platform was good? I'm leaning towards no because he had a pretty wide timing to either preemptively or hit me after the fact.

Immediately after that laser I do that shine and then double jump falling bair. And then after that another immediate double jump falling bair. Would you say that immediate double jump is one of the better preemptive/defensive things in Falco dittos that isn't fighting the laser war?

I've been using laser f tilt a lot vs every matchup, i've found it to be a super versatile tool. What is the main mixup in that range? I'm certain it changes vs different characters but I guess I find myself using it most against Marth, sheik, and also I'm curious about Falco as well. I've noticed that I can get laser grab from farther away and I think it's because of my laser f tilting.

At 0:43 what are the mixups for me in that situation when my opponent hit the bair on my shield? I got uptilted cause I tried to probably bair him back oos.

At 1:17 he up tilts under my bair. I thought that that position would be more favorable for me considering how dair isn't that great on shield and bair oos is super fast.

At 1:19 and 1:23 I try to full hop out of the corner. Do you think full hopping out of the corner is good in general in falco dittos? I probably should have faded back more to get a laser out or something instead of trying to fade in with an aggressive dair like at 1:23 after my dj.

At 1:32 if you're in a position where they can get their sh out slightly faster than you at that range, should you be doing some sort of retreating laser in order to reset and start the laser war? I tried to maintain stage control by doing that sh fade in high dair since I had a feeling his sh would be slightly faster and I thought he would attack me from that roll, but I just get lasered anyway.

At 1:38 he up tilts twice while I'm in shield. I'm realizing now that I really have no idea how to deal with up tilt besides lasering them to make them not do it anymore. Seems like you need a pretty good timing read on the up tilt in order to get a solid whiff punish on it and at the same time not commit to a laser so that they can't just take the laser and shield.

At 1:40 after he air dodges onto the platform, what should I have done if I wanted to play it safer and maintain stage? I've grown less fond of full hop bair to top plat since you kinda give up stage or at least they get a more favorable mixup to earn stage back after you bair their shield.

At 1:43 after he commits to that full hop bair would it have been better to just wait under the plat so that I could laser his landing instead?

At 1:54 I missplace my laser and I get lasered, at that range do you try to jab/upward angle f tilt or something? Or should I just shield.

 

[Dr Peepee]

His best neutral position, yes. Even if they don't shield it's still a winning position.

Ah yeah that laser doesn't get used much anymore but it's good for what it does. Worst case is someone reads it and jumps over you I suppose, or someone moves forward when you're close and trying to move back and hits you. Both of these aren't terribly likely given how much space you give up and how quickly you give it up. It mainly ensures you re establish laser control or helps you hit an incoming approach more certainly. Dash back and then laser in place backs you up to dodge some attacks but allows you to sometimes more directly counterhit or pressure, and also deepens your dash back.

Agree, you could have slight lasered forward at most but even then you could be pushing it.

Yeah immediate DJ is fairly good in the ditto. I wouldn't have drifted in with it while he was under the platform though.

Well besides immediate Ftilt you can wait and Ftilt or walk and Ftilt. But yeah aside from Ftilt you can grab, walk jab, laser forward a bit, dash back dash in laser or aerial or slight laser in into mixup, aerial in for crossup/catch people OOS, etc. Plenty to do in that range.

I want to test this weak AC Bair stuff so I don't have perfect answers here, but he is spaced so I doubt you could shine unless you maybe shield SDI'd but even then I don't know if it would work frame wise. I just play it like I'm at frame disadvantage right now and let them hit my shield and then shine or Utilt or whatever and then I go from there. Buffering roll might be pretty good here.

Hmm maybe you were slow? I don't know how the frames on this work either, but I went frame by frame and he appears to barely dodge your foot as he turns around and even more when he starts to Utilt. Super weird. I'd test this if I were you. Bair isn't that fast due to Falco's jumpsquat though I'll say that much.

Yeah FH is great in Falco dittos, but you have to watch for them pursuing you. If they are facing you then try to Dair, otherwise DJ'ing over them is often better so you can Dair on top of them.

Retreating Dair would have served your purpose better there. You could have taken laser and DJ'd away or something too.

You could SH in place and mid/late Bair them, or you could turnaround laser, or just WD OOS and then do a mixup. Something else to practice and test it seems.

Mixing lasers with some dashes and some SHs to either threaten a DJ Bair or to hit them coming down/moving forward OOS. You could also DJ and late Bair/laser and play a mixup game there too.

Laser might have missed unless you did a high one. You can FH aerial or shine him, or SH aerial him if he got lower.

I don't think you can turnaround Utilt there, maybe with SDI, but I think shield is fine here.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

His best neutral position, yes. Even if they don't shield it's still a winning position.

