PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Twilight Emblem]

I still need to know the max amount of times falco can use his aerials in 10 seconds. I am focusing on creating a falco that is as fast as humanly possible with the capability of switching between different notches of speed during the match with intelligence and accuracy with his playstyle. I need to know where he caps out, my learning style will permit me to learn this speed if I can just hone in on what it is. I'm weird like that.

To be clear I need to know how many times he can dair in 10 seconds, fair in 10 seconds, Nair in 10 seconds, and bair in 10 seconds
I also need to know how many times he can do the above when he is hitting somebody with an aerial so we need to account for hit stun and not for hit stun

Finally this is a separate order, I need to learn the timing formula in general for hit stun in this game. I tested myself earlier and I realized I do not have a real understanding or sense of timing of how long hit stun actually lasts in this game. This means I jump in to commit to an attack after hit stun is done, which leaves me open. It also makes me play "off" and hasty because I am always rushing things in fear that i'm not fast enough to make up for the hitlag I do not understand

I am currently grinding out in training mode combos while trying to read how long the hit stun lasts but i'd like to see if somebody here knows the timing which would help me a lot.

I got a post earlier asking why I ask for so much help instead of doing this all myself. My posts are not a dependent cry for help but a synergistic independent approach for creating faster progress in cooperation with other individuals for myself and other people. Any help I get here can be read by others to help accelerate their progress. I improve much faster with input from other players and I still put in hours to play and improve by myself on top of it


Also multi shining is really hard with falco lol. I've read the thread on it and made a plan in training mode to learn it but its still extremely hard for me to do. I guess grinding it out and really thinking and experimenting on it is the only way to really learn this

 

[Bones0]

Hitstun timing isn't something you can reasonably calculate mid-game, you just have to play until you get used to it. It's based on the character's weight, their percentage, whether or not you spiked them off the ground, whether or not they were CCing, what move you use, what hitbox you hit with, and how early/late in the move you hit them for some moves (nair, bair, etc).

Focus on characters' hitstun animations. You can usually tell when they change from hitstun to tumble because they start actually tumbling. Other than that and practicing in Training Mode, there's not much else you can do to learn the timings.

 

[Twilight Emblem]

Actually come to think of it, I think my goal of trying to get a very fast falco might help with the hit stun problem. At least at lower percents. If i'm fast enough to keep throwing out very fast l canceled moves/approaches, i'll always be faster than the hit stun my moves are causing, keeping them in hit stun and won't even have to worry about any of those visual observations. If I combine this approach with a very intelligent percent appropriate and matchup appropriate move selection to keep them locked in combos that respect their DI and weight I can systematically keep a person in hitstun for awhile and just move from move to move at a high speed, keeping them locked into the combo indefinitely until they're bodied or at a high percent.

Of course not true for all characters like jigglypuff and lighter characters but, lol

That information is helpful bones and i'll be sure to try to use it to help develop a sense of timing like you say. I think I just need to play the game more, I've been away from it for months at this point and just got back on the train.

 

[Bones0]

Actually come to think of it, I think my goal of trying to get a very fast falco might help with the hit stun problem. At least at lower percents. If i'm fast enough to keep throwing out very fast l canceled moves/approaches, i'll always be faster than the hit stun my moves are causing, keeping them in hit stun and won't even have to worry about any of those visual observations. If I combine this approach with a very intelligent percent appropriate and matchup appropriate move selection to keep them locked in combos that respect their DI and weight I can systematically keep a person in hitstun for awhile and just move from move to move at a high speed, keeping them locked into the combo indefinitely until they're bodied or at a high percent

Unless DI is a lot better at getting people out of combos than I thought which is very possible, I've done little research into DI at high level play

You don't always want to hit them as quickly as possible though. A common occurrence is you will be comboing the opponent into a KO move, and if you know exactly when their stun ends, you can let them fly as far as possible before dealing the finishing blow. If you hit them as early as possible, they will be further on stage and more likely to survive. Hitting them right as stun ends also results in them losing their jump more often because they may try to jump out of the combo (or tap jump accidentally because they were trying to DI upwards). There are also just situations where you aren't fast enough to combo directly and realizing they'll be out of stun is the quickest way to change your plan of action.

