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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

Rocketpowerchill

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Messages
568
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Jarretsville md
yo goin off of shield drops and stuff from earlier
i was thinking that why dont people start adapting to shield drop every lazer and arial cuz with falco its not pushing the tech skill limits of our players
each drop is ******** quick and you can follow up with a lazer or waveland, arial, or whatever
i think learning to shield drop every thing would make every falco faster and giv them more access to ****
so im trying to slowly incorporate shield drops into my game and eventually i want to shield drop everything
its possible, we believe 2013 g$ vs hax
 

whitemountain123

Smash Cadet
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Nov 4, 2010
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dreaming (lucid, hopefully)
Hey PP/errybody, I saw you post this in the Marth thread:

Does it have to be me LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm2LKbO5evot=2m43s

Okay so the decision to DD shield/Bair.....not a common one in the Falco ditto and yet I responded to Mango coming out of the corner with DD instead of laser which is definitely considered sub-optimal in the matchup.
What situations would you say it is optimal to DD instead of laser in the falco ditto? The only ones I can think of are if they're shielding in front of you, or maybe you're waiting for a good time to come down from a platform.

Also, thoughts on the following?

All of this talk about DD-ing reminds me about some stuff that Mango and Cactuar were talking about on MIOM a few weeks ago (you can find most of the discussion around here: http://youtu.be/hCZ2QK3ot2c?t=1h23m40s). The differences between offensive and defensive DD-ing, dashing towards and away, etc. I can more easily conceptualize these differences with a character like fox or marth, but it's hard for me to see how to get this sort of mileage out of falco's DD.

Given falco's short DD, I've been thinking about two main ways for optimizing his DD. The first is integrating wds (and even empty sh->waveland) more often, but I often feel that I don't have quite the same control/speed to act as with dashing (is this just a matter of getting more character control or is there actually something to this?). The other is SHL's and using that as sort of an aerial DD, jumping in and out of ranges with lasers (and sometimes empty hops) and just more generally mixing up laser spacings, number of lasers before approaching, etc.

Obviously this is a somewhat basic start to understanding his movement mixups (I'm not even really considering vertical movement for instance), but I feel like I don't really understand this at a fundamental level.

Thoughts? Discuss?
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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DD instead of laser if you have advantage or you want to bait an approach/laser from the other Falco. Those are the main 2 that come to mind. Perhaps tech chasing as well.

And that other post I don't have time to respond to right now but you have the right idea. Falco cannot dash as far therefore his DD has less mixups. This does not make it useless but you cannot use DD to solve everything(which is fine, because lasers and other good moves and FH help with that.)

Shine does help some of that issue though since being able to dash somewhere and get out a decent-sized invincible move is nice lol.
 

Rocketpowerchill

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Messages
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Jarretsville md
hey guys my overall movement is giving me bad spacing in moments against shieks and marths, i need help getting open options against people who opt for their garuanteed chaingrab and techchase
i know pp that in your matches you space rediculously well with lazers, get in -> combo to death and then avoid like crazy
any tips for better movement/spacing
im just asking for a better way of cruising around the stage, i want the matches i play showing dominance in my favor so i guess i want help with refining my wd and dd and dash
i see much more clean wds and movement from all the top falcos and I just want a clean movement that will be the base of all the things I can branch off of so any tips i guess?
 

unknown522

Some guy
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Aug 17, 2005
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Toronto, Ontario
Let me teach you one little thing, you do not go into tournaments without preparations. At the end of the day, no matter what excuses you come up with, you still lost. It's on you to figure out why you lost and then the next time you won't do that same mistake. It's like if you went outside in the cold before a tourney set and then you blame it on cold hands.. it's your fault. lol.
I dunno man. The owners of our venue legitimately won't invest in a heater, and it was terribly cold this winter even inside the place. Even to the point where some people didn't come out becaue of the lack of a heater. They're gonna buy one for next year though
 

BTmoney

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hey guys my overall movement is giving me bad spacing in moments against shieks and marths, i need help getting open options against people who opt for their garuanteed chaingrab and techchase
i know pp that in your matches you space rediculously well with lazers, get in -> combo to death and then avoid like crazy
any tips for better movement/spacing
im just asking for a better way of cruising around the stage, i want the matches i play showing dominance in my favor so i guess i want help with refining my wd and dd and dash
i see much more clean wds and movement from all the top falcos and I just want a clean movement that will be the base of all the things I can branch off of so any tips i guess?
Single out some of times you get grabbed or lose from neutral then we can help you from there. I want some of my training partners to do this with me. Since they are both better players (hanky panky and abu) I want to play a few matches with them where punishments are not carried out. Every single engagement will be from neutral and I will be able to see what is going on better.

This is just a poorly worded example but something like:
Game starts
I am Falco, Abu is Falco
Any conversion other than a single laser (or multiple I guess) counts as a win in neutral (as in I get grabbed, I get fsmashed, shined, dair'd, nair'd etc.)
That counts as a loss for me then Abu does not carry out his punishment or continue the combo. I stop and think about what happened then I try to internalize the situation and why I lost the engagement. Both players then reset neutral.
Repeat for however long or for an entire match.

I think that is a good way to develop spacing and things that work in neutral. DD around each other, block appropriately, try to get set ups from lasers, try to avoid attacks without getting punished, move around the stage etc.
This will lead to realizations like, hypothetically, I cannot FH at X character on this stage in this situation because they can abuse Falco's lack of horizontal aerial mobility and they can take away my options and I tangibly lose neutral more often when I do that. Or I should DD at this range. Or by placing an aerial here and lasering here I can corner this character and cover most of their escape options (roll in towards stage, jump, shield etc.) and proceed to convert from neutral to punishment/combo.

This way I can focus on how to not combo'd in the first place by the opposing falco (instead of having to worry about my DI, OoS game, techs etc. in a normal match which can take away from the speed of development at early stages. I equate this to trying to learn how to multishine mid match, that is not the best way to learn it nor is it the best way to learn how to space. I try to beat spacing into my head and focus on it more than anything when I play a person better than me.) and I can just repeatedly focus on spacing, movement, and the neutral game. If I can repeatedly win neutral against whoever I am playing then I should beat said person (assuming practical tech skill isn't an issue and I don't drop combos too often). Spacing is more important than combo'ing hard in my opinion so next time I get a good 1 on 1 session I'll ask my friend to do this with me.

I could do the same things with my Falco vs a Falcon.
The goal would be to laser him to reduce his movement options while avoiding his attacks while going for a grab or combo starter. If I land a grab or a shine/dair etc. then I would count that as a victory and we would reset neutral and go again.


I believe Bones0 said to always focus on something while playing (if you focus on your DI and improved it throughout the day, you became a better player) and Umbreon said something along the lines of playing to learn instead of playing to win.

Thoughts?
 

Divinokage

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I dunno man. The owners of our venue legitimately won't invest in a heater, and it was terribly cold this winter even inside the place. Even to the point where some people didn't come out becaue of the lack of a heater. They're gonna buy one for next year though
Get a better venue? lol.

My point was just that tournament play is a skill outside of being good at the game.
 

oukd

Smash Lord
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wear 2 coats imo


on a side note im pretty confident that my tech isn't affected by cold hands
 

Rocketpowerchill

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I think that is a good way to develop spacing and things that work in neutral. DD around each other, block appropriately, try to get set ups from lasers, try to avoid attacks without getting punished, move around the stage etc.
This will lead to realizations like, hypothetically, I cannot FH at X character on this stage in this situation because they can abuse Falco's lack of horizontal aerial mobility and they can take away my options and I tangibly lose neutral more often when I do that. Or I should DD at this range. Or by placing an aerial here and lasering here I can corner this character and cover most of their escape options (roll in towards stage, jump, shield etc.) and proceed to convert from neutral to punishment/combo.
that is a cool way to train, isolate each approach/spacing, thats a great way to see what you did wrong, i need a players(s) better than me so they can show me the right way to move,space, and back out.

i need rediculous help with di, i learned the wrong way to play when i first got into smash. I wanted to do these little arial shines double shines and **** but I really need help with the smarts and the winning aspects of smash that seperate men from *******.