Ah yeah that laser doesn't get used much anymore but it's good for what it does. Worst case is someone reads it and jumps over you I suppose, or someone moves forward when you're close and trying to move back and hits you. Both of these aren't terribly likely given how much space you give up and how quickly you give it up. It mainly ensures you re establish laser control or helps you hit an incoming approach more certainly. Dash back and then laser in place backs you up to dodge some attacks but allows you to sometimes more directly counterhit or pressure, and also deepens your dash back.

Agree, you could have slight lasered forward at most but even then you could be pushing it.

Yeah immediate DJ is fairly good in the ditto. I wouldn't have drifted in with it while he was under the platform though.

Well besides immediate Ftilt you can wait and Ftilt or walk and Ftilt. But yeah aside from Ftilt you can grab, walk jab, laser forward a bit, dash back dash in laser or aerial or slight laser in into mixup, aerial in for crossup/catch people OOS, etc. Plenty to do in that range.

I want to test this weak AC Bair stuff so I don't have perfect answers here, but he is spaced so I doubt you could shine unless you maybe shield SDI'd but even then I don't know if it would work frame wise. I just play it like I'm at frame disadvantage right now and let them hit my shield and then shine or Utilt or whatever and then I go from there. Buffering roll might be pretty good here.

Hmm maybe you were slow? I don't know how the frames on this work either, but I went frame by frame and he appears to barely dodge your foot as he turns around and even more when he starts to Utilt. Super weird. I'd test this if I were you. Bair isn't that fast due to Falco's jumpsquat though I'll say that much.

Yeah FH is great in Falco dittos, but you have to watch for them pursuing you. If they are facing you then try to Dair, otherwise DJ'ing over them is often better so you can Dair on top of them.

Retreating Dair would have served your purpose better there. You could have taken laser and DJ'd away or something too.

You could SH in place and mid/late Bair them, or you could turnaround laser, or just WD OOS and then do a mixup. Something else to practice and test it seems.

Mixing lasers with some dashes and some SHs to either threaten a DJ Bair or to hit them coming down/moving forward OOS. You could also DJ and late Bair/laser and play a mixup game there too.

Laser might have missed unless you did a high one. You can FH aerial or shine him, or SH aerial him if he got lower.

I don't think you can turnaround Utilt there, maybe with SDI, but I think shield is fine here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA-HT0mhWTs (same match)

I tested the position at 1:17 (what to do against low dair on shield turn around up tilt while the falco in shield has his back turned). The Falco in shield can't get an aerial out fast enough to beat the up tilt, although if you're at a significant percent advantage I advise this option because the option you pick (doesn't matter if it's nair dair or bair) will pretty much trade 100% of the time. However if they're at a low percent, since they're on the ground and you're in the air when you trade, the up tilting falco can definitely get their shine out first. If the Falco in shield wants to be aggressive, then it seems like a judgement call between either shine oos (you have to be super fast to beat their up tilt) or sh fade away turn around laser. The cool thing about this position for the Falco in shield is that if you're out of range for the shine oos to hit then that means that they're most likely out of range for their up tilt to hit if you do a sh fade away turn around laser. Other options for the Falco in shield include full hop which easily outspeeds the up tilt (but you probably already knew that) and wd towards them and then cc the up tilt into shine (but that's super niche and requires you to read them doing the up tilt or another ccable move and it doesn't always work unless you do a close to frame perfect wd or they're close to you, but I thought I would mention it anyway in case you were wondering about that.) Pretty much what I learned is that you were right and buffer roll away is super good in that position, as well as full hop.

Also I looked a bit into the position where the falco does sh ac bair instead of low dair, and the position is either really easy or hard depending on when they hit your shield with the bair (on the last few frames while they're falling or closer to the top of their sh). If they hit high, then you can punish the up tilt directly by outspeeding it with pretty much anything (shine oos, sh dair into pillar combo). If they hit low then you can buffer jump oos with c stick to get out of range of the up tilt in time (this pretty much has to be buffered or else you get hit), or you can buffer roll away. Pretty much this just reaffirms that buffering full hop or roll is the safest and most consistent option. However against high bair I think I'm going to try that sh fade away laser more because it's good against them shielding or up tilt if I'm out of range. Seems like if you choose to sh aerial, it's winnable when they shield but not always favorable. But if you try to do sh fade away laser, it's winnable but not always favorable if they up tilt (hard to call their spacing cause you have to commit).

I hope that all made sense

Laser heights seem super important against Pikachu based on the trajectory of his sh nair and the fact that they can dash under mid lasers into d tilt or u smash i guess. Is it a matter of mixing up the heights of your lasers so that they have to mixup the timings of their sh nair in order to not get stuffed? Or can you normally stick to a certain laser height?

Do you think it's better to be on the front of pikachu's shield or the back during pressure?

Do you cross up pikachu's shield less because of the speed/range of uair oos?

Do you have any general tips for approaching pikachu? I try not to ask vague questions but I'm not really sure where to start in terms of getting in on her defense. If there's no super general rules and I should just learn it on a case by case basis then that's fine too. I'm thinking lateish aerials are slightly better against pikachu cause when she shields shes so short.

Don't really know much about this matchup so I'm more looking for starting points to explore.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I see, good info.

I'd recommend shooting a bit low to catch Nair startup and grounded movement. If you're spaced a bit farther away then shooting low is fine because you can Utilt/Bair/Dair any incoming Nair. You can also hold down if you shoot when you're closer to beat/not get punished by Nair.

Front of Pikachu's shield is better. Small grab range and slow/not that big Usmash.

Yeah you don't need to cross up Pikachu. Just doing moves on his shield is pretty hard for him to deal with.

Yeah late aerials or spaced Dairs are best. Don't really need to make any big swings in though since that's one of the only ways Pikachu can punish you.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

I see, good info.

I'd recommend shooting a bit low to catch Nair startup and grounded movement. If you're spaced a bit farther away then shooting low is fine because you can Utilt/Bair/Dair any incoming Nair. You can also hold down if you shoot when you're closer to beat/not get punished by Nair.

Front of Pikachu's shield is better. Small grab range and slow/not that big Usmash.

Yeah you don't need to cross up Pikachu. Just doing moves on his shield is pretty hard for him to deal with.

Yeah late aerials or spaced Dairs are best. Don't really need to make any big swings in though since that's one of the only ways Pikachu can punish you.

Hey PP from an experience I had today I now can't drink caffeine anymore. I pretty much relied on caffeine for friday night tournaments that start at 9 pm when I get up and start my day bright and early at 7 am. Do you have any advice for finding the energy in yourself to play? Or how to play with less energy? Or how to improve stamina with long term and short term solutions?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Building energy with regular exercise and good sleep was very useful to me and gave me as much energy as I needed. Diet and hydration can play their own roles too. If you'd like something a bit more eccentric then I'd recommend looking into the Wim Hof method.

Playing with less energy usually means relying more on reads and often slowing down so you conserve the energy you have and maximize gains per input and situation win.

 

[kaptinkillem]

I have two more game knowledge questions, both I feel like I should know but whatever lol.

1. Can you laser high enough against falcon that he cannot short hop nair over it? I feel like my biggest hardship for this matchup is being afraid to shoot lasers because I'm scared of nair.

2. Does dair shine combo on a grounded marth at 0? Usually when this situation comes up the marth im fighting is able to get his shield up, but I suspect either my dair is too high or im slow on the shine (likely both)

 

[Dr Peepee]

1. Yes

2. Yeah but you need to be pretty low and quick

 

[Basod]

MambaGreenFalco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA-HT0mhWTs At 00:43 why did you tilt your shield up? Is there an advantage to having your shield tilted up when defending from a descending/rising aerial? Or did you have some other plan?

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

MambaGreenFalco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA-HT0mhWTs At 00:43 why did you tilt your shield up? Is there an advantage to having your shield tilted up when defending from a descending/rising aerial? Or did you have some other plan?

I like that you asked me! Falco tends to have a pretty hard time shield poking people's feet if they're both standing on the stage (if you're both on a platform shield drop aerials and shield drop shine can poke). But from sh Falco has options that can poke high sometimes because of the angle bair and fair are at. Try putting a marth bot on full shield in 20xx, and then stand next to him and do a short hop fair, i think you'll be surprised how easily it hits marth when behind him, and it also hits marths head when you do the sh fair in front of him as well with a more precise timing. Also falling on top of people with dair can shield poke them but that doesn't happen much because people like to dodge dair rather than shield it and hitting a high dair on their shield is pretty bad.

To simplify it I was scared he was gonna sh bair shield poke me so just to be sure I tilted up, but got punished by the u tilt for tilting my sheild up too much which i didn't know was possible so I'm glad you brought this situation up.

 

[kaptinkillem]

What do you guys find to be the best and easiest way to punish another falcos double laser from ledge? I see westballz you shine out of shield but that doesnt seem great to me cuz its a more complicated input and requires a follow up hit that could be DI'd so they can get another chance at recovering

 

[Dr Peepee]

Sometimes you can aerial OOS and grab works too. You can take laser jab/Ftilt. You can DJ/use a platform to go over the laser and hit Falco, or go under it if he goes high and Dtilt/Dsmash or something grounded depending on how Falco shoots. You can also PS the laser and then grab or hit.

Also if the other Falco does DI shine away they can't DJ so you can get an easier edgeguard and sometimes a direct hit depending on percent and how far they DI.

 

[Zeyre]

I have a problem with knowing when to be the aggressor and when to play more defensive and go for whiff punishes.

I've been playing melee for like 2 months seriously now but I put in a lot of hours and have almost 900 matches on netplay and people say I way better than they were for 2 months but sometimes I get stuck trying to do the same thing over and over against opponents and have hard time switching my gameplan. There are times when I watch my opponents but that last for about as long as it takes for me to get a good punish. Most of my games are played on autopilot.

Should I be trying to play opponents higher skill level, roughly my skill level, or below my skill level