Powershielding, DI, SHFFLing, etc.

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

0_o...

Ouch. Just ouch.

And well written too.

Aw crap, I just realized I'm probably going to get flamed with you. All well, C'est la vie...

 

[Endless Nightmares]

You're such a hypocrite,it's not even funny.

Despite your current arguments on advanced techniques,anyone can say that they were intentional,but the fact of that matter is,they are.

Common techniques such as shuffl only derive from common used techniques such as Short Hop,Fast Fall,etc.

Techniques such as the WaveDash are physics exploits rather than a glitch.Since it varies based on your characters traction,you can easilty see that it is an intentional physics exploit,we just deceided to implement it in to our gameplay.

I can't understand why people complain about the game being difficult to play when they don't even attempt to practice a technique.Are noobs so selfish that we cannot have our own way to play? Why not have the options to cooperate and respect the way we play?

The answer is easy,you are an envious person.You can't live with another person having satisfaction because you don't think that you are strong enough to live with another persons ideals,rather you want yours to be known,but put no of the afromentioned effort.

Here is a quote from one of my post:

"No one can live knowing another posses personal satisfaction.By taking it away,you believe that your opinion becomes more important,but you only show that you do not have the strength or knowledge to spread your opinions to others.By limiting your options,you only show weakness and confine to your limitations.By taking away another persons ability to choose,you take away the essential thing that makes an opinion come to reality,the consumer.

Those who cannot appreciate anothers satisfaction can only posses envy."

Basically what i'm saying is you're weak.You think that just because you cannot play on such a high level,other must dwel with you,lacking satisfaction.
You have to way you play,and we have the way we play,so leave us alone and play the game your way.

Us as a community have faced a bunch of BS'ing people like you forcing their opinions on us,and all of them have then been declined.I suggest you quit wasting your time on us,because WE DON'T care about your opinions,and despite how intelligent your presentation is,you're just a scrub.

GG noob.

You win the Internet. *bows* Absolutely *****. You expresses what many of us know but were unable to arrange into such amazing words.

I can play this game at a high level. I cannot wavedash proficiently, but...

*stops reading*

Part of playing Smash at a high (advanced) level is the ability to use all of the advanced techniques. Well not ALL, but...whatever. You don't have to wavedash, but if you want to play at an advanced level, you should know how to wavedash, and be able to use it proficiently.

And you've only met one person who can beat you consistently? Trust me, you don't play this game at a high level. But it's not completely your fault, you obviously don't play with anyone who's actually good at the game.

 

[maxpower1227]

You're just showing more of your elitism. I never said I was a top tier player. I'm clearly not. But if you and other top tier players want to divide players in a binary fashion into "ultra awesome Smash gods" and "n00bs/scrubs", then I'd probably fall into the lower category. I'm not good enough to win at tournaments, but I'm probably one level below that.

To bring up the GH2 analogy again: I'm ranked in the top 0.01% on XBL at that game, but I'm not a top tier player. I see videos of the real experts online who can flawlessly hammer out solos that I can only close my eyes and pray on. There is a VERY clear distinction between their level of play and mine, and they would blow me out of the water in any head to head matchup (ok, maybe that's going a little far, but they would win). So, should I also be deemed a noob at that game who plays at a low level?

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

To bring up the GH2 analogy again: I'm ranked in the top 0.01% on XBL at that game, but I'm not a top tier player. I see videos of the real experts online who can flawlessly hammer out solos that I can only close my eyes and pray on. There is a VERY clear distinction between their level of play and mine, and they would blow me out of the water in any head to head matchup (ok, maybe that's going a little far, but they would win). So, should I also be deemed a noob at that game who plays at a low level?

To the top tier players on this forum, yes you are. You are a total n00b/scrub in their eyes because you cannot perform exactly at their level. Remember what you said, they want to divide everyone in to just two catagories. "Smash Gods" and "n00bs/scrubs"

I would say Peace Out, but....

ARRGGGHHH!!!

 

[Endless Nightmares]

You're just showing more of your elitism. I never said I was a top tier player. I'm clearly not. But if you and other top tier players want to divide players in a binary fashion into "ultra awesome Smash gods" and "n00bs/scrubs", then I'd probably fall into the lower category. I'm not good enough to win at tournaments, but I'm probably one level below that.