 

[Twilight Emblem]

Oh yes of course, the attempt with my falco is that i'm trying to create speed that is mindful and considerate of the situation to provide an effective answer.
I did give a false reckless impression with my earlier post in saying I was using the speed to 'take care of everything" I promise i'm just throwing around ideas at that point. Props for sharing the additional considerations. I did not ever consider waiting to let them travel further through hit stun to help them get to the edge and the "high chance of using the jump" situation is a nice observation as well.

A big obstacle I find is learning to "chase" good DI with follow up moves to keep a combo going. Without access to good DI from opponents most of the time, getting a handle on that seems very difficult. I'm not sure how to train for that. Until I get used to chasing good DI I don't think my punish game will be very good vs people who have good DI. It seems like a hard thing to really do if you don't have a way to simulate that DI in your training on an opponent.

 

[Bones0]

Oh yes of course, the attempt with my falco is that i'm trying to create speed that is mindful and considerate of the situation to provide an effective answer.
I did give a false reckless impression with my earlier post in saying I was using the speed to 'take care of everything" I promise i'm just throwing around ideas at that point. Props for sharing the additional considerations. I did not ever consider waiting to let them travel further through hit stun to help them get to the edge and the "high chance of using the jump" situation is a nice observation as well.

A big obstacle I find is learning to "chase" good DI with follow up moves to keep a combo going. Without access to good DI from opponents most of the time, getting a handle on that seems very difficult. I'm not sure how to train for that. Until I get used to chasing good DI I don't think my punish game will be very good vs people who have good DI. It seems like a hard thing to really do if you don't have a way to simulate that DI in your training on an opponent.

If they are just DIing away all the time, you have to identify that and start fsmashing earlier in your combos. At lower percents when you're pillaring, try crossing them up more often so their DI away ends up keeping them right above you. I also like using usmash for troublesome DI because if they are DIing towards you they will end up behind you (I get people off stage and dair them with this all the time coming back from the ledge), and if they DI away they just don't go as far as if you had naired or something. Even dairing them and working the ensuing tech chase can be good if the only alternative was them escaping the combo.

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

Read somewhere this is the place to get your video critiqued

Plz critique me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsLf4UxYFxQ

 

[KingDozie]

Ok i had this problem against this fox that would just FJ fastfall Uair my falco or just do a double jump after i do my aerials and i dont know how to beat that.

 

[Bones0]

Read somewhere this is the place to get your video critiqued

Plz critique me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsLf4UxYFxQ

- You need to learn to ledgedash (basing this off of you DJing from the ledge and getting fsmashed).

- You daired Fox into the ground and didn't react to his missed tech. You have to always be hit confirming/tech confirming during combos. If they miss the tech or tech and place and are at KO %, you need to always get the dsmash to send them off. If they techroll, you need to land the fsmash. If they are at lower percents, utilt is usually a good go-to move to continue the combo (shining opponents after they missed techs will often cause them to fly away with no stun which is why you don't want to shine missed techs unless you know it is unstaled [staling matters because the move has to be at almost full strength in order to keep them in tumble]).

- When you laser someone, don't assume they will sit still in shield. React to their jump, roll, or whatever they do. Pay attention to their patterns to position yourself better, but try to stay reactive instead of guessing what they will do.

- When you miss aerials, you tend to just sit still for a second. If you miss, you have to be immediately moving afterwards, and even if you hit you have to hit confirm and already be moving for the followup (goes back to the second note of reacting to your hits).

- Your tech is sluggish. You take a little too long jump cancelling your shines and WDing and moving after lag, and it's making it harder/impossible for you to string combos together properly.

Ok i had this problem against this fox that would just FJ fastfall Uair my falco or just do a double jump after i do my aerials and i dont know how to beat that.

Laserin Fox as he lands is my go-to option vs. FH happy Foxes. It depends a lot on how they are doing it. You can also try using platforms to jump down on top of his landing or just utilting underneath him to trade/beat his aerial if it will end up in your favor.

 

[PolishSmash]

Why are some people on a different level (skill) then others? Is it just their tech skill? How can I break the barrier to get to the next level? What can I do to understand this game more? You know what I mean?

 

[rpotts]

Play better opponents and figure out why they beat you, then practice, implement new techs/strategies and then use them to consistently beat them.

 

[Bones0]

Why are some people on a different level (skill) then others? Is it just their tech skill? How can I break the barrier to get to the next level? What can I do to understand this game more? You know what I mean?

Of course it isn't just tech skill, otherwise Dark would be the best in the world. How often do you play people?

 

[SAUS]

Why are some people on a different level (skill) then others? Is it just their tech skill? How can I break the barrier to get to the next level? What can I do to understand this game more? You know what I mean?

There are so many ways to be better than someone that it is very hard to answer this question. Tech skill is very important, but at some point, you don't need to improve it any more - or improving it will not help you beat your opponents. Being faster with your reactions and just generally knowing what to do in more situations is a big part. One nice step you can take is ask the people who beat you why they are beating you.

It will ultimately come down to "why". Why did you lose that match? Where were the mistakes - the real mistakes. Some people will get stuck and say "there's nothing I can do about this situation". That may be entirely true, but how can you avoid that situation? Make sure you find the real answer to those questions and try stuff that you think will have a better outcome.

After repeated uses of some strategy that works, it will become natural and obvious/easy. Keep packing this type of knowledge and experience on and you will become dominant in many situations. Always pay attention to what you are losing to, and figure out how to fix it or change it. If something is working, ask yourself if there was something better you could've done. Stuff like that. The "why" can be applied to things you do correctly too. Why do you shine out of shield when the fox does a close range dash attack? He will end up inside your shield and it will basically always hit, and then you can combo off of it. Etc. Etc.

 

[PolishSmash]

@Bones I usually play only my group of friends usually twice a week over the weekend because that's when I'm free. I played Marth for a long time but struggled because I didn't really understand how to play on reaction and I would just go in blindly. I think my biggest weakness is the fact that I am overly aggressive. This is why I switched to Falco to maybe help me. It's gotten a lot better but I am still very impatient and I need to work on it. I just want to go in all the time.

@ SAUS Thanks man this really cleared it up a bit. Kind of reminds me of poker always asking yourself "why?" when performing certain actions at the table to see if you are making the correct decision. There's a lot of stuff that I don't even realize sometimes. My friend that's a lot better than me showed me that when I SH dair to shine I hold down C-stick too long instead of just flicking it. This caused lag for some reason I don't know why but after I became way faster.

 

[mas_torque]

What does everyone think of uair and fair as shield pressure? It seems like it would work pretty well as it doesn't seem to have any big openings and has a higher chance of randy shield pokes.

 

[Bones0]

What does everyone think of uair and fair as shield pressure? It seems like it would work pretty well as it doesn't seem to have any big openings and has a higher chance of randy shield pokes.

Uair's hitbox is hard to keep over top of the opponent, but I could see it working. Fair is too risky because they can shield grab if you get a poke, and even if you do poke they can CC and shield/grab you right out of it.

 

[mas_torque]

Uair's hitbox is hard to keep over top of the opponent, but I could see it working. Fair is too risky because they can shield grab if you get a poke, and even if you do poke they can CC and shield/grab you right out of it.

I figured both would work well because even if it isn't the strong hitbox of uair it should lead to a shine and fair could be used at higher percents to push offstage and force a reaction

 

[whitemountain123]

I figured both would work well because even if it isn't the strong hitbox of uair it should lead to a shine and fair could be used at higher percents to push offstage and force a reaction

You need to think about the hitboxes of these moves, where they'll hit on shield, how vulnerable they leave you...although it can be good to question established tactics for creativity, there's a reason why the only aerials top falcos use for shield pressure are nair, bair, and dair (but mostly nair and bair).

 

[PolishSmash]

When you SH > Dair > FF > L cancel > Shine....is there a difference between holding the C-stick to perform the dair and just flicking the C-stick to perform the dair? Does just flicking it and letting it reset to its neutral position make the dair faster?

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

When you SH > Dair > FF > L cancel > Shine....is there a difference between holding the C-stick to perform the dair and just flicking the C-stick to perform the dair? Does just flicking it and letting it reset to its neutral position make the dair faster?

No same move regardless

 

[mas_torque]

No difference. All that matters is the timing of inputs.

Same deal with L canceling via a light or hard press of the shoulder button, although hard presses can make you miss techs if you get hit.

 

[SAUS]

I figured both would work well because even if it isn't the strong hitbox of uair it should lead to a shine and fair could be used at higher percents to push offstage and force a reaction

I think fair has too much landing lag. I'm not 100% sure on that though. I use up-air if the opponent is shielding on a platform sometimes (if it is low enough). Other than that, I don't shield pressure with aerials much anyway - at least not in a shuffle-shine way. It isn't really that safe.

 

[mooki]

Anyone mind giving me some advice please? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvJycNvFpOk&feature=youtu.be
Thanks.

 

[outofphase]

I just realized SH fair can hit through a lot of side platforms. I'm starting to test its usefulness, anybody else ever experiment with it? I have hit a few fair->jab->dsmash combos on fastfallers right at the edge but I'm trying to find a neutral game application.

 

[Oskurito]

You can hit floaties (or fast fallers at a bit high %) twice with fair if you don't fast fall it. You can probably chain it this way 2 or 3 times and finish them off with a dair, however I'm guessing is possible to DI or even SDI the second hit of the fair so not sure how effective this combo can be. Fair seems to have a little bit more range, just look at the hitboxes on the falco frame data thread, but I'm yet to find or see its potential for the neutral game.

Up-throw to fair works wonders on marth as shown by dr.pp and you can follow it with an up-tilt and probably dair+shine+etc. or shine + firebird.

 

[Oskurito]

Anyone mind giving me some advice please? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvJycNvFpOk&feature=youtu.be
Thanks.

I just watched the first 2 matches.

You need to work on your laser game, lasering shuts down falcon's mobility, and negates almost every approach giving you control and time to think of an approach or bait him to approach you. Your laser game on platforms was pretty much non existent.

You also need to work on your combos, almost every combo opportunity you had, you could have easily took a stock or setup an edgeguard. Example: At 0:13 you approached with a shl into dair shine then uair, but then you stood there doing nothing and gave falcon a chance to jump out. You need to be quick, when falcon's don't DI away from your shine just DJ dair L-cancel and shine again and follow from there as if he were a floatie, if not then waveshine to dair him across the stage, or you could juggle him with nairs and finish with f-smash or d-smash. I'm not going to get into the platforms, is obvious that you need some work there too.

Your mobility didn't seem as fluent, you barely even dash danced or wavedashed around, neither on the platforms, work on your tech skill, watch my videos for ideas.

 

[burgerkong]

Anyone mind giving me some advice please? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvJycNvFpOk&feature=youtu.be
Thanks.

I'm definitely not as good as Oskurito, but aside from what he mentioned, your actual edgeguard game seems to need a little bit of work.

VS

More LASERS. A lot of time you were half screen away on FD and you were rolling away instead of retreating reverse lasering, which would tacked on damage and forced his approach.

2:54 was particularly ugly. On the ledge, you could have just jump daired or edgehogged and punished his landing on stage. Even after getting hit by his upB, a simple sh dair would've killed him, but instead you went for ftilt (which is decent but only if they're coming from above) and a dtilt (which is especially bad against Falcon since he takes forever to die from it). Instances like 6:40 should have been a fairly simple bair or dair edgeugard.

While the opponent is on the ledge, it's not safe to be that close to him due to invincible wavedash onstage and invincible aerials off the ledge. 4:28 I'm pretty sure Falcon could've quickly wavedashed onstage or invincible knee'd you from the ledge. 6:35 was a similar situation, though that time you were charging an fsmash which would've never hit if your opponent had been a little more patient.

VS

In general Dreamland should be a good stage for Falco against Marth. You have all the room in the world to laser, but you seemed to approach for no reason when you can force Marth's approach with sh lasers.

10:23 that sequence was pretty ugly. You would've been fine if you jumped once to refresh invincibility just before or rolled onstage. I dunno what happened with that airdodge. 14:50 same situation, jump regrab ledge to refresh invincibility, or just wait with your back to the ledge and wavedash back when he gets close to upB. Marth killer edgehog is also an option (google it).

@ 16:30 rather than run away from the ledge a crouch-cancelled dsmash would've just killed Marth outright. You did it right after, but it's more guaranteed from the ledge (unless he wall techs it).

18:28 could've just gone for the ledgehog and then back aired from the ledge rather than just waiting onstage.

Yoshi's is not a good counterpick IMO, though I guess it's more to your comfort level. It's not bad for Falco, but Stadium would definitely be my preferred CP; plenty of room to avoid Marth's sword and laser to your heart's content. Marth's sword covers a lot of the stage on Yoshi's and tipper will kill you at fairly low percents. 18:28 in particular is why I don't love Yoshi's against Marth

 

[SSBMLahti]

I don't wish to come off as rude, but this question is aimed solely at PP:

As of late I have been playing Melee with actual players- and have I have been improving both my technical and decision making abilities greatly- and I am the best I have ever been.

With that being said, and as with everyone, I still have many aspects that can be improved upon- but I have one major flaw: Falco vs Marth on FD. I have a hard time approaching Marth on FD as Falco. As I play the matchup more and more, I realize accurate lasers and a less forward approach are a must, but some more detailed insight on the matchup, and most importantly how to approach Marth would be greatly appreciated

Thanks!

 

[Dr Peepee]

I have not forgotten my previous questions, but I am having difficulties right now. I can answer this question easily so I will do it =)

Falco vs Marth on FD is basically a lot of ground game. The more you like jumping to platforms to escape Marth on other stages, the harder your life will be on FD. Get accustomed to FH answers to pressure and mixing that with ways to escape the corner like attacks out or WD pokes.

Getting Marth stuck in shield is usually a good way to go about getting approaches. Get about Marth dash attack range or a little farther away and begin closing that gap with lasers. DD is necessary to adjust space and observe when he might want to come in. Dair and Nair are fine to approach with. Dair is better if you think you'll get a hit, and Nair is generally better to hit shields or jumps with. Laser into grab or shine grab.

Good luck!

 

[ChikoLad]

Would just like to say that Falco is my new Melee main. It was Mario, but I started going back to Melee today, and experimenting with characters. I remembered enjoying Falco in Brawl and PM, but never really practiced with him. I ended up sticking with him today though, and even though I never really used him before, I can take out Lv.9 CPUs without losing stock already (I accomplished it against Roy). I survived over 200% too, in that same match. This was something I never really accomplished as Mario.

I know Lv.9 CPUs are not really that difficult in Melee, but I still feel accomplished considering I've only been using Falco for a very short time. I feel like I'm rapidly improving.

Now I really wish Smash Bros had tournaments around here.

 

[mooki]

//Edit: As I'm watching this video I started thinking about how I should be asking for more specific advice about fixing my play. For example, at 4:33 I'm sure a simple turn-around laser would have worked out great and let me move in a bit. That's were I'm needing help though. After I get that laser, how can I use it to my advantage? I feel like if I move in at all after the laser, Sheik's just going to grab me and throw me off the ledge, leading to a kill. That's why I think I chose to use AC Bairs to try to stop Sheik from coming back which didn't even work and got me punished, instead of what's I'm assuming would be better the better option (the laser).

----

Ok, I practiced my tech skill a bit this weekend and came back with another video. I tried to laser more and have more fluent movement this time, but I think it's still going to take many more hours of grinding to get fully used to turn around lasers with this white controller.

I was hoping someone could take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5JCWBmgG-g&feature=youtu.be (the sound got very desynced so I just added some music over it so it wasn't silent) and let me know what some of my larger mistakes are so I could try to fix them as well as any tidbits of help I could get too please. I'm very inexperienced with the Sheik match-up so any advice with that would be extremely helpful as well.

Thanks again guys.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Ok, I practiced my tech skill a bit this weekend and came back with another video. I tried to laser more and have more fluent movement this time, but I think it's still going to take many more hours of grinding to get fully used to turn around lasers with this white controller.

I was hoping someone could take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5JCWBmgG-g&feature=youtu.be (the sound got very desynced so I just added some music over it so it wasn't silent) and let me know what some of my larger mistakes are so I could try to fix them as well as any tidbits of help I could get too please. I'm very inexperienced with the Sheik match-up so any advice with that would be extremely helpful as well.

Thanks again guys.

You need to get better at shield-pressuring with pillars or SHFFL nairs into shine (into endless number of possibilities. It's great that you keep sheik in shield, that is what you want: to elicit your opponent to react. If you want to practice shield pressuring at home, then just put starman on and try to shield-pressure your computer opponent after letting it receive the starman.

Also, you need to be more fluid (i know people keep telling you this). Just don't forget to keep moving, which ultimately keeps your opponent guessing. If you just stand there and SH laser, then it becomes way too obvious. You can just fake your laser to trip your opponent out by just short-hopping without doing anything in the air.

Specifically for the Sheik match-up, theoretically, you should be dead with one or two grabs from Sheik at top level. Just remember that she has very limited options against your defensive lasers. She can't f-tilt you when you're shooting lasers, so just watch out for dash-attacks (goes under high lasers), and just wait for her reaction. If she goes on top of the platform, then it's a danger sign to get out of there because of her aerial needle platform tricks. And don't get aggravated when you eat a full set of needles. Seriously, you have one of the most fulfilling punishes in the game against sheik (guaranteed 30-80% if you combo correctly), so don't become impatient when you get hit either by needles or melee attacks.

tl;dr just work on tech skills and basic movement some more, then we will give you a more detailed analysis and set of critiques, including combos, laser tricks, platform tricks, specific responses to opponent's moves, and so on.

 

[SSS]

How to edgeguard Samus?

Also realtalk I do not know what to do after a grab.

 

[mooki]

You need to get better at shield-pressuring with pillars or SHFFL nairs into shine (into endless number of possibilities. It's great that you keep sheik in shield, that is what you want: to elicit your opponent to react. If you want to practice shield pressuring at home, then just put starman on and try to shield-pressure your computer opponent after letting it receive the starman.

Also, you need to be more fluid (i know people keep telling you this). Just don't forget to keep moving, which ultimately keeps your opponent guessing. If you just stand there and SH laser, then it becomes way too obvious. You can just fake your laser to trip your opponent out by just short-hopping without doing anything in the air.

Specifically for the Sheik match-up, theoretically, you should be dead with one or two grabs from Sheik at top level. Just remember that she has very limited options against your defensive lasers. She can't f-tilt you when you're shooting lasers, so just watch out for dash-attacks (goes under high lasers), and just wait for her reaction. If she goes on top of the platform, then it's a danger sign to get out of there because of her aerial needle platform tricks. And don't get aggravated when you eat a full set of needles. Seriously, you have one of the most fulfilling punishes in the game against sheik (guaranteed 30-80% if you combo correctly), so don't become impatient when you get hit either by needles or melee attacks.

tl;dr just work on tech skills and basic movement some more, then we will give you a more detailed analysis and set of critiques, including combos, laser tricks, platform tricks, specific responses to opponent's moves, and so on.

Thanks Bizzarro, I'll keep working on trying to stay fluid as well as my shield pressure.

How to edgeguard Samus?

Also realtalk I do not know what to do after a grab.

I've been told before that a good Samus won't let you grab the ledge against them.

For a better answer for both those questions and probably most of your questions for now, watch videos and look for people doing what you're asking about.

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

How to edgeguard Samus?

Also realtalk I do not know what to do after a grab.

I don't see much to edge-guarding Samus. Keep lasering her off the stage when she's away from her grapple range in order to keep her under stage level, or as low as possible. If they stay on the level of the stage, then it's obvious that the samus will grapple onto the ledge. Right after Samus grapples the ledge, just grab the ledge, which prevents them from quickly grappling onto the ledge and instead automatically jump above the ledge. When this happens, just double-jump d-air spike after dropping the ledge.

After a grab, just gain stage positioning by forward or back throw depending on position. Or, if you feel like the opponent will not react with DI properly, then just up throw into b-air. Falco's grab game is usually for gaining damage, stage position, and throwing your opponent's game off while gaining confidence.

 

[Oskurito]

How to edgeguard Samus?

Also realtalk I do not know what to do after a grab.

Let samus do her stuff lol, you can try to intercept her with a dair if she's below the stage, but it is risky because she might dodge into grapple and grab the ledge before you can recover and edgeguard you. Samus can also throw a missile to keep you from grabing the ledge.

If she goes high in the air just harras her with lasers to rack up some % Also is she's not very high in the air the lasers will force her to go down and below before she can make it to the ledge, this will set up a better position for you to dair her.

Pick a level that screws her recovery like battlefield, lol.

After grab? forward throw set ups nicely for tech chases (not a very low % though). A similar thing happens with down throw, but is so easy to tech and hard to follow that is rarely used. The back throw can be used to set up and edgeguard, you can also do ridiculous chain grabs against fast fallers, specially fox for the unaware (they're very punishable though).

up throw can be followed by an aerial on floaties (usually dair or fair) and on fast fallers it can lead to combos, if they DI the up throw away from you, you can follow with dair shine or nair shine or just finish them of with dair or fwd/down smash if they're close to the ledge.

 

[Naughty Pixel]

I figured both would work well because even if it isn't the strong hitbox of uair it should lead to a shine and fair could be used at higher percents to push offstage and force a reaction

UAir comes out a bit later than NAir and DAir, not sure about FAir though so the pressure isnt quite as tight. It might be an okay mixup though?

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Adding to my post, when Samus is below the stage, you don't necessarily have to commit to anything whatsoever. Just wait to see what she does.

If her animation switches from human to ball form, then go ahead and dair, and if she is not in ball form whatsoever, then just wait it out on the ledge because she can only grapple at a certain point. The point is not to have a commitment to d-air just because she is below the stage.

 

[mas_torque]

UAir comes out a bit later than NAir and DAir, not sure about FAir though so the pressure isnt quite as tight. It might be an okay mixup though?

I've started to see high level spacies players successfully use fair pressure. I'm sure if you spaced it right, you could get lots of shield pokes since the first hit is high and the second is super low by the time you've fallen.

 

[BIGJOHNSONxPWNS]

Can someone critique my Falco a bit? Maybe list some good and bad things that I'm doing? I'm the green Falco. Hopefully I can get some tips from PPMD himself as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuozyaFeu18