That's because it IS way faster
2 frames vs 7 frames for a perfect shine OoS iirc.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
2 frames vs 7 frames for a perfect shine OoS iirc.
MastaCHEF55
Smash Rookie
Only... two... frames..... yo that **** sounds kinda broken LMAO!!!That's because it IS way faster
MastaCHEF55
Smash Rookie
Just gotta practice it and play with people as often as u can my man
1. Jump at 'em and shine... Seriously though, there are a few scenarios you should know well to get benefits off shining them mid-air.
-He's above you in center-stage, below top platform : FH (full hop) > shine him > immediate DJ (double jump) WL (wave land) on the top platform. To WL, airdodge down just when you get past the platform. This is an absurdly good combo starter : you land on top platform and have all the time you want to set your combo by the time he's just above you and still in hitstun from your shine. You can shine again vs fast-fallers/early% or u-tilt vs floaties/high%, f-smash at kill%, dair > f-smash tech-chase, shine then FH shine again to shine off the top on mid-wheights and floaties, or shine > up-b to kill heavier characters at high%. etc;
-He's landing on a platform : FH > shine > WL on platform. It's the same idea, but you shine him on the platform / when you're right "inside" the platform. It's basically the same actions, but the timing is tight between the shine > DJ > WL. Depending on their DI/%, you can dair them offstage, dair > shine them again / dair > u-tilt, f-smash, weak nair > dsmash... If they DI to the top platform, you can follow them and shine > WL then on top platform, which leaves them open to most of the stuff from earlier.
-He's above platforms or there are no platforms : FH > shine > DJ > FF (fast fall) on him with a dair. This one is a bit shaky in comparaison, but can get the good stuff started as well. That won't work on floaties or at high% though. Generally, dair>shine / dair>u-tilt, f-smash/bair if he gets poped above you. Just know that he can tech the dair at >45% up to really high%.
2. jump > shine > immediate DJ (with control-stick you can be much faster) > bair (c-stick).
So it's :
>>. It's the best way to shine>bair. To shine>dair it's the same thing, but you should know that it's not as reliable as shine>bair : it'll work only if they DI in or don't DI at all.
V_x_I_D
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2014
- Messages
- 85
- NNID
- V_x_I_D
How fast do I need to put this input in?1. Jump at 'em and shine... Seriously though, there are a few scenarios you should know well to get benefits off shining them mid-air.
-He's above you in center-stage, below top platform : FH (full hop) > shine him > immediate DJ (double jump) WL (wave land) on the top platform. To WL, airdodge down just when you get past the platform. This is an absurdly good combo starter : you land on top platform and have all the time you want to set your combo by the time he's just above you and still in hitstun from your shine. You can shine again vs fast-fallers/early% or u-tilt vs floaties/high%, f-smash at kill%, dair > f-smash tech-chase, shine then FH shine again to shine off the top on mid-wheights and floaties, or shine > up-b to kill heavier characters at high%. etc;
-He's landing on a platform : FH > shine > WL on platform. It's the same idea, but you shine him on the platform / when you're right "inside" the platform. It's basically the same actions, but the timing is tight between the shine > DJ > WL. Depending on their DI/%, you can dair them offstage, dair > shine them again / dair > u-tilt, f-smash, weak nair > dsmash... If they DI to the top platform, you can follow them and shine > WL then on top platform, which leaves them open to most of the stuff from earlier.
-He's above platforms or there are no platforms : FH > shine > DJ > FF (fast fall) on him with a dair. This one is a bit shaky in comparaison, but can get the good stuff started as well. That won't work on floaties or at high% though. Generally, dair>shine / dair>u-tilt, f-smash/bair if he gets poped above you. Just know that he can tech the dair at >45% up to really high%.
2. jump > shine > immediate DJ (with control-stick you can be much faster) > bair (c-stick).
So it's :
To shine>dair it's the same thing, but you should know that it's not as reliable as shine>bair : it'll work only if they DI in or don't DI at all.
I can do it, but sometimes I don't connect with the bair or the dair.
Is it percentage based?
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
Shine bair and shine nair are equally legit combos, but you generally want shine bair for more style, knockback, and damage. It's not really % based, but I find it's easiest between ~30 and 180 on Fox. Before that is just weird and afterwards I'm not terribly confident in my speed. But I mean... at TAS level, shine bair is possible on Peach at 576%. Just grind it out and you should have it pretty soon. Try setting a CPU in Training Mode to 100% and getting the shinebair and just slowly increase their % until you're confident you can get it at most reasonable %s in both directions. This is how I do it vs Fox, by the way. I do know I can do it at a 180% Sheik on a good day... my bro's survival DI is really good sometimes.
-You can DJ on frame 2 of the shine, then you can bair on the 1st frame after that, since you're already airborne. So it means this can be executed pretty damn fast, and you can picture these kinds of inputs as almost simultaneous.
-Again, shine>bair is pretty much guaranteed, but shine>dair isn't. If you don't connect shine>bair, I think you could've been faster. Be sure to use the control stick to DJ, and the c-stick to bair : this way no crazy fast right thumb movement is required to get the quickest shine>bair possible.
-To some extend it is, but it's irrelevent : like Hector said, shine-bair is doable on all characters up to irrealist % like >200%. I don't know about it being harder at lower % though, but shine>bair is hardly what you should be doing at low% anyway.
Shine>dair is mainly DI dependent : it's a DI trap/mixup. It'll never connect on DI away; but if they're caught offstage DIing in to survive a nair/bair... well you know what happens. boom, next stock.
Hey. Does anyone know about the optimal way to mash out of grabs ? I've been very irritated lately by ICs and and a pummel-crazy Marth, and destroying my controller incoherently with my big angry hands hasn't been very effective.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
My understanding is that you should be thumbing between B, A, and X super quickly without pressing any two of them at once WHILE you move the control stick in rapid circles. I need to start including the rapid circling of the control stick, but the mashing itself has allowed me to get out of grabs if they try pummeling more than once around 20%.
Last edited:
Nope, jumping isn't possible until frame 4 of shine. Also when you hit with the shine there's 5 frames of hitlag for falco. So shine bair timing is like bowser wd timing, not instantaneous at all.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
I try out some goofy stuff when playing against computers, and for some reason find it difficult to shinebair them before 30%. I never said it was horribly relevant, but it's just one random observation of mine.
Well ok, you got me there. I writed this based off my intuition, not putting too much thought in it. And I learned something btw so thank you !
PPMD or somebody I need help from a player who knows how to develop completely consistent techskill. Right now i'm trying to work on getting falcos wavedash consistent and i'm running into a problem. I've been stuck on about 90% consistency on this wavedash for days now. Here is how my training sessions are going.
3 hours session overview
-Warm up my hands with hand stretches and all that good stuff
-Do a consistency check for 5-10 minutes. The consistency check works like this. I try to wavedash across the stage and for each pass across the stage I keep track of how many times i'm messing up with each pass. So for example I wavedash across the stage and mess up three times. My goal is to do better than 3 and move down to 0 on each pass. I also try to do some detective work to see if I can tell what caused that mistake.
- Begin the wavedashing grind with breaks every 20-30 minutes or whenever my hands get tired. Just back and forth across the stage or from standing in place or from a dash dance. I do this for hours. Every now and then if I don't see progress happening in my consistency I stop everything and really try to focus on the mistakes i'm making and why they're happening and what I should be doing to not make those mistakes happen. I should probably do this more tbh.
- Session ends a few hours later.
- Do a consistency check
- Its the exact same as when I started practicing. NO IMPROVEMENT.
Oh well maybe I just need to sleep on it right? Afterall my hands are pretty tired from playing that much.
Nope. The consistency stays the same the next day. No improvement. Its been like this for 5 days now.
I'll make a recording of it and post it if that will help.
3 hours session overview
-Warm up my hands with hand stretches and all that good stuff
-Do a consistency check for 5-10 minutes. The consistency check works like this. I try to wavedash across the stage and for each pass across the stage I keep track of how many times i'm messing up with each pass. So for example I wavedash across the stage and mess up three times. My goal is to do better than 3 and move down to 0 on each pass. I also try to do some detective work to see if I can tell what caused that mistake.
- Begin the wavedashing grind with breaks every 20-30 minutes or whenever my hands get tired. Just back and forth across the stage or from standing in place or from a dash dance. I do this for hours. Every now and then if I don't see progress happening in my consistency I stop everything and really try to focus on the mistakes i'm making and why they're happening and what I should be doing to not make those mistakes happen. I should probably do this more tbh.
- Session ends a few hours later.
- Do a consistency check
- Its the exact same as when I started practicing. NO IMPROVEMENT.
Oh well maybe I just need to sleep on it right? Afterall my hands are pretty tired from playing that much.
Nope. The consistency stays the same the next day. No improvement. Its been like this for 5 days now.
I'll make a recording of it and post it if that will help.
Last edited:
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
I can't guarantee you anything, but perhaps you're thinking about it too hard? At this point, wavedashing is must muscle memory for me, but I know that when I first started practicing it, I couldn't do multiple WDs in a row. Once I was able to WD a bunch of times, I'd still make one or two mistakes every now and then, but nothing too horrible. Even after that, it took me almost a week to be able to be able to WD at will out of run/dash. It's just something you've gotta seriously work on grinding out in all situations you can think of. Also, instead of trying to just do it alone, maybe try using your WDs in practice sessions against CPUs to see if you have the consistency necessary in that particular situation. JUST being able to WD isn't that useful. It's being able to use it for amazing movement mixups that is.
I feel you. Trying hard and not getting results is infuriating. If you do this for hours, it seems to me you're trying too hard. Don't force it, feeling stuck on something for 5 days (or more) is quite normal, for any and all smashers in the becoming. This is nothing to be alarmed, and with the kind of efforts and dedication you show, I don't have the slightest doubt you'll get over this obstacle sooner than later.
The truth is, even with perfect optimized training programs and courses, progress doesn't come at a constant rate. It just doesn't work like that, be it in music, math, tennis, whatever, we progress by leaps and jumps, and stagnate in between. Forcing it brings frustration and overthinking it is maddening, but everything will come in time as long as we don't give up.
About your training session, I think you're making it too hard on your hands and your nerves. Pure tech grinding shouldn't go on for hours ever. 10 minutes seem largely enough at a time. Then you can move on to something like moving all around the stage, with dash-dance, WD, wave-land on platforms, practice getting on and off the ledge with various options, then do shffl nairs all around, nair>shines, AC bairs, and a ****-ton of lasers, platform laser tricks etc etc. Putting in use what you grinded just before by incorporating it is both beneficial and satisfying. Also practice your punishes on lvl 3 cpus. It's necessary and is great fun after trying hard to get your tech-skill down. So rekt that fox cpu and have fun. Then you can go back to your WD marathon with a clear head again.
V_x_I_D
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2014
- Messages
- 85
- NNID
- V_x_I_D
Okay, guys.
first off, I want to thank everyone who's helped me with my opponent observation issue.
Over the last couple of day's I've gotten so much better and noticing not just the same options that my opponent uses to get back to the stage, but I've also learned how to break down "situations" during the match (What does he do when I approach, what is his escape option for shield pressure, etc.)
But now I come to you with just one more problem, and I feel like this is one of the few pieces of the puzzle.
So check it out,
I was playing friendlies and I was really working on observing my opponent.
As I was playing I'd notice that in certain situations, mostly me approaching and when I applied shield pressure, my opponent would roll AWAY from me if he were near the middle of the stage.
This is when I tried to start doing what I believe is considered "baiting"
I'd begin to apply this shield pressure, and I KNOW he'd roll away, but this is where the problem began:
HOW EXACTLY DO I PUNISH THIS?
I know I have a million options, and the one I usually went for often was a basic dash grab (I'm still working on mixing myself up, as well), but then I began overthinking the risk/reward aspect of reading his roll.
I mean, if I were to read his roll, It would have to be a hard read, right?
Then there were times where he WOULDN'T roll back, He tried to go for a spot dodge as I ran past him expecting to punish a roll.
This is where I began to think:
What's the point of punishing this roll when I could just reset the neutral, right??
allowing him to roll back and resetting the neutral seemed like the most logical/safe option to me.
Then I began thinking about it more after the matches I played.
Let's say that I played a better player who was consistent with his mixups, It seems to me like these hard reads I was making and every option I had would have been a dice roll, so what's the point of going for these hard reads if the odds aren't in my favor?
Does it come down to being able to REACT faster? Like, If I see the animation for a spot dodge come up, and I expect a roll, should I quickly Nair in order to frame trap my opponent?
I'm sorry if this all seems really jumbled and confusing to read, as it's difficult for me to even explain how I feel.
first off, I want to thank everyone who's helped me with my opponent observation issue.
Over the last couple of day's I've gotten so much better and noticing not just the same options that my opponent uses to get back to the stage, but I've also learned how to break down "situations" during the match (What does he do when I approach, what is his escape option for shield pressure, etc.)