To bring up the GH2 analogy again: I'm ranked in the top 0.01% on XBL at that game, but I'm not a top tier player. I see videos of the real experts online who can flawlessly hammer out solos that I can only close my eyes and pray on. There is a VERY clear distinction between their level of play and mine, and they would blow me out of the water in any head to head matchup (ok, maybe that's going a little far, but they would win). So, should I also be deemed a noob at that game who plays at a low level?

What the hell man, it seems like every time a scrub gets owned, or if a million people are telling them they're wrong, they call "OMG ELITIST!" and try to act like the advanced players are out to rule the world.

I take that back. You're not a scrub, you're a troll.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

You're just showing more of your elitism. I never said I was a top tier player. I'm clearly not. But if you and other top tier players want to divide players in a binary fashion into "ultra awesome Smash gods" and "n00bs/scrubs", then I'd probably fall into the lower category. I'm not good enough to win at tournaments, but I'm probably one level below that.

Pfft. You just cant handle which category you fall under. Why not just change your ways if you desire to enter the competitive scene because your complaints are irrational and childish.

 

[maxpower1227]

(I don't desire to enter the competitive scene. I thoroughly enjoy Smash the way I play it now.)

And was I just called "childish" by someone who vows to boycott Brawl if wavedashing does not return?

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Hear hear!

Oh and I've learned my lesson. Don't argue with Dylan...I'm still trying to grow back the patches of hair I ripped from my head in frustration.

The world is NOT black and white folks.

Peace out folks.

 

[trademark0013]

(I don't desire to enter the competitive scene. I thoroughly enjoy Smash the way I play it now.)

And was I just called "childish" by someone who vows to boycott Brawl if wavedashing does not return?

i'm sure he was kidding about that... i hope neway... lol

if u dont want to enter the competative scene then why are u talking about it?
if u enjoy the way u play smash now, wtf? let us enjoi the way we play

 

[trademark0013]

sry for the dbl post, but i feel somethin has to be said

Shouldn't they already be balanced with that in mind though? If they weren't given a projectile, they should be given other traits to offset that (Falcon's speed, for instance, or Bowser's strength, though they kinda screwed him up). The game should not rely on a technique that is hard to learn (and not even mentioned in the instructions) to balance the characters.

i actually went back thru the topic. wtf are u talking about character balance for? there is no character balance in fighting games.. or whatever u call melee..... some characters are going to be better than others and it takes player skill (something i havent seen mentioned at all in this thread from what i've read) to make a character good.

besides, even w/o advanced techs, how is pichu (who i love, dont get me wrong) on par with marth? even tru-to-life "scrubs" wont dare argue in pichus favor


also, no reason to throw personal attacks at maxpower. he has the right, as do the rest of us, to voice his opinion with out being bashed or called a scrub/noob.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

The controls are simple and accessible even with the presence of advanced techniques. There are no ridiculous combos, difficult moves to remember, or anything of that nature found in every other fighter. Instead, there are a couple simple moves that, used wisely, improve your game enough to give you an edge over an opponent, and provide a way for your technical skill to manifest itself. What you seem to be asking for is for there be to no skill in the game, and for it to be perfectly plausible and common for someone to pick up the game and fight on the same level as a player who is either extremely skillful or has put in a lot of time practicing advanced techniques. Smash Bros. has long been an easy game for anyone to play, but an incredibly deep and skillful one, and removing advanced techs from the game makes it a dumbed-down game that doesn't reward the skillful. "boo hoo party game"? Don't invite the guy who won the tournament and refuses to play with items or with four players. Lets face it, most tournament level players don't use the same rules anyway, and aren't likely to be playing scrubs, or at least won't take it seriously enough to force effort into their combos and such when players three and four can interrupt easily.

There's no reason to not have advanced tech in SSBB, and plenty for.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Wow. The level of elitism from this board's advanced players is staggering.

I think you are confusing elitism with 'Competence' and 'Logic'.

I'm just going to address one of your points. I can play this game at a high level. I cannot wavedash proficiently, but as has been pointed out many many many times, that is only a SMALL part of what it takes to play skillfully. I can SHFFL, shine spike, circle jump, dash dance, L-cancel (though not 100% of the time), and do a number of other fairly advanced techniques. I can also skillfully use or defend against most items, deal with stage hazards, etc. Since Smash has been out, I have only met ONE person who can consistently defeat me - a guy who absolutely wiped the floor with me a few years ago as Sheik, prompting me to abandon Link and take up Fox.

Despite that,you really don't know how to play as well as you claim you can.

Playing Smash on a high level doesn't simply rely on technical abuses,but many variables that contribute towards "Intelligent Play".

When you play in a tournament,it's obvious that everyone can do the same thing; L-cancel,Wavedash,Shuffl etc.So it really doesn't come down to who can do what technique the most and win.The only variable that can determin a victory is the person who is playing(And depending on skill level it can vary from character to character).

Learning the technical aspects of the game has now become basic in the community.Learning them doesn't make you good,nor does it make you worse,it just adds you to the variable.

My arguments against certain techniques have NEVER been because "I can't do them". They have been because those techniques, in my opinion, do not fit into the Smash Bros philosophy of offering very simple and accessible controls. On the specific issue of power shielding, my argument was that the technique was more of a way to artificially boost computer AI than to enhance human matches.

Philosophical mechanics in a game that has a very high skill cealing shouldn't limit your abilities.

How do the technical aspects of this game don't fit? Is it because of simplicity reasons? No.There really is no reason.Simplicity is biased depending on the person is doing X activity.One person may be able to play the Piano and find it simple,but the next person may not.Simplicity to me is nothing but your ability to adapt an ability to become second nature.

Simplicity to you could be holding forwards and pressing A to do an attack,but to another person who has expanded his horizons,simplicity could be Short Hopping,Aerial Attack,Fast Fall and L-cancel.The ability to find something 'simple' depends on your ability to memorize a pattern and use it instinctively.

Simplicity=Adaption

Even though a Shuffl may be compicated to others,it's simple because of memorization.Expand your horizons so that you may turn your difficulties into minor problems,your minor problems into simplicity,and simplicity to instinct.

Now, if any of you elite players can accept that and debate these issues without condescension and labelling of people you don't like as "scrubs" (what a lame insult), then by all means, PLEASE do so.

That's how we notify someone with inferior knowledge of a game.You seem to fit the category.

 

[Takeshi245]

I think you are confusing elitism with 'Competence' and 'Logic'.



Despite that,you really don't know how to play as well as you claim you can.

Playing Smash on a high level doesn't simply rely on technical abuses,but many variables that contribute towards "Intelligent Play".

When you play in a tournament,it's obvious that everyone can do the same thing; L-cancel,Wavedash,Shuffl etc.So it really doesn't come down to who can do what technique the most and win.The only variable that can determin a victory is the person who is playing(And depending on skill level it can vary from character to character).

Learning the technical aspects of the game has now become basic in the community.Learning them doesn't make you good,nor does it make you worse,it just adds you to the variable.




Philosophical mechanics in a game that has a very high skill cealing shouldn't limit your abilities.

How do the technical aspects of this game don't fit? Is it because of simplicity reasons? No.There really is no reason.Simplicity is biased depending on the person is doing X activity.One person may be able to play the Piano and find it simple,but the next person may not.Simplicity to me is nothing but your ability to adapt an ability to become second nature.

Simplicity to you could be holding forwards and pressing A to do an attack,but to another person who has expanded his horizons,simplicity could be Short Hopping,Aerial Attack,Fast Fall and L-cancel.The ability to find something 'simple' depends on your ability to memorize a pattern and use it instinctively.

Simplicity=Adaption

Even though a Shuffl may be compicated to others,it's simple because of memorization.Expand your horizons so that you may turn your difficulties into minor problems,your minor problems into simplicity,and simplicity to instinct.



That's how we notify someone with inferior knowledge of a game.You seem to fit the category.

Did it again, Eternal Phoenix Fire. Great job.

 

[maxpower1227]

I think you are confusing elitism with 'Competence' and 'Logic'.

Well I'm certainly not confusing it with 'Spelling' and 'Grammar', so maybe you're right.

Despite that,you really don't know how to play as well as you claim you can.

Playing Smash on a high level doesn't simply rely on technical abuses,but many variables that contribute towards "Intelligent Play".

When you play in a tournament,it's obvious that everyone can do the same thing; L-cancel,Wavedash,Shuffl etc.So it really doesn't come down to who can do what technique the most and win.The only variable that can determin a victory is the person who is playing(And depending on skill level it can vary from character to character).

Learning the technical aspects of the game has now become basic in the community.Learning them doesn't make you good,nor does it make you worse,it just adds you to the variable.

You don't say? And here I was just claiming to play well because I was merely aware of the existence of these techniques. You're right though, I have NO IDEA how to use them properly.

Simplicity to you could be holding forwards and pressing A to do an attack,but to another person who has expanded his horizons,simplicity could be Short Hopping,Aerial Attack,Fast Fall and L-cancel.The ability to find something 'simple' depends on your ability to memorize a pattern and use it instinctively.

Simplicity=Adaption

Even though a Shuffl may be compicated to others,it's simple because of memorization.Expand your horizons so that you may turn your difficulties into minor problems,your minor problems into simplicity,and simplicity to instinct.

Uh, no. There IS an objective nature to what defines simplicity. Complex techniques can be learned, but they are still complex. I'm not arrogant enough to declare things that *I* personally can do to be "simple", so please try to do the same.

That's how we notify someone with inferior knowledge of a game.You seem to fit the category.

And it's lame and obnoxious. Good job.

 

[slikvik]

Well I'm certainly not confusing it with 'Spelling' and 'Grammar', so maybe you're right.




You don't say? And here I was just claiming to play well because I was merely aware of the existence of these techniques. You're right though, I have NO IDEA how to use them properly.




Uh, no. There IS an objective nature to what defines simplicity. Complex techniques can be learned, but they are still complex. I'm not arrogant enough to declare things that *I* personally can do to be "simple", so please try to do the same.



And it's lame and obnoxious. Good job.

u still here doesnt gamefaqs have a thread you can troll in?

 

[WhiteZER0]

Well I'm certainly not confusing it with 'Spelling' and 'Grammar', so maybe you're right.




You don't say? And here I was just claiming to play well because I was merely aware of the existence of these techniques. You're right though, I have NO IDEA how to use them properly.




Uh, no. There IS an objective nature to what defines simplicity. Complex techniques can be learned, but they are still complex. I'm not arrogant enough to declare things that *I* personally can do to be "simple", so please try to do the same.



And it's lame and obnoxious. Good job.

Aaah... another ANTI- ADV. TECH. Activist... wOOt :D

 

[Dark Sonic]

Once again.

Eternal Phoenix Fire has

TEH PHIR3

 

[maxpower1227]

I think they have antacids for that

 

[Superstar]

Uh, no. There IS an objective nature to what defines simplicity. Complex techniques can be learned, but they are still complex. I'm not arrogant enough to declare things that *I* personally can do to be "simple", so please try to do the same.

You don't seem to understand. What's simple for some is difficult for others, that is what Eternal is saying. Smash is both easy to learn, yet difficult to master, that is the beauty of the game. Eternal is saying that simplicity is "relative" to the person playing. Its another argument.

Why do you have to suggest stuff that ruin the competitive nature of the game? Smash is playable at both a low and high level, so it satisfies both casuals and hardcore. Yet you refuse competitive players to have their side of the fun, when powershielding and other techs doesn't even affect you. When I posted in the Final Smashes thread saying that I prefer them off in my house, you bashed me, as if your way of playing is "absolute", and our way of playing is "inferior". I didn't bash you, but you bashed me. You bashed the way of tournament playing, yet people have said that it could be played both ways [as is the beauty of smash]. If you are smart enough, you can tell me who is the TRUE arrogant one around here.

 

[maxpower1227]

I don't have a problem with people playing competitvely. I have a problem with people who scoff at playing anything but 1v1 matched on FD with no items as worthless playing that only n00bs partake in. I don't bash the tournament scene, only that attitude that seems prevalent among some of its members.

 

[MookieRah]

I don't have a problem with people playing competitvely. I have a problem with people who scoff at playing anything but 1v1 matched on FD with no items as worthless playing that only n00bs partake in. I don't bash the tournament scene, only that attitude that seems prevalent among some of its members.

@maxpower1227
What is your deal man? Honestly, you go around with an elitist attitude of your own, to a site that is predominently competitive and you call us elitists because we just argue against the validity of the points you make. It's so hypocritical that it's annoying. Please, if you want to call us hypocrites then refrain from flaming other people for having a different opinion.

I know there are some people on this site that instantly flame someone for a differing opinion from what is the norm here at smashboards, BUT, not all of us do that, and the best debaters aren't flaming you, we are just argueing with how refuteable your ideas are. Stop generalizing and realize that *maybe* just *maybe* we know what we are talking about.

 

[maxpower1227]

Most of my opinions are based on what I perceive (reasonably so) as the intent of the game's creators regarding its simple controls, accessability, etc. I've provided reasons for why I think what I do, and I get into heated discussions because that's part of my personality. Unless I'm mistaken, I've refrained from namecalling and childish insults, and I really don't see how my opinions are elitist in nature.

@Superstar:

After going back to the thread you mentioned, my comment to you was a bit harsh, and I apologize. I don't think I have a problem with you as much as some others here, but I still don't like the attitude that anything that introduces random chance and chaos (in other words, fun) to this game is useless and should be done away with. People on your side have constantly come back at me with the argument that "we don't advocate removing things that help casual play, so why would you agrue for removing things that help competitive play?", to which I guess I can only say:

dont think [the final smash] should have been added at all. Its an intresting idea for an item but whoo boy coming up for one for EVERY character?

can you say waste of time? I can.

Because when you boil it down the final smash is a very pretty looking attack, that requires no skill to use.

I mean think about how many weeks/months went into all the final smashes and what it could have been spent on.

*shrug*

Meanwhile, if I advocate the removal of something like wavedashing, which is a mere physics exploit that to the admission of people who use it is not really a very integral part of the game, I get accused of wanting to tear down the competitive scene? I just don't understand that.

 

[MookieRah]

I agree that we shouldn't already be discussing the removal of new brawl elements before we have even played the game. Actually I'm a pro final smash person overall. If they did it right it could be a neat addition to the game, but if they did it wrong then it would still be a cool item for casual play.

Not every competitive player backs Dylan's extreme views by any means XD, but I can see how his opinion is so loud that you might be led to believe so. A lot of people are overly worried about Brawl not being able to be a worthy successor, and they tend to speculate on everything that is added very pessimistically.

Trust me, MOST of the actual pros, and a LOT of the smart melee posters don't even post back here in the first place. Not to say their aren't plenty of smart melee posters down here, it's just that you really only see a small portion in this section of the forums.

 

[maxpower1227]

I certainly don't share that pessimism. I have honestly been thrilled with just about every single piece of info concerning Brawl that has been released so far. The new characters, the new stage designs, the new items and gameplay mechanics, everything. It's shaping up to be God's Gift to Gaming in my eyes, and that's not much exagerration. If wavedashing does return, I won't really care that much. I just think it would be ideal if it wasn't there (I could really say the same thing about 3rd party characters being left out... oh well)

 

[Adi]

If wavedashing does return, I won't really care that much. I just think it would be ideal if it wasn't there

Exactly, we have our opinions, you have your own. The purpose of a forum is to put forth one's ideas, for the sole reason of provoking responses from other members of the forum. If you can't stand people disagreeing with you, don't visits forums and don't call us elitists.

 

[maxpower1227]

I didn't call anyone elitist for wanting the advanced techs to return. I called people elitist in response to sentiments such as:

- you are a n00b and cannot play Smash at a high level unless you can perform ALL advanced techs with cold blooded efficiency

- wavedashing is a simple technique that any 5 year old can learn

- FFAs or item use are solely the realm of n00bs/scrubs and have no place in "real" Smash play

etc.

Just so we're clear on why I'm using that word.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

You're definitely misinterpreting what they were trying to say

 

[Superstar]

Wavedashing is an incredibly easy technique to "learn", but a very difficult one to "master".

Anyone can go to Final Destination with Luigi and learn to Wavedash in 10 minutes. However, Wavedashing can only be correctly utilized by a skilled player. Many people, once they learn to wavedash, receive welcome F-Smashes to the face.

Wavedashing is useful in that its versatile. It can be used to wavedash backwards to a ledgegrab, Wavedash forward to a smash, for spacing, to do fakeouts as in the pulse walk, and to dodge attacks. However, that same versatability is probably what makes it difficult to utilize to perfection.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

It just takes practice. This is the video that got me into wavedashing

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TZ_xPnLTYYc

I practiced wavedashing to the music like Dyna did in the video lol.

I can't even explain how I learned to use wavedashing proficiently, it just takes lots of practice. Slowly add it to your game and it will become second nature. Watching pros helps too

 

[Adi]

- you are a n00b and cannot play Smash at a high level unless you can perform ALL advanced techs with cold blooded efficiency

This is true, you are going to get owned in the competitive scene unless SHFFLing and WD along with an array of other advanced techs are second nature to you. This allows you to focus more on your opponent than yourself and is a crucial step in ascending to a higher level of play.

wavedashing is a simple technique that any 5 year old can learn

Well it kind of is. It's 3 different buttons being pushed at almost the same time. If you can't push a couple of buttons simaltenously than you're in bad shape :*(. To test this out I told my 9 year old brother who has never played smash competitively before how to wavedash and he learned how to do it within 7 minutes.

FFAs or item use are solely the realm of n00bs/scrubs and have no place in "real" Smash play

I can understand why you might be angry at someone saying this, but if you look past the noob/scrub part, it is essentially true. Items are only beneficial to the losing player and FFA's involve ganging up and camping to the extreme level. Competitive smash play is about who has the most skill, not who has the most luck. If your definition of real smash play involves hammers galore than be my guest to play with your friends along with the rest of the Gamefaqs community who seem to have a great abbhorrence for advanced techniques.

 

[petre]

So only people who go to tourneys matter?

the people that dont play competitvely/go to tournies probably havent even heard of any of these techniques, so yes, this doesnt really concern them.

No, powershielding was introduced in SSBM. And how does it balance the game? It would seem to seriously nerf players who are more projectile-heavy (Link, Samus, etc) to the benefit of those who don't rely on them so much. It also cheapens the players who already have one of their B moves taken up by a projectile reflector.

it keeps people from picking falco on FD and just running away SHLing the whole time. id say thats adding balance. would you rather have SHLing be an uncounterable technique? (yes, im aware there are other ways around, but if you can powershield pretty decently, it usually gives you the best results)

 

[The Hypnotist]

I wouldn't know. But I'm also not presumptions enough to suggest that the percentage is in fact extremely low.

BULLSPIT

Seriously, you really think, hmm... lets say, just 10%...

You really think more than 10% of the people who can play Smash can powershield. Are you freakin serious?!?! More than half the players don't know what PSing is.

 

[The Hypnotist]

I always wished that all the advanced techs (l-Canceling, PSing, etc.) were in how to play videos you'd have to unlock. I think everyone should at least KNOW what they are. I still feel so bad for the people I'm gong to just own online, I really do.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Well I'm certainly not confusing it with 'Spelling' and 'Grammar', so maybe you're right.

I present myself as I am.I'm not a grammar perfectionist.My intial message still remains clear despite grammatical errors.

You don't say? And here I was just claiming to play well because I was merely aware of the existence of these techniques. You're right though, I have NO IDEA how to use them properly.

Did you even read that? You're sarcasm is blank.I said that technical abuse isn't an instant win.Previous statements proove that you can only play this game on a technical level.


Jesus man...

Uh, no. There IS an objective nature to what defines simplicity. Complex techniques can be learned, but they are still complex. I'm not arrogant enough to declare things that *I* personally can do to be "simple", so please try to do the same.

Why should I boast for simplicity?That doesn't make any sense.

Complex things can be simple depending on the person.Instincts can make any complication easy.To me,Shuffl attacks were very difficult to follow,but now I can use them with ease even though it's a complex pattern.Learning by nature can make any technique in smash simple,believe me.

And it's lame and obnoxious. Good job.

Thank you,noob.

 

[trademark0013]

i have a question for this thread:

why is no one using the arguements related to tournaments of other games? advanced techs arent banned (double shot in halo 2, roll-canceling in CVS2). also torunaments have certain rulesets that must be followed, usually for the better (no itmes in smash, no duels in halo 2)



max, what is the point ur trying to make? this thread is about whether or not smashers think the advanced techs will return, not a "wether or not advanced tech makes the game fair for all".

 

[MookieRah]

- you are a n00b and cannot play Smash at a high level unless you can perform ALL advanced techs with cold blooded efficiency

You misunderstood what the people were saying at the time, and the fact that you worded it this way tells me that I need to restate this. (I forget which thread this was said in, otherwise I would just quote the exact thing that was said..)

The point that was being made was that one doesn't really understand a technique unless he can use is appropriately. Honestly, you may *know* something via knowledge, but until you really learn to use it you don't have the same understanding. There are A LOT of things in smash this applies to, and honestly, most of the people making arguments on these subjects are not qualified to do so. This isn't being elitist, it's just being honest. Unless you really understand the subject that is debating you shouldn't debate it.

A lot of people try to debate things that they don't really have a grasp for, even those defending advanced techniques and wavedashing and all that. Because of this, a lot of false things have been said and A LOT of stuff being debated is based on completely wrong or partially correct assumptions.

 

[THK]

Wow. The level of elitism from this board's advanced players is staggering.

I'm just going to address one of your points. I can play this game at a high level. I cannot wavedash proficiently, but as has been pointed out many many many times, that is only a SMALL part of what it takes to play skillfully. I can SHFFL, shine spike, circle jump, dash dance, L-cancel (though not 100% of the time), and do a number of other fairly advanced techniques. I can also skillfully use or defend against most items, deal with stage hazards, etc. Since Smash has been out, I have only met ONE person who can consistently defeat me - a guy who absolutely wiped the floor with me a few years ago as Sheik, prompting me to abandon Link and take up Fox.

My arguments against certain techniques have NEVER been because "I can't do them". They have been because those techniques, in my opinion, do not fit into the Smash Bros philosophy of offering very simple and accessible controls. On the specific issue of power shielding, my argument was that the technique was more of a way to artificially boost computer AI than to enhance human matches.

Now, if any of you elite players can accept that and debate these issues without condescension and labelling of people you don't like as "scrubs" (what a lame insult), then by all means, PLEASE do so.

There's a reason why Smash is often defined at "Easy to learn, hard to master."

Anyone can play the game. It's simple. Now you can either leave it at simple, or take it to the higher level. From there, you decide to.

1) Keep it simple, nice and casual.

2) Improve yourself so you can take it to the higher level.

3) Complain that there is a higher level.

Honestly if you don't wanna run the gauntlet, keep your mouth shut and don't complain about what is there.

 

[Takeshi245]

There's a reason why Smash is often defined at "Easy to learn, hard to master."

Anyone can play the game. It's simple. Now you can either leave it at simple, or take it to the higher level. From there, you decide to.

1) Keep it simple, nice and casual.

2) Improve yourself so you can take it to the higher level.

3) Complain that there is a higher level.

Honestly if you don't wanna run the gauntlet, keep your mouth shut and don't complain about what is there.

Good point, THK.

 

[_Phloat_]

I don't really like powershielding either. It's something I NEVER see human players do, so it seems like something they just threw in to artificially make the computer players tougher. I'd prefer for them to remove powershielding (a move that also makes no sense) and replace it with vastly improved AI.

I do see human players do it, Fumi does it consistantly to get rid of SHL, which would otherwise cause her a lot of trouble...

Also, AI and Powershielding have nothing to do with one another, you could get both or neither ._.

 

[robyextreme]

I dunno. So far brawl seems like some half ***** noob magnet game with a bunch of cool super strong DBZ looking type moves.