and i am still so rusty on knowledge of all types of di, that i feel cant be fixed unless someone is physically helping me. But I do think its possible i could improve my di. The problem with me learning di is because its hard for me to see the little smash dis and auto smash dis
honestly, i have no clue how to perform, and when the necessary di
obviously i learned survival di but thats because thats basic and still im displaying poor habbits like fairing after getting hit and then me SDing

so we all know what stage i am in this game mentally, i feel like once i get these movements and smarts down, my game will be boosted

and me having the lack of legit smashers training me, idk man, im still young in this community and i have heart and after seeing apex for 3 years i wanna go out and bring like $100 and mm as many great people as I can. I plan on losing all matches of all sets. I will do my best to play solid but I will be going to tourneys for the sole purpose of getting better. And hopefully I goto a good smash school with kids in my dorm who are the next generation of smashers. Ima keep on practicing tech like shine oos, shine landing, wb pressure, I am ****ing pumped to get to a level where I can take stocks off decent people. The only way to get good at melee is to play people who are better than you. Real talk
 

BTmoney

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that is a cool way to train, isolate each approach/spacing, thats a great way to see what you did wrong, i need a players(s) better than me so they can show me the right way to move,space, and back out.

i need rediculous help with di, i learned the wrong way to play when i first got into smash. I wanted to do these little arial shines double shines and **** but I really need help with the smarts and the winning aspects of smash that seperate men from ****ies.

and i am still so rusty on knowledge of all types of di, that i feel cant be fixed unless someone is physically helping me. But I do think its possible i could improve my di. The problem with me learning di is because its hard for me to see the little smash dis and auto smash dis
honestly, i have no clue how to perform, and when the necessary di
obviously i learned survival di but thats because thats basic and still im displaying poor habbits like fairing after getting hit and then me SDing

so we all know what stage i am in this game mentally, i feel like once i get these movements and smarts down, my game will be boosted

and me having the lack of legit smashers training me, idk man, im still young in this community and i have heart and after seeing apex for 3 years i wanna go out and bring like $100 and mm as many great people as I can. I plan on losing all matches of all sets. I will do my best to play solid but I will be going to tourneys for the sole purpose of getting better. And hopefully I goto a good smash school with kids in my dorm who are the next generation of smashers. Ima keep on practicing tech like shine oos, shine landing, wb pressure, I am ****ing pumped to get to a level where I can take stocks off decent people. The only way to get good at melee is to play people who are better than you. Real talk

If you wanna try to improve your surival DI then beat it into your head to DI everything at 45 degrees upward. We all learned it wrong when we first started playing casually and DI'd everything in towards the stage (you get hit to the right, so you DI in to the left instead of DI'ing in-between parallel and perpendicular to your trajectory [that's a general rule of thumb, so if you get hit straight to the right, you want to DI partially in to the left and partialy straight up, this would be 45 degrees inwards.])

Once you get out of the 2001 DI habit then you can move onto getting better angles. If that is too specific then start DI'ing things higher in general.
That's how I improved my survival DI. Combo DI is on the case to case but holding away/down is usually good enough.

I'm pretty acquainted with ASDI and SDI now if you have any questions.
I'd say it is best to learn survival DI->combo DI->ASDI->SDI in that order
 

unknown522

Some guy
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Get a better venue? lol.

My point was just that tournament play is a skill outside of being good at the game.
outside of that, it's a good venue. They provide a lot of TVs. It's cheap, and the provide a few setups. It really is hard to find a good + cost effective venue

wear 2 coats imo


on a side note im pretty confident that my tech isn't affected by cold hands
who would wear2coats main?
 

oukd

Smash Lord
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Apr 21, 2010
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gotta get that warmth advantage
if everyone else was playing with cold hands id do it


alternatively find a sink with warm water
or bring a heater lmao
 

Rocketpowerchill

Smash Ace
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Messages
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Jarretsville md
yo i got out of the old di habit a whlie ago when i watched a noobs guide to di
and my survival di is still sub par, how do i add the cstick when surviving besides directing it towards the stage, do I mash it towards the stage
will that give me a little boost each time? and how do I prevent dying when trying to survival di when it comes to accidently fairing or dairing off the stage

and could you guys give me the most basic how to ASDI and SDI
when and when not to use cstick, when to use cstick only, the whole lesson on di
thanks alot, my mind is beating the **** out of me and im trying to counterpick low selfesteem with "Im gonna **** this **** up, mango mentality
 

Rocketpowerchill

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Jarretsville md
i have read dorakis guide so many times
ill try reading it again now that im not ******** :)
ill ask you about di stuff as im still a piece of **** at di

so can you clarify
asdi=cstick di
smashdi=just control stick?
when survival di'ing do you mash the cstick towards the stage once angled perpendicular with the control stick?
these are some things I havent learned due to me never learning it and please hellllpp me be viable!!!!
thanks and ill continue to talk with some local people that are pretty intelligent on the subject and other smarts in smash :)
 

Ziodyne

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survival di'ing can be done with just the control stick
dunno if asdi'ing in a different direction with the cstick will really help that much

quarter-circle di is pretty good. move the control stick in a quartercircle fashion around the general direction you want to survival DI. each different direction you hit along the way counts as a smash DI input, so it covers smash DI and survival DI at the same time
 

Rocketpowerchill

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That will make you just SDI towards the blast zone. Not sure why you wanna do that lol.

@rocket yo I'll pm you all my thoughts and what I know for sure about DI later along with my experience in improving it
survival di'ing can be done with just the control stick
dunno if asdi'ing in a different direction with the cstick will really help that much

quarter-circle di is pretty good. move the control stick in a quartercircle fashion around the general direction you want to survival DI. each different direction you hit along the way counts as a smash DI input, so it covers smash DI and survival DI at the same time
yo so could someone explain what I should be using and how I should do these di inputs
i just never learned but yea were getting there almost
and yea pm me please thankyou guys
 

EpixAura

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Nov 19, 2010
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Could someone give me some help with ledge hop double laser? I always fire the first laser, and it flies way over the opponents head. I think I'm jumping too early and lasering too late, but it's hard to imagine lasering any faster.
Is there something I'm missing? I can't get the timing right at all.
 

Xyzz

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If you shoot over them you're definitely jumping too early. You can actually drop so low that your double jump will barely take you over stage height and still get out two lasers (if you're interested try this at low speed in practice mode).
If you can't do it at full speed you need to find a way to shoot earlier after jumping. I personally do the double jump for lhdl with the control stick, because doing it with x / y is super annoying to me.
 
G

genkaku

Guest
I found it helpful to shine after dropping from ledge at first, so that I could visually mark how low I was.
Not a great habit to keep, though.
 

Rocketpowerchill

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yea its pretty crucial mixing up those recoveries and rises from the ledge.
i try for the height where both lazers will hit or go really low and single lazer
also is double jumping from the ledge and wavelanding on the platforms a bad option?
 

oukd

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its a viable ledge recovery, so keep it in mind

@epixaura if youre having trouble with lhdl height just practice ledgerelease > doublejump until you can come back from a really low point
i personally suggest using the control stick for the movement. down>up>release>bb. up>release>bb needs to be quick, but make sure you mentally confirm you released the control stick before hitting b so as to avoid firebirding
if you want to use x/y though that works too, make sure you can hit b fast enough afterwards
 

AvengerAngel

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U4UQlYZyYM

Can anyone give me some advice, please? :D
I almost never get to record videos, especially against good spacies, so I'd love if I could receive some feedback on this <3
I know I should probably be more consistent technically and I shouldn't mess up combos/edge guards. Also I suck at dealing with Falco's shield pressure and lazors (everytime I get hit by a lazor I literally get stuck for seconds on the ground and I get abused by my opponent lol).
And I suck at tech chasing, so if anyone could give me some tips on that it would be nice. Perhaps it's just because I always try to cover as many options as possible but Falco isn't as fast as Fox. I should just try to read the tech and commit to that (unless it's on a platform).

Also I noticed I have troubles dealing with platform-camping Sheiks and Foxes. When Fox is camping the top platform I can't punish him whenever he gets down and I usually get hit by his nonsensical moves and then proceed to get *****. Also everytime I get hit by a shine and miss I tech my stock is pretty much gone. Any tips? I should try to crouch cancel more at low %s. I suck at that D:
And when Sheik is camping on a side platform her Fair/Bair/needles mix-ups are really annoying. Is run up > shield any good or does that give her the occasion to set up shield pressure and proceed to grab/combo me? :x
Last but not least I noticed I can force people to spam rolls/spot dodges when I'm abusing lazors and DD'ing just outside their range, but I apparently suck at reacting to them and punish them lol. Is that just a matter of reaction time or should I try to read that with anticipation and space accordingly, so I can punish that (but giving up the pressure if they just WD away or something)?

Thanks <33
 

Dr Peepee

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advice on vid:

-I don't think you know what you're looking for when you get a laser hit or the opponent shields. I suggest learning when people like to move OOS and punish that or at least gain good stage position and try to hold it during that time.

-Uair platform tech chasing is kinda bad after like 55ish imo just shine or Dair/Bair mixup sometimes unless you're POSITIVE you can get the Uair because it's harder to connect with

-move and laser more. like, dash and laser, WD and laser, forward and RSHL, etc. gives you more control over your character and allows you to space while pressuring

-oh yeah, and Uair tech chase is bad until like 38ush percent lol

-work on shine OOS timing so you don't get wrecked for shielding so much. you seem uncomfortable in your shield and put it up a little more than you should probly


I dunno that's a lot of stuff right there so I'll let it go.

Platforms: deal with by sometimes Utilt'ing, sometimes FH'ing, and sometimes waiting for them to come down and shooting them when they do come down. random double laser mixups are fun too. I either do that or jump shine waveland people if they stay in one place too long because screw them lol.



figure out when you get that stuff you wanna punish and then set up your lasers/movement to see if it happens and pursue it. like, dash forward if you think someone is gonna roll away from you after you do some lasers or whatever but if they don't it's okay you just dashed forward. that sort of thing.
 

AvengerAngel

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Thanks for the advice :D

-I don't think you know what you're looking for when you get a laser hit or the opponent shields. I suggest learning when people like to move OOS and punish that or at least gain good stage position and try to hold it during that time
Do you think you could give me a couple examples with timestamps for this? I know what you mean, but this is a HUGE part of Falco's game and that's what separates top Falcos from good/bad Falcos and perhaps an example could be helpful with this.


-Uair platform tech chasing is kinda bad after like 55ish imo just shine or Dair/Bair mixup sometimes unless you're POSITIVE you can get the Uair because it's harder to connect with

-oh yeah, and Uair tech chase is bad until like 38ush percent lol
Lol yeah, I've been experimenting with Uair techchases to see when they could be useful. If you're sure you can get the Uair isn't it better than Bair anyway? Unless you're not totally sure about the Uair and Bair could hit them offstage, of course. And by Dair I suppose you mean DJ/FJ over them and then FF Dair. I suck at doing that and I often get punished with get up attacks or tech in place > shine lol that's why I don't do that very often x)


-work on shine OOS timing so you don't get wrecked for shielding so much. you seem uncomfortable in your shield and put it up a little more than you should probly
This is sooooo true. I'm working on my shield game but whenever I get hit by a lazor my instict tells me to put up the shield and I usually get ***** for that lol
 

Dr Peepee

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Uhhhh I only watched like the first 1:30-3 minutes of the first game so it's anytime you laser and he just gets away after holding shield lol. I think it happens within the first 30 seconds(would timestamp but about to go.)

I agree with your Uair vs Bair analysis but think shine is better then both typically lol. And Dair you can rise with sometimes since people don't tech. Try it imo.
 

Bones0

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hey how do i properly mash out of pummeling
i am rotating control stick and sliding from b->a->x and back but im not sure im doing it right
There's no real proper way. You just need to enter as many inputs as possible. I press A, X, and Y with my thumb, L, R, and Z with my trigger fingers, and then rotate the control stick.
 

ElloEddy

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can there be a how not to get gimped / grabbed by shiek and marth ....i honestly hate those 2 characters as spacies ..since you can out play them all the time and have to be super error-less..and they get so much off simple stuff and your mistakes ..plus the fact there honestly the best at edgeguarding falco ..and fox
 

Rocketpowerchill

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wait so bones you have three mash inputs going on: control stick+ triggers + buttons damn I didnt know that you could mash l r and z
and yea this is so useful for breaking shiek and marths

and yea we need to here some anti gimp talk cuz i hate shiek and marth gay **** by the ledge
 

Bones0

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I increasingly feel like every matchup is like that for Falco. :/

As far as not getting gimped, I would just focus on these few things:

1. Directional Influence
Make sure you are always consciously DIing and not just going with what you always do. This means being aware of what throws they might use, how far you are from the ledge and plats, and what percent you're at. You almost always want to DI so that you slide off and grab the ledge whenever possible. This is especially important vs. Marth's dthrow. You should even be doing stuff like DIing and techrolling in the first time a Marth dthrows you so that when they inevitably regrab you, you will be spaced to DI the next dthrow onto the ledge.

2. Shine Stalling
First realize that you shouldn't always shine stall. Sometimes you need to choose your action immediately because if you always shine stall, then all you're doing is giving your opponent more time to get into position for when they react to your DJ. Shine stalling works because it messes with their natural timing, which can, for example, cause a Marth to dtilt prematurely, at which point you can DJ and dair right into him (I do this all the time, it's so good lol). Again, just be careful about shine stalling when you didn't necessarily need to because getting hit by a laser or needle and royally screw you over.

3. Double Jump
Your two main options are DJ forward onto the stage/towards the ledge, and DJ back to avoid attacks the opponent may run/jump off with (and needles). Then of course there's a whole bunch of smaller adjustments in between, but I usually find myself sticking to one or the other. Going anywhere in between usually just means you'll be covered by more of their options. The timing of your DJ is also really important. You don't want to jump really early and get your jump sniped by something, but going too low makes it so they can just cover the ledge Phantasm and react to your up-B. One particular thing people seem to overlook is that DJing even slightly higher than the ledge gives you MUCH more flexibility with your Phantasm timing. If the very peak of my jump is just barely high enough to reach the ledge with, then they know exactly when I will Phantasm. If I go slightly above (even so little that Falco's whole body isn't above the ledge), then suddenly the opponent has to cover a bunch of different timings. I could side-B to the ledge as I rise, I could side-B as late as possible as I fall, or I could side-B at any timing in between those two (which can be quite a large window when you are talking about the opponent covering the Phantasm with a Marth dtilt or Sheik needle). Another thing to keep track of for higher side-Bs is what attacks your opponent will use to cover it. Marth's almost always default to jab when you're high and dtilt when you're low. This means if you get the opportunity to DJ just barely above their jab range and side-B, you will probably catch them off guard. I could write a freakin' essay about DJing as you're getting gimped, so I'll just say you need to experiment with a lot of combinations. Overall though, just focus on not getting hit out of your DJ because it's almost always curtains at that point.

4. Phantasm vs. Firebird
Phantasm is obviously better most of the time because of its speed, but Firebird is often underestimated when you consider its flexibility in which direction you want to go. Quite recently, I have found decent success by just up-Bing any time my opponent isn't close enough to react and jump out and hit me during startup. At the same time, however, brute forcing your way back on the stage with Phantasms can be surprisingly effective as long as you keep in mind the tips I talked about above as far as DJing so that you can mix up your timings. SDIing off-stage moves upwards is also crucial to being able to side-B to the ledge where most Falco players would be forced to up-B. Mango does this constantly. Knowing when you can get a hit off with a recovery move is also really important to note as you go off stage. Much like with DJing, there's just a lot of scenarios that are dependent on the opponent's character, your percent, and all of the steps before this one.

5. Don't Get Regimped
Making it back onto the ledge or stage from a gimp attempt is all well and good, but it's pointless if you just get thrown/hit right back off into a similar situation. Always make sure you're minimizing your damage as much as possible by ledge cancelling Phantasms, Firebirding to the ledge instead of the stage when possible, ledgedashing with invincibility as soon as you touch it, and not doing predictable rolls or spot dodges if you end up holding shield by the ledge. Worst case scenario, make sure you are ground teching or SDIing their attacks to knock you back off so that you have more time and distance limitations to work with for your next recovery attempt. Sometimes, it's okay to up-B/side-B onto the stage if you know that once they hit you back off you'll be able to Phantasm to the ledge before they get over there. There's a lot of similar things like that.

6. Figure Out What Went Wrong
Since so much of learning in Melee is about trial and error, being able to properly determine when and how something works is very important. First, realize that recovering is inevitably not always going to be in your control. Sometimes, even with a bunch of good, subtle fakeouts and the perfect spacing of your actions, you may still get gimped and die. This is just the nature of Falco's awful recovery, and Melee in general. After all, if we could master recoveries to the point that we always got back, we wouldn't be so worried about getting grabbed by the ledge in the first place. My point is that just because your course of action didn't work doesn't mean it wasn't the best decision. When you are relying on the opponent to mess up a timing or spacing in order for you to get back, you may only get back 3/10 times with the same exact technique. If every other approach yields less than 3 successes per 10 attempts, however, you obviously shouldn't stop doing it. I'm also not suggesting finding one thing that works and sticking with that though. Being unpredictable is Falco's greatest chance of recovering, so instead of thinking about whether you did your recovery right, also consider that perhaps your opponent just expected it. Figure out why they are expecting certain recovery tactics and which ones they aren't expecting, then execute those. Maybe they can tell you will DJ back if you DIed away or DJ forward if you DIed in. From there you'd have to figure out how to alter it. Maybe all you need to add is a shine stall, but it also might not hurt to occasionally DI in and still DJ backwards. This cycle will never really end because you'll always have to adjust your decisions to your opponent and what recent decisions you've made that they've adapted to.
 

Purpletuce

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
1,316
Location
Corvallis, OR
Being gimped sucks, but as falco you make up for it by having a grotesque advantage in neutral against pretty much everyone, as well as a ton of crutches (wake up shine from tech chases, shining shields etc.) Simply put, you tend to get punished harder and are more vulnerable on defense, but your offense makes it so you get more opportunities than they do.

Also, you're falco. In general if you're outplaying someone, you're winning or messing up. If you're making too many mistakes, play more simply or more slowly.

My posts always look terrible when I post after bones...
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
I consider Falco's neutral game his worst aspect... He's too slow to have a proper defense or capitalize on mistakes offensively. You have to just trap people with elaborate laser coverage and the threat of attacks until they let you hit them.
 

ElloEddy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
323
Location
$led- NYC the beast-coast
I consider Falco's neutral game his worst aspect... He's too slow to have a proper defense or capitalize on mistakes offensively. You have to just trap people with elaborate laser coverage and the threat of attacks until they let you hit them.
thank you lol..falco is so straight forward and almost totally defenseless ..without lasers he drops down like 2-spots on tier i still think marth and shiek are better ..since peach, samus, doesn't **** them up as bad ..and as the meta game evolves ..with ppl being able to power-shield like 50-70% of the time , we will see the fall/demise of falco .
 

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
1,806
Location
Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
Lasers is why he can deal with Marth. Marth would tap him sooooo hard without them lol.
And I'm pretty sure the game will die before Falco goes anywhere.

I don't think either character is better than Falco either. I felt that way until I mained Falco and got serious about this game.

I also think he's clearly inferior to Fox.
 

Rocketpowerchill

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Messages
568
Location
Jarretsville md
all you can do with falco is space, combo hard and punish and hope you dont get grabbed and hit


falco sucks imo
but i only wanna play spacies cuz marth and shiek and peach and puff are gay and noone else can be good
except hax
 

ElloEddy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
323
Location
$led- NYC the beast-coast
Lasers is why he can deal with Marth. Marth would tap him sooooo hard without them lol.
And I'm pretty sure the game will die before Falco goes anywhere.

I don't think either character is better than Falco either. I felt that way until I mained Falco and got serious about this game.

I also think he's clearly inferior to Fox.
this game got 2-3 great years left maybe more..unless smash 4 is absolutely amazing
 
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