But now I come to you with just one more problem, and I feel like this is one of the few pieces of the puzzle.
So check it out,
I was playing friendlies and I was really working on observing my opponent.
As I was playing I'd notice that in certain situations, mostly me approaching and when I applied shield pressure, my opponent would roll AWAY from me if he were near the middle of the stage.
This is when I tried to start doing what I believe is considered "baiting"
I'd begin to apply this shield pressure, and I KNOW he'd roll away, but this is where the problem began:
HOW EXACTLY DO I PUNISH THIS?
I know I have a million options, and the one I usually went for often was a basic dash grab (I'm still working on mixing myself up, as well), but then I began overthinking the risk/reward aspect of reading his roll.
I mean, if I were to read his roll, It would have to be a hard read, right?
Then there were times where he WOULDN'T roll back, He tried to go for a spot dodge as I ran past him expecting to punish a roll.
This is where I began to think:
What's the point of punishing this roll when I could just reset the neutral, right??
allowing him to roll back and resetting the neutral seemed like the most logical/safe option to me.
Then I began thinking about it more after the matches I played.
Let's say that I played a better player who was consistent with his mixups, It seems to me like these hard reads I was making and every option I had would have been a dice roll, so what's the point of going for these hard reads if the odds aren't in my favor?
Does it come down to being able to REACT faster? Like, If I see the animation for a spot dodge come up, and I expect a roll, should I quickly Nair in order to frame trap my opponent?
I'm sorry if this all seems really jumbled and confusing to read, as it's difficult for me to even explain how I feel.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
Reacting to spot dodge is really difficult. I think he noticed you were reading him. Lemme ask, though, what type of shield pressure do you opt for and what character was your opponent using?
I think that you're starting along the right path, though. Mixups with your pressure are probably what you need. I can't really give specific advice till I get some more info on what I asked above.
V_x_I_D
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2014
- Messages
- 85
- NNID
- V_x_I_D
Well, Sometimes I'd just go for a nair into shield. Sometimes I'd Dair shine, sometimes even me just running toward him would cause him to roll back.
He was using Marth.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
Alright, well you had the right beginning idea. One really easy (imo) shield pressure, both to do and practice, is low SHFFL n/dair shinegrab on shield. Put on infinite shields in 20XX or 20XXTE and just take some time to grind it out. The whole purpose of grabbing, as
Klemes
has spoken about extensively, is that it makes them feel less safe in shield. Side note: Marth's rolls and spotdodge aren't all that good so they're easier to punish than some other characters, but it can be pesky. Practice makes perfect(ish)
V_x_I_D
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2014
- Messages
- 85
- NNID
- V_x_I_D
Cool, I'll start to work on that. I appreciate the help.Alright, well you had the right beginning idea. One really easy (imo) shield pressure, both to do and practice, is low SHFFL n/dair shinegrab on shield. Put on infinite shields in 20XX or 20XXTE and just take some time to grind it out. The whole purpose of grabbing, as
Side note: Marth's rolls and spotdodge aren't all that good so they're easier to punish than some other characters, but it can be pesky. Practice makes perfect(ish)
But am I right in thinking that there's no point in committing to a hard read on a roll?
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
If he's above 100% and you're absolutely sure that you've got the read, it's fine to opt for an fsmash, dtilt, etc to either kill him or force him into a bad position. At most levels of play, however, you should be just fine not committing to anything like that.
MastaCHEF55
Smash Rookie
sometimes if my opponent is consistently rolling out of my shield pressure and they mix up their rolls well i like to dash to the left/right while shooting a turn around lazer to cover the oposite roll. If they roll to where i dashed out of my shield pressure (where i land after turn around lazer is shot) i can just shine turnaround grab em (or wtvr other pressure). If my read was off and they roll the other way they get hit by the lazer so i still have a chance of applying pressure. I dont see this used very much but its pretty much my go to when im on full autopilot against someone who rolls oos as soon as u start to apply pressure.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
While this does sound like a relatively good idea, there's one thing worries me... you said "when im going full autopilot..." I'm being completely honest when I tell you that you shouldn't be playing autopilot against anybody. If your automatic response to their rolling out of pressure that you consciously make is this choice, then it's okay. As a side note, I would think you should make sure that you take stage position when you do this so it's a win for you either way.
MastaCHEF55
Smash Rookie
I knew that someone would say something like this just to say it. I was more just letting u guys know one of my go to options rather than looking for advise about playing on autopilot. Dont worry, the only times i ever go autopilot are those super long and drawn out smashfests. Like the 10+ hour ones. I do agree that autopilot is a **** way to play. Paying attention to the game at hand is definitely the best way to learn and pick up on things.
You're on the right track. Thinking about all these situations and wheighting the good options and the not so good ones is key to getting on the next level, and falco gets massive payoff once the thinking machine is started.
About the shield pressure/catching rolls dilemma. If you KNOW he's gonna roll away because he did the last few times, sure, go for the read. I prefer not too commital moves to punish reads like nair or dair. What this does is, additionaly to giving you your punish, it'll bring a new factor to the situation next time you hit his shield. He'll remember last time he rolled away he got punished, so he'll think twice about doing it again. If he's Marth, he basically have no OoS options, and it's good practice because you always need to space out of his huge shield-grab. So he can roll away (punished once), roll in (terrible, free f-smash for you), spot dodge (basically not an option since it's so bad) and hold shield. When he holds shield, that's all the more occasions for you to get a poke with shines, and it tends to build the pressure mentally too. And last, there's the shine-grab. It beats shield, isn't risky at all, it's the last stone of shield-pressure.
So now, as long as you don't mess-up, he really can't punish you at all, his best hope is to get away safely, and all his options are threatened whatever he does. Against good players who don't show any bad habit you can punish, you should mix it up yourself, don't commit to your reads too hard/too often. You always wanna stay relatively safe, and not getting caught off-guard after a hard read for instance. You can't be doing that if you wanna stay in control.
Also, as a general rule, you'll want to stay safe and be fine with letting them roll away to reset neutral as long as you're even or in the lead. Don't wanna throw away in a second what you worked hard to get. Be very safe, trade to extend your lead, only go in when you know he's opened for a punish. On the other hand, you don't have that luxury when you're fighting from behind. To end their stock quickly, you should go for more high risk-high reward options.
Lastly, about reacting to their options. Your capacity to react accordingly to something hard to punish gets instantly 10 times better if you expect what their about to do. Now this is what you call a bait : you do something to trigger a reaction from you opponent, then punish him for his reaction, which you meant to get from him from the start.
Take "the Mango" for example. Marth is in shield, falco hits his shield with a fadeback dair, landing out of Marth's shieldgrab range. Marth shieldgrabs, because he recognized that this dair was not even close to safe pressure, opening himself up for falco to f-smash him. So you hit his shield with fade-away dair, you expect him to shieldgrab, you're able to react instantly to his shieldgrab attempt and f-smash him. If he doesn't bite, resume neutral/pressure, without having commited too hard to your trap.
V_x_I_D
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2014
- Messages
- 85
- NNID
- V_x_I_D
Well I really appreciate the help, guys.
I found this mode in 20XX which allows you to hit your opponent in shield and it will either Nair, roll in/out/spotdodge.
And I think it's for hard reads to shield pressure.
What do I do against a fox that rolls back? It's such a fast roll, i have no clue what to do.
I found this mode in 20XX which allows you to hit your opponent in shield and it will either Nair, roll in/out/spotdodge.
And I think it's for hard reads to shield pressure.
What do I do against a fox that rolls back? It's such a fast roll, i have no clue what to do.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
Against Fox and Falco (IDK of other chars with super quick rolls), if they roll back, I'd be happy to just take the stage positioning and then just set up some kind of a defensive wall. Should be pretty beneficial and then easier to win the neutral.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I was looking into how dependable laser-utilt combos are on airborne opponents, specifically Marth when he's trying to fair after the laser. Figured I'd post it here to share as well as for archival purposes.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/112JRDB7e7K2KGArefZr5CGnsyofwvoSDBmCHvu8rGUk/edit?usp=sharing
This timeline assumes the best case scenario where Marth falls onto the laser hitbox on the same frame Falco lands. Normally you will have to fall for few frames, so the realistic frame advantage is closer to 3 frames than 6. You might also lose a frame or 2 due to the difficulty of turnaround utilt, but they're unlikely to fair frame perfect as well. Even accounting for those errors, it seems totally possible to consistently beat fairs after laser with turnaround utilt as long as you are within range.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/112JRDB7e7K2KGArefZr5CGnsyofwvoSDBmCHvu8rGUk/edit?usp=sharing
This timeline assumes the best case scenario where Marth falls onto the laser hitbox on the same frame Falco lands. Normally you will have to fall for few frames, so the realistic frame advantage is closer to 3 frames than 6. You might also lose a frame or 2 due to the difficulty of turnaround utilt, but they're unlikely to fair frame perfect as well. Even accounting for those errors, it seems totally possible to consistently beat fairs after laser with turnaround utilt as long as you are within range.
a bit late on my end but you can punish the roll depending on when he rolls. if you hit fox's shield with shine and then he rolls away, you can wavedash out of your shine and then shine him before he does anything. if you hit fox with a laser and then he rolls, you can chase it down and hit him - assuming that you landed right in front of hit with the laser. if you landed the laser and there is some space in between fox and falco, then you can inch forward and/or laser and then get ready for the next thing
Nice. Laser u-tilt is so juicy ! So waching this timeline, if you're perfect, you should beat sheik and peach mashing nair as well. My concern would be more about avoiding trading laser vs marth or sheik fair, if they throw out their move to beat your jump ; you'd need the mother of all spacings to land your laser out of marth's fair range, but close enough to link your turnaround u-tilt.
On another note, I've been getting plenty of laser > f-smash on an airborne Marth. Everytime I'm like "I'm so good yeah !" "Bet ya didn't see that one commin' did ya ?" "What you gonna do 'bout that huh ?"
Bones0
Smash Legend
Laser doesn't combo into fsmash so if you're landing it on Marths it's because they're not fairing even remotely quick enough. There is the occasional exception when you're spaced in such a way that fsmash will at least trade and KO him, but aside from that I'd recommend ftilting instead since that is a true combo and has more range than utilt. If they're too low of a % for ftilt to keep you safe, then you might want to dash in and shield or CC the fair.
Okay. My plan was to laser>ftilt on grounded opponents, and go all in and laser>fsmash when they're airborne. But yeah I can totally trust that's punishable.
Shielding / CCing when they land ? I don't like it very much honestly. I always think about how not to give them grab opportunities so if they figure it out and grab, like puff loves to threaten an aerial to make you shield then just land and grab you...
Wall out with AC bair after the laser seems good to me at these lower %.
valakmtnsmash4
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2015
- Messages
- 708
- NNID
- yathshiv
Whenever I am in the lead, I always try to go for high level tech, and that ends up in me choking SO MUCH in matches. This happenes when I try to pillar as well, I usually dair to my doom.
At this rate I'll be westballz 2.0 with twice the SDs.
Any tips on combating this problem?
At this rate I'll be westballz 2.0 with twice the SDs.
Any tips on combating this problem?
Didn't read the actual thing, but some pdf TL DR and watched a few YT videos about it.
What I took from it :
1. Many teachers watch the student play, then explain to him what is bad and how he should be doing instead.
- the book says a better approach is instead : the teacher doesn't constantly observe and correct the student, but often show him how he plays instead, letting the student learn through his own observation skills.
- Melee : asking for feedback on vods or from playing a better player is fine, but shouldn't take priority over watching ****-tons of good falcos and melee in general. Thinking about the game by yourself, and not centering your thoughts around yourself and your play but on the whole game and it's mechanics and interactions.
We all pick up "bad habits" from playing other low level players : rolling too much, throwing smash attacks in neutral, shield-grab etc. These are just strategies that work at lower level, but will get you destroyed against a decent player. When trying to improve, don't focus too much on trying to eliminate these bad habits in the first place. Instead observe the "good things" better players do and pick up what you recognize and is within your reach. As you use your newly acquired tools more and more your older "gimmicks", which doesn't pay off nearly as much as the new stuff, will naturally be left behind.
2.When playing an actual match, with various stakes or context, you have two intellectual functions working at the same time.
-The first one is your train of thoughts : the one who'll get annoyed if there's too much noise around, will be restless if you're tired or hungry, if you've got personnal problems going on etc. So this is a problem easily understood and resolved : try and prepare to be in the best condition possible in the first place, then if everything isn't perfect, get over it and push it aside for as long as you're playing.
But that is not all ; this is also the same voice who'll watch your play and pick it appart to analyse every single mistakes, the voice who keeps the stock count and warn you if it knows you're in danger to lose, who'll get frustrated if you get punished for the same thing twice etc etc. You get me, that is the voice who just won't shut up.
-The other is the one who actually plays the game.
That's what you refer to as "muscle memory", or when someone says "let your body play, it knows better" or some ****.
So this is all silly because your muscles have no memory and this stuff obviously happens in your brain, but it's how we found a way to name it and differenciate it from our conscious thinking system. This "muscle memory" has a name and very a detailled understanding and description in the field of cognitive science/psychology. I just totally forgot everything about it.
So this all mean that there is a time for watching, and there's a time for playing.
When you play countless hours of friendlies you'd be stupid to just go in brainless 24/7. You want to use and train your analytical skills to identify what you do wrong and why. Use them to watch your opponent and pick up his habits for you to exploit. Use them when you watch two other friends play and you're free to observe without having to play yourself. Record your play and watch it later, see if you can spot interactions and stuff you couldn't see when you have the controller in your hands. Next time you play watch out and see if you're able to recognize the same stuff happenig live now that you put your finger on it on your vods. Doing all this you increase your consciousness of all the options one has in the infinity of different scenarios, of different gameplans and notions like stage control or other stuff that you can't grasp with a single look.
BUT
When you're playing a "serious" game, might be a tournament match, or playing your friend when you both play your mains and you both wanna win.
Your train of tought,
whether you're thinking "**** I shouldn't have had chili now I gotta fart like crazy"
or "Okay so he's teched this way 57% of the last 20 past samples, following for the most part a AABCACDBBAC cycle reflecting the risk reward conditionning I put on him, knowing I shouldn't go for a hard read below a 65% chance of success unless at a deficit in which case a 50% chance is acceptable, should I knee on tech in place ?"
will always interfer with your playing and keep you from reaching your full potential. This potential represents your peak performance at your current ability, and can't be achieved unless you enter a state of "flow".
So this flow is described in various way, but what's most important isn't to understand what it is precisely, but to create the conditions to achieve it, so that you can experience it yourself.
I remember it happening to me for the first time when playing Counter Strike (Source at the time). I wasn't very good at it, you know how it is : everyone is a beast and I'm barely more that headshot food for the better players. But, one time, the whole team was dead and I found the bomb. So everyone is watching me on the killcam and I have a seemingly impossible task to do. I suddenly feel a huge pressure on my shoulders, but it meets a desire to win just a huge, and then I just let go of the fear. What ensued was the ordinary stuff of legend. I killed 5/6 enemies, all of which were far better than me, and even in a 2v1. The game chat was literally exploding with "OMGs" and "WHO IS THIS GUY" and "DO IT KLEMES", my whole being was pure hype and focus. Then I realized for a second "hey this ain't normal how could this be possible" and I was immediately shot in the back from an angle I didn't cover perfectly, by the last enemy standing.
So this whole sequence must have lasted like 30 seconds, yet I had never felt this good before.
The flow is best known by athletes if you belive the litterature about it. It's about overcoming a challenge that seems just above your own percieved abilities, by letting go of your conscious thinking and embracing this challenge with your whole being. May it be climbing a mountain, riding a wave, running faster that you've ever run, beating an opponent you've never beaten etc.
Mango talked about it to scar when he wouldn't stop ranting about everything that gets on his nerves and affect his playing.
He said something like "let everything frustrating slide over you, focus on water, be water". So this is my short, caricatural version, but that's basically it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLyFaxqJCLA
(sorry I didn't take the time to find the moment he says it, but pretty sure it's in there)
So to "get in the zone", you absolutely want to silence that voice who tells you what's good, what's bad, why you suck, how unlikely it is for you to win and so on. Focusing on water, wind or some **** is but a way of telling your train of thought "you're not needed right now, everything is fine". So the informations like the stock count and what you know about your opponent don't matter anymore. It can even go as far as forgetting your conscience of your physical body. All you know is your goal. Literally everything else doesn't even exist.
That's how you get there, and that's where you'll be playing your absolute best, surpassing what you thought yourself capable of. From my perspective (and yes I didn't even read the book), that's what The Inner Game of Tennis is about.
*wow I didn't plan on writing an essay. I spent so much time on this but I didn't even see the hours pass by. Guess I've been in a little flow myself for a while haha.
FE_Hector
Smash Lord
The most recent "Mango and Pals" episode of the Scar and Toph show is amazing when Mango's giving Scar advice on how to balance the conscious and subconscious. Hax$s troll was really funny, too. The video's like 2 hours, but entirely worth watching.
(Klemes mentioned it, so I thought I'd just reinforce what he said.)
(Klemes mentioned it, so I thought I'd just reinforce what he said.)
Last edited: